QUESTS ARE JUST TOO EASY!

SilverBride

Iccotak wrote: »

...the idea that we’re so powerful that none of these big super bads (who are all in the trailers) are not a threat to us is frankly boring and disappointing.

Again if that’s your thing then good for you - we’re asking for our own separate story experience so then we can have an experience that we enjoy.

We are never going to see eye to eye on this, and it's been debated back and forth for several threads now. So rather than keep that going I presented some proposals that I feel would satisfy most of the players on either side of this debate.

I would appreciate if you would just spell out the particulars of how you would like this to be executed. Because honestly for myself it's not the idea I'm against as much as how it would be done, because it needs to remain fair to all.

CP5

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

...the idea that we’re so powerful that none of these big super bads (who are all in the trailers) are not a threat to us is frankly boring and disappointing.

Again if that’s your thing then good for you - we’re asking for our own separate story experience so then we can have an experience that we enjoy.

We are never going to see eye to eye on this, and it's been debated back and forth for several threads now. So rather than keep that going I presented some proposals that I feel would satisfy most of the players on either side of this debate.

I would appreciate if you would just spell out the particulars of how you would like this to be executed. Because honestly for myself it's not the idea I'm against as much as how it would be done, because it needs to remain fair to all.

Shortest write-up for what I would expect is:

Toggle option in whatever menu to activate veteran overland

You get ported to a separate instance with its own rule-set

Mobs in this instance have

• Slightly increased health and damage
• Significantly reduced cooldown on abilities
• Worthless abilities replaced with meaningful ones, with new skills added to flesh them out

That last point includes things like

• Healer mobs having no cooldown on their single target heal unless interrupted
• Heavy hitting mobs gaining far more damage on their channeled attacks to properly encourage blocking and dodging
• Conjurer mobs not summoning bubbles
• Tank mobs having the 'yeet self from battle' ability replaced with something like the shield bulwarks in kynes aegis have

Since many mobs are part of overarching 'classes', updating a single template would update many enemies, which if ZOS has a clean back end for this it would hopefully not be horribly time intensive to do, as for a per-encounter balance, leave it as is so every fight is different with different group compositions.

NoireJin the Witchking

SilverBride wrote: »

6Kyojin6 wrote: »

I literally beat the main story quest boss under 2-3 minutes (which was longer bc he had a stupid gamic of a mechanic that made him invulnerable so nothing engaging or intuitive) with only a helmet equipped, just weapons, a greatsword. I was level 13/15 with 0 CP points allocated.

And this is bad why? You are talking about the base game and story, not the final boss in a veteran trial. It is not going to be challenging. This is why veteran dungeons and trials and arenas were developed. That is where the challenge is and that is where the challenge should remain.

ESO is perfectly fine for the majority of its players just as it is. If this suggestion were to actually be implemented, optional or otherwise, there would be a lot of players leaving, many of whom are subscribers.

because i paid 50 dollars for a comprehensive gameplay, instead i got an average pretty zone, below average story like with unneeded *** of expositions and portals from point A and B. Its bad because you casual players aren't the only group that plays ESO and is entitled to have it your way, the game was literally changed from hard to easy. It didn't start of easy, therefore it amassed players who wanted hard content for stories. Does that make sense?

Psiion

Greetings all,

Once again, we would like to remind everyone to keep discussion within the Community Rules. Flaming, Baiting, and Conspiracy Theories are all against the ESO Forum's Community Rules, and simply non-constructive. We understand that disagreements occur, but we ask that posts stay respectful, as the Forums are intended to be a place for civil and constructive conversation.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

SilverBride

6Kyojin6 wrote: »

because i paid 50 dollars for a comprehensive gameplay, instead i got an average pretty zone, below average story like with unneeded *** of expositions and portals from point A and B. Its bad because you casual players aren't the only group that plays ESO and is entitled to have it your way, the game was literally changed from hard to easy. It didn't start of easy, therefore it amassed players who wanted hard content for stories. Does that make sense?

ESO attracted a lot of players who loved the Elder Scrolls games. It did not present itself as a hard mode game. No one knew how difficult the game would be until they got into it and encountered quest bosses that many were stuck on for days and veteran levels that were too difficult to be fun. So yes it was changed.

Like it or not, the majority of ESO players are not hard core end game players. As such, we prefer content we can enjoy. I cannot enjoy the story if I am constantly struggling with what should be easy quests.

That being said, I presented some options in an earlier post that I believe would be beneficial to all players.

Nestor

ThorianB wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

There is hard content in the game.

Its called Trials, Arenas and Vet Dungeons.

We are well aware. I don't think people are asking for hard content so much as to not make everything overland so ridiculously easy. Or at least give up options to how hard we want it. Give the One Tamriel mechanics already built in most of the hard work for this is already done. All that has to be done is adjust the bonus/penalties per character based on the difficulty we want.

I know what people are asking for. However, all that will happen is the numbers get skewed, do less damage and take more damage. What people really want are different levels of mechanics. That can't be done in a MMO.

