Most FAIR solution of scaling from CP 1.0 to CP 2.0

Lamagrokie · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

MrZeDark wrote: »

I 100% believe they should apply a shift.

It would be fair to those of us who have already been committed to playing, to reward us with a +lvl shift if the XP table is changing.

They changed the XP table on every other change to the cap

From 780 to 810
From 750 to 780
From 720 to 750
From 690 to 720
From... you get the point.

They've never retroactively given us what our CP would have been on the "new" scale.

They are simply following the precedent that they have previously set

I get that this is a larger change... but remember that this is one of few games where you can actually progress past the 'cap' anyways, and you still get credit for your longevity of play.

Don't agree with you on several reasons:
1) When they increase each patch CP rate for 30 points , cap players still was cap or just need to get 30 points on new formula (cause cap increase exp needed decrease), it was good and normal CP 1.0 system. But now they add not 30 or 100, or even 1000 CP points, they rework all system it's no longer CP 1.0 it's CP2.0 mistakenly to compare them. That's why following the precedent that they have previously set incorrectly on this situation.
This new system makes everyone weaker(and it's OK, new system new rules), and it will be fairly convert our eared XP on new system(because it was long period of time on which players farm it on current formula), otherwise they just takes our time spending on XP.

2)" ...One of few games where you can actually progress past the 'cap'... ", if they add such opportunity, it's their problem and decision that player could farm as much XP as they want, and it's unfair to stole it (I'm talking not about CP, i'm talking about XP!)

Ranger209 · February 2021

Thank you ZOS for the gift of 400 extra CP that you let me gain by allowing players to go over the cap of 810. I now happily sit at 1210 instead of still being stuck at 810 when I hit cap. Much appreciated.

stefj68 · February 2021

Ranger209 wrote: »

Thank you ZOS for the gift of 400 extra CP that you let me gain by allowing players to go over the cap of 810. I now happily sit at 1210 instead of still being stuck at 810 when I hit cap. Much appreciated.

april's fool?
zos won't give anything

FangOfTheTwoMoons · February 2021

Meiox wrote: »

You should be happy that you could allready earn more cp then the cap, there is no mmo where you could earn levels before they upped the level cap, at least I don't know any

If you knew anything about the history of this game you'd know that when we made the transition from Veteran Ranks to Champion Points players were compensated accordingly.

No one that was max Veteran Rank had to start at CP1

Coopersnow · February 2021

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Meiox wrote: »

You should be happy that you could allready earn more cp then the cap, there is no mmo where you could earn levels before they upped the level cap, at least I don't know any

If you knew anything about the history of this game you'd know that when we made the transition from Veteran Ranks to Champion Points players were compensated accordingly.

No one that was max Veteran Rank had to start at CP1

No, its really wasnt like that, CP were added before the transition from VR ranks to CP. Plus those were totally different situations.

Jayne_Doe · February 2021

Meiox wrote: »

You should be happy that you could allready earn more cp then the cap, there is no mmo where you could earn levels before they upped the level cap, at least I don't know any

Except the CP cap has always been 3600. They only instituted a cap on spendable CP as a bandaid fix for power creep (which has other contributing factors beside CP). They slowly increased that cap, until they left it at 810CP. 810 is NOT the CP cap. The CP cap is 3600. Which is why we have been able to continue to earn CP, even though we haven't been able to spend it.

And as for the notion of stolen CP, what about all the CP that was stolen whenever they adjusted the CP curve with the spendable cap increase? The curve has been adjusted several times already under the current system. And, with the new system, the curve is adjusted so that you may potentially earn the stolen CP at a faster rate.

Dark_Lord_Kuro · February 2021

They stole nothing
Im cp 1300 live not anyting more than that
I dont want them to give me free cp

Also it worked like this every time they raised the cap in the past

smittyhd60 · February 2021

Since the Dev's have not finalized how the new CP 2.0 is going to work and at what rate we will earn CP everthing right now is assumptions. With putting this on the PTS and giving players a chance to play and give feedback is great. The Dev's have already made some changes. And I am sure there will be some more changes before this content is released on the live server.

I will say that I, and most players, would not want to make the grind from CP810 cap to CP3600 cap at the rate CP level and CP points is currently earned. So with this in mind, here is what comes to my mind as a easy transistion from CP1.0 to CP2.0. Make the CP cap 900 and for each level you earn 4 points. Keep the XP formula the same since this is what the player base is used to. This would not affect players over CP900 since they would have all 3600 CP points. The rest of the player base would not be affected either and adding 90 additional levels to the cap would not be a big change.

