THERE IS NO WAY 2 PEOPLE (vamps) SHOULD BE ABLE TO WIPE OUT AN ENTIRE ZERG

Zaxq

wayfarerb14_ESO wrote: »

As a vamp, I just wanted to chime in and say that it does take some skill and planning to play as a vamp. I

If I allow myself to get to stage 4 vampirism, my health regeneration goes down by 75%. That means that without buffs, I can regen 8 health every 2 seconds. Even with buffs, my regen isn't as good as a non-vamp.

Can we stop pretending that having 75% reduced health regen is a huge drawback? Health regen hits the softcap at around 50 anyways, and if you were relying on 50hp regen to win fights you were going to lose anyway.

Not to mention the up to 50% dmg reduction more than compensates for any health you would have potentially regenerated.

Inzababa

Thevenin wrote: »

Just as a reminder,
Warhammer online developper, the last game focused on RvR before guild wars 2, left a few broken skills get exploited to death by minmaxers and powergamers, to the point where players felt useless if they weren't running those exact builds (and getting their nolife gear). And, guess what, the game was a huge fail and shut down a few months ago.

If ZOS leaves the door open, powergamers WILL exploit the life out of unbalanced mechanisms, and WILL drive everyone else from Cyrodiil, and most likely the game.

hope this doesn'"t die like warhammer, at least the pvp side of the game

Michaeas

I am actually glad I came upon this post. As a previous Warhammer Online player, I am all to familiar with the "play Bright Wizard or go home" meta that was present in that game. I did not change my class then and I certainly have no plans on joining "Team Edward" just so I can be competitive in PvP.

Good to know now rather than having to learn the hard way as so many here have done. "Stay out of Cyrodill unless you are a vampire."

Thanks.

SeventhSeal

Vampires do not need a nerf. They need to fix being able to spam ulti all the time and fix mist form and it ends this issue. If vampires are op then why do not hear about Templar vampire crushing raids? This issue needs fixed but crying nurf every other word wont fix anything. This build wipes raids because of bugs and they seem to busy to fix this right so they are capping aoes to only hit 6 people at a time.

NTclaymore

I said this in another thread but ill say it here too. The easy way to fix this without having to nerf anything is to put a soft-cap on ult-reduction. That way there will be a few seconds where you cannot use the Bat swamp and if you are standing as the only enemy in a huge zerg seconds is not something you have.

starkerealm

NTclaymore wrote: »

I said this in another thread but ill say it here too. The easy way to fix this without having to nerf anything is to put a soft-cap on ult-reduction. That way there will be a few seconds where you cannot use the Bat swamp and if you are standing as the only enemy in a huge zerg seconds is not something you have.

Easier than that would be to simply make ultimate reductions non-cumulative. So you always get the best reduction, but there's no stacking.

NTclaymore

But that would hurt some skills and make some passives useless. with the soft cap you wont get that problem.. that much

Omniphonic

i can fix this game in one sentence. werewolf transformation costs 80 ult, vampire ult costs 1200.

bam, done. thank you zenimax, and you're welcome. please make all checks out to Mr. Art The Official.

the condition prestige classes were in on the game's release is really shameful. Just the fact that a ww can still be in the fighter's guild or a vamp in the mage's guild is nonsensical. I don't really play or give two hoots about pvp in this game, I'm the worst kind of filthy casual themepark mmo player there is, but I would quit because of this otherwise.

Demonsz

I'm a big fan of PVP but indeed the mechanic is testing our patience in our hardcore player guild.

This thread seems to be going a little off topic on occasion so just want to add my experience.

First of all the mechanic where as a player can spam devouring swarm with 0 cool down is currently NOT a bug, the players are simply taking advantage of presumed miscalculation.

Secondly, silver bolts have very little effect on a vampire using this mechanic to wipe a zerg as they are simply healing through any of the damage. An organised group can pull back and simply range this mechanic down, but the randoms will generally group together and provide unlimited hitpoints once again. Remember that you are not just spamming an ultimate once, as there is no cool down you have 5-6 bats up at once dealing an incredible amount of damage, and therefore healing an incredible amount of hit points.

