Most FAIR solution of scaling from CP 1.0 to CP 2.0
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BalticBlues✭✭✭✭✭
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Indeed. ZOS, please do not create two different XP systems.It's bizarre that XP that's already earned is worth less
than XP that will be earned in the future.
Please keep things simple and understandable.
For all players, the same XP should always result in the same CP.
No matter when and how XP was earned, the CP from it should be exactly the same.
Edited by BalticBlues on February 15, 2021 3:56PM6 -
Lamagrokie✭✭✭They just changed the scaling so it's at 1800 instead of 1020.
It's a full 56% reduction in the amount of XP needed...
Then you get back-to-back double XP events with Jester's and Anniversary
They have more than heard the complaints, and have made adjustments.
that isn't decision, they just make another unfair move to vet players, why should new players achieve 810 1200 and 1800 CP 2 or 4 times faster than we did, they just kick us off. It wouldn't be a problem if it was same system, hower it's not and now all vet players will feal themselves as weak as new one.2 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭
They have more than heard the complaints, and have made adjustments.
No they have only heard half the complaints. The ones that the curve is still to steep.
The scaling one they made WAY worse.
My currently earned 515M Exp that gets me 1200CP on live would give me CP 1917 with the new system.
1200 will now only take 206M Exp.
They actually throw out way more of my earned CP with the new cap. 300M instead of 160M with the 1020 cap.
Took me 4200 hours to get those 515M Exp. So in essence ZOS just threw 2500 hours of my playtime down the drain...Edited by remosito on February 15, 2021 4:31PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)4 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭
No they have only heard half the complaints. The ones that the curve is still to steep.
The scaling one they made WAY worse.
My currently earned 515M Exp that gets me 1200CP on live would give me CP 1917 with the new system.
1200 will now only take 206M Exp.
They actually throw out way more of my earned CP with the new cap. 300M instead of 160M with the 1020 cap.
Took me 4200 hours to get those 515M Exp. So in essence ZOS just threw 2500 hours of my playtime down the drain...
How do you know you have gained 515M XP? Curious on how to see this.0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
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No they have only heard half the complaints. The ones that the curve is still to steep.
The scaling one they made WAY worse.
My currently earned 515M Exp that gets me 1200CP on live would give me CP 1917 with the new system.
1200 will now only take 206M Exp.
They actually throw out way more of my earned CP with the new cap. 300M instead of 160M with the 1020 cap.
Took me 4200 hours to get those 515M Exp. So in essence ZOS just threw 2500 hours of my playtime down the drain...
Yeah, I want back all those hours I worked at $4 an hour back in the 90's, they should back pay me for those hours at what today's minimum wage is ($10+ in my state).
Entitlement. Plain and simple. (and I venture I "lose" more than almost all of you with that logic, considering I'm at ~2k CP).
If the entire purpose of you playing was to gain CP... not have fun with friends... not play a story... not accomplish goals in game... etc... then that argument might hold water. But, I'd guess (hopefully) that that is not the truth.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger66,815 achievement points5 -
No they have only heard half the complaints. The ones that the curve is still to steep.
The scaling one they made WAY worse.
My currently earned 515M Exp that gets me 1200CP on live would give me CP 1917 with the new system.
1200 will now only take 206M Exp.
They actually throw out way more of my earned CP with the new cap. 300M instead of 160M with the 1020 cap.
Took me 4200 hours to get those 515M Exp. So in essence ZOS just threw 2500 hours of my playtime down the drain...
Agreed with you, also there is one improtant question, if vet player already done all PvE in game content where he will get new XP from???
If ZOS just stealing from you 309M XP, probably they expect that you and other vet plaeyrs need to start grining scyreach and doing annoying dailys just to bring yourself back into shape. It's ridiculous5 -
Ringod123✭✭✭If my currently XP earned is lowered to give me the same CP as I have in the current system then I literally quit, for good, or at least until they eventually realise how bad of a mistake they made and reverse it. Deleting some of our XP and making us earn it again, just to let new players possibly catch up is ridiculous, especially when the vast majority of those new players will not stick around when they see how ridiculous the max level is to get to.
