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[IN PROGRESS] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
XP Curve Adjusted - But Why?
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Decimus✭✭✭✭✭KittyHazWares wrote: »Imagine being a transfer, you’ve played this game for 5 years on Xbox, put the time in.... do you expect someone to buy an account on PC and break the rules just to play at high CP like you’re used to... gross.
Just don’t get mad at newer people being able to catch up. Going from nothing to max is so daunting. When you’re an experienced player... you just wanna play at your normal skill level again. I’ve leveled 2 accounts over 4 years, playing every single day. One around 1,600 CP and the other is just 970. That took years. No I don’t want to sit there and grind my entire gameplay away in Spell Scar. I actually WANT to have fun and PvP.
Also some say “well making it easier will make people run out of things to do”
Lol! We’ve had a cap of 810 for the longest time..
Think about the people who have to work all day, transfers, and experienced players who’ve taken breaks from eso... making it easier to get 1800 is good.
Yes, I agree - it being easier to get to the vertical cap is a very good thing (the cap should actually be lower at 1200 or so). I'm all for that.
Under the current numbers you could get to 1800 in 3 months if you got 4,8m XP a day (i.e. actually grinding XP every day). That's still more than twice what it took to get 810 and should be further adjusted.
Getting to CP3600 two times easier isn't though, that's supposed to be something difficult & prestigious to achieve, not a trivial task.
That's why I wrote on the original post that the XP Curve *after* the vertical power cap should be adjusted to maintain the challenge of reaching 3600, but allowing people to catch up to the vertical power cap still with ease.Edited by Decimus on February 16, 2021 1:59PM0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pepegrillos wrote: »What I understand from all this is:
Decimus doesn't care if the CP effective cap is relatively easy to obtain (1800 or so).
Decimus believes a high CP count works as a sort of prestige mark.
The CP points that seem to work effectively towards that prestige mark are those above the effective cap (810 now, apparently 1800 next patch).
He is upset that as a result of the CP rework, getting CP points above the effective cap (or prestige CP) is now much easier than it was before.
As a result, it will be easier for players to catch up to CP levels above the effective cap. Since there will be more players on prestige CP levels, whatever prestige CP standing people had before is now eroded, because more people will join their ranks.
---
I can see why people find the idea that a CP grind can somehow bestow prestige on people to be completely absurd. It is rare in western MMOs, and I consider it to be absolutely garbage game design. There are other ways to progress characters in meaningul ways. However, that kind of progression system is crazy popular in asian MMOs, and I wouldn't blame people for liking that kind of stuff, even if I don't.
The only counter argument I've read here against what Decimus proposes is that those CP points above the hard cap, which are now useless, will probably turn into effective CP points in future game updates.
Exactly, thank you.
And I would much prefer to have other forms of "prestige" in game trust me, like ranked arena leaderboards or performance based PvP MMR in BGs but none of those exist so the only thing that's left is the big number next to your character name.
It's the only visible thing left separating a noob from someone who has put in a lot of time and effort into the game.
That's the sad state we're in.
There are still skins, titles, and achievements... I am a lot more impressed when I see someone with a hard to get title than I am with the CP number. The CP just means they were grinding a lot.Playing since beta...5 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭Pepegrillos wrote: »What I understand from all this is:
Decimus doesn't care if the CP effective cap is relatively easy to obtain (1800 or so).
Decimus believes a high CP count works as a sort of prestige mark.
The CP points that seem to work effectively towards that prestige mark are those above the effective cap (810 now, apparently 1800 next patch).
He is upset that as a result of the CP rework, getting CP points above the effective cap (or prestige CP) is now much easier than it was before.
As a result, it will be easier for players to catch up to CP levels above the effective cap. Since there will be more players on prestige CP levels, whatever prestige CP standing people had before is now eroded, because more people will join their ranks.
---
I can see why people find the idea that a CP grind can somehow bestow prestige on people to be completely absurd. It is rare in western MMOs, and I consider it to be absolutely garbage game design. There are other ways to progress characters in meaningul ways. However, that kind of progression system is crazy popular in asian MMOs, and I wouldn't blame people for liking that kind of stuff, even if I don't.
The only counter argument I've read here against what Decimus proposes is that those CP points above the hard cap, which are now useless, will probably turn into effective CP points in future game updates.
Exactly, thank you.
And I would much prefer to have other forms of "prestige" in game trust me, like ranked arena leaderboards or performance based PvP MMR in BGs but none of those exist so the only thing that's left is the big number next to your character name.
It's the only visible thing left separating a noob from someone who has put in a lot of time and effort into the game.
That's the sad state we're in.
There are still skins, titles, and achievements... I am a lot more impressed when I see someone with a hard to get title than I am with the CP number. The CP just means they were grinding a lot.
Well, that's you - I've seen enough Godslayers & Tick-Tock Tormentors to lose interest when one with the title runs by.
A "hard to get" title these days really is just a matter of how much gold you spend and what you spend it on.0 -
KittyHazWares✭✭✭3 months getting 4.8m a day... to reach 1800
I just want to play the game, not grind my life away and get burned out.. omg.
People who work and have a life can’t do that..Xbox One NA6 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Pepegrillos wrote: »What I understand from all this is:
Decimus doesn't care if the CP effective cap is relatively easy to obtain (1800 or so).
Decimus believes a high CP count works as a sort of prestige mark.
The CP points that seem to work effectively towards that prestige mark are those above the effective cap (810 now, apparently 1800 next patch).
He is upset that as a result of the CP rework, getting CP points above the effective cap (or prestige CP) is now much easier than it was before.
As a result, it will be easier for players to catch up to CP levels above the effective cap. Since there will be more players on prestige CP levels, whatever prestige CP standing people had before is now eroded, because more people will join their ranks.
