Runefang wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

So not only was this thread completely ignored, they made the problem EVEN WORSE by doing the complete opposite:

Adjusted the Champion Point XP curve to speed up the rate you gain CP levels up to 1800 instead of 1020. This was done to help alleviate some of the concerns with the time required to chase the current vertical progression cap.
Note this doesn’t mean we will not make further adjustments to the vertical progression in a future update; we will be closely monitoring this through Update 29’s launch.

So we went down from 1 705 483 xp per Champion Point at 2159 to 1 365 760 xp, and now it's a trivial 798 149 xp.


Doesn't ZOS understand that higher CP players do not want their progression trivialized? It's all well and good to make sure the vertical progression is easy to cap out, but after vertical progression is over there's NO NEED to make rest of the CPs A JOKE to get. That just a big FU to everyone puts in a lot of hours on the game and serves no purpose beyond that.

There'll be CP3600s everywhere with the new scaling and no one with 3600 can feel like they accomplished something most players didn't.


So here's two ways on how you can fix this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam :

1. Easy leveling until vertical progression is capped out, then scale it up exponentially so that the amount of XP required from end of vertical progression to 3600 is the same as it is now on Live.
2. Further reduce the cost of passives, increase the cost of slottables - 12 slottables & all passives reached at 1200 CPs/whatever -> keep XP curve the same as it is on Live.

It's very easy to fix this without pissing off the players who have put in the biggest time investments into this game.

Most people sit around 1200 cp on average for high end or even 1500. Cp 2000 is an outlier

Guess what, I like being an outlier.

I think most people at high CP enjoy being outliers - why go through the effort otherwise?


If there is no impact on player power, there is also no reason for the higher end CPs to be easier to gain than they are on Live.

There is an impact on player power now. And if you want to be an outlier go grind 15 master anglers like some other people.

There is an impact only up to 1800 CPs - after that there is zero reason why the Champion Points need to be trivially easy to gain.

And you can't showcase 15x Master Anglers next to your userID and there's no online (official) Armory page like in WoW for example, so why care?

Decimus wrote: »

If it's no effort and if you care so much about it, why don't you go get CP2000+?

For the record, I also don't spend any time grinding CPs & only do BGs/Pledges (mostly to grind out Item Set Collection) & that nets me 1-2 CPs a day at 2166 currently.

Also effort doesn't mean doing something skillful, it just means investing lots of time towards a goal. Feel free to consult a dictionary.


Truth is, getting high CP is a tremendous amount of effort, not to be compared to some measly PvE achievements that hundreds/thousands of players have.

You say that it takes no effort to get PVE achievements but yet most of the effort you have to put into them nets you literally 0 CP. Parsing endlessly to get to an amount to be able to achieve something isn't effort to you? Does PVP take no effort because it doesn't give you anything that most people don't already have? Grand Overlord is the only thing you get from PVP and lots of people have it, I guess it is no effort to get. Your idea of effort is jumping on doing a random normal, random BG and getting some XP. To me that isn't effort, that is having more time. Not everyone has the time to get 1 CP a day by doing something that gives almost 1 million XP.

I still don't know why you don't like this change. Do you want to be rewarded for logging on each day and doing daily quests? Well you do, there is a daily gift that zos gives plus you get whatever the daily quests give to you. Do you want to just show off the amount of CP you have? Like I said earlier, nobody cares what CP level you are at, having lots of CP doesn't make you good all it means is you have more time to play. Whether that is time spend grinding or doing random quests is irrelevant.

codierussell wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

If it's no effort and if you care so much about it, why don't you go get CP2000+?

For the record, I also don't spend any time grinding CPs & only do BGs/Pledges (mostly to grind out Item Set Collection) & that nets me 1-2 CPs a day at 2166 currently.

Also effort doesn't mean doing something skillful, it just means investing lots of time towards a goal. Feel free to consult a dictionary.


Truth is, getting high CP is a tremendous amount of effort, not to be compared to some measly PvE achievements that hundreds/thousands of players have.

