Most FAIR solution of scaling from CP 1.0 to CP 2.0

trackdemon5512

Ringod123 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

So please drop this parity concept.

I mean you clearly do not seem to understand the concept of Parity, parity is not about having the same power as we did before, its about being on an equal footing with others, something I achieved after 2.5K hours of play and something I have had for the past 1K hours of play. That is now being taken away from me until I reach CP1800, which will take another 2K or so hours on top of the 3.5K I already have. No thanks, im out.

@Ringod123

ZOS stated that the statistics show the vast majority of the player base is around CP400-something. For those at the higher end of the spectrum they hover around 1100 to 1300.

CP1800 is a rare beast these days and they've had no competitive advantage against you up to now other than having more experience. When this update goes live that CP1800 means jack if you have better skill. That's how this game has always been. A CP300 can always beat an 810 if they know what they're doing. The same will be when the patch goes live.

I cannot stress enough that before CP810 was a thing there were always players ahead of others/already at the next cap and those working to catch up. You'll just have to play that game again but it really means nothing now. It's not more power for those players but more choices in the form of horizontal gains.

You won't be facing an army of CP1800+, you'll be seeing 1100s and so forth as the max for 99% of encounters. That 1800 will barely ever pop up. And if your competitive advantage up to this point has solely been your CP over others then you and other players need to go back and refine your play styles.

A CP50 can competently finish and flawless VMA but that doesn't mean a CP3600 is on easy street and is guaranteed to complete the content.

If you wish to leave then that's your choice but I always suggest people don't give up on a game as good as this one over perceived slights.

Ringod123

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

If you wish to leave then that's your choice but I always suggest people don't give up on a game as good as this one over perceived slights.

Having my parity removed after already having played 1K hours over the time it took to get there and being told I need another 2-3k just to get it back is not a perceived slight, nor is it the only reason I will be walking away on Monday, it's simply the straw that broke the camels back after multiple years of neglect for PvP and declining performance.

tmbrinks

Ringod123 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

So please drop this parity concept.

I mean you clearly do not seem to understand the concept of Parity, parity is not about having the same power as we did before, its about being on an equal footing with others, something I achieved after 2.5K hours of play and something I have had for the past 1K hours of play. That is now being taken away from me until I reach CP1800, which will take another 2K or so hours on top of the 3.5K I already have. No thanks, im out.

But you're asking to get parity with the player that has played for 6k hours from your 3.5k hours.

So you're asking the person with more time to lose their playtime and be brought back to parity with you.

trackdemon5512

Ringod123 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

If you wish to leave then that's your choice but I always suggest people don't give up on a game as good as this one over perceived slights.

Having my parity removed after already having played 1K hours over the time it took to get there and being told I need another 2-3k just to get it back is not a perceived slight, nor is it the only reason I will be walking away on Monday, it's simply the straw that broke the camels back after multiple years of neglect for PvP and declining performance.

I’m sorry but I really can’t understand your argument that is shared by others. Let me see if I can break it down:

1. Parity isn’t defined as matching current combat ability pre-patch versus post-patch. You define Parity as having matching the same possible combat ability as other players.

2. That after playing 46 days worth of in game time you feel it’s unfair that you have to add another 90 to 110 days to reach this perceived parity.

3. That between the time played/invested and your concept of parity that this is totally unfair.

—————

The reason why I can’t see eye-to-eye on this is that whenever a CP increase occurred in the past you had 3 groups of players:

Group A) Newer players under the current cap and leveling toward both the current and new cap. If the cap was moving from 690 to 720, these players were well under 690.

Group B ) Players at cap but not yet at the soon to be implemented cap. So in the previous example sitting between 690 and 720. These players will have to level to reach the new cap.

Group C) Players beyond both caps. In the same example these are those above 720. They get a power increase and are already at cap when the patch happens. The other players are working toward this but these particular players have already put in the time and were awarded the CP.

———————

This is how the leveling in this game has ALWAYS been. Nothing is really changing with regards to the method next patch. Yes the techincal cap is being raised to 3600 but maybe 3 players on PC are even there and those players made it dedicated goals to level up there with no benefit beside notoriety.

The new important combat cap is 1200 where combat power advancement starts to become minute. 1800 is just where it all ends according to the devs.

The numbers of players at those high levels of 1800+ are very few and far between. And I can guarantee that their in-game play time can be measured in months if not years on single characters alone, if nothing to say about all characters together.

