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Stop mindcontrolling MY character ZOS!!!

xtni
xtni
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I do love ESO, and I also love many of the other TES titles...
I think questing in ESO is really great, and overall one of my absolute favourite things in the game. The quests are very engaging and well done!

I will speak about Josajeh as an example, but it is a reocurring thing in the game across many characters and quests... It makes me a bit worried for the game overall.
Why is the game "playing" my character for me? Why is the game forcing me to like this character? She nearly broke time itself... and yet I am forced to be friends with her and bid her a friendly farewell? really...?

For me, Josajeh is the without a doubt the most annoying character in the game, and I mean that with every insult possible... I can't abide her actions, I can't abide how the game is attempting to make me feel bad for her, and she ruined most of the Psijic questline for me... I have played the storyline several times, and no matter what dialogue choises I pick, the feeling of not making any choice for myself remains. I do not like her character, I think she was annoying from the start, and I can not just forgive her for her stupid and selfish actions, and yet some divine power (ZOS) seems to make my character love her...
Why? Just why?

I know I've said this many times, but I just can't abide her... yet the game offers no dialogue options to be angry with her. In the end, you have to listen to her farewells and wish her safe travels. I don't want to do that. I have not forgiven her actions, and I don't want the game to force me into polite conversation with someone I don't like.

If ESO had been a "roleplaying game" there would at least have been an option to remain silent... I don't want to change her character, I don't want to change the questline or change the outcome - I just want a bit more dialogue options...

Loremaster Celarus says: "She deceived me and the Ritemaster, stole an artifact of unimaginable power, and very nearly broke time itself. Exile is our only recourse. This brings me no joy. I care deeply for Josajeh. It is… it is tragic." - Sure, that is the loremasters opinion, and I am not saying that is wrong. If he cares for her - good for him - just don't try to force me into feeling the same.


Sadly ESO is not a "roleplaying" game since the game is forcing me to forgive her and become friends with her...
I don't believe it is even possible to make an evil character, due to lack of dialogue options in the game...
I don't enjoy the "on rails dialogue"...

I don't think Josajeh is a badly written character. It is very natural to have people you like and people you don't like, that does not make her poorly written... I do however think, the lack of choice in how you respond to her is making the overall psijic story and interaction within the psijic story poorly written.

I really miss a chance to make my own dialogue choice... why even make my own character if the game is playing my character and roleplaying for me? If there is no actual options and if the dialogue is on rails, why even give me dialogue?

When the game is choosing my friends for me it loses value... I want to decide if I have a bond with a character or not. I don't want the game to pick my friends for me. When Abnur Tharn returned in Elsweyr, I was very happy to see him, and I would have loved to be able to choose for myself, and really embrace him as a friend of my own choice, instead of the game forcing me to be alright with him. It could be cool to have seen an option, where you were angry with him for what he did in the main quest, and an option where you are completely fine with it and forgives him.


This is sadly a therme in the game and I hope in the future, we can get more options for dialogues... I often feel forced to have certain opinions and often it is not possible to even agree with morally grey/shady characters who happen to be our allies...

To me, dialogue in ESO leaves a bit to be desired...
  • Fischblut
    Fischblut
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    Why is the game "playing" my character for me? Why is the game forcing me to like this character?

    I agree! I very rarely like main/important NPC characters, and yet most of time I'm forced to work with them/be friendly to them :/
  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    ESO, and indeed most roleplaying games, are never going to live up to our imaginations or be able to capture the wide range of responses that we might have to events and characters.

    I have my gripes too, but at a certain point, the game is only so customizable. Development time and money is limited, and the writers are writing stories for a wide variety of players and characters, not just one Varanis Arano who hates vampires in general, and one hypocritical Count Verandis Ravenwatch in particular.
  • Mythreindeer
    Mythreindeer
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    Wow.

    Take a step back, deep breath. Watch the IRL evening news and your problems with this NPC will fade into unimportance.

    Also maybe live without the Psijic line on future toons.

    Best.
  • Kalik_Gold
    Kalik_Gold
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    Storylines need more "choose your adventure" written options.
    Main: (PvP & PvE)
    Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar, the Vestige

    PvP:
    Aurik Siet'ka a Redguard Necromancer
    Cacique the Sage of Ius a Redguard Warden
    Jux Blackheart a Redguard Nightblade
    Goliath of Hammerfell a Redguard Dragonknight
    Kaotik Von Dae'mon a Redguard* Sorcerer

    PvP: (Specialty)
    Tyrus Septim an Imperial Lycan Sorcerer
    Tsar af-Bomba a Redguard Vampiric Nightblade (Bomber)
    Movárth Piquine a Nord Vampiric Necromancer
    Uri Ice-Heart the Twin a Nord Vampiric Warden
    Voa a Priest of Sep a Redguard* Necromancer

