Is vampire trash currently?

Glurin · January 2021

Trash? No, I don't believe so. It's got some issues here and there, sure, but it's not trash.

Starlight_Whisper · January 2021

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Kinda trash, yes. You can have fun with it in PvP and if you don't like combat, the invisibility sprint is a blessing. There is one meme build out there that goes around the healing restriction by you being the group's healer and healing through your own Simmering Frenzy, allowing you to easily reach 9000 spell damage, heal the group for minimum effort and deal crazy damage at the cost you instantly dying to fire sneezes from nonboss NPCs.

Other than that, vampire is currently just a burden.

What about pve? Heard of anything there that is current?

VampireLordLover99 · January 2021

Starlight_Whisper wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Kinda trash, yes. You can have fun with it in PvP and if you don't like combat, the invisibility sprint is a blessing. There is one meme build out there that goes around the healing restriction by you being the group's healer and healing through your own Simmering Frenzy, allowing you to easily reach 9000 spell damage, heal the group for minimum effort and deal crazy damage at the cost you instantly dying to fire sneezes from nonboss NPCs.

Other than that, vampire is currently just a burden.

What about pve? Heard of anything there that is current?

Part of their post is discussing about vampire's role in PvE.

Mostly everything also discussed on this thread regarding PvE is up to date.

Eedat · January 2021

Starlock wrote: »

Djennku wrote: »

Vampire is great. You just have to build around it. My main is always stage 4 and I have no issues with sustain or dying too much from fire, etc. There are also some really fun setups you can make using the new vampire skills.

Hell, my vampire can't even regenerate resources with heavy attacks (uses stamina weapons as a magicka character) and I make it work. In fact, having an attack that uses his health pool helped with his sustain because I could use that while his magicka regenerated. It actually got easier to solo certain things with the revised vampire with the changes. But yes, you do have to build around it to some degree. Which isn't hard, but it requires more creativity than some folks want to exercise I guess?

I mean I guess you can clear content while crippling yourself but why on earth would you?

VampireLordLover99 · January 2021

Eedat wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Djennku wrote: »

Vampire is great. You just have to build around it. My main is always stage 4 and I have no issues with sustain or dying too much from fire, etc. There are also some really fun setups you can make using the new vampire skills.

Hell, my vampire can't even regenerate resources with heavy attacks (uses stamina weapons as a magicka character) and I make it work. In fact, having an attack that uses his health pool helped with his sustain because I could use that while his magicka regenerated. It actually got easier to solo certain things with the revised vampire with the changes. But yes, you do have to build around it to some degree. Which isn't hard, but it requires more creativity than some folks want to exercise I guess?

I mean I guess you can clear content while crippling yourself but why on earth would you?

Jumping on here because I don't wanna scroll to find the original post.

No, @Starlock, it isn't a creativity thing. And you're using stam weapons as a magicka character. In combination with vampire. That should be enough to show your naivety of this topic. Which isn't a bad thing if you do super casual content, just pointing it out.

Unless you're SOMEHOW magically doing things outside of Overland or maybe low tier normal dungeons, you do not "make it work" in any other portion of the game.

No offense or anything, play like you want, but I'm sorry. I'm not gonna be told that I'm not being creative enough with an objectively quite uncreative and badly designed line by someone who uses stam weapons on a magicka character as a vampire whilst proclaiming "I make it work, but all of these people can't exercise their creativity!!"

Chances are if around 80% or so of people on this thread think there's an issue with vampire one way or another, then there might be an issue. And let me tell you, it isn't because we aren't creative. @Sephyr and @Vevvev can confirm that.

Also chances are if the line gets changed in a positive way you will largely be unaffected. Have you considered that? If as a casual player you enjoy your fun little set up, will you not enjoy it just as much if not more if the line is made even more creative and viable for everyone?

I just see no reason to vouch for the line being good if you already enjoy it. Especially when being so ignorant to why the majority of people hate the line in the same statement.

Grandchamp1989 · January 2021

Can you block while healing with Vampiric Drain? Because that woud offer a much needed health based heal for certain Tank classes.

If you can't... Nevermind.

N00BxV1 · January 2021

Trash > Vampire

Josira · January 2021

N00BxV1 wrote: »

Trash > Vampire

you have an extremely valid point there!
Calling the current Iteration of Vampire 'Trash' is an insult to Trash!

N00BxV1 · January 2021

Grandchamp1989 wrote: »

Can you block while healing with Vampiric Drain? Because that woud offer a much needed health based heal for certain Tank classes.

If you can't... Nevermind.

