My experiences, as a PVEer in Cyro, is like that of the rabbits in Watership Down. "If they catch you, they will kill you." Although I rarely go to Cyro (just for MYM and the occasional treasure map), and I rarely see enemy players in low pop campaigns, in those cases where an enemy player sees me, they will invariably chase me down and kill me. I've never had an enemy player see me and just let me live. My wife has had the same experience. In fact, just last night we were watching "Waterloo" where the French lancers ride down Ponsonby and stab him in the back, and she said "Just like Cyrodiil." We laughed and laughed.

Minyassa wrote: »

The reason that none of the PvP players want there to be a PvE Cyrodiil is because if PvE players had a different instance to go to in order to get those skyshards and fishing spots for PvE achievements, they would not be in PvP Cyrodiil for the PvP players to keep killing as they tried to get the fishing and skyshards done.

A thing which practically never happens.

PvErs have this real perception that PvPers just camp skyshards and fishing holes on the off chance some PvEr innocently going about their business is going to eventually turn up in this enormous, mostly empty zone and it's just... not what happens. If you're in Cyro for PvP you're at keeps, resources or choke points.

You're not waiting at a spot for hours on the off chance that someone is going to turn up there. It's just a completely baseless and entirely inaccurate belief about Cyrodiil used to wind up scared PvErs about a region where it's perfectly easy to do the minimal amount of boring PvE that it contains.

Sanctum74 wrote: »

I just wish pve players would stop spreading misinformation creating this falsehood which is probably the reason pve players are afraid to go into cyrodill.

Do you really think a pvp player is going to sit through a que and then go to a part of the map that never gets any action and sit for hours just to kill someone fishing or getting sky shards?

I'm not sure you can really speak for anyone's experience but your own here.

Do YOU sit and wait to attack someone who is trying to do other things and does not engage in fighting back? No?
Are there other people who do those things? Obviously there are. This has been well-documented, and I have personally experienced it many, many, many times. So have countless other people on this forum.

[Edit to remove bait]

Jaraal wrote: »

amapola76 wrote: »

I'm just saying that if your overarching goal is to kill players who aren't interested in fighting back and don't even try to do so, then I'm not sure what you're doing is actually PVP. It's certainly not impressive. Nor is it the kind of thing that's likely to convince most people that actually PVP is good.

Most of us aren't like that.

If I see a solo enemy player fishing, or in a delve, or harvesting materials and looking for a green glowing book, I will usually approach them to see their reaction. If they ignore me, or run away, I leave them alone. If they attack me, then it's on. Sure, killing any enemy player helps me get my dailies done faster, or adds to my PvP achievements..... but there's no honor in killing those who didn't come to fight. If fact, you are actually helping my alliance win the war because you are taking a space against the population cap that keeps a real fighter in the queue.

Granted, there are those who relish being able to shoot the proverbial fish in the barrel, but these are also the same people who will sneak in and open that treasure chest while you're fighting the mob that protects it in PvE. It's not a PvP only attitude. And it's not fair to say that all PvPers are heartless, ruthless killing machines you should be afraid of. Even amongst the hardcore PvPers we often congratulate each other on a good fight, or ask about each other's builds, etc.

The majority of people who despise PvP are those who have not actually given it a fair chance. I used to hate going to Cyro to grind for skills I wanted to use in PvE. But I actually found out that the game mode is more fun for me than plain PvE, and I'm thankful that ZOS steered me into doing something I wouldn't have selected on my own, had there not been unique rewards that I wanted.

Great! Then, you're not the kind of person I'm talking about, and we are actually in agreement. Nobody said it was all PVPers, or only PVPers.

Goregrinder wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

As someone who doesn't care at all about PVP.

Stop. Just stop. Jesus ya'll keep beating on this dead horse relentlessly.

There is no meaningful PVE content in Cyrodiil. It's literally just a bunch of Keeps and open space for PVP with a tiny town here and there. There's nothing important there for a PVE player. Nothing at all.

90% of the game world is PVE. There is absolutely no reason you need that last 10% that was set aside for PVPers.