    PvE:
    Cinan Tharn an Imperial Dragonknight (Tank)
    Bates Vesuius of Dawnstar an Imperial Dragonknight (Damage)
    Herzog Zwei the Genesis an Akavari* Templar (Healer)
    Tav'i at-Shinji a Redguard** Warden (One-Bar)
    Lucky Hunch the Gambler - a Redguard Nightblade (Thief)

    Leveling...
    Two-Big-Horns an Argonian Arcanist
    Styx of Akatosh a Goblin* Arcanist
    Zenovia at-Tura a Redguard** Sorcerer
    Yesi af-Kalik a Redguard Templar
    ======
    Passives of another race used. (RP)
    *Breton
    **Imperial




    __________________________Backstories:_________________________

    Ras Kalik the Vestige, a renown Redguard warrior; He has been blessed to save Tamriel from Molag Bal’s destructive Planemeld while reuniting the Five Companions. His further accomplishments after defeating Molag Bal, has been to stop the destruction of Morrowind, the Clockwork City, return order to the isle of Summerset and create a new king in Wrothgar and a queen in Elsywer. These events have made him a living legend and continue to lead him into new adventures throughout Tamriel, as well as into the hearts of many ladies including the Elf Queen, Aryenn. Over many years of adventurous travels, Ras Kalik had become a loner, until he re-visited his homeland of Alik'r.

    Alik'r and it's cities were overrun by the undead Ra-Netu and therefore he made an allegiance with Alik'r's own Ash'abah tribe. These Ash'abah with his help, cleansed the city of Sentinel in Alik'r desert and it's surrounding areas of the undead brought to life by the Withered Hand. After rescuing Sentinel from the undead zombies, King Fahara’jad’s personal bodyguard the Goliath of Hammerfell, who was given this name by Imperials in the region; was asked to assist the tribe after learning of the defeat of the Withered Hand to the Ash'abah. Kalik promised Goliath he would task him with fighting living enemies on the battlefield if he so desired. Goliath being a Yokudan warrior wields a massive sword in respect to the Ansei, a gift given by the Imperial, Cinan Tharn. Not many soldiers are able to wield double two handed weapons, but Goliath loves to get up and personal in a fight, so he also carries a giant maul, both weapons laced with magical flames.

    Jux Blackheart is a master thief that masquerades as a Bard at the Sisters of the Sands inn, with his younger sidekick Lucky Hunch for pilfering and gambling during this time. Jux was known to infiltrate any towns bank vault he came across and even delved into Ayelid ruins without detection. Kalik can vividly recall the night he met the famed thief. Jux found himself rummaging thru a slightly inebriated Kalik’s pocket for too long, on a full-mooned night and because of his greed and the glimmer of his golden armor in the moonlight. He lost his left pinky fingertip as a lesson! But in return, he gained a new friend, as it was his first time since a child being caught red-handed...

    Upon arrival back in the Alik'r after many moons of adventuring, Ras Kalik ventures to Bergama. Visiting The Winking Jackal, he runs into Jux Blackheart, who introduces him to the coin game Crowns vs Forebearers (Heads vs Tails) and Golden Dwemer (RBG).... Jux constantly takes gold from the unfortunate thru theft or gambling, his biggest gambling victim is actually his partner in crime known as Lucky Hunch the Gambler. Lucky doesn't mind losing any gold coins to Jux... as Jux saved him from Altmer slavers in Summerset, by stealing a key and sending him on a boat to the mainland years prior. Lucky spent years in slavery with Khajiits in Summerset and picked up the art of subterfuge, using illusion magic disguises and stealing there.

    Kaotik Von’Daemon an outcast, and a half-caste between a Breton mother and a Redguard father. Kaotik become a pariah due to his conjuration of Daedra pets. He was taught healing magic during his childhood years by his Breton mother. His father due to Redguard customs exiled him from the desert, sending him by wagon caravan to be a soldier in the war in Cyrodiil. He happened to meet Kalik while traveling from Alik'r, during this long caravan ride the caravan he was in was ambushed in Bangkorai by a group of bandits. Kalik by chance was also traveling thru this area on his Auridon Warhorse (which was bestowed to him by his friend, Darien Gautier). During this ambush, Kalik was able to rescue five hostages from the bandits. Kaotik was the first rescued, and Ras Kalik also recruited him to be in the Ash'abah tribe. These core Ash'abah tribesmen may never be seen together in travel as they partake in their own adventures but they always know what each other is doing; as they frequent a hideout in northern Bankorai. Their hideout an old Orc castle ruin, is kept watch by Nuzhimeh and she passes messages written between them, and frequently they also enjoy her company and her bed.