The only other cap number to me that would work is CP1200 (3 points per level). And as the OP stated, if the XP formula changes, then all CP level players would take a pretty big XP hit if the switch was a 1 to 1 on your CP level. So it would have to be a 1 to 1 transfer of your earned XP. This way it is fair for all players. My character is CP835 (2,505 points) and a 1 to 1 XP transfer would put me at CP950 (2,850 points) to put the difference in perspective.

Xebov · February 2021

smittyhd60 wrote: »

Since the Dev's have not finalized how the new CP 2.0 is going to work and at what rate we will earn CP everthing right now is assumptions. With putting this on the PTS and giving players a chance to play and give feedback is great. The Dev's have already made some changes. And I am sure there will be some more changes before this content is released on the live server.

I will say that I, and most players, would not want to make the grind from CP810 cap to CP3600 cap at the rate CP level and CP points is currently earned. So with this in mind, here is what comes to my mind as a easy transistion from CP1.0 to CP2.0. Make the CP cap 900 and for each level you earn 4 points. Keep the XP formula the same since this is what the player base is used to. This would not affect players over CP900 since they would have all 3600 CP points. The rest of the player base would not be affected either and adding 90 additional levels to the cap would not be a big change.

The only other cap number to me that would work is CP1200 (3 points per level). And as the OP stated, if the XP formula changes, then all CP level players would take a pretty big XP hit if the switch was a 1 to 1 on your CP level. So it would have to be a 1 to 1 transfer of your earned XP. This way it is fair for all players. My character is CP835 (2,505 points) and a 1 to 1 XP transfer would put me at CP950 (2,850 points) to put the difference in perspective.

You could just flatten the curve by 50-75% and achieve the same, except that players would have to level. I dont think the problem is leveling some CP levels, its the pure amount of time needed thats simply way to high.

Ranger209 · February 2021

stefj68 wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

Thank you ZOS for the gift of 400 extra CP that you let me gain by allowing players to go over the cap of 810. I now happily sit at 1210 instead of still being stuck at 810 when I hit cap. Much appreciated.

april's fool?
zos won't give anything

What do you mean? I already have them. I am at 1210 CP right now. That is 400 CP that they let me get over the last two years. Probably get another one tonight.

Sju · February 2021

"Stolen xp"...

tmbrinks · February 2021

Maybe I should try this the next time I get a raise at work... that they owe me back pay at my new rate for all my previously worked hours...

Sju · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

Maybe I should try this the next time I get a raise at work... that they owe me back pay at my new rate for all my previously worked hours...

This was the exact analogy I was thinking. Imagine thinking you should get a lump sum bonus of the difference from your old to new rate of pay. "Well sir, I could have made all this $3 difference before, it isn't fair..."

Nordic__Knights · February 2021

Meiox wrote: »

You should be happy that you could allready earn more cp then the cap, there is no mmo where you could earn levels before they upped the level cap, at least I don't know any

then i guess your saying i should be glade they didnt take the 400cp ive always had over there placement cap not MAX cap as 3600 has always been MAX CP and 810 hasnt always been PLACEMENT CAP #
SO NO WE SHOULDNT BE HAPPY WE GOT PUT ON AN PLACEMENT CAP THAT HELD US BACK ON OUR GAIN THAT NOW IS BEING USED AS # USED FOE PLACEMENT
LOTS OF NEW PLAYERS DO KNOW CP WASNT ALWAYS CAPPED !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! STOP TRYING TO STAY GAIN OVER 810CP IS AN AWARAD AS ITS NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nordic__Knights · February 2021

Meiox wrote: »

ErMurazor wrote: »

I would be very suprised if they listened to us veterans. They cater for new players and casuals. Thats where the big crownstore buyers are. Money talks

If they cater to new players/casuals they wouldn't increase the max cp to 3600, this is only for veterans/hardcore players.

Only a small fraction from new player likes to grind 50+3600 levels, trust me^^

by making the max 3600 they just made getting cp 10-1200 about the same as getting to 160cp now and thats easy even under 1.0s system so yes they just hooked up new players withy this new system big time

Nordic__Knights · February 2021

Meiox wrote: »

kvitko_2012eb17_ESO wrote: »

Meiox wrote: »

You should be happy that you could allready earn more cp then the cap, there is no mmo where you could earn levels before they upped the level cap, at least I don't know any

It's not a problem of players that we are able to earn extra CP, if developer allowed it, it means they give us this opportunity with some sense. In this situation (1:1) they just take our fairly earned XP from us, it's not right.