You say that it takes no effort to get PVE achievements but yet most of the effort you have to put into them nets you literally 0 CP. Parsing endlessly to get to an amount to be able to achieve something isn't effort to you? Does PVP take no effort because it doesn't give you anything that most people don't already have? Grand Overlord is the only thing you get from PVP and lots of people have it, I guess it is no effort to get. Your idea of effort is jumping on doing a random normal, random BG and getting some XP. To me that isn't effort, that is having more time. Not everyone has the time to get 1 CP a day by doing something that gives almost 1 million XP.

I still don't know why you don't like this change. Do you want to be rewarded for logging on each day and doing daily quests? Well you do, there is a daily gift that zos gives plus you get whatever the daily quests give to you. Do you want to just show off the amount of CP you have? Like I said earlier, nobody cares what CP level you are at, having lots of CP doesn't make you good all it means is you have more time to play. Whether that is time spend grinding or doing random quests is irrelevant.

It takes no effort when there's carry runs being sold left & right, and I believe I said in comparison to getting 3600 CPs it is of little effort. Just look at how many Godslayers there are and how many 3600CP accounts.

PvP is what I do mostly in ESO and while arguments could be made that it takes little to no effort in current meta to do well there, it is a lot of effort to reach Grand Overlord, yes. Is it as much effort as CP3600? No, not even close - there's even more Grand Overlords in ESO than there are Godslayers.

If you don't have time to get 3600 CPs that's on you - your time isn't any more/less valuable than mine and how you choose to spend it is your business.

And as mentioned before, you'd be surprised how many people care about your CP level - enough to comment on it atleast or remember your name in game (I remember the account names of every CP2000+ player I know of). If you don't care about it that's fine, no one is telling you should, just don't assume everyone else thinks like you do.

Juhasow wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

And I will state again that I would already have two accounts at the cap under this new system based on the amount of XP I've already accumulated, and that's without even trying to farm it after like 1000 CP (when they lifted the cap).

No You wouldn't. New cap will be sitting at around 2,2 billion of total XP. Currently to get to Your CP 2159 it's required to get 1,8 billion XP. Assuming You were grinding some of the CP's at the beggining when all of them had cost of 400k XP and You were here during all curves adjustments with each cap increase we can assume You collected something around 2 billion XP. That's far from 4,4 billion required to have 2 max CP accounts in new system. That is not even the cap on 1 account.

Fair, I was looking at the XP required per CP for reference but you're right regarding the total amount of XP required.

So this is not true in my case, but it is true in the case of many people I know in game in the 2500-3600CP range and doesn't really change anything regarding this thread.

Decimus wrote: »

If you don't have time to get 3600 CPs that's on you - your time isn't any more/less valuable than mine and how you choose to spend it is your business.

And as mentioned before, you'd be surprised how many people care about your CP level - enough to comment on it atleast or remember your name in game (I remember the account names of every CP2000+ player I know of). If you don't care about it that's fine, no one is telling you should, just don't assume everyone else thinks like you do.

Your argument is falling in on itself every time you post a comment. You are defining effort in a way that doesn't support the arguments you are making. At the end of the day you are saying that it takes a tremendous amount of effort to make it to 3600CP, everyone else is saying it takes no effort just time. At this point everyone is just arguing over different definitions on what effort is, will everyone having correct definitions. Can effort be something that takes a lot of time dedication? Yes, this is what CP 3600 would fall under. Can effort be achieving something that takes a lot of skill and mental power? Yes, this would be what things like Godslayer fall under.

You are arguing that something that just takes a lot of time is more effort than something that takes a lot of time to develop skill then execute it in a very hard way. Both are effort and most people as seen in this post think that the effort to develop skill is more effort.

codierussell wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

If you don't have time to get 3600 CPs that's on you - your time isn't any more/less valuable than mine and how you choose to spend it is your business.

And as mentioned before, you'd be surprised how many people care about your CP level - enough to comment on it atleast or remember your name in game (I remember the account names of every CP2000+ player I know of). If you don't care about it that's fine, no one is telling you should, just don't assume everyone else thinks like you do.

Your argument is falling in on itself every time you post a comment. You are defining effort in a way that doesn't support the arguments you are making. At the end of the day you are saying that it takes a tremendous amount of effort to make it to 3600CP, everyone else is saying it takes no effort just time. At this point everyone is just arguing over different definitions on what effort is, will everyone having correct definitions. Can effort be something that takes a lot of time dedication? Yes, this is what CP 3600 would fall under. Can effort be achieving something that takes a lot of skill and mental power? Yes, this would be what things like Godslayer fall under.

