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Where is the auction house?
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iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »SeaGtGruff wrote: »"There is nothing wrong with the system as it is."
Anyone who says that, if you honestly believe it then why are you having to resort to TTC and MM to help you use "the system as it is" in a useful way?
"The game has a healthy economy."
Translation: The game's economy is healthy for traders, but not necessarily for end-use buyers (meaning buyers who actually use the purchased goods for themselves instead of flipping them to make a profit or using them to craft goods for sale). But who cares about end-use buyers, right?
I don't use TTC and I would not shed a tear if it was completely disabled.
MM keeps track of sales you can see in your own guild history and the prices it shows you will depend on which guilds you are a part of.
good for you you dont need these
but now think for other players who are not you and it is visible an huge majority of total playerbase of this game is using these addons which should tell you something is wrong with basic system and what favours majority of players then
Do you have some proof that a large majority of the player base is using these? Because i know a lot of people that don't. The entire populations of Xbox and PS4 for starters.
Farmer bots are extremely minor in ESO and mat prices are healthy. I dont know what point you are trying to make but mat prices are pretty good...except jewelry but that is ZOS's fault not bots or players.SeaGtGruff wrote: »"There is nothing wrong with the system as it is."
Anyone who says that, if you honestly believe it then why are you having to resort to TTC and MM to help you use "the system as it is" in a useful way?
"The game has a healthy economy."
Translation: The game's economy is healthy for traders, but not necessarily for end-use buyers (meaning buyers who actually use the purchased goods for themselves instead of flipping them to make a profit or using them to craft goods for sale). But who cares about end-use buyers, right?
Lol what? You realize price fixing is a hundred times easier with a central market right? People legit have bots to buy up all the good deals in seconds in other games
and in other games along with eso there are farmer bots to farm mats, hides, whatever, breaking game economy by giving much more mats than they would be in the circulation of commerce
hard to use TTC or other literally any addons on console where consoles cant use them? so it is just pointless to give esample on consoles which dont even have rights to use addons when they wanted
about majority just look at how many downloads are of these addons and just look at trade guilds members....I will say it that it will be so small miniority that will tell you they dont have addons for trading, for pricing items
along with mine experience I havn't meet a single person not using or not relying on addons to price check or to find where can be something listed what they look for and most of them dont even mind trying this "trading minigame" when they just can play this game indstead struggling and running through dozen of zones just to find single item
and if bots are not problem for ESO then why be scared of other bots?1 -
LalMirchi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Khajiitihaswares wrote: »I see guild stores which are useless... Closest thing I find is TTC? Is there another addon or npc that consolidates all these items so I can browse for best price without using TTC? Or is TTC the ?
No thank you, the system works fine as it is.3 -
SickDuck✭✭✭✭✭This game does not have an auction house, it was deliberately chosen this way by ZOS. This game does not even need one, to be honest it is perfectly fine to play the game without ever using any of the traders.
Although it has its issues, the trader system has some charm especially to role players - which ESO tends to cater for. At least it is different from all the other games.Holdviola - Khira'de Regalo - Lélekvadász - Used To Be An Adventurer - Zetor - Does-Not-Give-A-Duck - Lord Sugar - Tenar Arha - Da'rinka - Violent Moon - Extreme Runner3 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SeaGtGruff wrote: »A centralized board that shows real-time listings from all guilds-- automatically "scanned in" as they're put up for sale in the guild stores of those guilds who've won a trader, and automatically updated as items are sold-- would be awesome. I rather doubt it would be doable-- it would probably melt the servers, or at the very least would be prone to lagging and freezing that is exponentially longer than the occassional lagging and freezing that can happen while you're trying to deposit something into a guild bank-- but it would be awesome if it were doable.
I don't know the specifics but Guild Wars 2 runs their Trading Post on a seperate server. The menu for it is actually a custom web browser window, built into the game which connects to that server. I think it's the same one their website and forum is hosted on, but seperate from the ones running the game itself to spread the demand out.
I assume since ESO has had mega server tech since day 1 they could do something similar.Khajiitihaswares wrote: »Khajiitihaswares wrote: »belial5221_ESO wrote: »There is no central guildhouse,and probably never will.There is multiple guild stores run by diff guilds.To sell in them,you gotta join them.You can be in up to 5.TTC you can search them if they were scanned,but on switchover days it's chaotic.
Ah okay so TTC is the auction house then. This makes sense. At least it conslidates stuff because man this guild store system seems something out 90's Ragnorok online... but minus merchant npc's. Mmm. Central Guildstore npc would be nice if that ever happened. Would make finding one item easier instead of jumping thru world price hunting and spending most of the day on it.
Keep in mind that the easier stuff is to 'find' - the easier it is to get found by the guys spending more time looking for stuff than you do, which means sought after stuff will just be gone faster.
An auction house, or central clearing location for stuff being sold is a mixed bag, not a solution.
True but I would be able pull the item I need then sort by price then buy it from the guild that offers the better price no?
At least there is TTC X_X. Guess I can work around this system a little bit, just disappointing how time consuming it is.
Any item that is listed on TTC at a significanly better price than the average was likely bought out by the very person who scanned it, so I would not go after those unless you are willing to waste time.
Items in this game are not hard to find in general. If you don't like the trading system, you can get them yourself.
You can also easily trade in zone, as many people do.
It doesn't quite work like that in practice, for two reasons:
1) TTC scans are performed by sellers as well as buyers, I always scan my guild store just after I've listed stuff for sale so it will appear there. So there's always a chance you'll be the first one to go looking for an item after that lower priced listing has been put up, especially if it's not something in high demand.
2) There's a lot of range between the absolute lowest prices and what the dedicated trade guilds charge to try and meet the fees they have to pay for their traders. When I'm buying motifs for example I'll sort by price then look at when each one was listed. I'll usually skip the first two or three listings unless they're brand new, then check any posted in the last 12 hours or so. Doing that usually means I can get one for about 2/3 to 1/2 what the 'average' price is. It's reliable enough that if I start getting into the lower end of TTC's average I'll give up on that motif for now and try again another day because I know it means I'm spending more than I need to.Anotherone773 wrote: »Khajiitihaswares wrote: »belial5221_ESO wrote: »There is no central guildhouse,and probably never will.There is multiple guild stores run by diff guilds.To sell in them,you gotta join them.You can be in up to 5.TTC you can search them if they were scanned,but on switchover days it's chaotic.
Ah okay so TTC is the auction house then. This makes sense. At least it conslidates stuff because man this guild store system seems something out 90's Ragnorok online... but minus merchant npc's. Mmm. Central Guildstore npc would be nice if that ever happened. Would make finding one item easier instead of jumping thru world price hunting and spending most of the day on it.
Central auction systems always lead penny wars which always leads to items becoming mostly worthless. I have never played a game with healthy AH system. It has always been empty except for noobs posting junk and a few people posting only high end stuff.
The fractured market system is far superior for a healthy economy and making sure you can find pretty much everything you need that is BoE or not bound. It's only more work if you always must have the lowest price possible and can't be bothered to use TTC to find items.
So, to put that last paragraph another way the system we have now only works because TTC is doing exactly what the OP asked for ZOS to provide. If the system we have is already reliant on having a centralised listing of guild trader sales why shouldn't ZOS be the ones to maintain it, instead of relying on players to fix their broken system?PC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"5 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
So, to put that last paragraph another way the system we have now only works because TTC is doing exactly what the OP asked for ZOS to provide. If the system we have is already reliant on having a centralised listing of guild trader sales why shouldn't ZOS be the ones to maintain it, instead of relying on players to fix their broken system?
