This is complete nonsense! It is actually the solo speedrunner who is queueing for groupcontent while not intending to run it as a group. The speedrunners are the ones who should go look for their own group.This is not urgent as Zos has already given every player the solution.
When we queue for a random group of players to run a dungeon with we are literally asking for randomness in the type of players to play with. There is little Zos can do to control players in dungeons.
Zos already provided us with the ability to take control of dungeon groups by forming the group ahead of time. Form it from guilds and your friends lists with everyone knowing the specific intent of the dungeon run. Not only will the run be the type you prefer, since you made it happen, but the dungeon runs will be more predictable and smoother since it avoids the random chance of getting someone that is not that good of a player.
This course of action is a win/win.
And yes, this is an urgent matter. As more and more new players(and existing players) are running into this issue. Ruining their gaming experience. In turn causing them to quit, and leaving the game because they want to play for fun. Solo speedrunners and other types of groupdisfunctioning playertypes should be dealt with, as they do not belong in an MMO game. Despite of what excuse(s) they tell themselves, they are just selfish.
You call players being unable to normally pug-group in an MMO, and being unable to normally learn mechanics in the content which was build for it, a win-win situation? ... Very odd. Not to mention destroying the game as more and more players leave due to that type of toxic behaviour, is not a win situation either.
ZOS should control this situation asap, as the MMO part of an MMO is very very important!
Except we are talking about normal dungeons here which are for the unskilled. So if runners don't have the patience to play at an unskilled level with unskilled people, then they should join/make a guild/group for people like them. Argument would be totally different if we were talking about vet content, but we aren't.
Every single "fix" proposed this far is just force everyone to slow down to the unskilled or full dialog level is lop sided the other way. That's not a fix that's forcing "play as you want" to mean "play my way or the highway".
I use to teach newbies to do end game content as a GM in other games. Not allowing newbies to learn dungeon, boss, and "raid" level mechanics beforehand makes it significantly harder for them to learn the later content. Regardless of if the mechanics are exactly the same or not it matters on the fact that if they are mostly being carried in normal they dont even learn basic survival skills. They know nothing of the bosses or the dungeon layout. With bosses, they learn some of the mechanics they need to avoid, if they actually get to see those mechanics. Even if the mechanics don't hurt you, it may hurt them because they have worse gear, worse stats, and don't have the skill or knowledge to counter the mechanics the same way you do. Thus they can L2P and git gud as the practice more and more difficult content.The thing that people complaining about speedrunners don't realize is that it's often not that we are even trying to speed run. The gap between normal and get is absurd to a point of being laughable. You basically can't learn mechanics in normal because mechanics that would kill you on vet don't even hurt on normal and some mechanics actually just don't exist on normal because they wanted to make sure normal was possible for players at any skill level. The trade off for that is that it is barely stronger than overland mobs for the trash pulls which means that players geared to do something like vet trials will slaughter everything. You can't "fix" that without making normal dungeons harder which would punish the budding player far more than just having a vet player steam roll a dungeon.
This is complete nonsense! It is actually the solo speedrunner who is queueing for groupcontent while not intending to run it as a group. The speedrunners are the ones who should go look for their own group.This is not urgent as Zos has already given every player the solution.
When we queue for a random group of players to run a dungeon with we are literally asking for randomness in the type of players to play with. There is little Zos can do to control players in dungeons.
Zos already provided us with the ability to take control of dungeon groups by forming the group ahead of time. Form it from guilds and your friends lists with everyone knowing the specific intent of the dungeon run. Not only will the run be the type you prefer, since you made it happen, but the dungeon runs will be more predictable and smoother since it avoids the random chance of getting someone that is not that good of a player.
This course of action is a win/win.
And yes, this is an urgent matter. As more and more new players(and existing players) are running into this issue. Ruining their gaming experience. In turn causing them to quit, and leaving the game because they want to play for fun. Solo speedrunners and other types of groupdisfunctioning playertypes should be dealt with, as they do not belong in an MMO game. Despite of what excuse(s) they tell themselves, they are just selfish.
You call players being unable to normally pug-group in an MMO, and being unable to normally learn mechanics in the content which was build for it, a win-win situation? ... Very odd. Not to mention destroying the game as more and more players leave due to that type of toxic behaviour, is not a win situation either.
