Is vampire trash currently?

Starlight_Whisper

wheresbes

I voted "other" because on paper the cons seem really bad, and the appearance can also be a turn off, but I have yet to try it for myself, so I may change my mind.

Grianasteri

Kinda.

I do not agree with the ultra critical sections of the community who have been highly critical of the vampire changes since even before they went live.

I think Vampirism is in a significantly better place than it was before the changes.

But, have the changes resulted in me being able to main vampirism even remotely? No. On my vampires I am a vampire for the passive stealth benefits, and perhaps for 1 or 2 useful skills. So in this respect, for me, the changes have ultimately not been successful. Remember the only reason most were a vampire before, was for the passive mag regen, with a few niche builds using some of the skills (moist form and ulti were and remain good when used right).

What I wanted was to play as a far more dedicated vampire, which I did try, but it just kinda didnt work, for me at least. For such a theme the only viable options to me were Nightblade and Necromancer. My first attempt was on an existing NB vamp, but I just found I reverted back to using mostly NB and non class skills to get an effective build - so basically no change from before. Same for my Necro vamp, hes a vamp for the passive defense bonuses cos hes a tank. Beyond that Im not even using moist form in the build.

As I say, I still enjoy being a vamp, and the skill tree is way better than it was. But I think Id like to see something more like Werewolf where actually being a vampire was viable.

ps, Stage 4 passive buff really needs to be better than just letting you sprint invisible - which is one of the most fun aspects of vampirism... but ultimately rather pointless in terms of combat in pve or pvp.

Cirantille

I still like it on my gankblade/bombblade characters

But other than that it is nay for me

Cost increase + health recovery too much drawback together

One of them gotta go

Grianasteri

Cirantille wrote: »

I still like it on my gankblade/bombblade characters

But other than that it is nay for me

Cost increase + health recovery too much drawback together

One of them gotta go

Agree, both my gank and bomb blades are vamps, but mainly for the passive stealth bonuses, and as I mentioned before, the rework was kinda meant to stop people just going vamp for the passives.

I do still use bloodfrenzy on my gankblade, and its wondaful for those 1v1 encounters... but often in Cyrodiil thats not viable and there are larger pitched group battles taking place... in those circs using bloodfrenzy puts you at massive risk from being killed simply by anyone else looking at you lol. As a result, the safer option is to simply not use it, you wont always get back into stealth and healed in time.

tsaescishoeshiner

I know vampire has been nerfed in the sense that the passives aren't as universally good for as many builds, but I think that's a good change. I'd prefer it as a unique playstyle (like werewolf)

Blood For Blood (and sometimes Simmering Frenzy) is meta for mag DPS in a lot of content, so it's safe to say it's not trash, even if it could be improved

Gythral

No
Trash would be better than they currently are
(cured 3 & thiiking about curring the last remaining as it's not got a single redeaming feature left)

rpa

Other
Vamp stage 1 passive (no speed penalty on sneak) saves one set bonus on my sneaky char. Other than that, not the faintest idea because I have little interest to figure out how to vamp effectively and build one.

UntilValhalla13

Before the change, it was almost a given to be a vampire in any serious content. The regen alone made it useful.

But we can't have nice things.

Now, it's just for niche pvp builds, and questing rpers.

It's literally a liability in all other content.

renne

Trash. There's too much negative, not enough positive.

Chrysa1is

Rubber Vampire

Djennku

Vampire is great. You just have to build around it. My main is always stage 4 and I have no issues with sustain or dying too much from fire, etc. There are also some really fun setups you can make using the new vampire skills.

Starlight_Whisper

Djennku wrote: »

Vampire is great. You just have to build around it. My main is always stage 4 and I have no issues with sustain or dying too much from fire, etc. There are also some really fun setups you can make using the new vampire skills.

Such as?

Starlight_Whisper

Chrysa1is wrote: »

Rubber Vampire

?

Josira

Art and Animation Wise? Yes
Skills working into each other/Mechanically? Yes
Passives and Skills working into Class mechanics? Yes

If you want to play a Vampire in any TES setting,play a modded one in Oblivion or Oldrim. Not Eso.

Starlock

Djennku wrote: »

Vampire is great. You just have to build around it. My main is always stage 4 and I have no issues with sustain or dying too much from fire, etc. There are also some really fun setups you can make using the new vampire skills.

Hell, my vampire can't even regenerate resources with heavy attacks (uses stamina weapons as a magicka character) and I make it work. In fact, having an attack that uses his health pool helped with his sustain because I could use that while his magicka regenerated. It actually got easier to solo certain things with the revised vampire with the changes. But yes, you do have to build around it to some degree. Which isn't hard, but it requires more creativity than some folks want to exercise I guess?

Vevvev

I've been too stubborn to stop playing it so I found some utility with it, but while the new vampire takes less fire damage overall, and undeath got buffed, the sustain nerf is incredibly painful in comparison. The only things stopping vampire from being good is the non-vampire cost increase as that'll kill your sustain, and if course the stage 4 passive not being strong enough to warrant the -100% health regeneration debuff.

