Where is the auction house?
-
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only problem with guild trading is you have to join a guild, it doesn't have to be a trading guild to have a trader but it probably does have to be one to be in the best areas.
Anyone can join them, all you have to do is pay your dues or meet their trading requirements. Not generating enough sales? Then you probably don't have enough stuff to justify joining a trade guild in the first place.
Can't be bothered with trading? Why would an auction house be any different? If they are not interested they are not interested.
The system isn't perfect but I can generally get what I want and I like being able to go shopping. I will search most city traders when I'm looking for something. To me and to many others that is also part of the game. And to go to a AH denies us the pleasure of going shopping.
I much prefer going round a lot of small stores than one mega store where everything is. Takes away the chance of a bargain, either to use myself or to resell later, and you find bargains on trade guilds just as often as smaller guilds.
Leave the system alone, it works.2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
so for 2nd point - many player are not inteeressed with trading mingame, they would be happe if they could sell anything even trash without need to be in guild for this...but as this system requires this and having guild trader this is reason why people are not interessed with trading minigame in this game, they have no time for this and they dont wanna to stress by this
for 3rd point...yeah, you can make much gold without selling in trading guilds....but for people about which I explained in to 2nd point...if they dont want to stress, dont have time for being in trade guild so they wont have time to make dailys on all alts just to make more gold without need of care for not being kicked from trade guild
2nd and 3rd point are connected in their way
if player dont have time for doing tons of dailys for gold then they ffor sure wont have time to care to be kept in trade guild only to sell few items per week if not less and so it works in 2nd way
if they dont have time to care, to stress with trade guild then they dont have time, willing to waste their time of playing for doing only dailys just for gold which wont be their fun to do
No, the 2nd point is people who just don't care about selling stuff period. Not that they don't want to join a trade guild to sell. Not that they want an auction house. They just don't want to sell. period.
This game has a large population from the single player Elder Scrolls games. They have zero to no interest in the "MMO" aspects of the game.
They are just as much players in this game as every other one of us.
Are there players that want to trade but not be in a trade guild... I'm certain there are (they've posted in this thread).. but you're talking about a subset (those upset with the trader system) of a subset (those are that interested in the trader system)... so it's likely to be a fairly small population.
paint about people dont care...about people who really jsut dont care because they are doing that much nothing for need for trading and still for people who dont care because for this system
I have meet not only single player and I had few friends with who I was playing, they was playing more casually than me, we was running vet dlc dungs, we was gaining motifs
and here is the best....when we was runnning dungs they was getting for some motifs worth 10k-100k depending on rng and they wasn't interessed with selling them themselves because of this system
theyhad no time, they didnt care to be in trade guild only to be able to sell anything
everytime they asked me f I could list these motifs, items for them as Im in trade guild because I was playing more
they had no a single interrest with trading here because of guidl trade system which force to be in guild and keep reqs to stay and sell things in good price, good time in great spot
if I had no spece for lsiting or if they got jsut to much things to sell....they even didnt ask more, they just kept these items waiting with hope someday they will have use of this like atleast sell if they could, if if remember about them
they could sell some items worth very much but they didn't because they had no interrest and especially no time and willings to stress with this trade system when all they wanted was just to casually play with chill, without any stress about need for stupid reqs for guild to stay in damn spot to sell things for decent price in decent time
anecdotal evidence doesn't apply to everyone in the game.
like just not willing to trade doesn't apply to everyone in game who dont want to trade because of different reasons
and I can say just not willing to trade doesn't apply at all for arguments here because there are also many players who would want to trade but they dont because of this system
And everybody has the choice to interact with the system or not.
I have a friend who does the same thing with me, when he gets valuable items, he sends them to me to sell. But he's not looking to overhaul a core system of the game, which I repeat, has given us a stable economy for 7 YEARS, a HUGE accomplishment in an MMO.
As somebody else has said, and as I linked earlier, in the fact that ZoS has responded to this, they are adamantly AGAINST a central auction house for everybody. They don't want it in the game. This is a dead, desiccated corpse that we are still beating.
So, if you want to convince them otherwise, you're going to have to do much more than some anecdotal evidence that a few people are "shut out" of the system when it still sounds like it's just personal preference. (Seems to me they want the advantages of a "prime" guild trader, but without having to do anything to justify their spot in that trader, such as selling enough, or paying dues, which has already been shown that most dues can be covered by about 10-15 minutes of gameplay).
You need to show that this game NEEDS an auction house to survive... whereas all that has been shown here is that some players WANT an auction house because it would be easier for them.
as everybody have choice for this so many just leave it and are in big disadvantage which for sure doesnt make them to play for more, with more joy
all the way You defend ZOS and what ZOS is saying is just classic ZOS behaviour - instead put most to get more players and be more opened for them You defend what is currently with doesnt matter it can alredy run just on minimum or close minimum to have resources to run
instead to open for more players and make it even greater, maybe and higher profit, for sure it wont be downfall because it would interest much more players
just like crown store.....lets keep it on "most expensive as possible spot" so we can get as much as we can per sell and so do not so much transactions instead of lower it a bit to make it more accessiable for more players....be it same profit if not higher but it will make jot for much more players which alter will spend more money for this if more of them start enjoying it more
naaahhhh....lets just keep it "limited" to some of our rich fanatics who will support us and ignore poor people who could also support us if will give hime more enjoy of product they already paid at all
it is just single example of ZOS work in every aspect of this game as they are to stubborn to agree with anyone else but not with themselves for anything, they wont even try oto gather more worth feedback because they know they would need to agree with players who would want them to change anything from their design to make it more comfortable for more and additional players
This is very different than "classic ZoS behavior". They have CLEARLY communicated about WHY they don't want a classic Auction House in this game. They have given reasons for it. I guess you didn't read any of the links that were posted that I referred to earlier, where they actually stated these things.
They have gathered the feedback, they listened to it, and they decided not to change the system (THANK GOODNESS!) and they explained their reasons for it
and how does the crown store even have anything to do with an auction house in-game? If you have to go to other examples to "make your case", it's not a strong case.
Please read the links that were posted earlier. There has been clear, concise, and direct communication from ZoS about this issue. Yes, you are allowed to suggest a change, but you're going to have to provide a compelling reason for it, and nobody, in the hundreds of "give me an auction house threads" has been able to do so yet. (Not saying it can't happen, it just hasn't yet)
They've all boiled down to two reasons
1. "Other" games have an auction house, so this one should
2. It'd be "easier" for me to sell and find my goods
They haven't been able to address the issues of
1. Bots/Uber-wealthy players being able to corner the market on commonly used goods
2. Gear/BOE items becoming worthless because of the massive competition (thus eliminating even then need for an AH for most players)
3. The elimination of a gameplay style of finding deals and making a profit
4. The replacement of arguably the largest gold-sink in the game (which has kept inflation in check for 7 years)
The "pro-auction house" crowd wants to take away things from a good number of people, from the game's operation and health, with no comparable way to put that back in. All because a subset of a subset of players (or very very casual players) can't have access to the "elite" traders because they can't make the arguably small dues that they charge. (Your example alone was for "friend" who would get motifs to run. Selling a single one of those motifs a week was enough to cover dues in any trader )
I guarantee that adding an auction house with even a 25 or 30% tax would not come close to the gold sink that the current system has. Players will simply bypass the traders all together and sell in zone chat. So what will replace it? Because if you don't take that gold out of the game, inflation will run rampant, and it will cause MAJOR issues.
I understand the appeal of a global auction house. I really do. Nobody has proposed a solution that works to correct these. Do that, and you'll have my attention. I'm a science/math person, I look at the evidence and can come up with my conclusions based on that... But you have to provide that evidence. Period.
