Why do you like dark elves?

coop500

So uh, weird poll I guess, but I am curious... Dark elves seem to be such a popular race and I am curious as to why?

Michae

Their lore

The lore most of all. Intriguing, nuanced and not a carbon copy of a real life culture. Everything about their land is alien and interesting. I love TES lore as a whole but man, Dunmer really scratch that itch in me.

coop500

Other

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Their lore

I like pretty much all the races in TES. Some I like more than others and dunmer are on the "more" half, because they didn't copy some other typical elf, but instead made them very unique and interesting. How many elves can you think of that wear bone and chitin, ride giant bugs, live in and among giant mushrooms, and don't get me started on the history, culture and politics. They are as interesting as they have a tendency to be awful people.

Mindcr0w

Other

I don't.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Their lore

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

I like dunmer, but I like argonians more. Does that even out your wary?

Finding something interesting from a lore/storytelling perspective doesn't mean you approve of things from it in real life.

zvavi

Other

I don't like slavers.

MasterSpatula

Their lore

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

Not exactly either way. There's a rot in Dunmer society that goes right to the very heart of their identity. Their society is built on a lie, compounded by more lies and half-truths, most obviously seen in their xenophobia. But they're probably the most charitable of Tamriel's societies, they've overcome adversity and religious persecution, and while they might appear to be among Tamriel's most conservative societies, they understand better than most that adaption is necessary tor survival and prosperity.

There will always be those who appreciate the Dunmer because they relate to the corruption at their heart. But I think there are more of us who see this corruption and appreciate it for its complexity, the essential paradox of who they are that makes the Dunmer fascinating.

Thechuckage

Other

The sarcasm, plain and simple.

Mojmir

Their appearence

Looks

Varana

Their lore

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

I'm kind of specialising in Roman Antiquity, professionally. The Romans had slaves, and still they're a fascinating society that contributed a lot to human civilisation. Slavery is a constant of human societies - including today, though a lot less so (fortunately). You can find a culture interesting, even like it, even though they had a dark side. Most civilisations have that. The Elder Scrolls is a role playing game. You play a role - i.e. someone else than yourself.

That said, the game TES3: Morrowind is basically the foundation of that whole Dark Elf allure. Never before in TES and never again has a culture been shown in similar depth and originality. Dark Elves in TES are not a copy of a real-world model (like the Nords who are, for the most part, cliché Saga Vikings), and are, in fact, very far from any culture on earth.

Thousand-year old wizards residing in mushroom towers, overlooking lava pools while an ash storm is raging, clad in chitin armour and dining on jelly made from giant insects before levitating to their study where they will conjure a dremora and explore the secrets of even more alien worlds.

Reed huts in a foggy village where red-eyed, ashen-skinned farmers grow salt rice in the damp swamps and tend to their insectoid queen who provides them with giant eggs, while fighting off predators that have either too many or too few legs, bowing their heads when passing by the manor of their lord, built from mouldy stone and with small, dark-green windows.

A priest, firm in her belief in a Living God (whom she has seen in the flesh, a few weeks ago in their annual parade), bowing to the sternly masked keepers of the peace of a militant church, a moon motionless in the sky as a constant reminder of her God's manifest power, while she is caring for the downtrodden who flock to the city in the hope of a better life, and communes with the spirits of her ancestors.

And yes, the noble lady who whips her slaves till they bleed, and afterwards leaves her home made from the shell of a giant crab to meet with shady figures in an abandoned ruin - dark, bloody red stone with crooked angles and alien protrusions - to discuss the assassination of a political rival's children because he embarrassed her in the council of their house.

The barefoot ashlander driving his herd of giant floating jellyfish, bright-blue and green and deadly poisonous when angered, through a barren wasteland of molten rock and sulfurous pools and dead trees, looking out for rogue atronachs and mindless, deformed corprus zombies and the high-pitched screams of the flying menace, passing by the technological marvels of a brass ruin where steam and souls still turn and screak.

And so much more.
Dunmer culture and lore, as shown in Morrowind, was so spectacularly and gloriously unique - with all its weirdness and flaws and nasty sides and hidden beauty - that this game still today, twenty years later, makes the Dunmer the most interesting of all of Tamriel's cultures.
It is a harsh and brutal culture. I would very much not want to live in Morrowind. But its creation is such an awesome achievement and the main reason why I love the Elder Scrolls.

VaranisArano

I enjoy them because TES 3 Morrowind is the first time that Bethesda really went all-in on handcrafting an exotic location with in depth lore. The Dunmer are deeply flawed as people, but the depth of knowledge we as players have about their history and culture makes them very easy to roleplay.

1. For example: TES 3 is extremely factional, which means that player characters have a ready place to fit in with some factions and clear antagonists in other factions. If I want to play a warrior, House Redoran is a natural fit. A cleric? House Indoril. A mage? Well, perhaps I'll fit in the cutthroat competition of House Telvanni. Or if I want to be an outsider to the prevalent House culture, there's the Legion, the Mages Guild, the Twin Lamps, or the Ashlanders. My factions determine my allies and my enemies, which creates easy conflicts for storytelling.

