Overland is too easy!

icapital · February 2021

I want to desperately love this game and make it my main over WoW. I want to make the transition completely because ESO does many things superior to WoW, especially how the whole world remains relevant no matter what expansion we're on.

But at the same time, it doesn't do this because the world is too damn easy. I thought the purpose of level scaling was to open the game up so that players didn't out level an area. Well, it happened, but the enemies now across the board in the open world and questing feel TOO EASY.

It's so easy in fact, that it's the equivalent of me taking my lvl 60 legendary armor character and going back to old "out leveled" zones in WoW and facerolling through the content because I'm well beyond the enemies their level.

So ESO may as well not even have level scaling from the aspect of out leveling zones because the impact is the same. Enemies are face-rolled in both games.

The main difference is that WoW at least has ONE content group that remains relevant and DOES pose a challenge. You pull too much in the latest expansion zones and you will die. End quest bosses do pose a challenge. ESO has no challenge in any of the open-world or quest bosses at all, anywhere, and it should be the other way around. The level scaling should give us a WoW end game zone experience in every zone.

IDC what anyone says, it's just too easy. There's no risk/reward at all adventuring and getting lost in the zones when you know you'll face roll any mobs you encounter. Quest storylines that are so well written and carried out are butchered and become inconsequential when you defeat the bosses that were played up for hours in literally a matter of minutes with little difficulty.

Things need to change and like fast.

joseayalac · February 2021

Just to clarify, this thread isn't about making overland harder for everyone. I'm asking for an OPTION. I get that new players need easy content.

They didn't remove normal dungeons when veteran dungeons where implemented, did they? Quite the opposite, every time a DLC dungeon drops, it's normal version is there for players to enjoy.

Also I know there's harder content, but I'm talking about the quests because it's one very important aspect of the game.

I'm just asking if questing had an option to make combat more engaging, at least make it necessary to break free, block and bash.

JTD · February 2021

Sevn wrote: »

You know what you are right, Doshia is the perfect example. She was nerfed because the MAJORITY of the players complained. Unless you think it's a majority that wants to roll back to not being able to progress the story for days, weeks, months until you've grinded up your levels to move past a story roadblock.

I'm confused if you agree or disagree but nontheless.

Ask yourself this question, if you're in an education and you're failing (not passing or getting insufficiënts) is the course to difficult or do you have to invest more time in it? Now I know an education is not the same as playing a game for fun but the concept is, is has to come from both ends of the spectrum. The person giving the course has to look for different ways of teaching the contents or concepts (mechanics) and the player/student has to practise...

If i apply this to ESO ... the teacher/game gave up and dropped the difficulty of the course....
But i digress...

I would like to see the game explain mechanics a lot better not just in the tutorial but maybe even a monster guide / book of the mages guild with info on mechanics of mobs....)

Sevn · February 2021

icapital wrote: »

I want to desperately love this game and make it my main over WoW. I want to make the transition completely because ESO does many things superior to WoW, especially how the whole world remains relevant no matter what expansion we're on.

But at the same time, it doesn't do this because the world is too damn easy. I thought the purpose of level scaling was to open the game up so that players didn't out level an area. Well, it happened, but the enemies now across the board in the open world and questing feel TOO EASY.

It's so easy in fact, that it's the equivalent of me taking my lvl 60 legendary armor character and going back to old "out leveled" zones in WoW and facerolling through the content because I'm well beyond the enemies their level.

So ESO may as well not even have level scaling from the aspect of out leveling zones because the impact is the same. Enemies are face-rolled in both games.

The main difference is that WoW at least has ONE content group that remains relevant and DOES pose a challenge. You pull too much in the latest expansion zones and you will die. End quest bosses do pose a challenge. ESO has no challenge in any of the open-world or quest bosses at all, anywhere, and it should be the other way around. The level scaling should give us a WoW end game zone experience in every zone.

IDC what anyone says, it's just too easy. There's no risk/reward at all adventuring and getting lost in the zones when you know you'll face roll any mobs you encounter. Quest storylines that are so well written and carried out are butchered and become inconsequential when you defeat the bosses that were played up for hours in literally a matter of minutes with little difficulty.

Things need to change and like fast.

Or conversely, you could just continue making WoW your main?

Is that what this is? Players from other games who really don't like ESO and are actively trying to make it more similar to "another" mmo?

joseayalac · February 2021

Sevn wrote: »

icapital wrote: »

I want to desperately love this game and make it my main over WoW. I want to make the transition completely because ESO does many things superior to WoW, especially how the whole world remains relevant no matter what expansion we're on.

But at the same time, it doesn't do this because the world is too damn easy. I thought the purpose of level scaling was to open the game up so that players didn't out level an area. Well, it happened, but the enemies now across the board in the open world and questing feel TOO EASY.

