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• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 15, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – September 16, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
Where is the auction house?
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Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For some reason ZOS thought it was important to limit the amount of people who can sell through a guild trader to 98,500.
There are 197 Guild Traders in game with 500 member slots each.
197x500=98500 Guild Trader player slots available
except that everyone can be in 5 guilds. I am in 5 trade guilds, so I take 5 of those slots, or 4 extra.
If everyone in game who did trading had 5 trade guilds there would only be 19,700 people trading at guild traders. Of course not everyone has 5 guild traders, but many do have 3. Which would then limit the amount of individual players who are using guild traders to 32,833.
I often see it promoted that this game is super healthy, making tons of money and has a player base of about 3 million. Divide that 3 million by 4 for PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, and PS and you have 750,000 players per server type on average. This means that roughly 700,000 people will not be allowed to trade at guild traders.
My question is, why limit the amount of people who can buy and sell through guild traders? Why not have a central auction house so the entire player base has a fair chance of selling stuff.
Makes more sense to me.
I see trade guilds looking for members all the time in zone chat so your argument really doesn't hold water. I would like to see the number of traders increased though. I think they should add another trader in all the locations that have only one trader. That would make it more worth while to visit the out of the way places.
My argument is not an argument, its numbers and numbers are facts...but if the numbers are not adding up, then the numbers are wrong.
I agree that Guild traders are looking for members ALL THE TIME, even the most desired trader kiosks.
So what does that mean? Well that can mean two things.
1. Most people do not care to make money in game (which seems out of place in an MMO) as evidence of 90%+ of the player base not being in a trade guild as of them do not need a guild trader.
2. The population is NO WHERE NEAR what is claimed. Ergo the health of the game is NO WHERE NEAR what is claimed.
Your numbers may well be facts but the facts do not support your previous claim. To your more recent claims.
1. Doesn't matter if all players are not interested in making gold. They have the opportunity if they wish. All it takes is joining a guild and joining a trade guild takes maybe two minutes. Same as running vet trials. Not everybody wants to run vet trials. Those that do will join a guild that runs vet trials. PvP same thing. Trading for a lot of players is their end game activity. With so many trade guilds advertising for members I think it is safe to say those players that want to participate can.
2. Failure to participate in one aspect of the game in no way represents the number of players actively in the game. Saying open membership in trade guilds is a reflection of the population of the game is akin to saying the game is suffering a lack of players because you were queued for thirty minutes on your DPS for Vet Frostvault before finally getting a group.
I never changed my stance or claims...could you please quote me where I changed my claims?
1. I was not making a point that most people do not want to make gold. I was posing two scenarios that are in opposition to each other. Go re-read my posts more thoroughly.
2. I would agree with this, but not when it comes to the only way to make money in game. A player absolutely must be in a trade guild to make money because there is no central auction house. Does that mean that ALL players are in a trade guild that sell items to make gold? Of course not, but on the average most players will need to be in a trade guild to make gold.
I stand by my claims 100%. The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
I have spent a small fortune on this game, I do not want to see it die prematurely for my own selfish sake. The issue I have is that I am not seeing anything being done on a large scale to accommodate a larger player base and nickel and diming the current player base will certainly not keep them around for long.
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Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
It passed skeleton and just became bonemeal.The horse is dead.
So dead it's a skeleton
No amount of stamina upgrades and 'HA' shouts or whips are getting it sprinting people.
Stop flogging it.Khajiitihaswares wrote: »hooo a global AH thread in disguise ! I'm feeling all giddy !
Serioulsy, there's no global AH, and there will -hopefully'- never be.
This system is fine, spots are freeing all the time, anyone can try.
If you don't want to join a guild, and to try and make sale, sell your stuff directly to players, but accept a price cut.
people already are forced to accept price cut by just no being in top spot guilds
um...no. You can list your items for whatever price you want; note some of the blue beginner motifs showing up costing over 1k. After a certain point, however, no one is going to pay ridiculous prices for items that aren't really rare.
Even if you're in a "top guild" that's in a "top spot", people aren't going to pay prices they consider to be too high. What the market will bear isn't the same as "let's play extortion". Everyone has the option to NOT buy anything.
yeah no....
joined into guild in great spot, got at start good sales with great price form me - no a single lowered price item, next week this guild lost trader from elden root into solitude...after 2 weeks in solitude I left this guild because maybe only single item have sol here with these prices over so long time....joined another guilds, in elden root again and 2nd inn vivec....my sales have reanimated with still high prices for what I was selling before
and this is just single, last of my experiences with case like that
tell me again as bad spots wont force you to lower prices to get items sold
I never said they wouldn't. Especially if you're pricing items high to begin with. It also depends on whether people want to buy what you're selling. If no one wants those Ta runes because they already have several thousand, doesn't matter if you price them at a single gold each, they won't sell.