In order to make Vampire work you need the Ring of the Pale Order because vampire on its own costs a lot of health, but takes away all your ability to really gain any health. And Vampiric Drain is one of the worst healing abilities out there, which is a shame because it's vampire's only dedicated healing ability.

Dracane

I believed so for the longest time. Though recently, everyone in pvp seems to be one. Almost everyone turns into clown scions on low health or uses mistform.

So it seems the general audience views it as preferable over being normal. Thus, likely not trash.

Lephrel

Many of the skills are badly designed but I like how the passives synergise with nightblade builds or stealth builds. The 300 wep/spell dmg passive after leaving invis or sneak and the movement speed increase for sneak should stay. I also kind of like the invis sprint feature (but it's buggy and unreliably atm).

My biggest issue with vampirism is the severe drawbacks that come with it. Stage 4 is completely unjustifiable in any setting and even stage 1 severely cripples your character...the penalties need to be toned down massively.

deepseamk20b14_ESO

I don't know about PvE, but I see a lot in PvP. Tons of people using the ult. People using seething. On my NB I'm thinking about going back to vamp and shadowy disguise because they synergize so well. A lot of tangier players going for stage 3 in PvP.

emeraldshado

I haven't tested with it how i want to.

I think the vampire is meant to be stam, as to get the full benefit from the invisible run at stage 4, you need the stam pool to be able to run the distance.

The vampire is really good at reconnaissance in cyrodil for running around invisible and is meant probably to be an assasin to pop in, and takes a long time to pop back out. the most optimal is probably a night blade.

its fun to run invisibly and stun all people in a fight for ~5 seconds when they can't see the stun coming.

The issue with reconnaissance in cyrodil is that while running, you'll find little pockets of ground that drop the character out of run / stealth. run around the group of seigers, count them, relay the info to someone in voice that lets the zone know where its being hit from, how many, run back inside without being seen.

For my sorc vamp, i'm thinking of running stage 3 for reduced damage by up to 30% based on missing health, and running 5 piece of false god to balance out the resource cost. I figure i might try this for a no death run on some vet runs.

The stam set for this stage 3 is from craglorne.

The vampire isn't meant or designed to go toe to toe with a werewolf

I find the vampire skill line isn't enough of a kit to run most of the skills with each other, which also means its not beneficial to run any of the vampire gear sets for +% cost reduction.

that being said, i also feel like these sunspire set and craglorne set arn't justifyable for pvp, as people run inpen and the 3 set piece is wasted.

i also only use mist form to run from guards, as it doesn't last long enough i find to be beneficial in large scale, cyrodil conflicts as it eats through mag pool too quickly.

The drain skill i find isn't even useful at all, so i never use it it just doesn't seem justifiable.

vigor self heal morph with 5 seconds stun probably provides better results with an additional self heal or potion than the 3 second stun and drain. if the drain drained enemy resources, then it would be purely pvp perspective, or a portion of damage and sustain from a dungeon mob, but draining fictitious mag / stam resources from a monster seems a mute point when the damage is so low.

Miszou

I wouldn't say "trash", but I have a hard time keeping vampire skills on my bar. I try to stay at level 3 for the stealth damage buff and damage reduction, but I really don't notice a difference if I slip down to level 1.

The skill cost isn't really a big deal either.

I don't use Blood Frrenzy because micro-managing my health just seems like too much work and takes away from my enjoyment of actually playing. Maybe if you built around that skill it would be better/more interesting etc. but I just don't have the inclination for it.

Ratzkifal

Kinda trash, yes. You can have fun with it in PvP and if you don't like combat, the invisibility sprint is a blessing. There is one meme build out there that goes around the healing restriction by you being the group's healer and healing through your own Simmering Frenzy, allowing you to easily reach 9000 spell damage, heal the group for minimum effort and deal crazy damage at the cost you instantly dying to fire sneezes from nonboss NPCs.

Other than that, vampire is currently just a burden.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

If you are someone that used to just slot it for the passives and maybe use 1 skill like elusive mist, you are going to find the new vampire fairly restrictive and not worth messing with. That said, people that really go all in on vampire can be very powerful. It's definitely all or nothing these days, that's for sure.

I watched mag sorc vamp (dont think that's the most ideal class, but could be wrong), stay in a keep long after it was taken. They were kiting around (and killing) probably 10-15 people. Yes they were most likely some potatoes, but I was impressed at how long the dude lasted.

notyuu

Other than mist form and one morph of the ult vampire has literally nothing going for it

sure it used to have blood frenzy..but zos nerfed it into oblivion before it even made it off the pts
sure it used to have blood for blood...but zos nerfed it into being potato tier instead of addressing the underlying issue with the abiltity.

emeraldshado

I forgot to mention and can't seem to edit my post.

my main is a vampire magika sorc.

while running down stairs in stage 4, the character magically seems to skip steps as the programming doesn't seem to leave the player on the ground which is frustrating to infuriating for stage 4, which seems to me to be soley based upon being invisible. the trailer was cool for the launch of greymoore, but the application seems impracticable due to jumping down half a flight of stairs due to pathing issues.

