THERE IS NO WAY 2 PEOPLE (vamps) SHOULD BE ABLE TO WIPE OUT AN ENTIRE ZERG
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jeradlub17_ESO✭✭✭Oh and on the silver bolts jibe... Really? It does crap damage and only has a 5% chance to proc and actually be useful against them. The morphs suck. I sure don't want to pull one closer to me and let it lifedrain me and splash damage on it isn't real useful unless it is a whole vamp pack and then you better run or get drained to death when they all drop ult at one time. It looks cool and might be fun to use having some neat effects but it is only 5% useful against a vamp.- Dallamar, Sorc, EP
- Krushim of KrushimTV on Youtube and Twitch
- https://www.youtube.com/c/KrushimTV
- http://www.twitch.tv/krushim2 -
SunfireKnight86✭✭✭✭ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »SunfireKnight86 wrote: »ThreeEyedCrow wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »I'll go over this quickly, but you can find the recipe elsewhere in this thread. You take a vampire dragon knight, the passives that reduce ultimate costs from DK, the vampire stage cost reduction, and mist form. With stage 4 vampirism, and the DK ultimate cost reduction, you end up with an ultimate that runs around 4 points. Which is extremely spamable. This makes for an almost impossible to kill panic button that can be fired off almost instantly.
This is incorrect information.
DK CANNOT get Ultimate down to 4 (Only Sorcs Vamps have that theoretical possibility).
DK DOES NOT have ultimate cost reduction.
I wish people actually looked up correct information before posting instead of spreading rumours that are passing as truth.
You should check yours, sir. There are people on this thread that have stated how they do it.
EDIT: Excuse me. You can get ult to 49 as a DK. With various ult gain abilities you can then fill it in about 3 AoE attacks. Just ran it by some friends. They can also get 180+% dmg reduction with these mechanics, essentially popping mist form to become unkillable. The vamp swarm is just an oh *** button that let's them heal when they are in mist form.
You're right. That's MUCH more balanced.
No one has posted exactly how to get to 4 Ulti as a DK because its impossible.
The only class that can get to 4 Ulti is Sorc because of the Sorc passive.
As a DK I know this because all I have to do is look at my skills and see there is no ultimate reduction.
Somebody incorrectly stated that DK can get to 4 Ulti and it has been repeated by many incorrectly.
Ultimate gains BTW are not the same and you clearly aren't a DK to know how our ultimate gains works. They work from the Earthen Heart tree (Mountain Bless) on only when activating Earthen Heart abilities. Every AOE and damage skill you see a DK use comes from Ardent Flame or Draconic Power trees. So no, your hypothetical with ultimate gains from AoE is not correct either.
Regardless, using ultimate reduction in the VAMPIRE SKILL LINE (like I stated)
along with ultimate reducing gear (Which YES, does exist) and then adding the ultimate gain abilities, you can pop ults almost constantly as a properly geared DK. Throw emperor on them with their huge ultimate gain and you have a DK that can throw ultimates every other move. Since their ultimates make them impossibly hard to kill and restores magicka, stamina, and health that's totally unbalanced. And then if something goes wrong just mist into a group, pop bats, and go back into mist to fully restore you health while being untargetable and almost invincible.
DK need a re-balance for PvP anyway, but when you combine it with the vamp skills they become godlike. Way more so than the sorcs even if they can pop ultimate more often. Why? Because I can squish a sorc. My single target DPS is magically delicious, (DPS bow NB vamp) and a sorc doesn't have the mitigation to stop it. They don't get 180% damage reduction; that's why DK are the focus of this thread. A DK with 4k health that only takes 15% normal damage after all it's reductions and can near constantly self heal while throwing down AoE and poping an ability that makes them immune to stuns is overpowered no matter how you slice it.