It's so easy in fact, that it's the equivalent of me taking my lvl 60 legendary armor character and going back to old "out leveled" zones in WoW and facerolling through the content because I'm well beyond the enemies their level.

So ESO may as well not even have level scaling from the aspect of out leveling zones because the impact is the same. Enemies are face-rolled in both games.

The main difference is that WoW at least has ONE content group that remains relevant and DOES pose a challenge. You pull too much in the latest expansion zones and you will die. End quest bosses do pose a challenge. ESO has no challenge in any of the open-world or quest bosses at all, anywhere, and it should be the other way around. The level scaling should give us a WoW end game zone experience in every zone.

IDC what anyone says, it's just too easy. There's no risk/reward at all adventuring and getting lost in the zones when you know you'll face roll any mobs you encounter. Quest storylines that are so well written and carried out are butchered and become inconsequential when you defeat the bosses that were played up for hours in literally a matter of minutes with little difficulty.

Things need to change and like fast.

Or conversely, you could just continue making WoW your main?

Is that what this is? Players from other games who really don't like ESO and are actively trying to make it more similar to "another" mmo?

That's not what icapital wrote, please read a comment before bashing it.

What icapital said was that that happens in WOW as well... so no one is asking for the solution to this to copy WOW. Please stay on topic.

CP5 · February 2021

Sevn wrote: »

icapital wrote: »

I want to desperately love this game and make it my main over WoW. I want to make the transition completely because ESO does many things superior to WoW, especially how the whole world remains relevant no matter what expansion we're on.

But at the same time, it doesn't do this because the world is too damn easy. I thought the purpose of level scaling was to open the game up so that players didn't out level an area. Well, it happened, but the enemies now across the board in the open world and questing feel TOO EASY.

It's so easy in fact, that it's the equivalent of me taking my lvl 60 legendary armor character and going back to old "out leveled" zones in WoW and facerolling through the content because I'm well beyond the enemies their level.

So ESO may as well not even have level scaling from the aspect of out leveling zones because the impact is the same. Enemies are face-rolled in both games.

The main difference is that WoW at least has ONE content group that remains relevant and DOES pose a challenge. You pull too much in the latest expansion zones and you will die. End quest bosses do pose a challenge. ESO has no challenge in any of the open-world or quest bosses at all, anywhere, and it should be the other way around. The level scaling should give us a WoW end game zone experience in every zone.

IDC what anyone says, it's just too easy. There's no risk/reward at all adventuring and getting lost in the zones when you know you'll face roll any mobs you encounter. Quest storylines that are so well written and carried out are butchered and become inconsequential when you defeat the bosses that were played up for hours in literally a matter of minutes with little difficulty.

Things need to change and like fast.

Or conversely, you could just continue making WoW your main?

Is that what this is? Players from other games who really don't like ESO and are actively trying to make it more similar to "another" mmo?

ESO has so much more potential than what overland offers. Having an option that actually lives up to that potential for experienced players to dig into, while also providing newer players a place to learn and practice would only help the game in the long run. Keeping the front face of the game, the overland questing, as simplistic as it is only serves to turn off some players while failing to prepare those who want to go beyond it for what the rest of the game offers.

Asking people who genuinely enjoy the game to leave just because they want the option to have a more meaningful experience in what is the largest part of the game doesn't help. I wouldn't have continued playing this game past my time in beta if it wasn't enjoyable for me, but since this massive bit of the game is so underwhelming for myself and others like me that is a problem that can be fixed.

Sevn · February 2021

JTD wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

You know what you are right, Doshia is the perfect example. She was nerfed because the MAJORITY of the players complained. Unless you think it's a majority that wants to roll back to not being able to progress the story for days, weeks, months until you've grinded up your levels to move past a story roadblock.

I'm confused if you agree or disagree but nontheless.

Ask yourself this question, if you're in an education and you're failing (not passing or getting insufficiënts) is the course to difficult or do you have to invest more time in it? Now I know an education is not the same as playing a game for fun but the concept is, is has to come from both ends of the spectrum. The person giving the course has to look for different ways of teaching the contents or concepts (mechanics) and the player/student has to practise...

If i apply this to ESO ... the teacher/game gave up and drop the difficulty of the course....
But i digress...

I would like to see the game explain mechanics a lot better not just in the tutorial but maybe even a monster guide / book of the mages guild with info on mechanics of mobs....)

You said it yourself, it's not the same as playing a videogame. In theory, EVERYONE goes to school with the same EXACT goal, to learn. Not to socialize, not to relax, not to troll, etc..

This can not be applied to videogames as each individual plays videogames for very different reasons. Even the same game players play with different goals. No one I play with plays Eso for any other reason but to unwind and kick back, we all deal with enough real life challenges that they are completely unnecessary to replicate in Eso.

If I'm looking for a challenge I simply play a game that provides it. This is like the complaints about the difficulty being too hard in Souls games. Not all content is meant to be consumed by everyone.