I watch players all the time all over the game trading blows with mobs for extended periods of time. The Overland Content is fine for them. I also see players mow down the mobs.

Of course people can self gimp, suggesting that just stirs up people and their torches.

So, all you have left is to do the content that is hard if you want more of a challenge.

CP5

Nestor wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

There is hard content in the game.

Its called Trials, Arenas and Vet Dungeons.

We are well aware. I don't think people are asking for hard content so much as to not make everything overland so ridiculously easy. Or at least give up options to how hard we want it. Give the One Tamriel mechanics already built in most of the hard work for this is already done. All that has to be done is adjust the bonus/penalties per character based on the difficulty we want.

I know what people are asking for. However, all that will happen is the numbers get skewed, do less damage and take more damage. What people really want are different levels of mechanics. That can't be done in a MMO.

I watch players all the time all over the game trading blows with mobs for extended periods of time. The Overland Content is fine for them. I also see players mow down the mobs.

Of course people can self gimp, suggesting that just stirs up people and their torches.

So, all you have left is to do the content that is hard if you want more of a challenge.

But they do. Every dungeon and trial is done this way, every instance of Cyrodiil and IC is this way as well. When ESO first went live every overland zone had 3 instances at different level ranges, except for Cold Harbor which had 3 separate instance types depending on player faction but at the same level. They only need to use technology they already utilize on a daily basis to create an instance where enemies pose a threat, as I have mentioned how before.

SilverBride

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

...the idea that we’re so powerful that none of these big super bads (who are all in the trailers) are not a threat to us is frankly boring and disappointing.

Again if that’s your thing then good for you - we’re asking for our own separate story experience so then we can have an experience that we enjoy.

We are never going to see eye to eye on this, and it's been debated back and forth for several threads now. So rather than keep that going I presented some proposals that I feel would satisfy most of the players on either side of this debate.

I would appreciate if you would just spell out the particulars of how you would like this to be executed. Because honestly for myself it's not the idea I'm against as much as how it would be done, because it needs to remain fair to all.

Shortest write-up for what I would expect is:

Toggle option in whatever menu to activate veteran overland

You get ported to a separate instance with its own rule-set

Mobs in this instance have

• Slightly increased health and damage
• Significantly reduced cooldown on abilities
• Worthless abilities replaced with meaningful ones, with new skills added to flesh them out

That last point includes things like

• Healer mobs having no cooldown on their single target heal unless interrupted
• Heavy hitting mobs gaining far more damage on their channeled attacks to properly encourage blocking and dodging
• Conjurer mobs not summoning bubbles
• Tank mobs having the 'yeet self from battle' ability replaced with something like the shield bulwarks in kynes aegis have

Since many mobs are part of overarching 'classes', updating a single template would update many enemies, which if ZOS has a clean back end for this it would hopefully not be horribly time intensive to do, as for a per-encounter balance, leave it as is so every fight is different with different group compositions.

Thank you for a well presented proposal. It all sounds reasonable to me as long as the experience and rewards remain the same for both difficulties. This is important to me because it's the base story. It's not like dungeons and trials that have different difficulties with different rewards.

The base story is where players quest and level and find their initial gear. It should not offer an advantage to any groups just because they can handle more difficult content.

CP5

SilverBride wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

...the idea that we’re so powerful that none of these big super bads (who are all in the trailers) are not a threat to us is frankly boring and disappointing.

Again if that’s your thing then good for you - we’re asking for our own separate story experience so then we can have an experience that we enjoy.

We are never going to see eye to eye on this, and it's been debated back and forth for several threads now. So rather than keep that going I presented some proposals that I feel would satisfy most of the players on either side of this debate.

I would appreciate if you would just spell out the particulars of how you would like this to be executed. Because honestly for myself it's not the idea I'm against as much as how it would be done, because it needs to remain fair to all.

Shortest write-up for what I would expect is:

Toggle option in whatever menu to activate veteran overland

You get ported to a separate instance with its own rule-set

Mobs in this instance have

• Slightly increased health and damage
• Significantly reduced cooldown on abilities
• Worthless abilities replaced with meaningful ones, with new skills added to flesh them out

That last point includes things like

• Healer mobs having no cooldown on their single target heal unless interrupted
• Heavy hitting mobs gaining far more damage on their channeled attacks to properly encourage blocking and dodging
• Conjurer mobs not summoning bubbles
• Tank mobs having the 'yeet self from battle' ability replaced with something like the shield bulwarks in kynes aegis have

Since many mobs are part of overarching 'classes', updating a single template would update many enemies, which if ZOS has a clean back end for this it would hopefully not be horribly time intensive to do, as for a per-encounter balance, leave it as is so every fight is different with different group compositions.

Thank you for a well presented proposal. It all sounds reasonable to me as long as the experience and rewards remain the same for both difficulties. This is important to me because it's the base story. It's not like dungeons and trials that have different difficulties with different rewards.