Drain is a channel ability. You can't block while channeling... I tried it. Let me save you the cost of respec and just say it's poop.

briano42 · January 2021

I voted yes. I run a dark elf vamp mag plar for solo PVE. I originally became a vamp for the ‘fun’ Rolf it. But as I’m running tougher dungeons I become more conscious of the cost/ benefit of every choice.
I love the hypnosis skill. It’s a regular part of my rotation against trash mobs. But that comes with at least a +3% cost of all other abilities and -10% health recovery. I try to use arterial burst as a good value for damage per magika.
But big picture vampirism costs skill points, costs health recovery and regular skill cost, and the benefits are minimal. I’m very close to curing myself.

Ryuvain · January 2021

It has pvp use for sure. But if you just want to dps parse a dummy in pve, idk. That dps pushing never interested me.

Sephyr · January 2021

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Djennku wrote: »

Vampire is great. You just have to build around it. My main is always stage 4 and I have no issues with sustain or dying too much from fire, etc. There are also some really fun setups you can make using the new vampire skills.

Hell, my vampire can't even regenerate resources with heavy attacks (uses stamina weapons as a magicka character) and I make it work. In fact, having an attack that uses his health pool helped with his sustain because I could use that while his magicka regenerated. It actually got easier to solo certain things with the revised vampire with the changes. But yes, you do have to build around it to some degree. Which isn't hard, but it requires more creativity than some folks want to exercise I guess?

I mean I guess you can clear content while crippling yourself but why on earth would you?

Jumping on here because I don't wanna scroll to find the original post.

No, @Starlock, it isn't a creativity thing. And you're using stam weapons as a magicka character. In combination with vampire. That should be enough to show your naivety of this topic. Which isn't a bad thing if you do super casual content, just pointing it out.

Unless you're SOMEHOW magically doing things outside of Overland or maybe low tier normal dungeons, you do not "make it work" in any other portion of the game.

No offense or anything, play like you want, but I'm sorry. I'm not gonna be told that I'm not being creative enough with an objectively quite uncreative and badly designed line by someone who uses stam weapons on a magicka character as a vampire whilst proclaiming "I make it work, but all of these people can't exercise their creativity!!"

Chances are if around 80% or so of people on this thread think there's an issue with vampire one way or another, then there might be an issue. And let me tell you, it isn't because we aren't creative. @Sephyr and @Vevvev can confirm that.

Also chances are if the line gets changed in a positive way you will largely be unaffected. Have you considered that? If as a casual player you enjoy your fun little set up, will you not enjoy it just as much if not more if the line is made even more creative and viable for everyone?

I just see no reason to vouch for the line being good if you already enjoy it. Especially when being so ignorant to why the majority of people hate the line in the same statement.

I think the problem with statements that claim that we 'lack the creativity' tends to go along the lines of their own perceived playstyles - and just like above, access to the 1% of gear loadouts and group stability.

That being said there's nothing creative using 'stamina weapons', which is ambiguous at best (swords or actual weapon/raid sets that are stamina based, we just don't know). I can see some niche PvP stuff with it, but those builds are solidly Stamina that seem to only function in CP campaigns. I don't seem to recall the person you're @ing going through Vampire threads and actually being 'creative', meanwhile a lot of us including myself were posting set lists for various vampire vibes TRYING to give Vampire it's much needed identity that it still lacks, even mechanically speaking when you equip those sets AND the Ring of the Pale Order.

TLDR; If equipping 'stamina weapons' is me lacking creativity, then it further raises the issue that the line itself doesn't know what it wants to be. Equipping a 'stamina weapon' doesn't make you a hunting, bloodthirsty machine.

Starlock · January 2021

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Jumping on here because I don't wanna scroll to find the original post.

No, @Starlock, it isn't a creativity thing. And you're using stam weapons as a magicka character. In combination with vampire. That should be enough to show your naivety of this topic. Which isn't a bad thing if you do super casual content, just pointing it out.

Unless you're SOMEHOW magically doing things outside of Overland or maybe low tier normal dungeons, you do not "make it work" in any other portion of the game.

I guess I'm magical then!

I suppose some skill is also involved, but I prefer to frame it around creativity (which is also a skill in fairness). Regardless, some folks seem to make playing this game way more complicated than it is. Experiment or try something unconventional to see if it works on an individual level then let the successes and failures unfold as they will. Certain things about what is and isn't possible will surprise you, but you won't ever discover that if you go around assuming players like me are "naive" because they can make things work that you can't.

PaddyVu · January 2021

Vampire is absolutely awesome, without vamp, i cant solo vet hard mode dlc dungeon, 13 vet dlc dungeon has been soloed because i'm vamp stage 4 magDK, it's so great ! Excellent skill !