The system works without TTC. All you have to decide is how much you are willing to pay for something and whether you want to spend the time to find the cheapest possible, or if finding the first item in your price range is good enough for you.
It works really well for me. I highly recommend it.The Moot Councillor2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
hard to use TTC or other literally any addons on console where consoles cant use them? so it is just pointless to give esample on consoles which dont even have rights to use addons when they wanted
Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.about majority just look at how many downloads are of these addons and just look at trade guilds members....I will say it that it will be so small miniority that will tell you they dont have addons for trading, for pricing items
along with mine experience I havn't meet a single person not using or not relying on addons to price check or to find where can be something listed what they look for and most of them dont even mind trying this "trading minigame" when they just can play this game indstead struggling and running through dozen of zones just to find single item
This makes no sense. Translation???and if bots are not problem for ESO then why be scared of other bots?
But its not. A central AH allows me to stand at an NPC and buy and and sell from everyone all over the server without moving. That is such an easy system to exploit on so many levels. This system is impossible to exploit in the same ways.
So, to put that last paragraph another way the system we have now only works because TTC is doing exactly what the OP asked for ZOS to provide. If the system we have is already reliant on having a centralised listing of guild trader sales why shouldn't ZOS be the ones to maintain it, instead of relying on players to fix their broken system?
What TTC provides is not argument for an AH or an argument against this system. Even though AH supporters keep trying to make it into one. TTC is an information tool. It is not a tool that is necessary for this system to operate, it is a tool that give a person using this system access to more information.
These types of tools are normal in game with a real functioning capitalistic economy. The reason you dont see them in game with a central AH is because they dont have real player economies. An AH is a lazy way to give players a trading system that they also lazily double as a gold sink. What you misunderstand is that an AH is not better than a system like we have, its used in place of a superior system like we currently have. When people come here, from other games, asking for a central AH, that is asking for a downgrade... a nerf to our trading system, not an upgrade like they think it is.
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PizzaCat82✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Some of these arguments are ridiculous. No need to use the traders, you can spam zone chat like the 50 lowball scammers do every day?
Guild traders caters to Role Players? Making things needlessly hard isn't catering to roleplayers, sorry.
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tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »SeaGtGruff wrote: »"There is nothing wrong with the system as it is."
Anyone who says that, if you honestly believe it then why are you having to resort to TTC and MM to help you use "the system as it is" in a useful way?
"The game has a healthy economy."
Translation: The game's economy is healthy for traders, but not necessarily for end-use buyers (meaning buyers who actually use the purchased goods for themselves instead of flipping them to make a profit or using them to craft goods for sale). But who cares about end-use buyers, right?
I don't use TTC and I would not shed a tear if it was completely disabled.
MM keeps track of sales you can see in your own guild history and the prices it shows you will depend on which guilds you are a part of.
good for you you dont need these
but now think for other players who are not you and it is visible an huge majority of total playerbase of this game is using these addons which should tell you something is wrong with basic system and what favours majority of players then
Do you have some proof that a large majority of the player base is using these? Because i know a lot of people that don't. The entire populations of Xbox and PS4 for starters.
Farmer bots are extremely minor in ESO and mat prices are healthy. I dont know what point you are trying to make but mat prices are pretty good...except jewelry but that is ZOS's fault not bots or players.SeaGtGruff wrote: »"There is nothing wrong with the system as it is."
Anyone who says that, if you honestly believe it then why are you having to resort to TTC and MM to help you use "the system as it is" in a useful way?
"The game has a healthy economy."
Translation: The game's economy is healthy for traders, but not necessarily for end-use buyers (meaning buyers who actually use the purchased goods for themselves instead of flipping them to make a profit or using them to craft goods for sale). But who cares about end-use buyers, right?
Lol what? You realize price fixing is a hundred times easier with a central market right? People legit have bots to buy up all the good deals in seconds in other games
and in other games along with eso there are farmer bots to farm mats, hides, whatever, breaking game economy by giving much more mats than they would be in the circulation of commerce
hard to use TTC or other literally any addons on console where consoles cant use them? so it is just pointless to give esample on consoles which dont even have rights to use addons when they wanted
about majority just look at how many downloads are of these addons and just look at trade guilds members....I will say it that it will be so small miniority that will tell you they dont have addons for trading, for pricing items
along with mine experience I havn't meet a single person not using or not relying on addons to price check or to find where can be something listed what they look for and most of them dont even mind trying this "trading minigame" when they just can play this game indstead struggling and running through dozen of zones just to find single item
and if bots are not problem for ESO then why be scared of other bots?
you realize that the number of downloads counts every time the author updates the add-on and you have to re-download it. So, for an add-on like TTC that gets updated a TON, that increases the amount of downloads significantly.
Also, TTC isn't really that good. Its data is usually dated (especially for popular items), it posts listing price instead of actual sale prices, so it's skewed higher in price. It requires you to run an external program to utilize it. It's been hacked previously, so there's no telling if people aren't still doing that on a smaller level.
But people adhere to TTC like it's some bible of pricing. It has many, many, many flaws. I personally only use it to find ultra rare items I'm looking for (the very expensive and rare furnishing plans when I'm getting back to knowing all of them)
I go back to my earlier point. ESO has had a remarkably stable economy for 7 YEARS now, that is a huge accomplishment in an MMO. There is no need to change the system. Yes, if you're looking for a rare item, you might have to hunt around for it. But if you're looking for common materials, you can either hunt for a good deal, or you might pay a little extra for the convenience of a major city trader.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points2 -
majulook✭✭✭✭✭
✭Action House
1. Developer of game dose not want it.
2. The current trader system does function maybe not real easy to find stuff but it dose work.
3. Add-on can help for PC. But no Add-ons for consoles make it more difficult for them. But not impossible.
Bottom line:
Since the game has been working for several years with the trader system AND the Developer of the game does not want to have a Auction house.Si vis pacem, para bellum1 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »SeaGtGruff wrote: »"There is nothing wrong with the system as it is."
Anyone who says that, if you honestly believe it then why are you having to resort to TTC and MM to help you use "the system as it is" in a useful way?
"The game has a healthy economy."
Translation: The game's economy is healthy for traders, but not necessarily for end-use buyers (meaning buyers who actually use the purchased goods for themselves instead of flipping them to make a profit or using them to craft goods for sale). But who cares about end-use buyers, right?
I don't use TTC and I would not shed a tear if it was completely disabled.
MM keeps track of sales you can see in your own guild history and the prices it shows you will depend on which guilds you are a part of.
good for you you dont need these
but now think for other players who are not you and it is visible an huge majority of total playerbase of this game is using these addons which should tell you something is wrong with basic system and what favours majority of players then
Do you have some proof that a large majority of the player base is using these? Because i know a lot of people that don't. The entire populations of Xbox and PS4 for starters.
Farmer bots are extremely minor in ESO and mat prices are healthy. I dont know what point you are trying to make but mat prices are pretty good...except jewelry but that is ZOS's fault not bots or players.SeaGtGruff wrote: »"There is nothing wrong with the system as it is."
Anyone who says that, if you honestly believe it then why are you having to resort to TTC and MM to help you use "the system as it is" in a useful way?
"The game has a healthy economy."
Translation: The game's economy is healthy for traders, but not necessarily for end-use buyers (meaning buyers who actually use the purchased goods for themselves instead of flipping them to make a profit or using them to craft goods for sale). But who cares about end-use buyers, right?
