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QUESTS ARE JUST TOO EASY!
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Malthorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭What motivates other players to try so hard at telling other players they can’t have something? How does the idea of an option to increase fun and engagement for some negatively affect others so much. Especially those that have no intention of interacting with the presented option,2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What motivates other players to try so hard at telling other players they can’t have something? How does the idea of an option to increase fun and engagement for some negatively affect others so much. Especially those that have no intention of interacting with the presented option,
What motivates players to ask for something that most other players do not find a need for?
There have been multiple threads on this same subject yet this idea hasn't garnered any more support.PCNA1 -
Biro123✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »What motivates other players to try so hard at telling other players they can’t have something? How does the idea of an option to increase fun and engagement for some negatively affect others so much. Especially those that have no intention of interacting with the presented option,
What motivates players to ask for something that most other players do not find a need for?
There have been multiple threads on this same subject yet this idea hasn't garnered any more support.
Why ask for anything then? No suggestion will ever get 100% support. Often there are those who are pro, those against and those who don't care either way.
I really struggle to understand why anyone would be directly against an option. As an option, even those who don't see a need for it now may find it useful later.
I don't do trials but don't argue against adding more, because I understand that others enjoy them. They do me no harm, so why would I try to spoil others enjoyment?
Minalan owes me a beer.
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Khattman Doo - Stamblade - Relegated to Crafter, cos AD.5 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I don't believe purple drops are worthless, they have lots of value for deconstructing into valuable mats. We all know what happens with valuable mats right? So I am sorry the current content overland is available to all and we all get a fair shot at it. If I want purple drops which are also available now in overland content. I think it would be unfair to offer the same content with difficulty turned up and better rewards. I don't see it as fair. They should reinstate Caldwell's silver and gold so the difficulty scales if you decided to do it. Keep the rewards the same, you will get the challenge that way. But believe me as I did them both it was boring and more tedious for me personally when I did it before one tramiel.
Do you know why it was more tedious and boring?
Because they did not change the gameplay mechanics.
Their stats were boosted but they were still incompetent fighters, so instead of having an engaging fight it was just longer.
So in order to make it fun and engaging the developers would need to update the mechanics, so then the enemies did more damage as well as used more abilities and tactics more frequently.
I can agree on the no rewards though.1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I love how this whole 'MAKE OVERLAND HARDER' thing started as supposedly just wanting a better challenge and they swore up and down that they didn't care about loot.
Now suddenly people are getting a LOT more vocal about requiring loot to be better too.
And a lot of people have said no to loot as well [snip]
ZOS could have an easy way to make everyone happy (and itself...): make that "difficulty slider" or whatever it is buyable, like other gadgets like All Races, Change Race/Alliance, etc.
OFC, no better loot, else it would become PtW, but this is not what matters to Overland dissatisfied people, correct ?
[edited to remove quote]
ESO already has a difficulty slider...if the people who are complaining would take off the frostbite set and stop using the dojour "Unkillable" spec from Brah We got this then the quest would be more difficult. The devs know this, and deep down most rational people know this as well.
What is really wanted (No matter how much people protest otherwise this is the truth.) is to be able to complete content only with Godspecs. No matter how much this is yelled for it will never ever happen.
I don’t play with gods specs, and it’s still boring. No matter how much you try to frame this conversation that way, that doesn’t remove the fact that there are new players and casual players who find the combat boring.1 -
Malthorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »What motivates other players to try so hard at telling other players they can’t have something? How does the idea of an option to increase fun and engagement for some negatively affect others so much. Especially those that have no intention of interacting with the presented option,
What motivates players to ask for something that most other players do not find a need for?
There have been multiple threads on this same subject yet this idea hasn't garnered any more support.
I’ll answer your question:
What motivates me is that I would like to have a more engaging questing experience. It doesn’t have to be super hard, but if it is that’s ok too. The current questing model is so easy it is immersion breaking for me and many others. That’s why there are years of threads asking for an optional difficulty increase.
Now answer mine:What motivates other players to try so hard at telling other players they can’t have something?
But if you won’t or you can’t, at least be honest with yourself for why you fight so hard to discourage a fun mode for other players.3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why ask for anything then? No suggestion will ever get 100% support. Often there are those who are pro, those against and those who don't care either way.