The base story is where players quest and level and find their initial gear. It should not offer an advantage to any groups just because they can handle more difficult content.

I agree, like I said, if people were that determined for a specific piece of gear or to grind exp, they're much better off just running on normal, plus it cuts back on how many things would need to be changed.

SilverBride

CP5 wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Thank you for a well presented proposal. It all sounds reasonable to me as long as the experience and rewards remain the same for both difficulties. This is important to me because it's the base story. It's not like dungeons and trials that have different difficulties with different rewards.

The base story is where players quest and level and find their initial gear. It should not offer an advantage to any groups just because they can handle more difficult content.

I agree, like I said, if people were that determined for a specific piece of gear or to grind exp, they're much better off just running on normal, plus it cuts back on how many things would need to be changed.

Well then.

ThorianB

Nestor wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

There is hard content in the game.

Its called Trials, Arenas and Vet Dungeons.

We are well aware. I don't think people are asking for hard content so much as to not make everything overland so ridiculously easy. Or at least give up options to how hard we want it. Give the One Tamriel mechanics already built in most of the hard work for this is already done. All that has to be done is adjust the bonus/penalties per character based on the difficulty we want.

I know what people are asking for. However, all that will happen is the numbers get skewed, do less damage and take more damage. What people really want are different levels of mechanics. That can't be done in a MMO.

I watch players all the time all over the game trading blows with mobs for extended periods of time. The Overland Content is fine for them. I also see players mow down the mobs.

Of course people can self gimp, suggesting that just stirs up people and their torches.

So, all you have left is to do the content that is hard if you want more of a challenge.

It can actually be done and it wouldn't actually be as much work as one would think.

First,a blanket debuff can be done to the character. This would basically be, as i said, the newbie buff but in reverse so that you get a penalty. Your argument is that you can self gimp. This is true. But self gimping is not a good workaround. The gimper and gimpee are the same and thus there is a bias there. So it is hard to get it "balanced" whereas devs understand the game in ways we don't and would know how to apply penalties consistently and evenly. Second, the game is not set up to self Gimp. What do i do? use purple gear instead of gold? Blue ? green? maybe i only use random drops? Should i only use green food? should i use one bar only? No crafted pots? Etc.

We won't even get how do i do this uniformly with other gimpees so we arent over and under gimping in a group? Sure we can make the game more difficult this way but is also makes it more frustrating because its not a smooth and consistent debuff. ZOS has the power to make it smooth and consistent so that if i am playing at vet difficulty in overland and someone joins me who is also in that difficulty we have the same debuffs.

Second is a little more work on ZOS end( by a little i mean a lot). Let's say we have 3 difficulty levels. When i do a quest or kill a quest boss( or any mob when used with # 3 below), the game can check for a difficult flag:1,2, or 3. Based on what flag i have tells the game what NPC script to trigger( this sort of thing is already used heavily in games). This script tells the NPC how to behave. This is where different mechanics are enabled or disabled. Mechanics which make the boss harder. All we do is turn some mechanics off for easy mode. This would require the most work as it would require writing a script and building mechanics for each NPC we wanted to have this feature. But i would pay extra on top of my sub for this feature. Bump my sub to $18 a month to enable difficulty modes. Get 10,000 players like me that will pay an extra $3 a month for harder difficulty and you have a $30k/month scripting team budget.

Third, we already have multiple instances( channels) of the game world depending on how busy zones are. We could just have 3 different versions of the zones, using my 3 levels of difficulty. If you are set to easy, you spawn into the current version, Set to vet everything in the zone is Vet difficulty, set to elite everything in the zone is elite difficulty. If you want to change difficulties you just change it and then it prompts you to reload the zone for changes to take effect and it boots you to the correct instance.

So as you can see we have quite a few options to make this happen and not any of them are all that hard to do. Sure they will take more people, probably a small team to convert everything. But i bet a lot of players would pay $3 a month to fund making the game overall more difficulty. I know a few players that would replay all the story lines if they had harder difficulty.

BTW, i already have to make my single player games harder because the AI is terrible. It's no fun to gimp yourself and having to constantly give yourself a handicap so that the AI has a chance gets old fast. In some games i have even developed the AI's assets or equipment as if it were mine. So they could play on my level. I still had to gimp myself and i could essentially win anytime i wanted by removing the gimp.. This is like fighting with one hand behind your back. You realize that in order to win all you have to do is use both hands and then it is no longer a challenge because " i can win anytime i want". If ZOS sets the rules on difficulty then the only way to win is to beat the objective and do so by their rules. THAT is what makes it a challenge. Who wants to be the Dungeon Master and the players at the same time? Not anyone that wants a legit challenge.

Iccotak

To Add onto @CP5 solution

Bosses
Main Story Bosses now have a Normal/Veteran instance.
- Normal
- Veteran
- Veteran HM

Players can’t do the fight multiple times to experience the different difficulties.

Veteran Story Bosses have improved stats and mechanics. (Overhaul) they are Not as hard as a Trial but still has Challenge & Engaging gameplay.