Right now we are somewhat protected by the fact that you can only spam bats in stage 4 vampirism with all of the other bonuses, sets etc. Realistically no player can hold stage 4 vampirism for too long in Cyrodiil without getting D/C or crashing which resets the stage. This gives at least 90 minutes without 'permabats' I'm worried that the latest patch will fix the vampire stages bug but not fix the swarm, creating hell.

Finally as a guild we farmed the Akaviri set and are using this mechanic as it's the most effective way of doing PVP at the moment. Our intention is to teach others how to do this so eventually it is nerfed and order is restored to Cyrodiil.

AshleyLee

the correct way to deal with OP vampires.

Elder Scrolls Online -PvP, Auriel's Bow Aldmeri -Lissanah Fried Vampire

http://youtu.be/5j_V0VG4Yy8

ElSlayer

starkerealm wrote: »

NTclaymore wrote: »

I said this in another thread but ill say it here too. The easy way to fix this without having to nerf anything is to put a soft-cap on ult-reduction. That way there will be a few seconds where you cannot use the Bat swamp and if you are standing as the only enemy in a huge zerg seconds is not something you have.

Easier than that would be to simply make ultimate reductions non-cumulative. So you always get the best reduction, but there's no stacking.

Pretty much this ^

Also, it would be wise to follow simple logic: "If ability consumes resources of some pool, It shouldn't generate that resource"
So, basically, Ultimate skills shouldn't generate Ultimate.

AshleyLee wrote: »

the correct way to deal with OP vampires.

Elder Scrolls Online -PvP, Auriel's Bow Aldmeri -Lissanah Fried Vampire

Wow...it looked as if she was disintegrated by Quark Canon volley.
Beatiful.

bugulu

It gets a bit funny with an overzelous defender claiming to destroy vampires all the time and that the fighter's guild tree needs a nerf and the vampire ultimate abuff and then it pops up that he's actually a dragonknight vampire. Him also claiming that Mist Form is useless. Moron.

Claiming that a fighter's guild user can kill a vampire despite the vampire being in a zerg is utterly false. Stop spreading lies. The life regeneration due to bat swarm is hilarious. Thinking that silver bolt can oneshot any vampire (when it procs) with 1750 damage is idiotic thinking.

I am a nightblade vampire veteran rank two and despite having silver bots, I can't destroy vampires within seconds unless they happen to be those new vampires that are below veteran rank.. and if so, I would be able to obliterate them anyway without silver bolts.


The issue is not vampire alone, it's not dragonknight or sorceres alone either.
It's a combination of how spell reduction stacks together with the spammability with an ultimate (ultimates is an ultimate, it's not a spell, it should take some time before you use it again) and the ridiculous damage mitigation you can get.

Cherryblossom

The saddest thing about this thread, is that it's one of the most commented on, with the exception of Zenimax.

I was hoping that communication was getting better but this one thread proves otherwise.....

Attorneyatlawl

Savinder wrote: »

Silver Bolts?

Silver Bolts.
Dodge Roll away.
Negate Magic.
Bash/interrupt
Spread out or drop banner/other ult to reduce their healing

Yeah, it's a little OP due to stacking ult cost reductions, but vampires aren't the problem, ult cost reductions are . And zergs needing to learn to NOT stand in the fire.

Inzababa

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The saddest thing about this thread, is that it's one of the most commented on, with the exception of Zenimax.

I was hoping that communication was getting better but this one thread proves otherwise.....

exactly

Attorneyatlawl

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The saddest thing about this thread, is that it's one of the most commented on, with the exception of Zenimax.

I was hoping that communication was getting better but this one thread proves otherwise.....

They're probably deciding what to do for once instead of instantly catering to whines... that's actually a GOOD thing.

Inzababa

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The saddest thing about this thread, is that it's one of the most commented on, with the exception of Zenimax.

I was hoping that communication was getting better but this one thread proves otherwise.....