Lol what? You realize price fixing is a hundred times easier with a central market right? People legit have bots to buy up all the good deals in seconds in other games
and in other games along with eso there are farmer bots to farm mats, hides, whatever, breaking game economy by giving much more mats than they would be in the circulation of commerce
hard to use TTC or other literally any addons on console where consoles cant use them? so it is just pointless to give esample on consoles which dont even have rights to use addons when they wanted
about majority just look at how many downloads are of these addons and just look at trade guilds members....I will say it that it will be so small miniority that will tell you they dont have addons for trading, for pricing items
along with mine experience I havn't meet a single person not using or not relying on addons to price check or to find where can be something listed what they look for and most of them dont even mind trying this "trading minigame" when they just can play this game indstead struggling and running through dozen of zones just to find single item
and if bots are not problem for ESO then why be scared of other bots?
you realize that the number of downloads counts every time the author updates the add-on and you have to re-download it. So, for an add-on like TTC that gets updated a TON, that increases the amount of downloads significantly.
Also, TTC isn't really that good. Its data is usually dated (especially for popular items), it posts listing price instead of actual sale prices, so it's skewed higher in price. It requires you to run an external program to utilize it. It's been hacked previously, so there's no telling if people aren't still doing that on a smaller level.
But people adhere to TTC like it's some bible of pricing. It has many, many, many flaws. I personally only use it to find ultra rare items I'm looking for (the very expensive and rare furnishing plans when I'm getting back to knowing all of them)
I go back to my earlier point. ESO has had a remarkably stable economy for 7 YEARS now, that is a huge accomplishment in an MMO. There is no need to change the system. Yes, if you're looking for a rare item, you might have to hunt around for it. But if you're looking for common materials, you can either hunt for a good deal, or you might pay a little extra for the convenience of a major city trader.
and so it is for what is TTC, to gather info for how much, how many items are listed in game
I for most cases use option to search online opening me site with TTC and this item and I look here to see how many offers of this item are and for how much
if I see there is many offers I will list item for average price to this without even trying to list for more
but when I see there is not so many listing of this item and that item is not trash then I know I can list it from 50k, to even 200k depending on what it is knowing it will be sold because it is going to be lsited also on TTC and players wont have to much choice when looking for that item
as it is also known if there is not many listing of not common items they wont be to much around missed for scans of TTC to be listed here so people dont even bother running every zone for trader looking for not listed rare item as it is only time waste1 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.
and I nonstop see in any trade guild Im in, someone asking for mm, price check of anything with help of addons for this
game was made lazy as was made skyrim
devs opened so many possibilities with addons because they didnt know how or was lazy to introduce many QoL for players themselves so they opened way for players to do this job for free for other players which few of things over time get finally introduced into game because game in basics was so **** it was very surprising how people was able to play it outside RP, or casual running through anything special1 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.
and I nonstop see in any trade guild Im in, someone asking for mm, price check of anything with help of addons for this
game was made lazy as was made skyrim
devs opened so many possibilities with addons because they didnt know how or was lazy to introduce many QoL for players themselves so they opened way for players to do this job for free for other players which few of things over time get finally introduced into game because game in basics was so **** it was very surprising how people was able to play it outside RP, or casual running through anything special
MM/TTC/ATT has actually caused issues for the game because of how much they scan the data... so ZoS had to throttle down how much they could do as to not destabilize the game.
Consoles (the generation it was launched on) are WAAAY worse performance wise than pretty much any PC that will run this game right now (new generation is much better). The game would not physically run on those older consoles with any of these add-ons running, they simply don't have the processing power.
So it's not a case of the developers being lazy. It's a case of them wanting the game to run on as many machines and platforms as possible, and then players can decide (optionally) if they want to run those add-ons to enhance their gameplay experience. add-ons have a SIGNIFICANT effect on performance, even on high end PCs. Now those of us who have systems that can run this game at 144 fps in it's base form... taking that performance hit to get down to 100 fps is no big deal. But for the stripped down, low-end PCs, and old generation consoles, they would perform so poorly they wouldn't even be able to run the game. (I have a very old laptop that I have put this game on... it barely runs the game. I can basically run Lazy Writ Crafter to do my writs when I don't have my desktop... any other add-ons and the game becomes a slide show)The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points0 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.
and I nonstop see in any trade guild Im in, someone asking for mm, price check of anything with help of addons for this
game was made lazy as was made skyrim
devs opened so many possibilities with addons because they didnt know how or was lazy to introduce many QoL for players themselves so they opened way for players to do this job for free for other players which few of things over time get finally introduced into game because game in basics was so **** it was very surprising how people was able to play it outside RP, or casual running through anything special
MM/TTC/ATT has actually caused issues for the game because of how much they scan the data... so ZoS had to throttle down how much they could do as to not destabilize the game.
Consoles (the generation it was launched on) are WAAAY worse performance wise than pretty much any PC that will run this game right now (new generation is much better). The game would not physically run on those older consoles with any of these add-ons running, they simply don't have the processing power.
So it's not a case of the developers being lazy. It's a case of them wanting the game to run on as many machines and platforms as possible, and then players can decide (optionally) if they want to run those add-ons to enhance their gameplay experience. add-ons have a SIGNIFICANT effect on performance, even on high end PCs. Now those of us who have systems that can run this game at 144 fps in it's base form... taking that performance hit to get down to 100 fps is no big deal. But for the stripped down, low-end PCs, and old generation consoles, they would perform so poorly they wouldn't even be able to run the game. (I have a very old laptop that I have put this game on... it barely runs the game. I can basically run Lazy Writ Crafter to do my writs when I don't have my desktop... any other add-ons and the game becomes a slide show)
so lazy or not....this is just showing they dont know how to do even basic things in game so they leave it to some players to make it instead even they themselves could do as official addons, not being in state of out of date for most time1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.
and I nonstop see in any trade guild Im in, someone asking for mm, price check of anything with help of addons for this
game was made lazy as was made skyrim
devs opened so many possibilities with addons because they didnt know how or was lazy to introduce many QoL for players themselves so they opened way for players to do this job for free for other players which few of things over time get finally introduced into game because game in basics was so **** it was very surprising how people was able to play it outside RP, or casual running through anything special
1) They didnt include a bunch of features in the game, like i said before, so they could keep it light to meet requirements set by Sony and Microsoft to release on their respective systems. This allowed them to put more into the actual game because they have to work inside a certain set of requirements in order to be approved for those systems. Why would they take space with a bunch of UI fluff when they could use that space for a better looking more immersive game?
2) The guild trader system in multitudes harder to put in place, maintain, and balance than a " one and done" auction house.
3) You consider having an AH to be a QoL improvement. It's not. It doesn't matter how you spin it. You are trying to tell me your bike is better than my car for commuting but i commute 25 miles a day and you work at the deli a few blocks down the street. A bike, in the analogy, works for you because you only commute a short distance. It doesn't work for me because it doesn't get me to work in a timely manner.
You see an AH works for you because you might want to do a quick search for an item once in a while( and you wouldn't even have 10% of the selection you do now with traders) and sometimes you might want to toss that purple Rubedo Leather Chest of Health on the AH for 300 gold but it doesnt work for most other players that depend on the trader system to save them time farming items and that use it as a way to make income. The trader system provides many with end game content as well.2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.
and I nonstop see in any trade guild Im in, someone asking for mm, price check of anything with help of addons for this
game was made lazy as was made skyrim
devs opened so many possibilities with addons because they didnt know how or was lazy to introduce many QoL for players themselves so they opened way for players to do this job for free for other players which few of things over time get finally introduced into game because game in basics was so **** it was very surprising how people was able to play it outside RP, or casual running through anything special
MM/TTC/ATT has actually caused issues for the game because of how much they scan the data... so ZoS had to throttle down how much they could do as to not destabilize the game.
