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Backlash buff was too much and needs to be toned down (PvP perspective)
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temerley✭✭✭I just want you guys to know that I stopped replying negatively cause this guy won the LEGENDS dueling tournament.
And as someone like me that maybe middle class on pvp at best, this guy probably knows what he's talking about and got a better experience than most of us.Edited by temerley on August 24, 2021 7:56AM2 -
Ippokrates✭✭✭✭✭Ippokrates wrote: »Ippokrates wrote: »Ippokrates wrote: »DTStormfox wrote: »I don't know. ~9k damage from an ability that has to charge for 6 seconds seems fine to me. And it also is very obvious when it will proc the burst, so you can (probably) easily out-heal it at the right moment.
That's not the problem. The problem is it's unblockable and undodgable. There is no counterplay to it.
It is. Purge. Every class have access to it. In pvp skill tree. And it is AoE. With radius of 18 m. And it is impossible to do not see this skill over player.
I'm sorry but nobody on earth is going to slot a 5k magicka ability that can only cleanse 3 abilities unless they are a dedicated purge bot for an organized group.
On my pvp DK I am always slotting purge for situation like these, because normally i am playing stamplar (also have cleansing for purge & hot) and it always get me laugh when most of people don't care about any form of removing debuffs and then they are running like headless chickens with large green beam over head. Seriosly, especially if you are playing on Cyro, without means to remove things like curse, mark or alchemical poisons, you are asking yourself to get whipped, just like running without any form of detection.
Sure, potl is great, but unfortunately it is only way to get stamplar something alike combo - unlike other classes that can land few skills at once in intervals of 3 seconds, to make it work templar must not only wait 6 seconds but also keep damaging. So it is good for killing low & average players, but against good players that actually care about things like removing debuffs, not so much.
Last time I remember you play inside a large zerg. No offense but "slotting a 5k purge" doesn't really work for people who don't zerg
Oh, that will be funny. So you remember me playing in zergs but now you are asking for my platform? ^^
Well, sure, when i am running with pve toons to get TC at the last days of campaing i usually join groups, because then there is no way to play solo. Map is too crowded, plus i like the feeling of common fight when you supporting each other, healing & resurrecting and coordinating siege equipment. But i was never member of organize ballgroup that is abusing system and running around keep like above mentioned headless chickens ^^
But purging have much more sense when i am playing with one of my 2 pvp toons. Especially when dueling solo, quick roll, purge and GC to get back to fight can surprise enemy.
Yes, I am asking for your platform and server. I’d like to have a friendly duel with you in game, just to see if I can learn anything from you.
When you solo, do you happen to also be near or inside a large zerg, just not grouped? Because that’s called zerg surfing. If you truly solo, then you will understand why nobody slots alliance purge on their bar. It’s one of those abilities that requires you to build for it. Some similar ones are revealing flare, siege shield, & rapid maneuver. All of them cost a lot of resources, and are only used by people who specifically build for a lot of regen to sustain those abilities. If you truly solo, and you are hoping to land any killing blows, then you cannot waste resources on abilities that are not cost effective.
Well, i am still learning but we can practice with any class if you have a toon on EU. I also have account on NA but it is only 300 CP and abandoned but i think I would have enough TC to procure so equipment for basic pvp ^^
But If you want to learn, learn from the best, like there is the guy on YT, I think his nick is Kristofer and he is making a really informative videos about pvp (unlike some pvpers that are putting videos of OMG LOOK HOW GOOD I AM and then their team is almost always losing BG ^^). I have learn a lot from him, how to position, how to use block, etc. Also, his website have some very interesting builds. Not many, but the few he has are very interesting. And now, i think that he inspired me get cleansing on my templar while going to Cyro.