    The other men rescued were a Dunmer banker, an Imperial mercenary and two other soldiers, an Imperial and a Breton Knight, stating proudly he was an Akavir descendent. One of the Imperials, Cinan, claimed to be related to Abnur Tharn the Battlemage of the Imperial Elder Council (One of Ras Kalik's mentors in the Five Companions). Cinan Tharn was really Abnur's drunkard treasure hunting illegitimate son. He was caught smuggling artifacts out of the Ayleid ruins in Cyrodiil and the elder of the two Imperials was Tyrus Septim a retired Imperial navy battle-mage (now a Lycan mercenary living in the city of Rimmen) and guard to the Tharn family. As much as Abnur Tharn hated his half-sister Euraxia, he dislikes his bas†ard son Cinan more. Tyrus now a ruffian and privateer had been paid by Abnur Tharn to watch over Cinan as much as possible. Cinan Tharn a drunkard, loves to drink at least a quarter barrel of Nord mead before he raids various delves and dungeons for relics to sell on the black market. Cinan also plans to one day, run an illegal gambling ring... which he thinks will net him more gold for his wares.

    The Dunmer captive shackled to the Imperials looked familiar to Kalik from his time in Morrowind.... and he recognized him as Tythis Andromo a House Telvanni slave-owner and banker from Vvardenfell. During a rough interrogation to Tythis, Ras Kalik learnt why the bandits accosted him. The racist Dunmer was providing slaves as soldiers for the Three Banner War. The bandits were trying to negotiate a lucrative ransom for Andromo and the Imperials.... Kalik did not need any of this gold and he could never set Tythis free as he did with the two Imperial soldiers. His past involvement with slavery and war crimes, made Kalik's blood boil. He chose not to execute Tythis, as he figured the worse punishment for this former rich and opulent slave owner, is to now be an imprisoned servant for Ras Kalik and the tribe.

    Herzog Zwei the Genesis a reknown Imperial/Akavirri battle-mage. His roots going back to Akavir through his mother’s bloodline. (His mother is descended from the Akaviri, through Versidue-Shae, and his Imperial father met her in Hakoshae, while traveling) Herzog earned the nickname "the Genesis" from his father as a child, as he was his mother's first born child, and last, as she tragically died in child-birth.

    Herzog was seeking to purchase an artifact from Cinan Tharn, before their capture and was meeting Tyrus while in Rimmen, who introduced him to Cinan. This artifact being the Ayelid artifact; the sword Sinweaver. After their rescue and the exchange of gold to Cinan for the sword he decided to slip away before Ras Kalik could question who he was, and why the Akavir descendant really wanted that sword. Herzog was headed to Nagastani — An Ayleid ruin in eastern Cyrodiil. He had read in scrolls that the Sword would give him magical powers to meet his mothers spirit, if he performed an Ayleid ritual at an old shrine hidden there. Equipped with the artifact sword, he was off to start his own adventure but Ras Kalik, did indeed notice the sword however and instead sent a letter to Jux Blackheart (whom also was interested in Ayleid treasures), to attempt to find Herzog and acquire the sword. (*Azani Blackheart in Elder Scroll's Oblivion is Jux's descendant some 747 years later)

    And so the Redguard, Imperial and Akaviri men parted ways ... While Ras Kalik went off to Elsweyr to encounter the latest threat to Tamriel, with Abnur Tharn and Sai Sahan - - DRAGONS!! Little did Ras Kalik know a few people were awaiting him in Senchal besides Sai. A necromancer survived his attack on the Withered Hand, while in Alik'r. The necromancer known as Auriek Siet'ka is also following him to the land of the Khajiits and Cacique the Sage of Ius a Shaman mystic who has become attuned spiritually with Tu'whacca (a Redguard God) and Ius (the Animal God), after being burned severely by the escaped dragons in Elsywer, is awaiting his arrival also. Aurik is a soldier of the Daggerfall Covenant that was introduced to necromancy while in the military, even though this magicka art is not spoken of openly by most of the Military leaders. He came to Alik'r and worked with the Withered Hand before Ras Kalik intervened on their plans. After the defeat of the Withered Hand, he aligned with the Worm Cult, and is constantly adapting and perfecting his necromantic arts.

    After his journey to Rimmen, Kalik heads south to Senchal, in the southern regions of Elyswer. This new adventure will also put him on a path to meet a strange Redguard man. The stranger which was infected with an untreated Peyrite disease and also was the exiled from the Order of the New Moon cult, due to his sickness. He originally joined the cult to worship Laatvulon, the green dragon, mistakenly thinking it was the Daedric prince Peyrite. This confused and suffering cultist is known as Tsar al-Bomba and he is on a path to spread the disease. He was originally infected in Orccrest while recruiting members there. Can Ras Kalik and the shaman Cacique cure this poor soul, only time will tell. Little does Tsar al-Bomba know, that his infection is tied to Vampirism, and eventually the desire for blood will take over his mind. Senchal also offers Kalik his latest love interest... Aeliah. Whom he fondly led thru battles with the Dragonguard.

    After the trek thru the heat, tropical and desert climate of Northern and Southern Elyswer, Ras Kalik heads north to the cold mountain range of Skyrim. His companion friend Lyris beckons for him with a letter sent by crow...