Lemme throw some math at you. 600 DMG ability, at only 15% of its normal damage, does 90 HP of actual damage. Wow. It's amazing that we haven't been killing them left and right. /eyeroll Hell, I couldn't hit him with that if he went mist form, and as a single target damage dealer my AoE is less than ideal. (IE Terrible)
All you people who think that fire will kill a vamp faster are clearly not above v5. Those jewel enchants make it so that vamps take less fire damage than people- A lot less. I only have 3k fire resist and I take more damage from melee hits as a NB that I take from fire. And that stun from silver bolts nobody will shut up about? That can be mitigated by abilities, not to mention you can't hit a mist form vamp with it since you can't target them. The only reliable CC is the fear you get from circle of protection, but that can be mitigated as well. Vamps have no weaknesses that everyone else doesn't have after a few fire resist enchants since fighters guild abilities largely suck.
The only fighters guild ability that helps is the passive that gives an extra 9% dmg, and that is mitigated into nothing by DK and the 50% mitigation vamps get anyway. (Not to mention mist form again)Edited by SunfireKnight86 on April 25, 2014 9:07PM2 -
Inzababa✭✭✭btw to those who were wondering, vamps can also carry scroll and hold it in mist form......
edit: just happened this morningEdited by Inzababa on April 26, 2014 9:00AMResistance is FUtilezCivilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Resistance is FUtilez3 -
Bonzi✭Dude is just driving an F1 formula mist form with a scroll, can't target him and he's faster then light
WOW JUST WOW! 2 -
Inzababa✭✭✭ok so here's another scenario just so some people get the idea :
You're defending a keep with like 2 or 3 groups, you set up flaming oil at strategic spots.
Most of the time, the enemy rushes in you flame them and take away half of their forces before they even get to you.
Now with vampires, they rush in in mist form (even if you pour flaming oil on them it does nothing), they go up the stairs, wipe EVERYONE (just 2 or 3 guys, 1 or 2 vamps), then the zerg nabs run in...
Peopole say stay out of melee range, yeh that works, when you can, but on the top floor of a bridge or a keep or outpost, where you wana run? Assuming even that you get out of the CCs and have enough stamina left.
one more time..
THIS IS FACKING ***Resistance is FUtilezCivilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Resistance is FUtilez0 -
Valfodr✭Too much crap posting from people who don't have a clue to be brutally honest.
The only thing truly OP about this ability combo is the ultimate gain from using bat swarm itself. If there was no ultimate gained while bat swarm was activated, this ability combination would be relatively balanced.
To keep it simple the combo is : Mist form - which makes you immune to CC and 75% damage reduction, in addition to the scaling -->50% reduction from vamp passive;
Combined with Bat Swarm which lifesteals 100% of the aoe damage it makes in 5 secods. Unless you morph it to gain invisibility (in which case you can still get spellvamp with sorceror to activate this temporary godmode)
The combo is only particularly OP when it used on players who don't know to avoid / escape its range or when it's used in a lag-fest zerg v zerg.
Used in the middle of zergs, it can be chained endlessly; it does so much damage that by the time the 5 seconds of bat swarm is down it can be recast. Several times I have watched ONE vampire kill 10+ players and there's nothing you can do except wait for him to run out of nubs to farm lol. In that instance, he had batswarm chained for probably 25 seconds, or 5 casts.Edited by Valfodr on April 26, 2014 6:19PM3 -
Inzababa✭✭✭I agree except that it's not always easy to get out his way, particular when you're sieging etc
Anyway it's much worse now cause if 1 vamp taking down big groups is OP, try 2 or 3 vamps + healer or more, it makes the whole group vs group encounters unbalancedResistance is FUtilezCivilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Resistance is FUtilez0 -
Inzababa✭✭✭I'm gona bump this thread until I get banned or it gets closed or something, but this is game breaking not only for me but for most of my guild..
Half of my guys aren't pvping anymore because of this and a few are even taking a break, going to Arch Age cause the beta has started.Resistance is FUtilezCivilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Resistance is FUtilez0 -
Inzababa✭✭✭bump
raids wiping while sieging to 1 or 2 vampires
people quitting the game now or pvp entirelyResistance is FUtilezCivilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Resistance is FUtilez0 -
Noobie✭✭This will definantly be getting looked at if not this game will fail like warhammer and the bright wizards fiasco. For those defending the ultimate reduction and all the broken aspects of vampirism they are all vampires themselves and dont want to lose their PvP power so just ignore them. Silver bolts is pretty damn useless im VR 6 and sometimes i take 75% from a vampire they just mistform away and heal, only time you can kill them with silver bolts is sneak attack > silverbolt> then 1 hard hit and hopefully their dead. As for the Broken talons DK's and Batswarm there is no counter just hope your not in range of the broken talons.
