XP Curve Adjusted - But Why?

Elo106

Decimus wrote: »

Here's an easy solution: keep an easy XP curve until the end of vertical progression and then ramp it up so that the xp required to reach CP3600 stays the same as it is right now.
That way everyone is happy.

Thats exactly what they did vertical prog ended at 1850ish before last patch (last patch made some stuff cheaper have to check it out again).
You dont want it changed just so you can flex but dont care about the negative effects?

Decimus wrote: »

What meaning does putting in a lot of time into this game have anymore if casual & hardcore players will be virtually indistinguishable in game?

There are still titles and skins and a mount you can flex. Maybe they could add a title for people like you who got to X CP before the change?

codierussell

This is the one area where someone is complaining to make CP harder to get. You are in such a small minority because you think that progressing in CP number but not actually using the CP is the main reason to play the game. Why have it take 5 more years to hit max CP and never give anyone the chance to get to 3600 and the devs add more to the CP tree. Like they said they fully plan on expanding the trees which means that at some point they will increase the 3600 cap. The quicker everyone gets there the more things they will be willing to add. Even at 2200 CP you will still need 1.5 billion exp to get to 3600. There is still a grind to be max cp.

Decimus

Elo106 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Here's an easy solution: keep an easy XP curve until the end of vertical progression and then ramp it up so that the xp required to reach CP3600 stays the same as it is right now.
That way everyone is happy.

Thats exactly what they did vertical prog ended at 1850ish before last patch (last patch made some stuff cheaper have to check it out again).
You dont want it changed just so you can flex but dont care about the negative effects?

That's exactly what they didn't do - they made it easier to get to 1800 and they made it easier to get from 1800->3600.

This is the problem, there's literally no reason to do that if vertical progression ends at 1800 already.

For comparison, with the new values CP 3599->3600 requires only 1 269 827xp while it currently requires 2 808 472xp.

The total amount of XP to cap out the non-vertical progression of CP 2.0 should remain the same or it'll be completely irrelevant to have high CP in game as it will become trivially easy.

Elo106 wrote: »

There are still titles and skins and a mount you can flex. Maybe they could add a title for people like you who got to X CP before the change?

People can buy carry runs for all these, seeing "Godslayer" doesn't really mean anything anymore either - there's around 500 Godslayers for every CP3600 right now.

codierussell

Decimus wrote: »

People can buy carry runs for all these, seeing "Godslayer" doesn't really mean anything anymore either - there's around 500 Godslayers for every CP3600 right now.

I don't know anyone selling Godslayer carries and doubt there ever will be. There are two players at 3600CP so by your account there are 1000 players with Godslayer? That isn't right.

You are asking ZOS to change the CP formula after 1800 so you can "flex" like it makes you a better player or something? I really don't understand your logic at all, you still have 1.5 billion XP until you are capped you have a long way to go even with the reduced numbers.

MrZeDark

codierussell wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

People can buy carry runs for all these, seeing "Godslayer" doesn't really mean anything anymore either - there's around 500 Godslayers for every CP3600 right now.

I don't know anyone selling Godslayer carries and doubt there ever will be. There are two players at 3600CP so by your account there are 1000 players with Godslayer? That isn't right.

You are asking ZOS to change the CP formula after 1800 so you can "flex" like it makes you a better player or something? I really don't understand your logic at all, you still have 1.5 billion XP until you are capped you have a long way to go even with the reduced numbers.

I agree -- arguing against rapid CP growth is just so not gonna be hot for most people. The fact that people pay for SKY Reach to hit 810 already, means now people will pay to get to 1800. Nothing is changing at being at Max CP and it is not a flex, it's tired, it's old-- and I'm rdy for progression.

I know plenty of high CP toons who still don't even get basic mechanics in End Game, but hey - at least their CP lets them enjoy the rest of the game they do play.

I'm excited about the swing to 1800 and I'm already far past 810. I personally don't want to feel a 'grind' but also don't want to feel like 1 level a day is progress.

lillybit

I mean if you're going to have a cap (however high), it should be achievable. Making it something that the majority of the playerbase won't reach during the lifetime of the game doesn't make sense.

Reaching 3600 doesn't mean you're "finished" any more than getting to 810 does currently. The cap hasn't moved for 2 years so obviously the lack of progression isn't a deal breaker for most.

