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Backlash buff was too much and needs to be toned down (PvP perspective)
MadeInVN
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The scaling for backlash is way too much right now. It would be fine if backlash was dodgable or blockable, but it isnt at all. The only way for you to mitigate it is by cleansing it entirely which many classes don't have access to, or avoid taking enough damage for it to build up. But good players will just stack a bunch of DoTs on you and use radiant oppression and basically still build up the damage easily even if you run away.
This screenshot shows how much damage I took from purifying light after only taking 15.3k damage (most of them from DoTs). Before anyone tells me to stack more mitigation, yes I already have good mitigation with 26k armor and major evasion. You can see that by looking at his jab damage, which only did 1.4k per tick, and his burning light, which only did 2.7. A squishy build would take 2k jab ticks and 3k+ burning light ticks. Normally that kind of damage can usually be healed through, but the scaling of new backlash means you literally have to run away if someone puts backlash on you, because even the slightest amount of damage will build up for a fat proc.
I think a good solution that does not affect PvE is allowing backlash to be blocked or roll dodged.
EDIT: A lot of people think I didn't play correctly against these templars and it's a l2p issue, so I've included a video of an actual duel against my friend, a top tier magplar on PC NA. If you think you can do better than me, I would like you to duel my friend and show me.
https://youtu.be/5gvWM8PXmGA
Edited by MadeInVN on August 24, 2021 8:05PM This screenshot shows how much damage I took from purifying light after only taking 15.3k damage (most of them from DoTs). Before anyone tells me to stack more mitigation, yes I already have good mitigation with 26k armor and major evasion. You can see that by looking at his jab damage, which only did 1.4k per tick, and his burning light, which only did 2.7. A squishy build would take 2k jab ticks and 3k+ burning light ticks. Normally that kind of damage can usually be healed through, but the scaling of new backlash means you literally have to run away if someone puts backlash on you, because even the slightest amount of damage will build up for a fat proc.
I think a good solution that does not affect PvE is allowing backlash to be blocked or roll dodged.
EDIT: A lot of people think I didn't play correctly against these templars and it's a l2p issue, so I've included a video of an actual duel against my friend, a top tier magplar on PC NA. If you think you can do better than me, I would like you to duel my friend and show me.
https://youtu.be/5gvWM8PXmGA 5
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MadeInVN✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »This will go down well 😂 good luck 👍
lmao I'm already prepared for the "no backlash is fine" comments1 -
DTStormfox✭✭✭✭✭I don't know. ~9k damage from an ability that has to charge for 6 seconds seems fine to me. And it also is very obvious when it will proc the burst, so you can (probably) easily out-heal it at the right moment.25 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭DTStormfox wrote: »I don't know. ~9k damage from an ability that has to charge for 6 seconds seems fine to me. And it also is very obvious when it will proc the burst, so you can (probably) easily out-heal it at the right moment.
That's not the problem. The problem is it's unblockable and undodgable. There is no counterplay to it.3 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For the “outheal 9k” comments: remember your health regeneration is only 600-1k ish now and that 15k rapid regen is only 7k in campaign. So no, it’s not easy to outheal, solo. Fine in a group but again, this reinforces group play in PvP and punishes solo players. Yet again.6 -
Lumsdenml✭✭✭✭✭
✭The scaling for backlash is way too much right now. It would be fine if backlash was dodgable or blockable, but it isnt at all. The only way for you to mitigate it is by cleansing it entirely which many classes don't have access to, or avoid taking enough damage for it to build up. But good players will just stack a bunch of DoTs on you and use radiant oppression and basically still build up the damage easily even if you run away.
This screenshot shows how much damage I took from purifying light after only taking 15.3k damage (most of them from DoTs). Before anyone tells me to stack more mitigation, yes I already have good mitigation with 26k armor and major evasion. You can see that by looking at his jab damage, which only did 1.4k per tick, and his burning light, which only did 2.7. A squishy build would take 2k jab ticks and 3k+ burning light ticks. Normally that kind of damage can usually be healed through, but the scaling of new backlash means you literally have to run away if someone puts backlash on you, because even the slightest amount of damage will build up for a fat proc.
I think a good solution that does not affect PvE is allowing backlash to be blocked or roll dodged.
What kind of Templar was that? All death recaps should be... puncturing sweeps, puncturing sweeps, puncturing sweeps, puncturing sweeps, puncturing sweeps....In game ID: @KnightOfTacoma
Main: Black Knight of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50/CP 2160 Nightblade NA PC - Grand Master Crafter, adventurer and part time ganker. Rank 35 - Palatine Grade 1
PVP Main:Knight of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Rank 29 - Brigadier Grade 1 - Ravenwatch veteran. Blood for the Pact!