Why should you or any other player who hasn’t put in as much time or leveled as much XP as them expect that just because the ceiling is being raised again you should be matching them? That players like myself or I’m assuming @tmbrinks should have players who haven’t invested as much as us be radically boosted up to match what we’ve worked for?

The developers did right in capping the combat well below where the extremes are but players still have to work for that cap point, even if they’re currently at cap. Because as we’ve seen from every patch pre-Murkmire this is how things were done and it was extremely fair.

Marto

ZOS adjusting the XP curve is a catch up mechanic.

It's meant to make it easier and faster for newer players to obtain the same level of power as older players.

Catch up mechanics are inherently unfair.

There's no point in arguing what the most fair solution is. Because fairness is not the point.

Catch up mechanics are necessary for the long-term health of any and all MMOs. ESO is no exception.

Secondsz

Please stop defending this.

Anyone CP810-900 have a month of grind ahead just to get back to where they were.. thats at 20 levels a day.. with double exp events we wont have for the entire month duration.. without missing a day..

Just to get back to where we were.

No thanks.

trackdemon5512

Secondsz wrote: »

Please stop defending this.

Anyone CP810-900 have a month of grind ahead just to get back to where they were.. thats at 20 levels a day.. with double exp events we wont have for the entire month duration.. without missing a day..

Just to get back to where we were.

No thanks.

But you're not going back to where you were. There is a false equivalency here with the thought that 1200 is where you were with 810. There is to be a flat 10%-15% damage output decrease at the top end of the board. From where your damage is maxed out possible TODAY, the max output at any level is to be decreased to 10%-15% below that. There is no going back to current numbers.

And if you hit CP1200 or CP1800 and get those numbers ZOS has stated that they will go back to the CP allocations and reduce the effectiveness of those points to hit that mark. If it's not this patch then it's the next or the one after that and so forth as necessary.

Everyone right now regardless of their actual CP is hitting CP1.0 damage numbers at the max of 110k or the like. Regardless if you're CP1200 or CP3600 in CP2.0 ZOS wants you hitting 10%-15% below 110k.

Your "grind" to get back to where you were can't happen because it doesn't exist. The system is new and cannot truly be compared to 1.0. You worked to hit X amount of crazy DPS under CP1.0 is great. If you were able to hit 90k to 110k that's amazing. But the developers did not intend for numbers to get that high in the first place. They don't want it to be that high in the future. It damages the overall meta of the game.

CP 2.0 isn't a punishment or a slight against what you've put in. It's a REBALANCING and players need to separate their individual wants for how they think things should be from the general needs that the system has to be in order to continue in the long term.


*P.S.*

And if you think this is bad, then wait until the inevitable change to light attacks and heavy attacks. ZOS has been wanting to do away with this light attack weaving meta for a long time as it was unintentional in terms of the original design. It was kept in because advanced players liked the feel of speedy combat but it clearly creates a skill barrier between players AND increases messaging frequency to the servers. They tested changes last year and only decided to not immediately implement them, they haven't shelved the notion completely like Spellcrafting.

remosito

[

Marto wrote: »

ZOS adjusting the XP curve is a catch up mechanic.

It's meant to make it easier and faster for newer players to obtain the same level of power as older players.

Catch up mechanics are inherently unfair.

There's no point in arguing what the most fair solution is. Because fairness is not the point.

Catch up mechanics are necessary for the long-term health of any and all MMOs. ESO is no exception.

vertical ptogression cap is a much better catchup mechanic and much fairer imo.

double enlightenment for lower level players woyld be a catchup mechanic. and much fairer to vets.. imo again.

it's not like there are no alternatives to tossing out 60% of all Xp earned by vets.

Sahidom

I feel there's a disconnect on the valuation of the experience:champion point ratio moving from 1.0 to 2.0, where demand wants an accreditation for a CP bump based on accumulated experience. This doesn't make sense.

It's almost like consumerism is RL, a loaf of bread costs $x from a store, people paid the amount, then store remodels itself and now offering a loaf of bread $x less to move the massive volume waiting to be sold; Now people don't go back to the store and demand Y number loafs of bread since they paid the previous cost before the new pricing; thus wanting to get more for nothing paid on this basic example of unrealism. No one does this, no one rants to the store owner on why they can't get a credit on the difference they spent beforehand to get more bread because they paid old prices for so long.

That's the disconnect I'm reading on this whole thread.

CleymenZero

Sahidom wrote: »

I feel there's a disconnect on the valuation of the experience:champion point ratio moving from 1.0 to 2.0, where demand wants an accreditation for a CP bump based on accumulated experience. This doesn't make sense.