The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points2 -
iksde✭✭✭✭The only problem with guild trading is you have to join a guild, it doesn't have to be a trading guild to have a trader but it probably does have to be one to be in the best areas.
Anyone can join them, all you have to do is pay your dues or meet their trading requirements. Not generating enough sales? Then you probably don't have enough stuff to justify joining a trade guild in the first place.
Can't be bothered with trading? Why would an auction house be any different? If they are not interested they are not interested.
yeah it is for many the biggest problem just to be in this damn guild and care about their reqs....
and well yes and no
you need to be in good spot with guild trader to be able to sell items in decent price and time, even just junk
if you want to sell your junk in bad spot....it will be better for you to just vendor it or even destroy/not pickuping instead waiting idk how long till it will sell or selling it close to nothing
people who want to play for fun dont need to grind/do content from which they will have nonstop smoething to sell and worth much
so they wont have reqs for good guild id they doesnt play nonstop to have nonstop something to sell to meet those reqs
and this is reason why many players wont even bother with trading, because what I wrote above....if not problem with good and bad spots and then reqs for guild for sure much more people woult be interessed to sell anything but they cant as this system is to stressfull for chilled, casual playing if you dont want to play trade minigame but just play the game2 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
so for 2nd point - many player are not inteeressed with trading mingame, they would be happe if they could sell anything even trash without need to be in guild for this...but as this system requires this and having guild trader this is reason why people are not interessed with trading minigame in this game, they have no time for this and they dont wanna to stress by this
for 3rd point...yeah, you can make much gold without selling in trading guilds....but for people about which I explained in to 2nd point...if they dont want to stress, dont have time for being in trade guild so they wont have time to make dailys on all alts just to make more gold without need of care for not being kicked from trade guild
2nd and 3rd point are connected in their way
if player dont have time for doing tons of dailys for gold then they ffor sure wont have time to care to be kept in trade guild only to sell few items per week if not less and so it works in 2nd way
if they dont have time to care, to stress with trade guild then they dont have time, willing to waste their time of playing for doing only dailys just for gold which wont be their fun to do
No, the 2nd point is people who just don't care about selling stuff period. Not that they don't want to join a trade guild to sell. Not that they want an auction house. They just don't want to sell. period.
This game has a large population from the single player Elder Scrolls games. They have zero to no interest in the "MMO" aspects of the game.
They are just as much players in this game as every other one of us.
Are there players that want to trade but not be in a trade guild... I'm certain there are (they've posted in this thread).. but you're talking about a subset (those upset with the trader system) of a subset (those are that interested in the trader system)... so it's likely to be a fairly small population.
paint about people dont care...about people who really jsut dont care because they are doing that much nothing for need for trading and still for people who dont care because for this system
I have meet not only single player and I had few friends with who I was playing, they was playing more casually than me, we was running vet dlc dungs, we was gaining motifs
and here is the best....when we was runnning dungs they was getting for some motifs worth 10k-100k depending on rng and they wasn't interessed with selling them themselves because of this system
theyhad no time, they didnt care to be in trade guild only to be able to sell anything
everytime they asked me f I could list these motifs, items for them as Im in trade guild because I was playing more
they had no a single interrest with trading here because of guidl trade system which force to be in guild and keep reqs to stay and sell things in good price, good time in great spot
if I had no spece for lsiting or if they got jsut to much things to sell....they even didnt ask more, they just kept these items waiting with hope someday they will have use of this like atleast sell if they could, if if remember about them
they could sell some items worth very much but they didn't because they had no interrest and especially no time and willings to stress with this trade system when all they wanted was just to casually play with chill, without any stress about need for stupid reqs for guild to stay in damn spot to sell things for decent price in decent time
anecdotal evidence doesn't apply to everyone in the game.
like just not willing to trade doesn't apply to everyone in game who dont want to trade because of different reasons
and I can say just not willing to trade doesn't apply at all for arguments here because there are also many players who would want to trade but they dont because of this system
And everybody has the choice to interact with the system or not.
I have a friend who does the same thing with me, when he gets valuable items, he sends them to me to sell. But he's not looking to overhaul a core system of the game, which I repeat, has given us a stable economy for 7 YEARS, a HUGE accomplishment in an MMO.
As somebody else has said, and as I linked earlier, in the fact that ZoS has responded to this, they are adamantly AGAINST a central auction house for everybody. They don't want it in the game. This is a dead, desiccated corpse that we are still beating.
So, if you want to convince them otherwise, you're going to have to do much more than some anecdotal evidence that a few people are "shut out" of the system when it still sounds like it's just personal preference. (Seems to me they want the advantages of a "prime" guild trader, but without having to do anything to justify their spot in that trader, such as selling enough, or paying dues, which has already been shown that most dues can be covered by about 10-15 minutes of gameplay).
You need to show that this game NEEDS an auction house to survive... whereas all that has been shown here is that some players WANT an auction house because it would be easier for them.
as everybody have choice for this so many just leave it and are in big disadvantage which for sure doesnt make them to play for more, with more joy
all the way You defend ZOS and what ZOS is saying is just classic ZOS behaviour - instead put most to get more players and be more opened for them You defend what is currently with doesnt matter it can alredy run just on minimum or close minimum to have resources to run
instead to open for more players and make it even greater, maybe and higher profit, for sure it wont be downfall because it would interest much more players
just like crown store.....lets keep it on "most expensive as possible spot" so we can get as much as we can per sell and so do not so much transactions instead of lower it a bit to make it more accessiable for more players....be it same profit if not higher but it will make jot for much more players which alter will spend more money for this if more of them start enjoying it more
naaahhhh....lets just keep it "limited" to some of our rich fanatics who will support us and ignore poor people who could also support us if will give hime more enjoy of product they already paid at all
it is just single example of ZOS work in every aspect of this game as they are to stubborn to agree with anyone else but not with themselves for anything, they wont even try oto gather more worth feedback because they know they would need to agree with players who would want them to change anything from their design to make it more comfortable for more and additional players
This is very different than "classic ZoS behavior". They have CLEARLY communicated about WHY they don't want a classic Auction House in this game. They have given reasons for it. I guess you didn't read any of the links that were posted that I referred to earlier, where they actually stated these things.
They have gathered the feedback, they listened to it, and they decided not to change the system (THANK GOODNESS!) and they explained their reasons for it
and how does the crown store even have anything to do with an auction house in-game? If you have to go to other examples to "make your case", it's not a strong case.
Please read the links that were posted earlier. There has been clear, concise, and direct communication from ZoS about this issue. Yes, you are allowed to suggest a change, but you're going to have to provide a compelling reason for it, and nobody, in the hundreds of "give me an auction house threads" has been able to do so yet. (Not saying it can't happen, it just hasn't yet)
They've all boiled down to two reasons
1. "Other" games have an auction house, so this one should
2. It'd be "easier" for me to sell and find my goods
They haven't been able to address the issues of
1. Bots/Uber-wealthy players being able to corner the market on commonly used goods
2. Gear/BOE items becoming worthless because of the massive competition (thus eliminating even then need for an AH for most players)
3. The elimination of a gameplay style of finding deals and making a profit
4. The replacement of arguably the largest gold-sink in the game (which has kept inflation in check for 7 years)
The "pro-auction house" crowd wants to take away things from a good number of people, from the game's operation and health, with no comparable way to put that back in. All because a subset of a subset of players (or very very casual players) can't have access to the "elite" traders because they can't make the arguably small dues that they charge. (Your example alone was for "friend" who would get motifs to run. Selling a single one of those motifs a week was enough to cover dues in any trader )
I guarantee that adding an auction house with even a 25 or 30% tax would not come close to the gold sink that the current system has. Players will simply bypass the traders all together and sell in zone chat. So what will replace it? Because if you don't take that gold out of the game, inflation will run rampant, and it will cause MAJOR issues.