You are arguing that something that just takes a lot of time is more effort than something that takes a lot of time to develop skill then execute it in a very hard way. Both are effort and most people as seen in this post think that the effort to develop skill is more effort.

It doesn't take effort though, just enough in game gold (obtaining that can be a lot of effort, or it can be a lot of $$$). Obtaining that amount of gold even by just in game means (writs daily) isn't as much effort as getting CP3600.

Hence getting CP3600 = more effort than getting Godslayer.


Also how much effort getting something like Godslayer is largely depends on the skill of the player - for someone it might be an effortless task while for the other person it requires a lot of effort. Worst case scenario you spend 250m & just buy it -> 30 minutes of your day.

It's a pretty simple equation.

Juhasow wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

And I will state again that I would already have two accounts at the cap under this new system based on the amount of XP I've already accumulated, and that's without even trying to farm it after like 1000 CP (when they lifted the cap).

No You wouldn't. New cap will be sitting at around 2,2 billion of total XP. Currently to get to Your CP 2159 it's required to get 1,8 billion XP. Assuming You were grinding some of the CP's at the beggining when all of them had cost of 400k XP and You were here during all curves adjustments with each cap increase we can assume You collected something around 2 billion XP. That's far from 4,4 billion required to have 2 max CP accounts in new system. That is not even the cap on 1 account.

Fair, I was looking at the XP required per CP for reference but you're right regarding the total amount of XP required.

So this is not true in my case, but it is true in the case of many people I know in game in the 2500-3600CP range and doesn't really change anything regarding this thread.

Using words "many people" when it comes to players with over 2,5K CPs is kinda silly.

How many people like that You actually know ? 10 , 20 maybe 30 ? You've stated in one of the previous comments that it's not good for the game and for ZoS to change current state of things because of people like You who will be punished with new system but do You really think that catering progression system to few hundered people in the game where hundered of thousands if not millions plays is good for ZoS ?

It would fall in the range of precisely 11. Whether that's "many" is up to interpretation - that's just the people I know.

Again, I'm fine with people being able to achieve maximum vertical power fast - I'm not fine with people getting the higher end "prestige CPs" easier than people who spent more effort getting them because there's no point to that. The entire point of those higher end CPs is to showcase how much effort you've spent since they provide no statistical advantage anymore.

Runefang wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

If it's no effort and if you care so much about it, why don't you go get CP2000+?

For the record, I also don't spend any time grinding CPs & only do BGs/Pledges (mostly to grind out Item Set Collection) & that nets me 1-2 CPs a day at 2166 currently.

Also effort doesn't mean doing something skillful, it just means investing lots of time towards a goal. Feel free to consult a dictionary.


Truth is, getting high CP is a tremendous amount of effort, not to be compared to some measly PvE achievements that hundreds/thousands of players have.

You say that it takes no effort to get PVE achievements but yet most of the effort you have to put into them nets you literally 0 CP. Parsing endlessly to get to an amount to be able to achieve something isn't effort to you? Does PVP take no effort because it doesn't give you anything that most people don't already have? Grand Overlord is the only thing you get from PVP and lots of people have it, I guess it is no effort to get. Your idea of effort is jumping on doing a random normal, random BG and getting some XP. To me that isn't effort, that is having more time. Not everyone has the time to get 1 CP a day by doing something that gives almost 1 million XP.

I still don't know why you don't like this change. Do you want to be rewarded for logging on each day and doing daily quests? Well you do, there is a daily gift that zos gives plus you get whatever the daily quests give to you. Do you want to just show off the amount of CP you have? Like I said earlier, nobody cares what CP level you are at, having lots of CP doesn't make you good all it means is you have more time to play. Whether that is time spend grinding or doing random quests is irrelevant.

It takes no effort when there's carry runs being sold left & right, and I believe I said in comparison to getting 3600 CPs it is of little effort. Just look at how many Godslayers there are and how many 3600CP accounts.

PvP is what I do mostly in ESO and while arguments could be made that it takes little to no effort in current meta to do well there, it is a lot of effort to reach Grand Overlord, yes. Is it as much effort as CP3600? No, not even close - there's even more Grand Overlords in ESO than there are Godslayers.