When a guild has a "hub" spot people tend to decide "I'll check out the traders here, and buy from the cheapest" because they don't want to spend time looking for the item elsewhere. Still, unless you're really really really desperate to find that Orcrest Agony Pale Ale recipe, you'll look around other traders before spending 100k for it. Ridiculous is ridiculous.
Right. Then most other players trash the items because well they don't want deal with trade guilds which causes price inflation we have today. Price inflation not too big deal have plenty gold but it would help curb that.
The in game economy is governed by supply and demand just like the real economy. It's not that most people dont' want to deal with trade guilds, its that most people dont deal with trade period. It isn't something that interest them. If they make enough cash from other sources, then its even less interesting. Besides jewelry items and heartwood atm, i consider the average price of most stuff to be in a healthy range. Both of the ones i mentioned are because of ZoS needing to adjust a few things, not because of traders.0 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Khajiitihaswares wrote: »hooo a global AH thread in disguise ! I'm feeling all giddy !
Serioulsy, there's no global AH, and there will -hopefully'- never be.
This system is fine, spots are freeing all the time, anyone can try.
If you don't want to join a guild, and to try and make sale, sell your stuff directly to players, but accept a price cut.
people already are forced to accept price cut by just no being in top spot guilds
um...no. You can list your items for whatever price you want; note some of the blue beginner motifs showing up costing over 1k. After a certain point, however, no one is going to pay ridiculous prices for items that aren't really rare.
Even if you're in a "top guild" that's in a "top spot", people aren't going to pay prices they consider to be too high. What the market will bear isn't the same as "let's play extortion". Everyone has the option to NOT buy anything.
yeah no....
joined into guild in great spot, got at start good sales with great price form me - no a single lowered price item, next week this guild lost trader from elden root into solitude...after 2 weeks in solitude I left this guild because maybe only single item have sol here with these prices over so long time....joined another guilds, in elden root again and 2nd inn vivec....my sales have reanimated with still high prices for what I was selling before
and this is just single, last of my experiences with case like that
tell me again as bad spots wont force you to lower prices to get items sold
I never said they wouldn't. Especially if you're pricing items high to begin with. It also depends on whether people want to buy what you're selling. If no one wants those Ta runes because they already have several thousand, doesn't matter if you price them at a single gold each, they won't sell.
When a guild has a "hub" spot people tend to decide "I'll check out the traders here, and buy from the cheapest" because they don't want to spend time looking for the item elsewhere. Still, unless you're really really really desperate to find that Orcrest Agony Pale Ale recipe, you'll look around other traders before spending 100k for it. Ridiculous is ridiculous.
Right. Then most other players trash the items because well they don't want deal with trade guilds which causes price inflation we have today. Price inflation not too big deal have plenty gold but it would help curb that.
What price inflation?
There are items that become popular at certain times, like improvers when the meta changes, or housing mats when new furnishings come out. But overall, prices trend downwards until they stabilize.
Like, when the game launched, blue motif books sold for 1-2k gold. Now you can barely give them away.
I sold Barbaric motifs for 20k and Daedric for 30k. Now the only one of those motifs that's still priced the same is Imperial, because it's a super rare drop.
A guildie spent 1.5 million gold to buy all the pieces of the Psijic Ambrosia recipe when it first came out. Now you can probably buy all the parts for 2-3k gold total.
Motifs start at a high price then trend downwards until they crash during the Jubilee event, then slowly go up again, but never back to their original high.
Crafting mats are only priced above vendor price because of daily crafting writs. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to give them away.
Gear is a hot commodity right now because people are filling up their sticker books, but this is going to trend downwards soon, and then most gear will be cheap as dirt because we can all reconstruct what we want without even using mats.
Where are you seeing this inflation?The Moot Councillor4 -
Khajiitihaswares✭✭✭Easy to see it happening in local main hubs. I see those main hubs listing higher and higher. Supply and demand doesn't count when the system in place forces normal person to trash items causing artificial shortages. System itself causes it.
Eh like I said it isnt my problem. I have 6 accounts that farm up. Gold is a joke presently since each account I was able to snag for about $7 usd. That was my work around for trade guilds and gold income now I just need find gold sinks besides houses.
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Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Khajiitihaswares wrote: »Easy to see it happening in local main hubs. I see those main hubs listing higher and higher. Supply and demand doesn't count when the system in place forces normal person to trash items causing artificial shortages. System itself causes it.
Eh like I said it isnt my problem. I have 6 accounts that farm up. Gold is a joke presently since each account I was able to snag for about $7 usd. That was my work around for trade guilds and gold income now I just need find gold sinks besides houses.