But going back to the topic of purge, it is hard to play without other people in Cyro. And kinda boring. But in many cases there were situations when I was initiating attacks on resources and then large groups were arriving, so can we say Zergs were surfing on me? ^^
Seriosly, i think it is exactly the opposite. If you are playing in Zerg, you don't need to care for purge, because there is good chance that some healer will be doing that. But if you are playing solo, you must be self-sufficient, able to not only heal yourself but also keep mobility or taking down debuffs. Ok, maybe when you are playing squishy nb ganker you can ignore that, but with 40-50k tank, you should really consider purging.0 -
Arbiter7070✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »[snip]
Play a Templar Turtle yourself if you think it is OP.
Looking into my kill logs, I certainly see other classes on top.
Why do you keep repeating the "Templar Turtle"? Most Templars I know are running triple swift with elude/RAT. Templars don't have to be slow, any class can be fast if you build even slightly into it.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 11:20AM1 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭I just want you guys to know that I stopped replying negatively cause this guy won the LEGENDS dueling tournament.
And as someone like me that maybe middle class on pvp at best, this guy probably knows what he's talking about and got a better experience than most of us.
Thanks the templar i fought against in the tournament is one of the best templars on PC NA. I got lucky haha. 2 -
temerley✭✭✭Ippokrates wrote: »
But If you want to learn, learn from the best, like there is the guy on YT, I think his nick is Kristofer and he is making a really informative videos about pvp (unlike some pvpers that are putting videos of OMG LOOK HOW GOOD I AM and then their team is almost always losing BG ^^). I have learn a lot from him, how to position, how to use block, etc. Also, his website have some very interesting builds. Not many, but the few he has are very interesting. And now, i think that he inspired me get cleansing on my templar while going to Cyro.
Dude: https://mobile.twitter.com/NefasQS/status/1378562897266233344/photo/1
2 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭Ippokrates wrote: »Ippokrates wrote: »Ippokrates wrote: »Ippokrates wrote: »DTStormfox wrote: »I don't know. ~9k damage from an ability that has to charge for 6 seconds seems fine to me. And it also is very obvious when it will proc the burst, so you can (probably) easily out-heal it at the right moment.
That's not the problem. The problem is it's unblockable and undodgable. There is no counterplay to it.
It is. Purge. Every class have access to it. In pvp skill tree. And it is AoE. With radius of 18 m. And it is impossible to do not see this skill over player.
I'm sorry but nobody on earth is going to slot a 5k magicka ability that can only cleanse 3 abilities unless they are a dedicated purge bot for an organized group.
On my pvp DK I am always slotting purge for situation like these, because normally i am playing stamplar (also have cleansing for purge & hot) and it always get me laugh when most of people don't care about any form of removing debuffs and then they are running like headless chickens with large green beam over head. Seriosly, especially if you are playing on Cyro, without means to remove things like curse, mark or alchemical poisons, you are asking yourself to get whipped, just like running without any form of detection.
Sure, potl is great, but unfortunately it is only way to get stamplar something alike combo - unlike other classes that can land few skills at once in intervals of 3 seconds, to make it work templar must not only wait 6 seconds but also keep damaging. So it is good for killing low & average players, but against good players that actually care about things like removing debuffs, not so much.
Last time I remember you play inside a large zerg. No offense but "slotting a 5k purge" doesn't really work for people who don't zerg
Oh, that will be funny. So you remember me playing in zergs but now you are asking for my platform? ^^
Well, sure, when i am running with pve toons to get TC at the last days of campaing i usually join groups, because then there is no way to play solo. Map is too crowded, plus i like the feeling of common fight when you supporting each other, healing & resurrecting and coordinating siege equipment. But i was never member of organize ballgroup that is abusing system and running around keep like above mentioned headless chickens ^^
But purging have much more sense when i am playing with one of my 2 pvp toons. Especially when dueling solo, quick roll, purge and GC to get back to fight can surprise enemy.
Yes, I am asking for your platform and server. I’d like to have a friendly duel with you in game, just to see if I can learn anything from you.