    Movárth Piquine - a former vampire hunter (now infected), within the Fighter's Guild (and a secretive necromancer) was in Skyrim working with the Morthaal Guard. On a patrol mission he was caught in Frewien's ice curse outside of Morthaal with the frozen undead. Movárth's vampiric infection kept him from becoming an undead minion to the curse. He was able to use necromantic ice-magic to encase himself safely until he was freed with Freiwen, when the Vestige Ras Kalik broke the curse.

    Uri Ice-Heart - brother of Urfon Ice-Heart. The twin sons of Atli and Oljourn Ice-Heart. The Ice-Heart family are originally from Markarth but now reside on the Jerall Mountain range near Cyrodiil, with their younger sister Araki. The twins had joined the Winterborn Reachmen while living in Markarth. Urfon pushed west to Orsinium with the Winterborn Clan, leaving his family behind. Uri stayed behind with his parents and sister to live in the family cabin for safety, avoiding the Vampire plague infiltrating the Reach. After news reaches him and he hears of Urfon's death... Uri leaves and heads home and is seeking vengeance. Meanwhile, his sister has also moved on to Windhelm to join the Fighter's guild. He will visit his sister, once before going to seek vengeance and she will craft him armor mixed with ice, called Stalhrim armor. Uri fearing death, after his brother's passing, falls victim to the convincing talk of Movárth at a Nordic tavern, and will also becomes a vampire.

    {time moves forward through the hour-glass}
    PS5/NA - Ras Kalik a Redguard Templar - Daggerfall Covenant • 1550+ Champion
    Returning player - 2017-2022, back in 25'
  • allhailskippy
    allhailskippy
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    This is a problem with the way they designed quests from the very beginning.

    Nothing matters. Period.
    Your choices, regardless of what they may be. End up with the same footnote above a quest areas marker.

    "Resolved the conflict present there"

    Even the main storyline is like this. Choose the "wrong person". Too bad. Skyhook comes and brings them back regardless. At best, you'll get an extra line or two of dialog.

    But while irritating. I don't think that's a huge problem. This is an MMO, not a single player RPG. And while it belongs to a franchise, it will always be separate.

    Think of it this way. A single player RPG is designed to have 1 character play through it, and then be done. If you want to explore different options, then you re-roll a character and play again (or save your game, murder the entire populace of the game, and then reload like nothing happened).

    But MMOs carry on. New content comes out on the regular. We are meant to keep playing the same character. Over, and over, and over.

    So what happens when everyone ends up at different possible outcomes for a quest. You get maybe 2 endings to track. So when the next story comes along you'll have 2 starting points instead of 1. Each of which, unless they railroad you into an ending, will have their own outcomes. If they each have 2, then you now have 4 possible starting points for the next story. And then 8, 16, 32. And so on.

    So while it would be nice to have this type of control/behaviour over our own destinies. It is an understandable outcome of a necessary design decision.

    We're just passengers along this particular ride.
    Hireling Wanted! - An Elder Scrolls Tale https://hirelingwanted.com
  • Remathilis
    Remathilis
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    This is why a video game, ANY video game, can't beat face to face gaming like Dungeons and Dragons. You're always gonna be on the rails in an mmo, so enjoy the ride or disembark.
  • josiahva
    josiahva
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    Yeah....the storyline in ESO is terrible. Just like all video games. The only video game I have seen with actual well written quests is The Witcher....and I suspect that is because they just copied storylines from the books....however they managed it, those quests feel like more than a re-skinned Fable fetch quest. To be clear though...I don't actually expect good storylines. If I want a good story, I will read a book.
  • Lintashi
    Lintashi
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    Mostly I somehow manage to keep my immersion in game and character, but yes, in many cases, game makes us choose and follow the path against our will in order to complete the quest. I really hate quest in Karthwasten. Why on earth, should I pay my respects to Molag Bal at his shrine! My character may be an assasin, vampire and thief, but praying to Molag Bal is just too much!
  • Berdusk
    Berdusk
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    This is a problem with the way they designed quests from the very beginning.

    Nothing matters. Period.
    Your choices, regardless of what they may be. End up with the same footnote above a quest areas marker.

    "Resolved the conflict present there"

    Even the main storyline is like this. Choose the "wrong person". Too bad. Skyhook comes and brings them back regardless. At best, you'll get an extra line or two of dialog.

    But while irritating. I don't think that's a huge problem. This is an MMO, not a single player RPG. And while it belongs to a franchise, it will always be separate.

    Think of it this way. A single player RPG is designed to have 1 character play through it, and then be done. If you want to explore different options, then you re-roll a character and play again (or save your game, murder the entire populace of the game, and then reload like nothing happened).

    But MMOs carry on. New content comes out on the regular. We are meant to keep playing the same character. Over, and over, and over.