Because feedback is important for helping improve the game and keeping players happy. But feedback goes both ways. When someone presents an idea they have to be prepared for the fact that not everyone will agree with it.I really struggle to understand why anyone would be directly against an option. As an option, even those who don't see a need for it now may find it useful later.
This has been answered multiple times in multiple threads. My biggest issues with it are that overland is for every player of every skill level and is for questing and telling the story. It is not reasonable to expect a veteran level of the base game, especially if it would provide an unfair advantage to those players with increased rewards, which has been debated. Overland is not supposed to be hard.I don't do trials but don't argue against adding more, because I understand that others enjoy them. They do me no harm, so why would I try to spoil others enjoyment?
I have never argued against them either, and why would I? I realize there are players who like more of the challenge than the base game provides. That is why we have veteran dungeons, trials and arenas. But it is unreasonable to expect the base game become veteran content, optional or otherwise, when we already have content for that purpose.PCNA1 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Why ask for anything then? No suggestion will ever get 100% support. Often there are those who are pro, those against and those who don't care either way.
Because feedback is important for helping improve the game and keeping players happy. But feedback goes both ways. When someone presents an idea they have to be prepared for the fact that not everyone will agree with it.I really struggle to understand why anyone would be directly against an option. As an option, even those who don't see a need for it now may find it useful later.
This has been answered multiple times in multiple threads. My biggest issues with it are that overland is for every player of every skill level and is for questing and telling the story. It is not reasonable to expect a veteran level of the base game, especially if it would provide an unfair advantage to those players with increased rewards, which has been debated. Overland is not supposed to be hard.I don't do trials but don't argue against adding more, because I understand that others enjoy them. They do me no harm, so why would I try to spoil others enjoyment?
I have never argued against them either, and why would I? I realize there are players who like more of the challenge than the base game provides. That is why we have veteran dungeons, trials and arenas. But it is unreasonable to expect the base game become veteran content, optional or otherwise, when we already have content for that purpose.
How would increased rewards be an unfair advantage for people playing a harder version of the overland? All of the rewards you currently get now would be exactly the same and a bump from green to blue or blue to purple wouldn't be a significant monetary advantage at all, in fact it would be an absolutely terrible way to make gold compared to the options already available. The most it would do would be congruent with the same normal/veteran loot scale that dungeons already utilize.1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭How would increased rewards be an unfair advantage for people playing a harder version of the overland? All of the rewards you currently get now would be exactly the same and a bump from green to blue or blue to purple wouldn't be a significant monetary advantage at all, in fact it would be an absolutely terrible way to make gold compared to the options already available. The most it would do would be congruent with the same normal/veteran loot scale that dungeons already utilize.SilverBride wrote: »The difference is that overland is the only choice that low level and newer players have until their characters progress. High CP players with the bis gear have multiple choices for where to play.
The fact that these veteran players can succeed at more difficult content does not make it fair that they reap better rewards for the base game that was never intended to be challenging, or a means of acquiring the best rewards, in the first place. The best rewards are and should remain in the challenging content that was developed for veteran players.Edited by SilverBride on June 29, 2021 8:23PMPCNA2 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »How would increased rewards be an unfair advantage for people playing a harder version of the overland? All of the rewards you currently get now would be exactly the same and a bump from green to blue or blue to purple wouldn't be a significant monetary advantage at all, in fact it would be an absolutely terrible way to make gold compared to the options already available. The most it would do would be congruent with the same normal/veteran loot scale that dungeons already utilize.SilverBride wrote: »The difference is that overland is the only choice that low level and newer players have until their characters progress. High CP players with the bis gear have multiple choices for where to play.
The fact that these veteran players can succeed at more difficult content does not make it fair that they reap better rewards for the base game that was never intended to be challenging, or a means of acquiring the best rewards, in the first place. The best rewards are and should remain in the challenging content that was developed for veteran players.
Yes, but it would not be the base game, it would be a newer, more difficult version of it. Everything you currently enjoy would stay exactly the same. Again, how is this unfair to you?1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes, but it would not be the base game, it would be a newer, more difficult version of it. Everything you currently enjoy would stay exactly the same. Again, how is this unfair to you?
Because of the reasons I stated.