This will be the death knell of the game if you steal people already earned XP, what on earth makes you think this is a good idea?3 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭
Entitlement. Plain and simple. (and I venture I "lose" more than almost all of you with that logic, considering I'm at ~2k CP).
If the entire purpose of you playing was to gain CP... not have fun with friends... not play a story... not accomplish goals in game... etc... then that argument might hold water. But, I'd guess (hopefully) that that is not the truth.
No! the thruth is I put 4200 hours into this game I wouldn't even be able to do any horizontal cp spread for my chars!!!!!!!!!!
That's ***. At least make it a 50/50 spread. Make me keep 50% of those 300M Exp and throw out the other 50%.
Or I am most likely done. Just canceled my eso+ and doubt I will renew. And certainly have no desire to play without...
So in a way even though you loose way more cp progress than me with your 2k CP, at least you can do horizontal spread and loose less actual functionality...Edited by remosito on February 15, 2021 4:54PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
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[Removed quote]
They have changed the XP curve with EACH AND EVERY OTHER UPDATE when they changed the cap by 30 CP previously
So they changed it when they went from
780 to 810
750 to 780
720 to 750
etc..Edited by ZOS_Volpe on February 16, 2021 6:01PMThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger66,815 achievement points2 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭
How do you know you have gained 515M XP? Curious on how to see this.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uS2H-elnpVngKOMBqwl3LHytDHSOBwmDfDoQHHOtoh4/edit?usp=sharingShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0 -
Ringod123✭✭✭
They have changed the XP curve with EACH AND EVERY OTHER UPDATE when they changed the cap by 30 CP previously
So they changed it when they went from
780 to 810
750 to 780
720 to 750
etc..
By tiny amounts
not deleting up to half of someones earned XP and upping the cap by more than 3 times...... 0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
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By tiny amounts not deleting up to half of someones earned XP and upping the cap by more than 3 times......
The combined effect of the changes from 351 (which I think was the original cap... I don't remember 100% for sure) and 810 where it ended was a 55% reduction in XP
This change from 810 to 1800 is a 56% reduction.
I don't just say things willy nilly... I do my research, I check the numbers.
[Snip]
[Edited for bait]Edited by ZOS_Volpe on February 16, 2021 6:02PMThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger66,815 achievement points1 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭
By tiny amounts not deleting up to half of someones earned XP and upping the cap by more than 3 times......
More than half actually. CP 1200 was 515M and now is 206M. Or 60% thrown out.ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0 -
Lamagrokie✭✭✭
They have changed the XP curve with EACH AND EVERY OTHER UPDATE when they changed the cap by 30 CP previously
So they changed it when they went from
780 to 810
750 to 780
720 to 750
etc..
Why you don't want to understand that it's completely another system, it's not the same thing that they do increasing cap at 30 points,that's why example which you show isn't related to CP 2.0;
THIS TIME THEY DON'T INCREASE CAP, NOW THEY REWORKED WHOLE SYSTEMEdited by ZOS_Volpe on February 16, 2021 6:02PM3 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭
The combined effect of the changes from 351 (which I think was the original cap... I don't remember 100% for sure) and 810 where it ended was a 55% reduction in XP
This change from 810 to 1800 is a 56% reduction.
I don't just say things willy nilly... I do my research, I check the numbers.
Except the increase from 351 to 810 was not in one hit after x years. But was increased gradually. Which means the curve kept flattening more and more. Meaning effectively the loss wasn't 55% but way less. As many of the Exp earned would have come at higher caps. (Half your stated 55%? Cant be arsed to do the math to see if it is linear....)
If they'd increased the PenaltyPoint by 30 every update in the last 2.5 years while keeping DistributablePoints at 810. The curve would have kept flattening a lot. And most of us would be much higher CP than we are.