Like what, though?
I've been looking at traders for gear I need for my sticker book and I buy only the cheap stuff, and I'm having no trouble finding stuff at my price point.The Moot Councillor1 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
zos said the player numbers was close to the same on all platforms and its not that good one steam."Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes1 -
WiseSky✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I prefer shopping all around the world...
What's next ?
Buy and Sell from Characters selections screen and then hop into a PUG Trail and then Log off?
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Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
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PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »
I can sell from my character screen ???? Please explain?
First you explain how an auction house would lead to what you posted. I'll wait.3 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
In the questions I proposed it is.1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
Regardless of the population, the fact is there is a limited number of available slots for people to trade out of a guild trader which is just shy of 100k.2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
But secondly, how do people then make money? There is no dedicated trade chat. The addons that tried to emulate a central auction house were banned. I do not see zone chat in any zone in game being bombarded by WTS, WTB etc. I see flippers and I see guild trade spam, but the amount of people looking to make gold is slim.
The only way to reliably make gold in game is through guild traders. So I find it hard to be believe that 50% of the player base does not take part in this activity.3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
Only on paper. The time it takes to do all the activities you listed is far beyond the average time 50% of the population has to play the game. Also your example assumes a player who has been playing for years and has dumped massive amounts of real life $ into the game.
Edited by Raideen on January 4, 2021 11:08PM2 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭My social guild has a little over 200 members, we have a guild trader every week. Many of our members choose not to actively sell through the guild, even though they have items of value such as housing mats that they freely give away to guild members.
So the argument that people are excluded from trading is suspect at best. Many are not interested in trading.
Would an AH make them change their mind? No, no it wouldn't, they have no interest in trade. I trade, I trade a lot, I make a lot, I'm quite happy with the current system, I've experienced an AH before in Runescape and whilst I was surprised at the lack of an AH in ESO once I got the hang of how the guild trader system works I embraced it. Would I prefer an AH? No, I'm quite happy with the current system.1 -
Pixiepumpkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭id rather have an auction house. its easier and more accessible for everyone"Class identity isn’t just about power or efficiency. It’s about symbolic clarity, mechanical cohesion, and a shared visual and tactical language between players." - sans-culottes3 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
so for 2nd point - many player are not inteeressed with trading mingame, they would be happe if they could sell anything even trash without need to be in guild for this...but as this system requires this and having guild trader this is reason why people are not interessed with trading minigame in this game, they have no time for this and they dont wanna to stress by this
for 3rd point...yeah, you can make much gold without selling in trading guilds....but for people about which I explained in to 2nd point...if they dont want to stress, dont have time for being in trade guild so they wont have time to make dailys on all alts just to make more gold without need of care for not being kicked from trade guild
2nd and 3rd point are connected in their way
if player dont have time for doing tons of dailys for gold then they ffor sure wont have time to care to be kept in trade guild only to sell few items per week if not less and so it works in 2nd way
if they dont have time to care, to stress with trade guild then they dont have time, willing to waste their time of playing for doing only dailys just for gold which wont be their fun to do2 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
You are assuming one of your two bullet points must be true. The number of players in a trade guild simply isn't a good indication of overall population. Some players enjoy trading treating it as end game activity and join trade guilds for the long term. A lot of players will join a trade guild for a couple of weeks to unload items then quit and move on. Other players are content selling their items to guild mates through the trader available to guild members only. Any guild over I think it is fifty members can have a guild trader. Other players are perfectly content to sell their items in zone chat. Still other players have no interest in selling anything other than to vendors.
Again traders are always looking for members. I'm sure ZoS is aware of the number of players in the obvious trade guilds and through that have an approximation of how many players actively engage in trading or want to engage in trading. If/when trading becomes more popular we will probably see more vendors added to the game. For now the number of vendors serves all who want to participate.
I would like them to place another vendor alongside all the vendors that stand alone. The ones in thieves dens and out in the wild by wayshrines. If there were two instead of one it might entice more players to visit.
ZoS made adjustments to campaigns in Cyrodiil based on population. If they felt the need they could also adjust traders accordingly based on population and interest.
The top trade guilds are as much end game as guilds working trials to get on the leader board or guilds trying to get as many of their members emperor as they can. No need to take trading away from the players that like it when there is no major problem with the system in place. Sure it could use a few tweaks but mostly it is a good system and we do have a stable economy that allows most players to get everything they need and most of what they want.
"I never changed my stance or claims...could you please quote me where I changed my claims?"
I didn't say you changed your stance nor your claims. You did make more claims and I addressed them.Edited by kargen27 on January 4, 2021 11:18PMand then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A lot of new players are interested in selling purple items (set pieces, motifs, recipes) but since they don't play enough or have no interest in the requirements for a trading guild they simply vendor their items and are stuck with very little gold.