I'm playing BU right now, stuck on a story boss for weeks now. Probably won't bother with it anymore and no more spending time and money on that game. Other games I can play and support. Pretty sure Zos wants to avoid this since I'm pretty sure the majority of the population is against this, for one reason or another.

Sevn · February 2021

CP5 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

icapital wrote: »

I want to desperately love this game and make it my main over WoW. I want to make the transition completely because ESO does many things superior to WoW, especially how the whole world remains relevant no matter what expansion we're on.

But at the same time, it doesn't do this because the world is too damn easy. I thought the purpose of level scaling was to open the game up so that players didn't out level an area. Well, it happened, but the enemies now across the board in the open world and questing feel TOO EASY.

It's so easy in fact, that it's the equivalent of me taking my lvl 60 legendary armor character and going back to old "out leveled" zones in WoW and facerolling through the content because I'm well beyond the enemies their level.

So ESO may as well not even have level scaling from the aspect of out leveling zones because the impact is the same. Enemies are face-rolled in both games.

The main difference is that WoW at least has ONE content group that remains relevant and DOES pose a challenge. You pull too much in the latest expansion zones and you will die. End quest bosses do pose a challenge. ESO has no challenge in any of the open-world or quest bosses at all, anywhere, and it should be the other way around. The level scaling should give us a WoW end game zone experience in every zone.

IDC what anyone says, it's just too easy. There's no risk/reward at all adventuring and getting lost in the zones when you know you'll face roll any mobs you encounter. Quest storylines that are so well written and carried out are butchered and become inconsequential when you defeat the bosses that were played up for hours in literally a matter of minutes with little difficulty.

Things need to change and like fast.

Or conversely, you could just continue making WoW your main?

Is that what this is? Players from other games who really don't like ESO and are actively trying to make it more similar to "another" mmo?

ESO has so much more potential than what overland offers. Having an option that actually lives up to that potential for experienced players to dig into, while also providing newer players a place to learn and practice would only help the game in the long run. Keeping the front face of the game, the overland questing, as simplistic as it is only serves to turn off some players while failing to prepare those who want to go beyond it for what the rest of the game offers.

Asking people who genuinely enjoy the game to leave just because they want the option to have a more meaningful experience in what is the largest part of the game doesn't help. I wouldn't have continued playing this game past my time in beta if it wasn't enjoyable for me, but since this massive bit of the game is so underwhelming for myself and others like me that is a problem that can be fixed.

Rich stated long ago, "You know you don't have to be here right?"

Taken out of context or not if you are actively trying to change a massive part of the game how on earth can you claim to enjoy it? You know why "optional" suggestions are met with resistance as well? Because there is nothing optional about having the devs spend any time and resources on this instead of something else for the majority.

Genuinely enjoy. That's like all the pver's complaining about cyro having pvp or IC having pvp. I genuinely enjoy these zones, except for the pvp. Remove the pvp and it would be perfect!

Sevn · February 2021

joseayalac wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

icapital wrote: »

I want to desperately love this game and make it my main over WoW. I want to make the transition completely because ESO does many things superior to WoW, especially how the whole world remains relevant no matter what expansion we're on.

But at the same time, it doesn't do this because the world is too damn easy. I thought the purpose of level scaling was to open the game up so that players didn't out level an area. Well, it happened, but the enemies now across the board in the open world and questing feel TOO EASY.

It's so easy in fact, that it's the equivalent of me taking my lvl 60 legendary armor character and going back to old "out leveled" zones in WoW and facerolling through the content because I'm well beyond the enemies their level.

So ESO may as well not even have level scaling from the aspect of out leveling zones because the impact is the same. Enemies are face-rolled in both games.

The main difference is that WoW at least has ONE content group that remains relevant and DOES pose a challenge. You pull too much in the latest expansion zones and you will die. End quest bosses do pose a challenge. ESO has no challenge in any of the open-world or quest bosses at all, anywhere, and it should be the other way around. The level scaling should give us a WoW end game zone experience in every zone.

IDC what anyone says, it's just too easy. There's no risk/reward at all adventuring and getting lost in the zones when you know you'll face roll any mobs you encounter. Quest storylines that are so well written and carried out are butchered and become inconsequential when you defeat the bosses that were played up for hours in literally a matter of minutes with little difficulty.

Things need to change and like fast.

Or conversely, you could just continue making WoW your main?

Is that what this is? Players from other games who really don't like ESO and are actively trying to make it more similar to "another" mmo?

That's not what icapital wrote, please read a comment before bashing it.

What icapital said was that that happens in WOW as well... so no one is asking for the solution to this to copy WOW. Please stay on topic.

He clearly wrote that WoW provided a challenge in newer zones. He wishes ESO zones played like WoW zones. I want ESO to resemble WoW in no way whatsoever. On topic my comment was.