ZOS *** up taking two and a half years.Edited by remosito on February 15, 2021 5:10PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)2 -
Ringod123✭✭✭
The combined effect of the changes from 351 (which I think was the original cap... I don't remember 100% for sure) and 810 where it ended was a 55% reduction in XP
This change from 810 to 1800 is a 56% reduction.
I don't just say things willy nilly... I do my research, I check the numbers.
[Snip]
Oh so now you're saying they went straight from 351 to 810, just to try and make it seem like it had any impact at all when done in small stages every year, OK.Edited by ZOS_Volpe on February 16, 2021 6:03PM0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh so now you're saying they went straight from 351 to 810, just to try and make it seem like it had any impact at all when done in small stages every year, OK.
The combined effect of it was somewhere in that range.
Without knowing your exact CP at each exact change you can't do that calculation.Edited by ZOS_Volpe on February 16, 2021 6:04PMThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger66,815 achievement points1 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭
The combined effect of it was somewhere in that range.
Without knowing your exact CP at each exact change you can't do that calculation.
yeah...somewhere in the range of 0 (everything done post 810) to 55% (everything done pre 351).....
No you cant do the exact calculations. But it's pretty obvious it's waaay lower than your stated 56%...
Edited by remosito on February 15, 2021 5:18PMShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)1 -
phantasmalD✭✭✭✭✭BalticBlues wrote: »Indeed. ZOS, please do not create two different XP systems.
Please keep things simple and understandable.
For all players, the same XP should always result in the same CP.
No matter when and how XP was earned, the CP from it should be exactly the same.
They are doing exactly that. You are the one asking them to create two systems.
The notion that ZoS tracks your total XP earned is a misguided belief. It's your level that is tracked. Your current level is put into a formula that determines how much XP you need for +1 level. Once you reach that milestone your XP is reset to 0, a new total is calculated and the extra XP is carried over from the previous level.
It's not your XP that determines your current level, but rather the other way around, your current level determines the required XP.
To be compensated for your ""stolen"" XP ZoS would have to do exactly what you are asking them to not do. Create two different XP sytems.
Or at least run a global compensation-algorithm that would award extra CP based on the XP difference.
Because that's the point of a catch-up system? Allowing newer players to catch up, aka reach the current ceiling faster than it was possible in the past.Lamagrokie wrote: »why should new players achieve 810 1200 and 1800 CP 2 or 4 times faster than we did
If new players had to play for 5 years to reach the point where we currently are, then they would never be able to participate in end-game because there would always be a 5-year gap.
Edited by phantasmalD on February 15, 2021 5:24PM1 -
phantasmalD wrote: »
They are doing exactly that. You are the one asking them to create two systems.
The notion that ZoS tracks your total XP earned is a misguided belief. It's your level that is tracked. Your current level is put into a formula that determines how much XP you need for +1 level. Once you reach that milestone your XP is reset to 0, a new total is calculated and the extra XP is carried over from the previous level.
It's not your XP that determines your current level, but rather the other way around, your current level determines the required XP.
To be compensated for your ""stolen"" XP ZoS would have to exactly what you are asking them to not do. Create two different XP sytems.
Or at least run a global compensation-algorithm that would award extra CP based on the XP difference.
Because that's the point of a catch-up system? Allowing newer players to catch up, aka reach the current ceiling faster than it was possible in the past.
You are right that they don't got all data about XP earned, however it's easy enough to convert all XP from old CP to new one.
SImply by making two massives, first contains total amount of XP for current CP system, second contains same data, but for CP 2.0 and then just convert.1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
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yeah...somewhere in the range of 0 (everything done post 810) to 55% (everything done pre 351).....