    So what happens when everyone ends up at different possible outcomes for a quest. You get maybe 2 endings to track. So when the next story comes along you'll have 2 starting points instead of 1. Each of which, unless they railroad you into an ending, will have their own outcomes. If they each have 2, then you now have 4 possible starting points for the next story. And then 8, 16, 32. And so on.

    So while it would be nice to have this type of control/behaviour over our own destinies. It is an understandable outcome of a necessary design decision.

    We're just passengers along this particular ride.


    I don't think the OP is asking for alternative endings in different questlines. I agree with him: It's the forced dialogue choices that are the problem. I get that it's an MMO and not everyone is going to make the same selections and, with it being a shared world, the outcome of quests are limited. But that doesn't mean the dialogue has to always make our dialogue choices the same. His character may dislike Josajeh and mine might. That doesn't require a different outcome for the quest, but we shouldn't all be wishing her a fond farewell by default, either.

    I would like the option to side with the Worm Cult and ultimately be defeated, for example. But I know it's an MMO, so I have to fight Molag Bol and so on. That doesn't mean I should have the exact same dialogue as every other Vestige in the game.

    The outcome may be a foregone conclusion, and that's fine. There's no reason we can't have a little more variety in our dialogue choices, though. It's an easy thing to do on a case-by-case basis (not so much going back, given the scope of the game at this point), so there's no reason we should all be forced into only one dialogue option. This would, however, be an easy thing to fix moving forward.

    TL:DR - Fixed quest outcomes are fine, fixed dialogue is not.

    Thank you.
  • Kiralyn2000
    Kiralyn2000
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    Remathilis wrote: »
    This is why a video game, ANY video game, can't beat face to face gaming like Dungeons and Dragons. You're always gonna be on the rails in an mmo, so enjoy the ride or disembark.

    This. RPGs, especially MMORPGs don't actually have a lot of "choice" or "role-playing" in them. They mostly have set stories that you get to play through, making minor choices here & there while the main structure is set.

    Of course, it's been like this for the 30+ years I've been gaming, so I don't expect more than that. Every MMO I've played, I've been "stuck liking" the NPCs the quests give me (oh, don't get me started on this Discovery-based garbage going on in Star Trek Online the last year or two :D ). Nothing new or surprising there.

    Only surprising thing to me, is people actually thinking it wouldn't be that way.
  • Nirntrotter
    Nirntrotter
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    Josajeh is a big offender for me as well, and a big reason why I dislike the Psijic "story" arc so much. She is insanely unlikable, which is fair, but there's no way to acknowledge that, and on top of that the actual story happens in the background while you're away on a wild goose time rift chase. After, the NPCs get you up to speed on what happened. Very engaging design, lol.
    Grand Warlord Arodel, Gryphon Heart
    <Serenity>
    AD MagDK, *2014, PC-EU | 49k+ achievement points
  • spartaxoxo
    spartaxoxo
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    You're not gonna get that kind of storytelling in a game of this size. Just think of the vestige like Nathan Drake, they are a particular character in a particular world. Sure, you may have some minor control over their dialogue or morality, but they also have a personality that's not of your own design.

    The vestige is generally forgiving, forgetful, amoral, and is not the brightest bulb in the box. They are also a tremendously powerful being. Those things are gonna generally always be true.
    Edited by spartaxoxo on April 29, 2021 9:41PM
  • xtni
    xtni
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    Berdusk wrote: »

    I don't think the OP is asking for alternative endings in different questlines. I agree with him: It's the forced dialogue choices that are the problem. I get that it's an MMO and not everyone is going to make the same selections and, with it being a shared world, the outcome of quests are limited. But that doesn't mean the dialogue has to always make our dialogue choices the same. His character may dislike Josajeh and mine might. That doesn't require a different outcome for the quest, but we shouldn't all be wishing her a fond farewell by default, either.

    I would like the option to side with the Worm Cult and ultimately be defeated, for example. But I know it's an MMO, so I have to fight Molag Bol and so on. That doesn't mean I should have the exact same dialogue as every other Vestige in the game.

    The outcome may be a foregone conclusion, and that's fine. There's no reason we can't have a little more variety in our dialogue choices, though. It's an easy thing to do on a case-by-case basis (not so much going back, given the scope of the game at this point), so there's no reason we should all be forced into only one dialogue option. This would, however, be an easy thing to fix moving forward.

    TL:DR - Fixed quest outcomes are fine, fixed dialogue is not.

    Thank you.

    Exactly that! That is my opinion, and that is exactly what I meant when I wrote the post. Sure, there are limits and the quest outcomes will probably always be very limited due to the game being an mmo, but a few dialogue options is not much to ask for and it is not something that would be hard to implement.

  • AcadianPaladin
    AcadianPaladin
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    Two specific quests come to mind because my elf will no longer do them.

