The lore most of all. Intriguing, nuanced and not a carbon copy of a real life culture. Everything about their land is alien and interesting. I love TES lore as a whole but man, Dunmer really scratch that itch in me.

I like pretty much all the races in TES. Some I like more than others and dunmer are on the "more" half, because they didn't copy some other typical elf, but instead made them very unique and interesting. How many elves can you think of that wear bone and chitin, ride giant bugs, live in and among giant mushrooms, and don't get me started on the history, culture and politics. They are as interesting as they have a tendency to be awful people.

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

I like dunmer, but I like argonians more. Does that even out your wary?

Finding something interesting from a lore/storytelling perspective doesn't mean you approve of things from it in real life.

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

Not exactly either way. There's a rot in Dunmer society that goes right to the very heart of their identity. Their society is built on a lie, compounded by more lies and half-truths, most obviously seen in their xenophobia. But they're probably the most charitable of Tamriel's societies, they've overcome adversity and religious persecution, and while they might appear to be among Tamriel's most conservative societies, they understand better than most that adaption is necessary tor survival and prosperity.

There will always be those who appreciate the Dunmer because they relate to the corruption at their heart. But I think there are more of us who see this corruption and appreciate it for its complexity, the essential paradox of who they are that makes the Dunmer fascinating.

I enjoy them because TES 3 Morrowind is the first time that Bethesda really went all-in on handcrafting an exotic location with in depth lore. The Dunmer are deeply flawed as people, but the depth of knowledge we as players have about their history and culture makes them very easy to roleplay.

1. For example: TES 3 is extremely factional, which means that player characters have a ready place to fit in with some factions and clear antagonists in other factions. If I want to play a warrior, House Redoran is a natural fit. A cleric? House Indoril. A mage? Well, perhaps I'll fit in the cutthroat competition of House Telvanni. Or if I want to be an outsider to the prevalent House culture, there's the Legion, the Mages Guild, the Twin Lamps, or the Ashlanders. My factions determine my allies and my enemies, which creates easy conflicts for storytelling.

Its very easy to fit any character I want to make into Dunmer society. Then, the forces at work driving those factions into conflict help drive the conflicts in my stories.

ESO example: the Arano family, whom my main character Varanis Arano takes her surname, are members of House Redoran. If Varanis is also a Redoran, her rank in the House creates problems with ESO NPCs like Grandmaster Tanval Indoril, Veya, Archmaster Gothren, and other Dunmer. That's a rich source for story conflicts as I roleplay.


2. Another, often overlooked, element is that Dunmer characters don't have to be jerks. I don't want to hide, minimize, or heaven forbid, justify that huge streak of xenophobia at the core of Dunmer culture nor their henious practice of slavery. Those do feature in a lot of Dunmer roleplay because, well, they're a big part of Dunmer culture.

But one of my favorite characters from TES III is Ilmeni Dren. Her father is the Imperial Duke of Vvardenfell, and head of House Hlaalu. Lots of slaves and plantations in house Hlaalu. Her Uncle is the head of the very racist Camonna Tong, with a big plantation full of slaves. Ilmeni? She's an abolitionist. She works with the Twin Lamps to free slaves and runs a school for freedman in Vivec. She and characters like Ulran Releth from ESO are great reminders that not all Dunmer are awful people. More importantly, they are a great assurance that if you want to roleplay Dunmer, you don't have to roleplay a jerk. Sneering "n'wah" at outlanders is certainly one way to roleplay a Dunmer; its not the only way.

Caveat to the above: I do think there's a time and a place for roleplaying jerk Dunmer. It's with other consenting roleplayers. Much like roleplaying evil characters in D&D, it does require a lot of "out of character" care and respect for the real people you are roleplaying with, to make sure that you don't cross the line from roleplaying a jerk to being a jerk. (Unfortunately, most players who are "roleplaying" jerk Dunmer in zone chat are, ah, not doing it from a place of respect for others. Usually quite the opposite.)