I would like to know why high CP players who are decked out in all the bis gear want to spend their time playing the base game anyway. Why not utilize the already in place content that can offer them a real challenge and better rewards? How is fighting a pumped up group of bears going to be rewarding?Edited by SilverBride on June 29, 2021 8:32PMPCNA2 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Yes, but it would not be the base game, it would be a newer, more difficult version of it. Everything you currently enjoy would stay exactly the same. Again, how is this unfair to you?
Because of the reasons I stated.
I would like to know why high CP players who are decked out in all the bis gear want to spend their time playing the base game anyway. Why not utilize the challenging content that can offer them a real challenge and better rewards? How is fighting a pumped up group of bears going to be rewarding?
But the reasons you stated are based on the objective fallacy that vet overland would be the base game. It wouldn't. It would clearly be a new and more difficult development from the base game, and you still haven't explained why something as modest as a RNG chance of a quality increase would be unfair for that.
Honestly, I'd like a harder overland for the same reason most like the overland: to relax. It would be fun to explore the overland and enjoy it. But I can't relax to the overland, because it is quite simply far, far too boring. It wouldn't take much; just the mobs being more aggressive and actually doing enough damage to potentially kill me would be enough for me to be relatively engaged with it.4 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »How would increased rewards be an unfair advantage for people playing a harder version of the overland? All of the rewards you currently get now would be exactly the same and a bump from green to blue or blue to purple wouldn't be a significant monetary advantage at all, in fact it would be an absolutely terrible way to make gold compared to the options already available. The most it would do would be congruent with the same normal/veteran loot scale that dungeons already utilize.SilverBride wrote: »The difference is that overland is the only choice that low level and newer players have until their characters progress. High CP players with the bis gear have multiple choices for where to play.
The fact that these veteran players can succeed at more difficult content does not make it fair that they reap better rewards for the base game that was never intended to be challenging, or a means of acquiring the best rewards, in the first place. The best rewards are and should remain in the challenging content that was developed for veteran players.
Yes, but it would not be the base game, it would be a newer, more difficult version of it. Everything you currently enjoy would stay exactly the same. Again, how is this unfair to you?
How is this fair to the people that can't or do not want to do it? What is being asked now is for a rewrite of the whole game with better rewards according to several posts here. Personally I want my sub money going to new content for anyone to enjoy. There is currently overland content available to everyone. There is currently normal dungeons, WB s, dragons, harrowstorms, arena, vet dungeons hm dungeons, antiquities, crafting and pvp in several modes. I'm pretty happy with the current modes of content. If you want a challenge I wouldn't be opposed to them activating silver and gold as it used to be with no upgrade in rewards. Because that is not fair to everyone who is doing the same content as it was designed, because according to some it's only about the challenge not about the rewards. Oh wait.. some people want better rewards so it's not actually about the challenge? Oh wait.. I'm confused.1 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But the reasons you stated are based on the objective fallacy that vet overland would be the base game. It wouldn't. It would clearly be a new and more difficult development from the base game, and you still haven't explained why something as modest as a RNG chance of a quality increase would be unfair for that.
There is no reason to have 2 instances of the base game that was never meant to be challenging or a place to farm veteran gear in the first place.But I can't relax to the overland, because it is quite simply far, far too boring.
That is merely your opinion. There are many players who do not find overland boring at all, myself for example.
Not everyone likes every aspect of the game. I don't like PvP so I don't do it. I don't like veteran end game content so I don't do it. But I am not asking for these things to be tailored to my particular wants, especially when there is plenty of other content I can and do enjoy.Edited by SilverBride on June 29, 2021 8:43PMPCNA1 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »How would increased rewards be an unfair advantage for people playing a harder version of the overland? All of the rewards you currently get now would be exactly the same and a bump from green to blue or blue to purple wouldn't be a significant monetary advantage at all, in fact it would be an absolutely terrible way to make gold compared to the options already available. The most it would do would be congruent with the same normal/veteran loot scale that dungeons already utilize.SilverBride wrote: »The difference is that overland is the only choice that low level and newer players have until their characters progress. High CP players with the bis gear have multiple choices for where to play.
The fact that these veteran players can succeed at more difficult content does not make it fair that they reap better rewards for the base game that was never intended to be challenging, or a means of acquiring the best rewards, in the first place. The best rewards are and should remain in the challenging content that was developed for veteran players.
Yes, but it would not be the base game, it would be a newer, more difficult version of it. Everything you currently enjoy would stay exactly the same. Again, how is this unfair to you?