    One is in Grahtwood and is called Pact Advocate. After discovering the identity of the villager who committed the unforgivable sin of picking a mushroom to make a life-saving potion for a dying woman, the guilty villager is sentenced to death. You do not have the option of saying, "You are uncompassionate idiots and if you want to kill this villager, you'll have to come through me!" Your options are to participate in the execution or abandon the quest.

    The second such quest is in Vardenfell is more problematic since it is actually a Telvanni questline where you help Sun-in-Shadows become a Telvanni wizard. She is a despicable character which is fine as far as that goes, but there is no option to sabotage or undo her manipulation and abuse of those who care about her in her 'at all cost' focus on her objective.
    Edited by AcadianPaladin on April 29, 2021 4:18PM
    PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo
  • the1andonlyskwex
    the1andonlyskwex
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    This is a problem with the way they designed quests from the very beginning.

    Nothing matters. Period.
    Your choices, regardless of what they may be. End up with the same footnote above a quest areas marker.

    "Resolved the conflict present there"

    Even the main storyline is like this. Choose the "wrong person". Too bad. Skyhook comes and brings them back regardless. At best, you'll get an extra line or two of dialog.

    Hold up there. When ESO released, tons of quests actually had consequences and affected the world. The problem was that then everyone was dumped into a different instance based on the choices they made, which badly fragmented the player base and even prevented friends from playing together. It caused tons of problems and complaints, so they removed most of it over the course of the next year.
    Edited by the1andonlyskwex on April 29, 2021 4:33PM
  • allhailskippy
    allhailskippy
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    This is a problem with the way they designed quests from the very beginning.

    Nothing matters. Period.
    Your choices, regardless of what they may be. End up with the same footnote above a quest areas marker.

    "Resolved the conflict present there"

    Even the main storyline is like this. Choose the "wrong person". Too bad. Skyhook comes and brings them back regardless. At best, you'll get an extra line or two of dialog.

    But while irritating. I don't think that's a huge problem. This is an MMO, not a single player RPG. And while it belongs to a franchise, it will always be separate.

    Think of it this way. A single player RPG is designed to have 1 character play through it, and then be done. If you want to explore different options, then you re-roll a character and play again (or save your game, murder the entire populace of the game, and then reload like nothing happened).

    But MMOs carry on. New content comes out on the regular. We are meant to keep playing the same character. Over, and over, and over.

    So what happens when everyone ends up at different possible outcomes for a quest. You get maybe 2 endings to track. So when the next story comes along you'll have 2 starting points instead of 1. Each of which, unless they railroad you into an ending, will have their own outcomes. If they each have 2, then you now have 4 possible starting points for the next story. And then 8, 16, 32. And so on.

    So while it would be nice to have this type of control/behaviour over our own destinies. It is an understandable outcome of a necessary design decision.

    We're just passengers along this particular ride.

    Hold up there. When ESO released, tons of quests actually had consequences and affected the world. The problem was that then everyone was dumped into a different instance based on the choices they made, which badly fragmented the player base and even prevented friends from playing together. It caused tons of problems and complaints, so they removed most of it over the course of the next year.

    I was not aware of that. Only been here since post 1T
    Hireling Wanted! - An Elder Scrolls Tale https://hirelingwanted.com
  • Sheezabeast
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    If you have a PS4, I highly recommend a game called Detroit: Become Human. It has an insane amount of endings, your decisions effect how characters treat you, and you can kill off people in the plot you don't like and the plot progresses around that, with consequences, but you can, and it's wonderful!!!
    Grand Master Crafter, Beta baby who grew with the game. PC/NA. @Sheezabeast if you have crafting needs!
  • Alurria
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    This is a problem with the way they designed quests from the very beginning.

    Nothing matters. Period.
    Your choices, regardless of what they may be. End up with the same footnote above a quest areas marker.

    "Resolved the conflict present there"

    Even the main storyline is like this. Choose the "wrong person". Too bad. Skyhook comes and brings them back regardless. At best, you'll get an extra line or two of dialog.

    Hold up there. When ESO released, tons of quests actually had consequences and affected the world. The problem was that then everyone was dumped into a different instance based on the choices they made, which badly fragmented the player base and even prevented friends from playing together. It caused tons of problems and complaints, so they removed most of it over the course of the next year.

    This^ the consequences of opening the game up to one tramiel. You couldn't quest with a friend unless you were in the same instance and same part of a quest. So here we are. But I find the quests to be fun, I don't invest my emotional support into pixelated characters either. I find them amusing or rather interesting knowing in rl I would not tolerate some of the choices I made in game. You take on the role of a hero you accept the consequences of decisions.
  • spartaxoxo
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    xtni wrote: »
    Berdusk wrote: »

    I don't think the OP is asking for alternative endings in different questlines. I agree with him: It's the forced dialogue choices that are the problem. I get that it's an MMO and not everyone is going to make the same selections and, with it being a shared world, the outcome of quests are limited. But that doesn't mean the dialogue has to always make our dialogue choices the same. His character may dislike Josajeh and mine might. That doesn't require a different outcome for the quest, but we shouldn't all be wishing her a fond farewell by default, either.