They're probably deciding what to do for once instead of instantly catering to whines... that's actually a GOOD thing.

well this isn't some low scale whine you know, its (without exagerating) gamebreaking in many (not all) situations..

Cherryblossom

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The saddest thing about this thread, is that it's one of the most commented on, with the exception of Zenimax.

I was hoping that communication was getting better but this one thread proves otherwise.....

They're probably deciding what to do for once instead of instantly catering to whines... that's actually a GOOD thing.

Your right I would like to think they were thinking about it, but speculation and rumours does not help them at all.

Speculation and Rumours happen because they do not quite simply say we are looking at this mechanic.

Acknowledgement of issues is the biggest problem with Zenimax, it's this one thing that is making me thinking I shouldn't Sub. Like any investor I like to know there is some security in my investment, this investment is decidedly risky as we have no idea what is going on.....

Attorneyatlawl

Inzababa wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The saddest thing about this thread, is that it's one of the most commented on, with the exception of Zenimax.

I was hoping that communication was getting better but this one thread proves otherwise.....

They're probably deciding what to do for once instead of instantly catering to whines... that's actually a GOOD thing.

well this isn't some low scale whine you know, its (without exagerating) gamebreaking in many (not all) situations..

Except it's not. I already just posted a small list of things that instantly shut it down.

"Silver Bolts.
Dodge Roll away.
Negate Magic.
Bash/interrupt
Spread out or drop banner/other ult to reduce their healing"

Yes, ult stacking is an issue, but there's the same issue for sorcs with atronarchs, dk's with banners, nb's with veil of blades, and many other permutations. Devouring Swarm is already capped at 6 targets. The problem with it is that you can get it, like many other ultimates, down to a minimal cost and chain it. Poorly skilled players wipe to aoe, nothing new in MMO's. That's not even a bad thing. The bad thing is that ult cost reduction stacks additively and tips it over the top.

But hey, this was reported for a long time on PTS. So were many other things..... so I for one hope they start acting on reports with more heat put on them finally. Heck knows they had enough feedback and reports of these kinds of issues (both potential and already-existing at that time) prelaunch. But like the user interface, werewolves, and others, I wouldn't expect an instant fix.

Ranrach

Vampires suck @ PvE. I don't wanna run trials with vampires in the team.

Cherryblossom

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Inzababa wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The saddest thing about this thread, is that it's one of the most commented on, with the exception of Zenimax.

I was hoping that communication was getting better but this one thread proves otherwise.....

They're probably deciding what to do for once instead of instantly catering to whines... that's actually a GOOD thing.

well this isn't some low scale whine you know, its (without exagerating) gamebreaking in many (not all) situations..

Except it's not. I already just posted a small list of things that instantly shut it down.

"Silver Bolts.
Dodge Roll away.
Negate Magic.
Bash/interrupt
Spread out or drop banner/other ult to reduce their healing"

Sadly your missing the point of Zergs there are a lot of people there, many who don't understand what is happening.

Your right if there are a group of 8 of you that know whats going on, then your system works. Unless there are more than one!!!!

Inzababa

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Inzababa wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The saddest thing about this thread, is that it's one of the most commented on, with the exception of Zenimax.

I was hoping that communication was getting better but this one thread proves otherwise.....

They're probably deciding what to do for once instead of instantly catering to whines... that's actually a GOOD thing.

well this isn't some low scale whine you know, its (without exagerating) gamebreaking in many (not all) situations..

Except it's not. I already just posted a small list of things that instantly shut it down.

"Silver Bolts.
Dodge Roll away.
Negate Magic.
Bash/interrupt
Spread out or drop banner/other ult to reduce their healing"

Yes, ult stacking is an issue, but there's the same issue for sorcs with atronarchs, dk's with banners, nb's with veil of blades, and many other permutations. Devouring Swarm is already capped at 6 targets. The problem with it is that you can get it, like many other ultimates, down to a minimal cost and chain it. Poorly skilled players wipe to aoe, nothing new in MMO's. That's not even a bad thing. The bad thing is that ult cost reduction stacks additively and tips it over the top.