It’s designed for solo but players can bring friends to fight it.

It still only drops zone gear with no increase in quality.
———————————————————
In Overland- World Bosses & Dolmens scale to more players in Veteran Zones.

SilverBride

Iccotak wrote: »

To Add onto @CP5 solution

Bosses
Main Story Bosses now have a Normal/Veteran instance.
- Normal
- Veteran
- Veteran HM

Players can’t do the fight multiple times to experience the different difficulties.

Veteran Story Bosses have improved stats and mechanics. (Overhaul) they are Not as hard as a Trial but still has Challenge & Engaging gameplay.

It’s designed for solo but players can bring friends to fight it.

It still only drops zone gear with no increase in quality.
———————————————————
In Overland- World Bosses & Dolmens scale to more players in Veteran Zones.

Thanks for the input. I'm not sure how I feel about bringing friends to fight the story boss but it's something to consider. Otherwise I find it fair to all players, which was a big concern for me.

My only hesitation is how much time and resources it would take to implement, and would this take away from other issues that need their attention right now?

amm7sb14_ESO

Nestor wrote: »

ThorianB wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

There is hard content in the game.

Its called Trials, Arenas and Vet Dungeons.

We are well aware. I don't think people are asking for hard content so much as to not make everything overland so ridiculously easy. Or at least give up options to how hard we want it. Give the One Tamriel mechanics already built in most of the hard work for this is already done. All that has to be done is adjust the bonus/penalties per character based on the difficulty we want.

I know what people are asking for. However, all that will happen is the numbers get skewed, do less damage and take more damage. What people really want are different levels of mechanics. That can't be done in a MMO.

I watch players all the time all over the game trading blows with mobs for extended periods of time. The Overland Content is fine for them. I also see players mow down the mobs.

Of course people can self gimp, suggesting that just stirs up people and their torches.

So, all you have left is to do the content that is hard if you want more of a challenge.

Different levels of mechanics can't be done in MMO's?

Different levels of mechanics is already done in ESO.

Also, why do people [snip] keep parroting the false "higher level gear" narrative. I have already clearly explained why that narrative is false, and not one person has addressed it, yet they continue to spout off that false narrative.

[Edited for Naming and Shaming]

fiender66

I admit that I don't know exactly what this "narrative of higher level gear" is nor why it should be false. However, I tried the following on PTS:

Build: 50 lvl breton magplar (64 mag points), only skills used channeled focus, puncture, reflective light. I used a quickly crafted Innate Axiom light set lvl 1 white, all armor with training, plus a light staff and gems. No CP, no food or drink, and, ofc, no companion.

With this one I performed the Vanus quest about the Oracle.
Surprise! Not only were the mobs harder to kill (I usually do this prologue quest around lvl 12, but have also done it sometimes after 50, for completeness), but they were endowed by a series of CC (hardly a new, but now it was WAY MORE evident) and evasion mechanics, that do not appear with a quick killing.
Who knows the quest may remember that at a certain point there is a mini boss Wraith-of-Crows, with evasion, execute, and some other gadget of its. It usually poses no problem, but this time things went differently, and I had to use every tactical skill, meanwhile managing my limited resources. In brief: 5 deaths in a row, and a killing in the nick of time.

All the above to say that there are simple ways to run the overland content in an engaging way. Mechanics and difficulties are often already there, but may be covered by CP's and even not-so-basic gear.

Maybe many have forgotten how it is to run Overland with a new toon, WITHOUT CP. Try it, is refreshing experience.

amm7sb14_ESO

fiender66 wrote: »

I admit that I don't know exactly what this "narrative of higher level gear" is nor why it should be false. However, I tried the following on PTS:

The false "higher level gear" narrative is that it would be unfair for someone to get higher level rewards from doing a vet instance of an overland quest.

But the narrative that you are talking about is also false, for reasons I have also addressed in this thread.

eternalshockcable

Try dungeons on Vet Hard mode.
Its the best.

Iccotak

SilverBride wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

To Add onto @CP5 solution

Bosses
Main Story Bosses now have a Normal/Veteran instance.
- Normal
- Veteran
- Veteran HM

Players can’t do the fight multiple times to experience the different difficulties.

Veteran Story Bosses have improved stats and mechanics. (Overhaul) they are Not as hard as a Trial but still has Challenge & Engaging gameplay.

It’s designed for solo but players can bring friends to fight it.

It still only drops zone gear with no increase in quality.
———————————————————
In Overland- World Bosses & Dolmens scale to more players in Veteran Zones.

Thanks for the input. I'm not sure how I feel about bringing friends to fight the story boss but it's something to consider. Otherwise I find it fair to all players, which was a big concern for me.

My only hesitation is how much time and resources it would take to implement, and would this take away from other issues that need their attention right now?

Right now in game, Except for Molag Bal, other players do show up in the story Boss fights.
That’s why I said bring a friend because you already can in game.
————————————
As for time and resources - I’m of the opinion that their will always be issues, fixes, balancing, implementation, etc etc. it’s an MMO - they have to do fixes, Quality of Life updates, and paid content all at once.