    I would like the option to side with the Worm Cult and ultimately be defeated, for example. But I know it's an MMO, so I have to fight Molag Bol and so on. That doesn't mean I should have the exact same dialogue as every other Vestige in the game.

    The outcome may be a foregone conclusion, and that's fine. There's no reason we can't have a little more variety in our dialogue choices, though. It's an easy thing to do on a case-by-case basis (not so much going back, given the scope of the game at this point), so there's no reason we should all be forced into only one dialogue option. This would, however, be an easy thing to fix moving forward.

    TL:DR - Fixed quest outcomes are fine, fixed dialogue is not.

    Thank you.

    Exactly that! That is my opinion, and that is exactly what I meant when I wrote the post. Sure, there are limits and the quest outcomes will probably always be very limited due to the game being an mmo, but a few dialogue options is not much to ask for and it is not something that would be hard to implement.

    If they just gave different dialogue that didn't change anything about the next time the character saw you, that wouldn't be satisfying either. If you told Josajeh off and the next time you saw her you had to be her bff, that would be pretty off-putting. So the only way to make that dialogue actually matter is to enable more choices which has the same problem as other choices
  • Faded
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    xtni wrote: »
    Berdusk wrote: »

    I don't think the OP is asking for alternative endings in different questlines. I agree with him: It's the forced dialogue choices that are the problem. I get that it's an MMO and not everyone is going to make the same selections and, with it being a shared world, the outcome of quests are limited. But that doesn't mean the dialogue has to always make our dialogue choices the same. His character may dislike Josajeh and mine might. That doesn't require a different outcome for the quest, but we shouldn't all be wishing her a fond farewell by default, either.

    I would like the option to side with the Worm Cult and ultimately be defeated, for example. But I know it's an MMO, so I have to fight Molag Bol and so on. That doesn't mean I should have the exact same dialogue as every other Vestige in the game.

    The outcome may be a foregone conclusion, and that's fine. There's no reason we can't have a little more variety in our dialogue choices, though. It's an easy thing to do on a case-by-case basis (not so much going back, given the scope of the game at this point), so there's no reason we should all be forced into only one dialogue option. This would, however, be an easy thing to fix moving forward.

    TL:DR - Fixed quest outcomes are fine, fixed dialogue is not.

    Thank you.

    Exactly that! That is my opinion, and that is exactly what I meant when I wrote the post. Sure, there are limits and the quest outcomes will probably always be very limited due to the game being an mmo, but a few dialogue options is not much to ask for and it is not something that would be hard to implement.

    Agree.

    They used to do a better job of this. There's a quest on the AD starter island that I like a lot for just this reason. The bad guy disappears after the quest whatever you pick, but your character chooses the lawful outcome or the chaotic one. I think it changes a couple of lines of dialogue four zones later, but I'm not sure because every time but one
    I was all about the Green Lady torturing him to death.

    And yeah, "It's ok, I know you didn't mean any harm," is not what any of my characters wanted to say to Josajeh.
    Edited by Faded on April 29, 2021 5:20PM
  • Mik195
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    I just want a simple end to the quest and if you pick it, you don't see the character again. Like for Sun in Shadows if the last thing I tell her is that I don't approve, then she doesn't show up at my "saved the world" party. They can leave the BFF during the quest, just let the end have more than one finish.
  • SpiritofESO
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    :D
    Edited by SpiritofESO on June 29, 2024 5:06PM
    • ~ PS NA ~ ALDMERI DOMINION ~
      ~ "SPIRIT GOLDBLADE" WOOD ELF NIGHTBLADE ~
      ~ GRAND OVERLORD ~ FORMER EMPRESS ~
      ~
      "Adapt or Die"
  • GreenHere
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    Yeah, whenever I see people singing praises for ESO's writing and story content, I think of stuff like this.

    I find most of it to be far below "superb" or whatever people say that think it's so great, but sometimes it's just downright unenjoyable for me when "the story" forces me to feel/react/"choose"/etc things that make no sense for me or my character. No one likes being railed into decisions that make no sense for how they see their journey going. And there's plenty of that in ESO.

    Sometimes I kind of wish I was one of those people who thought everything was awesome, though. Life must be blissful for those folks, haha.
  • amapola76
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    I actually find most of the dialogue choices in various quests to be fairly minimalist. After all, in game as in real life, there's what you say and what you think, and they need not align precisely. Your words and your motivations may be two very different things.

    For example, if OP wants to roleplay in this scenario, your headcanon might be that this character is NOT your bff, but you realize that everyone else loves her, so you say polite farewells to go along with the group, even though internally you despise her.