---
I can see why people find the idea that a CP grind can somehow bestow prestige on people to be completely absurd. It is rare in western MMOs, and I consider it to be absolutely garbage game design. There are other ways to progress characters in meaningul ways. However, that kind of progression system is crazy popular in asian MMOs, and I wouldn't blame people for liking that kind of stuff, even if I don't.
The only counter argument I've read here against what Decimus proposes is that those CP points above the hard cap, which are now useless, will probably turn into effective CP points in future game updates.
Exactly, thank you.
And I would much prefer to have other forms of "prestige" in game trust me, like ranked arena leaderboards or performance based PvP MMR in BGs but none of those exist so the only thing that's left is the big number next to your character name.
It's the only visible thing left separating a noob from someone who has put in a lot of time and effort into the game.
That's the sad state we're in.
There are still skins, titles, and achievements... I am a lot more impressed when I see someone with a hard to get title than I am with the CP number. The CP just means they were grinding a lot.
Well, that's you - I've seen enough Godslayers & Tick-Tock Tormentors to lose interest when one with the title runs by.
A "hard to get" title these days really is just a matter of how much gold you spend and what you spend it on.
Getting to 3600 CP is still easier than getting those titles. It just means you spent time killing a bunch of things over and over and over and over...
The only reason there aren't a bunch of people running around with 3600 CP now is that there is no value to it. If there was never a cap there would be a lot more people running around with 3600 CP, because all it takes is time not skill.Playing since beta...3 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So not only was this thread completely ignored, they made the problem EVEN WORSE by doing the complete opposite:Adjusted the Champion Point XP curve to speed up the rate you gain CP levels up to 1800 instead of 1020. This was done to help alleviate some of the concerns with the time required to chase the current vertical progression cap.
Note this doesn’t mean we will not make further adjustments to the vertical progression in a future update; we will be closely monitoring this through Update 29’s launch.
So we went down from 1 705 483 xp per Champion Point at 2159 to 1 365 760 xp, and now it's a trivial 798 149 xp.
Doesn't ZOS understand that higher CP players do not want their progression trivialized? It's all well and good to make sure the vertical progression is easy to cap out, but after vertical progression is over there's NO NEED to make rest of the CPs A JOKE to get. That just a big FU to everyone puts in a lot of hours on the game and serves no purpose beyond that.
There'll be CP3600s everywhere with the new scaling and no one with 3600 can feel like they accomplished something most players didn't.
So here's two ways on how you can fix this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam :- Easy leveling until vertical progression is capped out, then scale it up exponentially so that the amount of XP required from end of vertical progression to 3600 is the same as it is now on Live.
- Further reduce the cost of passives, increase the cost of slottables - 12 slottables & all passives reached at 1200 CPs/whatever -> keep XP curve the same as it is on Live.
It's very easy to fix this without pissing off the players who have put in the biggest time investments into this game.
Idk why but your ignored cries about this just make me happy. Idk man, I'm just sick of players who think about new players like that. Even worse when they clearly know it's just a worthless number.
I have 2 accounts maxed (one nearing 2k CP) and I'm extremely Happy, especially for the low levels. CP should be the last thing in this game anyone should care about, especially now that it will be required.
6 -
ApoAlaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don't get it.
Maybe if I did CP PvP I would be more inclined to be vexed by this, not sure, alas I do not do such thing.
I did actually reflect on this matter and I just can't find a reason to be irritated by it.
In fact if players can get a higher CP yield by just playing rather than having to do targeted XP grinding well, happy days.
Personally to me CP is means to an end, is not a badge of honor.2 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭Pepegrillos wrote: »What I understand from all this is:
Decimus doesn't care if the CP effective cap is relatively easy to obtain (1800 or so).
Decimus believes a high CP count works as a sort of prestige mark.
The CP points that seem to work effectively towards that prestige mark are those above the effective cap (810 now, apparently 1800 next patch).
He is upset that as a result of the CP rework, getting CP points above the effective cap (or prestige CP) is now much easier than it was before.
As a result, it will be easier for players to catch up to CP levels above the effective cap. Since there will be more players on prestige CP levels, whatever prestige CP standing people had before is now eroded, because more people will join their ranks.
---
I can see why people find the idea that a CP grind can somehow bestow prestige on people to be completely absurd. It is rare in western MMOs, and I consider it to be absolutely garbage game design. There are other ways to progress characters in meaningul ways. However, that kind of progression system is crazy popular in asian MMOs, and I wouldn't blame people for liking that kind of stuff, even if I don't.
The only counter argument I've read here against what Decimus proposes is that those CP points above the hard cap, which are now useless, will probably turn into effective CP points in future game updates.
Exactly, thank you.
And I would much prefer to have other forms of "prestige" in game trust me, like ranked arena leaderboards or performance based PvP MMR in BGs but none of those exist so the only thing that's left is the big number next to your character name.
It's the only visible thing left separating a noob from someone who has put in a lot of time and effort into the game.
That's the sad state we're in.
There are still skins, titles, and achievements... I am a lot more impressed when I see someone with a hard to get title than I am with the CP number. The CP just means they were grinding a lot.
Well, that's you - I've seen enough Godslayers & Tick-Tock Tormentors to lose interest when one with the title runs by.
A "hard to get" title these days really is just a matter of how much gold you spend and what you spend it on.
Getting to 3600 CP is still easier than getting those titles. It just means you spent time killing a bunch of things over and over and over and over...
The only reason there aren't a bunch of people running around with 3600 CP now is that there is no value to it. If there was never a cap there would be a lot more people running around with 3600 CP, because all it takes is time not skill.