Alurria · February 2021

This thread I think has run its course. What I don't understand is holding up another game as getting it right but being here playing ESO. If WoW is doing it right why in the world are you here? Overland is fine, the progression in overland content was craglorn, but people complained. All of this fuss is really making me think you may be a person who believes everything should be group oriented. Knowing full well games progress not digress. Maybe I'm wrong but amping up overland is a weird request.

CP5 · February 2021

Sevn wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

icapital wrote: »

I want to desperately love this game and make it my main over WoW. I want to make the transition completely because ESO does many things superior to WoW, especially how the whole world remains relevant no matter what expansion we're on.

But at the same time, it doesn't do this because the world is too damn easy. I thought the purpose of level scaling was to open the game up so that players didn't out level an area. Well, it happened, but the enemies now across the board in the open world and questing feel TOO EASY.

It's so easy in fact, that it's the equivalent of me taking my lvl 60 legendary armor character and going back to old "out leveled" zones in WoW and facerolling through the content because I'm well beyond the enemies their level.

So ESO may as well not even have level scaling from the aspect of out leveling zones because the impact is the same. Enemies are face-rolled in both games.

The main difference is that WoW at least has ONE content group that remains relevant and DOES pose a challenge. You pull too much in the latest expansion zones and you will die. End quest bosses do pose a challenge. ESO has no challenge in any of the open-world or quest bosses at all, anywhere, and it should be the other way around. The level scaling should give us a WoW end game zone experience in every zone.

IDC what anyone says, it's just too easy. There's no risk/reward at all adventuring and getting lost in the zones when you know you'll face roll any mobs you encounter. Quest storylines that are so well written and carried out are butchered and become inconsequential when you defeat the bosses that were played up for hours in literally a matter of minutes with little difficulty.

Things need to change and like fast.

Or conversely, you could just continue making WoW your main?

Is that what this is? Players from other games who really don't like ESO and are actively trying to make it more similar to "another" mmo?

ESO has so much more potential than what overland offers. Having an option that actually lives up to that potential for experienced players to dig into, while also providing newer players a place to learn and practice would only help the game in the long run. Keeping the front face of the game, the overland questing, as simplistic as it is only serves to turn off some players while failing to prepare those who want to go beyond it for what the rest of the game offers.

Asking people who genuinely enjoy the game to leave just because they want the option to have a more meaningful experience in what is the largest part of the game doesn't help. I wouldn't have continued playing this game past my time in beta if it wasn't enjoyable for me, but since this massive bit of the game is so underwhelming for myself and others like me that is a problem that can be fixed.

Rich stated long ago, "You know you don't have to be here right?"

Taken out of context or not if you are actively trying to change a massive part of the game how on earth can you claim to enjoy it? You know why "optional" suggestions are met with resistance as well? Because there is nothing optional about having the devs spend any time and resources on this instead of something else for the majority.

That same quote could be thrown in any direction out of context. At its core the issue is this, overland questing is the vast majority of the game. Many people enjoy it. Some who enjoy it are new and may want to expand beyond it but are horridly unprepared for the rest of the game, and some who used to enjoy it and already moved toward more challenging content may want to go back only to find the stories unsatisfying due to how, honestly, how stupid the ai is.

Allowing an issue to exist in the game due to having no way of fixing it is one thing, but I am optimistic that ZOS can make good quest and engaging fights, and putting the two together isn't beyond them. If one day they are able to do that for overland content that would be fantastic, but standing against the idea if it were eventually possible only serves to cut the game short of how good it can be. The devs will continue to pump out massive amounts of overland content as that is their biggest piece of content, it is just a shame it falls so far behind what it could be and fails two important groups in the game so thoroughly.

Sevn · February 2021

CP5 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

icapital wrote: »

I want to desperately love this game and make it my main over WoW. I want to make the transition completely because ESO does many things superior to WoW, especially how the whole world remains relevant no matter what expansion we're on.

But at the same time, it doesn't do this because the world is too damn easy. I thought the purpose of level scaling was to open the game up so that players didn't out level an area. Well, it happened, but the enemies now across the board in the open world and questing feel TOO EASY.

It's so easy in fact, that it's the equivalent of me taking my lvl 60 legendary armor character and going back to old "out leveled" zones in WoW and facerolling through the content because I'm well beyond the enemies their level.

So ESO may as well not even have level scaling from the aspect of out leveling zones because the impact is the same. Enemies are face-rolled in both games.

The main difference is that WoW at least has ONE content group that remains relevant and DOES pose a challenge. You pull too much in the latest expansion zones and you will die. End quest bosses do pose a challenge. ESO has no challenge in any of the open-world or quest bosses at all, anywhere, and it should be the other way around. The level scaling should give us a WoW end game zone experience in every zone.