It's almost like consumerism is RL, a loaf of bread costs $x from a store, people paid the amount, then store remodels itself and now offering a loaf of bread $x less to move the massive volume waiting to be sold; Now people don't go back to the store and demand Y number loafs of bread since they paid the previous cost before the new pricing; thus wanting to get more for nothing paid on this basic example of unrealism. No one does this, no one rants to the store owner on why they can't get a credit on the difference they spent beforehand to get more bread because they paid old prices for so long.

That's the disconnect I'm reading on this whole thread.

Seriously, the material goods comparison is so overplayed and completely off.

Let's say experience point was irl experience in a certain job. If you changed jobs or the company restructured and had to reconsider your position, that experience would likely get recognized in another job and you therefore could enter/maintain a senior position VS starting again at the bottom of the ladder.

Experience in life is non-material and your bread is.

The bread example relates more to what's happening with the harvesting passives. They're increasing the drop rate so that you'll get 50% more mats which is higher than previous rate.

Now if you did a lot a surveys before the PTS being published, you might say: "hey, I was getting that much for my surveys and now I can get that much more, I want my surveys back".

So comparing scenarios to proper things make sense otherwise, I could justify any point of view stretching analogies to make them look like they relate to the same things when they don't.

Sahidom

CleymenZero wrote: »

Sahidom wrote: »

I feel there's a disconnect on the valuation of the experience:champion point ratio moving from 1.0 to 2.0, where demand wants an accreditation for a CP bump based on accumulated experience. This doesn't make sense.

It's almost like consumerism is RL, a loaf of bread costs $x from a store, people paid the amount, then store remodels itself and now offering a loaf of bread $x less to move the massive volume waiting to be sold; Now people don't go back to the store and demand Y number loafs of bread since they paid the previous cost before the new pricing; thus wanting to get more for nothing paid on this basic example of unrealism. No one does this, no one rants to the store owner on why they can't get a credit on the difference they spent beforehand to get more bread because they paid old prices for so long.

That's the disconnect I'm reading on this whole thread.

Seriously, the material goods comparison is so overplayed and completely off.

Let's say experience point was irl experience in a certain job. If you changed jobs or the company restructured and had to reconsider your position, that experience would likely get recognized in another job and you therefore could enter/maintain a senior position VS starting again at the bottom of the ladder.

Experience in life is non-material and your bread is.

The bread example relates more to what's happening with the harvesting passives. They're increasing the drop rate so that you'll get 50% more mats which is higher than previous rate.

Now if you did a lot a surveys before the PTS being published, you might say: "hey, I was getting that much for my surveys and now I can get that much more, I want my surveys back".

So comparing scenarios to proper things make sense otherwise, I could justify any point of view stretching analogies to make them look like they relate to the same things when they don't.

Your point still doesn't elaborate on why someone should receive more CP in a experience conversion.

The bread analogy was not paralleling resource markets but you do point to the direct truth: when to cost changes people don't go back tot he vendor and asks for more products since their past purchases equate out to be more under the new pricing.

When anyone doesnt understand that basic lesson within the analogy than I'm sorry for them.

Yamenstein

Most fair solution has already been suggested by ZOS. I'm not a fan of all their decisions and I have agreed with a lot of gameplay changes that they have made throughout the games life. But what they are doing is fine.

CleymenZero

Sahidom wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Sahidom wrote: »

I feel there's a disconnect on the valuation of the experience:champion point ratio moving from 1.0 to 2.0, where demand wants an accreditation for a CP bump based on accumulated experience. This doesn't make sense.

It's almost like consumerism is RL, a loaf of bread costs $x from a store, people paid the amount, then store remodels itself and now offering a loaf of bread $x less to move the massive volume waiting to be sold; Now people don't go back to the store and demand Y number loafs of bread since they paid the previous cost before the new pricing; thus wanting to get more for nothing paid on this basic example of unrealism. No one does this, no one rants to the store owner on why they can't get a credit on the difference they spent beforehand to get more bread because they paid old prices for so long.

That's the disconnect I'm reading on this whole thread.

Seriously, the material goods comparison is so overplayed and completely off.

Let's say experience point was irl experience in a certain job. If you changed jobs or the company restructured and had to reconsider your position, that experience would likely get recognized in another job and you therefore could enter/maintain a senior position VS starting again at the bottom of the ladder.

Experience in life is non-material and your bread is.