ZOS should control this situation asap, as the MMO part of an MMO is very very important!
Every single "fix" proposed this far is just force everyone to slow down to the unskilled or full dialog level is lop sided the other way. That's not a fix that's forcing "play as you want" to mean "play my way or the highway".
Honestly the best fix for those that want to casually stroll through a dungeon like it is a quest in Skyrim would be to add a story mode queue. It shouldn't drop gear but should give you the skill point for the quest along with the quest reward (which is usually gear). Anything more would be subject to abuse or would hurt the player base since collections work by allowing you to create gear in the lowest drop quality.
The thing that people complaining about speedrunners don't realize is that it's often not that we are even trying to speed run. The gap between normal and get is absurd to a point of being laughable. You basically can't learn mechanics in normal because mechanics that would kill you on vet don't even hurt on normal and some mechanics actually just don't exist on normal because they wanted to make sure normal was possible for players at any skill level. The trade off for that is that it is barely stronger than overland mobs for the trash pulls which means that players geared to do something like vet trials will slaughter everything. You can't "fix" that without making normal dungeons harder which would punish the budding player far more than just having a vet player steam roll a dungeon.
Most vet players will let you fulfill quests and such because most vet players have seen quests glitch out but you have to say something. Even a low level character could have done the quest before and it's actually impossible to tell if it's someone's alt character or if they are truly new to the game.
Anotherone773 wrote: Β»Except we are talking about normal dungeons here which are for the unskilled. So if runners don't have the patience to play at an unskilled level with unskilled people, then they should join/make a guild/group for people like them. Argument would be totally different if we were talking about vet content, but we aren't.
Every single "fix" proposed this far is just force everyone to slow down to the unskilled or full dialog level is lop sided the other way. That's not a fix that's forcing "play as you want" to mean "play my way or the highway".
Those speed runners screw up the dungeon for people who are trying to learn the dungeon, boss, and mechanics. You cant learn the mechanics of a boss, if someone DPSes it down on a cheese build in 10 -15 seconds. Then when these players try to do the vet version of the same dungeon, they dont have a few new mechanics to learn but an entirely new dungeon and the same people that were cheesing their way through normals will be throwing a fit about "how unprepared' they were before they did the vet version.
Edit:I use to teach newbies to do end game content as a GM in other games. Not allowing newbies to learn dungeon, boss, and "raid" level mechanics beforehand makes it significantly harder for them to learn the latter content. Regardless of if the Mechanics are exactly the same it matters on the fact that if they are mostly being carried in normal they dont even learn basic survival skills. They know nothing of the bosses or the dungeon layout. With bosses, they learn some of the mechanics they need to avoid, if they actually get to see those mechanics. Even if the mechanics don't hurt you, it may hurt them because they have worse gear, worse stats, and don't have the skill or knowledge to counter the mechanics the same way you do.The thing that people complaining about speedrunners don't realize is that it's often not that we are even trying to speed run. The gap between normal and get is absurd to a point of being laughable. You basically can't learn mechanics in normal because mechanics that would kill you on vet don't even hurt on normal and some mechanics actually just don't exist on normal because they wanted to make sure normal was possible for players at any skill level. The trade off for that is that it is barely stronger than overland mobs for the trash pulls which means that players geared to do something like vet trials will slaughter everything. You can't "fix" that without making normal dungeons harder which would punish the budding player far more than just having a vet player steam roll a dungeon.
So you are 100% incorrect in that it doesn't matter. Not only does it matter, its absolutely vital that normal dungeons are a learning experience for how to run dungeons, if you don't want to do a vet carry or have to keep kicking "noobs" in vet.
Anotherone773 wrote: Β»Except we are talking about normal dungeons here which are for the unskilled. So if runners don't have the patience to play at an unskilled level with unskilled people, then they should join/make a guild/group for people like them. Argument would be totally different if we were talking about vet content, but we aren't.
Every single "fix" proposed this far is just force everyone to slow down to the unskilled or full dialog level is lop sided the other way. That's not a fix that's forcing "play as you want" to mean "play my way or the highway".