How is this fair to the people that can't or do not want to do it? What is being asked now is for a rewrite of the whole game with better rewards according to several posts here. Personally I want my sub money going to new content for anyone to enjoy. There is currently overland content available to everyone. There is currently normal dungeons, WB s, dragons, harrowstorms, arena, vet dungeons hm dungeons, antiquities, crafting and pvp in several modes. I'm pretty happy with the current modes of content. If you want a challenge I wouldn't be opposed to them activating silver and gold as it used to be with no upgrade in rewards. Because that is not fair to everyone who is doing the same content as it was designed, because according to some it's only about the challenge not about the rewards. Oh wait.. some people want better rewards so it's not actually about the challenge? Oh wait.. I'm confused.
I mean, I don't care that others are saying there shouldn't be rewards; I'm saying there should, because it's the model established by literally every single RPG since Diablo, including this one. Harder content, better reward, however modest that may be. This genre thrives on dopamine whether we want to admit it or not. Is it really gonna trigger you so much if you get a blue, Invigorating Dagger of the Definitely Getting Deconned versus someone else doing a harder version of the content and getting a purple, Invigorating Dagger of the Definitely Getting Deconned?3 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »But the reasons you stated are based on the objective fallacy that vet overland would be the base game. It wouldn't. It would clearly be a new and more difficult development from the base game, and you still haven't explained why something as modest as a RNG chance of a quality increase would be unfair for that.
There is no reason to have 2 instances of the base game that was never meant to be challenging or a place to farm veteran gear in the first place.But I can't relax to the overland, because it is quite simply far, far too boring.
That is merely your opinion. There are many players who do not find overland boring at all, myself for example.
Not everyone likes every aspect of the game. I don't like PvP so I don't do it. I don't like veteran end game content so I don't do it. But I am not asking for these things to be tailored to my particular wants, especially when there is plenty of other content I can and do enjoy.
There may be plenty of other content you can enjoy, but that's because like 90% of the game is designed at that difficulty level. That design is why people are asking to change your first point, the notion that overland is not meant to be challenging. If people were opting into a more challenging overland and everything you currently enjoy remained unaffected, how could that possibly bother you? That's just toxic gatekeeping at that point.Edited by Sorbin on June 29, 2021 9:01PM3 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Alurria wrote:
I'm just going to copy paste my answer here
Alurria wrote: »
I don't believe purple drops are worthless, they have lots of value for deconstructing into valuable mats. We all know what happens with valuable mats right? So I am sorry the current content overland is available to all and we all get a fair shot at it. If I want purple drops which are also available now in overland content. I think it would be unfair to offer the same content with difficulty turned up and better rewards. I don't see it as fair. They should reinstate Caldwell's silver and gold so the difficulty scales if you decided to do it. Keep the rewards the same, you will get the challenge that way.2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭There may be plenty of other content you can enjoy, but that's because like 90% of the game is designed at that difficulty level. That design is why people are asking to change your first point, the notion that overland is not meant to be challenging. If people were opting into a more challenging overland and everything you currently enjoy remained unaffected, how could that possibly bother you? That's just toxic gatekeeping at that point.
I have already explained it but maybe an analogy would help.
Joe just graduated from high school. Joe is now prepared and able to go to college, but Joe doesn't want to go to college. He wants to remain in high school. But high school is no longer a challenge for Joe so he goes to the board of education and requests that there be optional college level classes of every subject high school teaches.
So the board of education says "What would it hurt? It would make Joe happy and why would anyone else be bothered by that?" But Joe didn't stop there. Joe went back to the board of education and said since he is doing college work he should be awarded a college degree. Why would anyone object to that?
Well they would object because Joe has an unfair advantage over all the other people who paid a lot of money for their college educations that Joe just got for basically free.
High school was never meant to be turned into a way to get a free college education. Overland and the base game was never meant to be turned into a way to do veteran content and reap veteran rewards.Edited by SilverBride on June 29, 2021 9:12PMPCNA1 -
Sorbin✭✭✭✭Alurria wrote:
I'm just going to copy paste my answer here
Alurria wrote: »
I don't believe purple drops are worthless, they have lots of value for deconstructing into valuable mats. We all know what happens with valuable mats right? So I am sorry the current content overland is available to all and we all get a fair shot at it. If I want purple drops which are also available now in overland content. I think it would be unfair to offer the same content with difficulty turned up and better rewards. I don't see it as fair. They should reinstate Caldwell's silver and gold so the difficulty scales if you decided to do it. Keep the rewards the same, you will get the challenge that way.