There’s always going to be things to add, update, and fix.
So the question is more so should this be a quality of life update or a paid feature.

SilverBride

Iccotak wrote: »

As for time and resources - I’m of the opinion that their will always be issues, fixes, balancing, implementation, etc etc. it’s an MMO - they have to do fixes, Quality of Life updates, and paid content all at once.

There’s always going to be things to add, update, and fix.
So the question is more so should this be a quality of life update or a paid feature.

How would they make this a paid feature? Part of ESO+? Something you buy in the crown store as a one time cost?

fiender66

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

fiender66 wrote: »

...

But the narrative that you are talking about is also false, for reasons I have also addressed in this thread.

Ehm... English is not my first language, so I'm in no position to lecture about wording.

That stated, you can say that my position is "wrong", or "incorrect". If you are using "false" in this sense, that's OK, no prob, but if you are implying that I'm deceiving somehow, the problem exist. Please clarify.

ThorianB

fiender66 wrote: »

I admit that I don't know exactly what this "narrative of higher level gear" is nor why it should be false. However, I tried the following on PTS:

Build: 50 lvl breton magplar (64 mag points), only skills used channeled focus, puncture, reflective light. I used a quickly crafted Innate Axiom light set lvl 1 white, all armor with training, plus a light staff and gems. No CP, no food or drink, and, ofc, no companion.

With this one I performed the Vanus quest about the Oracle.
Surprise! Not only were the mobs harder to kill (I usually do this prologue quest around lvl 12, but have also done it sometimes after 50, for completeness), but they were endowed by a series of CC (hardly a new, but now it was WAY MORE evident) and evasion mechanics, that do not appear with a quick killing.
Who knows the quest may remember that at a certain point there is a mini boss Wraith-of-Crows, with evasion, execute, and some other gadget of its. It usually poses no problem, but this time things went differently, and I had to use every tactical skill, meanwhile managing my limited resources. In brief: 5 deaths in a row, and a killing in the nick of time.

All the above to say that there are simple ways to run the overland content in an engaging way. Mechanics and difficulties are often already there, but may be covered by CP's and even not-so-basic gear.

Maybe many have forgotten how it is to run Overland with a new toon, WITHOUT CP. Try it, is refreshing experience.

Self gimping defeats the purpose. When you are the dungeon master and the player the challenge is fake. I will always either create a challenge that i know i can win or that i can't win. I also have the ability to adjust the challenge at any time which makes it fake.

Someone else needs to be dungeon master. Only then can the difficulty increase be authentic. Sure i can still beat the mobs but that isn't the point. The point is that i no longer control how hard they are to beat.

eternalshockcable wrote: »

Try dungeons on Vet Hard mode.
Its the best.

Except we arent talking about needing harder content to do. We are talking about making existing content have the option for players to make it harder. This is because current ( quest/overland) content is so easy it makes it dreadfully boring. We would like the option to make it a little more challenging because making the quests and stories a bit more challenging makes them more interesting for many of us. Also being able to nearly insta kill everything gets kind of boring. "Go do vet dungeons" is not a valid solution to the problem.

Biro123

fiender66 wrote: »

I admit that I don't know exactly what this "narrative of higher level gear" is nor why it should be false. However, I tried the following on PTS:

Build: 50 lvl breton magplar (64 mag points), only skills used channeled focus, puncture, reflective light. I used a quickly crafted Innate Axiom light set lvl 1 white, all armor with training, plus a light staff and gems. No CP, no food or drink, and, ofc, no companion.

With this one I performed the Vanus quest about the Oracle.
Surprise! Not only were the mobs harder to kill (I usually do this prologue quest around lvl 12, but have also done it sometimes after 50, for completeness), but they were endowed by a series of CC (hardly a new, but now it was WAY MORE evident) and evasion mechanics, that do not appear with a quick killing.
Who knows the quest may remember that at a certain point there is a mini boss Wraith-of-Crows, with evasion, execute, and some other gadget of its. It usually poses no problem, but this time things went differently, and I had to use every tactical skill, meanwhile managing my limited resources. In brief: 5 deaths in a row, and a killing in the nick of time.

All the above to say that there are simple ways to run the overland content in an engaging way. Mechanics and difficulties are often already there, but may be covered by CP's and even not-so-basic gear.

Maybe many have forgotten how it is to run Overland with a new toon, WITHOUT CP. Try it, is refreshing experience.

I just did, which is what's prompted me to comment here. I came back after a 3 year break. Made a new character on a new faction, and played as a new player, no cp spent, no food, pots or crafted gear. Only stuff that character found or was given as quest rewards. Still way to easy.
But if you know how the scaling works, wearing gear way below your level significantly weakens your character. Part of the game is progression, by getting better gear, so going naked loses a large part of the process of growing your character. A simple scaling slider to adjust how much your lowbie is buffed would be great.

amm7sb14_ESO

fiender66 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

fiender66 wrote: »

...