    This approach takes a bit more imagination than having the game provide you with every possible permutation of dialogue choices, but most of the time, it's effective.
    Edited by amapola76 on April 30, 2021 9:34PM
  • amapola76
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    Then, too, there's tone: there's absolutely no reason you can't imagine most dialogue choices being said in a snarky or sarcastic tone rather than sincerely. Or with enthusiasm or in a monotone, depending on your character.
  • spartaxoxo
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    GreenHere wrote: »


    Sometimes I kind of wish I was one of those people who thought everything was awesome, though. Life must be blissful for those folks, haha.

    Well sometimes I wonder if displeasure at this is an extension of how the character is viewed. Is the vestige their own characters who's story you're helping to form or an extension of yourself, storytelling wise? Like for me, I don't care that the vestige isn't doings how I would do them, because I'm not the vestige
  • Araneae6537
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    It would be awesome if there were different response options, at least for main story quests, that might make little to know difference in their outcome but would affect how other characters interact with us. I am hopeful that we will have such options at least with new companions being introduced. :)

    As for the quests, although sometimes I really do wish I had other response options, most of the time I feel like they are reasonably neutral and let you fill in what your character thinks about the other characters and situation. It’s not like GW2, which has a ton of voiced cutscenes for the PC and can be quite jarring if you’d imagined your character reacting differently!
  • Bradyfjord
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    There are several npc's that ought to have been punished in some way. Not going to make a list, but instead just say that in most cases it would not affect the game at all to have the option to punish an npc if the player thinks it is in character.
  • Kiralyn2000
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    GreenHere wrote: »


    Sometimes I kind of wish I was one of those people who thought everything was awesome, though. Life must be blissful for those folks, haha.

    Well sometimes I wonder if displeasure at this is an extension of how the character is viewed. Is the vestige their own characters who's story you're helping to form or an extension of yourself, storytelling wise? Like for me, I don't care that the vestige isn't doings how I would do them, because I'm not the vestige

    Yeah. The characters I play in games aren't avatars/extensions of 'me', they're just very fancy game pieces being moved around on a very fancy board.

    I suppose I also don't really "roleplay"very hard - in most of these games that don't really give any actual choice, I'm fine with playing through/experiencing the story that the devs want to tell. I don't need to make it my own. Just because it has "RPG" in it's description, doesn't automatically make it any different than a story I'm reading or a movie I'm watching - I've been playing digital "RPGs" with preset storylines for around 40 years now.

    I definitely don't have the same expectations of an MMO that I would of a Bioware or Bethesda singleplayer game - and even those are quite limited in the choices you can make, compared to a tabletop game with a GM.
  • GreenHere
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    spartaxoxo wrote: »
    GreenHere wrote: »


    Sometimes I kind of wish I was one of those people who thought everything was awesome, though. Life must be blissful for those folks, haha.

    Well sometimes I wonder if displeasure at this is an extension of how the character is viewed. Is the vestige their own characters who's story you're helping to form or an extension of yourself, storytelling wise? Like for me, I don't care that the vestige isn't doings how I would do them, because I'm not the vestige

    I guess the short answer for me would be "it depends"...

    I don't really get heavy into roleplaying or anything, not in the way that most mean it I think, but I do sometimes attempt to play a character how I envision their personality would dictate.

    As an example, I have a Necromancer character that I imagine to be decidedly evil and borderline crazy ... but he's got the same quest options as everyone else. So in situations where, "Prepare to be turned into a meat puppet, you worthless slag!! >:D " might be an appropriate response for him, I'm instead left with the choice between "You probably shouldn't have done that, but I forgive you. After all, we just met but I feel like we're going to be friends forever!" or "You made the right choice, and I admire your strength of character for doing the right thing. I support you, booboo! *mwah*" Exaggerated for the sake of illustration, but often the "choices" we get seem incongruous just for the situation at hand, or like meaningless non-choices in the first place. Hard to have much immersion or feel the writing is particularly praise-worthy in situations like that. And there's a lot of them to my mind.

    Other times I'm not thinking about my character at all. I'm just playing through the game as me more or less, and there are times when I look at the dialogue options and think, "I wouldn't say... any of that. No one would. Wut?" Or other times still where there seems to be reasonable dialogue options, but they for some reason seem to be all out of order. I run into this one a lot; if you choose dialogue options from top to bottom the flow of conversation seems very "off" for lack of a better way to put it. Bottom to top almost seems to be the actually-intended way to go through dialogue choices in most cases. Which is weird, right?

    Even if you play as a generic, agreeable, "normal" actor in the world, sometimes the dialogue/choices just seem so... I don't know... stale? Like a writer was on their 9th story for the day, and was just thinking, "Gods! Is it 4 o'clock yet?!" or something. So while I get that they can't all be gems, for every quest that I feel is stale or whatever there is someone who thinks it's awesome and well-written. I guess I was more saying I sorta wish I could be so accepting and happy with stuff like those folks. Unfortunately my crotchety brain and critical nature won't seem to allow it. :P

    It's mostly a "me" problem, no question.
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