IDC what anyone says, it's just too easy. There's no risk/reward at all adventuring and getting lost in the zones when you know you'll face roll any mobs you encounter. Quest storylines that are so well written and carried out are butchered and become inconsequential when you defeat the bosses that were played up for hours in literally a matter of minutes with little difficulty.

Things need to change and like fast.

Or conversely, you could just continue making WoW your main?

Is that what this is? Players from other games who really don't like ESO and are actively trying to make it more similar to "another" mmo?

ESO has so much more potential than what overland offers. Having an option that actually lives up to that potential for experienced players to dig into, while also providing newer players a place to learn and practice would only help the game in the long run. Keeping the front face of the game, the overland questing, as simplistic as it is only serves to turn off some players while failing to prepare those who want to go beyond it for what the rest of the game offers.

Asking people who genuinely enjoy the game to leave just because they want the option to have a more meaningful experience in what is the largest part of the game doesn't help. I wouldn't have continued playing this game past my time in beta if it wasn't enjoyable for me, but since this massive bit of the game is so underwhelming for myself and others like me that is a problem that can be fixed.

Rich stated long ago, "You know you don't have to be here right?"

Taken out of context or not if you are actively trying to change a massive part of the game how on earth can you claim to enjoy it? You know why "optional" suggestions are met with resistance as well? Because there is nothing optional about having the devs spend any time and resources on this instead of something else for the majority.

That same quote could be thrown in any direction out of context. At its core the issue is this, overland questing is the vast majority of the game. Many people enjoy it. Some who enjoy it are new and may want to expand beyond it but are horridly unprepared for the rest of the game, and some who used to enjoy it and already moved toward more challenging content may want to go back only to find the stories unsatisfying due to how, honestly, how stupid the ai is.

Allowing an issue to exist in the game due to having no way of fixing it is one thing, but I am optimistic that ZOS can make good quest and engaging fights, and putting the two together isn't beyond them. If one day they are able to do that for overland content that would be fantastic, but standing against the idea if it were eventually possible only serves to cut the game short of how good it can be. The devs will continue to pump out massive amounts of overland content as that is their biggest piece of content, it is just a shame it falls so far behind what it could be and fails two important groups in the game so thoroughly.

I'm more than optimistic, I'm going to give Zos the credit and respect they deserve and say they have indeed released good quests with engaging fights. I'm also going to go out on a limb and say that the reason they haven't bothered with this feature isn't because it's beyond their capabilities, but a conscious decision to have the game play as they intended. Just wow, the disrespect for Zos is unreal.

icapital · February 2021

I said that WoW current expansion zones remain relevant because of the lack of level scaling but that old world content becomes absolutely obsolete and that sucks.

ESO does it BETTER in that all zones remain relevant regardless of what expansion we are on. That is an infinitely better model than essentially making your older content obsolete less to farm cosmetics and such.

What I am saying is, that as a lvl 60 character, in WOW, I can go back to older zones and face roll. Funny enough, I can faceroll from level 1 in ESO EVEN THOUGH every single zone is scaled to me. Only end game zones are scaled to the player in WoW...endgame zones there that are LEVELED TO THE PLAYER have an actual challenge. You pull too much, you will die.

So what I am saying is, that this level scaling is inherently broken and just not a challenge at all. As I get stronger with my character and more experienced, I also expect the content to SCALE to me in terms of difficulty. If I "outpace" a zone in skill, then it doesn't truly level to me anymore and it isn't really a seamless experience anymore because I am face rolling through the open world and quest bosses as if they were level 1 and I was CP810...even when I'm level 10....

So the experiences between WoW's older content and ESO's alleged scaled content is one in the same. You faceroll through content in BOTH games and they are BOTH bad experiences.

Every zone in ESO's openworld especially quest bosses should pose a challenge relative to the players level/skill. What we have now is a hyper-casualized game and it's funny that some say here that this was the original vision, SPOILER ALERT

-It wasn't.

The OG ESO was challenging. You absolutely WOULD die to mudcrabs if you didn't play right and if they just kept attacking you without dodging/blocks. Some super casual players complained and poof, nerfs across the board.

Then came one tamriel with the level scaling and INITIALLY, the scaling was WAY off, the difficulty was even WORSE, encounters with critters/bosses/NPC"s lasted seconds so the devs had to go back to the drawing board and increase the health pool across the board.

The level scaling is still broken. It's too damn easy. The increased health didn't solve the problem, it just made the fights longer but didn't change the mechanics or damage output by the NPC's in the open world.

Some of us want to feel that risk/reward element to what exploring new areas should bring. If you're going through a quest chain and this end boss is being hyped up as a terrible and difficult beast to fight, I absolutely expect that when I encounter it. That element of "fear" is FUN. It's invigorating and keeps things interesting and the immersion intact. When i can face roll that, it grossly takes away from the experience and negates the immersion.