But hey, this was reported for a long time on PTS. So were many other things..... so I for one hope they start acting on reports with more heat put on them finally. Heck knows they had enough feedback and reports of these kinds of issues (both potential and already-existing at that time) prelaunch. But like the user interface, werewolves, and others, I wouldn't expect an instant fix.

It IS gambreaking in most situations but not all, we finally got a vamp emperor and I've been talking to him, he basically said he was literally invincible.

There are TONS of things wrong with this, here's another example :

the ones with invisibility instead of life leech have bat swarm which, instead of stopping after 5 seconds, are PERMANENT.

You can NOT target them cause they are invisible ...

Anyway, the problem now, isn't one vampire wiping zergs even though that still happens now and then, the big problem now is GROUPS of vampires with healers in their team too, what you gona do ?

Inzababa

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Inzababa wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The saddest thing about this thread, is that it's one of the most commented on, with the exception of Zenimax.

I was hoping that communication was getting better but this one thread proves otherwise.....

They're probably deciding what to do for once instead of instantly catering to whines... that's actually a GOOD thing.

well this isn't some low scale whine you know, its (without exagerating) gamebreaking in many (not all) situations..

Except it's not. I already just posted a small list of things that instantly shut it down.

"Silver Bolts.
Dodge Roll away.
Negate Magic.
Bash/interrupt
Spread out or drop banner/other ult to reduce their healing"

Sadly your missing the point of Zergs there are a lot of people there, many who don't understand what is happening.

Your right if there are a group of 8 of you that know whats going on, then your system works. Unless there are more than one!!!!

yeh and thats with only 1 vampire ...

guys, there are now TONS of vampires in groups, when it's a 15 vs 15 fight, if you don't have vampires on your side and they do, it's 100% wipe

Attorneyatlawl

Inzababa wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Inzababa wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The saddest thing about this thread, is that it's one of the most commented on, with the exception of Zenimax.

I was hoping that communication was getting better but this one thread proves otherwise.....

They're probably deciding what to do for once instead of instantly catering to whines... that's actually a GOOD thing.

well this isn't some low scale whine you know, its (without exagerating) gamebreaking in many (not all) situations..

Except it's not. I already just posted a small list of things that instantly shut it down.

"Silver Bolts.
Dodge Roll away.
Negate Magic.
Bash/interrupt
Spread out or drop banner/other ult to reduce their healing"

Sadly your missing the point of Zergs there are a lot of people there, many who don't understand what is happening.

Your right if there are a group of 8 of you that know whats going on, then your system works. Unless there are more than one!!!!

yeh and thats with only 1 vampire ...

guys, there are now TONS of vampires in groups, when it's a 15 vs 15 fight, if you don't have vampires on your side and they do, it's 100% wipe

So wrong on so many levels. Exaggeration and hyperbole rule the day here though eh? But welcome to MMO PVP: there are counters in these games, and your refusal to use them doesn't make something need to be removed from the game.

Hiply

crowfl56 wrote: »

PVP = Griefers period, its the way they luv to play, its their whole, game. Yes it ruins the game for others, but its the way they enjoy the game. They don't play the PVE side, they will use any and all exploits they find, that is PVP. No one will ever change that.

Don't PvP? No one's forcing you that part of the game, Crow. If you don't like the vibe or the people then don't participate.

Inzababa

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Inzababa wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Inzababa wrote: »

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

The saddest thing about this thread, is that it's one of the most commented on, with the exception of Zenimax.

I was hoping that communication was getting better but this one thread proves otherwise.....

They're probably deciding what to do for once instead of instantly catering to whines... that's actually a GOOD thing.

well this isn't some low scale whine you know, its (without exagerating) gamebreaking in many (not all) situations..

Except it's not. I already just posted a small list of things that instantly shut it down.