Grandchamp1989 · January 2021

PaddyVu wrote: »

Vampire is absolutely awesome, without vamp, i cant solo vet hard mode dlc dungeon, 13 vet dlc dungeon has been soloed because i'm vamp stage 4 magDK, it's so great ! Excellent skill !

But isn't that more to do with Mist Form being awesome not the overall skillset?

Vaoh · January 2021

I put “Other”. It’s only good for very niche builds. Plus the Ring of the Pale Order is a massive carry.

You can use Blood for Blood as a powerful spammable with a Health cost that’s less than the heal. Also you get Simmering Frenzy, which can be toggled for 10-15 seconds Stage 1, and add about 3-5 seconds more for each Stage especially if your Ult is ticking (for the extra heal).

So basically, you get a massive sustain and damage boost for being a Vamp if you play that way in PvE except for some trials. I feel that on my Magicka Warden I have to play this way or my damage, sustain, and healing are DRASTICALLY worse.

Vevvev · January 2021

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Eedat wrote: »

Starlock wrote: »

Djennku wrote: »

Vampire is great. You just have to build around it. My main is always stage 4 and I have no issues with sustain or dying too much from fire, etc. There are also some really fun setups you can make using the new vampire skills.

Hell, my vampire can't even regenerate resources with heavy attacks (uses stamina weapons as a magicka character) and I make it work. In fact, having an attack that uses his health pool helped with his sustain because I could use that while his magicka regenerated. It actually got easier to solo certain things with the revised vampire with the changes. But yes, you do have to build around it to some degree. Which isn't hard, but it requires more creativity than some folks want to exercise I guess?

I mean I guess you can clear content while crippling yourself but why on earth would you?

Jumping on here because I don't wanna scroll to find the original post.

No, Starlock, it isn't a creativity thing. And you're using stam weapons as a magicka character. In combination with vampire. That should be enough to show your naivety of this topic. Which isn't a bad thing if you do super casual content, just pointing it out.

Unless you're SOMEHOW magically doing things outside of Overland or maybe low tier normal dungeons, you do not "make it work" in any other portion of the game.

No offense or anything, play like you want, but I'm sorry. I'm not gonna be told that I'm not being creative enough with an objectively quite uncreative and badly designed line by someone who uses stam weapons on a magicka character as a vampire whilst proclaiming "I make it work, but all of these people can't exercise their creativity!!"

Chances are if around 80% or so of people on this thread think there's an issue with vampire one way or another, then there might be an issue. And let me tell you, it isn't because we aren't creative. Sephyr and Vevvev can confirm that.

Also chances are if the line gets changed in a positive way you will largely be unaffected. Have you considered that? If as a casual player you enjoy your fun little set up, will you not enjoy it just as much if not more if the line is made even more creative and viable for everyone?

I just see no reason to vouch for the line being good if you already enjoy it. Especially when being so ignorant to why the majority of people hate the line in the same statement.

Hates being pinged.

I remember when people called me crazy for having a long range magic damage magDK build that used the old Stone Giant, old Structured Entropy, Elemental Weapon, and had sets like War Maiden, Shadowrend, and Spell Strategist. After many changes I was finally forced to play magDK like everyone else and I hated it in the beginning.

Queue the vampire rework entering the picture and me being excited for the vampire playstyle to be made better. I went on the PTS to test it on the second week, and to my disappointment the skill line effectively stole everything from you to be a vampire. Like many others I complained about the +20% increased non-vampire ability cost increase, but now I wish I didn't because truth be told it was actually more worth it than it is now. Back on the PTS before the next patch Blood Frenzy didn't increase in cost, Simmering Frenzy had a cost increase cap, and Sated Fury was an amazing emergency health storage due to it's low cost since alongside the +20% non-vampire cost debuff there was a -40% vampire ability cost buff!!! Exhilarating Drain had a use for entering Scion mode incredibly fast as it cost so little the expedited entering of the form was worth it when stage 4. Now the costs are just rediculous and it takes forever to charge things, but at least the non-vampire stuff isn't so expensive, yay?

Eedat · January 2021

Starlock wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Jumping on here because I don't wanna scroll to find the original post.

No, @Starlock, it isn't a creativity thing. And you're using stam weapons as a magicka character. In combination with vampire. That should be enough to show your naivety of this topic. Which isn't a bad thing if you do super casual content, just pointing it out.

Unless you're SOMEHOW magically doing things outside of Overland or maybe low tier normal dungeons, you do not "make it work" in any other portion of the game.

I guess I'm magical then!