the vampire could really use a non uninterruptible / dodgable croud control like that of the dragon knight

mesmorize is cool and i like it, but i find it impractical to be surrounded by a large amount of mobs or players and expect to get that stun off in time without dying unless you are explicitly a tank. so this is hard cause i like the aoe nature of the circle stun, but maybe a longer conal would have been better. but i doubt it. maybe an aoe circle that you stand in or moves with you for a duration so if anyone enters it they get stunned.

i do like mesmorizing npcs to get them to talk to me at stage 4. very good flavour choice. though i find a disjoint between the npcs being able to tell that i'm a vmpire at stage 4, and walking apst a guard while existing in stage 4 and not being accosted.

i never use the vampire ultimate. its purley an "oh poop" button for when the healer has failed, or your ( positioning / block ) as a tank has failed.
i would rather it be a pure toggle that lasts a good bit of time like that of the werewolf where you stay in it longer by damaging live enemies ( dead enemies don;t provide active blood to sustain the transformation ) I feel kind of cheated when entering it, i am a 1,000 year old vampire, but I can't master my true form for more than a mere ~5 seconds seems kind of cheap to the experience.

a set that would let you move through the shadows at all times almost being invisible would be really cool, that way you'd be forced to run mage light non crit from stealth or be paranoid that the invis folks are near you and breathing down the back of your neck. you're invisible for 20 seconds, and visible for 3, and then invisible for 20, and so forth.

magika character, running costs mag. ( sorcerer should use their magika pool, or sprinting should provide a little teleport animation as you run because a stam characters get the benefit of blocking, attacking and running cost stam. mag is at the disadvantage of not getting the same distances as stam characters, at least i find. teleport you'll get 3, but the same distance from a charge makes it irrelivant, yet some of the vampire abilities are mag based )

Tommy_The_Gun

Trash ? No... but they definitely have some kind of crisis...

It kinda reminds me how ZOS could not make up their mind and they were changing WW left & right. They kinda knew what they want WW to be, but they did not had a clue how to achieve this.

Same with Vamp. They made a huge overhaul and they kinda know what they want Vamps to be and what "theme" it should have, but they need to tune their skills a bit so it would be usefull and there will be more reasons to use vamps. Currently it is pretty much only to have Mist Form & maybe to have extra dmg if you are a ganker.

^ Also Vamps have a miss-fortune to pull Extremely high DPS right after rebalance (or maybe even during, on PTS) so they were nerfed...

In short: Buff Vampire

StarOfElyon

I made my necromancer a vampire for RP reasons and there is no redeeming quality beyond the aesthetics. It's nothing but a horrible debuff to my character. An unnecessary handicap that I have to overcome. Sad.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Depends on what you use it for and what build. My vampire isn't trash, but I also built the character around it.

frozzzen101

I don't get it how people can even think it's trash skill line. I've used all but one skill and all passives on various play styles from pve dps to pvp healer to pve tank etc. It's good skill line and you have to play around it a bit to cover up for its weaknesses and that's fine.

Honestly advantages it gives at time can be absolutely brutal and I'm okay with downsides to it. DDs with Simmering and proper selfheals with or without BFB can deal absolutely monstrous damage both for mag and stam. It's just extremely polarizing where people that can abuse this will have crazy high dps and people who can't play with it will be kissing the floor.
Undeath might as well be strongest defensive passive in game with giving up to 30% mitigation, and remember that it got buffed directly with Vamp rework so that it scales from 100% health rather than from 50% like it was before, and indirectly with nerf to huge amount of % mitigation sources.

[snip] All skills are usable in their niches and sometimes even outperform in some others.[snip] to figure if you want to use it, how to use it and not slap it on literally every build for one passive. You can tap into potential of vamp skill line at a cost and if built and played properly it can greatly improve your build if you just think about it for a second. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting/Bashing]

VampireLordLover99

The skill line is not viable unless you are a bomber or ganker in PvP. Even if people have found some niche builds that aren't those two it's more than likely being carried by nightblade synergy and best case scenario even if you get it to work then it won't matter because you'd still be better off not being a vampire. Objectively, unless you're a ganker or bomber, you will perform better without vampirsm.

And even then the skill line feels like it was designed around nightblades vs being a unique play style like werewolf.

The play style of "not being helped by groups" doesn't make any sense in lore considering all vampires we fight are in clans and working together practically.

Not to mention sacrificing their own HP heavily goes against vampire lore too. There's a reason none of the NPCs are killing themselves.

On top of all that the skills except mist form and the ultimate are pretty bad. Even mist form could use some minor buffs such as making elusive mist have minor expedition as well so it'll be just a bit faster than sprinting or allow people to sprint while in elusive mist. Next blood mist just needs to have some actual damage scaling to it as well a be a swarm of bats over blood.

As for the ultimate: perfect scion needs changed completely or they need to make it to where if slotted you don't have any of the vampirism weaknesses.

There's so much more that needs to be changed with this class. Including adding in a gap closer of some kind since the last skill line had one and quite frankly not having access to the cool bat swarm gap closer NPCs have is so bad.

They do not even compare to werewolves when it comes to how immersive and cool they are. Many people wanted a transformation based vampire that only had a couple base skills out of form similar to Skyrim.

But they just couldn't give us that I guess.