Consoles (the generation it was launched on) are WAAAY worse performance wise than pretty much any PC that will run this game right now (new generation is much better). The game would not physically run on those older consoles with any of these add-ons running, they simply don't have the processing power.
So it's not a case of the developers being lazy. It's a case of them wanting the game to run on as many machines and platforms as possible, and then players can decide (optionally) if they want to run those add-ons to enhance their gameplay experience. add-ons have a SIGNIFICANT effect on performance, even on high end PCs. Now those of us who have systems that can run this game at 144 fps in it's base form... taking that performance hit to get down to 100 fps is no big deal. But for the stripped down, low-end PCs, and old generation consoles, they would perform so poorly they wouldn't even be able to run the game. (I have a very old laptop that I have put this game on... it barely runs the game. I can basically run Lazy Writ Crafter to do my writs when I don't have my desktop... any other add-ons and the game becomes a slide show)
so lazy or not....this is just showing they dont know how to do even basic things in game so they leave it to some players to make it instead even they themselves could do as official addons, not being in state of out of date for most time
or... they know the things you call "basic" are processor intensive operations and that they would cause the game to be unstable on those low-end PC systems and consoles.
To think that a small group of programmers can come up with ALL Possible things that players would want is naive. They have implemented several add-ons into the game themselves over time, those that all systems could handle! They've even hired some add-on developers to help do that implementation!The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points0 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Kiralyn2000 wrote: »People who don't want to put any effort into an aspect of the game demand that it be catered to them.
Whereas I've never seen trading/etc to be an "aspect of the game" to be "catered to" (like those wheeler-dealers who keep demanding that everything be made BoE, because they don't already have enough things to profit off of), but rather a basic game system, like chat or travel. Do games with central AH's have something for the "I wanna play Fantasy Market Mogul 2020" crowd? Sure. Meanwhile, your position seems to be that the economy should be built for/around those people, as an "aspect of the game" for them.
Question - what does the person who randomly wants to sell 0-5 items a week do in this game? And 'yell in chat' is a useless answer.Besides, how is 5k a week not casual friendly? You can farm over 100k in a single hour picking mats off ground in craglorn without getting a single potent nirn. Thats almost half a year of dues in a single hour of terrible luck farming in crag.
If all you're trying to sell is less than 5k worth of stuff (or, rather, "5k + the vendor cost of the stuff")? Having to pay to do so isn't the best.
(seriously, that's how I've used AH's in many other games. I either think 'huh, that item might be worth something, it'd be nice to get more than it's vendor cost" or "oh, someone might have a use for this." I go to the AH, search to see if it actually has value, and then throw it on there with a small undercut so it'll move within an hour or two. I get a small amount of gold, but it's more than if I just vendored the thing, so it's a success.
I don't run around farming specific things to keep my trades slots stocked, to keep a steady cashflow, and maximize my profit™. That sounds like work. And isn't what I'm interested in - in those games I've spent less than a couple minutes a week 'selling'. I do plenty of buying, though - because you can search the AH for the things you're looking for and find the best price. Which, again, only takes a few minutes a week.)
If you dont want to make money one particular way, then just dont. Nothing is forcing you. It is not a requirement to get into a good trade guild. If you want to sell less than 5k gold, you dont even need a prime trade guild to begin with. Do you know how easy it is to make 5k gold? Do crafting writs one day on a single character. That's it lol. But even if you did, you can still get into trade guilds in top tier locations with no requirements.
Here is the listing for a guild I'm in that's in Vivec, which is tied with Mournhold for highest volume locations in the game
Literally zero dues or fees or minimums.
Like how casual friendly does this need to get? Do you need access to the absolute best guild traders by logging in once every two months to sell 1k worth of stuff before it's considered casual friendly or what?
More casual friendly.
1. Let everyone sell stuff, no matter how often they log on. Maybe make an account level requirement (like 10) so that extremely new players will have to play the game a little first.
2. Let everyone have a built in TTC, no matter what system they play on.
3. Player-run trading systems is inherently bad because it relies on the whims of guild masters, which while mostly good, can also be very very toxic.
4. The current system pits players against each other just for the privilege of trading. While this may be fun for some, by its very nature it is not fun for all. For players to "win", many others must lose.
The current system is not all magical fairy trading dust like some forum posters would have you believe. Its just that they benefit from it the most.
No built in ttc, please. Since it shows what items are listed for, it can and has been manipulated and abused.
Know the thing about toxic guild masters? There is not a single way they can keep guild members from saying "Yah, no, I'm out of here." There are no legally binding "you are never allowed to quit this guild" documents players have to sign. If someone puts up with toxic guild masters and guild officers when they can leave, then the issue is with them, not the toxic people.
Exactly how, when there are so many guilds with open slots, is it some kind of competition where some win and some lose? If you want to trade, find a guild with openings. As seen above, there is more than a single guild out there. How am I being "pitted against" other players if I want to do some trading? There isn't a system of elimination where, if you "lose", you'll never be allowed to join any guild, ever, for as long as you play the game. I've been here since beta, and there have never been any ZOS-official restrictions or contests [official or otherwise] for joining any guild. The battlegrounds are battlegrounds, not "eliminate the competition" matches for joining guilds. There is no competition about pricing either; no one can demand you sell your items for X amount. If that happens, see the line about toxic guild masters.1 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.
and I nonstop see in any trade guild Im in, someone asking for mm, price check of anything with help of addons for this
game was made lazy as was made skyrim
devs opened so many possibilities with addons because they didnt know how or was lazy to introduce many QoL for players themselves so they opened way for players to do this job for free for other players which few of things over time get finally introduced into game because game in basics was so **** it was very surprising how people was able to play it outside RP, or casual running through anything special
MM/TTC/ATT has actually caused issues for the game because of how much they scan the data... so ZoS had to throttle down how much they could do as to not destabilize the game.
Consoles (the generation it was launched on) are WAAAY worse performance wise than pretty much any PC that will run this game right now (new generation is much better). The game would not physically run on those older consoles with any of these add-ons running, they simply don't have the processing power.
So it's not a case of the developers being lazy. It's a case of them wanting the game to run on as many machines and platforms as possible, and then players can decide (optionally) if they want to run those add-ons to enhance their gameplay experience. add-ons have a SIGNIFICANT effect on performance, even on high end PCs. Now those of us who have systems that can run this game at 144 fps in it's base form... taking that performance hit to get down to 100 fps is no big deal. But for the stripped down, low-end PCs, and old generation consoles, they would perform so poorly they wouldn't even be able to run the game. (I have a very old laptop that I have put this game on... it barely runs the game. I can basically run Lazy Writ Crafter to do my writs when I don't have my desktop... any other add-ons and the game becomes a slide show)
so lazy or not....this is just showing they dont know how to do even basic things in game so they leave it to some players to make it instead even they themselves could do as official addons, not being in state of out of date for most time
or... they know the things you call "basic" are processor intensive operations and that they would cause the game to be unstable on those low-end PC systems and consoles.