When you solo, do you happen to also be near or inside a large zerg, just not grouped? Because that’s called zerg surfing. If you truly solo, then you will understand why nobody slots alliance purge on their bar. It’s one of those abilities that requires you to build for it. Some similar ones are revealing flare, siege shield, & rapid maneuver. All of them cost a lot of resources, and are only used by people who specifically build for a lot of regen to sustain those abilities. If you truly solo, and you are hoping to land any killing blows, then you cannot waste resources on abilities that are not cost effective.
Well, i am still learning but we can practice with any class if you have a toon on EU. I also have account on NA but it is only 300 CP and abandoned but i think I would have enough TC to procure so equipment for basic pvp ^^
But If you want to learn, learn from the best, like there is the guy on YT, I think his nick is Kristofer and he is making a really informative videos about pvp (unlike some pvpers that are putting videos of OMG LOOK HOW GOOD I AM and then their team is almost always losing BG ^^). I have learn a lot from him, how to position, how to use block, etc. Also, his website have some very interesting builds. Not many, but the few he has are very interesting. And now, i think that he inspired me get cleansing on my templar while going to Cyro.
But going back to the topic of purge, it is hard to play without other people in Cyro. And kinda boring. But in many cases there were situations when I was initiating attacks on resources and then large groups were arriving, so can we say Zergs were surfing on me? ^^
Seriosly, i think it is exactly the opposite. If you are playing in Zerg, you don't need to care for purge, because there is good chance that some healer will be doing that. But if you are playing solo, you must be self-sufficient, able to not only heal yourself but also keep mobility or taking down debuffs. Ok, maybe when you are playing squishy nb ganker you can ignore that, but with 40-50k tank, you should really consider purging.
Ahh you play EU. I don’t have my EU char leveled but maybe one day lol.
I’ve fought Kristofer a few times. He’s a good player. We usually just ignore each other in cyrodiil because we’d rather 1vX than 1v1 in cyro lol.
As for this topic, I honestly don’t think I can get the point across anymore, so I’d rather just have ppl come duel me and show me how they survive the new backlash. I’ll be on my templar of course. Maybe they can show me something I don’t know?
3 -
Ippokrates✭✭✭✭✭Ippokrates wrote: »Ippokrates wrote: »Ippokrates wrote: »Ippokrates wrote: »DTStormfox wrote: »I don't know. ~9k damage from an ability that has to charge for 6 seconds seems fine to me. And it also is very obvious when it will proc the burst, so you can (probably) easily out-heal it at the right moment.
That's not the problem. The problem is it's unblockable and undodgable. There is no counterplay to it.
It is. Purge. Every class have access to it. In pvp skill tree. And it is AoE. With radius of 18 m. And it is impossible to do not see this skill over player.
I'm sorry but nobody on earth is going to slot a 5k magicka ability that can only cleanse 3 abilities unless they are a dedicated purge bot for an organized group.
On my pvp DK I am always slotting purge for situation like these, because normally i am playing stamplar (also have cleansing for purge & hot) and it always get me laugh when most of people don't care about any form of removing debuffs and then they are running like headless chickens with large green beam over head. Seriosly, especially if you are playing on Cyro, without means to remove things like curse, mark or alchemical poisons, you are asking yourself to get whipped, just like running without any form of detection.
Sure, potl is great, but unfortunately it is only way to get stamplar something alike combo - unlike other classes that can land few skills at once in intervals of 3 seconds, to make it work templar must not only wait 6 seconds but also keep damaging. So it is good for killing low & average players, but against good players that actually care about things like removing debuffs, not so much.
Last time I remember you play inside a large zerg. No offense but "slotting a 5k purge" doesn't really work for people who don't zerg
Oh, that will be funny. So you remember me playing in zergs but now you are asking for my platform? ^^
Well, sure, when i am running with pve toons to get TC at the last days of campaing i usually join groups, because then there is no way to play solo. Map is too crowded, plus i like the feeling of common fight when you supporting each other, healing & resurrecting and coordinating siege equipment. But i was never member of organize ballgroup that is abusing system and running around keep like above mentioned headless chickens ^^
But purging have much more sense when i am playing with one of my 2 pvp toons. Especially when dueling solo, quick roll, purge and GC to get back to fight can surprise enemy.