You do realize that it is faster to grind 250m gold (for a carry run) by just doing writs on 18 characters daily than it is to grind 3600CPs?
I wouldn't say doing writs is any harder than killing mobs (or doing Master Writs, much faster way of gaining XP).
The reason there isn't more 3600 CPs is because it is a colossal amount of effort, even if you don't have to do anything difficult. Skill is not a factor here, nor should it be - if you want skill based "flexes" ESO is not the right game, lacking proper MMR, 2v2 arenas etc etc.
The entire point of high CP is to say "hey, I'm probably more experienced in this game than you/have spent more time in it" not to say "I'm better than you".So not only was this thread completely ignored, they made the problem EVEN WORSE by doing the complete opposite:Adjusted the Champion Point XP curve to speed up the rate you gain CP levels up to 1800 instead of 1020. This was done to help alleviate some of the concerns with the time required to chase the current vertical progression cap.
Note this doesn’t mean we will not make further adjustments to the vertical progression in a future update; we will be closely monitoring this through Update 29’s launch.
So we went down from 1 705 483 xp per Champion Point at 2159 to 1 365 760 xp, and now it's a trivial 798 149 xp.
Doesn't ZOS understand that higher CP players do not want their progression trivialized? It's all well and good to make sure the vertical progression is easy to cap out, but after vertical progression is over there's NO NEED to make rest of the CPs A JOKE to get. That just a big FU to everyone puts in a lot of hours on the game and serves no purpose beyond that.
There'll be CP3600s everywhere with the new scaling and no one with 3600 can feel like they accomplished something most players didn't.
So here's two ways on how you can fix this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam :- Easy leveling until vertical progression is capped out, then scale it up exponentially so that the amount of XP required from end of vertical progression to 3600 is the same as it is now on Live.
- Further reduce the cost of passives, increase the cost of slottables - 12 slottables & all passives reached at 1200 CPs/whatever -> keep XP curve the same as it is on Live.
It's very easy to fix this without pissing off the players who have put in the biggest time investments into this game.
Idk why but your ignored cries about this just make me happy. Idk man, I'm just sick of players who think about new players like that. Even worse when they clearly know it's just a worthless number.
I have 2 accounts maxed (one nearing 2k CP) and I'm extremely Happy, especially for the low levels. CP should be the last thing in this game anyone should care about, especially now that it will be required.
Think about new players like what? Literally nothing about my post concerns new players, because a new player wouldn't be at 2k+ CP right now and definitely wouldn't/shouldn't be thinking beyond vertical progression.
Maybe you should read over the original post again, for the 67th time I'm all for new players being able to reach the vertical progression fast (in fact they should reach it even faster, at around 1200 CPs).
Do everyone a favor and read before commenting.0 -
Nyladreas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Pepegrillos wrote: »What I understand from all this is:
Decimus doesn't care if the CP effective cap is relatively easy to obtain (1800 or so).
Decimus believes a high CP count works as a sort of prestige mark.
The CP points that seem to work effectively towards that prestige mark are those above the effective cap (810 now, apparently 1800 next patch).
He is upset that as a result of the CP rework, getting CP points above the effective cap (or prestige CP) is now much easier than it was before.
As a result, it will be easier for players to catch up to CP levels above the effective cap. Since there will be more players on prestige CP levels, whatever prestige CP standing people had before is now eroded, because more people will join their ranks.
---
I can see why people find the idea that a CP grind can somehow bestow prestige on people to be completely absurd. It is rare in western MMOs, and I consider it to be absolutely garbage game design. There are other ways to progress characters in meaningul ways. However, that kind of progression system is crazy popular in asian MMOs, and I wouldn't blame people for liking that kind of stuff, even if I don't.
The only counter argument I've read here against what Decimus proposes is that those CP points above the hard cap, which are now useless, will probably turn into effective CP points in future game updates.
Exactly, thank you.
And I would much prefer to have other forms of "prestige" in game trust me, like ranked arena leaderboards or performance based PvP MMR in BGs but none of those exist so the only thing that's left is the big number next to your character name.
It's the only visible thing left separating a noob from someone who has put in a lot of time and effort into the game.
That's the sad state we're in.
There are still skins, titles, and achievements... I am a lot more impressed when I see someone with a hard to get title than I am with the CP number. The CP just means they were grinding a lot.
Well, that's you - I've seen enough Godslayers & Tick-Tock Tormentors to lose interest when one with the title runs by.
A "hard to get" title these days really is just a matter of how much gold you spend and what you spend it on.
Getting to 3600 CP is still easier than getting those titles. It just means you spent time killing a bunch of things over and over and over and over...
The only reason there aren't a bunch of people running around with 3600 CP now is that there is no value to it. If there was never a cap there would be a lot more people running around with 3600 CP, because all it takes is time not skill.
You do realize that it is faster to grind 250m gold (for a carry run) by just doing writs on 18 characters daily than it is to grind 3600CPs?
I wouldn't say doing writs is any harder than killing mobs (or doing Master Writs, much faster way of gaining XP).
The reason there isn't more 3600 CPs is because it is a colossal amount of effort, even if you don't have to do anything difficult. Skill is not a factor here, nor should it be - if you want skill based "flexes" ESO is not the right game, lacking proper MMR, 2v2 arenas etc etc.
The entire point of high CP is to say "hey, I'm probably more experienced in this game than you/have spent more time in it" not to say "I'm better than you".So not only was this thread completely ignored, they made the problem EVEN WORSE by doing the complete opposite:Adjusted the Champion Point XP curve to speed up the rate you gain CP levels up to 1800 instead of 1020. This was done to help alleviate some of the concerns with the time required to chase the current vertical progression cap.
Note this doesn’t mean we will not make further adjustments to the vertical progression in a future update; we will be closely monitoring this through Update 29’s launch.