To think that a small group of programmers can come up with ALL Possible things that players would want is naive. They have implemented several add-ons into the game themselves over time, those that all systems could handle! They've even hired some add-on developers to help do that implementation!
yeah and ESO at start was lacking so many basics no any other online game was lacking to begin with
and I know they finally added some basics into game which was before only from addons but all of this looks like they didnt knew it can exist, how add this, how make it work etc, it looked like they needed idea from addons what and how implement some things
I say it looks like this, idk if this is 100% like this but it looks like this only because of no single communicationw thi players for needs like this, not even acknowledgement or info they are looking into it, just silence which is making players think they jsut dont care and they are incompetent
it all looks like this because of their silence to their loud community of players which see many problems and they want situation to get better an yet even when ZOS is working towards this, their silence of not informing by anything important for players is making them look so incompetent, lazy, ignorant towards their playerbase1 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For some reason ZOS thought it was important to limit the amount of people who can sell through a guild trader to 98,500.
There are 197 Guild Traders in game with 500 member slots each.
197x500=98500 Guild Trader player slots available
except that everyone can be in 5 guilds. I am in 5 trade guilds, so I take 5 of those slots, or 4 extra.
If everyone in game who did trading had 5 trade guilds there would only be 19,700 people trading at guild traders. Of course not everyone has 5 guild traders, but many do have 3. Which would then limit the amount of individual players who are using guild traders to 32,833.
I often see it promoted that this game is super healthy, making tons of money and has a player base of about 3 million. Divide that 3 million by 4 for PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, and PS and you have 750,000 players per server type on average. This means that roughly 700,000 people will not be allowed to trade at guild traders.
You're forgetting at least two things.
One, you don't require a trader to use the guild store. The trader simply opens up the store to the entire population. Without one, the guild store is still fully functional for all members of that guild.
Two, membership turnover. People don't just join a trade guild and stay for eternity. Matter of fact, most trade guilds have various policies to prevent that. Membership dues, sales quotas, inactivity limitations, etc. The 500 members of SuperDuperTradersInc today is not the same 500 members of SuperDuperTradersInc a year ago. If trade guilds simply filled up and that was the end of it, then there would be no trade guilds at all doing any recruiting today. Would take all of two minutes for anyone to prove that that's simply not the case.
I did not forget the two points you listed as they are irrelevant to my points.2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.
and I nonstop see in any trade guild Im in, someone asking for mm, price check of anything with help of addons for this
game was made lazy as was made skyrim
devs opened so many possibilities with addons because they didnt know how or was lazy to introduce many QoL for players themselves so they opened way for players to do this job for free for other players which few of things over time get finally introduced into game because game in basics was so **** it was very surprising how people was able to play it outside RP, or casual running through anything special
MM/TTC/ATT has actually caused issues for the game because of how much they scan the data... so ZoS had to throttle down how much they could do as to not destabilize the game.
Consoles (the generation it was launched on) are WAAAY worse performance wise than pretty much any PC that will run this game right now (new generation is much better). The game would not physically run on those older consoles with any of these add-ons running, they simply don't have the processing power.
So it's not a case of the developers being lazy. It's a case of them wanting the game to run on as many machines and platforms as possible, and then players can decide (optionally) if they want to run those add-ons to enhance their gameplay experience. add-ons have a SIGNIFICANT effect on performance, even on high end PCs. Now those of us who have systems that can run this game at 144 fps in it's base form... taking that performance hit to get down to 100 fps is no big deal. But for the stripped down, low-end PCs, and old generation consoles, they would perform so poorly they wouldn't even be able to run the game. (I have a very old laptop that I have put this game on... it barely runs the game. I can basically run Lazy Writ Crafter to do my writs when I don't have my desktop... any other add-ons and the game becomes a slide show)
so lazy or not....this is just showing they dont know how to do even basic things in game so they leave it to some players to make it instead even they themselves could do as official addons, not being in state of out of date for most time
or... they know the things you call "basic" are processor intensive operations and that they would cause the game to be unstable on those low-end PC systems and consoles.
To think that a small group of programmers can come up with ALL Possible things that players would want is naive. They have implemented several add-ons into the game themselves over time, those that all systems could handle! They've even hired some add-on developers to help do that implementation!
yeah and ESO at start was lacking so many basics no any other online game was lacking to begin with
and I know they finally added some basics into game which was before only from addons but all of this looks like they didnt knew it can exist, how add this, how make it work etc, it looked like they needed idea from addons what and how implement some things
I say it looks like this, idk if this is 100% like this but it looks like this only because of no single communicationw thi players for needs like this, not even acknowledgement or info they are looking into it, just silence which is making players think they jsut dont care and they are incompetent
it all looks like this because of their silence to their loud community of players which see many problems and they want situation to get better an yet even when ZOS is working towards this, their silence of not informing by anything important for players is making them look so incompetent, lazy, ignorant towards their playerbase
lack of communication on an Auction House? (if you're talking about other things fine.. but this is a thread on Auction Houses)
They have very, very, very clearly communicated that they have no interest in doing so. There are multiple OFFICIAL responses... summarized here by Varanis
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6832657/#Comment_6832657
To say there is no communication from ZoS on this issue is a flat out lie.Edited by tmbrinks on January 2, 2021 6:24PMThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points5 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For some reason ZOS thought it was important to limit the amount of people who can sell through a guild trader to 98,500.
There are 197 Guild Traders in game with 500 member slots each.
197x500=98500 Guild Trader player slots available
except that everyone can be in 5 guilds. I am in 5 trade guilds, so I take 5 of those slots, or 4 extra.
If everyone in game who did trading had 5 trade guilds there would only be 19,700 people trading at guild traders. Of course not everyone has 5 guild traders, but many do have 3. Which would then limit the amount of individual players who are using guild traders to 32,833.
I often see it promoted that this game is super healthy, making tons of money and has a player base of about 3 million. Divide that 3 million by 4 for PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, and PS and you have 750,000 players per server type on average. This means that roughly 700,000 people will not be allowed to trade at guild traders.
My question is, why limit the amount of people who can buy and sell through guild traders? Why not have a central auction house so the entire player base has a fair chance of selling stuff.
Makes more sense to me.
I see trade guilds looking for members all the time in zone chat so your argument really doesn't hold water. I would like to see the number of traders increased though. I think they should add another trader in all the locations that have only one trader. That would make it more worth while to visit the out of the way places.
My argument is not an argument, its numbers and numbers are facts...but if the numbers are not adding up, then the numbers are wrong.
I agree that Guild traders are looking for members ALL THE TIME, even the most desired trader kiosks.
So what does that mean? Well that can mean two things.
1. Most people do not care to make money in game (which seems out of place in an MMO) as evidence of 90%+ of the player base not being in a trade guild as of them do not need a guild trader.
2. The population is NO WHERE NEAR what is claimed. Ergo the health of the game is NO WHERE NEAR what is claimed.
4 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For some reason ZOS thought it was important to limit the amount of people who can sell through a guild trader to 98,500.
There are 197 Guild Traders in game with 500 member slots each.
197x500=98500 Guild Trader player slots available
except that everyone can be in 5 guilds. I am in 5 trade guilds, so I take 5 of those slots, or 4 extra.
If everyone in game who did trading had 5 trade guilds there would only be 19,700 people trading at guild traders. Of course not everyone has 5 guild traders, but many do have 3. Which would then limit the amount of individual players who are using guild traders to 32,833.
I often see it promoted that this game is super healthy, making tons of money and has a player base of about 3 million. Divide that 3 million by 4 for PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, and PS and you have 750,000 players per server type on average. This means that roughly 700,000 people will not be allowed to trade at guild traders.
My question is, why limit the amount of people who can buy and sell through guild traders? Why not have a central auction house so the entire player base has a fair chance of selling stuff.