But the narrative that you are talking about is also false, for reasons I have also addressed in this thread.

Ehm... English is not my first language, so I'm in no position to lecture about wording.

That stated, you can say that my position is "wrong", or "incorrect". If you are using "false" in this sense, that's OK, no prob, but if you are implying that I'm deceiving somehow, the problem exist. Please clarify.

I am not implying that you are deceiving, no.

fiender66

Biro123 wrote: »

fiender66 wrote: »

I admit that I don't know exactly what this "narrative of higher level gear" is nor why it should be false. However, I tried the following on PTS:

Build: 50 lvl breton magplar (64 mag points), only skills used channeled focus, puncture, reflective light. I used a quickly crafted Innate Axiom light set lvl 1 white, all armor with training, plus a light staff and gems. No CP, no food or drink, and, ofc, no companion.

With this one I performed the Vanus quest about the Oracle.
Surprise! Not only were the mobs harder to kill (I usually do this prologue quest around lvl 12, but have also done it sometimes after 50, for completeness), but they were endowed by a series of CC (hardly a new, but now it was WAY MORE evident) and evasion mechanics, that do not appear with a quick killing.
Who knows the quest may remember that at a certain point there is a mini boss Wraith-of-Crows, with evasion, execute, and some other gadget of its. It usually poses no problem, but this time things went differently, and I had to use every tactical skill, meanwhile managing my limited resources. In brief: 5 deaths in a row, and a killing in the nick of time.

All the above to say that there are simple ways to run the overland content in an engaging way. Mechanics and difficulties are often already there, but may be covered by CP's and even not-so-basic gear.

Maybe many have forgotten how it is to run Overland with a new toon, WITHOUT CP. Try it, is refreshing experience.

I just did, which is what's prompted me to comment here. I came back after a 3 year break. Made a new character on a new faction, and played as a new player, no cp spent, no food, pots or crafted gear. Only stuff that character found or was given as quest rewards. Still way to easy.
But if you know how the scaling works, wearing gear way below your level significantly weakens your character. Part of the game is progression, by getting better gear, so going naked loses a large part of the process of growing your character. A simple scaling slider to adjust how much your lowbie is buffed would be great.

Well, maybe I misinterpret the game, but to me there is a progression from storyline quests to delves, to public dungeons to WB and dolmens and, in the end, to dungeons and trials. This along the progression of the char (skills, gear, Cp, etc).

Going to Overland as a mature toon may be fun, for your strength is obviously exceeding the task, but it is also something "unnatural", least you are not farming, say, Red Mountain in Stonefalls. But if you are farming, what's the advantage of loosing time in difficult tasks? Besides, there is already a modest progression along levels (number of mobs, health of bosses, etc).

All this asking for greater difficulty in Overland makes me imagine that one, already an adult, asks to return to Grammar School (for nostalgia, or whatever) but at the same time to have college contents there.

And as I said elsewhere in this same thread, humans (and Zos devs are surely humans) tend to adopt easier solutions. We all have seen how often nerf (an easy solution for sure) has been adopted to solve problems. Again: beware of what you are asking for...

cheriella

With this pvp event going on I realized that the mobs in cyrodil take longer to kill than the usual non pvp zone questing. Is that true or is it just me? (Yea it’s My first time experiencing pvp zones lol)

Ken_Koerperich

fiender66 wrote: »

I admit that I don't know exactly what this "narrative of higher level gear" is nor why it should be false. However, I tried the following on PTS:

Build: 50 lvl breton magplar (64 mag points), only skills used channeled focus, puncture, reflective light. I used a quickly crafted Innate Axiom light set lvl 1 white, all armor with training, plus a light staff and gems. No CP, no food or drink, and, ofc, no companion.

With this one I performed the Vanus quest about the Oracle.
Surprise! Not only were the mobs harder to kill (I usually do this prologue quest around lvl 12, but have also done it sometimes after 50, for completeness), but they were endowed by a series of CC (hardly a new, but now it was WAY MORE evident) and evasion mechanics, that do not appear with a quick killing.
Who knows the quest may remember that at a certain point there is a mini boss Wraith-of-Crows, with evasion, execute, and some other gadget of its. It usually poses no problem, but this time things went differently, and I had to use every tactical skill, meanwhile managing my limited resources. In brief: 5 deaths in a row, and a killing in the nick of time.

All the above to say that there are simple ways to run the overland content in an engaging way. Mechanics and difficulties are often already there, but may be covered by CP's and even not-so-basic gear.

Maybe many have forgotten how it is to run Overland with a new toon, WITHOUT CP. Try it, is refreshing experience.

Words right out of my mouth. Did this "quest" today, and got dropped 4 times before I beat the "CROW", and it was literally w/ a sliver of HP left.

Then, on to the next quest, I got laid flat on the "Boss" of said quest line twice before I figured out how to beat him...