Guild: The Disenfranchised - ZZ!Other alts:
Blood Scion of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Nightblade NA PC
Duke of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Dragonknight NA PC
Yama Of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Necromancer NA PC
Count Of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Necromancer NA PC
Seigneur of Tacoma - EP Lvl 28 Arcanist NA PC
Grand Vizier of Tacoma - EP Lvl 19 Arcanist NA PC - Icereach
Baron of Tacoma- EP Lvl 50 Warden NA PC -
Ali'i nui of Tacoma- EP Lvl 17 Sorcerer NA PC -
Angus of Tacoma- EP Lvl 47 Sorcerer NA PC - Former EmperorObituary:
RIP Priest of Tacoma - EP Lvl 22 Dragon Knight NA PC Kyne - Lost in the Garden of Shadows.
RIP.Viscount of Tacoma - EP Lvl 18 Dragon Knight NA PC Kyne - Lost in the war.
RIP. Squire of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Died of Knahaten Flu.
RIP Reaper of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Died of Consumption.
RIP Sovereign of Tacoma - EP Lvl 32 NightBlade NA PC Kyne - Lost at The Battle of Brindle, December 13, 2018.
RIP Dauphin of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC Kyne - Overdosed on Skooma.
RIP Wraith of Tacoma - EP Lvl 10 Dragon Knight NA PC - Eaten by a dragon.
RIP Red Knight of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Died at the Battle of Chalmen, March 18th, 2021.
RIP Maharajah of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Templar NA PC - Lost in a sandstorm.
RIP Vampire Of Tacoma - EP Lvl 50 Sorcerer NA PC - Fell asleep in the sun. RIP16 -
camrenis✭✭DTStormfox wrote: »I don't know. ~9k damage from an ability that has to charge for 6 seconds seems fine to me. And it also is very obvious when it will proc the burst, so you can (probably) easily out-heal it at the right moment.
That's not the problem. The problem is it's unblockable and undodgable. There is no counterplay to it.The only way for you to mitigate it is by cleansing it entirely which many classes don't have access to, or avoid taking enough damage for it to build up.
You countered your own argument. It's like a nightblade now, to counter cloak you have to go out of your way to either run detects (losing some potion functionality), slot a skill that reveals (losing some bar space that might have better use) or run Sentry. Nightblades are my main frustration at the moment, so I build specifically to hurt one class more than the others by actively running detects and occasionally running Sentry, all of which are generally no use against any other class.
For backlash, obviously a potion isn't going to help, running Miats alerts (or whatever addon a lot of people seem to run to roll every single one of my gap closers) isn't going to help either, so you're left with having to slot purge (yes, all classes have access to this) or running something like Curse-Eater to mitigate it. Is it worth slotting purge to counter one class? If your main problem is Templars (similar to my example above for building to see cloakblades), then maybe you should consider it.
And for the sake of being transparent, yes I am a Templar main.11 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Purge is available to all classes, so there is counterplay. I don't have an opinion on the rest, as I don't PVP. Maybe you're correct on there should be more counterplay. I know even the efficient purge is pretty spendy. Just wanted to point out that purge is available to all classes.13 -
tsaescishoeshiner✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Didn't it also get nerfed to be cut in half by Battle Spirit? There were posts about this on the PTS forums, haven't had a chance to check on Live server yet.PC-NA
in-game: @tsaescishoeshiner1 -
Ippokrates✭✭✭✭✭DTStormfox wrote: »I don't know. ~9k damage from an ability that has to charge for 6 seconds seems fine to me. And it also is very obvious when it will proc the burst, so you can (probably) easily out-heal it at the right moment.
That's not the problem. The problem is it's unblockable and undodgable. There is no counterplay to it.
It is. Purge. Every class have access to it. In pvp skill tree. And it is AoE. With radius of 18 m. And it is impossible to do not see this skill over player.4 -
merevie✭✭✭✭✭That explains why D-class templar fight didn't go as expected just now.
In terms of purge, stop and think. 150 regen gain for a negative effect with new star. I'm LOOKING for gank blades when solo so I can get a nice little poison regen proc off them. Those [snip] players who spam [snip] are now our new best friends.
In terms of new Crimson set, Zos, you realised you BUFFED groups with good healers, right? They can min/max even more with that extra regen poison. A necro healer can self proc regen every time they burst heal. Healers be sitting on rams like, orbs? nah, don't need those now...so why don't I just slot the ONE HUNDRED PERCENT uptime for major protection? Oh yeah.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 10:39AM2 -
luen79rwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Purge (the AVA skill) is not functional for solo or BGs in its current form. Everybody knows that.PC/DC/NAserver
V16 sorc - V16 temp - V16 dk - V1 nb - V1 temp - V1 dk7 -
CaffeinatedMayhem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭luen79rwb17_ESO wrote: »Purge (the AVA skill) is not functional for solo or BGs in its current form. Everybody knows that.