Yes, I am asking for your platform and server. I’d like to have a friendly duel with you in game, just to see if I can learn anything from you.
When you solo, do you happen to also be near or inside a large zerg, just not grouped? Because that’s called zerg surfing. If you truly solo, then you will understand why nobody slots alliance purge on their bar. It’s one of those abilities that requires you to build for it. Some similar ones are revealing flare, siege shield, & rapid maneuver. All of them cost a lot of resources, and are only used by people who specifically build for a lot of regen to sustain those abilities. If you truly solo, and you are hoping to land any killing blows, then you cannot waste resources on abilities that are not cost effective.
Well, i am still learning but we can practice with any class if you have a toon on EU. I also have account on NA but it is only 300 CP and abandoned but i think I would have enough TC to procure so equipment for basic pvp ^^
But If you want to learn, learn from the best, like there is the guy on YT, I think his nick is Kristofer and he is making a really informative videos about pvp (unlike some pvpers that are putting videos of OMG LOOK HOW GOOD I AM and then their team is almost always losing BG ^^). I have learn a lot from him, how to position, how to use block, etc. Also, his website have some very interesting builds. Not many, but the few he has are very interesting. And now, i think that he inspired me get cleansing on my templar while going to Cyro.
But going back to the topic of purge, it is hard to play without other people in Cyro. And kinda boring. But in many cases there were situations when I was initiating attacks on resources and then large groups were arriving, so can we say Zergs were surfing on me? ^^
Seriosly, i think it is exactly the opposite. If you are playing in Zerg, you don't need to care for purge, because there is good chance that some healer will be doing that. But if you are playing solo, you must be self-sufficient, able to not only heal yourself but also keep mobility or taking down debuffs. Ok, maybe when you are playing squishy nb ganker you can ignore that, but with 40-50k tank, you should really consider purging.
Ahh you play EU. I don’t have my EU char leveled but maybe one day lol.
I’ve fought Kristofer a few times. He’s a good player. We usually just ignore each other in cyrodiil because we’d rather 1vX than 1v1 in cyro lol.
As for this topic, I honestly don’t think I can get the point across anymore, so I’d rather just have ppl come duel me and show me how they survive the new backlash. I’ll be on my templar of course. Maybe they can show me something I don’t know?
Well, at this moment as i said before i am learning, so with my Redguard pvp tank I could match average players, but cannot do the trick with top because they are putting too much pressure.
But if i reach the moment when i would make a build specifically for top dueling, we can do some matches
0 -
Kryptonite_Kent✭✭✭✭From reading your comments you just seem mad that you cant facetank a magplar or 1vX with backlash on you[snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 1:26PMFormer Emperor
Animus Impetum -DC- Magplar
Animus Impetus -AD- Magplar
Impetus Animus -EP- Magplar
Kryptonite Kent -AD- Stamblade
Kenobi Wan -AD- Magsorc7 -
Arbiter7070✭✭✭Reading these threads gives me a headache, not because anything that MadeinVN said was wrong, because they're absolutely correct. It's the fact that as soon as anyone mentions that something is overtuned and might need looked at the casual PVP players or PVE'ers have to come in and cry for something not to be nerfed or start questioning the credibility/skill of the person posting the thread. MadeinVN is a hell of a player, and it's very clear that most of the people in this thread have absolutely no clue of that. Yes the backlash scaling is broken. Yes there is almost no counterplay to it compared to other delayed bursts. I understand everyone's reluctance to have ZOS nerf things because they tend to blow things up when they attempt to balance. But on the other hand, they should not just do nothing when something is too powerful.Edited by Arbiter7070 on August 24, 2021 8:22AM3
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ToxicOutrage✭✭✭I just want you guys to know that I stopped replying negatively cause this guy won the LEGENDS dueling tournament.
And as someone like me that maybe middle class on pvp at best, this guy probably knows what he's talking about and got a better experience than most of us.