I understand the appeal of a global auction house. I really do. Nobody has proposed a solution that works to correct these. Do that, and you'll have my attention. I'm a science/math person, I look at the evidence and can come up with my conclusions based on that... But you have to provide that evidence. Period.
yea ok, I understand..but after many conversations around this topic I know ZOS doesnt need to make classic AH here
guild trader system wont be uncomfortable for many if we could get atleast tool or npc to search for offers among all traders?
this would also make literally every spot with trader worth
just search in this tool/npc for item you are looking for and he will give you info from what guild or atleast what city/zone if giving to much info like even which trader would be to much
just give info from what zone or outlaw refugee to make bad spots worth and we could list literally every item, junk in worth price and we will know it wont lay for weeks forgotten because nobody is walking in these places to care for them
will be it so bad?3 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
The minimal effort required to join a trade guild with a trader, weeds out the people who are not motivated enough to use a trader but once in a blue moon anyway.yeah it is for many the biggest problem just to be in this damn guild and care about their reqs....
If something is junk to you, why do you think someone else would be interested in it? I dont want to buy your gnawed bones. Not everything is worthy to be on a guild trader.you need to be in good spot with guild trader to be able to sell items in decent price and time, even just junk
if you want to sell your junk in bad spot....it will be better for you to just vendor it or even destroy/not pickuping instead waiting idk how long till it will sell or selling it close to nothing
You can find good guilds with low or no requirements which multiple people have already told you and shown you. But lets play devil's advocate and say guild X requires 100k in sales or 3k in raffle tickets. You only sell 22k this week. What do you do? Buy 3k in raffle tickets. You made 19k profit still and have a chance to win prizes.people who want to play for fun dont need to grind/do content from which they will have nonstop smoething to sell and worth much
so they wont have reqs for good guild id they doesnt play nonstop to have nonstop something to sell to meet those reqs
Nothing about this statement is true.and this is reason why many players wont even bother with trading,
There is nothing about trading that is stressful. All your posts make being a trade guild into a stressful endeavor that is like getting a colonoscopy while getting a root canal while having a full body wax. Join guild, list things for sale, collect mail at some point, list more things for sale at some point. I can fill 30 slots on a guild trader in less than 5 minutes. I can fill a single trader with just normal casual game play. Only when i am trying to keep two traders full at the same time do i have to put a bit of effort into farming. I dont list any junk on traders. It has to be worth more after taxes and fees than what i could get from vendoring it and i have a minimum gold amount i will list items for anything below is vendored or destroyed.this system is to stressfull for chilled, casual playing if you dont want to play trade minigame but just play the gameEdited by Anotherone773 on January 5, 2021 5:03PM2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
so for 2nd point - many player are not inteeressed with trading mingame, they would be happe if they could sell anything even trash without need to be in guild for this...but as this system requires this and having guild trader this is reason why people are not interessed with trading minigame in this game, they have no time for this and they dont wanna to stress by this
for 3rd point...yeah, you can make much gold without selling in trading guilds....but for people about which I explained in to 2nd point...if they dont want to stress, dont have time for being in trade guild so they wont have time to make dailys on all alts just to make more gold without need of care for not being kicked from trade guild
2nd and 3rd point are connected in their way
if player dont have time for doing tons of dailys for gold then they ffor sure wont have time to care to be kept in trade guild only to sell few items per week if not less and so it works in 2nd way
if they dont have time to care, to stress with trade guild then they dont have time, willing to waste their time of playing for doing only dailys just for gold which wont be their fun to do
No, the 2nd point is people who just don't care about selling stuff period. Not that they don't want to join a trade guild to sell. Not that they want an auction house. They just don't want to sell. period.
This game has a large population from the single player Elder Scrolls games. They have zero to no interest in the "MMO" aspects of the game.
They are just as much players in this game as every other one of us.
Are there players that want to trade but not be in a trade guild... I'm certain there are (they've posted in this thread).. but you're talking about a subset (those upset with the trader system) of a subset (those are that interested in the trader system)... so it's likely to be a fairly small population.
paint about people dont care...about people who really jsut dont care because they are doing that much nothing for need for trading and still for people who dont care because for this system
I have meet not only single player and I had few friends with who I was playing, they was playing more casually than me, we was running vet dlc dungs, we was gaining motifs
and here is the best....when we was runnning dungs they was getting for some motifs worth 10k-100k depending on rng and they wasn't interessed with selling them themselves because of this system
theyhad no time, they didnt care to be in trade guild only to be able to sell anything
everytime they asked me f I could list these motifs, items for them as Im in trade guild because I was playing more
they had no a single interrest with trading here because of guidl trade system which force to be in guild and keep reqs to stay and sell things in good price, good time in great spot
if I had no spece for lsiting or if they got jsut to much things to sell....they even didnt ask more, they just kept these items waiting with hope someday they will have use of this like atleast sell if they could, if if remember about them
they could sell some items worth very much but they didn't because they had no interrest and especially no time and willings to stress with this trade system when all they wanted was just to casually play with chill, without any stress about need for stupid reqs for guild to stay in damn spot to sell things for decent price in decent time
anecdotal evidence doesn't apply to everyone in the game.
like just not willing to trade doesn't apply to everyone in game who dont want to trade because of different reasons
and I can say just not willing to trade doesn't apply at all for arguments here because there are also many players who would want to trade but they dont because of this system
And everybody has the choice to interact with the system or not.
I have a friend who does the same thing with me, when he gets valuable items, he sends them to me to sell. But he's not looking to overhaul a core system of the game, which I repeat, has given us a stable economy for 7 YEARS, a HUGE accomplishment in an MMO.
As somebody else has said, and as I linked earlier, in the fact that ZoS has responded to this, they are adamantly AGAINST a central auction house for everybody. They don't want it in the game. This is a dead, desiccated corpse that we are still beating.
So, if you want to convince them otherwise, you're going to have to do much more than some anecdotal evidence that a few people are "shut out" of the system when it still sounds like it's just personal preference. (Seems to me they want the advantages of a "prime" guild trader, but without having to do anything to justify their spot in that trader, such as selling enough, or paying dues, which has already been shown that most dues can be covered by about 10-15 minutes of gameplay).
You need to show that this game NEEDS an auction house to survive... whereas all that has been shown here is that some players WANT an auction house because it would be easier for them.
as everybody have choice for this so many just leave it and are in big disadvantage which for sure doesnt make them to play for more, with more joy
all the way You defend ZOS and what ZOS is saying is just classic ZOS behaviour - instead put most to get more players and be more opened for them You defend what is currently with doesnt matter it can alredy run just on minimum or close minimum to have resources to run
instead to open for more players and make it even greater, maybe and higher profit, for sure it wont be downfall because it would interest much more players
just like crown store.....lets keep it on "most expensive as possible spot" so we can get as much as we can per sell and so do not so much transactions instead of lower it a bit to make it more accessiable for more players....be it same profit if not higher but it will make jot for much more players which alter will spend more money for this if more of them start enjoying it more
naaahhhh....lets just keep it "limited" to some of our rich fanatics who will support us and ignore poor people who could also support us if will give hime more enjoy of product they already paid at all
it is just single example of ZOS work in every aspect of this game as they are to stubborn to agree with anyone else but not with themselves for anything, they wont even try oto gather more worth feedback because they know they would need to agree with players who would want them to change anything from their design to make it more comfortable for more and additional players
This is very different than "classic ZoS behavior". They have CLEARLY communicated about WHY they don't want a classic Auction House in this game. They have given reasons for it. I guess you didn't read any of the links that were posted that I referred to earlier, where they actually stated these things.