Also, have fun blowing people up if you purge with Plaguebreak on you.
Fine in the NoProc campaign, but not for CP. 3 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭
Another screenshot demonstrating my point above about how it's pointless to run away from the templar. In this screenshot I ran away from the templar. He casted crecsent sweep and toppled me twice, one of which I blocked. The 2nd one got me. He literally landed ONE TICK OF PUNCTURING SWEEP. It critted for 12.1k damage. I took a total of 23k damage, over 60% of those were DoTs.
Please tell me how I can heal thru that?7 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭Ippokrates wrote: »DTStormfox wrote: »I don't know. ~9k damage from an ability that has to charge for 6 seconds seems fine to me. And it also is very obvious when it will proc the burst, so you can (probably) easily out-heal it at the right moment.
That's not the problem. The problem is it's unblockable and undodgable. There is no counterplay to it.
It is. Purge. Every class have access to it. In pvp skill tree. And it is AoE. With radius of 18 m. And it is impossible to do not see this skill over player.
I'm sorry but nobody on earth is going to slot a 5k magicka ability that can only cleanse 3 abilities unless they are a dedicated purge bot for an organized group.24 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭For the love of god, stop suggesting "Purge". It costs 5.1k magicka and only cleanses 3 abilities. When you have 5 debuffs on you it costs 10k magicka. Purifying light costs 1.9k magicka. Are you guys seriously telling me to waste 10k mag for someone to reapply it immediately? Please think carefully lmao15
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Amerises✭✭✭✭DTStormfox wrote: »I don't know. ~9k damage from an ability that has to charge for 6 seconds seems fine to me. And it also is very obvious when it will proc the burst, so you can (probably) easily out-heal it at the right moment.
That's not the problem. The problem is it's unblockable and undodgable. There is no counterplay to it.
Uh, it's based on how much damage is done to you, so stop sitting in jabs and dodge roll through the person?9 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭DTStormfox wrote: »I don't know. ~9k damage from an ability that has to charge for 6 seconds seems fine to me. And it also is very obvious when it will proc the burst, so you can (probably) easily out-heal it at the right moment.
That's not the problem. The problem is it's unblockable and undodgable. There is no counterplay to it.
Uh, it's based on how much damage is done to you, so stop sitting in jabs and dodge roll through the person?
Did you actually look at the screenshot or are you just making baseless comments?
1st screenshot he landed 4 jab ticks on me for a total of 5k dmg. 2nd screenshot he landed 1 jab tick on me. Please look at the screenshots please6 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Templars get something comparable to Haunted Curse Blastbones, and Shalks, but still have to work towards the damage. And someone is unhappy that a class that might not have given them a problem before, is suddenly more difficult. Learn to adapt before rushing to the forums on day 1.28 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭Templars get something comparable to Haunted Curse Blastbones, and Shalks, but still have to work towards the damage. And someone is unhappy that a class that might not have given them a problem before, is suddenly more difficult. Learn to adapt before rushing to the forums on day 1.
We have been testing on pts for weeks and relaying this information to the devs. I'm sorry you don't care enough about PvP but I do [snip].
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 10:42AM1 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭Templars get something comparable to Haunted Curse Blastbones, and Shalks, but still have to work towards the damage. And someone is unhappy that a class that might not have given them a problem before, is suddenly more difficult. Learn to adapt before rushing to the forums on day 1.
Please tell me how this is "working towards the damage"????
6 light attacks, 8.6k NON CRIT Purifying Light.
Any defense anyone makes up to this point proves they haven't tested a single thing and are talking out of a lack of information.11 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Templars get something comparable to Haunted Curse Blastbones, and Shalks, but still have to work towards the damage. And someone is unhappy that a class that might not have given them a problem before, is suddenly more difficult. Learn to adapt before rushing to the forums on day 1.
We have been testing on pts for weeks and relaying this information to the devs. I'm sorry you don't care enough about PvP but I do [snip].
I do pvp. I do care. And I've been watching the same discord channels that you've been posting in. Give it some time. [snip]
[edited to remove quote & for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 10:43AM7 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭Templars get something comparable to Haunted Curse Blastbones, and Shalks, but still have to work towards the damage. And someone is unhappy that a class that might not have given them a problem before, is suddenly more difficult. Learn to adapt before rushing to the forums on day 1.
