THERE IS NO WAY 2 PEOPLE (vamps) SHOULD BE ABLE TO WIPE OUT AN ENTIRE ZERG

Evergreen

Sakiri wrote: »

Evergreen wrote: »

Xandarth79 wrote: »

I'm not a vamp so am not involved in the exploiting - but I hope this doesn't go the way the RIFT Voidknight did when it was bugged which sounds like it fairly close to the same problem.

Exploiting is probably a harsh word but I am taking advantage of in game calss/skill mechanics that are overpowered. GreenDragonBlood, reflective scales, mist&vamp ultimate are skills that just work too well together but its not an exploit to use them.

Mist form = no healing received. Ultimate = healing.

Using ultimate with mist form is SUPPOSED to = no healing due to mist form, but theyre getting healed anyway. With a 75% damage reduction up.

Smells like bug. And taking advantage of a bug is exploiting.. erm, "clever use of game mechanics".

Fine if Zenimax warns us not to use the skill or better yet disables the ability so be it. So many skills are bugged right now or have a vague description that its hard to sort it all out. The Nightblade for example has the most broken skills in the game Comprehensive list of bugged Nightblade skills

I'd be happy to play my Nightblade again if it was fixed but right now in pvp DragonKnight with Greendragonblood, relfective scales, sword & board is the optimal way to go. Throw in the vampire skills and you have a demigod. In pve I play what is fun to play but in pvp every legitimate edge you can get counts

ZakyUchiha

Personally I think the skills are OP, as there are basically almost none restrictions and can make you invulnerable for a very long time and wipe out entire zergs.
How I imagine they can balance this, is to set limits on how much an ultimate skill can be reduced to, so it can't be abused as much. And reduce the healing per hit / target if there are over x number of targets.
I believe the developers had no intention to make this build as it is way too OP.

Inzababa

it is SO frustrating, every time we get close to an important objective (like taking a scroll), super vamp jumps in and wipes us all.

Since I made this OP I've seen loads of different situations and we've tried a ton of different strats, the only thing that sort of works is getting the *** out the way but then the vamp just charges, stuns, roots and heals anyway.

If really everyone gets out the way he/she mists and you can't even catch him/her on a sprinting horse.

Klimarov

i Don't think that unprepared zerg, without silver bolts should even touch vampires at night. Night is Vampire time, didn't you know they were immortal and only holy water and silver can damage them.

codyyoungnub18_ESO

Inzababa wrote: »

it is SO frustrating, every time we get close to an important objective (like taking a scroll), super vamp jumps in and wipes us all.

Since I made this OP I've seen loads of different situations and we've tried a ton of different strats, the only thing that sort of works is getting the *** out the way but then the vamp just charges, stuns, roots and heals anyway.

If really everyone gets out the way he/she mists and you can't even catch him/her on a sprinting horse.

Not saying it doesn't need toned down, but common all those people and not one circle of prot with fear undead dropped on her? seriously?

Uncoordinated zergs do deserve to die to highly skilled elite small man teams imo. But I promise you as soon as those 5 skilled players do it there will be a floodgate of tears on this forums even though it's a l2p issue because that zerg had the same skills available.

Inzababa

codyyoungnub18_ESO wrote: »

Inzababa wrote: »

it is SO frustrating, every time we get close to an important objective (like taking a scroll), super vamp jumps in and wipes us all.

Since I made this OP I've seen loads of different situations and we've tried a ton of different strats, the only thing that sort of works is getting the *** out the way but then the vamp just charges, stuns, roots and heals anyway.

If really everyone gets out the way he/she mists and you can't even catch him/her on a sprinting horse.

Not saying it doesn't need toned down, but common all those people and not one circle of prot with fear undead dropped on her? seriously?

Uncoordinated zergs do deserve to die to highly skilled elite small man teams imo. But I promise you as soon as those 5 skilled players do it there will be a floodgate of tears on this forums even though it's a l2p issue because that zerg had the same skills available.

no, last time it happened we were just destroying main door on enemy inner wall, about to rush in to take scroll when someone shouted "vampire" on ts and a second later we were all dead...

the time before I just sat down and watched 3x more people than in this video get wiped, it's just out of order

TurkeyBurgers

I think the ESO boat has struck a massive iceburg and is taking on water.