Lv36 Khajiit Nightblade Dual Dagger, Non crafter as I'm still leveling it all up, wearing a "free" set of Training no bonus gear, w/ Lv30 Training, no bonus daggers that I had to "beg" a crafter for....

Every fight is a nail biter for 1) I'm new 2) Probably the worst NB build ever 3) Can't afford "GEAR" 4) Still on foot as mounts are expensive 5) Killing everything as I go 6) Returning to town every hour to dump because I have no space 7) Carrying tons of Soul Stones as I die ALOT....

Game is fine as is IMO...

Sorbin

Ken_Koerperich wrote: »

fiender66 wrote: »

I admit that I don't know exactly what this "narrative of higher level gear" is nor why it should be false. However, I tried the following on PTS:

Build: 50 lvl breton magplar (64 mag points), only skills used channeled focus, puncture, reflective light. I used a quickly crafted Innate Axiom light set lvl 1 white, all armor with training, plus a light staff and gems. No CP, no food or drink, and, ofc, no companion.

With this one I performed the Vanus quest about the Oracle.
Surprise! Not only were the mobs harder to kill (I usually do this prologue quest around lvl 12, but have also done it sometimes after 50, for completeness), but they were endowed by a series of CC (hardly a new, but now it was WAY MORE evident) and evasion mechanics, that do not appear with a quick killing.
Who knows the quest may remember that at a certain point there is a mini boss Wraith-of-Crows, with evasion, execute, and some other gadget of its. It usually poses no problem, but this time things went differently, and I had to use every tactical skill, meanwhile managing my limited resources. In brief: 5 deaths in a row, and a killing in the nick of time.

All the above to say that there are simple ways to run the overland content in an engaging way. Mechanics and difficulties are often already there, but may be covered by CP's and even not-so-basic gear.

Maybe many have forgotten how it is to run Overland with a new toon, WITHOUT CP. Try it, is refreshing experience.

Words right out of my mouth. Did this "quest" today, and got dropped 4 times before I beat the "CROW", and it was literally w/ a sliver of HP left.

Then, on to the next quest, I got laid flat on the "Boss" of said quest line twice before I figured out how to beat him...

Lv36 Khajiit Nightblade Dual Dagger, Non crafter as I'm still leveling it all up, wearing a "free" set of Training no bonus gear, w/ Lv30 Training, no bonus daggers that I had to "beg" a crafter for....

Every fight is a nail biter for 1) I'm new 2) Probably the worst NB build ever 3) Can't afford "GEAR" 4) Still on foot as mounts are expensive 5) Killing everything as I go 6) Returning to town every hour to dump because I have no space 7) Carrying tons of Soul Stones as I die ALOT....

Game is fine as is IMO...

If you haven't, go to Cyrodiil, do the introductory quest there. You don't have to actually PvP or do anything else, and the quest takes no time at all. You can even tell the NPC you'd like to skip it. You'll have the Assault and Support trees unlocked now. Spend 1 skill point on Vigor in the Assault tree. Slot it on one of your skill bars, front or back, doesn't matter. Whenever you start eating damage in a quest, use it.

Congratulations, you will never die in quest content again, regardless of gear.

Ken_Koerperich

Sorbin wrote: »

Ken_Koerperich wrote: »

fiender66 wrote: »

I admit that I don't know exactly what this "narrative of higher level gear" is nor why it should be false. However, I tried the following on PTS:

Build: 50 lvl breton magplar (64 mag points), only skills used channeled focus, puncture, reflective light. I used a quickly crafted Innate Axiom light set lvl 1 white, all armor with training, plus a light staff and gems. No CP, no food or drink, and, ofc, no companion.

With this one I performed the Vanus quest about the Oracle.
Surprise! Not only were the mobs harder to kill (I usually do this prologue quest around lvl 12, but have also done it sometimes after 50, for completeness), but they were endowed by a series of CC (hardly a new, but now it was WAY MORE evident) and evasion mechanics, that do not appear with a quick killing.
Who knows the quest may remember that at a certain point there is a mini boss Wraith-of-Crows, with evasion, execute, and some other gadget of its. It usually poses no problem, but this time things went differently, and I had to use every tactical skill, meanwhile managing my limited resources. In brief: 5 deaths in a row, and a killing in the nick of time.

All the above to say that there are simple ways to run the overland content in an engaging way. Mechanics and difficulties are often already there, but may be covered by CP's and even not-so-basic gear.

Maybe many have forgotten how it is to run Overland with a new toon, WITHOUT CP. Try it, is refreshing experience.

Words right out of my mouth. Did this "quest" today, and got dropped 4 times before I beat the "CROW", and it was literally w/ a sliver of HP left.

Then, on to the next quest, I got laid flat on the "Boss" of said quest line twice before I figured out how to beat him...

Lv36 Khajiit Nightblade Dual Dagger, Non crafter as I'm still leveling it all up, wearing a "free" set of Training no bonus gear, w/ Lv30 Training, no bonus daggers that I had to "beg" a crafter for....