So we went down from 1 705 483 xp per Champion Point at 2159 to 1 365 760 xp, and now it's a trivial 798 149 xp.
Doesn't ZOS understand that higher CP players do not want their progression trivialized? It's all well and good to make sure the vertical progression is easy to cap out, but after vertical progression is over there's NO NEED to make rest of the CPs A JOKE to get. That just a big FU to everyone puts in a lot of hours on the game and serves no purpose beyond that.
There'll be CP3600s everywhere with the new scaling and no one with 3600 can feel like they accomplished something most players didn't.
So here's two ways on how you can fix this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam :- Easy leveling until vertical progression is capped out, then scale it up exponentially so that the amount of XP required from end of vertical progression to 3600 is the same as it is now on Live.
- Further reduce the cost of passives, increase the cost of slottables - 12 slottables & all passives reached at 1200 CPs/whatever -> keep XP curve the same as it is on Live.
It's very easy to fix this without pissing off the players who have put in the biggest time investments into this game.
Idk why but your ignored cries about this just make me happy. Idk man, I'm just sick of players who think about new players like that. Even worse when they clearly know it's just a worthless number.
I have 2 accounts maxed (one nearing 2k CP) and I'm extremely Happy, especially for the low levels. CP should be the last thing in this game anyone should care about, especially now that it will be required.
Think about new players like what? Literally nothing about my post concerns new players, because a new player wouldn't be at 2k+ CP right now and definitely wouldn't/shouldn't be thinking beyond vertical progression.
Maybe you should read over the original post again, for the 67th time I'm all for new players being able to reach the vertical progression fast (in fact they should reach it even faster, at around 1200 CPs).
Do everyone a favor and read before commenting.
But it does. Everyone recieves some kind of benefits from having the CP cap. And I'm willing to bet endgame groups of players will put pressure on newer players for having low CP as well regardless of real functionality.
And idk... It's the tone too. Maybe... Just maybe...0 -
Elvenheart✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭CP numbers by player names should be hidden from other players. Problem solved.5 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭Pepegrillos wrote: »What I understand from all this is:
Decimus doesn't care if the CP effective cap is relatively easy to obtain (1800 or so).
Decimus believes a high CP count works as a sort of prestige mark.
The CP points that seem to work effectively towards that prestige mark are those above the effective cap (810 now, apparently 1800 next patch).
He is upset that as a result of the CP rework, getting CP points above the effective cap (or prestige CP) is now much easier than it was before.
As a result, it will be easier for players to catch up to CP levels above the effective cap. Since there will be more players on prestige CP levels, whatever prestige CP standing people had before is now eroded, because more people will join their ranks.
---
I can see why people find the idea that a CP grind can somehow bestow prestige on people to be completely absurd. It is rare in western MMOs, and I consider it to be absolutely garbage game design. There are other ways to progress characters in meaningul ways. However, that kind of progression system is crazy popular in asian MMOs, and I wouldn't blame people for liking that kind of stuff, even if I don't.
The only counter argument I've read here against what Decimus proposes is that those CP points above the hard cap, which are now useless, will probably turn into effective CP points in future game updates.
Exactly, thank you.
And I would much prefer to have other forms of "prestige" in game trust me, like ranked arena leaderboards or performance based PvP MMR in BGs but none of those exist so the only thing that's left is the big number next to your character name.
It's the only visible thing left separating a noob from someone who has put in a lot of time and effort into the game.
That's the sad state we're in.
There are still skins, titles, and achievements... I am a lot more impressed when I see someone with a hard to get title than I am with the CP number. The CP just means they were grinding a lot.
Well, that's you - I've seen enough Godslayers & Tick-Tock Tormentors to lose interest when one with the title runs by.
A "hard to get" title these days really is just a matter of how much gold you spend and what you spend it on.
Getting to 3600 CP is still easier than getting those titles. It just means you spent time killing a bunch of things over and over and over and over...
The only reason there aren't a bunch of people running around with 3600 CP now is that there is no value to it. If there was never a cap there would be a lot more people running around with 3600 CP, because all it takes is time not skill.
You do realize that it is faster to grind 250m gold (for a carry run) by just doing writs on 18 characters daily than it is to grind 3600CPs?
I wouldn't say doing writs is any harder than killing mobs (or doing Master Writs, much faster way of gaining XP).
The reason there isn't more 3600 CPs is because it is a colossal amount of effort, even if you don't have to do anything difficult. Skill is not a factor here, nor should it be - if you want skill based "flexes" ESO is not the right game, lacking proper MMR, 2v2 arenas etc etc.
The entire point of high CP is to say "hey, I'm probably more experienced in this game than you/have spent more time in it" not to say "I'm better than you".So not only was this thread completely ignored, they made the problem EVEN WORSE by doing the complete opposite:Adjusted the Champion Point XP curve to speed up the rate you gain CP levels up to 1800 instead of 1020. This was done to help alleviate some of the concerns with the time required to chase the current vertical progression cap.
Note this doesn’t mean we will not make further adjustments to the vertical progression in a future update; we will be closely monitoring this through Update 29’s launch.
So we went down from 1 705 483 xp per Champion Point at 2159 to 1 365 760 xp, and now it's a trivial 798 149 xp.
Doesn't ZOS understand that higher CP players do not want their progression trivialized? It's all well and good to make sure the vertical progression is easy to cap out, but after vertical progression is over there's NO NEED to make rest of the CPs A JOKE to get. That just a big FU to everyone puts in a lot of hours on the game and serves no purpose beyond that.
There'll be CP3600s everywhere with the new scaling and no one with 3600 can feel like they accomplished something most players didn't.