Makes more sense to me.
This is a completely ridiculous argument. It can be factually disproven by simply going to guild finder and literally viewing all the empty spots available in dozens of trade guilds. Like it's not even a difference of opinion. It's just completely false and factually disprovable in seconds lol
Actually, there is nothing to dispute, except the 3m player number that is thrown around here on the forums all the time.
I 100% agree that traders are never full and always looking for new players. But then that means that the player base is no where near as healthy as is promoted.3 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.
and I nonstop see in any trade guild Im in, someone asking for mm, price check of anything with help of addons for this
game was made lazy as was made skyrim
devs opened so many possibilities with addons because they didnt know how or was lazy to introduce many QoL for players themselves so they opened way for players to do this job for free for other players which few of things over time get finally introduced into game because game in basics was so **** it was very surprising how people was able to play it outside RP, or casual running through anything special
MM/TTC/ATT has actually caused issues for the game because of how much they scan the data... so ZoS had to throttle down how much they could do as to not destabilize the game.
Consoles (the generation it was launched on) are WAAAY worse performance wise than pretty much any PC that will run this game right now (new generation is much better). The game would not physically run on those older consoles with any of these add-ons running, they simply don't have the processing power.
So it's not a case of the developers being lazy. It's a case of them wanting the game to run on as many machines and platforms as possible, and then players can decide (optionally) if they want to run those add-ons to enhance their gameplay experience. add-ons have a SIGNIFICANT effect on performance, even on high end PCs. Now those of us who have systems that can run this game at 144 fps in it's base form... taking that performance hit to get down to 100 fps is no big deal. But for the stripped down, low-end PCs, and old generation consoles, they would perform so poorly they wouldn't even be able to run the game. (I have a very old laptop that I have put this game on... it barely runs the game. I can basically run Lazy Writ Crafter to do my writs when I don't have my desktop... any other add-ons and the game becomes a slide show)
so lazy or not....this is just showing they dont know how to do even basic things in game so they leave it to some players to make it instead even they themselves could do as official addons, not being in state of out of date for most time
or... they know the things you call "basic" are processor intensive operations and that they would cause the game to be unstable on those low-end PC systems and consoles.
To think that a small group of programmers can come up with ALL Possible things that players would want is naive. They have implemented several add-ons into the game themselves over time, those that all systems could handle! They've even hired some add-on developers to help do that implementation!
yeah and ESO at start was lacking so many basics no any other online game was lacking to begin with
and I know they finally added some basics into game which was before only from addons but all of this looks like they didnt knew it can exist, how add this, how make it work etc, it looked like they needed idea from addons what and how implement some things
I say it looks like this, idk if this is 100% like this but it looks like this only because of no single communicationw thi players for needs like this, not even acknowledgement or info they are looking into it, just silence which is making players think they jsut dont care and they are incompetent
it all looks like this because of their silence to their loud community of players which see many problems and they want situation to get better an yet even when ZOS is working towards this, their silence of not informing by anything important for players is making them look so incompetent, lazy, ignorant towards their playerbase
lack of communication on an Auction House? (if you're talking about other things fine.. but this is a thread on Auction Houses)
They have very, very, very clearly communicated that they have no interest in doing so. There are multiple OFFICIAL responses... summarized here by Varanis
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/6832657/#Comment_6832657
To say there is no communication from ZoS on this issue is a flat out lie.
yeah sorry, with our conversation I went aside of topic and this reply was literally on everything else but AH :vEdited by iksde on January 2, 2021 6:29PM0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For some reason ZOS thought it was important to limit the amount of people who can sell through a guild trader to 98,500.
There are 197 Guild Traders in game with 500 member slots each.
197x500=98500 Guild Trader player slots available
except that everyone can be in 5 guilds. I am in 5 trade guilds, so I take 5 of those slots, or 4 extra.
If everyone in game who did trading had 5 trade guilds there would only be 19,700 people trading at guild traders. Of course not everyone has 5 guild traders, but many do have 3. Which would then limit the amount of individual players who are using guild traders to 32,833.
I often see it promoted that this game is super healthy, making tons of money and has a player base of about 3 million. Divide that 3 million by 4 for PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, and PS and you have 750,000 players per server type on average. This means that roughly 700,000 people will not be allowed to trade at guild traders.
My question is, why limit the amount of people who can buy and sell through guild traders? Why not have a central auction house so the entire player base has a fair chance of selling stuff.
Makes more sense to me.
I see trade guilds looking for members all the time in zone chat so your argument really doesn't hold water. I would like to see the number of traders increased though. I think they should add another trader in all the locations that have only one trader. That would make it more worth while to visit the out of the way places.
My argument is not an argument, its numbers and numbers are facts...but if the numbers are not adding up, then the numbers are wrong.
I agree that Guild traders are looking for members ALL THE TIME, even the most desired trader kiosks.
So what does that mean? Well that can mean two things.
1. Most people do not care to make money in game (which seems out of place in an MMO) as evidence of 90%+ of the player base not being in a trade guild as of them do not need a guild trader.
2. The population is NO WHERE NEAR what is claimed. Ergo the health of the game is NO WHERE NEAR what is claimed.
All online games inflate their numbers by only talking about "accounts" not active accounts (especially if they're a private entity like ZoS)
The only numbers we have are the active steam user count. If maybe 1/3rd of players (1/2 maybe, 1/4th... I don't really know) use steam... then you can double to quadruple that number to get an "estimate" of the number of PCs. ZoS has also stated that the number of players is approximately evenly distributed amongst the platforms, so triple that again (steam counts for both NA and EU) to get a rough idea.
So, with a 30 day steamcharts average of 18,000 or so (peak at 28,000)... you can probably say that there are about 40,000-80,000 highly active, regular players on PC, with another 20,000-40,000 more "weekend warrior" types, for a total somewhere between 60,000-120,000 on PC. So, 30,000-60,000 per server?
Edit: Now, that I think about it more... I should probably have another 2 or 3x multiplier in there to account for players who just simply not online at this time (even if they play 4 - 6 - 8 hours a day) that's only like 1/4th to 1/3rd of the "playtime" in a day.
So, I revise my estimate to be closer to 60-180k per server (and yes, I know this is a wide range with a lot of error, because we simply don't know)Edited by tmbrinks on January 2, 2021 6:44PMThe Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SeaGtGruff wrote: »"There is nothing wrong with the system as it is."
Anyone who says that, if you honestly believe it then why are you having to resort to TTC and MM to help you use "the system as it is" in a useful way?
"The game has a healthy economy."
Translation: The game's economy is healthy for traders, but not necessarily for end-use buyers (meaning buyers who actually use the purchased goods for themselves instead of flipping them to make a profit or using them to craft goods for sale). But who cares about end-use buyers, right?
I don't use TTC and I would not shed a tear if it was completely disabled.
MM keeps track of sales you can see in your own guild history and the prices it shows you will depend on which guilds you are a part of.
But if someone took your MM away, what would you do then?
MM and TTC should be banned or bake them into the game so that console players can take advantage of what the addon/website do for PC.
Both addons dismantle the developer vision of what the Guild Trader system was intended to be.2 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.
and I nonstop see in any trade guild Im in, someone asking for mm, price check of anything with help of addons for this
game was made lazy as was made skyrim
devs opened so many possibilities with addons because they didnt know how or was lazy to introduce many QoL for players themselves so they opened way for players to do this job for free for other players which few of things over time get finally introduced into game because game in basics was so **** it was very surprising how people was able to play it outside RP, or casual running through anything special
MM/TTC/ATT has actually caused issues for the game because of how much they scan the data... so ZoS had to throttle down how much they could do as to not destabilize the game.