So what? If he is the best, it only means he is the best at the current school of thought. As someone who plays dota 2, I like the idea of a class having a trump card skill that templars currently have, not every class has to be good at everything equally this is not communist scrollsEdited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 11:33AM4 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »From reading your comments you just seem mad that you cant facetank a magplar or 1vX with backlash on you[snip]
[snip] Why don’t we hop on sometime and duel it out. You on any class, me on templar, a class I don’t even main (I main stamsorc). But that’s the best way to get my point across. If i can blow you up on a class I don’t even play, then that means the class is too overtuned, no?
[edited to remove quote & for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 1:40PM0 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭ToxicOutrage wrote: »I just want you guys to know that I stopped replying negatively cause this guy won the LEGENDS dueling tournament.
And as someone like me that maybe middle class on pvp at best, this guy probably knows what he's talking about and got a better experience than most of us.
So what? If he is the best, it only means he is the best at the current school of thought. As someone who plays dota 2, I like the idea of a class having a trump card skill that templars currently have, not every class has to be good at everything equally this is not communist scrolls
I don’t claim myself to be the best. What I do claim is I know a lot about PvP in general and have fought enough to understand the game and all classes.
I’ll say it again, if verbal communication is too difficult, it’s best to act it out. The people who suggested me to slot purge, use cloak, streak, etc. should prove their point by fighting me on my templar (a class I’m completely new to). If I fail to kill them, or they easily survive the damage, then I am completely wrong and will take back everything I said. But if I am right, then we all know this ability is busted 1 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »ToxicOutrage wrote: »I just want you guys to know that I stopped replying negatively cause this guy won the LEGENDS dueling tournament.
And as someone like me that maybe middle class on pvp at best, this guy probably knows what he's talking about and got a better experience than most of us.
So what? If he is the best, it only means he is the best at the current school of thought. As someone who plays dota 2, I like the idea of a class having a trump card skill that templars currently have, not every class has to be good at everything equally this is not communist scrolls
[snip]
I small scale as well. I’m also well known within the PvP community on PC NA. Sounds like bragging but you are making a lot of assumptions about me lol. Here is a video of me in a support build doing a 5v20 against an organized group. Sadly my group disbanded and I am left to play by myself.
https://youtu.be/2OuhgiQCqjM
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 11:34AM0 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »ToxicOutrage wrote: »I just want you guys to know that I stopped replying negatively cause this guy won the LEGENDS dueling tournament.
And as someone like me that maybe middle class on pvp at best, this guy probably knows what he's talking about and got a better experience than most of us.
So what? If he is the best, it only means he is the best at the current school of thought. As someone who plays dota 2, I like the idea of a class having a trump card skill that templars currently have, not every class has to be good at everything equally this is not communist scrolls
[snip]
He's actually argued his point very well. At first, he didn't by engaging in hyperbole "there's no counterplay" which is of course, not literally true. But then he broke down quite well why the counterplay that exists was ineffective.
Purge is too expensive. If you try to get into a resource war by purging with the Templar, you'll lose. Because purge is expensive and backlash is cheap.
So the other counterplay option is to create distance.
But the problem is that speed is very cheap to slot into now, and Templars have a gap closer. This means that most classes are gonna have a hard time getting away from Templars.
If counterplay exists but isn't meaningful, it may as well not exist at all. That's why he claimed there was none earlier but better elaborated later.
At this point, all I see are ad hominem rather than counterpoints to these criticisms.
I don't PVP so I don't know which is correct. But in trying to understand the issue, I am seeing poor arguements from the Templars as to why this skill is fair. Just saying. Pretty lame to make it about his perceived skill, even if I'm not a fan of the whole "1v1 me then" attitude either. Usually when I see this, rather than reasonable defenses as to why a skill isn't overpowered, it's because the skill is overpowered and people just want to hold onto their OP thing, but aren't able to actually defend it.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 11:35AM6 -
fred4✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭After reading all of this, I'm pretty sure I will try creating a ranged magplar next
. 3 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »ToxicOutrage wrote: »I just want you guys to know that I stopped replying negatively cause this guy won the LEGENDS dueling tournament.