So here's two ways on how you can fix this @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_Gilliam :- Easy leveling until vertical progression is capped out, then scale it up exponentially so that the amount of XP required from end of vertical progression to 3600 is the same as it is now on Live.
- Further reduce the cost of passives, increase the cost of slottables - 12 slottables & all passives reached at 1200 CPs/whatever -> keep XP curve the same as it is on Live.
It's very easy to fix this without pissing off the players who have put in the biggest time investments into this game.
Idk why but your ignored cries about this just make me happy. Idk man, I'm just sick of players who think about new players like that. Even worse when they clearly know it's just a worthless number.
I have 2 accounts maxed (one nearing 2k CP) and I'm extremely Happy, especially for the low levels. CP should be the last thing in this game anyone should care about, especially now that it will be required.
Think about new players like what? Literally nothing about my post concerns new players, because a new player wouldn't be at 2k+ CP right now and definitely wouldn't/shouldn't be thinking beyond vertical progression.
Maybe you should read over the original post again, for the 67th time I'm all for new players being able to reach the vertical progression fast (in fact they should reach it even faster, at around 1200 CPs).
Do everyone a favor and read before commenting.
But it does. Everyone recieves some kind of benefits from having the CP cap. And I'm willing to bet endgame groups of players will put pressure on newer players for having low CP as well regardless of real functionality.
And idk... It's the tone too. Maybe... Just maybe...
No, it doesn't - unless your definition of "benefits" is not having to respec to change passives.
If an "endgame group" (funny that a "new player" should concern themselves with that) wants you to have more than the vertical cap in CPs they're probably being led by someone who doesn't understand how the system works, and I wouldn't trust someone who doesn't understand the CP system to understand game mechanics... you'll probably do yourself a favor by not joining that "endgame group".
Also I don't appreciate any insinuations about my tone towards new players. I answer questions from new players like a full time phone operator and help them learn the ins & outs of this game, what have you ever done?
I'm noticing a tone towards anyone who doesn't play this game just casually.Edited by Decimus on February 16, 2021 3:31PM0 -
Scardan✭✭✭✭✭What I'm not happy with is that CPs will mean absolutely nothing when CP1800->3600 (so beyond the vertical power cap) takes less than half the time it does on Live and basically anyone can reach it, at which point there is no way to progress your character anymore and thus no reasons to really log in either, veterans of this game will be indistinguishable from newer players and there's nothing that makes people go "wow" when they see your character anymore, and the number next to your userID.
If it's all because it seems to you that your character will lose the wow effect, then you are slightly exaggerating the value of your lvl numbers for new players, because most people don't care .People are preoccupied with their own numbers and those of their friends. What can surprise and delight them is the outfits of other players, I sometimes see very beautifully selected motifs. But not the numbers next to your nicknames.
Edited by Scardan on February 16, 2021 4:53PMLet's be extremely precise in our use of terms.1 -
Xebov✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well if they want max CP for basically free just to avoid respec costs while missing the entire point of the system... F them.
Noone wants anything for free. Ppl just want it to take reasonable amounts of time. There is a difference. The horizontal progression itself is one of the key selling points of the CP system. This however only works if CP can be obtained well enought to use it. Your problem is that you are looking at a complex problem that you dont understand because you project your view onto it while ignoring all other views in the process.
1 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭What I'm not happy with is that CPs will mean absolutely nothing when CP1800->3600 (so beyond the vertical power cap) takes less than half the time it does on Live and basically anyone can reach it, at which point there is no way to progress your character anymore and thus no reasons to really log in either, veterans of this game will be indistinguishable from newer players and there's nothing that makes people go "wow" when they see your character anymore, and the number next to your userID.
I don’t understand, why does it matter to you, how who differs from whom.
If it's all because it seems to you that your character will lose the wow effect, then you are slightly exaggerating the value of your lvl numbers for new players, because most people don't care .People are preoccupied with their own numbers and those of their friends. What can surprise and delight them is the outfits of other players, I sometimes see very beautifully selected motifs. But not the numbers next to your nicknames.
Because as a competitive player I play games to set myself apart from others, whether it's via the number next to my character name, the amount of kills in a BG (since there's no actual performance based leaderboard to compete on) or the amount of items collected (https://www.eso-armory.com/armory).
See how I have to link to an external 3rd party website just for anyone to even be aware how my item set collection looks like?
CP number is the only thing of value you can showcase in game, that's the sad truth. And it won't be worth anything soon.1 -
phantasmalD✭✭✭✭✭Also I don't appreciate any insinuations about my tone towards new players. I answer questions from new players like a full time phone operator and help them learn the ins & outs of this game, what have you ever done?
I'm noticing a tone towards anyone who doesn't play this game just casually.veterans of this game will be indistinguishable from newer players and there's nothing that makes people go "wow" when they see your character anymore, and the number next to your userID.It's the only visible thing left separating a noob from someone who has put in a lot of time and effort into the game.
This insinuates that you consider newer players as nothing more than a puppy-eyed crowd who must admire you for the effort and time you put into your character.
Wanting to preserve a pointless grind just so you have something to flaunt and fuel your sense of superiority.
Belittling other achivements this game has to offer, treating them as subpar and meaningless, just because it's not what you are grinding for.
'Noob' has negative connotations, denoting a mindset where 'newer player == inferior'.
It's not an outright hostile tone, but pretty insidous nonetheless.
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Decimus✭✭✭✭✭phantasmalD wrote: »Also I don't appreciate any insinuations about my tone towards new players. I answer questions from new players like a full time phone operator and help them learn the ins & outs of this game, what have you ever done?
I'm noticing a tone towards anyone who doesn't play this game just casually.veterans of this game will be indistinguishable from newer players and there's nothing that makes people go "wow" when they see your character anymore, and the number next to your userID.It's the only visible thing left separating a noob from someone who has put in a lot of time and effort into the game.