The bread example relates more to what's happening with the harvesting passives. They're increasing the drop rate so that you'll get 50% more mats which is higher than previous rate.

Now if you did a lot a surveys before the PTS being published, you might say: "hey, I was getting that much for my surveys and now I can get that much more, I want my surveys back".

So comparing scenarios to proper things make sense otherwise, I could justify any point of view stretching analogies to make them look like they relate to the same things when they don't.

Your point still doesn't elaborate on why someone should receive more CP in a experience conversion.

The bread analogy was not paralleling resource markets but you do point to the direct truth: when to cost changes people don't go back tot he vendor and asks for more products since their past purchases equate out to be more under the new pricing.

When anyone doesnt understand that basic lesson within the analogy than I'm sorry for them.

I've been called a bully in this thread when I'm just pointing out what people don't understand. Instead of attacking one another, why not try to understand.

I've stated that I understand your point and put forward a more applicable scenario. I don't agree with your bread analogy and your survey applying to the experience and CP level. Expereience vs gold/potions/soul gems/surveys ressources etc are not exactly relatable.

When they cut in half the jewelry upgrade materials required, I didn't ask for my mats back. I collected about 30k raw mats of each ressource through surveys, I'm not gonna ask for my surveys back because incoukdve gotten more from them.

Musta spent idk how many million AP and gold on potions and there will be a passive that will make it that I'll save 10% of my pots (10% chance of not consuming pot over thousands to be used will save 10%. If your sample size is large enough a % chance of something happening will be the % of time something will actually happen). I'm not gonna ask my potions and mats back.

They've nerfed tons of sets that I've golded. Never asked for mats back.

When murkmire dropped, I transmute my stam weapons to then swap the way enchants worked on 1h and had to swap back. Never asked for anything back.

The experienced, as my CP level, has been accrued. I still have that under the current system. My CP reflects that I've earned about 870m exp. It is a fact.

So, in my example, it raises the point that experience translates. So the person in question that has 8 years as a director of sales should be able to get a similar job and even get further ahead were he to look for a job.

In the way it's being translated over to the new system, a direct translation will not attest to the amount of experience one has earned.

To be clear, my stance is not a result wanting to get or stay ahead of the pack or a matter of ego that I would want it converted on the basis of earned expereience. My point is, first and foremost, the experience was simply earned. Second, as I will likely already be able to max out my slottable and non-slottable, getting the CP that corresponds to my experience earned would simply be a matter of QoL. It would simply mean that I wouldn't need to respect when I go from pvp to pve etc.

Sahidom

CleymenZero wrote: »

Sahidom wrote: »

CleymenZero wrote: »

Sahidom wrote: »

I feel there's a disconnect on the valuation of the experience:champion point ratio moving from 1.0 to 2.0, where demand wants an accreditation for a CP bump based on accumulated experience. This doesn't make sense.

It's almost like consumerism is RL, a loaf of bread costs $x from a store, people paid the amount, then store remodels itself and now offering a loaf of bread $x less to move the massive volume waiting to be sold; Now people don't go back to the store and demand Y number loafs of bread since they paid the previous cost before the new pricing; thus wanting to get more for nothing paid on this basic example of unrealism. No one does this, no one rants to the store owner on why they can't get a credit on the difference they spent beforehand to get more bread because they paid old prices for so long.

That's the disconnect I'm reading on this whole thread.

Seriously, the material goods comparison is so overplayed and completely off.

Let's say experience point was irl experience in a certain job. If you changed jobs or the company restructured and had to reconsider your position, that experience would likely get recognized in another job and you therefore could enter/maintain a senior position VS starting again at the bottom of the ladder.

Experience in life is non-material and your bread is.

The bread example relates more to what's happening with the harvesting passives. They're increasing the drop rate so that you'll get 50% more mats which is higher than previous rate.

Now if you did a lot a surveys before the PTS being published, you might say: "hey, I was getting that much for my surveys and now I can get that much more, I want my surveys back".

So comparing scenarios to proper things make sense otherwise, I could justify any point of view stretching analogies to make them look like they relate to the same things when they don't.

Your point still doesn't elaborate on why someone should receive more CP in a experience conversion.

The bread analogy was not paralleling resource markets but you do point to the direct truth: when to cost changes people don't go back tot he vendor and asks for more products since their past purchases equate out to be more under the new pricing.

When anyone doesnt understand that basic lesson within the analogy than I'm sorry for them.

I've been called a bully in this thread when I'm just pointing out what people don't understand. Instead of attacking one another, why not try to understand.