I'm not even half way there yet but if new players can catch up to me, where's the harm? It doesn't hurt me that others get to a level where they can complete end game content quicker

codierussell

@MrZeDark Honestly it makes me more likely to do other content like vMA, vVH, and random normals or BGs just for the XP boost they will give. Right now I am at 1100CP and have about 250 million XP needed to hit 1800CP, so being an endgame player I am already looking at ways to get there fast. All training gear with 150% XP boost is still going to be a grind fest, but at least it will have me playing the game. As of right now if I don't have a trial or a group for 4 man content I just play a different game, now with this I can grind up CP at a decent rate. As is on live right now if I'm not enlightened it takes almost an hour to gain 1 CP. If it were to stay like that I wouldn't put effort into it, and if I need that CP to be competitive with other trials guilds I would probably stop playing altogether.

Juhasow

Decimus wrote: »

What meaning does putting in a lot of time into this game have anymore if casual & hardcore players will be virtually indistinguishable in game?

Yes because currently all players with high CP are pros and all low CP players are noobs. /s
I'm pretty much sure casual and hardcore players will be very indistinguishable in game.
If You're served a poop and a cake and both have the same price tag sticked to them You can no more tell the difference ?

Decimus

codierussell wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

People can buy carry runs for all these, seeing "Godslayer" doesn't really mean anything anymore either - there's around 500 Godslayers for every CP3600 right now.

I don't know anyone selling Godslayer carries and doubt there ever will be. There are two players at 3600CP so by your account there are 1000 players with Godslayer? That isn't right.

You are asking ZOS to change the CP formula after 1800 so you can "flex" like it makes you a better player or something? I really don't understand your logic at all, you still have 1.5 billion XP until you are capped you have a long way to go even with the reduced numbers.

I'm asking ZOS to keep it as it is so that there's something people get out of their time put into the game. Is it such a weird concept that someone would want something to show for for putting in so much effort into something?

In other games like World of Warcraft you can inspect players & see their achievements, mount collections etc - none of this exists in ESO, there's not a lot of ways to "flex" in game as you put it - CP number is pretty much the only thing visible to other players that still holds any value or isn't common place (when it comes to really high CP numbers).


And yes, I'd be surprised if there wasn't 1000+ players with Godslayer right now on PC EU, you'll probably spot one every time you port to Rimmen wayshrine. The going rate for a Godslayer carry is around 250m gold.

lillybit

Decimus wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

People can buy carry runs for all these, seeing "Godslayer" doesn't really mean anything anymore either - there's around 500 Godslayers for every CP3600 right now.

I don't know anyone selling Godslayer carries and doubt there ever will be. There are two players at 3600CP so by your account there are 1000 players with Godslayer? That isn't right.

You are asking ZOS to change the CP formula after 1800 so you can "flex" like it makes you a better player or something? I really don't understand your logic at all, you still have 1.5 billion XP until you are capped you have a long way to go even with the reduced numbers.

I'm asking ZOS to keep it as it is so that there's something people get out of their time put into the game. Is it such a weird concept that someone would want something to show for for putting in so much effort into something?

In other games like World of Warcraft you can inspect players & see their achievements, mount collections etc - none of this exists in ESO, there's not a lot of ways to "flex" in game as you put it - CP number is pretty much the only thing visible to other players that still holds any value or isn't common place.


And yes, I'd be surprised if there wasn't 1000+ players with Godslayer right now on PC EU, you'll probably spot one every time you port to Rimmen wayshrine. The going rate for a Godslayer carry is around 250m gold.

Literally anyone can get to high cp just by killing zombies for long enough. What does it prove? Yes people can buy title and skin runs but it's still a better indication of progress than a random number that takes no skill to get.

If you want to display your achievements, houses are a good way of doing it. Set up a gallery of your trophies and anything else you've had to earn, your vSS mount maybe. Also, on console you can see other players progress in the way of trophies. It surprises me that PC wouldn't have anything like that?

I'm sure you have the best intentions but it just comes across as you wanting levelling to be harder just so you can feel superior. If that's all there is to get out of the game, maybe you should play something you'll enjoy more

codierussell

@Decimus except having high CP isn't a flex, as pointed out from other posts there are a lot of really high CP players that suck at this game. There are a lot of ways to show off in this game such as skins, titles, and mounts. You are asking ZOS to make it harder to gain CP for the sole purpose to show others that you play this game more than them. I am sorry but you are one of the very very few that think this way. You can keep complaining but this won't change as pretty much everyone else wants to play the game, not grind CP to show everyone they have more time to run in circles.