I mean, you can see it as unfair, but by the game's own standards, you're objectively wrong. Now if some people just got better drops for the exact same content? That would be unfair.
I suspect that all of this gatekeeping is propagated by players who see the overland as a safe space and want people who seek a challenge relegated to as small a slice of content as possible to protect some sort of inferiority complex.3 -
axxlesoft_ESO✭✭✭I am for a difficulty level selector as an optional feature for zone content.
The reason for the feature is to enhance the fun of replaying content.
Every elder scrolls game I have played, has a difficulty level selector. I am a fan of Skyrim's system over previous versions that used sliders. Four or five distinct choices is better than a variable slider. For instance {EASY, NORMAL, HARD, LEGENDARY};
As much as I loved Daggerfall and Morrowind, Oblivion is where I first gained my great appreciation for the difficulty selector. Accepting the challenge and embracing the suck of the higher difficulties tended to reveal the most effective strategies. In other words, the feature both challenged the player and rewarded the player with revelations about the most effective tactics for survival. The feature enabled the player to learn how the game was meant to be played.
For example: while playing on Oblivion's highest difficulty, the Vilverin Ayleid Ruins, across from the Imperial Prison Sewer exit, becomes an excellent test that can expose a player's strategic weaknesses and provide the player with a bounty of lessons learned. I figured out the value of summoning (and letting my summoned companion soak up damage). I had not bothered much with summoning before playing Oblivion on the hardest difficulty. It was not until my weak tactics failed that I began developing better strategies. I did not do it because I enjoy the grind; I did it for the enhancement of my own skill and that, in turn, enhanced the replay value of the game.
Thank you!
Dragon Slayer
Edited by axxlesoft_ESO on June 29, 2021 9:17PM4 -
Folkb✭✭✭✭✭I'd rather have it like it is than it was at launch. At launch fighting felt like a chore and I avoided aggroing anything I didn't need to fight.
1 -
KyraCROgnon✭✭✭
Secret WorldMassacre_Wurm wrote: »ESO have best quests in MMOs ever.
If you think quests here are boring can you recommend MMO with more interesting quests ?
But they killed it with the relaunch 
where they dumbed the quests and spoiled the mood.
It was the only mmo where i would replay quests for the feeling of them (ahhh the Emma story ark, especially "The Sound of Children" and "I Walk Into Empty" ... darn now i'm all nostalgic )
0 -
jsarthur_ESO✭✭✭It's when a quest makes you run here, then there, back here, then there again, then here, back again, now go here, then back again, then here, then there. 🤮2 -
Alurria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Let me give you all a ride down memory lane, MMOs were not always as forgiving, ever heard of deleveling well not to long ago that happened pretty frequently in certain games. Oh and losing all that experience was no fun especially if you deleveled doing harder content because now you had to make up for it by going back to content you already did. There was nothing fun about it. Now fast forward, character death has no consequences in most games so you lose nothing. Personally I don't want to go backwards. But that is just me. Now having said all that I will leave this thread to the hopes and dreams of trying to push the developers into whatever it is that is wanted. Becareful what you ask for.1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Thechuckage wrote: »Vet overland would be a nice stepping stone into group content, as the current model hardly prepares players for normal dungeons at all, let alone harder ones. There are multiple threads about DD's who can't outdamage their tank/healer or otherwise contributing very little to the dungeon group.
Overland isn't supposed to prepare you for group dungeons. Overland is quests and the story. The only way to learn group mechanics is to jump into a dungeon and learn.
We had vet levels before One Tamriel and that had no effect on how well players learned group mechanics, but how would it? Fighting a group of vet level bears isn't going to prepare you for dungeons.
If you never face an enemy that hits hard enough for you to need to block its attack, why would you ever block anything? If you never face an enemy that cast aoe's that are dangerous enough to encourage you to move out of them? Or face an enemy who channels an attack that's threatening enough to interrupt. As is most enemies you face in overland, when doing their 'special attacks' are doing nothing but wasting their own time letting you kill them uninterrupted. That kind of an opponent fails in every way to prepare players for situations where they need to do things like block, move, or interrupt. Not dungeon specific mechanics, core combat mechanics that apply to the whole game.SilverBride wrote: »Yes, but it would not be the base game, it would be a newer, more difficult version of it. Everything you currently enjoy would stay exactly the same. Again, how is this unfair to you?