I want to add Sneak attack > silver > 1 hard hit you are pretty much dead because that vamp has a friend somewhere close by who is also a vamp go figure.Edited by Noobie on April 27, 2014 2:46PM2 -
Evergreen✭✭✭bump
raids wiping while sieging to 1 or 2 vampires
people quitting the game now or pvp entirely
Dragon Knight Vampires with Dark Talons are the problem and this is not being fixed next patch but actually made worse with a buff to Dark Talons. Dark Talons is what makes the vampire skill Bat Swarm so deadly. Dark Talons in itself is the most overpowered CC skill I've ever encountered in any pvp situation from my years playing these kind of games.
This is how Dark Talons works in a pvp situation. Dark Talons is an 8 meter radius immobilizing smart DoT AoE which a dodge roll does not take you out of range so the Dragon Knight in pvp just casts it again allowing an ability like Bat Swarm and his teamates to utterly destroy you and your group before you even have a chance to act. Being a smart AoE, the Dragon Knight doesn't have to aim like a Sorc does with their CC Encase. Dark Talons is the reason that the Dragon Knight vampires with Batswarm are insanely overpowered.
Dark Talons cannot be blocked, CC broken or prevented with CC immunity skill like Immovable. You will see in the next patch that Dark Talons is getting a buff instead of being balanced!
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Viverim✭✭revanghost wrote: »but if the player is using the mechanics in the game, maybe it's not an exploit,
Not finished the thread yet (11 pages.. yeesh! ), but I have to chime in here. And exploit is, by definition, using in game mechanics to achieve an outcome that is contrary to the designed intention of the game. There is no way possible that the designers intended for one person to overwhelm large groups. Finding an in-game mechanic which allows this outcome, while technically a 'legal' way of playing, is still an exploit.
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Evergreen✭✭✭revanghost wrote: »but if the player is using the mechanics in the game, maybe it's not an exploit,
Not finished the thread yet (11 pages.. yeesh! ), but I have to chime in here. And exploit is, by definition, using in game mechanics to achieve an outcome that is contrary to the designed intention of the game. There is no way possible that the designers intended for one person to overwhelm large groups. Finding an in-game mechanic which allows this outcome, while technically a 'legal' way of playing, is still an exploit.
Agree and Dragon Knights don't even need Batswarm to abuse the overpowered synergy of Dark Talons with any AoE.0 -
blackwolf7✭✭✭Actually its neither the reduction cost nor the batswarm that is op.
Its the mistform. I suggest lowering the dmg taken frlm 75 to
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Inzababa✭✭✭I don't care what is op
VAMP wiping out RAIDS is RE TAR DED
pvp is broken @ Cyrodiil cause it gets worse every day and people just QUITResistance is FUtilezCivilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Resistance is FUtilez2 -
pts patch notes are capping aoes to 6 targets so batswarm can only get healing from 6 people. They should not cap the targets. They should look at the reason someone can endlessly spam the best ability on your bar. When in most cases you cant cast a good spell more then 6 times before running out of steam. Should also stop healing from batswarm while in mist form. Vampire skill tree its self is not op its bugged.0
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blackwolf7✭✭✭I don't care what is op
VAMP wiping out RAIDS is RE TAR DED
pvp is broken @ Cyrodiil cause it gets worse every day and people just QUIT
Then make a vamp and see for yourself if you can wipe raids or not.
Seriously if people are saying vamps can wipe raid without effort im surprise that no one is copying it.
Ive seen a lot of vamps running around and can only witness a few who can wipe out raidgroups and most of them are overgeared and vr
Im guessing that it still takes a considerable amount of skill to play vamp. And if it takes skill then it doesnt mean it is op.