I've stated that I understand your point and put forward a more applicable scenario. I don't agree with your bread analogy and your survey applying to the experience and CP level. Expereience vs gold/potions/soul gems/surveys ressources etc are not exactly relatable.

When they cut in half the jewelry upgrade materials required, I didn't ask for my mats back. I collected about 30k raw mats of each ressource through surveys, I'm not gonna ask for my surveys back because incoukdve gotten more from them.

Musta spent idk how many million AP and gold on potions and there will be a passive that will make it that I'll save 10% of my pots (10% chance of not consuming pot over thousands to be used will save 10%. If your sample size is large enough a % chance of something happening will be the % of time something will actually happen). I'm not gonna ask my potions and mats back.

They've nerfed tons of sets that I've golded. Never asked for mats back.

When murkmire dropped, I transmute my stam weapons to then swap the way enchants worked on 1h and had to swap back. Never asked for anything back.

The experienced, as my CP level, has been accrued. I still have that under the current system. My CP reflects that I've earned about 870m exp. It is a fact.

So, in my example, it raises the point that experience translates. So the person in question that has 8 years as a director of sales should be able to get a similar job and even get further ahead were he to look for a job.

In the way it's being translated over to the new system, a direct translation will not attest to the amount of experience one has earned.

To be clear, my stance is not a result wanting to get or stay ahead of the pack or a matter of ego that I would want it converted on the basis of earned expereience. My point is, first and foremost, the experience was simply earned. Second, as I will likely already be able to max out my slottable and non-slottable, getting the CP that corresponds to my experience earned would simply be a matter of QoL. It would simply mean that I wouldn't need to respect when I go from pvp to pve etc.

I wanted to apologize for any misunderstanding. I was not trying to attack anyone on the thread; I do understand why your position is overlaying the earned exp. to the 2.0 curve to determine the next CP placement. This would benefit me greatly since my accounts are on the high end for CP levels; but I don't feel the request to be adjusted holds up. I see the new CP 2.0 system, as their address to both PVP and PVE issues that gained notoriety.

As the new system encompass other aspects of the game, it unfortunately brushes up against some QoL concerns we all will have had once enjoyed under the 1.0 system. I sympathize.

Grimm_Cortex

Sahidom wrote: »

Your point still doesn't elaborate on why someone should receive more CP in a experience conversion.

The bread analogy was not paralleling resource markets but you do point to the direct truth: when to cost changes people don't go back tot he vendor and asks for more products since their past purchases equate out to be more under the new pricing.

When anyone doesnt understand that basic lesson within the analogy than I'm sorry for them.

That's where you haven't not understood our point, we don't ask for more XPs, we asked ZOS to recognize our current XP and not recognize only our actual CPs.

Because they change the curve of experience, they could do this for players that's spent a lot of their time in game doing content.

Furthermore, some content already done and not able to be done again (like quest) give us xps, so new player will be rewards more than we were .. not so fair !

Sahidom

Grimm_Cortex wrote: »

That's where you haven't not understood our point, we don't ask for more XPs, we asked ZOS to recognize our current XP and not recognize only our actual CPs.

Because they change the curve of experience, they could do this for players that's spent a lot of their time in game doing content.

Furthermore, some content already done and not able to be done again (like quest) give us xps, so new player will be rewards more than we were .. not so fair !

I do understand the argument. Here is a twist of logic, in an attempt to explain why it doesn't hold up. The petition is requesting for more experience but this experience would be translated into gained Champion Points. You argue in your favor, you've already would have earned the experience to place my account X champion points further on total CP. The accumulated experience may not be a tangible subtotal of the account profile, and therefore inaccessible at the time of conversion.

For instance, each CP gain resets the experience meter to a new value. When this meter reaches 100% then a new variable value becomes the meter target value before the cycle begins again.

Under this example, experience is fleeting and does not accumulated into a single value to be easily converted into the new Experience curve, containing the formula that sets the meter target value to qualify for adding a new Champion Point to the account.

Therefore, the experience "processed" through the new 2.0 system would be gained experience. I get this doesn't sound right yet unless experience is a constant accumulated value versus a revolving variable value that represents next CP gain then ZOS would have to run an extensive separate database script to recalculate every accounts total earned experience than iterate this discovered value through their new experience curve to determine the adjusted account CP level.

I just don't feel they'll do this, and they've said they won't do this... It may be too much effort on their part or they don't want to risk finding any hidden complications. Idk.