This ship is sinking fast down into the free to play ocean.

Soon we shall hit the bottom and be next to SWTOR.

Medwin

So there is an AoE and the zerg just stands in it... woooow.

Evergreen

Medwin wrote: »

So there is an AoE and the zerg just stands in it... woooow.

What is really funny are the smart ones who get out of the AoE and try to down you at range while you pop reflective scales. DragonKnight Vampires ... the lols

SwampRaider

Evergreen wrote: »

Medwin wrote: »

So there is an AoE and the zerg just stands in it... woooow.

What is really funny are the smart ones who get out of the AoE and try to down you at range while you pop reflective scales. DragonKnight Vampires ... the lols

I want EVERYONE to pay attention to this. My group was smart enough (the second time) to dodge roll out of the bat swarm/talons spam. but we still got owned anyway from reflective scales.

No matter how many Venom arrows, stone fists/ javelins/Destructive reaches, we used, this vamp DK Emperor would not get interruped/knocked down, and basically survived long enough through our kiting to have her 100+ zerg fest rescue her.

Every time we get close to taking a keep, getting a scroll..a voice in TS yells VAMP DK EMPRESS!!! and we either run and hide, die, or survive long enough to get zerged by her compatriots.

Skullcrusher is not a fun place to be, even as a 20 man hardcore organized PVP group that has played together since beta.

dw0011nrb19_ESO

Carde wrote: »

Nobody knows how to use fire ballistas or anything?

Do you really think a zerg possibly full of ex-skyrim players know how to play PvP effectively? Those two vampires surely knew how to.

Oh boy do I know who they are because they play efficiently. And it has nothing to do with "vampire" in general, just a bugged ultimate that needs it's cost to be addressed. 4 Ultimate to pop, it costs. Yes, four = F.O.U.R = 4 = quatro = vier = quatre Ultimate to activate.

This game truly is broken beyond believe.

wingnamrwb17_ESO

Its a op stacking mechanic however it is also a l2p problem for 50 ppl. When 50 ppl standing around him. You are providing him with unlimited suppkies of health pool. Get out of aoe for god sake.

NTclaymore

So something thing the zerg just stands there? DKs can use Dark Talons to keep them in place. You cant run. You can just stand there and watch while your hp feeds the Vampire. She ofcuz has one of the many options to prevent knockbacks and stuns. Do ppl think the empress just stands around doing nothing but spamming the ult and never had countermeasures to deal less mindless zergs? And after all the trouble we had with Vamps doing this you Guys rly think no one tried to fire a silver bolt? We tried it allready and it doesnt work. Some rebalancing needs to be done

NekOnOkO

Funny to see theorycrafters (obviously not playing RvR at all) claming this broken thing is "ok" because of *insert stupid reason* or saying that it's just one person (emperor). Ffs, enter Cyrodiil and witness "The elder vamires online". Every third person is DK\Sorc vampire. The only good thing is that soon only vampires will be left to fight vampires spamming 2 buttons. PvP in all its glory. And the fix is really simple: No healing in mistform from any source, no casting in mistform.

starkerealm

NekOnOkO wrote: »

Funny to see theorycrafters (obviously not playing RvR at all) claming this broken thing is "ok" because of *insert stupid reason* or saying that it's just one person (emperor). Ffs, enter Cyrodiil and witness "The elder vamires online". Every third person is DK\Sorc vampire. The only good thing is that soon only vampires will be left to fight vampires spamming 2 buttons. PvP in all its glory. And the fix is really simple: No healing in mistform from any source, no casting in mistform.

Also, Mistform causes you to instantly drop the scroll you're carrying, or scrolls prevent mistform from firing.

Kn1ghtmare

Simple solution to all of this, don't allow people to use Vampire or Werewolf in PVP, there problem solved, restrict it to PVE only, you know you want to Dev's, it would make all these headaches and fixes just fly away.