They have gathered the feedback, they listened to it, and they decided not to change the system (THANK GOODNESS!) and they explained their reasons for it
and how does the crown store even have anything to do with an auction house in-game? If you have to go to other examples to "make your case", it's not a strong case.
Please read the links that were posted earlier. There has been clear, concise, and direct communication from ZoS about this issue. Yes, you are allowed to suggest a change, but you're going to have to provide a compelling reason for it, and nobody, in the hundreds of "give me an auction house threads" has been able to do so yet. (Not saying it can't happen, it just hasn't yet)
They've all boiled down to two reasons
1. "Other" games have an auction house, so this one should
2. It'd be "easier" for me to sell and find my goods
They haven't been able to address the issues of
1. Bots/Uber-wealthy players being able to corner the market on commonly used goods
2. Gear/BOE items becoming worthless because of the massive competition (thus eliminating even then need for an AH for most players)
3. The elimination of a gameplay style of finding deals and making a profit
4. The replacement of arguably the largest gold-sink in the game (which has kept inflation in check for 7 years)
The "pro-auction house" crowd wants to take away things from a good number of people, from the game's operation and health, with no comparable way to put that back in. All because a subset of a subset of players (or very very casual players) can't have access to the "elite" traders because they can't make the arguably small dues that they charge. (Your example alone was for "friend" who would get motifs to run. Selling a single one of those motifs a week was enough to cover dues in any trader )
I guarantee that adding an auction house with even a 25 or 30% tax would not come close to the gold sink that the current system has. Players will simply bypass the traders all together and sell in zone chat. So what will replace it? Because if you don't take that gold out of the game, inflation will run rampant, and it will cause MAJOR issues.
I understand the appeal of a global auction house. I really do. Nobody has proposed a solution that works to correct these. Do that, and you'll have my attention. I'm a science/math person, I look at the evidence and can come up with my conclusions based on that... But you have to provide that evidence. Period.
yea ok, I understand..but after many conversations around this topic I know ZOS doesnt need to make classic AH here
guild trader system wont be uncomfortable for many if we could get atleast tool or npc to search for offers among all traders?
this would also make literally every spot with trader worth
just search in this tool/npc for item you are looking for and he will give you info from what guild or atleast what city/zone if giving to much info like even which trader would be to much
just give info from what zone or outlaw refugee to make bad spots worth and we could list literally every item, junk in worth price and we will know it wont lay for weeks forgotten because nobody is walking in these places to care for them
will be it so bad?
If every trader is "worth it" because of a fully searchable inventory (even if you still have to go to the kiosk to buy it), then the value of each trader goes down. This would lower the cost to buy a trader, thus removing a major gold sink from the game.
What do you propose to replace that?
(Also, as somebody else said, nobody wants to buy your junk, the reason the "good" traders move a lot of products is that they are selling things that players want. Nobody cares about your level 34 green gloves of health, just vendor or deconstruct!)The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭@iksde
Let me see if I understand your reply to me correctly, I appreciate English isn't your first language and so I struggle to understand some of what you are saying.
1. You have to be in a prime trading spot to sell stuff. Rubbish, my social guild has a trader every week and we make good money from it and it is not in a prime spot. I find somethings sell better on my social guilds trader than on my two big trade guilds. Motifs for instance that go for 4 - 5k sell better out of town than in town. You may ne correct about big ticket items but if you have them yoi are going to sell through a big trader anyway.
2. I don't grind but have plenty of stuff to sell through my guild traders, and always have enough to replace what I sell. I accept i am not a casual player though. And as I spend a lot of my play time doing dungeons and trials I don't actually have much time to get other stuff.
So what you are spouting is actually incorrect on both counts. You do not have to be in a big guild to make reasonable sales and yoi don't have to grind to have stuff to sell, and please note I do not sell materials generally nor do I sell armour sets, either overland or crafted, as I have no trouble filling my slots with what I pick up from urns, backpacks, treasure chests, and writ boxes.
And you failed to even mention my other pleasure, that of guild trader shopping. You would be surprised know that some of us like shopping round the traders and your AH wpuld take that away from us. Your argument about the need for an AH totally fails to take into account the players that enjoy shopping around the traders.
For instance I was after a deadly axe and dagger, I found the axe on a main trader for 2k rather than the more normal 100k, I was able to get it and save a lot of gold. Had there been a AH I would have been denied that as a bot would already have picked it up and relisted it for 100k.
Guild traders work for both buyers and sellers if you are prepared to put a little bit of time into them.2 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
The minimal effort required to join a trade guild with a trader, weeds out the people who are not motivated enough to use a trader but once in a blue moon anyway.yeah it is for many the biggest problem just to be in this damn guild and care about their reqs....
If something is junk to you, why do you think someone else would be interested in it? I dont want to buy your gnawed bones. Not everything is worthy to be on a guild trader.you need to be in good spot with guild trader to be able to sell items in decent price and time, even just junk
if you want to sell your junk in bad spot....it will be better for you to just vendor it or even destroy/not pickuping instead waiting idk how long till it will sell or selling it close to nothing
You can find good guilds with low or no requirements which multiple people have already told you and shown you. But lets play devil's advocate and say guild X requires 100k in sales or 3k in raffle tickets. You only sell 22k this week. What do you do? Buy 3k in raffle tickets. You made 19k profit still and have a chance to win prizes.people who want to play for fun dont need to grind/do content from which they will have nonstop smoething to sell and worth much
so they wont have reqs for good guild id they doesnt play nonstop to have nonstop something to sell to meet those reqs
Nothing about this statement is true.and this is reason why many players wont even bother with trading,
There is nothing about trading that is stressful. All your posts make being a trade guild into a stressful endeavor that is like getting a colonoscopy while getting a root canal while having a full body wax. Join guild, list things for sale, collect mail at some point, list more things for sale at some point. I can fill 30 slots on a guild trader in less than 5 minutes. I can fill a single trader with just normal casual game play. Only when i am trying to keep two traders full at the same time do i have to put a bit of effort into farming. I dont list any junk on traders. It has to be worth more after taxes and fees than what i could get from vendoring it and i have a minimum gold amount i will list items for anything below is vendored or destroyed.this system is to stressfull for chilled, casual playing if you dont want to play trade minigame but just play the game
everytime I write about good guild, not in crap spots
and Im talking about EU as I saw someone was before arguing with me with almost no reqs in any guild on NA server while on eu I have even screens showing it isn't something rare to have even 300k minimum sales weekly in good spots
junk items mainly yes are junk.....but still people for something are buying them, if people are listing it then others need to buy for something, now we got sticerbook but even before people was buying these junk items for themselves for their reason
cheap, 500 gold maybe, 250? cause it is junk so it cheap, if it is cheap then people will buy it without thinking if they want it for something
now people dont even list these junks, nor cheap because it is not worth for them to lsit something so cheap and wait weeks to sell it because lets say they have trader in outlaw refugee
and yes trading here is stressfull if you are in better guild and you dont want to be kicked becasue you like this guild for effectivness of sales but yet you dont gain enough items, worth of them for weekly reqs
and in any better guilds I was lately I cant even remember rafle tickets as for weakly due if you didnt meet weekly sales...you need to just pay atleast 5k, 10k depending on guild which wont be small amount if you are doing maybe 50k weekaly2 -
iksde✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
1. Occam's Razor is that "All things being equal, the simplest explanation is the correct one" This is not a simple explanation.
2. There is most likely a very sizable portion of the playerbase that has no interest in the trading guild game to begin with. If that's a third to half of the playerbase (a reasonable assumption), that changes the calculus quite a bit.