ApoAlaia

Sahidom wrote: »

Grimm_Cortex wrote: »

That's where you haven't not understood our point, we don't ask for more XPs, we asked ZOS to recognize our current XP and not recognize only our actual CPs.

Because they change the curve of experience, they could do this for players that's spent a lot of their time in game doing content.

Furthermore, some content already done and not able to be done again (like quest) give us xps, so new player will be rewards more than we were .. not so fair !

I do understand the argument. Here is a twist of logic, in an attempt to explain why it doesn't hold up. The petition is requesting for more experience but this experience would be translated into gained Champion Points. You argue in your favor, you've already would have earned the experience to place my account X champion points further on total CP. The accumulated experience may not be a tangible subtotal of the account profile, and therefore inaccessible at the time of conversion.

For instance, each CP gain resets the experience meter to a new value. When this meter reaches 100% then a new variable value becomes the meter target value before the cycle begins again.

Under this example, experience is fleeting and does not accumulated into a single value to be easily converted into the new Experience curve, containing the formula that sets the meter target value to qualify for adding a new Champion Point to the account.

Therefore, the experience "processed" through the new 2.0 system would be gained experience. I get this doesn't sound right yet unless experience is a constant accumulated value versus a revolving variable value that represents next CP gain then ZOS would have to run an extensive separate database script to recalculate every accounts total earned experience than iterate this discovered value through their new experience curve to determine the adjusted account CP level.

I just don't feel they'll do this, and they've said they won't do this... It may be too much effort on their part or they don't want to risk finding any hidden complications. Idk.

When I logged out today I had 1.09M XP visible on the meter in the UI.

According to your logic this experience will translate into me logging in with 2 extra CP plus almost a full meter for the third correct?

Because this experience is definitely tallied up and visible on the meter.

EDIT: Not being deliberately petty, just pointing it out because my head hurts of all the times I had to read 'you are not losing any experience' in the past few weeks.

EDIT2: OK, maybe I am being petty, but my head does hurt from this and the 'think of the children' argument cropping up every other post.

dmvab

Totally agree.
Many people will stop playing or at least playing like 10% of what they used to.
It's not fair to lose what we honestly earned.

nublife01

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

Ringod123 wrote: »

trackdemon5512 wrote: »

So please drop this parity concept.

I mean you clearly do not seem to understand the concept of Parity, parity is not about having the same power as we did before, its about being on an equal footing with others, something I achieved after 2.5K hours of play and something I have had for the past 1K hours of play. That is now being taken away from me until I reach CP1800, which will take another 2K or so hours on top of the 3.5K I already have. No thanks, im out.

@Ringod123

ZOS stated that the statistics show the vast majority of the player base is around CP400-something. For those at the higher end of the spectrum they hover around 1100 to 1300.

CP1800 is a rare beast these days and they've had no competitive advantage against you up to now other than having more experience. When this update goes live that CP1800 means jack if you have better skill. That's how this game has always been. A CP300 can always beat an 810 if they know what they're doing. The same will be when the patch goes live.

I cannot stress enough that before CP810 was a thing there were always players ahead of others/already at the next cap and those working to catch up. You'll just have to play that game again but it really means nothing now. It's not more power for those players but more choices in the form of horizontal gains.

You won't be facing an army of CP1800+, you'll be seeing 1100s and so forth as the max for 99% of encounters. That 1800 will barely ever pop up. And if your competitive advantage up to this point has solely been your CP over others then you and other players need to go back and refine your play styles.

A CP50 can competently finish and flawless VMA but that doesn't mean a CP3600 is on easy street and is guaranteed to complete the content.

If you wish to leave then that's your choice but I always suggest people don't give up on a game as good as this one over perceived slights.

Within the pvp community this is incredibly untrue. If you are a cp 810 player or even a cp 1200 player in higher quality cp pvp gameplay you are getting absolutely squashed by someone at 1400cp. I'm not sure about PVE but in PVP the changes are drastic. And I know a whole lot of people who agree with me upon this who I have pvp'd with.

Edit: Even if you have not experienced this power differential yourself, it is even very apparent in how the cp tree has been organized that if you are not 1400cp or close to it you are going to get squashed by a player of even lesser skill than you that is 1400cp+.

Edit 2: And I completely understand the changes to help the average 400 cp player, but these should not come at such an extremely heavy cost to those players who have put the work in to reach 810cp. Sure if it was only a 200 cp level grind to reach not even max but rather a decent level of cp to become relevant in pvp again I would be completely ok with it. But 500-600 level grind?! That's ridiculous.