If you don't have time to get 3600 CPs that's on you - your time isn't any more/less valuable than mine and how you choose to spend it is your business.

And as mentioned before, you'd be surprised how many people care about your CP level - enough to comment on it atleast or remember your name in game (I remember the account names of every CP2000+ player I know of). If you don't care about it that's fine, no one is telling you should, just don't assume everyone else thinks like you do.

Skyreach carries are being sold left and right too. Shrug.

Yes they are, but that's not even the best way of grinding XP.


Running Skyreach with a friend (you really don't need to buy those runs) 20 hours a day would still take around a year to reach maximum CP under current system.

With Master Writs it can be done a lot faster (WritWorthy addon, lots of writs in inventory -> do 100 writs->150% XP Event 100% XP->turn in everything=2,7m XP in 15-20 minutes), but it's still 617 hours of doing that and billions of in game gold spent on Master Writs (assuming there's enough of them in the market to keep that rate of XP going) to reach CP3600.

As opposed to 30 minutes of your time & 250m gold that getting something like Godslayer would take, in the worst case scenario.

phantasmalD wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

On Live getting CP #2160 would take 1 705 483 experience.

Back in 2015 it would have taken 4 489 356 exp, so come back when you achieved lv 2160 for real, you poser. :P

And CP3600 would have needed a total of 13.4 billion xp, if my calculations are correct, so that graph is inaccurate.

The "CP1.0" on the graph is what we have right now on Live.


But yes, back when the cap was 501 the latter CPs would've required a lot more experience - the difference is that there weren't people at high enough CP who could complain about their progression being trivialized.

Since then the cap was increased slightly (by 30 points) each patch and small incremental changes like that everyone was fine with.

We can't talk about a small incremental change however when the "cap" gets raised by 990 points and amount of xp required to hit 3600 more than halved. This would be fine if there were more points than 3600, but that's not the case and people will hit the end of a system that was designed to provide long term character progression.

If every update since Murkmire had had the same 30 point increase, we would have the "cap" at 240 points above the current 810 (i.e. 1050), not 990 points.


In an ideal world that'd be the case & CP 1050 would be the end of vertical progression - that's however not the case.

Duplomancer wrote: »

So post 1800 (or whatever number) CP is where the "useless" CP are. Why should they be harder to get? If anything the curve should reverse and get easier for the "useless" CP. Why work harder for something that is less than?

Because there's a finite number of these points and you want to keep players feeling like they're progressing their characters & gain something out of the time they spend doing the same dungeons/trials for the 2769th time?

Or maybe because that point also serves as a catch up point, meaning that people at high CP don't get too far ahead of lower CP players in case they ever decide to increase the amount of vertical power?


Just a few good reasons.

[snip]

to anyone who went through a lot of effort to get high CP with the old XP values.

You grinded XP just for the sake of grinding XP? Because up until now, you got nothing from being above 810 aside from your self-appointed participation trophy.

If that's what you're after, consider it granted, unless your real concern is not having the power gap you somehow think you deserve. Alternately, if your concern was hitting cap, you've already missed that boat.

You're either capable in this game, or you aren't. The CP difference, or lack thereof isn't going to be indicative of anything more than a number, just as it is right now.

We didn't get extra CP when it first transferred based on the number of VR character levels we had, it was only based on the highest character rank. This is no different, and just as equally unnecessary.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

CombatRecon11B wrote: »

Duplomancer wrote: »

CombatRecon11B wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I have no clue what you are even talking about.

[Quoted post was removed]

Uh ok then. Some sort of weird forum thing? Cause I rarely post? If you are going to call me out, at least clarify wtf you are on about.

Decimus wrote: »

We can't talk about a small incremental change however when the "cap" gets raised by 990 points and amount of xp required to hit 3600 more than halved. This would be fine if there were more points than 3600, but that's not the case and people will hit the end of a system that was designed to provide long term character progression.

I mean do you know why it's 3600 points? Because CP 1.0 has 36 stars, all of them requiring 100 points to max. It's not a 'lolrandom' high number that was meant to be unachivable by all but the most hardcorest grinders so they can stroke their ego. It's just quite literally the upper limit to the system and was designed to one day be easily achievable.