Traders are not required for trading but they are by far the easiest and most profitable. I'd argue that zone chat selling and vendoring are not even close to comparable from a trading standpoint. It'd be like a race between a F1 car and on foot.
Lastly, Devs minds can be changed. Yes, we are most certainly beating a dead horse. But eventually, someone will notice all the blood and there's a chance things could change. This is a MMO we're talking about here. A lot of us pay $13-$15 a month so the game will get better, not worse.4 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
so for 2nd point - many player are not inteeressed with trading mingame, they would be happe if they could sell anything even trash without need to be in guild for this...but as this system requires this and having guild trader this is reason why people are not interessed with trading minigame in this game, they have no time for this and they dont wanna to stress by this
for 3rd point...yeah, you can make much gold without selling in trading guilds....but for people about which I explained in to 2nd point...if they dont want to stress, dont have time for being in trade guild so they wont have time to make dailys on all alts just to make more gold without need of care for not being kicked from trade guild
2nd and 3rd point are connected in their way
if player dont have time for doing tons of dailys for gold then they ffor sure wont have time to care to be kept in trade guild only to sell few items per week if not less and so it works in 2nd way
if they dont have time to care, to stress with trade guild then they dont have time, willing to waste their time of playing for doing only dailys just for gold which wont be their fun to do
No, the 2nd point is people who just don't care about selling stuff period. Not that they don't want to join a trade guild to sell. Not that they want an auction house. They just don't want to sell. period.
This game has a large population from the single player Elder Scrolls games. They have zero to no interest in the "MMO" aspects of the game.
They are just as much players in this game as every other one of us.
Are there players that want to trade but not be in a trade guild... I'm certain there are (they've posted in this thread).. but you're talking about a subset (those upset with the trader system) of a subset (those are that interested in the trader system)... so it's likely to be a fairly small population.Edited by tmbrinks on January 4, 2021 11:30PMThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »A lot of new players are interested in selling purple items (set pieces, motifs, recipes) but since they don't play enough or have no interest in the requirements for a trading guild they simply vendor their items and are stuck with very little gold.
Traders are not required for trading but they are by far the easiest and most profitable. I'd argue that zone chat selling and vendoring are not even close to comparable from a trading standpoint. It'd be like a race between a F1 car and on foot.
Lastly, Devs minds can be changed. Yes, we are most certainly beating a dead horse. But eventually, someone will notice all the blood and there's a chance things could change. This is a MMO we're talking about here. A lot of us pay $13-$15 a month so the game will get better, not worse.
You are correct that selling in zone chat and in a trade guild are not close at all. People in trade guilds put a lot of time into trading that others do not. There is also a big difference in running a normal trial with a pug and going for all the achievements in a vet hard mode run. For the achievement run you are going to have to join a trial guild and spend a lot of time learning the trial. There are casual trade guilds that get a spot most weeks but the spot might be isolated. These spots can still allow players to bring in a good amount of gold each week and they don't take all the effort it takes to maintain a top trade spot. Players can also put items in guild only stores or they can sell in zone chat. There are many levels of selling in the game to cater to many different play styles just like other aspects of the game.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."3 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
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In the questions I proposed it is.1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
Regardless of the population, the fact is there is a limited number of available slots for people to trade out of a guild trader which is just shy of 100k.2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
But secondly, how do people then make money? There is no dedicated trade chat. The addons that tried to emulate a central auction house were banned. I do not see zone chat in any zone in game being bombarded by WTS, WTB etc. I see flippers and I see guild trade spam, but the amount of people looking to make gold is slim.
The only way to reliably make gold in game is through guild traders. So I find it hard to be believe that 50% of the player base does not take part in this activity.3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
Only on paper. The time it takes to do all the activities you listed is far beyond the average time 50% of the population has to play the game. Also your example assumes a player who has been playing for years and has dumped massive amounts of real life $ into the game.
I think you'd be surprised at how many players you don't "see" in this game, whether it's because they're doing different activities, they're in different instances, they play at different times, etc... I'd be willing to bet it's right about 50% have zero interest in the trading system.
One of my examples had real life money. I also never said it was "easy" or "quick" to do any of the other methods, just that they exist. Where do I assume they've played for years? You are putting words and assumptions in my statements that aren't there.
There's also this inherent implication in your wording "How do people then make money?" that you think a primary task everybody must have is to "make money" in this game. Some people want to be self-sufficient, they don't want to have to buy anything. If you're a solo player and you want to collect and upgrade your own personal gear for yourself, there isn't this need to make a huge amount of gold.