I will state again, you still need 1.5 billion XP for yourself to get to cap, that is a ton of XP. It's not like in a month you are just going to happen to get there casually playing the game. You are still going to be ahead of most people in the game and in your eyes "look cool", and nobody is going to magically pass you because of it. You want something to work for well you still do if in your eyes 3600 CP is an achievement that is worth having. Myself and 99% of the player base don't care and play the game for the content, not some arbitrary level number that isn't even really a cap because you can invest more than that in the CP trees.

zaria

Decimus wrote: »

Here's the issue:


On Live getting CP #2160 would take 1 705 483 experience. On PTS, this amount of XP required is cut down by almost 20% as you can see on the screenshot.

Why?

There's no reason to make the grind easier at high CPs if horizontal progression kicks in at around 1400 CPs anyway with the new system, so why lessen the sense of accomplishment for players at high CP by making the grind trivial and easy? This is just a big middle finger from ZOS to anyone who went through a lot of effort to get high CP with the old XP values.

Right now if you see someone at 2k+ CPs you know they've been playing for a while - with the new system having a high CP will mean nothing and there'll be plenty of CP3600 players by the end of the year..


Here's an easy solution: keep an easy XP curve until the end of vertical progression and then ramp it up so that the xp required to reach CP3600 stays the same as it is right now.
That way everyone is happy.

Ok so you complain that it will take 20% less but still 1.300.000 xp to get an new level and you have 1.400 levels to cap.
So more than 3 years playing as an active player playing some hour every day.

Note the new cp system can go past 3600 who was max with the old but not the new.

People ask for more gind, at least its original.
Found grinding only make you go in circles.

zaria

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

People think they want to be max level max everything fast fast, but what really happens once you reach that point is that you run out of reasons to keep playing - especially if that number at the end means absolutely nothing since everyone else has it next to their name as well.

If this was the case, then why would people continue to play for the past few years while we've been locked to 810.

Plus, who knows, this system shows growth. I can see them eventually raising the hard cap from 3600 to allow the playerbase more room to level, because why wouldn't you when they plan on releasing more stars. They could easily start increasing the cap by 100 every DLC like they use to by 30.

You also need to consider you're probably in the minority of the game in terms of how much you play on average. You're saying it will be super easy, but you're sitting at 2159cp and you probably play 2-4 hours a day. Not many casuals have that much time. Jesus, steam tells me I have 3000+ hours in ESO and I'm only 1150. I never cared for exp, but I think that says something.

Theres a poll somewhere on the forums for voting on your current CP and I don't think I remember many people were north of 2k. As I said, the position of thinking "wow that dude has played a lot" will just shift upwards with time.

Yes remember that poll, 1100-1500 is considered the played since beta but might had a break group.
In short not casual players. Might be bad players but that is not this discussion.

Personal I would get rid of the +50% cost to xp above cp cap at all as its no cp cap anymore, that rule made some sense during the current system with the +30 cp increase every 3rd month as you wanted to limit how far people wold get of the cap, now you could increase cost much more at the end.

Decimus

lillybit wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

People can buy carry runs for all these, seeing "Godslayer" doesn't really mean anything anymore either - there's around 500 Godslayers for every CP3600 right now.

I don't know anyone selling Godslayer carries and doubt there ever will be. There are two players at 3600CP so by your account there are 1000 players with Godslayer? That isn't right.

You are asking ZOS to change the CP formula after 1800 so you can "flex" like it makes you a better player or something? I really don't understand your logic at all, you still have 1.5 billion XP until you are capped you have a long way to go even with the reduced numbers.

I'm asking ZOS to keep it as it is so that there's something people get out of their time put into the game. Is it such a weird concept that someone would want something to show for for putting in so much effort into something?

In other games like World of Warcraft you can inspect players & see their achievements, mount collections etc - none of this exists in ESO, there's not a lot of ways to "flex" in game as you put it - CP number is pretty much the only thing visible to other players that still holds any value or isn't common place.