Consoles (the generation it was launched on) are WAAAY worse performance wise than pretty much any PC that will run this game right now (new generation is much better). The game would not physically run on those older consoles with any of these add-ons running, they simply don't have the processing power.
So it's not a case of the developers being lazy. It's a case of them wanting the game to run on as many machines and platforms as possible, and then players can decide (optionally) if they want to run those add-ons to enhance their gameplay experience. add-ons have a SIGNIFICANT effect on performance, even on high end PCs. Now those of us who have systems that can run this game at 144 fps in it's base form... taking that performance hit to get down to 100 fps is no big deal. But for the stripped down, low-end PCs, and old generation consoles, they would perform so poorly they wouldn't even be able to run the game. (I have a very old laptop that I have put this game on... it barely runs the game. I can basically run Lazy Writ Crafter to do my writs when I don't have my desktop... any other add-ons and the game becomes a slide show)
so lazy or not....this is just showing they dont know how to do even basic things in game so they leave it to some players to make it instead even they themselves could do as official addons, not being in state of out of date for most time
or... they know the things you call "basic" are processor intensive operations and that they would cause the game to be unstable on those low-end PC systems and consoles.
To think that a small group of programmers can come up with ALL Possible things that players would want is naive. They have implemented several add-ons into the game themselves over time, those that all systems could handle! They've even hired some add-on developers to help do that implementation!
yeah and ESO at start was lacking so many basics no any other online game was lacking to begin with
and I know they finally added some basics into game which was before only from addons but all of this looks like they didnt knew it can exist, how add this, how make it work etc, it looked like they needed idea from addons what and how implement some things
I say it looks like this, idk if this is 100% like this but it looks like this only because of no single communicationw thi players for needs like this, not even acknowledgement or info they are looking into it, just silence which is making players think they jsut dont care and they are incompetent
it all looks like this because of their silence to their loud community of players which see many problems and they want situation to get better an yet even when ZOS is working towards this, their silence of not informing by anything important for players is making them look so incompetent, lazy, ignorant towards their playerbase
Elder Scrolls games have always been very barebones and the PC players were able to create mods to change the game to their liking.
A lot of us came to ESO because of Elder Scrolls games. We had never played an MMO before and we did not care what features they did or didn't have.
That said, Addons can only do what the ESO API lets them do, so the developers did have a notion of what players would like to have in the game if they so chose.
And if certain addons prove to be extremely popular, they have incorporated similar features into the game. Awesome Guild Store, Lazy Writ Crafter and Advanced Filters are a few that come to mind.The Moot Councillor0 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PizzaCat82 wrote: »Some of these arguments are ridiculous. No need to use the traders, you can spam zone chat like the 50 lowball scammers do every day?
Guild traders caters to Role Players? Making things needlessly hard isn't catering to roleplayers, sorry.
And a lot of the arguments for auction house are just as or even more ridiculous.Some are even made up lies!
ESO has had this trading system for many years. It's stable, it works, and is even liked by many for not being yet another auction house.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!1 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.
and I nonstop see in any trade guild Im in, someone asking for mm, price check of anything with help of addons for this
game was made lazy as was made skyrim
devs opened so many possibilities with addons because they didnt know how or was lazy to introduce many QoL for players themselves so they opened way for players to do this job for free for other players which few of things over time get finally introduced into game because game in basics was so **** it was very surprising how people was able to play it outside RP, or casual running through anything special
1) They didnt include a bunch of features in the game, like i said before, so they could keep it light to meet requirements set by Sony and Microsoft to release on their respective systems. This allowed them to put more into the actual game because they have to work inside a certain set of requirements in order to be approved for those systems. Why would they take space with a bunch of UI fluff when they could use that space for a better looking more immersive game?
2) The guild trader system in multitudes harder to put in place, maintain, and balance than a " one and done" auction house.
3) You consider having an AH to be a QoL improvement. It's not. It doesn't matter how you spin it. You are trying to tell me your bike is better than my car for commuting but i commute 25 miles a day and you work at the deli a few blocks down the street. A bike, in the analogy, works for you because you only commute a short distance. It doesn't work for me because it doesn't get me to work in a timely manner.
You see an AH works for you because you might want to do a quick search for an item once in a while( and you wouldn't even have 10% of the selection you do now with traders) and sometimes you might want to toss that purple Rubedo Leather Chest of Health on the AH for 300 gold but it doesnt work for most other players that depend on the trader system to save them time farming items and that use it as a way to make income. The trader system provides many with end game content as well.
ok, with these points you got me and make me aware some more about other things...with 3rd point which is good point it also matter we are not the only ones to have better use bike or car, there can be more people in need to use of car or bike...but also for many it will doesnt matter witch they will ride and some will be unable to ride with car so they will anyway use bike because it is more accessible for anyone than car
but at the end ok, I will ask for something else...as for people unable to drive car, not having capabilities for this and/or no need of use for this car but still in need to get somewhere...how would you be with an global search? so people wont need to rely on addons to find what they want, need and so it would be also better updated than info from addon making literally all spots for trades worth atleast something and something more than being just useless like in outlaws0 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭For some reason ZOS thought it was important to limit the amount of people who can sell through a guild trader to 98,500.
There are 197 Guild Traders in game with 500 member slots each.
197x500=98500 Guild Trader player slots available
except that everyone can be in 5 guilds. I am in 5 trade guilds, so I take 5 of those slots, or 4 extra.
If everyone in game who did trading had 5 trade guilds there would only be 19,700 people trading at guild traders. Of course not everyone has 5 guild traders, but many do have 3. Which would then limit the amount of individual players who are using guild traders to 32,833.
I often see it promoted that this game is super healthy, making tons of money and has a player base of about 3 million. Divide that 3 million by 4 for PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, and PS and you have 750,000 players per server type on average. This means that roughly 700,000 people will not be allowed to trade at guild traders.
My question is, why limit the amount of people who can buy and sell through guild traders? Why not have a central auction house so the entire player base has a fair chance of selling stuff.
Makes more sense to me.
I see trade guilds looking for members all the time in zone chat so your argument really doesn't hold water. I would like to see the number of traders increased though. I think they should add another trader in all the locations that have only one trader. That would make it more worth while to visit the out of the way places.
My argument is not an argument, its numbers and numbers are facts...but if the numbers are not adding up, then the numbers are wrong.
I agree that Guild traders are looking for members ALL THE TIME, even the most desired trader kiosks.
So what does that mean? Well that can mean two things.
1. Most people do not care to make money in game (which seems out of place in an MMO) as evidence of 90%+ of the player base not being in a trade guild as of them do not need a guild trader.
2. The population is NO WHERE NEAR what is claimed. Ergo the health of the game is NO WHERE NEAR what is claimed.
All online games inflate their numbers by only talking about "accounts" not active accounts (especially if they're a private entity like ZoS)
The only numbers we have are the active steam user count. If maybe 1/3rd of players (1/2 maybe, 1/4th... I don't really know) use steam... then you can double to quadruple that number to get an "estimate" of the number of PCs. ZoS has also stated that the number of players is approximately evenly distributed amongst the platforms, so triple that again (steam counts for both NA and EU) to get a rough idea.
So, with a 30 day steamcharts average of 18,000 or so (peak at 28,000)... you can probably say that there are about 40,000-80,000 highly active, regular players on PC, with another 20,000-40,000 more "weekend warrior" types, for a total somewhere between 60,000-120,000 on PC. So, 30,000-60,000 per server?