Because of the reasons I stated.
I would like to know why high CP players who are decked out in all the bis gear want to spend their time playing the base game anyway. Why not utilize the already in place content that can offer them a real challenge and better rewards? How is fighting a pumped up group of bears going to be rewarding?
As is, we do vet dungeons and trials all the time. Practically living in these areas, as much as we enjoy them, there's still the entire rest of the game which dwarfs it in size and content and running the same few things over and over again is tedious. We want to do something other than these tiny areas all the time, and if we want to do stuff without a group, what are our options? Solo dungeons, the places we already live in? vMA and vVH? Those arenas in particular are just as much of a chore unless you enjoy the repetitive nature they offer, so how hard is it to expect that we want to explore the world and enjoy the story, only to be let down that the Wayrest docks are more dangerous a location that the swamps of blackmarsh, and that a crocodile in its sewers is more dangerous than an ancient vampire lord whose trying to raise an army to take over the world?2 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As is, we do vet dungeons and trials all the time. Practically living in these areas, as much as we enjoy them, there's still the entire rest of the game which dwarfs it in size and content and running the same few things over and over again is tedious.
That is the price of character progression. Content will become easier as the player becomes stronger. That does not mean all content should keep getting harder to keep up with the player.Edited by SilverBride on June 29, 2021 10:05PMPCNA1 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't believe purple drops are worthless, they have lots of value for deconstructing into valuable mats. We all know what happens with valuable mats right? So I am sorry the current content overland is available to all and we all get a fair shot at it. If I want purple drops which are also available now in overland content. I think it would be unfair to offer the same content with difficulty turned up and better rewards. I don't see it as fair. They should reinstate Caldwell's silver and gold so the difficulty scales if you decided to do it. Keep the rewards the same, you will get the challenge that way. But believe me as I did them both it was boring and more tedious for me personally when I did it before one tramiel.
So, basically every single dungeon and trial then? Same content (fights, map, enemies, exc.) but with better rewards (monster helms, purple gear, perfected sets). That's kind of the standard, and honestly if I wanted to farm purple gear to get a lot to decon I would run something like a vet base game dungeon where the bosses are glorified elite mobs, since there are many of them packed into a small space, whereas a vet overland having bosses drop purple gear, where do you see them? Bosses at the end of a quest, probably not give them purple drops, since the term 'boss' is loose enough for them as is. World bosses? Far harder to kill one of those as is compared to some base game vet dungeon bosses, so again, if I wanted to farm to break the market that's where I would go.There is middle tier it's called normal dungeons, harrowstorms, dragons, world bosses. Dailey quests for several guilds. Even pvp.
Normal dungeons and the vast majority of daily quests are not middle tier at all. Normal dungeons are basically just as easy as overland once you're moderately comfortable with mechanics and tons of the harrowstorms and dragons are literally dead all the time. World bosses are great, but it's a sliver of content. People want to be able to engage in genuine, solo exploration without falling asleep.
So if people are moderately comfortable with mechanics why are they not trying veteran dungeons? How is overland going to make them be able to do veteran dungeons if normal dungeons are too easy? That doesn't make any sense to me so please explain it thanks?
We already do these, all the time, to the point that we sometimes tire of them. The solo arenas are particularly prone to becoming boring because, where in a 4-man dungeon or trial we at least have other people making each run different, in the solo arenas everything happens exactly the same every time, making them incredibly dull, not to mention how much of a chore the vVH bosses are.0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
This has been answered multiple times in multiple threads. My biggest issues with it are that overland is for every player of every skill level and is for questing and telling the story.
It is not reasonable to expect a veteran level of the base game, especially if it would provide an unfair advantage to those players with increased rewards, which has been debated. Overland is not supposed to be hard.SilverBride wrote: »Yes, but it would not be the base game, it would be a newer, more difficult version of it. Everything you currently enjoy would stay exactly the same. Again, how is this unfair to you?
Because of the reasons I stated.
I would like to know why high CP players who are decked out in all the bis gear want to spend their time playing the base game anyway. Why not utilize the already in place content that can offer them a real challenge and better rewards? How is fighting a pumped up group of bears going to be rewarding?