Let the PVPers have their space. Stop beating the dead horse.

Exactly! Thank you for getting it. 🙂👍

I'm not beating any dead horse. All you PVP players keep misunderstanding what is being asked. Go read my first post. I updated it to make the request clear.

Hydra9268 wrote: »

I'm not beating any dead horse. All you PVP players keep misunderstanding what is being asked. Go read my first post. I updated it to make the request clear.

I have read your OP, and the edits, and the follow-ups, and I absolutely get what you have been saying from the start.

I will reiterate that I am not a PvPer... I don't like it. I'm not equipped for it. I get no pleasure being constantly killed by players who are more skilled and practised than me. I have, on occasion, enjoyed stealing a keep or two during MYM, but overall I just find it completely frustrating. I have accepted that that there are titles, motifs, and dyes that I will probably never get, or will take years to acquire. I have however, completed all PvE content (dolmens, delves, quests, skyshards, fish) and have all related titles. I wanted "Savior of Nirn" so bad for my main!!

I have also had to accept this fact for PvE content as well, because there are things I don't enjoy there, either.

That being said, as a die-hard PvE player... I also do not believe in a PvE Cyrodiil, as you have detailed it, for a few reasons.

1. There is a war. That is a lot of the premise behind ESO. The map will not just magically clear itself up. Also, that is the story in that area, and the "quests" are somewhat related, even if they are just fetch quests, mostly. But in a war zone, there wouldn't be these developed storylines, people are more occupied with surviving.

2. It should be stressful to explore a war zone.

3. I don't know how feasible an expansion would be. How would you explain, lore-wise, the existence of two simultaneous Cyrodiils? Because PvP Cyrodiil wouldn't just cease to exist with a PvE Cyrodiil expansion. And for the love of Mara, please no one bring up the dragon break excuse...

4. As mentioned by many PvPers here, it is pretty much the only content they have. If any part of the player base deserves some expansion, it's them. (And some new servers so they could play decently wouldn't be bad, either). I have no issue giving up the development of PvE content if my PvP counterparts can get some well-deserved love (and yes, even if they will kill me without mercy).

5. I don't think there is anything wrong with an area being strictly PvP, without a PvE counterpart. The same way that I believe that end game content should exist, and some players love it and others don't. ESO is fantastic in that it offers content for all types of players. (And I know this is not what you are requesting, but it came up alot in the convo so I wanted to mention it).

6. As stated quite clearly by Varanis, this is how it was intended. There is a different fun to be had in Cyrodiil, even for players who do not like PvP. I know, because I have tried it. And even though I won't be spending hours upon hours chasing AP, I have occasionally been known to woop when I managed to get a kill (which... almost never happens). I also had a laugh when I was chased once by some toad who didn't want to leave me alone even though I clearly did not want to engage in PvP, ran toward a keep like the coward I am, and they ended up being killed by the guards who were of my faction at the time. Took all I had not to run over and celebrate over their dead body in unholy ways

OP, you stated that you have never set foot in Cyrodiil, and can't be bothered because it is PVP... Perhaps try it out (I would highly suggest during low pop time), take in the beautiful scenery (there is much of it to be had), get a feel for it and the content, before suggesting changes or alternatives to something that you have never experienced?

JoDiMageio wrote: »

Hydra9268 wrote: »

I'm not beating any dead horse. All you PVP players keep misunderstanding what is being asked. Go read my first post. I updated it to make the request clear.

I have read your OP, and the edits, and the follow-ups, and I absolutely get what you have been saying from the start.

I will reiterate that I am not a PvPer... I don't like it. I'm not equipped for it. I get no pleasure being constantly killed by players who are more skilled and practised than me. I have, on occasion, enjoyed stealing a keep or two during MYM, but overall I just find it completely frustrating. I have accepted that that there are titles, motifs, and dyes that I will probably never get, or will take years to acquire. I have however, completed all PvE content (dolmens, delves, quests, skyshards, fish) and have all related titles. I wanted "Savior of Nirn" so bad for my main!!

I have also had to accept this fact for PvE content as well, because there are things I don't enjoy there, either.