I like roleplaying Dunmer.
TES III presented a well-realized vision of a foreign, fantasy culture with in-depth lore, history, and factions that fits into the wider scope of Tamriel in a way that gives a very unique view of events. Its an interesting viewpoint that's easy to adapt to fit whatever type of character I want to roleplay. They make for complex characters living in a very factional and, frankly, pretty messed up society by modern standards. There's a lot of conflicts in their lives and conflict makes for interesting stories.

But seriously, remember Ilmeni Dren the abolitionist. If you like Dunmer, but you don't want to roleplay a jerk, you don't have to.

Well, Dunmer are the best looking race out of those that have good passives. They certainly look nicer than Altmer or Orc and I'm caring too much about min maxing to play a Redguard or Bosmer mage.

They are fun at parties.

I voted other. Always other.

Seriously I always like them since the Arena days. I don't recall any lore about slavery back then, so that never came into consideration.

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

This I don't understand. I am not saying you are wrong. Maybe you are thinking that Dunmer have slavery now in the present.

We can say that for any nation on earth is evil. Some super power countries had slavery. Almost all countries on earth killed many civilians during war. There is almost no innocent races on earth who have not did some atrocity in the past.

So how come you are OK with your country? I am sure they have done something horrible in the past. Just like the Dunmer, just because they did slavery, they don't do it now. If they do do it now, then it's like countries of today, who have slavery. That would be the criminals who do it.

So just because there was slavery in the past for the Dunmer, it doesn't mean the current Dunmer are evil and or bad because of it. If a Dunmer is doing slavery in the present, then just like todays super power countries who are "good" have slavery as well. They are called criminals as I said and doesn't mean the race is evil because of it.

So why would you be wary of it? After all Dunmer evolved just like us humans.

Again, not saying you are wrong, just trying to understand and see it through your eyes.

Dark elf was one of the races I'd never played. I did most everything in Oblivion as an Argonian and then branched out a bit in Skyrim with Breton and Nord, but never elves. They're such a fantasy staple that I decided I wanted to try something different and actually play one, for once. Bosmer don't interest me much, so it was down to the dark elves or high elves and I don't care for the appearance of Altmer's eyes in ESO.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

I guess this is pretty much the reason why I kinda don't like them. Other parts of their lore are cool. Dunmeri great houses, each having their own "thing" (Telvanni mages, Redoran warriors, Hlaalu rouges / assassins etc.). Tribunal is also nice part of Dark Elves lore.

But, what ruins them for me is their "slavery" culture. How they treat others (lore wise). One can even think that they are worse than Molag Bal himself ...

So overall, Dark Elves could be pretty nice, but the "slavery" part kinda places a big "nope" for me.

This view honestly interests me.

I mean, slavery was banned with the formation of the pact. The only Great House that didn’t sign up to this was House Telvanni. So the majority of Dunmer don’t engage in slavery, but the minority that do make all of them a big nope?

Are you misanthropic for similar reasons?

Slavery is not a unique characteristic of dunmer culture. The majority of elven cultures had streaks of slave keeping and even some human subcultures and individuals engage in it.
Vampires are slavers. Necromancy is slavery. Subjuggating a conjured daedra makes you a slaver. Conquering other nations to make them part of your Empire is softcore slavery.
No race is really free of this problem.

It's not even a universal practice within Dunmer society. Out of the 5 Great Houses only like 2 actively engages in slavery, and even then it's only really House Dres, Telvanni are just suffering from (arguably warranted) superiority complex and think themselves above of menial tasks and problems.

Dunmers have truly received the long stick when it comes to lore quality and had a writing team that noticeably tried to move away from the classic DnD style dark elves. Most other races lean too heavily into well known tropes and irl cultures, even if they have cool and weird lore bits, like the Lunar Lattice or the Green Pact or the Hist.