Edited by tmbrinks on January 5, 2021 12:09AMThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
kringled_1✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
Only on paper. The time it takes to do all the activities you listed is far beyond the average time 50% of the population has to play the game. Also your example assumes a player who has been playing for years and has dumped massive amounts of real life $ into the game.
It may be beyond the time a lot of players want to put into it, but it's not unreasonable.
My normal craft writ routine (no add-ons) is <1 hour for 2 days out of 3, and yields about what tmbrinks is describing per month (all 7 writs on 10 chars, just consumables on 5, pre-crafting every third day). It took maybe a year to have most of those characters leveled, and I was hardly in a rush for most of them. The only RL money I've put into the game is initial purchase, chapter purchases, and ESO+. I would concede that ESO+ is a huge advantage for those wanting to craft, but it's hardly massive amounts of money.
I'm in 1 total trading guild, and playing the trading game is uninteresting to me. I am in a trading guild because it allows me to sell stuff that I don't want that drops from other things I would already be doing in game, and I think the costs to me are vastly offset by what I can sell. Apparently a lot of people don't even care enough to make that level of effort, or else trade guilds would fill and stay full. There's a lot of things one can do in game (probably the vast majority) that does not require regular large expenditures of gold.3 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »
Wat[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!0 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
so for 2nd point - many player are not inteeressed with trading mingame, they would be happe if they could sell anything even trash without need to be in guild for this...but as this system requires this and having guild trader this is reason why people are not interessed with trading minigame in this game, they have no time for this and they dont wanna to stress by this
for 3rd point...yeah, you can make much gold without selling in trading guilds....but for people about which I explained in to 2nd point...if they dont want to stress, dont have time for being in trade guild so they wont have time to make dailys on all alts just to make more gold without need of care for not being kicked from trade guild
2nd and 3rd point are connected in their way
if player dont have time for doing tons of dailys for gold then they ffor sure wont have time to care to be kept in trade guild only to sell few items per week if not less and so it works in 2nd way
if they dont have time to care, to stress with trade guild then they dont have time, willing to waste their time of playing for doing only dailys just for gold which wont be their fun to do
No, the 2nd point is people who just don't care about selling stuff period. Not that they don't want to join a trade guild to sell. Not that they want an auction house. They just don't want to sell. period.
This game has a large population from the single player Elder Scrolls games. They have zero to no interest in the "MMO" aspects of the game.
They are just as much players in this game as every other one of us.
Are there players that want to trade but not be in a trade guild... I'm certain there are (they've posted in this thread).. but you're talking about a subset (those upset with the trader system) of a subset (those are that interested in the trader system)... so it's likely to be a fairly small population.
paint about people dont care...about people who really jsut dont care because they are doing that much nothing for need for trading and still for people who dont care because for this system
I have meet not only single player and I had few friends with who I was playing, they was playing more casually than me, we was running vet dlc dungs, we was gaining motifs
and here is the best....when we was runnning dungs they was getting for some motifs worth 10k-100k depending on rng and they wasn't interessed with selling them themselves because of this system
theyhad no time, they didnt care to be in trade guild only to be able to sell anything
everytime they asked me f I could list these motifs, items for them as Im in trade guild because I was playing more
they had no a single interrest with trading here because of guidl trade system which force to be in guild and keep reqs to stay and sell things in good price, good time in great spot
if I had no spece for lsiting or if they got jsut to much things to sell....they even didnt ask more, they just kept these items waiting with hope someday they will have use of this like atleast sell if they could, if if remember about them
they could sell some items worth very much but they didn't because they had no interrest and especially no time and willings to stress with this trade system when all they wanted was just to casually play with chill, without any stress about need for stupid reqs for guild to stay in damn spot to sell things for decent price in decent time2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
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The 98,500 you are quoting are for a single server. The 880k you are quoting is for 6 servers. What is 98,500 x 6? Not all people desire to use a trade guild. I meet and help a lot of newbies in game in very few of them ask me about where they can sell their stuff. A lot of people who want to casually sell stuff will still sell it in a guild. That guild may just not have a trader. Their will only be 500 people in the guild max but people like me, who trade as an end game activity, will buy up their items and relist on our trade guilds.I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores.
What you don't understand is... well ...how the entire trading system fits together. That is why you can't grasp how this or that is possible. The cog you use to trade is only one of many ways.
When did this become a philosophical debate? We are discussing guild trader VS AH, not if a tree falls in the woods will it make a sound.Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
ZOS intentionally governs the player economy, just not in the malicious way you think. All healthy game economies are monitored and adjusted by the developer to make sure the economy is balanced. ZOS at times does a poor job of this( heartwood at new life for example) but nevertheless they do still manage the economy.• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
The active population already exceeds this number on most if not all servers.• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
Through a multitude of ways. A guild trader is not required to make a lot of money in this game. My wife play 2-4 hours a week doesnt do a trader( i manage one for her when i can be bothered so averages maybe 5k gold a week over a 2 year period), doesnt do writs, and doesn't steal, but she is a multi millionaire and owns a few million worth of gold houses. But she quests and vendors junk like there is no tomorrow.But secondly, how do people then make money?