3. making gold in this game does not require the use of a trading guild. I can make 1.5 million gold a month just doing daily writs, without selling a thing I get. I can sell in zone. I can kill mobs over and over and just grind gold that way. I can sell crowns.
so for 2nd point - many player are not inteeressed with trading mingame, they would be happe if they could sell anything even trash without need to be in guild for this...but as this system requires this and having guild trader this is reason why people are not interessed with trading minigame in this game, they have no time for this and they dont wanna to stress by this
for 3rd point...yeah, you can make much gold without selling in trading guilds....but for people about which I explained in to 2nd point...if they dont want to stress, dont have time for being in trade guild so they wont have time to make dailys on all alts just to make more gold without need of care for not being kicked from trade guild
2nd and 3rd point are connected in their way
if player dont have time for doing tons of dailys for gold then they ffor sure wont have time to care to be kept in trade guild only to sell few items per week if not less and so it works in 2nd way
if they dont have time to care, to stress with trade guild then they dont have time, willing to waste their time of playing for doing only dailys just for gold which wont be their fun to do
No, the 2nd point is people who just don't care about selling stuff period. Not that they don't want to join a trade guild to sell. Not that they want an auction house. They just don't want to sell. period.
This game has a large population from the single player Elder Scrolls games. They have zero to no interest in the "MMO" aspects of the game.
They are just as much players in this game as every other one of us.
Are there players that want to trade but not be in a trade guild... I'm certain there are (they've posted in this thread).. but you're talking about a subset (those upset with the trader system) of a subset (those are that interested in the trader system)... so it's likely to be a fairly small population.
paint about people dont care...about people who really jsut dont care because they are doing that much nothing for need for trading and still for people who dont care because for this system
I have meet not only single player and I had few friends with who I was playing, they was playing more casually than me, we was running vet dlc dungs, we was gaining motifs
and here is the best....when we was runnning dungs they was getting for some motifs worth 10k-100k depending on rng and they wasn't interessed with selling them themselves because of this system
theyhad no time, they didnt care to be in trade guild only to be able to sell anything
everytime they asked me f I could list these motifs, items for them as Im in trade guild because I was playing more
they had no a single interrest with trading here because of guidl trade system which force to be in guild and keep reqs to stay and sell things in good price, good time in great spot
if I had no spece for lsiting or if they got jsut to much things to sell....they even didnt ask more, they just kept these items waiting with hope someday they will have use of this like atleast sell if they could, if if remember about them
they could sell some items worth very much but they didn't because they had no interrest and especially no time and willings to stress with this trade system when all they wanted was just to casually play with chill, without any stress about need for stupid reqs for guild to stay in damn spot to sell things for decent price in decent time
anecdotal evidence doesn't apply to everyone in the game.
like just not willing to trade doesn't apply to everyone in game who dont want to trade because of different reasons
and I can say just not willing to trade doesn't apply at all for arguments here because there are also many players who would want to trade but they dont because of this system
And everybody has the choice to interact with the system or not.
I have a friend who does the same thing with me, when he gets valuable items, he sends them to me to sell. But he's not looking to overhaul a core system of the game, which I repeat, has given us a stable economy for 7 YEARS, a HUGE accomplishment in an MMO.
As somebody else has said, and as I linked earlier, in the fact that ZoS has responded to this, they are adamantly AGAINST a central auction house for everybody. They don't want it in the game. This is a dead, desiccated corpse that we are still beating.
So, if you want to convince them otherwise, you're going to have to do much more than some anecdotal evidence that a few people are "shut out" of the system when it still sounds like it's just personal preference. (Seems to me they want the advantages of a "prime" guild trader, but without having to do anything to justify their spot in that trader, such as selling enough, or paying dues, which has already been shown that most dues can be covered by about 10-15 minutes of gameplay).
You need to show that this game NEEDS an auction house to survive... whereas all that has been shown here is that some players WANT an auction house because it would be easier for them.
as everybody have choice for this so many just leave it and are in big disadvantage which for sure doesnt make them to play for more, with more joy
all the way You defend ZOS and what ZOS is saying is just classic ZOS behaviour - instead put most to get more players and be more opened for them You defend what is currently with doesnt matter it can alredy run just on minimum or close minimum to have resources to run
instead to open for more players and make it even greater, maybe and higher profit, for sure it wont be downfall because it would interest much more players
just like crown store.....lets keep it on "most expensive as possible spot" so we can get as much as we can per sell and so do not so much transactions instead of lower it a bit to make it more accessiable for more players....be it same profit if not higher but it will make jot for much more players which alter will spend more money for this if more of them start enjoying it more
naaahhhh....lets just keep it "limited" to some of our rich fanatics who will support us and ignore poor people who could also support us if will give hime more enjoy of product they already paid at all
it is just single example of ZOS work in every aspect of this game as they are to stubborn to agree with anyone else but not with themselves for anything, they wont even try oto gather more worth feedback because they know they would need to agree with players who would want them to change anything from their design to make it more comfortable for more and additional players
This is very different than "classic ZoS behavior". They have CLEARLY communicated about WHY they don't want a classic Auction House in this game. They have given reasons for it. I guess you didn't read any of the links that were posted that I referred to earlier, where they actually stated these things.
They have gathered the feedback, they listened to it, and they decided not to change the system (THANK GOODNESS!) and they explained their reasons for it
and how does the crown store even have anything to do with an auction house in-game? If you have to go to other examples to "make your case", it's not a strong case.
Please read the links that were posted earlier. There has been clear, concise, and direct communication from ZoS about this issue. Yes, you are allowed to suggest a change, but you're going to have to provide a compelling reason for it, and nobody, in the hundreds of "give me an auction house threads" has been able to do so yet. (Not saying it can't happen, it just hasn't yet)
They've all boiled down to two reasons
1. "Other" games have an auction house, so this one should
2. It'd be "easier" for me to sell and find my goods
They haven't been able to address the issues of
1. Bots/Uber-wealthy players being able to corner the market on commonly used goods
2. Gear/BOE items becoming worthless because of the massive competition (thus eliminating even then need for an AH for most players)
3. The elimination of a gameplay style of finding deals and making a profit
4. The replacement of arguably the largest gold-sink in the game (which has kept inflation in check for 7 years)
The "pro-auction house" crowd wants to take away things from a good number of people, from the game's operation and health, with no comparable way to put that back in. All because a subset of a subset of players (or very very casual players) can't have access to the "elite" traders because they can't make the arguably small dues that they charge. (Your example alone was for "friend" who would get motifs to run. Selling a single one of those motifs a week was enough to cover dues in any trader )
I guarantee that adding an auction house with even a 25 or 30% tax would not come close to the gold sink that the current system has. Players will simply bypass the traders all together and sell in zone chat. So what will replace it? Because if you don't take that gold out of the game, inflation will run rampant, and it will cause MAJOR issues.
I understand the appeal of a global auction house. I really do. Nobody has proposed a solution that works to correct these. Do that, and you'll have my attention. I'm a science/math person, I look at the evidence and can come up with my conclusions based on that... But you have to provide that evidence. Period.
yea ok, I understand..but after many conversations around this topic I know ZOS doesnt need to make classic AH here
guild trader system wont be uncomfortable for many if we could get atleast tool or npc to search for offers among all traders?
this would also make literally every spot with trader worth
just search in this tool/npc for item you are looking for and he will give you info from what guild or atleast what city/zone if giving to much info like even which trader would be to much
just give info from what zone or outlaw refugee to make bad spots worth and we could list literally every item, junk in worth price and we will know it wont lay for weeks forgotten because nobody is walking in these places to care for them
will be it so bad?
If every trader is "worth it" because of a fully searchable inventory (even if you still have to go to the kiosk to buy it), then the value of each trader goes down. This would lower the cost to buy a trader, thus removing a major gold sink from the game.