"Silver Bolts.
Dodge Roll away.
Negate Magic.
Bash/interrupt
Spread out or drop banner/other ult to reduce their healing"

Sadly your missing the point of Zergs there are a lot of people there, many who don't understand what is happening.

Your right if there are a group of 8 of you that know whats going on, then your system works. Unless there are more than one!!!!

yeh and thats with only 1 vampire ...

guys, there are now TONS of vampires in groups, when it's a 15 vs 15 fight, if you don't have vampires on your side and they do, it's 100% wipe

So wrong on so many levels. Exaggeration and hyperbole rule the day here though eh? But welcome to MMO PVP: there are counters in these games, and your refusal to use them doesn't make something need to be removed from the game.

Wait a second..

It's wrong that there are now groups that have more than one vampire?

It's wrong that many times the batswarm never stops?

I'm not even going to get into all the details cause there's no point making a wall of text if you haven't experienced this kind of pvp, it's the kind of thing that you have to see to believe.

SO MANY people, including in my guild were at first like, n4p L2P, vampires are sensitive to fire, you can just break the cc, get out of melee, blah blah blah, and when they actually did some group pvp discovered what the hell I'm talking about and why it's game breaking.

I have half my guild now afk from PVP until they fix this.

We were gaining players every day, having A LOT of fun until this happened.

Gamebreaking = people no longer play the pvp game because it's broken, simple as that.

limeli8

Easy fix to vamp stuff, make mist form targetable, and make initial cost of batswarm 250 instead of 200 and finally make ITEM (so abilities dont get gimped) ult reduction not stackable. This way even with the -20% set (which most wont use after the bash nerf) the ult will cost 50 instead of 10 or w/e and with out the set it'll be 100.

Jarnhand

Kids defending how OP/broken/buged Vamp abilities are right now, just need to stop. Just stop! You make yourself look like a fool!

Anyone with any sense of reason can see it a mile away how broken the Vamp template is. And no, do not blame it on Sorcs or DKs. It IS the Vamp template that is put on top of the class that is horribly broken!

As it is in game now, it is broken and people leave/cancels, more and more every day, as more and more become vamps. Cyrodiil will soon be a clownbin of Vamps.

We all want to win, and we can not blame some people for using the flaws in the game while they can. This is why Zenimax should have never let this go live, and as it is now and they did let it go live, they should have stopped it 1-2 weeks ago when it started to become a problem.

I have said it before; once you make people angry about CLEARLY broken/OPed mechanics in a MMO, they cancel and talk trash about the game everywhere. And winning them back once the damage is done is VERY hard.

The longer Zenimax waits before they fix the broken Vamp, the more damage is done!

Holycannoli

Mendoze wrote: »

Current situation is totally ***, and if this is not fixed really soon, lots of people are going leave or stop pvp.

If the PTS change to AOE makes it to live even more people will leave. Seriously, nerfing all AOE because of one particular combination of skills will make people quit, and I wouldn't blame them. You shouldn't use a sledgehammer to put a tack in the wall.

Inzababa

Jarnhand wrote: »

Kids defending how OP/broken/buged Vamp abilities are right now, just need to stop. Just stop! You make yourself look like a fool!

Anyone with any sense of reason can see it a mile away how broken the Vamp template is. And no, do not blame it on Sorcs or DKs. It IS the Vamp template that is put on top of the class that is horribly broken!

As it is in game now, it is broken and people leave/cancels, more and more every day, as more and more become vamps. Cyrodiil will soon be a clownbin of Vamps.

We all want to win, and we can not blame some people for using the flaws in the game while they can. This is why Zenimax should have never let this go live, and as it is now and they did let it go live, they should have stopped it 1-2 weeks ago when it started to become a problem.

I have said it before; once you make people angry about CLEARLY broken/OPed mechanics in a MMO, they cancel and talk trash about the game everywhere. And winning them back once the damage is done is VERY hard.

The longer Zenimax waits before they fix the broken Vamp, the more damage is done!

basically if you're theorycrafting, on paper people don't see much of a problem, you have to actually see it with your own eyes and experience this *** to get the point..