Same when I'm exploring a new zone for the first time in the wild. If I see a pack of bears, I fully expect to have a challenge fighting them off to loot whatever I was after originally or skin them. Instead what I get is 3 bears attacking me and just spamming 1 or two abilities with barely a scratch on my health bar and they're dead in a minute or two.

It's just not fun but it has IMMENSE potential to be an incredible MMO if it just had some form of difficulty slider or adjustment to THOSE WHO WANT IT. The same way they make TWO iterations of dungeons, they need to do something similar with the open world.

DaveMoeDee · February 2021

Play as a tank. We don't need overland content to even further funnel people to all be DPS builds.

I'm not opposed to any added features. I just don't care if they implement this and developers are a limited resource.

SilverBride · February 2021

Alurria wrote: »

This thread I think has run its course.

It ran its course before it even began. Starting yet another thread on a subject that's already been run into the ground isn't going to change the general consensus.

TequilaFire · February 2021

Games are not meant to be played forever, especially if you don't like the horizontal part.
Even if they increase the overland difficulty you will eventually out grow that as well.
When you reach that stage maybe it is time to move on and play a new game for a challenge.

SilverBride · February 2021

icapital wrote: »

As I get stronger with my character and more experienced, I also expect the content to SCALE to me in terms of difficulty.

Overland content is scaled exactly right for what it is. It's not veteran level end game content. Expecting it to be is unreasonable.

LashanW · February 2021

Sevn wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Just run any dungeon pug with a boss that has a 'bash this' or 'cc break this' mecanic and see how many players fail at it. The second I see someone interrupt an enemy I instantly know they have an idea of what they're doing and are leagues ahead of most other players.

And since overland mobs are so simplistic, never applying pressure in any meaningful way, why worry about say, casting a single dot skill then using another to damage your target while it ticks away?

This is such nonsense. You know why players don't bother bashing and interrupting enemies in normals? Because it's not necessary. I don't have to move out of red, I don't have to dodge or worry about mechanics. With a single other player they are super easy. It has nothing to do with how overland plays.

Different story in dlc dungeons. Certain pin mechanics in some dlc dungeons WILL oneshot players if not interrupted, even on normal (moon hunter keep werewolf boss for example). The 4 witches (last boss) in Icereach dungeon WILL wipe the group if their channel attack is not interrupted in time, even on normal.

How overland plays is a big part of why pugs don't interrupt in dlc dungeons when you get one as a random normal. They think it's not necessary, but in some dungeons it IS necessary. You literally won't complete dungeons like Icereach if nobody interrupts (even on normal).

Ingenon · February 2021

I am fine with overland content as it is now. If ZOS decides to implement a difficulty choice in options like what most single player games have, they can do that. Not to make it harder for everyone. Just so you can make it harder for you. I do not care if they implement this. I would rather that they use their developer resources to fix bugs and provide new content.

SilverBride · February 2021

LashanW wrote: »

How overland plays is a big part of why pugs don't interrupt in dlc dungeons when you get one as a random normal.

Overland is not meant to be a training ground for doing dungeons. You learn dungeon mechanics by running dungeons, not by completing storyline quests.

Urvoth · February 2021

WySoSirius wrote: »

Solo the harrowstorms or dragons. They are overland things to do 😂😂😂

Soloing stuff that was designed for large groups is not the same as soloing things designed for solos.

CP5 · February 2021

SilverBride wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

How overland plays is a big part of why pugs don't interrupt in dlc dungeons when you get one as a random normal.

Overland is not meant to be a training ground for doing dungeons. You learn dungeon mechanics by running dungeons, not by completing storyline quests.

But that requires that 3 other players need to carry and teach that inexperienced one, if it is only one player in the group who is inexperienced. If more of the group has no clue of what's going on then 2 or maybe even 1 player is then tasked with taking their time to play teacher rather than the game, there is a reason why experienced players tend to avoid the dungeon finder and its because dealing with what some call "fake dps" is all to common. In video games, it is important for the game to teach players things, slowly ramping up the difficulty of the 'puzzles' while the player learns the tools they need to solve them.

Overland being so easy and simplistic, again, causes players who only have experienced eso through questing to enter every other part of the game lacking the fundamental skills needed to complete content, which is undoubtedly a frustrating experience. Take Direfrost for example again. Why bother writing out for a player how to cc break when you can just leave them dead so they don't end up healing the boss? Makes the fight a whole lot easier, and many others in the game go the same way. Having overland put up the slightest bit of a fight does not mean everyone has to suddenly become a try-hard and make playing eso a full time job, and would make it easier for players to experience the rest of the game.

SilverBride · March 2021

CP5 wrote: »

Overland being so easy and simplistic, again, causes players who only have experienced eso through questing to enter every other part of the game lacking the fundamental skills needed to complete content, which is undoubtedly a frustrating experience.

Overland is the base game and the story. It is not meant to train players for dungeons and trials. The only way to get good at dungeons and trials is to run dungeons and trials.