And yes, I'd be surprised if there wasn't 1000+ players with Godslayer right now on PC EU, you'll probably spot one every time you port to Rimmen wayshrine. The going rate for a Godslayer carry is around 250m gold.

Literally anyone can get to high cp just by killing zombies for long enough. What does it prove? Yes people can buy title and skin runs but it's still a better indication of progress than a random number that takes no skill to get.

If you want to display your achievements, houses are a good way of doing it. Set up a gallery of your trophies and anything else you've had to earn, your vSS mount maybe. Also, on console you can see other players progress in the way of trophies. It surprises me that PC wouldn't have anything like that?

I'm sure you have the best intentions but it just comes across as you wanting levelling to be harder just so you can feel superior. If that's all there is to get out of the game, maybe you should play something you'll enjoy more

It proves that you've spent a lot of time killing zombies (or better yet, doing master writs if you really want to min-max). But it's not really about proving anything, it's about getting something out of the time you spend in game in terms of character progression.

And as mentioned before, achievements are meaningless and don't really get you anything for spending a lot of time in game (there's some time consuming ones, but they pale in comparison to getting CP3600). In fact, most of the people with Godslayer I've seen have had less than 2000 CP so it's unlikely they've spent that much time in the game.

Again, it's about getting something out of the time you spend playing and how the CP system works right now on Live is a very good example of a functional system in that regard.

Also I hope you realize that rather than playing something else I prefer pointing out the problem on the forums so that people like me don't have to go play something else - that wouldn't be very good for the game or for ZOS.

And trust me, I will be playing something else when a new MMO that's a bit more serious about keeping more long-term/hardcore players around releases.

Why do you feel like you're entitled to the same amount of CPs as someone else who has spent way more time & effort to achieve that?

There's something to ponder.

codierussell wrote: »

@Decimus except having high CP isn't a flex, as pointed out from other posts there are a lot of really high CP players that suck at this game. There are a lot of ways to show off in this game such as skins, titles, and mounts. You are asking ZOS to make it harder to gain CP for the sole purpose to show others that you play this game more than them. I am sorry but you are one of the very very few that think this way. You can keep complaining but this won't change as pretty much everyone else wants to play the game, not grind CP to show everyone they have more time to run in circles.

Yes, there are a lot of high CP players who aren't that great at the game - well observed. Who said it was anything about skill in the first place?

I'd love to have actual performance based MMR in PvP that's visible to other players, I'd love to have ranked 2v2 arenas or any other skill based things to have next to my userID. But we don't have those. Any of those.

What we have is the "how much effort I've spent" CP number - but apparently we can't have even that because some people want to have what those who spent hundreds of days of played time achieving with less effort. To what end I wonder, if there is no vertical progression after 1800 anyway?

codierussell wrote: »

I will state again, you still need 1.5 billion XP for yourself to get to cap, that is a ton of XP. It's not like in a month you are just going to happen to get there casually playing the game. You are still going to be ahead of most people in the game and in your eyes "look cool", and nobody is going to magically pass you because of it. You want something to work for well you still do if in your eyes 3600 CP is an achievement that is worth having. Myself and 99% of the player base don't care and play the game for the content, not some arbitrary level number that isn't even really a cap because you can invest more than that in the CP trees.

And I will state again that I would already have two accounts at the cap under this new system based on the amount of XP I've already accumulated, and that's without even trying to farm it after like 1000 CP (when they lifted the cap). There's plenty of people with way higher CP who would be max CP 3-4 times already under the new values.

Within a year we'll have people who have played 1-2 years that you can't distinguish from someone who's been playing for 7 years.

Also, it's strange for someone who "doesn't care" to be arguing about this when I literally stated the progression rate should remain as it is (not become easier) after the vertical cap. If it doesn't matter, why weigh in in the first place?

codierussell

Decimus wrote: »

And I will state again that I would already have two accounts at the cap under this new system based on the amount of XP I've already accumulated, and that's without even trying to farm it after like 1000 CP (when they lifted the cap). There's plenty of people with way higher CP who would be max CP 3-4 times already under the new values.

Within a year we'll have people who have played 1-2 years that you can't distinguish from someone who's been playing for 7 years.