Just because you don't understand something doesn't make it not true.1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
so for 2nd point - many player are not inteeressed with trading mingame, they would be happe if they could sell anything even trash without need to be in guild for this...but as this system requires this and having guild trader this is reason why people are not interessed with trading minigame in this game, they have no time for this and they dont wanna to stress by this
for 3rd point...yeah, you can make much gold without selling in trading guilds....but for people about which I explained in to 2nd point...if they dont want to stress, dont have time for being in trade guild so they wont have time to make dailys on all alts just to make more gold without need of care for not being kicked from trade guild
2nd and 3rd point are connected in their way
if player dont have time for doing tons of dailys for gold then they ffor sure wont have time to care to be kept in trade guild only to sell few items per week if not less and so it works in 2nd way
if they dont have time to care, to stress with trade guild then they dont have time, willing to waste their time of playing for doing only dailys just for gold which wont be their fun to do
No, the 2nd point is people who just don't care about selling stuff period. Not that they don't want to join a trade guild to sell. Not that they want an auction house. They just don't want to sell. period.
This game has a large population from the single player Elder Scrolls games. They have zero to no interest in the "MMO" aspects of the game.
They are just as much players in this game as every other one of us.
Are there players that want to trade but not be in a trade guild... I'm certain there are (they've posted in this thread).. but you're talking about a subset (those upset with the trader system) of a subset (those are that interested in the trader system)... so it's likely to be a fairly small population.
paint about people dont care...about people who really jsut dont care because they are doing that much nothing for need for trading and still for people who dont care because for this system
I have meet not only single player and I had few friends with who I was playing, they was playing more casually than me, we was running vet dlc dungs, we was gaining motifs
and here is the best....when we was runnning dungs they was getting for some motifs worth 10k-100k depending on rng and they wasn't interessed with selling them themselves because of this system
theyhad no time, they didnt care to be in trade guild only to be able to sell anything
everytime they asked me f I could list these motifs, items for them as Im in trade guild because I was playing more
they had no a single interrest with trading here because of guidl trade system which force to be in guild and keep reqs to stay and sell things in good price, good time in great spot
if I had no spece for lsiting or if they got jsut to much things to sell....they even didnt ask more, they just kept these items waiting with hope someday they will have use of this like atleast sell if they could, if if remember about them
they could sell some items worth very much but they didn't because they had no interrest and especially no time and willings to stress with this trade system when all they wanted was just to casually play with chill, without any stress about need for stupid reqs for guild to stay in damn spot to sell things for decent price in decent time
anecdotal evidence doesn't apply to everyone in the game.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points0 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
so for 2nd point - many player are not inteeressed with trading mingame, they would be happe if they could sell anything even trash without need to be in guild for this...but as this system requires this and having guild trader this is reason why people are not interessed with trading minigame in this game, they have no time for this and they dont wanna to stress by this
for 3rd point...yeah, you can make much gold without selling in trading guilds....but for people about which I explained in to 2nd point...if they dont want to stress, dont have time for being in trade guild so they wont have time to make dailys on all alts just to make more gold without need of care for not being kicked from trade guild
2nd and 3rd point are connected in their way
if player dont have time for doing tons of dailys for gold then they ffor sure wont have time to care to be kept in trade guild only to sell few items per week if not less and so it works in 2nd way
if they dont have time to care, to stress with trade guild then they dont have time, willing to waste their time of playing for doing only dailys just for gold which wont be their fun to do
No, the 2nd point is people who just don't care about selling stuff period. Not that they don't want to join a trade guild to sell. Not that they want an auction house. They just don't want to sell. period.
This game has a large population from the single player Elder Scrolls games. They have zero to no interest in the "MMO" aspects of the game.
They are just as much players in this game as every other one of us.