If you don't want to group with new players then don't. There are plenty of guilds and players out there who will.

You and I will never agree, so let's just leave it at that.

Iccotak · March 2021

Alurria wrote: »

ParaViking wrote: »

We are not kidding our selves... ZOS is not going to implement any of this, but it is fun to discuss.

Pre One Tamriel they had a veteran plain that you went to at Lvl 50... The code is probably still there and would not be that hard to implement.

I don't think anything needs to be done with mechanics. Bump damage and health up 200-300%, maybe more, and see what happens. At this point I buff up, hit two skills, and swap bars and the boss is dead. How exciting is that!

Probably the easiest fix is what players have mentioned... Run no CP, Maybe only white crafted gear, no monster sets, and no potions. That is pretty what I do now, but it just seems so vanilla... ESO on steroids sounds like more fun!

I have a StamDK that I am playing with now that runs around naked punching stuff, and I am doing most all overland content with it. "Really!" Overland content is perfect where it is at...

It is funny as heck though... I actually die on occasion... I feel like a village idiot playing though.

It's really a shame you rushed to level out max and didn't realize it's not about the destination but the journey. This thread pops up in every game there has ever been made. There are those who want things harder because why challenge, but I suspect it's more of "I did it!" but I don't want people to catch up to me and be as gud as me. But that's my opinion. If this game bores people those people should maybe look elsewhere. Just sayin

It’s more about the fact that Main Story Bosses are incredibly underwhelming and unmemorable to such a point that it almost completely undermines the story.

Iccotak · March 2021

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Play as a tank. We don't need overland content to even further funnel people to all be DPS builds.

I'm not opposed to any added features. I just don't care if they implement this and developers are a limited resource.

I play a tank and it doesn’t make the fights engaging- just tedious.

Story Bosses are designed only for new players. Pure and Simple.

Which hurts the overall player base because we already see a response of people who don’t do Story mainly as consequence of the lack of engaging combat. - Doesn’t matter if the writing is good if the gameplay doesn’t support the narrative.

SilverBride · March 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

Story Bosses are designed only for new players. Pure and Simple.

Which hurts the overall player base because we already see a response of people who don’t do Story mainly as consequence of the lack of engaging combat. - Doesn’t matter if the writing is good if the gameplay doesn’t support the narrative.

Story bosses are designed so all players of all levels can complete the content... not just new players. Like someone mentioned earlier, some of these bosses used to be so hard that players would be stuck and unable to progress for days. I experienced that myself before One Tamriel.

Players who don't do the overland story now don't because they've already done it multiple times on multiple alts... not because it's not enough of a challenge. This is a consequence of a game being around for years. Making overland more difficult will not make the story suddenly new and fresh for those players.

They removed veteran overland for a reason. They are not going to bring it back, optional or otherwise.

Sevn · March 2021

LashanW wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Just run any dungeon pug with a boss that has a 'bash this' or 'cc break this' mecanic and see how many players fail at it. The second I see someone interrupt an enemy I instantly know they have an idea of what they're doing and are leagues ahead of most other players.

And since overland mobs are so simplistic, never applying pressure in any meaningful way, why worry about say, casting a single dot skill then using another to damage your target while it ticks away?

This is such nonsense. You know why players don't bother bashing and interrupting enemies in normals? Because it's not necessary. I don't have to move out of red, I don't have to dodge or worry about mechanics. With a single other player they are super easy. It has nothing to do with how overland plays.

Different story in dlc dungeons. Certain pin mechanics in some dlc dungeons WILL oneshot players if not interrupted, even on normal (moon hunter keep werewolf boss for example). The 4 witches (last boss) in Icereach dungeon WILL wipe the group if their channel attack is not interrupted in time, even on normal.

How overland plays is a big part of why pugs don't interrupt in dlc dungeons when you get one as a random normal. They think it's not necessary, but in some dungeons it IS necessary. You literally won't complete dungeons like Icereach if nobody interrupts (even on normal).

Again, this has nothing to do with how overland plays and everything to do with how dungeons function as a whole.

When I first stepped foot into a normal dungeon I was surprised at how easy they were, so after a few I just started going straight to vet. Huge mistake. Completely different. Many a wipe. We didn't wipe because overland failed to prepare us for freaking dungeons, we failed because normal dungeons don't teach you mechanics.

Stop trying to pin failed attempts at high level content for vets on content not meant to challenge vets. When I suggested go play another game I wasn't being trollish, that's REAL advice that I myself have taken up.

Instead of constantly making a new thread every week begging Zos to improve the melee animations I simply went out and started playing and supporting another MMO that plays like I want. It's you guys entitled attitude that a game that doesn't suit your needs should change to suit you and the extremely small number of players who would even pay for this type of rework.

You know why there will be constant objections to this? Because those of us who have played many a game that have been ruined by this crowd would like to avoid that here.