This insinuates that you consider newer players as nothing more than a puppy-eyed crowd who must admire you for the effort and time you put into your character.
Wanting to preserve a pointless grind just so you have something to flaunt and fuel your sense of superiority.
Belittling other achivements this game has to offer, treating them as subpar and meaningless, just because it's not what you are grinding for.
'Noob' has negative connotations, denoting a mindset where 'newer player == inferior'.
It's not an outright hostile tone, but pretty insidous nonetheless.
must is not a word I've used at any point (can would be appropriate) and if refer to someone as a noob it's aimed towards the players who feel entitled to what others spent more effort achieving and act as if they're someone better than you whose time is more valuable.
That's the vibe I'm getting from a lot of these posts.Edited by Decimus on February 16, 2021 5:04PM0 -
CombatRecon11B✭✭✭phantasmalD wrote: »
[snip]CombatRecon11B wrote: »[Quoted post was removed]Deleted for violating community standards. Stop drunk posting, Combat.Edited by CombatRecon11B on February 16, 2021 8:52PM0 -
IonicKai✭✭✭✭I think a big thing being missed here is that you need to consider new players as well as the old guard. New players keep the game moving forward and replenish those that have left the game. If it takes years and years to get to max level we have no way to replenish end game ranks. If you look at the number of people that are end game for pve content on console at least you will see the population is incredibly small. Most of those players play everyday on multiple teams and the ranks are dewindling. If ZOS followed the OPs proposal eventually endgame will just die for a few years because there simply won't be enough people.
Also just in general CP is a flex of "I grinded stupid amount of XP because I can sink time into this game on high XP gain activities". It says absolutely nothing about game knowledge or player capability. At one point I stated it was more accurate to call CP "collective playtime" then to call it champion points. Most endgame PVE players I know float between 1100-1400 on console and most of them play everyday for several hours a day (myself included). We are doing content and pushing things that are considered activities for hardcore players but our rewarded are titles and achievements not XP.
This group represents some of the most loyal and most vocal on these forums and are largely the people that were upset when we were told we had to go grind for like a year doing a mindless hamster wheel just to get back to the content we were pushing pre patch drop. ZOS thankfully is at least somewhat listening to this group as the flattened the curve quite a bit to make it not so absurd.0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭I think a big thing being missed here is that you need to consider new players as well as the old guard. New players keep the game moving forward and replenish those that have left the game. If it takes years and years to get to max level we have no way to replenish end game ranks. If you look at the number of people that are end game for pve content on console at least you will see the population is incredibly small. Most of those players play everyday on multiple teams and the ranks are dewindling. If ZOS followed the OPs proposal eventually endgame will just die for a few years because there simply won't be enough people.
Also just in general CP is a flex of "I grinded stupid amount of XP because I can sink time into this game on high XP gain activities". It says absolutely nothing about game knowledge or player capability. At one point I stated it was more accurate to call CP "collective playtime" then to call it champion points. Most endgame PVE players I know float between 1100-1400 on console and most of them play everyday for several hours a day (myself included). We are doing content and pushing things that are considered activities for hardcore players but our rewarded are titles and achievements not XP.
This group represents some of the most loyal and most vocal on these forums and are largely the people that were upset when we were told we had to go grind for like a year doing a mindless hamster wheel just to get back to the content we were pushing pre patch drop. ZOS thankfully is at least somewhat listening to this group as the flattened the curve quite a bit to make it not so absurd.
For the 68th time, you don't need 3600 CPs as a new player to reach the "endgame", you need around 1800 to max out the vertical progression (and this should be lower still). The game will die if people reach not just 1800, but also 3600 with ease and have no progression left afterwards, or if the points beyond vertical progression don't distinguish you from anyone else as it is so trivially easy to gain them, at which point they don't matter at all.Edited by Decimus on February 16, 2021 5:54PM0 -
Duplomancer✭✭✭Nearly 2 years of 810 as cap (if I understand this correctly) proves that the game will not die when people hit cap though.2 -
MrGhosty✭✭✭✭✭You say Godslayer has no value because someone can buy a carry, but you can also buy a carry via activities in the game for the XP gains which net you your treasured CP number. I would imagine your next response will be "but I don't buy carries" and neither did some of the people who wear that title proudly. Even Zos hands out xp scrolls like Halloween candy, so they're literally giving you potential levels. Again, I imagine you will say that you don't use XP scrolls either but I as a passerby will have no way of knowing that so the only person who will understand what level of commitment you have to the game will be yourself. If that's the case, you knowing that you had more CP before zos made it "too easy" should be plenty of self satisfaction no?
"It is a time of strife and unrest. Armies of revenants and dark spirits manifest in every corner of Tamriel. Winters grow colder and crops fail. Mystics are plagued by nightmares and portents of doom."0 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I think a big thing being missed here is that you need to consider new players as well as the old guard. New players keep the game moving forward and replenish those that have left the game. If it takes years and years to get to max level we have no way to replenish end game ranks. If you look at the number of people that are end game for pve content on console at least you will see the population is incredibly small. Most of those players play everyday on multiple teams and the ranks are dewindling. If ZOS followed the OPs proposal eventually endgame will just die for a few years because there simply won't be enough people.
Also just in general CP is a flex of "I grinded stupid amount of XP because I can sink time into this game on high XP gain activities". It says absolutely nothing about game knowledge or player capability. At one point I stated it was more accurate to call CP "collective playtime" then to call it champion points. Most endgame PVE players I know float between 1100-1400 on console and most of them play everyday for several hours a day (myself included). We are doing content and pushing things that are considered activities for hardcore players but our rewarded are titles and achievements not XP.