Its very easy to fit any character I want to make into Dunmer society. Then, the forces at work driving those factions into conflict help drive the conflicts in my stories.

ESO example: the Arano family, whom my main character Varanis Arano takes her surname, are members of House Redoran. If Varanis is also a Redoran, her rank in the House creates problems with ESO NPCs like Grandmaster Tanval Indoril, Veya, Archmaster Gothren, and other Dunmer. That's a rich source for story conflicts as I roleplay.


2. Another, often overlooked, element is that Dunmer characters don't have to be jerks. I don't want to hide, minimize, or heaven forbid, justify that huge streak of xenophobia at the core of Dunmer culture nor their henious practice of slavery. Those do feature in a lot of Dunmer roleplay because, well, they're a big part of Dunmer culture.

But one of my favorite characters from TES III is Ilmeni Dren. Her father is the Imperial Duke of Vvardenfell, and head of House Hlaalu. Lots of slaves and plantations in house Hlaalu. Her Uncle is the head of the very racist Camonna Tong, with a big plantation full of slaves. Ilmeni? She's an abolitionist. She works with the Twin Lamps to free slaves and runs a school for freedman in Vivec. She and characters like Ulran Releth from ESO are great reminders that not all Dunmer are awful people. More importantly, they are a great assurance that if you want to roleplay Dunmer, you don't have to roleplay a jerk. Sneering "n'wah" at outlanders is certainly one way to roleplay a Dunmer; its not the only way.

Caveat to the above: I do think there's a time and a place for roleplaying jerk Dunmer. It's with other consenting roleplayers. Much like roleplaying evil characters in D&D, it does require a lot of "out of character" care and respect for the real people you are roleplaying with, to make sure that you don't cross the line from roleplaying a jerk to being a jerk. (Unfortunately, most players who are "roleplaying" jerk Dunmer in zone chat are, ah, not doing it from a place of respect for others. Usually quite the opposite.)


I like roleplaying Dunmer.
TES III presented a well-realized vision of a foreign, fantasy culture with in-depth lore, history, and factions that fits into the wider scope of Tamriel in a way that gives a very unique view of events. Its an interesting viewpoint that's easy to adapt to fit whatever type of character I want to roleplay. They make for complex characters living in a very factional and, frankly, pretty messed up society by modern standards. There's a lot of conflicts in their lives and conflict makes for interesting stories.

But seriously, remember Ilmeni Dren the abolitionist. If you like Dunmer, but you don't want to roleplay a jerk, you don't have to.

rpa

Other

Bit of fireproofnes makes swimming in lava more refreshing.

Nairinhe

A mixture of the above

Many years ago, when I started playing TES III picked a Dunmer for racials, looks and because it made sense. And it sort of clicked, and so hard, that I'm playing Dunmers ever since and ESO is the first game where I have characters of other races. But my main is still a Dunmer.

Iluvrien

Their lore

@Varana and @VaranisArano have put it so beautifully that there isn't much I could add.

The Dunmer are such a varied people, from angel to demon and everything in between, that it is difficult to not find at least a few of them that pique my interest. It has been that way since TESIII. And the fact that this variety is embodied in so many unique ideas (rather than drawing directly on a single real world culture) is glorious to me.

The "outlander" thing used to tweak my nose a bit until I actually experienced something like it in my own life.

Between 2014 and 2019 I had the great privilege of living and working in a country, and a continent, 5000 miles away from the one I was born and raised in. I will not name the place because the point isn't about real-world politics but a cultural concept. In this place, my colleagues and I were referred to with one umbrella term "foreigner". It took me a while to understand it, but it was never intended to exclude, but to explain. It mostly said that these people might need a little more support, and a bit more latitude and understanding as we were not raised with the same cultural practices and it might take some of us a while to get to grips with them. Interesting, over the years, I heard it used less and less often as I adapted.

Obviously such things can also be used as insults, as it was to me a few times, but I choose to think that if we had been a part of that world for longer, the names would also have changed.

As the other posters pointed out, the culture is far but perfect, but it is definitely interesting, and not all Dunmer are jerks. All 8 of mine, for example, are generally pretty nice people*.


[* With the possible exception of Athrad Sarandus, he gets really grumpy if he can't get a mazte at the end of the day]

Faiza

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

It is not wrong for you to be wary. People flock to what they identify with and racism and extreme xenophobia are too prolific in the real world right now to be so naive as to think otherwise.

Larcomar

Their racial abilities

Kind of intrigued by all the answers here. I'd have thought the answer is simple - it's a hedge. They may not be BIS as either stam or mag, but they're the only race that's good as both. Its easy to swap or, if you're creating a toon and going to figure out what to do with them once you've completed Zos' annoying 60-120 day horse mini game, decide later. Plus ofc, if you PVP, they're EP. And everyone knows red is best....

lolo_01b16_ESO

A mixture of the above

Well, Dunmer are the best looking race out of those that have good passives. They certainly look nicer than Altmer or Orc and I'm caring too much about min maxing to play a Redguard or Bosmer mage.