We have been testing on pts for weeks and relaying this information to the devs. I'm sorry you don't care enough about PvP but I do [snip].
I do pvp. I do care. And I've been watching the same discord channels that you've been posting in. Give it some time. [snip]
Alright then what discord am I posting it in?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 10:44AM1 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Templars get something comparable to Haunted Curse Blastbones, and Shalks, but still have to work towards the damage. And someone is unhappy that a class that might not have given them a problem before, is suddenly more difficult. Learn to adapt before rushing to the forums on day 1.
We have been testing on pts for weeks and relaying this information to the devs. I'm sorry you don't care enough about PvP but I do [snip].
I do pvp. I do care. And I've been watching the same discord channels that you've been posting in. Give it some time. [snip]
Alright then what discord am I posting it in?
You asked your buddy to do a test so you could post this screenshot. You didn't fight back in the test. Your buddy did a "wave" of damage while you stood there "statically".
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 10:45AM11 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭Templars get something comparable to Haunted Curse Blastbones, and Shalks, but still have to work towards the damage. And someone is unhappy that a class that might not have given them a problem before, is suddenly more difficult. Learn to adapt before rushing to the forums on day 1.
We have been testing on pts for weeks and relaying this information to the devs. I'm sorry you don't care enough about PvP but I do [snip].
I do pvp. I do care. And I've been watching the same discord channels that you've been posting in. Give it some time. [snip]
Alright then what discord am I posting it in?
You asked your buddy to do a test so you could post this screenshot. You didn't fight back in the test. Your buddy did a "wave" of damage while you stood there "statically".
The point is to show the damage scaling. Why is that hard to understand?
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 10:46AM0 -
Sindrik8x✭✭✭✭Dunno bout' you guys but I saw some nice 13 - 14k procs in BG's with Hrothgar's Chill today. Looks like a great time to be playing PvP. Cause' you know... Balance.
Guess I'll be playing PvE only this patch.5 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Templars get something comparable to Haunted Curse Blastbones, and Shalks, but still have to work towards the damage. And someone is unhappy that a class that might not have given them a problem before, is suddenly more difficult. Learn to adapt before rushing to the forums on day 1.
We have been testing on pts for weeks and relaying this information to the devs. I'm sorry you don't care enough about PvP but I do [snip].
I do pvp. I do care. And I've been watching the same discord channels that you've been posting in. Give it some time. [snip]
Alright then what discord am I posting it in?
You asked your buddy to do a test so you could post this screenshot. You didn't fight back in the test. Your buddy did a "wave" of damage while you stood there "statically".
The point is to show the damage scaling. Why is that hard to understand?
If you are going to show a video clip of you just standing there taking damage, not dodging, not los-ing, etc, it's not really proving anything yet. Just give the patch some time. If more players begin to speak up about damage out of control, then that will happen. I think we have much more out of control damage things that need more attention than a single target skill.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 10:47AM14 -
snipezor✭✭✭For the love of god, stop suggesting "Purge". It costs 5.1k magicka and only cleanses 3 abilities. When you have 5 debuffs on you it costs 10k magicka. Purifying light costs 1.9k magicka. Are you guys seriously telling me to waste 10k mag for someone to reapply it immediately? Please think carefully lmao
Just to mention: I run efficient purge on my NB of all classes, even if I'm stam spec (I'm usually magicka). And just to add to the insanity, that's also in No-CP and vampire.
While expensive, it's extremely useful, and I almost always regret not having it as cloak doesn't fix everything (nor should it).3 -
Sindrik8x✭✭✭✭For the love of god, stop suggesting "Purge". It costs 5.1k magicka and only cleanses 3 abilities. When you have 5 debuffs on you it costs 10k magicka. Purifying light costs 1.9k magicka. Are you guys seriously telling me to waste 10k mag for someone to reapply it immediately? Please think carefully lmao
Just to mention: I run efficient purge on my NB of all classes, even if I'm stam spec (I'm usually magicka). And just to add to the insanity, that's also in No-CP and vampire.
While expensive, it's extremely useful, and I almost always regret not having it as cloak doesn't fix everything (nor should it).
Doesn't seem very intuitive build wise when you need to use cloak as a NB, and want utility skills such as shade, hysteria, etc. I main a stamblade and never in my life could I bring myself to waste that much magic on a skill that's just going to prevent one or two such procs from going off. Pointless. Let me drain the little magic I have even using triune jewelry and tristat pieces (chest, greaves, helm) to purge something that's just going to be replicated shortly thereafter.
Sorry, that's bad design if it's what we are resorting too.4
https://youtu.be/AQOSdPRrzmY