You do realise that ZOS has already stated this CP was a starting point not the end point? Also there is enough nodes in the new CP system for over 6000CP to be spent on the first week of PTS, I haven't counted since they made the changes last week but it will still be well over 3600. So you are upset that they made it quicker to get to the 3600 current cap but didn't realise that ZOS had plans of continuing past 3600.

My previous statement about not caring was in reference to what CP you were at and how much time you put into getting there. There is literally nothing to show for it, it isn't like players are going to walk around, see you at 3600 CP and think "man that guy must have played a lot to get there". No everyone is not going to care about that number over your head other than you and like I said before you are the very small minority that is getting anything out of being 3600. What I see at 3600 and most people see is being able to have more convenience in the active nodes I have maxed out and able to slot without paying gold to change them.

Duplomancer

"Within a year we'll have people who have played 1-2 years that you can't distinguish from someone who's been playing for 7 years."

I already cannot distinguish these 2 different people. Partly because I don't care, partly because I play with people around the same CP as me that have been playing for many years more than I have.

You want recognition, I get that, but making it part of CP in the way you suggest is not the way to go. They should create some veteran packs for playing for x amount of time. Say each year you get a personality to equip, or some other neat thing that you can display. Make it so that you would have had to play during that year for a certain amount of time to qualify. That way people like me who's account was created day one, do not just roll in and scoop them up even though I did not play for some 5 years.

If they did it right, I would be a hell of a lot cooler than some number.

renne

Decimus wrote: »

What meaning does putting in a lot of time into this game have anymore if casual & hardcore players will be virtually indistinguishable in game?

Um. You know they already are, right?

CP means absolutely nothing about someone's competence in the game, it LITERALLY just means that either they've played the game for a long time or they've ground for a lot of XP. CP is nothing more than a number that indicates that the account being played has earned x amount of XP in their total game time since whatever date they started playing.

Decimus

codierussell wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

And I will state again that I would already have two accounts at the cap under this new system based on the amount of XP I've already accumulated, and that's without even trying to farm it after like 1000 CP (when they lifted the cap). There's plenty of people with way higher CP who would be max CP 3-4 times already under the new values.

Within a year we'll have people who have played 1-2 years that you can't distinguish from someone who's been playing for 7 years.

You do realise that ZOS has already stated this CP was a starting point not the end point? Also there is enough nodes in the new CP system for over 6000CP to be spent on the first week of PTS, I haven't counted since they made the changes last week but it will still be well over 3600. So you are upset that they made it quicker to get to the 3600 current cap but didn't realise that ZOS had plans of continuing past 3600.

My previous statement about not caring was in reference to what CP you were at and how much time you put into getting there. There is literally nothing to show for it, it isn't like players are going to walk around, see you at 3600 CP and think "man that guy must have played a lot to get there". No everyone is not going to care about that number over your head other than you and like I said before you are the very small minority that is getting anything out of being 3600. What I see at 3600 and most people see is being able to have more convenience in the active nodes I have maxed out and able to slot without paying gold to change them.

They've stated they want to expand the system - the way I read that is that they want to add more passives so there's more options, not that they'd want to increase the cap. And if they are going to increase the cap, that'll probably happen when half the server has been sitting at 3600 for years given how easy it is to reach now.

So no, a vague "we're going to do more with this system" doesn't really reassure me at all.


Also about people not caring, you'd be surprised how often even my 2200 CPs make people go "wow 2000 CPs" when I random queue into a dungeon or a BG - I can only imagine how it is for those at the cap.

In fact there are players at the cap whose names I know in game only because they are at the cap - it's not something you see all the time and it's something one can respect.

lillybit

But CP has no relation to "how much effort you've spent." I've done vet trial progs that have taken a great deal of time and effort and netted me very few CP. Dummy humping for hours and hours on end gets you no CP. I know someone who's been playing for years and 50% of the time is levelling new characters to try new builds. 50% of their time they aren't getting CP.

I've been playing almost every day since console release and I'm only on 1500 (but I can say with 100% certainty that 0 of it came from grinding). That doesn't mean I've put in less effort than someone who's put in the same hours just zombie grinding for twice the CP. Grinding isn't effort. You don't have to work for it. I mean you could do it running in circles and just pressing a single button over and over. It's a completely meaningless number because the easiest way to get it higher is to use no skill whatsoever!

renne

Duplomancer wrote: »

"Within a year we'll have people who have played 1-2 years that you can't distinguish from someone who's been playing for 7 years."