And as someone like me that maybe middle class on pvp at best, this guy probably knows what he's talking about and got a better experience than most of us.
So what? If he is the best, it only means he is the best at the current school of thought. As someone who plays dota 2, I like the idea of a class having a trump card skill that templars currently have, not every class has to be good at everything equally this is not communist scrolls
[snip]
He's actually argued his point very well. At first, he didn't by engaging in hyperbole "there's no counterplay" which is of course, not literally true. But then he broke down quite well why it the counterplay that exists was ineffective.
Purge is too expensive. If you try to get into a resource war by purging with the Templar, you'll lose. Because purge is expensive and backlash is cheap.
So the other counterplay option is to create distance.
But the problem is that speed is very cheap to slot into now, and Templars have a gap closer. This means that most classes are gonna have a hard time getting away from Templars.
If counterplay exists but isn't meaningful, it may as well not exist at all. That's why he claimed there was none earlier but better elaborated later.
At this point, all I see are ad hominem rather than counterpoints to these criticisms.
I don't PVP so I don't know which is correct. But in trying to understand the issue, I am seeing poor arguements from the Templars as to why this skill is fair. Just saying. Pretty lame to make it about his perceived skill, even if I'm not a fan of the whole "1v1 me then" attitude either.
Thank you! I honestly didn’t think anyone understood my point but I’m glad you did Although I think it gets the point across a whole lot faster if people just get in game and test stuff out, which I have done since the beginning of the PTS patch with a lot of good PvPers. I understand some people who came across this thread may have little experience in PvP, or may have not had the chance to test the new change, but this feedback is not just my own, but a lot of good players’ as well who also agree with me after extensive testing.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 11:37AM1 -
Kryptonite_Kent✭✭✭✭spartaxoxo wrote: »Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »ToxicOutrage wrote: »I just want you guys to know that I stopped replying negatively cause this guy won the LEGENDS dueling tournament.
And as someone like me that maybe middle class on pvp at best, this guy probably knows what he's talking about and got a better experience than most of us.
So what? If he is the best, it only means he is the best at the current school of thought. As someone who plays dota 2, I like the idea of a class having a trump card skill that templars currently have, not every class has to be good at everything equally this is not communist scrolls
[snip]
He's actually argued his point very well. At first, he didn't by engaging in hyperbole "there's no counterplay" which is of course, not literally true. But then he broke down quite well why it the counterplay that exists was ineffective.
Purge is too expensive. If you try to get into a resource war by purging with the Templar, you'll lose. Because purge is expensive and backlash is cheap.
So the other counterplay option is to create distance.
But the problem is that speed is very cheap to slot into now, and Templars have a gap closer. This means that most classes are gonna have a hard time getting away from Templars.
If counterplay exists but isn't meaningful, it may as well not exist at all. That's why he claimed there was none earlier but better elaborated later.
At this point, all I see are ad hominem rather than counterpoints to these criticisms.
I don't PVP so I don't know which is correct. But in trying to understand the issue, I am seeing poor arguements from the Templars as to why this skill is fair. Just saying. Pretty lame to make it about his perceived skill, even if I'm not a fan of the whole "1v1 me then" attitude either.
Sorc has plenty of counters to a magplar lol.... streak for one, ez spam stun... magplar is probably one of the easiest classes to kill, its slow, has a weak skill set, and now they get a buff that makes them viable [snip]
Oh and since you mentioned you dont pvp.... theres literally an ability that lets you cleanse negative effects off lol, he just says he doesnt want to slot it.... his entire complaint revolves around the fact that he cant 1vX a bunch of people because they have a counter to his cheese 1vX build and he doesnt want to have to mess up his cheese by slotting a purge, or running with another player(s) who have cleanses... [snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 1:24PMFormer Emperor
Animus Impetum -DC- Magplar
Animus Impetus -AD- Magplar
Impetus Animus -EP- Magplar
Kryptonite Kent -AD- Stamblade
Kenobi Wan -AD- Magsorc3 -
Kryptonite_Kent✭✭✭✭After reading all of this, I'm pretty sure I will try creating a ranged magplar next.