The XP formula was written so that once the cap was fully lifted going from 3599 to 3600 would only take 450k XP. The original design goal included lowering the grind for everyone, not just newer players. You are essentially asking for something that was never intended (preserving the total amount of XP required).

Decimus wrote: »

But yes, back when the cap was 501 the latter CPs would've required a lot more experience - the difference is that there weren't people at high enough CP who could complain about their progression being trivialized.

Maybe because it's a silly thing to want and ask for harder grind. Especially when they can expand the system whenever they want.

CombatRecon11B wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

[snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

I don't know how seriously I can take this from someone with "only four forum stars." I mean, it hardly seems like you're trying?

[snip]

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Seriously, I call BS.

to anyone who went through a lot of effort to get high CP with the old XP values.

You grinded XP just for the sake of grinding XP? Because up until now, you got nothing from being above 810 aside from your self-appointed participation trophy.

If that's what you're after, consider it granted, unless your real concern is not having the power gap you somehow think you deserve. Alternately, if your concern was hitting cap, you've already missed that boat.

You're either capable in this game, or you aren't. The CP difference, or lack thereof isn't going to be indicative of anything more than a number, just as it is right now.

We didn't get extra CP when it first transferred based on the number of VR character levels we had, it was only based on the highest character rank. This is no different, and just as equally unnecessary.

I'm not asking for extra CPs or free CPs, that's the last thing I'd want to see. Go over the original post again.

Xebov wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

In fact, I'm yet to hear anyone mention why CPs beyond 1800 should be easier to get than they are on Live - what possible reason is there to want all 3600 CPs with less effort than other people had to go through if there's no power increase after 1800...

Its different playstyles. Everything beyond the vertical progression is just horizontal. That part is differently important to players depending on how they play the game.

Some players create lots of highly specialized characters, while other create only a few less specialized ones or even only play one. The more specialized characters a player has the less improtant the horizontal progression becomes as the player will just spend the CP accordingly. The less specialized characters someone has the more important the horizontal progression becomes to enable several uses on the same character.

This situation means that high CP becomes an unimportant status symbol for some, while it is a requirement for others, purely depending on the need in total points. This is why some ppl want to have the curve flat enought to progress fast, while others want it higher.

Well if they want max CP for basically free just to avoid respec costs while missing the entire point of the system... F them.


These people truly are the death of MMOs: "this person has better gear than me, I want it now!" "this person has bigger number next to his character, not fair!" "that one has a cool title but I can't get it, make it easier to get!" "I can't beat that one in PvP, nerf everything he plays!"

It's the same story... sadly these developers apparently listen to this kinda talk - I hope they won't be surprised when people leave for other games that take hardcore players more seriously.

Ruder wrote: »

@Decimus I don't understand your desire to grind, I`m pretty happy with the 1800CP change, previously to get from 1300 to 2000 CP would of take me 3 years, now this time will be probably cut in half.

Only thing I care about is to reach the CP Soft Cap as soon as possible in order to not be in even slight disadvantage in CP PVP.

Yes, and I'm happy that the vertical power cap can be easily reached. In fact, the vertical power should be capped way lower, at like 1200 CPs at most.

What I'm not happy with is that CPs will mean absolutely nothing when CP1800->3600 (so beyond the vertical power cap) takes less than half the time it does on Live and basically anyone can reach it, at which point there is no way to progress your character anymore and thus no reasons to really log in either, veterans of this game will be indistinguishable from newer players and there's nothing that makes people go "wow" when they see your character anymore, and the number next to your userID.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Imagine being a transfer, you’ve played this game for 5 years on Xbox, put the time in.... do you expect someone to buy an account on PC and break the rules just to play at high CP like you’re used to... gross.

Just don’t get mad at newer people being able to catch up. Going from nothing to max is so daunting. When you’re an experienced player... you just wanna play at your normal skill level again. I’ve leveled 2 accounts over 4 years, playing every single day. One around 1,600 CP and the other is just 970. That took years. No I don’t want to sit there and grind my entire gameplay away in Spell Scar. I actually WANT to have fun and PvP.

Also some say “well making it easier will make people run out of things to do”

Lol! We’ve had a cap of 810 for the longest time..

Think about the people who have to work all day, transfers, and experienced players who’ve taken breaks from eso... making it easier to get 1800 is good.