You exchanged your exp the moment you reached a cp-level for a cp-point.
As you sad the developer made that you can gain cp points and they don't take any cp point from you.

It would not make any sense to increase a level cap and at the same moment increase the level of all veteran players.
You increase the level cap so that the players can level again

3600 has always been max cp your not getting that part here 810, 780, 750, 720, 690, 660, 630, 600 all have been PLACEMENT CAPS within an 3600 MAX system that DIDNT have CAPS to start with PLACEMENT CAPS was added because vet players was to strong for new players and old/new content

Nordic__Knights · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

Maybe I should try this the next time I get a raise at work... that they owe me back pay at my new rate for all my previously worked hours...

what OP and what your saying is way off to be used that way as your job didnt tell you ' hey heres you max pay , you can earn , then tell you , they are putting you on an cap but well hold whats over cap for you then YOU KNOW HOW THE STORE GOES ' we aint asking for something that aint ours we are asking that what is ours XP be respected when placing us into the new system its not hard to do nor un reasonable we earned ALL OUR XP why shouldnt it be used over an UNFRIENDLY SYSTEM S # THAT NEEDS REPLACED TO BEGAIN WITH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just keep the unfriendly acts going into new system that shows change lol

ApoAlaia · February 2021

ZOS will they as they will do, in the end of the day they have full control of the construct and if they are answerable to someone is definitely not us.

I am not going to rend my vestments over this one because I was fully aware when I agreed to the TOS that I was going to play on someone else's playground therefore rules and choices were going to be enforced in spite of my personal views and understanding. There was not going to be a debate or a public consultation;I was going to be given an ever shifting set of constraints to work within and the only realistic recourse I would have would be the uninstall button.

Said that to me, no matter how many ill fitting metaphors are conjured to justify the opposite, accrued XP is accrued XP therefore if the curve changes the yield should reflect it.

martijnlv40 · February 2021

Yeah this really needs to be done. I believe saying this has been my only contribution on the forum this pts cycle so far lol. This is no more than fair. It would, as you say, just evaporate xp earned for a lot of people (that play the game a lot, that's pretty relevant). There's still enough grinding to be done, so no one has to worry about already having completed 3600 cp. I would bet there's not even 1 person who would get that with what you suggest. Please ZOS, it's time to listen again.

tmbrinks · February 2021

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Maybe I should try this the next time I get a raise at work... that they owe me back pay at my new rate for all my previously worked hours...

what OP and what your saying is way off to be used that way as your job didnt tell you ' hey heres you max pay , you can earn , then tell you , they are putting you on an cap but well hold whats over cap for you then YOU KNOW HOW THE STORE GOES ' we aint asking for something that aint ours we are asking that what is ours XP be respected when placing us into the new system its not hard to do nor un reasonable we earned ALL OUR XP why shouldnt it be used over an UNFRIENDLY SYSTEM S # THAT NEEDS REPLACED TO BEGAIN WITH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just keep the unfriendly acts going into new system that shows change lol

Where was this rage when they didn't do this the other 15 or so times they have raised the cap?

Because they've never have given us back credit before.

Heck, when they shifted to the CP system from the Veteran Ranking system, once I hit V10 (or V12 or V14 or V16) when they moved the ACTUAL HARD CAP, I never got any XP credit for continuing to play that character. I only got a flat amount for a V16 character, didn't matter if they hit it the day before, or months before. But once I hit CP "soft cap" I was able to continue to earn XP, at a reduced rate (due to the x1.5 penalty) and then get that power immediately upon a change to the soft cap.

Meiox · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

Where was this rage when they didn't do this the other 15 or so times they have raised the cap?

When was the last time they did increase the cap by more than 1000 or even 100 Levels?

tmbrinks · February 2021

Meiox wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Where was this rage when they didn't do this the other 15 or so times they have raised the cap?

When was the last time they did increase the cap by more than 1000 or even 100 Levels?

You only need 1100 CP to get to maximum efficiency for your role so at most, they're increasing it by 300... to a level we'd pretty much be at had they continued to give us 30 per patch.

Everything above is for off-stats for ease of changing.

Stop acting like you need all 3600 CP to play the game. It's disingenuous, it's false.

Meiox · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

You only need 1100 CP to get to maximum efficiency for your role so at most, they're increasing it by 300... to a level we'd pretty much be at had they continued to give us 30 per patch.

Everything above is for off-stats for ease of changing.

Stop acting like you need all 3600 CP to play the game. It's disingenuous, it's false.

pvp player, for example, tend to disagree, others say the range you need is between 1200-2400 for max performance, we will see who is right.