Vitho

I like it!
Mindless zergs destroi PvP in GW2.
ESO is less bashing more `art of war` i hope for a PvP with tactic against everything.(more CC, Splitpush, lures ...)
The 2 things we need are:
1. a more stable cc break, cc imune after break to escape the bats
2. a better way to detect stealth enemys like magelight just better to have backup grps searching for enemys around the zerg or eso becomes a hide and seek game. a vamp spotted befor entering the zerg is no threat.
3. a smart zerg(lol) who use firewalls and sorc prisons for example against vamps

OT: but if u are still sick of pvp in eso make a break read `the art of war` play some moba and maybe u start to rethink ur tactics

wingnamrwb17_ESO

Sakiri wrote: »

Evergreen wrote: »

Xandarth79 wrote: »

I'm not a vamp so am not involved in the exploiting - but I hope this doesn't go the way the RIFT Voidknight did when it was bugged which sounds like it fairly close to the same problem.

Exploiting is probably a harsh word but I am taking advantage of in game calss/skill mechanics that are overpowered. GreenDragonBlood, reflective scales, mist&vamp ultimate are skills that just work too well together but its not an exploit to use them.

Mist form = no healing received. Ultimate = healing.

Using ultimate with mist form is SUPPOSED to = no healing due to mist form, but theyre getting healed anyway. With a 75% damage reduction up.

Smells like bug. And taking advantage of a bug is exploiting.. erm, "clever use of game mechanics".

Devouring swarm is not healing. It is life drain. You cannot cast anything in Mistform already. Casting ultimate during mist form is probably a bug. Casted Devouring Swarm and then pop up mist form is working as intended.


The problem right now is the unbelievable stacking of cost reduce on ultimate. However, blindly reducing any of the individual cost reduction would gimp other build.

kamohs212eb17_ESO

50 ppl zerg, everyone with Silver Bolts and you cant kill some vampires by focus fire? Lol.

Also, in PvE, even in undead/daedric dungeons Silver Bolts is rarely used skill. Why would melee/ranger/mage/healer/Santa Clause/Batman/Templar/rogue put Silver Bolts in one of 5 slot when you can yell "FOR AZURA!!!" and die instead of ambush entire zerg by SB spam? Dunno, maybe i'm the one and only NB with Silver Bolts who get Stamina cap every single level and put all other attributes in mana.

Hymzir

I get the feeling that all the people defending the build and screaming "learn to play", are people who play this broken build or have never actually seen it in action.

Fire is not a solution, since anyone playing as a vampire, with a half a brain cell, will be using tons of fire protection enchants. Silverbolts can also be mitigated, and again, the vamp players do just that.

Killing a vamp emp is not impossible. I have been part of a pack twice that managed to kill the emp in the vid posted on this thread. Both times happened between keeps, when we encountered the vamp emp alone. Both times took a long time and both times the emp killed scores of our guys. And we used fire, and bolts and kept our distance. But I've also seen how several of these frays end up with the vamp emp escaping, by using the insane speed and evasion the build provides. When they realize that their foes are being smart, they just slip away and disappear. So fighting it is really frustrating.

I also know that many have beaten a vamp emp in 1 on 1. And that it is actually a lot easier in such a situation. But that is the nature of 1 on 1. If you build for it, you will obviously dominate it. And the vamp emp is not a 1 on 1 build.

The real problem is when a vamp emp is supported by it's own zerg. And this happens when they either attack or defend a keep. Zergs themselves happen because there is strength in numbers. But vamp emp reverses that equation. To fight it you must keep your distance, to spread out, to disperse your own zerg. And then you will be run over by the zerg that follows the vamp emp.

So to reiterate: What happens during sieges is that if you keep together, the vamp emp will slay you, if you keep your distance, you will end up spread out and the enemy zerg eats you.

Either way, there is nothing you can really do about it. Except to spam your own vamps, or devote your whole build for vampire slaying. And yeah, I did not sign up to play vampires online.