I suppose some skill is also involved, but I prefer to frame it around creativity (which is also a skill in fairness). Regardless, some folks seem to make playing this game way more complicated than it is. Experiment or try something unconventional to see if it works on an individual level then let the successes and failures unfold as they will. Certain things about what is and isn't possible will surprise you, but you won't ever discover that if you go around assuming players like me are "naive" because they can make things work that you can't.

Nobody is questioning "can you technically clear content as a vamp". Yes, you can obviously. The question is are the strengths of being a vamp worth the drawbacks. I do think efficiency should a part of a build though

If you're just playing solo, it really doesn't matter if a build is good or bad as long as you're OK with it though. I wouldn't suggest it as viable to others without some form of testing and numbers though

Nova_J · January 2021

Katahdin wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Katahdin wrote: »

They are no longer must have for literally every role like they used to be.
Its a play style that you can use if you want but is no longer stupid OP
That is how it should be

What's the play style?

Killing yourself for minimal amounts of damage? Being melee without a gap closer? Being entirely magicka damage based despite having skills that drain HP, one of your lowest sources as a magicka light armor character?

It absolutely does not have a unique play style if it's just 'lulz stack dmg win'

Although in this case it's 'lulz try to stack dmg then still lose' because of how weak and underdeveloped the line is.

Before they changed it you needed to be vamp for tank for the regen, for stam and mag DPS for the regen, for healer for the regen. I was literally told that as a STAM dps, I HAD to be a vamp to min max for damage to run in a trial group.

Also there were vamps literally everywhere. 90% of the playerbase ran vamps on their characters for both PVE and PVP they were so OP

You shouldnt have to be vamp or WW to do anything in the game.

.

No...as a matter of fact you didn't. If anyone told you that you HAD to be a vamp to get anything done then they didn't know what they were talking about. The trials group I ran with only had vamps to give other guild members the bite. I myself have a warden tank that to this day has the most vet clears in trials and dungeons alike.

Vamp was never a requirement for anything, it was just a small sustain buff that people enjoyed.

Icaruzs · January 2021

i've been a vampire since 2014, but with the vamp changes i just cured myself.

The thing is that for a magicka toon (which the vampire focus, as WW focus stamina), there's no single skill usefull if you don't use pale order, which puts you with 1 less set on your gear for blood for blood, even with pale order bfb can be dangerous.

All the vamps skills right now are used by pvpers, there's nothing for pver's like Werewolf that can be played in pvp and pve.

Which made me cure myself was the increase of ultimate cost and % flame damage at stage 1, without my character being using any of their skills or passives. Vamp needs to change.

Also zos make a pure vamp build for pve, like WW, reward the player to slot vamp skills with an addional effect in the passives or in ultimate.

@paleorder

Zos could buff drain heal, so people that don't have pale order can heal themself in a decent away, i'm talking about 5k heal every thick. That wouldnt be OP, because you are not light attacking while channeling, also boost that skill damage ffs, it's horrible, ZOS made it for tanks but no tanks uses it, cause you cant drain while blocking.

sarahthes · January 2021

People are using simmering frenzy plus pale order ring in trials, especially on pure parse fights where all they have to do is stay out of red and have the tank not die. Only top tier players are doing this well. Kinda like thrassian all over again.

CoronHR · January 2021

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

CoronHR wrote: »

i think it's not exactly trash, it's just not very useful. i have 2 vamp chars, one mag and one stam, just for variety and just to have a couple of vampires, as i like the idea of playing as a vamp. i don't have any issues with them, it's just that i'm pretty sure that non-vamp equivalents would be all-around better. also, i don't use any of the abilities, even though they really expanded on them. shame that there isn't a way to work those abilities into general play, but they just don't work as well as the other myriad of ability choices.

I'd argue that not being able to fit a single one of the vampire skills into general play miiiight mean the line is pretty trash.

And being pretty sure that your chars would be better if they weren't vampires also fits into it being pretty trash.

lol...well, since you put it that way, yeah i guess you're right. i suppose i didn't want to admit it

Scardan · January 2021

It depends on what you expect from it. If you want to be a vampire and a strong solo build, a vampire is not bad, you can use blood frenzy, his ultimate is kinda OP (and helps well with sustain of blood frenzy as well, it boosts your healing too) and a mist form can be used to make a dot build if you are necro class (because Rapid Rot and Beckoning Armor for pulling mobs into your mist). Here, vampire is really good.

If you expect that a vampire build is stronger than a normal build, then no, a vampire subclass will weaken your class and that makes it bad.So it's hardly for your hardcore trials runs and scoreboards.