Starlock · February 2021

Sju wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Maybe I should try this the next time I get a raise at work... that they owe me back pay at my new rate for all my previously worked hours...

This was the exact analogy I was thinking. Imagine thinking you should get a lump sum bonus of the difference from your old to new rate of pay. "Well sir, I could have made all this $3 difference before, it isn't fair..."

Nah, this is more like paying to gas up your car and then having someone switch out the engine to one that has horrible MPG -and the person who switched your engine out was the same company selling you the gas.

Some players have spent real world money on XP scrolls. Now, suddenly, the value of their purchased has been diminished or outright negated. "Stolen" is perhaps an entirely fair word for that, and I wonder if ZoS is getting into a legal grey area here because they sell progression in their cash shop.

AlnilamE · February 2021

Meiox wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Where was this rage when they didn't do this the other 15 or so times they have raised the cap?

When was the last time they did increase the cap by more than 1000 or even 100 Levels?

Does it matter? Like, I've always been above the CP cap. Never earned a CP for less than 400k XP. I have 1400~ CP right now. If they had "compensated" me every time they adjusted the cap, I would probably have 2000 about now.

So no, they didn't care about people above the cap before, they are not going to care now.

But I think we should be asking for the 1.5x XP penalty above 1020 CP to be removed.

FangOfTheTwoMoons wrote: »

Meiox wrote: »

You should be happy that you could allready earn more cp then the cap, there is no mmo where you could earn levels before they upped the level cap, at least I don't know any

If you knew anything about the history of this game you'd know that when we made the transition from Veteran Ranks to Champion Points players were compensated accordingly.

No one that was max Veteran Rank had to start at CP1

We were not "compensated accordingly", we got a nominal amount of CP based on what our highest Vet Rank was. If you had 1 character at V16 or 8 characters at V16, you got the same amount of CP.

Nordic__Knights · February 2021

tmbrinks wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Maybe I should try this the next time I get a raise at work... that they owe me back pay at my new rate for all my previously worked hours...

what OP and what your saying is way off to be used that way as your job didnt tell you ' hey heres you max pay , you can earn , then tell you , they are putting you on an cap but well hold whats over cap for you then YOU KNOW HOW THE STORE GOES ' we aint asking for something that aint ours we are asking that what is ours XP be respected when placing us into the new system its not hard to do nor un reasonable we earned ALL OUR XP why shouldnt it be used over an UNFRIENDLY SYSTEM S # THAT NEEDS REPLACED TO BEGAIN WITH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just keep the unfriendly acts going into new system that shows change lol

Where was this rage when they didn't do this the other 15 or so times they have raised the cap?

Because they've never have given us back credit before.

Heck, when they shifted to the CP system from the Veteran Ranking system, once I hit V10 (or V12 or V14 or V16) when they moved the ACTUAL HARD CAP, I never got any XP credit for continuing to play that character. I only got a flat amount for a V16 character, didn't matter if they hit it the day before, or months before. But once I hit CP "soft cap" I was able to continue to earn XP, at a reduced rate (due to the x1.5 penalty) and then get that power immediately upon a change to the soft cap.

thats bs even with VR when the whent up id log in and be new max without doing anything but log in i had 3 VR 14 GOT TURNS VR16 WHILE I WAS WORKING ON 4TH THAT WAS VR9 AT THE TIME GOT THEM TO VR12 BEFORE change over to cp where they credited US for all XP under the VR system even when that XP was split between x a mount of toons made as VR wasnt account base XP but toon based XP PER LVL

tmbrinks · February 2021

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Maybe I should try this the next time I get a raise at work... that they owe me back pay at my new rate for all my previously worked hours...

what OP and what your saying is way off to be used that way as your job didnt tell you ' hey heres you max pay , you can earn , then tell you , they are putting you on an cap but well hold whats over cap for you then YOU KNOW HOW THE STORE GOES ' we aint asking for something that aint ours we are asking that what is ours XP be respected when placing us into the new system its not hard to do nor un reasonable we earned ALL OUR XP why shouldnt it be used over an UNFRIENDLY SYSTEM S # THAT NEEDS REPLACED TO BEGAIN WITH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just keep the unfriendly acts going into new system that shows change lol

Where was this rage when they didn't do this the other 15 or so times they have raised the cap?

Because they've never have given us back credit before.