apparently according to the op its god mode that no one can escape from lmaooooooFormer Emperor
Animus Impetum -DC- Magplar
Animus Impetus -AD- Magplar
Impetus Animus -EP- Magplar
Kryptonite Kent -AD- Stamblade
Kenobi Wan -AD- Magsorc1 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »ToxicOutrage wrote: »I just want you guys to know that I stopped replying negatively cause this guy won the LEGENDS dueling tournament.
And as someone like me that maybe middle class on pvp at best, this guy probably knows what he's talking about and got a better experience than most of us.
So what? If he is the best, it only means he is the best at the current school of thought. As someone who plays dota 2, I like the idea of a class having a trump card skill that templars currently have, not every class has to be good at everything equally this is not communist scrolls
[snip]
He's actually argued his point very well. At first, he didn't by engaging in hyperbole "there's no counterplay" which is of course, not literally true. But then he broke down quite well why it the counterplay that exists was ineffective.
Purge is too expensive. If you try to get into a resource war by purging with the Templar, you'll lose. Because purge is expensive and backlash is cheap.
So the other counterplay option is to create distance.
But the problem is that speed is very cheap to slot into now, and Templars have a gap closer. This means that most classes are gonna have a hard time getting away from Templars.
If counterplay exists but isn't meaningful, it may as well not exist at all. That's why he claimed there was none earlier but better elaborated later.
At this point, all I see are ad hominem rather than counterpoints to these criticisms.
I don't PVP so I don't know which is correct. But in trying to understand the issue, I am seeing poor arguements from the Templars as to why this skill is fair. Just saying. Pretty lame to make it about his perceived skill, even if I'm not a fan of the whole "1v1 me then" attitude either.
Sorc has plenty of counters to a magplar lol.... streak for one, ez spam stun... magplar is probably one of the easiest classes to kill, its slow, has a weak skill set, and now they get a buff that makes them viable and of course someone complains because he probably got schooled... and then dares everyone to "1v1 me bro".... [snip]
[snip] Templars dominate both mag and stamsorcs in everything but openworld, and that’s only because they don’t have streak. [snip]
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 12:00PM1 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly I don't see much of a threat there. Its 9k Damage after 6 Seconds, 1 D Swing can do the same after 0.8 seconds, 1 surprise Attack does 10k+ without casttime and so on.PC|EU12 -
Kryptonite_Kent✭✭✭✭Honestly I don't see much of a threat there. Its 9k Damage after 6 Seconds, 1 D Swing can do the same after 0.8 seconds, 1 surprise Attack does 10k+ without casttime and so on.
Exactly.... theres plenty of abilities that hit just as hard instantly and also have stuns attached in some cases... dude is crying over a delayed ability that is literally telegraphed onto you with a giant glow beam lmaoFormer Emperor
Animus Impetum -DC- Magplar
Animus Impetus -AD- Magplar
Impetus Animus -EP- Magplar
Kryptonite Kent -AD- Stamblade
Kenobi Wan -AD- Magsorc5 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭Honestly I don't see much of a threat there. Its 9k Damage after 6 Seconds, 1 D Swing can do the same after 0.8 seconds, 1 surprise Attack does 10k+ without casttime and so on.
Refer to my post on 2nd page to see my explanation as to why the new backlash needs to be toned down.
Dizzying swing is a spammable, while backlash is a delayed burst. You cannot compare dizzying swing to backlash. Dizzying swing is usually compared to jabs, surprise attacks, crushing shock, etc. In the spammable department, jab is light years ahead of dizzying swing due to its higher tooltip and the ability to proc burning light. A single cast of jab, if all connected, can deal between 6k-10k damage before burning light.