I already cannot distinguish these 2 different people. Partly because I don't care, partly because I play with people around the same CP as me that have been playing for many years more than I have.

This. I've been playing under 2 years. I have about 970CP. I have a friend who has been playing 5-7 years and has probably like 1100CP.

And when we stand next to each other in game, we both appear to have 810CP.

Decimus

renne wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

What meaning does putting in a lot of time into this game have anymore if casual & hardcore players will be virtually indistinguishable in game?

Um. You know they already are, right?

CP means absolutely nothing about someone's competence in the game, it LITERALLY just means that either they've played the game for a long time or they've ground for a lot of XP. CP is nothing more than a number that indicates that the account being played has earned x amount of XP in their total game time since whatever date they started playing.

Yes, I wrote this earlier to a similar point being made:

Decimus wrote:

Yes, there are a lot of high CP players who aren't that great at the game - well observed. Who said it was anything about skill in the first place?

I'd love to have actual performance based MMR in PvP that's visible to other players, I'd love to have ranked 2v2 arenas or any other skill based things to have next to my userID. But we don't have those. Any of those.

What we have is the "how much effort I've spent" CP number - but apparently we can't have even that because some people want to have what those who spent hundreds of days of played time achieving with less effort. To what end I wonder, if there is no vertical progression after 1800 anyway?

renne wrote: »

Duplomancer wrote: »

"Within a year we'll have people who have played 1-2 years that you can't distinguish from someone who's been playing for 7 years."

I already cannot distinguish these 2 different people. Partly because I don't care, partly because I play with people around the same CP as me that have been playing for many years more than I have.

This. I've been playing under 2 years. I have about 970CP. I have a friend who has been playing 5-7 years and has probably like 1100CP.

And when we stand next to each other in game, we both appear to have 810CP.

If you have an addon like Bandit's UI that showcases the CP level of the player you're targeting.

Decimus

lillybit wrote: »

But CP has no relation to "how much effort you've spent." I've done vet trial progs that have taken a great deal of time and effort and netted me very few CP. Dummy humping for hours and hours on end gets you no CP. I know someone who's been playing for years and 50% of the time is levelling new characters to try new builds. 50% of their time they aren't getting CP.

I've been playing almost every day since console release and I'm only on 1500 (but I can say with 100% certainty that 0 of it came from grinding). That doesn't mean I've put in less effort than someone who's put in the same hours just zombie grinding for twice the CP. Grinding isn't effort. You don't have to work for it. I mean you could do it running in circles and just pressing a single button over and over. It's a completely meaningless number because the easiest way to get it higher is to use no skill whatsoever!

If it's no effort and if you care so much about it, why don't you go get CP2000+?

For the record, I also don't spend any time grinding CPs & only do BGs/Pledges (mostly to grind out Item Set Collection) & that nets me 1-2 CPs a day at 2166 currently.

Also effort doesn't mean doing something skillful, it just means investing lots of time towards a goal. Feel free to consult a dictionary.


Truth is, getting high CP is a tremendous amount of effort, not to be compared to some measly PvE achievements that hundreds/thousands of players have.

lillybit

Decimus wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

But CP has no relation to "how much effort you've spent." I've done vet trial progs that have taken a great deal of time and effort and netted me very few CP. Dummy humping for hours and hours on end gets you no CP. I know someone who's been playing for years and 50% of the time is levelling new characters to try new builds. 50% of their time they aren't getting CP.

I've been playing almost every day since console release and I'm only on 1500 (but I can say with 100% certainty that 0 of it came from grinding). That doesn't mean I've put in less effort than someone who's put in the same hours just zombie grinding for twice the CP. Grinding isn't effort. You don't have to work for it. I mean you could do it running in circles and just pressing a single button over and over. It's a completely meaningless number because the easiest way to get it higher is to use no skill whatsoever!

If it's no effort and if you care so much about it, why don't you go get CP2000+?

For the record, I also don't spend any time grinding CPs & only do BGs/Pledges (mostly to grind out Item Set Collection) & that nets me 1-2 CPs a day at 2166 currently.

Also effort doesn't mean doing something skillful, it just means investing lots of time towards a goal. Feel free to consult a dictionary.


Truth is, getting high CP is a tremendous amount of effort, not to be compared to some measly PvE achievements that hundreds/thousands of players have.