I would agree with those numbers, which is contrary to what we are told. My issue, I dont like being lied to which seems to be what is happening, not necessarily by ZOS but specific members on these forums who often present themselves as having "inside" information.
The numbers that you indicate, also tells a very strong story as to why the monetization of this game is what it is, with them always trying to have their hands in the players wallet.
Secondly, my concern, is that MMO's who have traditionally dropped below about 300k player base end up shutting down and we seem to be close to that now.
2 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Yet your argument was that these addons are needed for people to be able to use guild traders. They use guild traders and we can say 100% for sure they don't use addons.
You are making assumptions. Also it doesn't matter if we use addons or not. The game was designed to support use of addons. ZOS supports the use of addons. It doesn't matter if i use no addons or 100 addons, a central AH will NEVER happen in this game because to many players will flip a table. As it was said the only people who want a central AH are the ones who don't want to bother to learn to use or put in the effort to use a guild trader.
and I nonstop see in any trade guild Im in, someone asking for mm, price check of anything with help of addons for this
game was made lazy as was made skyrim
devs opened so many possibilities with addons because they didnt know how or was lazy to introduce many QoL for players themselves so they opened way for players to do this job for free for other players which few of things over time get finally introduced into game because game in basics was so **** it was very surprising how people was able to play it outside RP, or casual running through anything special
MM/TTC/ATT has actually caused issues for the game because of how much they scan the data... so ZoS had to throttle down how much they could do as to not destabilize the game.
Consoles (the generation it was launched on) are WAAAY worse performance wise than pretty much any PC that will run this game right now (new generation is much better). The game would not physically run on those older consoles with any of these add-ons running, they simply don't have the processing power.
So it's not a case of the developers being lazy. It's a case of them wanting the game to run on as many machines and platforms as possible, and then players can decide (optionally) if they want to run those add-ons to enhance their gameplay experience. add-ons have a SIGNIFICANT effect on performance, even on high end PCs. Now those of us who have systems that can run this game at 144 fps in it's base form... taking that performance hit to get down to 100 fps is no big deal. But for the stripped down, low-end PCs, and old generation consoles, they would perform so poorly they wouldn't even be able to run the game. (I have a very old laptop that I have put this game on... it barely runs the game. I can basically run Lazy Writ Crafter to do my writs when I don't have my desktop... any other add-ons and the game becomes a slide show)
so lazy or not....this is just showing they dont know how to do even basic things in game so they leave it to some players to make it instead even they themselves could do as official addons, not being in state of out of date for most time
or... they know the things you call "basic" are processor intensive operations and that they would cause the game to be unstable on those low-end PC systems and consoles.
To think that a small group of programmers can come up with ALL Possible things that players would want is naive. They have implemented several add-ons into the game themselves over time, those that all systems could handle! They've even hired some add-on developers to help do that implementation!
yeah and ESO at start was lacking so many basics no any other online game was lacking to begin with
and I know they finally added some basics into game which was before only from addons but all of this looks like they didnt knew it can exist, how add this, how make it work etc, it looked like they needed idea from addons what and how implement some things
I say it looks like this, idk if this is 100% like this but it looks like this only because of no single communicationw thi players for needs like this, not even acknowledgement or info they are looking into it, just silence which is making players think they jsut dont care and they are incompetent
it all looks like this because of their silence to their loud community of players which see many problems and they want situation to get better an yet even when ZOS is working towards this, their silence of not informing by anything important for players is making them look so incompetent, lazy, ignorant towards their playerbase
Elder Scrolls games have always been very barebones and the PC players were able to create mods to change the game to their liking.
A lot of us came to ESO because of Elder Scrolls games. We had never played an MMO before and we did not care what features they did or didn't have.
That said, Addons can only do what the ESO API lets them do, so the developers did have a notion of what players would like to have in the game if they so chose.
And if certain addons prove to be extremely popular, they have incorporated similar features into the game. Awesome Guild Store, Lazy Writ Crafter and Advanced Filters are a few that come to mind.
and in TES games I barely had need to instal mods for better playability, only mods I was installing was just for new things which was great to add or was just missing in game/no need to be as content in game in basics
yet in ESO tons of players use addons just as QoL for better playabilty of this game, for more comfortable playing like playing just our times game, not like something from 20 years ago when everything was not clear, harder or long because of medieval progress0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭For some reason ZOS thought it was important to limit the amount of people who can sell through a guild trader to 98,500.
There are 197 Guild Traders in game with 500 member slots each.
197x500=98500 Guild Trader player slots available
except that everyone can be in 5 guilds. I am in 5 trade guilds, so I take 5 of those slots, or 4 extra.
If everyone in game who did trading had 5 trade guilds there would only be 19,700 people trading at guild traders. Of course not everyone has 5 guild traders, but many do have 3. Which would then limit the amount of individual players who are using guild traders to 32,833.
I often see it promoted that this game is super healthy, making tons of money and has a player base of about 3 million. Divide that 3 million by 4 for PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, and PS and you have 750,000 players per server type on average. This means that roughly 700,000 people will not be allowed to trade at guild traders.
My question is, why limit the amount of people who can buy and sell through guild traders? Why not have a central auction house so the entire player base has a fair chance of selling stuff.
Makes more sense to me.
I see trade guilds looking for members all the time in zone chat so your argument really doesn't hold water. I would like to see the number of traders increased though. I think they should add another trader in all the locations that have only one trader. That would make it more worth while to visit the out of the way places.
My argument is not an argument, its numbers and numbers are facts...but if the numbers are not adding up, then the numbers are wrong.
I agree that Guild traders are looking for members ALL THE TIME, even the most desired trader kiosks.
So what does that mean? Well that can mean two things.
1. Most people do not care to make money in game (which seems out of place in an MMO) as evidence of 90%+ of the player base not being in a trade guild as of them do not need a guild trader.
2. The population is NO WHERE NEAR what is claimed. Ergo the health of the game is NO WHERE NEAR what is claimed.
All online games inflate their numbers by only talking about "accounts" not active accounts (especially if they're a private entity like ZoS)
The only numbers we have are the active steam user count. If maybe 1/3rd of players (1/2 maybe, 1/4th... I don't really know) use steam... then you can double to quadruple that number to get an "estimate" of the number of PCs. ZoS has also stated that the number of players is approximately evenly distributed amongst the platforms, so triple that again (steam counts for both NA and EU) to get a rough idea.
So, with a 30 day steamcharts average of 18,000 or so (peak at 28,000)... you can probably say that there are about 40,000-80,000 highly active, regular players on PC, with another 20,000-40,000 more "weekend warrior" types, for a total somewhere between 60,000-120,000 on PC. So, 30,000-60,000 per server?
I would agree with those numbers, which is contrary to what we are told. My issue, I dont like being lied to which seems to be what is happening, not necessarily by ZOS but specific members on these forums who often present themselves as having "inside" information.
The numbers that you indicate, also tells a very strong story as to why the monetization of this game is what it is, with them always trying to have their hands in the players wallet.
Secondly, my concern, is that MMO's who have traditionally dropped below about 300k player base end up shutting down and we seem to be close to that now.
Now, that I think about it more... I should probably have another 2 or 3x multiplier in there to account for players who just simply not online at this time (even if they play 4 - 6 - 8 hours a day) that's only like 1/4th to 1/3rd of the "playtime" in a day.
So, I revise my estimate to be closer to 60-180k per server (and yes, I know this is a wide range with a lot of error, because we simply don't know)The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points0