The biggest issue I have with this build is that it totally negates a large swath of otherwise viable builds. And the slogan for this game was after all - play the way you want. Every option was supposed to be valid. Every option might not be ideal in every situation, and sometimes you will encounter a foe who is perfectly optimized to destroy your build, but I'm fine with that. That's the game working as intended. At the moment, however, we are only a month in to the game, and we already have the one true build syndrome happening. And that is not the game working as intended, so obviously there is something wrong with this build!

Gwarok

Insightful post @Hymzir

Hymzir wrote: »

Killing a vamp emp is not impossible. I have been part of a pack twice that managed to kill the emp in the vid posted on this thread. Both times happened between keeps, when we encountered the vamp emp alone. Both times took a long time and both times the emp killed scores of our guys. And we used fire, and bolts and kept our distance. But I've also seen how several of these frays end up with the vamp emp escaping, by using the insane speed and evasion the build provides. When they realize that their foes are being smart, they just slip away and disappear. So fighting it is really frustrating.

I also know that many have beaten a vamp emp in 1 on 1. And that it is actually a lot easier in such a situation. But that is the nature of 1 on 1. If you build for it, you will obviously dominate it. And the vamp emp is not a 1 on 1 build.

The real problem is when a vamp emp is supported by it's own zerg. And this happens when they either attack or defend a keep. Zergs themselves happen because there is strength in numbers. But vamp emp reverses that equation. To fight it you must keep your distance, to spread out, to disperse your own zerg. And then you will be run over by the zerg that follows the vamp emp.

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.” ― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

That being said:

At the moment, however, we are only a month in to the game, and we already have the one true build syndrome happening. And that is not the game working as intended, so obviously there is something wrong with this build!

Give it time folks, The Devs will change the rules of engagement.

It is war after all, and the evolving science of war is always evolving.

Armitas

kamohs212eb17_ESO wrote: »

50 ppl zerg, everyone with Silver Bolts and you cant kill some vampires by focus fire? Lol.

Also, in PvE, even in undead/daedric dungeons Silver Bolts is rarely used skill. Why would melee/ranger/mage/healer/Santa Clause/Batman/Templar/rogue put Silver Bolts in one of 5 slot when you can yell "FOR AZURA!!!" and die instead of ambush entire zerg by SB spam? Dunno, maybe i'm the one and only NB with Silver Bolts who get Stamina cap every single level and put all other attributes in mana.

What are your Silver bolts (non proc) hitting for?

cjtignub17_ESO

Vampire is crap atm. I tested this claim thay bat swarm heals in mist form it didnt for me yesterday in pve.

Vamp bug 1
Mist form doesnt work supposed to do dmg every .5 seconds but instead more like 1.5 sec.

Vamp bug 2
If u zone ur vampire cost reduction resets to stage 1 even though ur at stage four.

Vamp bug 3
All passives like dmg mitigation and run while sneak bug out and stop working if u die and wont work again until relog


In that video of people attacking the dk emperor I didnt really see him use many vamp skills. The issue is hes a dk just spam healing himself he was doing nearly no damage to anywone. Not sure why 40 people were just attacking him whwn theh ahould have been focusing on his healers and the dps in his group...

Pvp protip ignore pvp tanks their dmg sucks. Kill dps and healers first.

Vampire is weak. Silver bolts. Fighter ulti. Fire abilities rip thru vamps even with their cheap ulti cost. The range on ulti is small spread out. Also it only does 200 dmg per tick if ur healers cant outheal that well then...

sinz_xb16_ESO

starkerealm wrote: »

Tweek wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Tweek wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Tweek wrote: »

The game will be balanced out....in my opinion vamps aren't OP and if you think they are....spec in the fighters guild tree. Get silver bolts or something and use fire spells, or add fire damage to your weapon.....like if your a dragonknight use ardent flame....stop whining over game mechanics because your character cannot beat the theirs the game is broken.....LOL

Hmm... one sec, sorry, I need to borrow this:

ZakyUchiha wrote: »

I'm just going to post the top comment from the vid, since you guys do not understand what's happening and it is pretty accurate.