This group represents some of the most loyal and most vocal on these forums and are largely the people that were upset when we were told we had to go grind for like a year doing a mindless hamster wheel just to get back to the content we were pushing pre patch drop. ZOS thankfully is at least somewhat listening to this group as the flattened the curve quite a bit to make it not so absurd.
For the 68th time, you don't need 3600 CPs as a new player to reach the "endgame", you need around 1800 to max out the vertical progression (and this should be lower still). The game will die if people reach not just 1800, but also 3600 with ease and have no progression left afterwards, or if the points beyond vertical progression don't distinguish you from anyone else as it is so trivially easy to gain them, at which point they don't matter at all.
Whether it takes 800k or 1.5M XP, CP is still mindlessly easy to get and is no mark of achievement for anything other than the fact that you ground XP.
We have sat with effectively 810 CP for a long time now and the game hasn't died. It won't die if everyone gets to 3600 either.
Playing since beta...2 -
IonicKai✭✭✭✭I think a big thing being missed here is that you need to consider new players as well as the old guard. New players keep the game moving forward and replenish those that have left the game. If it takes years and years to get to max level we have no way to replenish end game ranks. If you look at the number of people that are end game for pve content on console at least you will see the population is incredibly small. Most of those players play everyday on multiple teams and the ranks are dewindling. If ZOS followed the OPs proposal eventually endgame will just die for a few years because there simply won't be enough people.
Also just in general CP is a flex of "I grinded stupid amount of XP because I can sink time into this game on high XP gain activities". It says absolutely nothing about game knowledge or player capability. At one point I stated it was more accurate to call CP "collective playtime" then to call it champion points. Most endgame PVE players I know float between 1100-1400 on console and most of them play everyday for several hours a day (myself included). We are doing content and pushing things that are considered activities for hardcore players but our rewarded are titles and achievements not XP.
This group represents some of the most loyal and most vocal on these forums and are largely the people that were upset when we were told we had to go grind for like a year doing a mindless hamster wheel just to get back to the content we were pushing pre patch drop. ZOS thankfully is at least somewhat listening to this group as the flattened the curve quite a bit to make it not so absurd.
For the 68th time, you don't need 3600 CPs as a new player to reach the "endgame", you need around 1800 to max out the vertical progression (and this should be lower still). The game will die if people reach not just 1800, but also 3600 with ease and have no progression left afterwards, or if the points beyond vertical progression don't distinguish you from anyone else as it is so trivially easy to gain them, at which point they don't matter at all.
I didn't say people needed 3600 to reach endgame I'm saying that gating max level of the game behind a level of hopeless grind for even those that spend countless hours actually serves as a deterrent to playing the game. There is no reason to make max level take forever other than to appease the really small population of players like yourself that seem to have some inflated sense of self importance for doing a pure XP grind. That isn't what the game is about either and there is nothing harmful about many people reaching max level within a reasonable amount of time other than bruised egos of those complaining that they grinded when it took even more time.
Edit: Honestly prospective players are going to ask what's max level and when the answer is 3600 and it will take you 2 years of just grinding like crazy that's a bigger death sentence then everyone being given max level out the gate. Just explaining to a new player that max level is 3600 but you only need about 1800 to reach optimal performance is going to be confusing and disheartening enough. Given that the goal was horizontal progression given people access with reasonable playtime shouldn't be a bad thing since there isn't power gained by that logic.Edited by IonicKai on February 16, 2021 6:53PM1 -
ZOS_ConnorGmodGreetings all,
After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.
You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.0 -
Decimus✭✭✭✭✭Duplomancer wrote: »Nearly 2 years of 810 as cap (if I understand this correctly) proves that the game will not die when people hit cap though.
It never was the cap though as people could keep gaining Champion Points beyond 810. If we weren't able to progress past 810 and more than half the player base was "equal" at 810 CPs next to their name I can say for certain I personally wouldn't have played these past 6 years.You say Godslayer has no value because someone can buy a carry, but you can also buy a carry via activities in the game for the XP gains which net you your treasured CP number. I would imagine your next response will be "but I don't buy carries" and neither did some of the people who wear that title proudly. Even Zos hands out xp scrolls like Halloween candy, so they're literally giving you potential levels. Again, I imagine you will say that you don't use XP scrolls either but I as a passerby will have no way of knowing that so the only person who will understand what level of commitment you have to the game will be yourself. If that's the case, you knowing that you had more CP before zos made it "too easy" should be plenty of self satisfaction no?
No, my response isn't "I don't buy carries", my response is that it takes 250m gold to buy a carry for that and then 30 minutes of your time.
Meanwhile getting to CP3600 would take 617 hours of turning in Master Writs and billions of in game gold, assuming there was enough master writs on the market in the first place.
I.e. a lot more gold and effort for CP3600.
And no, knowing I had 2200~ (by the time the patch releases) CPs before they make that number irrelevant & something any new player can get in 5-6 months doesn't really make me feel any better - no one who sees me in game can tell when I got my CPs, so what's the point? Some personal pat in the back? Not interested in that.I think a big thing being missed here is that you need to consider new players as well as the old guard. New players keep the game moving forward and replenish those that have left the game. If it takes years and years to get to max level we have no way to replenish end game ranks. If you look at the number of people that are end game for pve content on console at least you will see the population is incredibly small. Most of those players play everyday on multiple teams and the ranks are dewindling. If ZOS followed the OPs proposal eventually endgame will just die for a few years because there simply won't be enough people.