Those speed runners screw up the dungeon for people who are trying to learn the dungeon, boss, and mechanics. You cant learn the mechanics of a boss, if someone DPSes it down on a cheese build in 10 -15 seconds. Then when these players try to do the vet version of the same dungeon, they dont have a few new mechanics to learn but an entirely new dungeon and the same people that were cheesing their way through normals will be throwing a fit about "how unprepared' they were before they did the vet version.
Edit:I use to teach newbies to do end game content as a GM in other games. Not allowing newbies to learn dungeon, boss, and "raid" level mechanics beforehand makes it significantly harder for them to learn the later content. Regardless of if the mechanics are exactly the same or not it matters on the fact that if they are mostly being carried in normal they dont even learn basic survival skills. They know nothing of the bosses or the dungeon layout. With bosses, they learn some of the mechanics they need to avoid, if they actually get to see those mechanics. Even if the mechanics don't hurt you, it may hurt them because they have worse gear, worse stats, and don't have the skill or knowledge to counter the mechanics the same way you do. Thus they can L2P and git gud as the practice more and more difficult content.The thing that people complaining about speedrunners don't realize is that it's often not that we are even trying to speed run. The gap between normal and get is absurd to a point of being laughable. You basically can't learn mechanics in normal because mechanics that would kill you on vet don't even hurt on normal and some mechanics actually just don't exist on normal because they wanted to make sure normal was possible for players at any skill level. The trade off for that is that it is barely stronger than overland mobs for the trash pulls which means that players geared to do something like vet trials will slaughter everything. You can't "fix" that without making normal dungeons harder which would punish the budding player far more than just having a vet player steam roll a dungeon.
So you are 100% incorrect in that it doesn't matter. Not only does it matter, its absolutely vital that normal dungeons are a learning experience for how to run dungeons, if you don't want to do a vet carry or have to keep kicking "noobs" in vet.
Anotherone773 wrote: Β»Except we are talking about normal dungeons here which are for the unskilled. So if runners don't have the patience to play at an unskilled level with unskilled people, then they should join/make a guild/group for people like them. Argument would be totally different if we were talking about vet content, but we aren't.
Every single "fix" proposed this far is just force everyone to slow down to the unskilled or full dialog level is lop sided the other way. That's not a fix that's forcing "play as you want" to mean "play my way or the highway".
Those speed runners screw up the dungeon for people who are trying to learn the dungeon, boss, and mechanics. You cant learn the mechanics of a boss, if someone DPSes it down on a cheese build in 10 -15 seconds. Then when these players try to do the vet version of the same dungeon, they dont have a few new mechanics to learn but an entirely new dungeon and the same people that were cheesing their way through normals will be throwing a fit about "how unprepared' they were before they did the vet version.
Edit:I use to teach newbies to do end game content as a GM in other games. Not allowing newbies to learn dungeon, boss, and "raid" level mechanics beforehand makes it significantly harder for them to learn the later content. Regardless of if the mechanics are exactly the same or not it matters on the fact that if they are mostly being carried in normal they dont even learn basic survival skills. They know nothing of the bosses or the dungeon layout. With bosses, they learn some of the mechanics they need to avoid, if they actually get to see those mechanics. Even if the mechanics don't hurt you, it may hurt them because they have worse gear, worse stats, and don't have the skill or knowledge to counter the mechanics the same way you do. Thus they can L2P and git gud as the practice more and more difficult content.The thing that people complaining about speedrunners don't realize is that it's often not that we are even trying to speed run. The gap between normal and get is absurd to a point of being laughable. You basically can't learn mechanics in normal because mechanics that would kill you on vet don't even hurt on normal and some mechanics actually just don't exist on normal because they wanted to make sure normal was possible for players at any skill level. The trade off for that is that it is barely stronger than overland mobs for the trash pulls which means that players geared to do something like vet trials will slaughter everything. You can't "fix" that without making normal dungeons harder which would punish the budding player far more than just having a vet player steam roll a dungeon.
So you are 100% incorrect in that it doesn't matter. Not only does it matter, its absolutely vital that normal dungeons are a learning experience for how to run dungeons, if you don't want to do a vet carry or have to keep kicking "noobs" in vet.