What do you propose to replace that?
(Also, as somebody else said, nobody wants to buy your junk, the reason the "good" traders move a lot of products is that they are selling things that players want. Nobody cares about your level 34 green gloves of health, just vendor or deconstruct!)
and nobody said junk need to be useless for most it is junktbut for some it can have use
and as I was saying it earlier...tax from basics could be raised even not into 10% from 7% while still keeping only 3.5% for guild and rest for gold sink if not more as currently, already is to much gold in game2 -
iksde✭✭✭✭@iksde
Let me see if I understand your reply to me correctly, I appreciate English isn't your first language and so I struggle to understand some of what you are saying.
1. You have to be in a prime trading spot to sell stuff. Rubbish, my social guild has a trader every week and we make good money from it and it is not in a prime spot. I find somethings sell better on my social guilds trader than on my two big trade guilds. Motifs for instance that go for 4 - 5k sell better out of town than in town. You may ne correct about big ticket items but if you have them yoi are going to sell through a big trader anyway.
2. I don't grind but have plenty of stuff to sell through my guild traders, and always have enough to replace what I sell. I accept i am not a casual player though. And as I spend a lot of my play time doing dungeons and trials I don't actually have much time to get other stuff.
So what you are spouting is actually incorrect on both counts. You do not have to be in a big guild to make reasonable sales and yoi don't have to grind to have stuff to sell, and please note I do not sell materials generally nor do I sell armour sets, either overland or crafted, as I have no trouble filling my slots with what I pick up from urns, backpacks, treasure chests, and writ boxes.
And you failed to even mention my other pleasure, that of guild trader shopping. You would be surprised know that some of us like shopping round the traders and your AH wpuld take that away from us. Your argument about the need for an AH totally fails to take into account the players that enjoy shopping around the traders.
For instance I was after a deadly axe and dagger, I found the axe on a main trader for 2k rather than the more normal 100k, I was able to get it and save a lot of gold. Had there been a AH I would have been denied that as a bot would already have picked it up and relisted it for 100k.
Guild traders work for both buyers and sellers if you are prepared to put a little bit of time into them.
ye english isn't my best, ty for understanding
and for hat You was answearing I think you got my main point
1. over years of playing I barely had exceptions where in side spots I had better sales for something than in top spots
2. so and other dont need to grind..they jsut play game and sometimes they got valuable drop or thy are getting them often but the play less to got weekly sales reqs in good spots
and no it is/Im not incorrect/not working for both ways
while people like You like this sytem there are also who dont like it by being to much possible places with traders
as people was stating, especially form consoles they dont care what other zones are, have, all where they go is only main hubs with pledges with maybe addition of craglorn/reapers march/vivec city and they dont care to check for anything any other place with traders as they ahve no illing to waste their time for so many possible traders, have no time for this, it is unfun for them to look for single item throught dozens of loading screens and just checking single traders if they got that item or not just to found later they jsut wasted time not finding anything they was looking for after so much time2 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'd just like to clear something up here i play on console. I don't limit myself to main traders, I enjoy the hunt0 -
NotaDaedraWorshipper✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
everytime I write about good guild, not in crap spots
and Im talking about EU as I saw someone was before arguing with me with almost no reqs in any guild on NA server while on eu I have even screens showing it isn't something rare to have even 300k minimum sales weekly in good spots
As someone from the EU server I can also say that you're telling lies. No, it's not hard join a guild here with a decent or good trader without ridiculous requirements.[Lie] Of course! I don't even worship Daedra!0 -
iksde✭✭✭✭NotaDaedraWorshipper wrote: »
everytime I write about good guild, not in crap spots
and Im talking about EU as I saw someone was before arguing with me with almost no reqs in any guild on NA server while on eu I have even screens showing it isn't something rare to have even 300k minimum sales weekly in good spots
As someone from the EU server I can also say that you're telling lies. No, it's not hard join a guild here with a decent or good trader without ridiculous requirements.
do I sayd somewhere it is hard to join? no, it is hard to keep reqs if you dont play play regularly or you just dont play around trading minigame and/or dont use addons to be informed what, where and for how much
point me where I wrote it is hard to join to good guild2 -
AlienMagi✭✭✭Can we just get a npc for central auction house? The amount of time it takes to search for things on TTC and actually find them is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that you're required to use 3rd party software (TTC) just to be able to trade normally.
We are literally wasting hours of our life every day/week by not having a central auction house NPC. There is absolutely no reason not to have one.3 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Can we just get a npc for central auction house? The amount of time it takes to search for things on TTC and actually find them is ridiculous. Not to mention the fact that you're required to use 3rd party software (TTC) just to be able to trade normally.
We are literally wasting hours of our life every day/week by not having a central auction house NPC. There is absolutely no reason not to have one.
There have been dozens of reasons given (many of them by ZoS themselves).The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points3 -
ZOS_GregoryVmodGreetings all,
After review, we would like to remind everyone that all posts should be kept civil, constructive, and within the Community Guidelines. One thing we would like to point out is Flaming. Flaming is a violation of the rules and is stated as follows:- Flaming: It’s okay to disagree and debate on the official ESO forums, but we do ask that you keep all disagreements civil, constructive, and on-topic. If a discussion gets heated and turns into a debate, remember that you should stick to debating the post and/or thread topic. It is never appropriate to resort to personal comments or jabs about those participating in the thread discussion.
Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site0 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
I might believe there is a problem, if there weren't so many guilds that aren't full. You're also not noting the guilds where the members don't want a guild trader, don't try for one, and really don't care. There might be limited spaces for people who want to play Elder Traders Online, and make several million gold every day. For normal players, casuals, who want to sell some items some times when they feel like it, there are a lot of guilds that have openings.
Gosh. I don't know whether I should be pleased or worried. Once I actually joined a no-dues, no-required sales quota trading guild, and made an effort every few weeks to sell tempers and flowers, I started to get gold. So far slightly under 4 million on one account. Gee its awful how the trading system doesn't allow people to make gold..... /sarcasm2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
I might believe there is a problem, if there weren't so many guilds that aren't full. You're also not noting the guilds where the members don't want a guild trader, don't try for one, and really don't care. There might be limited spaces for people who want to play Elder Traders Online, and make several million gold every day. For normal players, casuals, who want to sell some items some times when they feel like it, there are a lot of guilds that have openings.
Gosh. I don't know whether I should be pleased or worried. Once I actually joined a no-dues, no-required sales quota trading guild, and made an effort every few weeks to sell tempers and flowers, I started to get gold. So far slightly under 4 million on one account. Gee its awful how the trading system doesn't allow people to make gold..... /sarcasm
I am not following your points. I simply stated that ZOS has an small and fixed limit on how many people can make gold in this game through a guild trader, and that number is below 100,000 which is not a lot. I mean consider that. We are not talking about sub 100k per each 250+ servers like WOW, we are talking sub 100k for the ENTIRETY of the PCNA server, sub 100k for the ENTIRETY of the PCEU server, sub 100k for the ENTIRETY of the XBOX server and sub 100K for the ENTIRETY of the Playstation server. Where as people in MMORPG's who use a central auction house allow for every single player to sell in the same market, at the same cost. Its fair for everyone, this game is not, especially if we believe that there are over 3 million players currently in ESO. ZOS has said that the player base is roughly the same for each server. This would be around 750k for each server. This means that 650,000 people are not able to sell through a guild trader.
But I agree that every guild trader is looking to fill their ranks, and always have been. So are we now suggesting that 650,000 player do not need guild traders to make their gold? Or that the player base is no where near that number?
I am just asking questions.2 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »
I have no doubt that the amount of people who have an account for ESO are in the millions. That doesn't mean they are active.