Now, if a normal vamp person can wipe raid groups that will be a different subject. It is indeed op but currently theres no evidence of that.2 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭revanghost wrote: »but if the player is using the mechanics in the game, maybe it's not an exploit,
Not finished the thread yet (11 pages.. yeesh! ), but I have to chime in here. And exploit is, by definition, using in game mechanics to achieve an outcome that is contrary to the designed intention of the game. There is no way possible that the designers intended for one person to overwhelm large groups. Finding an in-game mechanic which allows this outcome, while technically a 'legal' way of playing, is still an exploit.
Agreed, there is no way in hell any gaming developer would intentionally create a build that allows you to tank 30 players (while killing a good few on the way).
No build should require a counter where multiple raids have to stay at range from one single player, to avoid wiping.
It's a design flaw. They most likely didn't do proper calculation over how certain skills lines, passives and armour types would synchronize with each other.
Guessing it needs more than a quick hotfix, to avoid mistakes and hasty nerfs of the wrong things.
But it will most certainly get fixed, hopefully before to many impatient people ragequit.
Other than that, the L2P guys...
They actually think you shouldn't have to create an entire action bar and level up a full skill line, only to counter one player lol? I don't need to do that when facing werewolf's, mage guild players, Templars etc etc. Why should bat swarming DK/sorc's with free ulti spam be special snowflakes?
I don't have room to sacrifice my limited action bar space to counter one player. It's not a realistic demand when the game only allows me to bind 10 skills and 2 ultis. Rearranging your skills every other minute, during a fight, is not very convenient.1 -
Inzababa✭✭✭blackwolf7 wrote: »I don't care what is op
VAMP wiping out RAIDS is RE TAR DED
pvp is broken @ Cyrodiil cause it gets worse every day and people just QUIT
Then make a vamp and see for yourself if you can wipe raids or not.
Seriously if people are saying vamps can wipe raid without effort im surprise that no one is copying it.
Ive seen a lot of vamps running around and can only witness a few who can wipe out raidgroups and most of them are overgeared and vr
Im guessing that it still takes a considerable amount of skill to play vamp. And if it takes skill then it doesnt mean it is op.
Now, if a normal vamp person can wipe raid groups that will be a different subject. It is indeed op but currently theres no evidence of that.
DUDE
EVERYONE is copying it now, you can't siege anything without a bunch of vamps wiping your raid, that's what I meant by "it's getting worse every day"
its facking VAMPIRES ONLINE now..Resistance is FUtilezCivilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
Resistance is FUtilez3 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other than that, the L2P guys...
They actually think you shouldn't have to create an entire action bar and level up a full skill line, only to counter one player lol? I don't need to do that when facing werewolf's, mage guild players, Templars etc etc. Why should bat swarming DK/sorc's with free ulti spam be special snowflakes?
From what I've seen, the L2P guys fall into 3 categories.
Players that don't PvP and just spout off the default "weaknesses" for Vampires, sometimes without the ability to understand that these don't apply to this build.
Players that don't understand the build, and think you're talking about intended behavior. (Also, who don't PvP at this point.)
And players who are running Vampire/DK builds and taking full advantage of this system, and secretly cry themselves to sleep at night every time someone uses the word "nerf."3 -
Mendoze✭✭✭Current situation is totally ***, and if this is not fixed really soon, lots of people are going leave or stop pvp. Do the devs ever really play this game, because 15 mins in cyrodiil would show them what the situation is now? But unfortunately money is only thing that wakes them up, and when half of the population leaves because of broken mechanics, it's usually already too late. When people have left, it's really hard to get them to come back.3 -
Evergreen✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
And players who are running Vampire/DK builds and taking full advantage of this system, and secretly cry themselves to sleep at night every time someone uses the word "nerf."
Indeed and everyone would have more fun playing fairly without one class having obvious advantages over others I would assume.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
And players who are running Vampire/DK builds and taking full advantage of this system, and secretly cry themselves to sleep at night every time someone uses the word "nerf."
Indeed and everyone would have more fun playing fairly without one class having obvious advantages over others I would assume.
I think you mean "everyone else", the guys breaking Vampire/DK are probably having the time of their life "pwnin' nubs", as they say. Or they were before the Batpires became so common.1 -
wayfarerb14_ESO✭✭✭As a vamp, I just wanted to chime in and say that it does take some skill and planning to play as a vamp. I'm level 48 and I get slaughtered in PvP if I don't watch the health bar.