Anotherone773 wrote: Β»Except we are talking about normal dungeons here which are for the unskilled. So if runners don't have the patience to play at an unskilled level with unskilled people, then they should join/make a guild/group for people like them. Argument would be totally different if we were talking about vet content, but we aren't.
Every single "fix" proposed this far is just force everyone to slow down to the unskilled or full dialog level is lop sided the other way. That's not a fix that's forcing "play as you want" to mean "play my way or the highway".
Those speed runners screw up the dungeon for people who are trying to learn the dungeon, boss, and mechanics. You cant learn the mechanics of a boss, if someone DPSes it down on a cheese build in 10 -15 seconds. Then when these players try to do the vet version of the same dungeon, they dont have a few new mechanics to learn but an entirely new dungeon and the same people that were cheesing their way through normals will be throwing a fit about "how unprepared' they were before they did the vet version.
Edit:I use to teach newbies to do end game content as a GM in other games. Not allowing newbies to learn dungeon, boss, and "raid" level mechanics beforehand makes it significantly harder for them to learn the latter content. Regardless of if the Mechanics are exactly the same it matters on the fact that if they are mostly being carried in normal they dont even learn basic survival skills. They know nothing of the bosses or the dungeon layout. With bosses, they learn some of the mechanics they need to avoid, if they actually get to see those mechanics. Even if the mechanics don't hurt you, it may hurt them because they have worse gear, worse stats, and don't have the skill or knowledge to counter the mechanics the same way you do.The thing that people complaining about speedrunners don't realize is that it's often not that we are even trying to speed run. The gap between normal and get is absurd to a point of being laughable. You basically can't learn mechanics in normal because mechanics that would kill you on vet don't even hurt on normal and some mechanics actually just don't exist on normal because they wanted to make sure normal was possible for players at any skill level. The trade off for that is that it is barely stronger than overland mobs for the trash pulls which means that players geared to do something like vet trials will slaughter everything. You can't "fix" that without making normal dungeons harder which would punish the budding player far more than just having a vet player steam roll a dungeon.
So you are 100% incorrect in that it doesn't matter. Not only does it matter, its absolutely vital that normal dungeons are a learning experience for how to run dungeons, if you don't want to do a vet carry or have to keep kicking "noobs" in vet.
Normals are so braindead easy they are an awful place to learn to do a dungeon. This includes lower level players as well. Half the mechanics don't even hurt players in any way near the way they hurt players in vet dungeons.
Anotherone773 wrote: Β»Anotherone773 wrote: Β»Except we are talking about normal dungeons here which are for the unskilled. So if runners don't have the patience to play at an unskilled level with unskilled people, then they should join/make a guild/group for people like them. Argument would be totally different if we were talking about vet content, but we aren't.
Every single "fix" proposed this far is just force everyone to slow down to the unskilled or full dialog level is lop sided the other way. That's not a fix that's forcing "play as you want" to mean "play my way or the highway".
Those speed runners screw up the dungeon for people who are trying to learn the dungeon, boss, and mechanics. You cant learn the mechanics of a boss, if someone DPSes it down on a cheese build in 10 -15 seconds. Then when these players try to do the vet version of the same dungeon, they dont have a few new mechanics to learn but an entirely new dungeon and the same people that were cheesing their way through normals will be throwing a fit about "how unprepared' they were before they did the vet version.
Edit:I use to teach newbies to do end game content as a GM in other games. Not allowing newbies to learn dungeon, boss, and "raid" level mechanics beforehand makes it significantly harder for them to learn the latter content. Regardless of if the Mechanics are exactly the same it matters on the fact that if they are mostly being carried in normal they dont even learn basic survival skills. They know nothing of the bosses or the dungeon layout. With bosses, they learn some of the mechanics they need to avoid, if they actually get to see those mechanics. Even if the mechanics don't hurt you, it may hurt them because they have worse gear, worse stats, and don't have the skill or knowledge to counter the mechanics the same way you do.The thing that people complaining about speedrunners don't realize is that it's often not that we are even trying to speed run. The gap between normal and get is absurd to a point of being laughable. You basically can't learn mechanics in normal because mechanics that would kill you on vet don't even hurt on normal and some mechanics actually just don't exist on normal because they wanted to make sure normal was possible for players at any skill level. The trade off for that is that it is barely stronger than overland mobs for the trash pulls which means that players geared to do something like vet trials will slaughter everything. You can't "fix" that without making normal dungeons harder which would punish the budding player far more than just having a vet player steam roll a dungeon.