The fact that not even 100,000 people can sell at a guild trader, and then the fact that every guild trader in game is always looking to fill their empty slots is an extremely strong indication that the player base is NO WHERE NEAR the millions that are always thrown around on the forums. In fact I would argue the player base is sub 500k across ALL platforms.
But something we can look at is the Steam Charts for ESO. If we take the average players logged in( at once) for the last 30 days, that number is 18,334. We could then, conservatively, assume that the population of unique players turns over about every 4 hours( We are assuming all players play for 4 hours a day with this). This means in a 24 hour day, the population of unique players turns over 6 times. So we multiple 6 x 18,334 (the average player count logged in at a time) = That is 110,004 unique players in a 24 hour period.
Now that is just on a single platform. But it is also only Steam players on that platform. The general consensus is that non-Steam players make up at least 50% of the player population on PC. When there were issues with Steam login compared to a different incident with PC NA or PC EU server being down, i would say, based on response here on the forums, that it is more likely that Non Steam players are 3x to 5x higher than Steam players. We will go with 50% though and that effectively doubles the PC population unique logins for a day to 220k.
Lets assume that the PS and Xbox populations are exactly half of the PC populations. Together they effectively double the number of unique logins to 440k. We have now almost hit your 500k mark, very conservatively, just by using the unique logins for a single day.
Most people don't play every day, but lets say half of the population plays every day. Because we only took a snapshot of a single day, we missed half of the population who didn't play today but will play tomorrow. We doubled that again to 880k active players.
Like i said all of these figures are conservative estimates. Depending on what you consider an active player, the numbers can easily hit the multi-millions. Companies mostly operate on a 30 day cycle, so to be considered an active player, a player would have to log in and play at least once a month. While most players have a weekly routine, so by player standards you would have to play for at least a couple of hours a week to be considered active.
I completely disagree with your numbers. But lets say you are right and ESO has 880k players, are you then suggesting that ZOS intends to limit the ability for folks to trade at a guild trader to only 50% of the population? There are 98500 TOTAL available slots for players to sell through guild stores. As I already stated, many people have more than one trader, I have 5. If the average for players who are in trade guilds was averaged to 2 per player (which is an extremely conservative number), then what you are suggesting is that ZOS only has 49,250 available guild trade slots for 220,000 players? If this is true then ZOS is limiting the amount of people who can trade in game to only 25% of the population, based on your numbers.
Going back to Occam's Razor what makes more sense.
• ZOS intentionally limits the ability to make gold in game to 25% of the player base, and does not document this to prospective ESO customers?
• ZOS does not expect the player base to go much over 100k on any of the 4 main servers PCNA, PCEU, XBOX, PS.
I might believe there is a problem, if there weren't so many guilds that aren't full. You're also not noting the guilds where the members don't want a guild trader, don't try for one, and really don't care. There might be limited spaces for people who want to play Elder Traders Online, and make several million gold every day. For normal players, casuals, who want to sell some items some times when they feel like it, there are a lot of guilds that have openings.
Gosh. I don't know whether I should be pleased or worried. Once I actually joined a no-dues, no-required sales quota trading guild, and made an effort every few weeks to sell tempers and flowers, I started to get gold. So far slightly under 4 million on one account. Gee its awful how the trading system doesn't allow people to make gold..... /sarcasm
I am not following your points. I simply stated that ZOS has an small and fixed limit on how many people can make gold in this game through a guild trader, and that number is below 100,000 which is not a lot. I mean consider that. We are not talking about sub 100k per each 250+ servers like WOW, we are talking sub 100k for the ENTIRETY of the PCNA server, sub 100k for the ENTIRETY of the PCEU server, sub 100k for the ENTIRETY of the XBOX server and sub 100K for the ENTIRETY of the Playstation server. Where as people in MMORPG's who use a central auction house allow for every single player to sell in the same market, at the same cost. Its fair for everyone, this game is not, especially if we believe that there are over 3 million players currently in ESO. ZOS has said that the player base is roughly the same for each server. This would be around 750k for each server. This means that 650,000 people are not able to sell through a guild trader.
But I agree that every guild trader is looking to fill their ranks, and always have been. So are we now suggesting that 650,000 player do not need guild traders to make their gold? Or that the player base is no where near that number?
I am just asking questions.
Just FYI... 3 million divided by 6 is 500k (not 750k) and not every player even wants to participate. (I also think the 3 million is an over estimation of the player base, as that may include players who log on once or twice a month, or just when new DLCs are released for the story)
Let's say it's actually 2 million. Divided by 6 is 333k per server. If half the players don't want to participate in the trade guilds at all... that's 166k players. There are (according to you) ~100k spots (which are definitely not full) There needs to be some competition for guild trader stalls, otherwise the gold sink won't work as well as it does. Do you see how we get at least close to that 100k being a "sweet spot" ZoS also adds 5 or 6 new guild traders with every expansion, so that's an extra 2500-3000 twice a year!
I think we're okay on the numbers, even using a 2 million active player estimate, which would indicate a very healthy playerbase. And getting that number by realizing that the company is going to overestimate their players (to make them look good)The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger69,420 achievement points1 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS, why don’t you make a central listing house for console players. Since it seems that most PC player don’t want it due to add-ons and the ability to more easily cheat the system with the use of bots if a auction house was used.
This would not be the first time something was built for console and not PC community i.e. voice/text chat. A central listing house would make a huge difference for console players since it would take a long time to go look at 200 trading spots.
With a central listing center, we could go see where something is at then travel the trader to buy it. Also be easier to research prices to learn what to list our on items for of on some of the more rare and unique items.
Stay safe and have fun 2 -
Raideen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
1. PCNA
Just FYI... 3 million divided by 6 is 500k (not 750k) and not every player even wants to participate. (I also think the 3 million is an over estimation of the player base, as that may include players who log on once or twice a month, or just when new DLCs are released for the story)
2. PCEU
3. XBOX
4. Playstation
Ok, so when these people say "3 million", they are lying/over exaggerating.
What are the other two servers? I am dividing by 4, by the servers listed above. Are there separate EU servers for Xbox and PS?Let's say it's actually 2 million. Divided by 6 is 333k per server. If half the players don't want to participate in the trade guilds at all... that's 166k players. There are (according to you) ~100k spots (which are definitely not full) There needs to be some competition for guild trader stalls, otherwise the gold sink won't work as well as it does. Do you see how we get at least close to that 100k being a "sweet spot" ZoS also adds 5 or 6 new guild traders with every expansion, so that's an extra 2500-3000 twice a year!
It's not according to me.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guild_Traders
Each guild has 500 slots, there are 197 guild traders in game. 197 trade guilds x 500 players max per guild = 98,500 total amount of players that can trade. For every player who has more than 1 trade guild, this number lowers. if every person who trades in a guild has 2 guild traders, then only 49,250 people are allowed to trade in game.I think we're okay on the numbers, even using a 2 million active player estimate, which would indicate a very healthy playerbase. And getting that number by realizing that the company is going to overestimate their players (to make them look good)
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
Those are not healthy numbers and I frankly find that concerning.
Edited by Raideen on January 6, 2021 5:50AM2 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZOS, why don’t you make a central listing house for console players. Since it seems that most PC player don’t want it due to add-ons and the ability to more easily cheat the system with the use of bots if a auction house was used.
This would not be the first time something was built for console and not PC community i.e. voice/text chat. A central listing house would make a huge difference for console players since it would take a long time to go look at 200 trading spots.
With a central listing center, we could go see where something is at then travel the trader to buy it. Also be easier to research prices to learn what to list our on items for of on some of the more rare and unique items.
Stay safe and have fun
They try to change as little as possible between platforms because the more differences between platforms the more labor intensive patches and updates are and the harder it is to troubleshoot issues on their end.