Also just in general CP is a flex of "I grinded stupid amount of XP because I can sink time into this game on high XP gain activities". It says absolutely nothing about game knowledge or player capability. At one point I stated it was more accurate to call CP "collective playtime" then to call it champion points. Most endgame PVE players I know float between 1100-1400 on console and most of them play everyday for several hours a day (myself included). We are doing content and pushing things that are considered activities for hardcore players but our rewarded are titles and achievements not XP.
This group represents some of the most loyal and most vocal on these forums and are largely the people that were upset when we were told we had to go grind for like a year doing a mindless hamster wheel just to get back to the content we were pushing pre patch drop. ZOS thankfully is at least somewhat listening to this group as the flattened the curve quite a bit to make it not so absurd.
For the 68th time, you don't need 3600 CPs as a new player to reach the "endgame", you need around 1800 to max out the vertical progression (and this should be lower still). The game will die if people reach not just 1800, but also 3600 with ease and have no progression left afterwards, or if the points beyond vertical progression don't distinguish you from anyone else as it is so trivially easy to gain them, at which point they don't matter at all.
I didn't say people needed 3600 to reach endgame I'm saying that gating max level of the game behind a level of hopeless grind for even those that spend countless hours actually serves as a deterrent to playing the game. There is no reason to make max level take forever other than to appease the really small population of players like yourself that seem to have some inflated sense of self importance for doing a pure XP grind. That isn't what the game is about either and there is nothing harmful about many people reaching max level within a reasonable amount of time other than bruised egos of those complaining that they grinded when it took even more time.
Edit: Honestly prospective players are going to ask what's max level and when the answer is 3600 and it will take you 2 years of just grinding like crazy that's a bigger death sentence then everyone being given max level out the gate. Just explaining to a new player that max level is 3600 but you only need about 1800 to reach optimal performance is going to be confusing and disheartening enough. Given that the goal was horizontal progression given people access with reasonable playtime shouldn't be a bad thing since there isn't power gained by that logic.
Why would they/you need to get to max level? The entire point is/was that only a few people who went through the effort would get there, not every average Joe who picks up the game. The whole thing loses its value if that happens.
You do realize in other MMOs this is replaced by gear grind and most players never get the BiS gear gated behind difficult raids etc?
Do people complain about that? Yes.
Is it a good thing to have such grinds in a MMO that's supposed to have long term character progression? Yes.
ESO's version of "grind" doesn't even provide statistical advantages at the end, but yet people feel entitled to be at the top of the echelon without putting in the effort to get there. Sad.Edited by Decimus on February 16, 2021 7:10PM0 -
xaraan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭uh no
first of all, yes, zos is wrong, the CP curve max should be the max: 3600, and should ramp up to that, not 1800.
Those of us that are already up in that area have already been disadvantaged for years by essentially losing experience to the xp curve already. I'd rather them just make the overall care fair for everyone now.
(Let's not forget, if we kept things the same just because others had to do it harder, then you'd all be leveling CP separately on every character like those of us that had to level vet ranks before.)-- @xaraan --
nightblade: Xaraan • templar: Xaraan-dar • dragon-knight: Xaraanosaurus • necromancer: Xaraan-qa • warden: Xaraanodon • sorcerer: Xaraan-ra
AD • NA • PC3 -
hakan✭✭✭✭✭no. i dont think anyone played this long because they could gain cp after 810cp and hope to use it one day, as you claimed.
people played for this long for various reasons. but i dont think your reason would be even listed there.
one of the main beauty of this game is, its easy to catch up and its horizontal progress instead of vertical. imagine the gear you dropped in a trial/arena got out-statted by random green item. ughh..3 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you have an addon like Bandit's UI that showcases the CP level of the player you're targeting.
If I played on PC maybe I would. Or maybe I wouldn't, because I don't care that much about other people's 810+CP as some people seem to.
Why does it matter to you so much how much CP other people have that you literally have an addon to snoop it??1 -
HankTwo✭✭✭✭✭What I'm not happy with is that CPs will mean absolutely nothing when CP1800->3600 (so beyond the vertical power cap) takes less than half the time it does on Live and basically anyone can reach it, at which point there is no way to progress your character anymore and thus no reasons to really log in either, veterans of this game will be indistinguishable from newer players and there's nothing that makes people go "wow" when they see your character anymore, and the number next to your userID.
I don’t understand, why does it matter to you, how who differs from whom.
If it's all because it seems to you that your character will lose the wow effect, then you are slightly exaggerating the value of your lvl numbers for new players, because most people don't care .People are preoccupied with their own numbers and those of their friends. What can surprise and delight them is the outfits of other players, I sometimes see very beautifully selected motifs. But not the numbers next to your nicknames.
Because as a competitive player I play games to set myself apart from others, whether it's via the number next to my character name, the amount of kills in a BG (since there's no actual performance based leaderboard to compete on) or the amount of items collected (https://www.eso-armory.com/armory).
See how I have to link to an external 3rd party website just for anyone to even be aware how my item set collection looks like?
CP number is the only thing of value you can showcase in game, that's the sad truth. And it won't be worth anything soon.
You want to set yourself apart via the amount of your CP? LOL
Edited by HankTwo on February 16, 2021 11:37PMPC EU
Stam DK, Magden, Magplar, Stamcro, Hybrid Sorc, Magblade & Mag DK4 -
renne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well, that's you - I've seen enough Godslayers & Tick-Tock Tormentors to lose interest when one with the title runs by.
A "hard to get" title these days really is just a matter of how much gold you spend and what you spend it on.
This certainly explains a lot about your attitude to high CP supposedly being ~prestige~ and not just that you've played a long time/earned a lot of XP.
You know there has to be more than just 12 people who can actually do the content in order to be able to sell carries to all these thousands of players you seem to think are buying their titles, right?
But no, grinding XP in Skyreach and Spellscar? PRESTIGE.7