Heck, when they shifted to the CP system from the Veteran Ranking system, once I hit V10 (or V12 or V14 or V16) when they moved the ACTUAL HARD CAP, I never got any XP credit for continuing to play that character. I only got a flat amount for a V16 character, didn't matter if they hit it the day before, or months before. But once I hit CP "soft cap" I was able to continue to earn XP, at a reduced rate (due to the x1.5 penalty) and then get that power immediately upon a change to the soft cap.

thats bs even with VR when the whent up id log in and be new max without doing anything but log in i had 3 VR 14 GOT TURNS VR16 WHILE I WAS WORKING ON 4TH THAT WAS VR9 AT THE TIME GOT THEM TO VR12 BEFORE change over to cp where they credited US for all XP under the VR system even when that XP was split between x a mount of toons made as VR wasnt account base XP but toon based XP PER LVL

You can't change what you're referring to as people bring up other counterpoints.

Yes, you got credit for each V16 character you had. But once you hit the hard cap during the veteran rank days, you could no longer earn XP on that character. That is an undeniable fact. You've been able to earn XP above the cap the entire time of the CP system. Also an undeniable fact.

I had 3 V16 characters when they changed over to the CP system. They (my account) was not at maximum under the new system, I had to grind out some XP to get it to the soft cap, so that's a lie.

CleymenZero · February 2021

Lamagrokie wrote: »

All players in ESO somehow gather XP, someone got more other one less and it's OK.
I've already come to terms with the fact that in the upcoming patch, i will feal myself ( as all players, and it's also OK ) weaker and need to grind CP again, someone will say "You don't need all 3600 CP to play, or it's don't necessary to grind "and so on ...; on the one hand they are right on the other they are wrong, AND it's also OK, because most everyone will need to grind.

For current CP system (CP 1.0) there are 2 active formulas:
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
, where x is your current number of Champion Points.

All ESO players gain XP due this formulas, so it's our fair XP earned, BUT with upcoming update developers want to still our XP (if it will be 1:1).
Here is example why:
On live server someone got 1200 CP (on CP 1.0), it means that he totally earned 515'521'812 XP, based on the data provided on the eso-hub, with new update this amount of XP match ~1367-1368 CP, BUT if it'll be 1:1 it means that he will lose from his current XP's:
515'521'812 - 376'100'891 = 139'420'921
, where
515'521'812 - amount of XP needed to reach 1200 CP with CP 1.0
376'100'891 - amount of XP needed to reach 1200 CP with CP 2.0
139'420'921 - your stolen XP (that's a lot).
Conclusion:
Fair solution of OUR transition from OLD CP system to NEW CP, is to convert our total XP earned to equal amount of XP (not equal amount CP) on new CP system.

I don't if it's a technical issue or a pettiness issue like these perfected maelstrom weapons but whenever the PTS first came out, I made a post to discuss the conversion. That was before they made the germean language Q&A.

The correct way to go about it would be to convert XP. Proper or correct is definitely not what happens most times in ESO.

If we make enough noise, things could change but there's not nearly enough momentum to make things change. Do notify me though if things start to move. XD

simpledude31998 · February 2021

Lamagrokie wrote: »

All players in ESO somehow gather XP, someone got more other one less and it's OK.
I've already come to terms with the fact that in the upcoming patch, i will feal myself ( as all players, and it's also OK ) weaker and need to grind CP again, someone will say "You don't need all 3600 CP to play, or it's don't necessary to grind "and so on ...; on the one hand they are right on the other they are wrong, AND it's also OK, because most everyone will need to grind.

For current CP system (CP 1.0) there are 2 active formulas:
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000) if x ≤ cap
(((x / (cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000 * 1.5) if x > cap
, where x is your current number of Champion Points.

All ESO players gain XP due this formulas, so it's our fair XP earned, BUT with upcoming update developers want to still our XP (if it will be 1:1).
Here is example why:
On live server someone got 1200 CP (on CP 1.0), it means that he totally earned 515'521'812 XP, based on the data provided on the eso-hub, with new update this amount of XP match ~1367-1368 CP, BUT if it'll be 1:1 it means that he will lose from his current XP's:
515'521'812 - 376'100'891 = 139'420'921
, where
515'521'812 - amount of XP needed to reach 1200 CP with CP 1.0
376'100'891 - amount of XP needed to reach 1200 CP with CP 2.0
139'420'921 - your stolen XP (that's a lot).
Conclusion:
Fair solution of OUR transition from OLD CP system to NEW CP, is to convert our total XP earned to equal amount of XP (not equal amount CP) on new CP system.

Fully agree

tmbrinks · February 2021

They just changed the scaling so it's at 1800 instead of 1020.

It's a full 56% reduction in the amount of XP needed...

Then you get back-to-back double XP events with Jester's and Anniversary

They have more than heard the complaints, and have made adjustments.