So you are 100% incorrect in that it doesn't matter. Not only does it matter, its absolutely vital that normal dungeons are a learning experience for how to run dungeons, if you don't want to do a vet carry or have to keep kicking "noobs" in vet.
Normals are so braindead easy they are an awful place to learn to do a dungeon. This includes lower level players as well. Half the mechanics don't even hurt players in any way near the way they hurt players in vet dungeons.
Do tell where one shall learn to do a dungeon? Perhaps:
* Vet dungeons? No that is a terrible place to learn to do dungeons. If you don't know what you are doing, you get berated and kicked or if your lucky they just kick you before making your game experience toxic.
* Youtube? Should they study the dungeons out of game before playing? Will there be a quiz later? They should study to play a game instead of playing the game... that makes sense!
* Perhaps a combination of articles on that dungeons mechanics and training dummy abuse? We could toss in a written test on the mechanics of the dungeon, and then a physical test on a training dummy...
Anotherone773 wrote: Β»Except we are talking about normal dungeons here which are for the unskilled. So if runners don't have the patience to play at an unskilled level with unskilled people, then they should join/make a guild/group for people like them. Argument would be totally different if we were talking about vet content, but we aren't.
Every single "fix" proposed this far is just force everyone to slow down to the unskilled or full dialog level is lop sided the other way. That's not a fix that's forcing "play as you want" to mean "play my way or the highway".
Those speed runners screw up the dungeon for people who are trying to learn the dungeon, boss, and mechanics. You cant learn the mechanics of a boss, if someone DPSes it down on a cheese build in 10 -15 seconds. Then when these players try to do the vet version of the same dungeon, they dont have a few new mechanics to learn but an entirely new dungeon and the same people that were cheesing their way through normals will be throwing a fit about "how unprepared' they were before they did the vet version.
Edit:I use to teach newbies to do end game content as a GM in other games. Not allowing newbies to learn dungeon, boss, and "raid" level mechanics beforehand makes it significantly harder for them to learn the later content. Regardless of if the mechanics are exactly the same or not it matters on the fact that if they are mostly being carried in normal they dont even learn basic survival skills. They know nothing of the bosses or the dungeon layout. With bosses, they learn some of the mechanics they need to avoid, if they actually get to see those mechanics. Even if the mechanics don't hurt you, it may hurt them because they have worse gear, worse stats, and don't have the skill or knowledge to counter the mechanics the same way you do. Thus they can L2P and git gud as the practice more and more difficult content.The thing that people complaining about speedrunners don't realize is that it's often not that we are even trying to speed run. The gap between normal and get is absurd to a point of being laughable. You basically can't learn mechanics in normal because mechanics that would kill you on vet don't even hurt on normal and some mechanics actually just don't exist on normal because they wanted to make sure normal was possible for players at any skill level. The trade off for that is that it is barely stronger than overland mobs for the trash pulls which means that players geared to do something like vet trials will slaughter everything. You can't "fix" that without making normal dungeons harder which would punish the budding player far more than just having a vet player steam roll a dungeon.
So you are 100% incorrect in that it doesn't matter. Not only does it matter, its absolutely vital that normal dungeons are a learning experience for how to run dungeons, if you don't want to do a vet carry or have to keep kicking "noobs" in vet.
I will give you an example for normal teaches nothing. Take fungul grotto 1 which is probably the easiest dungeon in the entire game. The last boss does an AOE attack that on normal does like 5k but on vet does about 30k. It goes from barely hurts to one shots you. How does that teach a player who might not know it exists? Or take falkreath hold. On normal the shout mechanic does like 10k ish if even but on vet it will one shot even tanks. Also there is no explanation really in game that you need to line of sight the boss to avoid this damage and that it needs to be limited to as few pillars as possible or you will run out of safe zones before the boss dies.