Are there players that want to trade but not be in a trade guild... I'm certain there are (they've posted in this thread).. but you're talking about a subset (those upset with the trader system) of a subset (those are that interested in the trader system)... so it's likely to be a fairly small population.
paint about people dont care...about people who really jsut dont care because they are doing that much nothing for need for trading and still for people who dont care because for this system
I have meet not only single player and I had few friends with who I was playing, they was playing more casually than me, we was running vet dlc dungs, we was gaining motifs
and here is the best....when we was runnning dungs they was getting for some motifs worth 10k-100k depending on rng and they wasn't interessed with selling them themselves because of this system
theyhad no time, they didnt care to be in trade guild only to be able to sell anything
everytime they asked me f I could list these motifs, items for them as Im in trade guild because I was playing more
they had no a single interrest with trading here because of guidl trade system which force to be in guild and keep reqs to stay and sell things in good price, good time in great spot
if I had no spece for lsiting or if they got jsut to much things to sell....they even didnt ask more, they just kept these items waiting with hope someday they will have use of this like atleast sell if they could, if if remember about them
they could sell some items worth very much but they didn't because they had no interrest and especially no time and willings to stress with this trade system when all they wanted was just to casually play with chill, without any stress about need for stupid reqs for guild to stay in damn spot to sell things for decent price in decent time
anecdotal evidence doesn't apply to everyone in the game.
like just not willing to trade doesn't apply to everyone in game who dont want to trade because of different reasons
and I can say just not willing to trade doesn't apply at all for arguments here because there are also many players who would want to trade but they dont because of this system2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
so for 2nd point - many player are not inteeressed with trading mingame, they would be happe if they could sell anything even trash without need to be in guild for this...but as this system requires this and having guild trader this is reason why people are not interessed with trading minigame in this game, they have no time for this and they dont wanna to stress by this
for 3rd point...yeah, you can make much gold without selling in trading guilds....but for people about which I explained in to 2nd point...if they dont want to stress, dont have time for being in trade guild so they wont have time to make dailys on all alts just to make more gold without need of care for not being kicked from trade guild
2nd and 3rd point are connected in their way
if player dont have time for doing tons of dailys for gold then they ffor sure wont have time to care to be kept in trade guild only to sell few items per week if not less and so it works in 2nd way
if they dont have time to care, to stress with trade guild then they dont have time, willing to waste their time of playing for doing only dailys just for gold which wont be their fun to do
No, the 2nd point is people who just don't care about selling stuff period. Not that they don't want to join a trade guild to sell. Not that they want an auction house. They just don't want to sell. period.
This game has a large population from the single player Elder Scrolls games. They have zero to no interest in the "MMO" aspects of the game.
They are just as much players in this game as every other one of us.
Are there players that want to trade but not be in a trade guild... I'm certain there are (they've posted in this thread).. but you're talking about a subset (those upset with the trader system) of a subset (those are that interested in the trader system)... so it's likely to be a fairly small population.
paint about people dont care...about people who really jsut dont care because they are doing that much nothing for need for trading and still for people who dont care because for this system
I have meet not only single player and I had few friends with who I was playing, they was playing more casually than me, we was running vet dlc dungs, we was gaining motifs
and here is the best....when we was runnning dungs they was getting for some motifs worth 10k-100k depending on rng and they wasn't interessed with selling them themselves because of this system
theyhad no time, they didnt care to be in trade guild only to be able to sell anything
everytime they asked me f I could list these motifs, items for them as Im in trade guild because I was playing more
they had no a single interrest with trading here because of guidl trade system which force to be in guild and keep reqs to stay and sell things in good price, good time in great spot
if I had no spece for lsiting or if they got jsut to much things to sell....they even didnt ask more, they just kept these items waiting with hope someday they will have use of this like atleast sell if they could, if if remember about them
they could sell some items worth very much but they didn't because they had no interrest and especially no time and willings to stress with this trade system when all they wanted was just to casually play with chill, without any stress about need for stupid reqs for guild to stay in damn spot to sell things for decent price in decent time
anecdotal evidence doesn't apply to everyone in the game.
like just not willing to trade doesn't apply to everyone in game who dont want to trade because of different reasons
and I can say just not willing to trade doesn't apply at all for arguments here because there are also many players who would want to trade but they dont because of this system
And everybody has the choice to interact with the system or not.
I have a friend who does the same thing with me, when he gets valuable items, he sends them to me to sell. But he's not looking to overhaul a core system of the game, which I repeat, has given us a stable economy for 7 YEARS, a HUGE accomplishment in an MMO.
As somebody else has said, and as I linked earlier, in the fact that ZoS has responded to this, they are adamantly AGAINST a central auction house for everybody. They don't want it in the game. This is a dead, desiccated corpse that we are still beating.
So, if you want to convince them otherwise, you're going to have to do much more than some anecdotal evidence that a few people are "shut out" of the system when it still sounds like it's just personal preference. (Seems to me they want the advantages of a "prime" guild trader, but without having to do anything to justify their spot in that trader, such as selling enough, or paying dues, which has already been shown that most dues can be covered by about 10-15 minutes of gameplay).