If I allow myself to get to stage 4 vampirism, my health regeneration goes down by 75%. That means that without buffs, I can regen 8 health every 2 seconds. Even with buffs, my regen isn't as good as a non-vamp. And no, I'm not one to stack everything possible to get one trait mitigated- buffing one aspect to leave the rest vulnerable does not sound like a good idea to me.
After reading this thread, I tested out the casting ultimate while in mist form while in pve and I could not get it to work like this thread suggested. In mist form, vamps cannot take any healing, nor can they cast anything. If some people are able to cast while in mist form or manage to take some sort of healing, then yes, that needs to be addressed. Just curious, though: did it only appear that they were casting while in mist form? The effect only lasts 3 or 4 seconds (I can't remember). When I tested it in pve, bat swarm went off only after I came out of mist form.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭wayfarerb14_ESO wrote: »As a vamp, I just wanted to chime in and say that it does take some skill and planning to play as a vamp. I'm level 48 and I get slaughtered in PvP if I don't watch the health bar.
If I allow myself to get to stage 4 vampirism, my health regeneration goes down by 75%. That means that without buffs, I can regen 8 health every 2 seconds. Even with buffs, my regen isn't as good as a non-vamp. And no, I'm not one to stack everything possible to get one trait mitigated- buffing one aspect to leave the rest vulnerable does not sound like a good idea to me.
After reading this thread, I tested out the casting ultimate while in mist form while in pve and I could not get it to work like this thread suggested. In mist form, vamps cannot take any healing, nor can they cast anything. If some people are able to cast while in mist form or manage to take some sort of healing, then yes, that needs to be addressed. Just curious, though: did it only appear that they were casting while in mist form? The effect only lasts 3 or 4 seconds (I can't remember). When I tested it in pve, bat swarm went off only after I came out of mist form.
I believe they are firing off Broken Talons, then Swarm, then misting.1 -
wayfarerb14_ESO✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
I believe they are firing off Broken Talons, then Swarm, then misting.
I see. Well, I can't test that since I'm not a DK. Even still, all healing should stop once they mist. I can see them healing up to that point, but not while in mist form, unless there's a bug.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Talons is just to hold their victims in place for Swarm, so they can't book it. Swarm apparently does heal through Mist with one of the morphs, and builds ultimate, when combined with the ultimate cost reducers, that trio becomes an infinite murder loop.wayfarerb14_ESO wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »
I believe they are firing off Broken Talons, then Swarm, then misting.
I see. Well, I can't test that since I'm not a DK. Even still, all healing should stop once they mist. I can see them healing up to that point, but not while in mist form, unless there's a bug.2 -
Mendoze✭✭✭After reading some more comments, that idea that swarm would not generate ultimate sounds the right one. That way it could not be possible to chain ultimate entire groups, but instead you have to come out of mistform and do some actual fighting to get more ultimate. I can live with it that more advanced players have lower requirements for ultimate, or that they gather it faster, but current system is just broken. And like others have said it before, it gets worse every day.Edited by Mendoze on April 27, 2014 8:36PM1
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The_Drexill✭✭✭✭In the end, all of us know that Mist Form needs to be toned down, and Vampires need to be nerfed to some extent. It doesn't need to be huge, but they probably do need to take more Fire damage still.
Fighter's guild abilities need a big PvP buff. If we could Silverbolt the Edward zerg and mow them down like we should... this would work itself out. Risk/reward.Brandizzle - NB
Drexill The Unbreakable - Sorc
For teh covenant.0 -
Thevenin✭✭Just as a reminder,
Warhammer online developper, the last game focused on RvR before guild wars 2, left a few broken skills get exploited to death by minmaxers and powergamers, to the point where players felt useless if they weren't running those exact builds (and getting their nolife gear). And, guess what, the game was a huge fail and shut down a few months ago.
If ZOS leaves the door open, powergamers WILL exploit the life out of unbalanced mechanisms, and WILL drive everyone else from Cyrodiil, and most likely the game.Edited by Thevenin on April 27, 2014 9:41PM2