I’m going to explain this one final time as clearly as I can so there can be no confusion on this. So then you can never say that you are “confused” or “Don’t Know” why anyone would be asking for this.
In our opinion: Story =/= Easy
You have explained that part of the reason that you enjoy the story is because the gameplay is simple and not hard. You play it like a visual novel and you like it that way.
You did not like it when Overland and story was too hard for you. You find the current set up enjoyable. It is fun for you with how the story currently plays.
Ok, Fine. You do you.
No one is shaming you for it, and no one is trying to take that away from you.
However, there are many people here, including myself, who do Not enjoy the story because it is too easy.
Just as making the story too hard can make it unenjoyable, so can making it Too Easy.
This is NOT about seeking endgame hard content.
This is about making exploration and story content more enjoyable for other people.
Sure, everyone can do Overland – that doesn’t it make it fun for everyone.
We are not asking for more trials, dungeons, or Arena’s, or any endgame content. Endgame is fine where it is. We are asking for an optional difficulty mode so then we can ENJOY the story content.
When the story is too easy then that makes it not fun. It kills immersion, excitement, and any investment that we could’ve had in the story.
That’s one of the things I liked about the single player elder school games, is that I could make the Story harder, which made an overall better experience for me. I was more immersed and invested.
Gameplay and story are not separate from each other - You know this because part of the reason why you enjoy the story is because it is easy.
But for us, if the story was too easy then that made the story worse, for the reasons already stated.
We would like our own instance/setting that is for people with an above beginner level skill - because making Overland and the story designed exclusively for new players makes it boring for many of us.
It’s fine if you like the current difficulty level and you find that fun - but I and others don’t want to play according to your definition of “fun” because we don’t find it Fun.
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And to state one final time gear, and champion points, do not matter in general Overland (except WB & Dolmen - because that’s group content) or Story.
I don’t play with gods specs, and it’s still boring.
No matter how much you try to frame this conversation that way, that doesn’t remove the fact that there are new players and casual players who find the combat in Overland and Questing boring.
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Edited for spelling and grammarEdited by Iccotak on June 30, 2021 1:11AM4 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »There may be plenty of other content you can enjoy, but that's because like 90% of the game is designed at that difficulty level. That design is why people are asking to change your first point, the notion that overland is not meant to be challenging. If people were opting into a more challenging overland and everything you currently enjoy remained unaffected, how could that possibly bother you? That's just toxic gatekeeping at that point.
I have already explained it but maybe an analogy would help.
Joe just graduated from high school. Joe is now prepared and able to go to college, but Joe doesn't want to go to college. He wants to remain in high school. But high school is no longer a challenge for Joe so he goes to the board of education and requests that there be optional college level classes of every subject high school teaches.
So the board of education says "What would it hurt? It would make Joe happy and why would anyone else be bothered by that?" But Joe didn't stop there. Joe went back to the board of education and said since he is doing college work he should be awarded a college degree. Why would anyone object to that?
Well they would object because Joe has an unfair advantage over all the other people who paid a lot of money for their college educations that Joe just got for basically free.
High school was never meant to be turned into a way to get a free college education. Overland and the base game was never meant to be turned into a way to do veteran content and reap veteran rewards.
Because overland is not the same as an instanced dungeon. Major story lines, a world to explore, those are what define overland. Dungeons are much smaller combat heavy instances that are much smaller than what the vast over world offers. Wanting to be able to actually feel like the stakes of a story are real with enemies who are a threat, or venturing into an ancient ruin to find dangerous creatures lurking in the darkness, those enhance the experience.
But when every npc you encounter says "it's the end of the world" and "we need to gather all the mcguffin muffins to have a chance of fighting the big bad", but you know full well the second you cross paths with him, he's as good as dead, that saps all sense of purpose out of the story for me and renders every quest into a fetch quest no matter the stakes. And when I go into the ancient ruin, and find the enemies are trying real hard not to offend me by attacking me too much, I lose any interest to explore these places. Ancient ruin? More like a haunted house at a theme park. These are the issues I personally take with overland, the quest fail to keep me invested and overland feels like a thin facade rather than a meaningful place to be.2 -
Supertonicbaker✭✭✭This thread is great. Chock full of comedy gold. It’s my go to to lift the spirits.0
This discussion has been closed.