This group will NEVER be satisfied. Every week we'll get a new complaint about how it's still not hard enough or that they need more and more. It will never end. Then you got the inevitable when these new instances are ghost towns except during special events like IC.

It really shows how entitled some of you are to believe the dungeon finder is there to put you in a group of like minded individuals. It's only a grouping tool. Again, you don't know these strangers, you have no clue as to why they are not performing up to your standards.

It's really irritating to hear criticism that's completely unsubstantiated. I have a medical condition, my failures in dungeons has absolutely nothing to do with overland not teaching me anything. I'm sure many an older gamer is in the exact same boat and we don't need or appreciate being told we're playing the game wrong.

CP5 · March 2021

Sevn wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Just run any dungeon pug with a boss that has a 'bash this' or 'cc break this' mecanic and see how many players fail at it. The second I see someone interrupt an enemy I instantly know they have an idea of what they're doing and are leagues ahead of most other players.

And since overland mobs are so simplistic, never applying pressure in any meaningful way, why worry about say, casting a single dot skill then using another to damage your target while it ticks away?

This is such nonsense. You know why players don't bother bashing and interrupting enemies in normals? Because it's not necessary. I don't have to move out of red, I don't have to dodge or worry about mechanics. With a single other player they are super easy. It has nothing to do with how overland plays.

Different story in dlc dungeons. Certain pin mechanics in some dlc dungeons WILL oneshot players if not interrupted, even on normal (moon hunter keep werewolf boss for example). The 4 witches (last boss) in Icereach dungeon WILL wipe the group if their channel attack is not interrupted in time, even on normal.

How overland plays is a big part of why pugs don't interrupt in dlc dungeons when you get one as a random normal. They think it's not necessary, but in some dungeons it IS necessary. You literally won't complete dungeons like Icereach if nobody interrupts (even on normal).

Again, this has nothing to do with how overland plays and everything to do with how dungeons function as a whole.

When I first stepped foot into a normal dungeon I was surprised at how easy they were, so after a few I just started going straight to vet. Huge mistake. Completely different. Many a wipe. We didn't wipe because overland failed to prepare us for freaking dungeons, we failed because normal dungeons don't teach you mechanics.

Stop trying to pin failed attempts at high level content for vets on content not meant to challenge vets. When I suggested go play another game I wasn't being trollish, that's REAL advice that I myself have taken up.

Instead of constantly making a new thread every week begging Zos to improve the melee animations I simply went out and started playing and supporting another MMO that plays like I want. It's you guys entitled attitude that a game that doesn't suit your needs should change to suit you and the extremely small number of players who would even pay for this type of rework.

You know why there will be constant objections to this? Because those of us who have played many a game that have been ruined by this crowd would like to avoid that here.

This group will NEVER be satisfied. Every week we'll get a new complaint about how it's still not hard enough or that they need more and more. It will never end. Then you got the inevitable when these new instances are ghost towns except during special events like IC.

I'm sure Zos is just clamoring to release another piece of content that's going to end up mostly unused.

Just want to point out, trying to show some friends the ins and outs of dragonstar by taking them through normal first, but half of the things you need to know don't even show up on normal and the other half don't show up because the mobs in there melt like butter in an oven, fair point that normal mods don't prepare people for vets and for that a middle tier of difficulty could definitely be used.

DaveMoeDee · March 2021

Iccotak wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Play as a tank. We don't need overland content to even further funnel people to all be DPS builds.

I'm not opposed to any added features. I just don't care if they implement this and developers are a limited resource.

I play a tank and it doesn’t make the fights engaging- just tedious.

Story Bosses are designed only for new players. Pure and Simple.

Which hurts the overall player base because we already see a response of people who don’t do Story mainly as consequence of the lack of engaging combat. - Doesn’t matter if the writing is good if the gameplay doesn’t support the narrative.

Yeah, that was my point about being a tank. Even the easy overland is a grind with a tank.

I question the idea that people would do more questing if the combat was better. Either they are into narrative or they aren't. Doing the narrative to get to battles makes the narrative kinda pointless. Even when the game was new and things felt more challenging due to less power creep, there were a lot of people who preferred to just grind mobs to level.

Alaztor91 · March 2021

I wouldn't mind an OPTIONAL vetOverland mode that works on a different instance than the ''normal'' Overland, sure it would split the playerbase but not even close to how it was when the old Cadwell Silver/Gold and Vet Ranks were still around.

I personally haven't been excited combat-wise in anything related to the story since like pre-Orsinium, even though some of the later fights like Kaalgrontiid and Rada al-Saran at least had some mechanics tied to them, but since they deal so little damage it's basically just a long fight with no threat involved.

These days the only remotely engaging fights in Overland are Dragons, Harrowstorms and some DLC World Bosses but only when solo or with little players involved, otherwise they just turn into a Zergfest vs Target Dummy scenario.