Elvenheart · January 2021

Vevvev wrote: »

I've been too stubborn to stop playing it so I found some utility with it, but while the new vampire takes less fire damage overall, and undeath got buffed, the sustain nerf is incredibly painful in comparison. The only things stopping vampire from being good is the non-vampire cost increase as that'll kill your sustain, and if course the stage 4 passive not being strong enough to warrant the -100% health regeneration debuff.

In order to make Vampire work you need the Ring of the Pale Order because vampire on its own costs a lot of health, but takes away all your ability to really gain any health. And Vampiric Drain is one of the worst healing abilities out there, which is a shame because it's vampire's only dedicated healing ability.

I chose Other mainly for the reasons listed in this post - my vampire stamina nightblade will always be a vamp unless they remove the line from the game, and I’ve found a use for a few of the skills as a questing rper, but I know things could be better. I’m considering trying a magicka based vampire to see how that works 🧛‍♂️

Elvenheart · January 2021

I honestly wouldn’t mind if they just took other skills already in the game and simply gave a vampy feel to them for the line, such as a gap closer no better or worse or more special than other gap closers, but make it look like a cloud of bats. Or some type of heal equal to heals in other lines people can get, but with a vampy feel.

KurtAngle2 · January 2021

Aside from Mist Form and Ultimate (with the former being used BETTER by Stage 1 vamps rather than Stage 4), Vamp has no redeeming quality with all of its skills either useless or excessively restrictive to the point of being utterly detrimental to any build

Finedaible · January 2021

I voted other because I am somewhat indifferent, though overall my opinion on vampire leans towards the negative simply because of the reduced build variety this "rework" has wrought. Primarily I despise that the whole vampire rework was hyped to the sky as the next exciting addition to the new update only for it to turn out to be a thinly veiled nerf instead while werewolves finally got the buffs they have been withholding from the mutts for literally years. I mean, this was advertised to be the vampire-centric chapter, and I actually cured lycanthropy on my main stamblade and contracted vampirism in anticipation of the update because I figured there was nothing to lose with how bad werewolves used to be before it. They proved how wrong I was to trust them. Now my stamblade has had his resource recovery nerfed while also receiving a hit to health recovery, more vulnerability to fire damage, and added skill costs for non-vampire skills (the skills which matter). Furthermore, the only class which can alleviate vampire drawbacks the most is Nightblades whereas vamps could potentially complement any class build before this update IF you were willing to deal with the increased damage from fire and fighter's guild abilities. So, I don't know what they wish to accomplish by making vampire a self-contained, roleplay skill-line that is only beneficial to one class. They didn't even add a stamina skills or morphs to the reworked skill-line to help support stamina builds which used vampire before.

Don't even get me started on the recycled animations and lazy, copy-pasta ultimate...

Raideen · January 2021

Starlock wrote: »

VampireLordLover99 wrote: »

Jumping on here because I don't wanna scroll to find the original post.

No, @Starlock, it isn't a creativity thing. And you're using stam weapons as a magicka character. In combination with vampire. That should be enough to show your naivety of this topic. Which isn't a bad thing if you do super casual content, just pointing it out.

Unless you're SOMEHOW magically doing things outside of Overland or maybe low tier normal dungeons, you do not "make it work" in any other portion of the game.

I guess I'm magical then!

I suppose some skill is also involved, but I prefer to frame it around creativity (which is also a skill in fairness). Regardless, some folks seem to make playing this game way more complicated than it is. Experiment or try something unconventional to see if it works on an individual level then let the successes and failures unfold as they will. Certain things about what is and isn't possible will surprise you, but you won't ever discover that if you go around assuming players like me are "naive" because they can make things work that you can't.

I agree with many of your points, but its not easy to "experiment" and not cheap either, unless one does all of this on the PTS. I love to experiment but in game its costly (purchasing gear), spending money on remorphing/skill points, attributes, CP' and extremely time consuming (been farming crimson for 2 weeks and I still have not seen a necklace drop, not just for me, for the entire party).

Gear that comes out of trials, dungeons, or solo arenas are not easy to obtain and can take literally months. So for me, the trial and error excuse does not work. No one should have to leave the live server and use the PTS to play with different set combinations, that is one of the failings in this games design.

geonsocal · January 2021

vamp stage 4 works just fine on my pvp focused mag dk...he uses a bunch of vamp skills...

also have my stamblade at stage 4, only uses the vamp ult, but...I'm stubborn and he's staying a vamp for now...

TheImperfect · January 2021

It's not trash but my character is somewhat squishy, whether it's just because she's in light gear wholly/mostly as a Magicka build or just me I don't know but she gets by in most content but I feel she could be more survivable. I haven't given her the ring of the pale order though yet and that might help. The vampire is fun to play though.