Edit 3: Also if you think about it. The average cp 400 player will have to grind literally 1000 cp levels or close to it to be combatable in cp pvp. 1000 levels. These changes aren't really fair to anyone in my opinion. I have played this game since beta. The majority of the time I was not max CP. But I have never once had an issue with that until now and I will probably take and indefinite break from the game because of it because I don't want to spend hours upon hours exp grinding to actually enjoy the game again.

Ishtarknows

tmbrinks wrote: »

So, you want the new player to lose all their time to catch up to you.

Umm why not?

It's not losing time, it's them joining a game as a newbie, just like we all did and questing and gaining experience. Who starts a game, any game and expects to be on par with people who've played for years in a few weeks? Idiots or the entitled.

Sahidom

Ishtarknows wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

So, you want the new player to lose all their time to catch up to you.

Umm why not?

It's not losing time, it's them joining a game as a newbie, just like we all did and questing and gaining experience. Who starts a game, any game and expects to be on par with people who've played for years in a few weeks? Idiots or the entitled.

We live in a country USA where people feel entitled and want what other people have, its the mediocrity of our society, and the younger they are the more this attitude creeps up; where reality is a lot more tougher and there's no free rides. This is what comes to mind when I read posts where they "lost experiece," its not their fault when no one taught them otherwise. It's the truth that nothing is equal unless you exert effort to make it equal by the measure of their own effort.

ZOS may go along with the mediocrity and bump people up but then where does this type of habit feeding end? I probably will get a suspension for posting my view here. Paint it however, ZOS didn't take anything from you that you didn't already earn, in CPs.

Iarao

fierackas wrote: »

kvitko_2012eb17_ESO wrote: »

Fair solution of OUR transition from OLD CP system to NEW CP, is to convert our total XP earned to equal amount of XP (not equal amount CP) on new CP system.

Agreed, this is how it should be done.

the point of cp 2.0 was to "equalize" it some so you werent so far ahead of noobs. so noobs gain xp at an amazing base rate and we who have put in our time are robbed. this is so the gap closes faster and makes the noob happy. at least this is what it seems to me. pls correct me if i dont understand something here.

Iarao

ErMurazor wrote: »

I would be very suprised if they listened to us veterans. They cater for new players and casuals. Thats where the big crownstore buyers are. Money talks

they are trying to increase the number of players by taking from us and giving to them to make the n

Zorgon_The_Revenged wrote: »

How does daily enlightenment change things? I see all these formulas but I don't think I've seen one taking into account daily enlightenment.

did enlightenment change any?

Iarao

Starlock wrote: »

Sju wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Maybe I should try this the next time I get a raise at work... that they owe me back pay at my new rate for all my previously worked hours...

This was the exact analogy I was thinking. Imagine thinking you should get a lump sum bonus of the difference from your old to new rate of pay. "Well sir, I could have made all this $3 difference before, it isn't fair..."

Nah, this is more like paying to gas up your car and then having someone switch out the engine to one that has horrible MPG -and the person who switched your engine out was the same company selling you the gas.

Some players have spent real world money on XP scrolls. Now, suddenly, the value of their purchased has been diminished or outright negated. "Stolen" is perhaps an entirely fair word for that, and I wonder if ZoS is getting into a legal grey area here because they sell progression in their cash shop.

i was thinking of those scrolls a couple of days ago. i have never bought one and maybe only 5 crates way back. but yeah, people paid real money for scrolls to level and i would think the proper term is "stolen". i am sure zos has it all wrapped up that the victim cannot do a thing about the theft, legally. best thing to do now is to never ever ever buy those scrolls. ever. or any other thing in the store that has to do with leveling anything at all.

Iarao

tmbrinks wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

They have more than heard the complaints, and have made adjustments.

No they have only heard half the complaints. The ones that the curve is still to steep.

The scaling one they made WAY worse.

My currently earned 515M Exp that gets me 1200CP on live would give me CP 1917 with the new system.

1200 will now only take 206M Exp.

They actually throw out way more of my earned CP with the new cap. 300M instead of 160M with the 1020 cap.

Took me 4200 hours to get those 515M Exp. So in essence ZOS just threw 2500 hours of my playtime down the drain...

Yeah, I want back all those hours I worked at $4 an hour back in the 90's, they should back pay me for those hours at what today's minimum wage is ($10+ in my state).

Entitlement. Plain and simple. (and I venture I "lose" more than almost all of you with that logic, considering I'm at ~2k CP).