That being said, as a die-hard PvE player... I also do not believe in a PvE Cyrodiil, as you have detailed it, for a few reasons.

1. There is a war. That is a lot of the premise behind ESO. The map will not just magically clear itself up. Also, that is the story in that area, and the "quests" are somewhat related, even if they are just fetch quests, mostly. But in a war zone, there wouldn't be these developed storylines, people are more occupied with surviving.

2. It should be stressful to explore a war zone.

3. I don't know how feasible an expansion would be. How would you explain, lore-wise, the existence of two simultaneous Cyrodiils? Because PvP Cyrodiil wouldn't just cease to exist with a PvE Cyrodiil expansion. And for the love of Mara, please no one bring up the dragon break excuse...

4. As mentioned by many PvPers here, it is pretty much the only content they have. If any part of the player base deserves some expansion, it's them. (And some new servers so they could play decently wouldn't be bad, either). I have no issue giving up the development of PvE content if my PvP counterparts can get some well-deserved love (and yes, even if they will kill me without mercy).

5. I don't think there is anything wrong with an area being strictly PvP, without a PvE counterpart. The same way that I believe that end game content should exist, and some players love it and others don't. ESO is fantastic in that it offers content for all types of players. (And I know this is not what you are requesting, but it came up alot in the convo so I wanted to mention it).

6. As stated quite clearly by Varanis, this is how it was intended. There is a different fun to be had in Cyrodiil, even for players who do not like PvP. I know, because I have tried it. And even though I won't be spending hours upon hours chasing AP, I have occasionally been known to woop when I managed to get a kill (which... almost never happens). I also had a laugh when I was chased once by some toad who didn't want to leave me alone even though I clearly did not want to engage in PvP, ran toward a keep like the coward I am, and they ended up being killed by the guards who were of my faction at the time. Took all I had not to run over and celebrate over their dead body in unholy ways

OP, you stated that you have never set foot in Cyrodiil, and can't be bothered because it is PVP... Perhaps try it out (I would highly suggest during low pop time), take in the beautiful scenery (there is much of it to be had), get a feel for it and the content, before suggesting changes or alternatives to something that you have never experienced?

I agree with every point, which is why I'm NOT asking for a "PVE Cyrodiil sans PVP." It took several pages of discussions for what I'm asking for to become more apparent to myself (thanks to the community for that). I would like for the devs to create another instance of Cyrodiil for a new PVE chapter. Further, I'm not asking for an exact 1:1 copy of Cyrodiil. Instead, 50-60% of the area so the devs can add more detail with dungeons, delves, trials, main and side quests, etc., and even dividing it up into two zones (perhaps a northern and a southern). In other words, PVP Cyrodiil will still be there will all its delves, skyshards, and whatnot. A new chapter of Cyrodiil gives a person who has not seen it since Oblivion a chance to revisit and explore.

It's a barren map. If this was implemented, down the road im sure the pve crowd will go on to the forums and complain that the map is empty and that it's poorly designed.

Adding a PVE version of Cyrodiil would take away the excitement and thrill of trying to get the skyshards/dolmens etc that are in enemy territory without getting killed imo. PVP can be easily avoided if you really want to do so, it just takes some planning and awareness of what's going on.

I'm not a massive pvper, but I did venture there often to farm AP, very useful for when the right gear comes up on the weekend.

Simply say, I don't want to play Elder Scrolls just like PVP combat like the Call of Duty.
If I want to play pure PVP game, I'll go to other game title.

Anyone else noticing all the subtle ( and not so subtle ) toxicity from some PVERS here directed at "pvpers"? Kind of funny to me..and a lot of it coming form people who have admittedly not been in cyro, or have very little pvp experience....The vast majority of pvpers are no where near the ravenous monsters some people make them out to be, much like the majority of PVERs aren't the neckbeard basement dwelling elitists that people make them out to be. I am willing to bet if you just ask for help with something in zone chat, pvpers will help....

@AvalonRanger so, and correct me if I am wrong, you aren't happy that ESO is an mmo and not like the earlier titles in the TES series?