Every fight is a nail biter for 1) I'm new 2) Probably the worst NB build ever 3) Can't afford "GEAR" 4) Still on foot as mounts are expensive 5) Killing everything as I go 6) Returning to town every hour to dump because I have no space 7) Carrying tons of Soul Stones as I die ALOT....

Game is fine as is IMO...

If you haven't, go to Cyrodiil, do the introductory quest there. You don't have to actually PvP or do anything else, and the quest takes no time at all. You can even tell the NPC you'd like to skip it. You'll have the Assault and Support trees unlocked now. Spend 1 skill point on Vigor in the Assault tree. Slot it on one of your skill bars, front or back, doesn't matter. Whenever you start eating damage in a quest, use it.

Congratulations, you will never die in quest content again, regardless of gear.

Will still die, console has to much delay on bar switching, or just plain fails to swap....

But when I figure out how to get there, and when I decide to go maybe. Long as it requires no PvP...

Sorbin

Ken_Koerperich wrote: »

Sorbin wrote: »

Ken_Koerperich wrote: »

fiender66 wrote: »

I admit that I don't know exactly what this "narrative of higher level gear" is nor why it should be false. However, I tried the following on PTS:

Build: 50 lvl breton magplar (64 mag points), only skills used channeled focus, puncture, reflective light. I used a quickly crafted Innate Axiom light set lvl 1 white, all armor with training, plus a light staff and gems. No CP, no food or drink, and, ofc, no companion.

With this one I performed the Vanus quest about the Oracle.
Surprise! Not only were the mobs harder to kill (I usually do this prologue quest around lvl 12, but have also done it sometimes after 50, for completeness), but they were endowed by a series of CC (hardly a new, but now it was WAY MORE evident) and evasion mechanics, that do not appear with a quick killing.
Who knows the quest may remember that at a certain point there is a mini boss Wraith-of-Crows, with evasion, execute, and some other gadget of its. It usually poses no problem, but this time things went differently, and I had to use every tactical skill, meanwhile managing my limited resources. In brief: 5 deaths in a row, and a killing in the nick of time.

All the above to say that there are simple ways to run the overland content in an engaging way. Mechanics and difficulties are often already there, but may be covered by CP's and even not-so-basic gear.

Maybe many have forgotten how it is to run Overland with a new toon, WITHOUT CP. Try it, is refreshing experience.

Words right out of my mouth. Did this "quest" today, and got dropped 4 times before I beat the "CROW", and it was literally w/ a sliver of HP left.

Then, on to the next quest, I got laid flat on the "Boss" of said quest line twice before I figured out how to beat him...

Lv36 Khajiit Nightblade Dual Dagger, Non crafter as I'm still leveling it all up, wearing a "free" set of Training no bonus gear, w/ Lv30 Training, no bonus daggers that I had to "beg" a crafter for....

Every fight is a nail biter for 1) I'm new 2) Probably the worst NB build ever 3) Can't afford "GEAR" 4) Still on foot as mounts are expensive 5) Killing everything as I go 6) Returning to town every hour to dump because I have no space 7) Carrying tons of Soul Stones as I die ALOT....

Game is fine as is IMO...

If you haven't, go to Cyrodiil, do the introductory quest there. You don't have to actually PvP or do anything else, and the quest takes no time at all. You can even tell the NPC you'd like to skip it. You'll have the Assault and Support trees unlocked now. Spend 1 skill point on Vigor in the Assault tree. Slot it on one of your skill bars, front or back, doesn't matter. Whenever you start eating damage in a quest, use it.

Congratulations, you will never die in quest content again, regardless of gear.

Will still die, console has to much delay on bar switching, or just plain fails to swap....

But when I figure out how to get there, and when I decide to go maybe. Long as it requires no PvP...

Yeah bar swaps lagging out are truly the great equalizer, there's no denying that xD

But yeah, Vigor on a stam character is a must when you're soloing, particularly when you want to tackle the harder stuff. And you don't have to PvP, just do the introductory quest in Cyrodiil, even tell the NPC you want to skip it and just get on with it, and boom, the skill will be right there under the Assault tree for 1 skill point.

Diminish

Ken_Koerperich wrote: »

Your opinion.

I feel they are just right.

Also, "MOST" players are not "NOOBS". They are Vets speed running through for EXP/CP as fast as they can. Every hear of the "guide" to Lv50 in less than 8 hours, and if you follow it, grinding hard, max CP in less than a week?

"guide" to Lv50 in less than 8 hours... That sounds like a terrible guide considering you can get to level 50 "somewhat" causally in ~4 hours, lol. The last character I leveled on console took 3.5 hours to level to CP, and get all the skill points I needed to comfortably PvP with the character. I recently switched to PC, and haven't done any hard grinding on my 1st character at all. I have around 2 days played time, and am around CP215 with mages guild at level 9, fighters guild level 10, scrying level 7, undaunted level 8, clothing/blacksmithing/woodworking maxed out (and skill points allotted). You can play somewhat casually, and still level out a character way faster than you should be able to imo.