Deep_01

A mixture of the above

All of the above and more.

kargen27

Other

They are fun at parties.

Tommy_The_Gun

Other

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

I guess this is pretty much the reason why I kinda don't like them. Other parts of their lore are cool. Dunmeri great houses, each having their own "thing" (Telvanni mages, Redoran warriors, Hlaalu rouges / assassins etc.). Tribunal is also nice part of Dark Elves lore.

But, what ruins them for me is their "slavery" culture. How they treat others (lore wise). One can even think that they are worse than Molag Bal himself ...

So overall, Dark Elves could be pretty nice, but the "slavery" part kinda places a big "nope" for me.

Davor

Other

I voted other. Always other.

Seriously I always like them since the Arena days. I don't recall any lore about slavery back then, so that never came into consideration.

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

This I don't understand. I am not saying you are wrong. Maybe you are thinking that Dunmer have slavery now in the present.

We can say that for any nation on earth is evil. Some super power countries had slavery. Almost all countries on earth killed many civilians during war. There is almost no innocent races on earth who have not did some atrocity in the past.

So how come you are OK with your country? I am sure they have done something horrible in the past. Just like the Dunmer, just because they did slavery, they don't do it now. If they do do it now, then it's like countries of today, who have slavery. That would be the criminals who do it.

So just because there was slavery in the past for the Dunmer, it doesn't mean the current Dunmer are evil and or bad because of it. If a Dunmer is doing slavery in the present, then just like todays super power countries who are "good" have slavery as well. They are called criminals as I said and doesn't mean the race is evil because of it.

So why would you be wary of it? After all Dunmer evolved just like us humans.

Again, not saying you are wrong, just trying to understand and see it through your eyes.

Ryuvain

Other

Would not mind them if they didn't kill their chances with enslaving my favorite races.

Nightowl_74

Other

Dark elf was one of the races I'd never played. I did most everything in Oblivion as an Argonian and then branched out a bit in Skyrim with Breton and Nord, but never elves. They're such a fantasy staple that I decided I wanted to try something different and actually play one, for once. Bosmer don't interest me much, so it was down to the dark elves or high elves and I don't care for the appearance of Altmer's eyes in ESO.

Sturmfaenger

A mixture of the above

Dunmer are never boring - their rich culture and history has many facets, good ones and bad ones. And they are not stereotypical. Playing Elder Scrolls III Morrowind catapults you right into their culture on Vvardenfell - and made if for me the most wonderful exploration trip into a game I've ever had, so count nostalgia, too. No carbon copy of some european middle ages stereotypes here. Very refreshing. TBH neither TESIV not TESV could compete here.

Iluvrien

Their lore

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

I guess this is pretty much the reason why I kinda don't like them. Other parts of their lore are cool. Dunmeri great houses, each having their own "thing" (Telvanni mages, Redoran warriors, Hlaalu rouges / assassins etc.). Tribunal is also nice part of Dark Elves lore.

But, what ruins them for me is their "slavery" culture. How they treat others (lore wise). One can even think that they are worse than Molag Bal himself ...

So overall, Dark Elves could be pretty nice, but the "slavery" part kinda places a big "nope" for me.

This view honestly interests me.

I mean, slavery was banned with the formation of the pact. The only Great House that didn’t sign up to this was House Telvanni. So the majority of Dunmer don’t engage in slavery, but the minority that do make all of them a big nope?

Are you misanthropic for similar reasons?

paulsimonps

A mixture of the above

Um actually its Dunmers you n'wah

Banana

Other

I like Bretons

Vlad9425

You’re assuming I like Dark Elves...

phantasmalD

Their lore

Slavery is not a unique characteristic of dunmer culture. The majority of elven cultures had streaks of slave keeping and even some human subcultures and individuals engage in it.
Vampires are slavers. Necromancy is slavery. Subjuggating a conjured daedra makes you a slaver. Conquering other nations to make them part of your Empire is softcore slavery.
No race is really free of this problem.

It's not even a universal practice within Dunmer society. Out of the 5 Great Houses only like 2 actively engages in slavery, and even then it's only really House Dres, Telvanni are just suffering from (arguably warranted) superiority complex and think themselves above of menial tasks and problems.

Dunmers have truly received the long stick when it comes to lore quality and had a writing team that noticeably tried to move away from the classic DnD style dark elves. Most other races lean too heavily into well known tropes and irl cultures, even if they have cool and weird lore bits, like the Lunar Lattice or the Green Pact or the Hist.

Stratloc

A mixture of the above

coop500 wrote: »

Is it wrong of me to kinda be.... wary? Of people who are into Dunmer lore? I mean the race is very into racism and slavery and stuff... Is that why you guys like them?

Is it OK to like the lore around Mannimarco or any other villain? I mean, Mannimarco is very in to killing and stuff. Is that why you like him?

Come on, that's a stretch.