It's pointless arguing with you. Time spent is not equal to effort but we aren't ever going to see things from each others perspective so I'm done trying to explain it.

I'll just add to the many voices here that have said your view is in the minority and leave it at that.

Starlight_Whisper

Decimus wrote: »

Here's the issue:


On Live getting CP #2160 would take 1 705 483 experience. On PTS, this amount of XP required is cut down by almost 20% as you can see on the screenshot.

Why?

There's no reason to make the grind easier at high CPs if horizontal progression kicks in at around 1400 CPs anyway with the new system, so why lessen the sense of accomplishment for players at high CP by making the grind trivial and easy? This is just a big middle finger from ZOS to anyone who went through a lot of effort to get high CP with the old XP values.

Right now if you see someone at 2k+ CPs you know they've been playing for a while - with the new system having a high CP will mean nothing and there'll be plenty of CP3600 players by the end of the year..


Here's an easy solution: keep an easy XP curve until the end of vertical progression and then ramp it up so that the xp required to reach CP3600 stays the same as it is right now.
That way everyone is happy.

Cause it's bloody fair for new and old players now

karekiz

New curve makes MUCH more sense. XP should always be based on activities available to players with little playtime. 2K for 800K xp makes sense in context on randoms being the XP they are.

Starlight_Whisper

Decimus wrote: »

So not only was this thread completely ignored, they made the problem EVEN WORSE by doing the complete opposite:

Adjusted the Champion Point XP curve to speed up the rate you gain CP levels up to 1800 instead of 1020. This was done to help alleviate some of the concerns with the time required to chase the current vertical progression cap.
Note this doesn’t mean we will not make further adjustments to the vertical progression in a future update; we will be closely monitoring this through Update 29’s launch.

So we went down from 1 705 483 xp per Champion Point at 2159 to 1 365 760 xp, and now it's a trivial 798 149 xp.


Doesn't ZOS understand that higher CP players do not want their progression trivialized? It's all well and good to make sure the vertical progression is easy to cap out, but after vertical progression is over there's NO NEED to make rest of the CPs A JOKE to get. That just a big FU to everyone puts in a lot of hours on the game and serves no purpose beyond that.

There'll be CP3600s everywhere with the new scaling and no one with 3600 can feel like they accomplished something most players didn't.


So here's two ways on how you can fix this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam :

1. Easy leveling until vertical progression is capped out, then scale it up exponentially so that the amount of XP required from end of vertical progression to 3600 is the same as it is now on Live.
2. Further reduce the cost of passives, increase the cost of slottables - 12 slottables & all passives reached at 1200 CPs/whatever -> keep XP curve the same as it is on Live.

It's very easy to fix this without pissing off the players who have put in the biggest time investments into this game.

Most people sit around 1200 cp on average for high end or even 1500. Cp 2000 is an outlier

Decimus

lillybit wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

lillybit wrote: »

But CP has no relation to "how much effort you've spent." I've done vet trial progs that have taken a great deal of time and effort and netted me very few CP. Dummy humping for hours and hours on end gets you no CP. I know someone who's been playing for years and 50% of the time is levelling new characters to try new builds. 50% of their time they aren't getting CP.

I've been playing almost every day since console release and I'm only on 1500 (but I can say with 100% certainty that 0 of it came from grinding). That doesn't mean I've put in less effort than someone who's put in the same hours just zombie grinding for twice the CP. Grinding isn't effort. You don't have to work for it. I mean you could do it running in circles and just pressing a single button over and over. It's a completely meaningless number because the easiest way to get it higher is to use no skill whatsoever!

If it's no effort and if you care so much about it, why don't you go get CP2000+?

For the record, I also don't spend any time grinding CPs & only do BGs/Pledges (mostly to grind out Item Set Collection) & that nets me 1-2 CPs a day at 2166 currently.

Also effort doesn't mean doing something skillful, it just means investing lots of time towards a goal. Feel free to consult a dictionary.


Truth is, getting high CP is a tremendous amount of effort, not to be compared to some measly PvE achievements that hundreds/thousands of players have.

It's pointless arguing with you. Time spent is not equal to effort but we aren't ever going to see things from each others perspective so I'm done trying to explain it.

I'll just add to the many voices here that have said your view is in the minority and leave it at that.