If the entire purpose of you playing was to gain CP... not have fun with friends... not play a story... not accomplish goals in game... etc... then that argument might hold water. But, I'd guess (hopefully) that that is not the truth.

my entire purpose is to gain cp. anything else is gravy.

Iarao

Iarao wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

They have more than heard the complaints, and have made adjustments.

No they have only heard half the complaints. The ones that the curve is still to steep.

The scaling one they made WAY worse.

My currently earned 515M Exp that gets me 1200CP on live would give me CP 1917 with the new system.

1200 will now only take 206M Exp.

They actually throw out way more of my earned CP with the new cap. 300M instead of 160M with the 1020 cap.

Took me 4200 hours to get those 515M Exp. So in essence ZOS just threw 2500 hours of my playtime down the drain...

Yeah, I want back all those hours I worked at $4 an hour back in the 90's, they should back pay me for those hours at what today's minimum wage is ($10+ in my state).

Entitlement. Plain and simple. (and I venture I "lose" more than almost all of you with that logic, considering I'm at ~2k CP).

If the entire purpose of you playing was to gain CP... not have fun with friends... not play a story... not accomplish goals in game... etc... then that argument might hold water. But, I'd guess (hopefully) that that is not the truth.

my entire purpose is to gain cp. anything else is gravy.

correction, my entire purpose is to gain xp. best i can tell, zos took a lot of it.

Iarao

tmbrinks wrote: »

Lamagrokie wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Lamagrokie wrote: »

Ranger209 wrote: »

So I am at 1200 cp, 1210 actually, and it may have taken me 600M XP to get there why should a person who got there at 515M XP get the same amount of CP as me, and why should I get the same amount as someone who took 700M XP to get to 1210. Why ? Because there was a catch up mechanic. That catchup mechanic is now in place based on an 1800CP level. If you give everyone an adjusted amount of CP base on the difference between the new system and the old then those new people have even a greater need of catching up. They have even further to catch up. That shouldn't be the case, as it removes the whole point of the catch up mechanic in the first place.

I agree that new player should have some catch up mechanic, but this mechanic shouldn't impact on vet player as bad as it's, the price is to high, some players will lose hundred of millions XP

But you've "lost" nothing...

Do you go back to the store when an item gets put on sale and demand the difference in price after you've had it and used it for years?

I mean... I should get all my money back I've spent on chapters for this game because I can now buy them with gold in-game and crown trading.

Sounds ridiculous right? right?

Yes, but you simplified all process, it's looks more like "Stock split"(hope u know what does it mean), rather than common trip to the market.

You mean a stock split... as where you had 1 share of stock worth $200 each... now you have 2 shares worth $100 each?

So... you end in the same place?

more like the other way around. you had 2 shares and now you only have 1. there is a name for that but i can't remember what it is. i think reverse split.

Iarao

Ringod123 wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

You earned those XP on the old system. With no guarantee that you would ever be able to use them, or if you got to keep them at all.

Be thankful that they didn't scrap the whole system so everybody was the same, and that you still got to continue to level beyond the "cap" for all those years. As has been pointed out many times, most other games do not allow you to progress past the cap and "bank" extra XP. ESO has let you do that (at a reduced rate) for all those years.

This is an "I'm a veteran player, anybody new should have to do the same grind as me to get to be viable" type of argument.

You earned that XP under different rules, there shouldn't have been any expectation or obligation on the account of ZoS that they would transfer 1:1 under new rules.

So, its greedy that after playing 3K hours to get on a level footing with players on CP PvP, I do not want to have to put in another 2-3K hours just to get back on a level footing with players who have played longer than me. That's greed?
That's also LOWERING vertical progression is it?

The problem isn't new players catching up, its veteran players who had put in thousands of hours to be on par with people who played longer than them now having to put in thousand of hours more just to get their parity back.
How many hours in an MMO is sufficient to be on par with others in PvP? according to ZOS its now somewhere in the 5-10k hours range, that's ridiculous on their part, not greed on ours because we dont want our parity taken away.

And the increased curve is already more than enough to help new players catch up WAY faster than under the current system.

all that cp you would have would scare the noobs away.

Iarao

Elvenheart wrote: »

Lotus781 wrote: »

"This is the way"

ZOS has spoken. 🤣

and there are leveling scrolls to be sold.

remosito

so they did go through with it.

Thanks ZOS. Sent you a eso+ cancel, a new no crown buy policy and no chapter collectors edition pre-order as a show of appreciation..

Might buy chapter months later at 50%+ off if you manage to fix that green tree by then..