I am strongly against an AH but...
I would be ok with a search function on traders that allow you to look for a specific item at the current trader( no delay) or all traders in zone( 5-15 min delay in listing updates), or globally (5-15 min listing update). You would be able to choose between the search range when looking for specific items. You would still have to go to the traders to get the items.
I think that would be a reasonable compromise that would preserve the benefits of the current system but still make finding stuff, especially on console, easier.1 -
Stokowski✭✭✭ZOS's Guild Trader system is a wonderful solution to problems that games with properly regulated Auction Houses never face.
1 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭quoted wrong post.Edited by kargen27 on January 6, 2021 7:08AMand then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
1. PCNA
Just FYI... 3 million divided by 6 is 500k (not 750k) and not every player even wants to participate. (I also think the 3 million is an over estimation of the player base, as that may include players who log on once or twice a month, or just when new DLCs are released for the story)
2. PCEU
3. XBOX
4. Playstation
Ok, so when these people say "3 million", they are lying/over exaggerating.
What are the other two servers? I am dividing by 4, by the servers listed above. Are there separate EU servers for Xbox and PS?Let's say it's actually 2 million. Divided by 6 is 333k per server. If half the players don't want to participate in the trade guilds at all... that's 166k players. There are (according to you) ~100k spots (which are definitely not full) There needs to be some competition for guild trader stalls, otherwise the gold sink won't work as well as it does. Do you see how we get at least close to that 100k being a "sweet spot" ZoS also adds 5 or 6 new guild traders with every expansion, so that's an extra 2500-3000 twice a year!
It's not according to me.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Guild_Traders
Each guild has 500 slots, there are 197 guild traders in game. 197 trade guilds x 500 players max per guild = 98,500 total amount of players that can trade. For every player who has more than 1 trade guild, this number lowers. if every person who trades in a guild has 2 guild traders, then only 49,250 people are allowed to trade in game.I think we're okay on the numbers, even using a 2 million active player estimate, which would indicate a very healthy playerbase. And getting that number by realizing that the company is going to overestimate their players (to make them look good)
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
Those are not healthy numbers and I frankly find that concerning.
The forums have had several threads warning people not to purchase the game through Steam as Steam sometimes causes problems. Some players who did buy the game through Steam do not use Steam to launch the game.
You really can't get an accurate count just looking at Steam.and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."1 -
Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
ZOS has also stated that all the servers are close in their populations. Currently on steam 31k played in the past 30 days. If we rounded that number up above the highest its been in 2020, that would be 50k. 50k x 6 = 300k
You are misreading that page. The 31,077 you are reading as for the entire month is for a single hour during that entire month. That is the peak population on steam during any given hour during the last 30 days. All numbers on steam charts are hourly, not monthly.
I said this before but i will repeat it...
If you figure the average player plays 4 hours a day then you would have a player turnover every 6 hours. If the average player per hour, according to steam , is 18,100. Then 18,100 x 6 =108,600. That would be unique players in a single day for steam. But an average player doesn't play everyday. So if we say the average player plays every other day, which is still extremely conservative. this number is doubled to 217,200 unique players during the course of a week on Steam. Non- Steam users are at least equal to steam users, though realistically there are probably between 3 and 5 times more non steam users than steam users. But we will use double. That is about 435k unique users on one platform. If we assume that Xbox and Sony populations are half of PC populations, though ZOS has said that all platforms have about equal populations, then together they would have the same population as PC. Now we are 870k unique players logging in at least once a week.
I am being really conservative with numbers. It is probably close to that number on PC alone.
0 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »ZOS, why don’t you make a central listing house for console players. Since it seems that most PC player don’t want it due to add-ons and the ability to more easily cheat the system with the use of bots if a auction house was used.
This would not be the first time something was built for console and not PC community i.e. voice/text chat. A central listing house would make a huge difference for console players since it would take a long time to go look at 200 trading spots.
With a central listing center, we could go see where something is at then travel the trader to buy it. Also be easier to research prices to learn what to list our on items for of on some of the more rare and unique items.
Stay safe and have fun
They try to change as little as possible between platforms because the more differences between platforms the more labor intensive patches and updates are and the harder it is to troubleshoot issues on their end.
I am strongly against an AH but...
I would be ok with a search function on traders that allow you to look for a specific item at the current trader( no delay) or all traders in zone( 5-15 min delay in listing updates), or globally (5-15 min listing update). You would be able to choose between the search range when looking for specific items. You would still have to go to the traders to get the items.
I think that would be a reasonable compromise that would preserve the benefits of the current system but still make finding stuff, especially on console, easier.
Central listing house is all I want. I could care less about the 5-15 listing delay. Also don't mind going to the trader directly to buy said item. Just want a way to search all 200 traders without physically having to visit them all individually.
Stay safe and have fun
0 -
hafgood✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Raideen
Yes us console peasants have split servers as well so yes there are 6 mega servers.
And this console peasant is still waiting for an answer on one question that has been totally ignored.
Why are those in favour of an auction house so intent on ruining my gaming experience? When thr mood takes i like to go shopping, I like to go and browse different guild traders while looking either for things I want or for bargains that I can flip so I can afford to buy more stuff or help fund my guild.
With an AH or a guild trader search facility I am robbed of this simple pleasure. And I know I am not alone in this. So you see simply put an AH robs me of this experience as there are no separate traders, there is one listing, not a multitude to browse at my leisure.
When you shop do you just browse the one shop or do you browse the goods at many shops before you make your purchase? Do you just go to one store and buy everything from there? Food, clothing, electrical, leisure goods, toys, furniture, etc. No of course you don't.
So why do you want us to force that on us in game? I'm not saying the guild trader system is perfect but from someone who enjoys shopping around different traders it is far superior to an AH.1 -
Easily_Lost✭✭✭✭✭I for one would like a AH. It is so much easier to buy mats cheap and resell them for double the price or more.
With the guild traders, it means I have to travel all over to buy up cheap mats.PC - NA - AD
started April 2015
PVE & Solo only
Meet the LOST family: CP 1250+
Easily Lost Crafter - lvl 50 - Sorcerer Orc ( knows all traits and most styles )
Easily Lost-W - lvl 50 - Warden Imperial
Forever Lost - lvl 50 Sorcerer
CROWN CRATES: It doesn't affect gameplay, it's not mandatory, it's cosmetic only. If it helps to support the game and ZOS, I support it! Say YES to crown crates.1 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭UGotBenched91 wrote: »Taleof2Cities wrote: »UGotBenched91 wrote: »Where the guild store concept fails is that I have to use outside sources to search for items. I don’t understand why there’s not a search feature in game. This game depends way too much on outside help to have concepts that have been in games over 10 years ago.
You have a search feature in the Guild Store UI at every trader, @UGotBenched91.
Having a central "auction house" search would go against the spirit of the Guild Trader system.
Oh, yes I’m aware of that. I meant that it’s annoying not to be able to search in the entire game. @Taleof2Cities . I’d go against the spirit of the guild trade system anyway for a feature that saves me from running around like a chicken with its head cut off. Games too big for that kind of concept to be efficient. I can’t imagine what people would do if Tamriel trade center wasn’t a thing.
I would like to point out that there is no requirement for ANY player to list what you want on a trader at any time. I will also point out that every item that can be listed for sale in a guild trader can be/has been obtained by completing in game content. Outside of items with limited time frames, the vast majority of these can be obtained at any time with a bit of effort and time. even bad RNG can be defeated with enough effort and time.
So i have to ask this. If you can farm the items in game, and searching traders is such a time waster for you, why do you do it? why are you not farming for your items instead? Could it be that it is still faster than doing a self farm? i mean if it isn't... then why do you do it?1