Yes, my view is in the minority because casuals are a vast majority in this MMO. Very well aware of that.

Does that mean the opinions of more hardcore players don't matter? No. Or it shouldn't, but it sure feels like that based on the changes made by ZOS. Hence the forum thread.

Also here's a dictionary entry for "effort":
effort
noun
UK /ˈef.ət/ US /ˈef.ɚt/

B1 [ C or U ]
physical or mental activity needed to achieve something:


Here's an example:
reading isn't difficult, but reading through an entire library is a lot of effort


I hope that clears things up, for something to be a lot of effort it doesn't have to be a skill based task.

Runefang

High CP is irrelevant as it’s only a sign of a lot of play time that involves consistent XP gain.

Decimus

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

So not only was this thread completely ignored, they made the problem EVEN WORSE by doing the complete opposite:

Adjusted the Champion Point XP curve to speed up the rate you gain CP levels up to 1800 instead of 1020. This was done to help alleviate some of the concerns with the time required to chase the current vertical progression cap.
Note this doesn’t mean we will not make further adjustments to the vertical progression in a future update; we will be closely monitoring this through Update 29’s launch.

So we went down from 1 705 483 xp per Champion Point at 2159 to 1 365 760 xp, and now it's a trivial 798 149 xp.


Doesn't ZOS understand that higher CP players do not want their progression trivialized? It's all well and good to make sure the vertical progression is easy to cap out, but after vertical progression is over there's NO NEED to make rest of the CPs A JOKE to get. That just a big FU to everyone puts in a lot of hours on the game and serves no purpose beyond that.

There'll be CP3600s everywhere with the new scaling and no one with 3600 can feel like they accomplished something most players didn't.


So here's two ways on how you can fix this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam :

1. Easy leveling until vertical progression is capped out, then scale it up exponentially so that the amount of XP required from end of vertical progression to 3600 is the same as it is now on Live.
2. Further reduce the cost of passives, increase the cost of slottables - 12 slottables & all passives reached at 1200 CPs/whatever -> keep XP curve the same as it is on Live.

It's very easy to fix this without pissing off the players who have put in the biggest time investments into this game.

Most people sit around 1200 cp on average for high end or even 1500. Cp 2000 is an outlier

Guess what, I like being an outlier.

I think most people at high CP enjoy being outliers - why go through the effort otherwise?


If there is no impact on player power, there is also no reason for the higher end CPs to be easier to gain than they are on Live.

Runefang

Decimus wrote: »

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

So not only was this thread completely ignored, they made the problem EVEN WORSE by doing the complete opposite:

Adjusted the Champion Point XP curve to speed up the rate you gain CP levels up to 1800 instead of 1020. This was done to help alleviate some of the concerns with the time required to chase the current vertical progression cap.
Note this doesn’t mean we will not make further adjustments to the vertical progression in a future update; we will be closely monitoring this through Update 29’s launch.

So we went down from 1 705 483 xp per Champion Point at 2159 to 1 365 760 xp, and now it's a trivial 798 149 xp.


Doesn't ZOS understand that higher CP players do not want their progression trivialized? It's all well and good to make sure the vertical progression is easy to cap out, but after vertical progression is over there's NO NEED to make rest of the CPs A JOKE to get. That just a big FU to everyone puts in a lot of hours on the game and serves no purpose beyond that.

There'll be CP3600s everywhere with the new scaling and no one with 3600 can feel like they accomplished something most players didn't.


So here's two ways on how you can fix this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam :

1. Easy leveling until vertical progression is capped out, then scale it up exponentially so that the amount of XP required from end of vertical progression to 3600 is the same as it is now on Live.
2. Further reduce the cost of passives, increase the cost of slottables - 12 slottables & all passives reached at 1200 CPs/whatever -> keep XP curve the same as it is on Live.

It's very easy to fix this without pissing off the players who have put in the biggest time investments into this game.

Most people sit around 1200 cp on average for high end or even 1500. Cp 2000 is an outlier

Guess what, I like being an outlier.

I think most people at high CP enjoy being outliers - why go through the effort otherwise?


If there is no impact on player power, there is also no reason for the higher end CPs to be easier to gain than they are on Live.

There is an impact on player power now. And if you want to be an outlier go grind 15 master anglers like some other people.