You lot who are saying that Emperors are supposed to be strong dont really get what is going on here
What you see in this video is the guy playing the current empress exploiting unintended mechanic that only works if a player meets certain requirements:
1) being a stage 4 vampire (60% spell cost reduction affecting ultimate ability!)
2) having a morphed vampiric self-healing ultimate ability
3) being a sorc or a dragon knight ( ultimate cost reduction passives)
4) having a specific armor set that also reduce ultimate cost
5) having a mist form
6) being an emperor

Now what is happening actually?
In short, if a player meets these requirements he can have ultimate ability cost reduced to 4 , even 0 in some cases. What does it mean? It means he can spam extremely strong self healing ability INDEFINITELY doing huge amount of damage
What;s worse. He can turn into a mist form that has 75% damage reduction AND receive ultimate self healing from the bat swarm which is not supposed to happen based on how the mist form works. A vampire in a mist form CANT get healing. BUT they missed that it doesn't affect ultimate ability bat swarm.
The thing is. The more people around the empress the more invulnerable she is.
We managed to kill her one time when she was alone avoiding being close to her , keeping distance and it took 50+ players. BUT it is IMPOSSIBLE to do if she is with her own group.
It is totally broken mechanic exploiting mist form+ bat swarm

Yeah... that's kinda what I'd call broken. Not easily broken like, say, Skyrim, but broken, none the less.

Also would like to add.....I'm vampire speced in the fighter guild tree line to kill other vampires and werewolfs and I kill them all in about 3 seconds.......

PS......mist form is bad and I don't use it. It sucks.

The issue isn't that mist form is good. The issue is creating a situation where you have a 4 point ultimate that results in massive healing which also works off enemies in the immediate vicinity.

Watch the Youtube video, it's a vampire emperor getting pounded on, simultaniously, by about 20-30 players and not taking any damage from it. That, is broken.

Hey nice strawman argument but you fail.

That video is of an EMPEROR

BEING A VAMPIRE HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT AS UNDEATH KICK IN AFTER 50% HEALTH DAMAGE....MEANIGN.

BEING A VAMPIRE HAD NO EFFECT FOR THIS EMPEROR IN THIS VIDEO AT ALL.

I NEVER SEEN THEM USE AN ACTIVE VAMP ABILITY THE ENTIRE VIDEO AND THE PASSIVES FOR VAMPIRE WOULD NOT HELP HERE.

The player was not a vampire.

A Stage 4 vampire receives a 60% cost discount on spells, including their ultimate. It's a critical part of the system to break the game.

I dont know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but the Vampirism stage cost reduction are currently not working for the ultimate ability.

So again: being a vampire had nothing to do with this.

Kililin

You should not expect to kill a supported Vampire Emperor easily or at all.

SinisterJoint

wow, that's pretty broken lol. Can't believe people are defending this at all hah

Evergreen

Atzenxb14a_ESO wrote: »

wow, that's pretty broken lol. Can't believe people are defending this at all hah

Agreed but really its the DragonKnight skill line combined with vampire mist and ultimate which make the build ridiculously OP. Other classes combined with the vampire skills can be powerful but not unstoppable. If Zenimax at least nerfs the skill reflective scales so that DK vamps can be taken down at range that would balance things out.

What the learn to play crowd like to try and convince people most about is getting out of the AOE and take a DK vamp down at range. A DK vamp just totally negates this being viable with their skill reflective scales. And silver bolts against a DK vampire are a joke. Even if a few silver bolts tickle the DK vampire we can pop our skill GreenDragonBlood 3 times in a row and be back at 70+% health. Its great letting a small group get your health down to 15% so they have hope then I spam GrennDragonBlood and... ...

SunfireKnight86

revanghost wrote: »

If people are using the game mechanics as they exist, how is the player at fault?

Seems like the people who made the game set the skills to be used in the way they're being used. Situations like these should have been caught during testing.

Exploiting bugs is against the Terms of Service for the game, that's how.

Also, this vamp thing has no weakness after a few fire runes. That is clearly not as intended unless they wanted everyone to have a god mode bunch of passives and powerful drains.

SunfireKnight86

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUcUz5Vo6iw

Just saw someone else post this in another thread. This is what it feels like going against a vamp DK.

WitchAngel

With the current pace of bug fixing, PvP will be fixed and balanced in about 20 years.