Dizzying swing is also the easiest ability to avoid. The only times where I due to dizzying swing is if I underestimate my opponent’s damage or the server lags. Otherwise, I just block or roll dodge and they cannot do anything.
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Kryptonite_Kent✭✭✭✭[snip]
Backlash:
This ability and its morphs now retain 50% of the damage you dealt to the target, up from 20%, to help be more reliable in Player versus Player encounters.
The final explosion now scales off your Spell or Weapon Damage depending on the morph, rather than Magicka or Stamina. The final explosion now also scales with both positive and negative bonuses, rather than only negative ones. Haha Backlash go boom.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 11:55AMFormer Emperor
Animus Impetum -DC- Magplar
Animus Impetus -AD- Magplar
Impetus Animus -EP- Magplar
Kryptonite Kent -AD- Stamblade
Kenobi Wan -AD- Magsorc0 -
MadeInVN✭✭✭✭Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »[snip]
Backlash:
This ability and its morphs now retain 50% of the damage you dealt to the target, up from 20%, to help be more reliable in Player versus Player encounters.
The final explosion now scales off your Spell or Weapon Damage depending on the morph, rather than Magicka or Stamina. The final explosion now also scales with both positive and negative bonuses, rather than only negative ones. Haha Backlash go boom.
It doesn’t really matter because 20 good players, or “elitist” as you call it, have tested on pts right after this change was announced. All 20 out of 20 players agreed that this ability is too strong, even the templar mains. So I am not speaking for myself, but on behalf of a lot of good players. [snip]
[edited for baiting & to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 12:26PM1 -
L_Nici✭✭✭✭✭
✭@MadeInVN So you rather want Backlash compared to Blastbones and Subs? Alright, Blastbones hit for about 7-9k and apply Major Defile, Subs can hit you for beyond 15k just like that, recast themselves or apply Major Breach in case of Fissure.
Sooo where is backlash a threat now? It just has its 9k damage, you first need to stack and Minor Breach on the Power of the Light morph.Edited by L_Nici on August 24, 2021 9:33AMPC|EU3 -
Kryptonite_Kent✭✭✭✭Kryptonite_Kent wrote: »[snip]
Backlash:
This ability and its morphs now retain 50% of the damage you dealt to the target, up from 20%, to help be more reliable in Player versus Player encounters.
The final explosion now scales off your Spell or Weapon Damage depending on the morph, rather than Magicka or Stamina. The final explosion now also scales with both positive and negative bonuses, rather than only negative ones. Haha Backlash go boom.
It doesn’t really matter because 20 good players, or “elitist” as you call it, have tested on pts right after this change was announced. All 20 out of 20 players agreed that this ability is too strong, even the templar mains. So I am not speaking for myself, but on behalf of a lot of good players. But clearly to you we are just elitists and need to l2p. [snip]
You do realize the ability didnt really get buffed though... it still has a damage cap, it just made it able to actually capture the full cap amount of damage in 6 seconds, where it almost never did at 20%... its doing what it was supposed to be doing all the time, and again, its a delayed telegraphed cleansable attack that does no more damage than many other attacks in the game that also have stuns built into them and etc... youre just mad you dont want to have to cleanse it off because it screws up your stamsorc cheese 1vX build
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on August 24, 2021 12:28PMFormer Emperor
Animus Impetum -DC- Magplar
Animus Impetus -AD- Magplar
Impetus Animus -EP- Magplar
Kryptonite Kent -AD- Stamblade
Kenobi Wan -AD- Magsorc1 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I played 10+ BG's last night and cyrodill for a couple of hours. Whilst there is certainly an increase in templars they felt only slightly more threatening than they did before the patch. Certainly didn't feel any worse than a good necro or warden. I appreciate this is early days though 🤷
I'm sorry @MadeInVN I'm just not seeing it. I think templars needed this tbh. I haven't tried my own stamplar yet, but am excited too 😁Edited by relentless_turnip on August 24, 2021 9:42AM4