No you cant do the exact calculations. But it's pretty obvious it's waaay lower than your stated 56%...
since the word "steal" has been thrown around
good to know that you're okay if people steal from you little by little... but draw the line at larger amounts
(Not that I think they're stealing anything from us, refer to my minimum wage argument earlier)The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger66,815 achievement points1 -
Lamagrokie✭✭✭
since the word "steal" has been thrown around
good to know that you're okay if people steal from you little by little... but draw the line at larger amounts
(Not that I think they're stealing anything from us, refer to my minimum wage argument earlier)
You simply continuing ignoring what i'm saying, they doesn't stole anything from us earlier when it was 30 CP, because it was another system CP 1.0. But now it's completely another system , therefore now they could steal or XP when they will transfer from CP 1.0 to CP2.0(if the name CP confuses you, so call it differently to understand that they are not the same thing)1 -
Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭
That is only true for people who have gained all of their CP after the cap was already 810. Anyone who gained CP before that potentially used many different XP scales as the cap changed and those scales changed with them. For most people odds are 1200 CP does not equate to 515M XP.1 -
Luke_Flamesword✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No one taking anything from you. If you have to play couple years to get current level, new player will have to still play the game for half of this time (they don't get 2000 CP for free, you know?). In meantime you will get higher levels so you always will be ahead, so it only shortens the distance.
This is not game only for veterans and new players can't be punished only because they started playing 6 years after launch. Also thinking like "I had harder road, so everyone also have to have hard road" is very immature and selfish.
Oh, and I really like example with work and salary - that's exactly the point! PC | EU | DC |Stam Dk Breton2 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the new exp curve is more than fair and keeping people at the same cp as before is the better solution.
i would like more ways to get exp though, hint hint achievements.even the smallest flicker of light can overcome any amount of darkness
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of ESO REVAMP Ideas0 -
remosito✭✭✭✭✭
That is only true for people who have gained all of their CP after the cap was already 810. Anyone who gained CP before that potentially used many different XP scales as the cap changed and those scales changed with them. For most people odds are 1200 CP does not equate to 515M XP.
Indeed. It's the best case scenario. Ppl who joined pre 810 needed even more CP....ShutYerTrap (selectively mute NPC dialogues (stuga, companions); displayleads (antiquity leads location); UndauntedPledgeQueuer (small daily undaunted dungeon queuer window)0 -
Massacre_Wurm✭✭✭✭✭Lamagrokie wrote: »
that isn't decision, they just make another unfair move to vet players, why should new players achieve 810 1200 and 1800 CP 2 or 4 times faster than we did, they just kick us off. It wouldn't be a problem if it was same system, hower it's not and now all vet players will feal themselves as weak as new one.
Why ? Because any old mmo provide some sort of catch up mechanic for new players.
And "vet players" usually "feal as weak as new one" each time new expansion is released in almost any mmo.
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Ranger209✭✭✭✭✭So I am at 1200 cp, 1210 actually, and it may have taken me 600M XP to get there why should a person who got there at 515M XP get the same amount of CP as me, and why should I get the same amount as someone who took 700M XP to get to 1210. Why ? Because there was a catch up mechanic. That catchup mechanic is now in place based on an 1800CP level. If you give everyone an adjusted amount of CP base on the difference between the new system and the old then those new people have even a greater need of catching up. They have even further to catch up. That shouldn't be the case, as it removes the whole point of the catch up mechanic in the first place.0
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Marto✭✭✭✭✭
✭Every single CP I earn from now on will be faster than before.
Future me will have to do less grinding to get more powerful. I see this as a good thing, a bonus, a buff."According to the calculations of the sages of the Cult of the Ancestor Moth, the batam guar is the cutest creature in all Tamriel"4 -
Lamagrokie✭✭✭So I am at 1200 cp, 1210 actually, and it may have taken me 600M XP to get there why should a person who got there at 515M XP get the same amount of CP as me, and why should I get the same amount as someone who took 700M XP to get to 1210. Why ? Because there was a catch up mechanic. That catchup mechanic is now in place based on an 1800CP level. If you give everyone an adjusted amount of CP base on the difference between the new system and the old then those new people have even a greater need of catching up. They have even further to catch up. That shouldn't be the case, as it removes the whole point of the catch up mechanic in the first place.
I agree that new player should have some catch up mechanic, but this mechanic shouldn't impact on vet player as bad as it's, the price is to high, some players will lose hundred of millions XPEdited by Lamagrokie on February 15, 2021 6:56PM1