You need to show that this game NEEDS an auction house to survive... whereas all that has been shown here is that some players WANT an auction house because it would be easier for them.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points3 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
so for 2nd point - many player are not inteeressed with trading mingame, they would be happe if they could sell anything even trash without need to be in guild for this...but as this system requires this and having guild trader this is reason why people are not interessed with trading minigame in this game, they have no time for this and they dont wanna to stress by this
for 3rd point...yeah, you can make much gold without selling in trading guilds....but for people about which I explained in to 2nd point...if they dont want to stress, dont have time for being in trade guild so they wont have time to make dailys on all alts just to make more gold without need of care for not being kicked from trade guild
2nd and 3rd point are connected in their way
if player dont have time for doing tons of dailys for gold then they ffor sure wont have time to care to be kept in trade guild only to sell few items per week if not less and so it works in 2nd way
if they dont have time to care, to stress with trade guild then they dont have time, willing to waste their time of playing for doing only dailys just for gold which wont be their fun to do
No, the 2nd point is people who just don't care about selling stuff period. Not that they don't want to join a trade guild to sell. Not that they want an auction house. They just don't want to sell. period.
This game has a large population from the single player Elder Scrolls games. They have zero to no interest in the "MMO" aspects of the game.
They are just as much players in this game as every other one of us.
Are there players that want to trade but not be in a trade guild... I'm certain there are (they've posted in this thread).. but you're talking about a subset (those upset with the trader system) of a subset (those are that interested in the trader system)... so it's likely to be a fairly small population.
paint about people dont care...about people who really jsut dont care because they are doing that much nothing for need for trading and still for people who dont care because for this system
I have meet not only single player and I had few friends with who I was playing, they was playing more casually than me, we was running vet dlc dungs, we was gaining motifs
and here is the best....when we was runnning dungs they was getting for some motifs worth 10k-100k depending on rng and they wasn't interessed with selling them themselves because of this system
theyhad no time, they didnt care to be in trade guild only to be able to sell anything
everytime they asked me f I could list these motifs, items for them as Im in trade guild because I was playing more
they had no a single interrest with trading here because of guidl trade system which force to be in guild and keep reqs to stay and sell things in good price, good time in great spot
if I had no spece for lsiting or if they got jsut to much things to sell....they even didnt ask more, they just kept these items waiting with hope someday they will have use of this like atleast sell if they could, if if remember about them
they could sell some items worth very much but they didn't because they had no interrest and especially no time and willings to stress with this trade system when all they wanted was just to casually play with chill, without any stress about need for stupid reqs for guild to stay in damn spot to sell things for decent price in decent time
anecdotal evidence doesn't apply to everyone in the game.
like just not willing to trade doesn't apply to everyone in game who dont want to trade because of different reasons
and I can say just not willing to trade doesn't apply at all for arguments here because there are also many players who would want to trade but they dont because of this system
And everybody has the choice to interact with the system or not.
I have a friend who does the same thing with me, when he gets valuable items, he sends them to me to sell. But he's not looking to overhaul a core system of the game, which I repeat, has given us a stable economy for 7 YEARS, a HUGE accomplishment in an MMO.
As somebody else has said, and as I linked earlier, in the fact that ZoS has responded to this, they are adamantly AGAINST a central auction house for everybody. They don't want it in the game. This is a dead, desiccated corpse that we are still beating.
So, if you want to convince them otherwise, you're going to have to do much more than some anecdotal evidence that a few people are "shut out" of the system when it still sounds like it's just personal preference. (Seems to me they want the advantages of a "prime" guild trader, but without having to do anything to justify their spot in that trader, such as selling enough, or paying dues, which has already been shown that most dues can be covered by about 10-15 minutes of gameplay).
You need to show that this game NEEDS an auction house to survive... whereas all that has been shown here is that some players WANT an auction house because it would be easier for them.
as everybody have choice for this so many just leave it and are in big disadvantage which for sure doesnt make them to play for more, with more joy
all the way You defend ZOS and what ZOS is saying is just classic ZOS behaviour - instead put most to get more players and be more opened for them You defend what is currently with doesnt matter it can alredy run just on minimum or close minimum to have resources to run
instead to open for more players and make it even greater, maybe and higher profit, for sure it wont be downfall because it would interest much more players
just like crown store.....lets keep it on "most expensive as possible spot" so we can get as much as we can per sell and so do not so much transactions instead of lower it a bit to make it more accessiable for more players....be it same profit if not higher but it will make jot for much more players which alter will spend more money for this if more of them start enjoying it more
naaahhhh....lets just keep it "limited" to some of our rich fanatics who will support us and ignore poor people who could also support us if will give hime more enjoy of product they already paid at all
it is just single example of ZOS work in every aspect of this game as they are to stubborn to agree with anyone else but not with themselves for anything, they wont even try oto gather more worth feedback because they know they would need to agree with players who would want them to change anything from their design to make it more comfortable for more and additional players2