Teaching people how to do mechanics is fine. I have helped many players with this but normal isn't the place for the most part at least not in ESO. The gap is just too large. Things that don't hurt or are completely skipped even with really bad dps on normal are the entire difficulty of vet. Vet requires structure and much more from the players and actually makes the idea of a random vet queue perplexing considering how little the game teaches it's players.
Again if the issue is that people are running too fast for ones liking and ruining your personal experience well form a like minded group and don't queue is the current solution. If the issue is quests being broken because of a speed runner I think that's fair and ZOS should adjust the quests so that can't happen (most of the dlc dungeons do not have that issue as they are just kill boss move on and you don't have to be present when the boss dies).
People are not left behind when they speak up and tell the group they are doing the quest. [snip]
[Edited to remove Baiting]
Anotherone773 wrote: Β»
Learning to play well enough to do vet dungeons...end game content takes far more than just making sure you can pass a dps check and studying a few mechanics and applying it for most of the gaming population. Geezus, i see why end game runners get so bent out of shape about players not being good enough to do content with them. No one teaches anyone anything useful." Watch youtube, learn mechanics, do 40k DPS on this dummy, training is over. You should be an expert player now!"
Everyone on here that advocates for speed runs do not ever get to be surprised when people don't know mechanics in vet. Like ever. You do not get to complain about it.
And imo the rewards for random normal should be a lot lower than they are.
Anotherone773 wrote: Β»Anotherone773 wrote: Β»Except we are talking about normal dungeons here which are for the unskilled. So if runners don't have the patience to play at an unskilled level with unskilled people, then they should join/make a guild/group for people like them. Argument would be totally different if we were talking about vet content, but we aren't.
Every single "fix" proposed this far is just force everyone to slow down to the unskilled or full dialog level is lop sided the other way. That's not a fix that's forcing "play as you want" to mean "play my way or the highway".
Those speed runners screw up the dungeon for people who are trying to learn the dungeon, boss, and mechanics. You cant learn the mechanics of a boss, if someone DPSes it down on a cheese build in 10 -15 seconds. Then when these players try to do the vet version of the same dungeon, they dont have a few new mechanics to learn but an entirely new dungeon and the same people that were cheesing their way through normals will be throwing a fit about "how unprepared' they were before they did the vet version.
Edit:I use to teach newbies to do end game content as a GM in other games. Not allowing newbies to learn dungeon, boss, and "raid" level mechanics beforehand makes it significantly harder for them to learn the later content. Regardless of if the mechanics are exactly the same or not it matters on the fact that if they are mostly being carried in normal they dont even learn basic survival skills. They know nothing of the bosses or the dungeon layout. With bosses, they learn some of the mechanics they need to avoid, if they actually get to see those mechanics. Even if the mechanics don't hurt you, it may hurt them because they have worse gear, worse stats, and don't have the skill or knowledge to counter the mechanics the same way you do. Thus they can L2P and git gud as the practice more and more difficult content.The thing that people complaining about speedrunners don't realize is that it's often not that we are even trying to speed run. The gap between normal and get is absurd to a point of being laughable. You basically can't learn mechanics in normal because mechanics that would kill you on vet don't even hurt on normal and some mechanics actually just don't exist on normal because they wanted to make sure normal was possible for players at any skill level. The trade off for that is that it is barely stronger than overland mobs for the trash pulls which means that players geared to do something like vet trials will slaughter everything. You can't "fix" that without making normal dungeons harder which would punish the budding player far more than just having a vet player steam roll a dungeon.
So you are 100% incorrect in that it doesn't matter. Not only does it matter, its absolutely vital that normal dungeons are a learning experience for how to run dungeons, if you don't want to do a vet carry or have to keep kicking "noobs" in vet.
I will give you an example for normal teaches nothing. Take fungul grotto 1 which is probably the easiest dungeon in the entire game. The last boss does an AOE attack that on normal does like 5k but on vet does about 30k. It goes from barely hurts to one shots you. How does that teach a player who might not know it exists? Or take falkreath hold. On normal the shout mechanic does like 10k ish if even but on vet it will one shot even tanks. Also there is no explanation really in game that you need to line of sight the boss to avoid this damage and that it needs to be limited to as few pillars as possible or you will run out of safe zones before the boss dies.
Teaching people how to do mechanics is fine. I have helped many players with this but normal isn't the place for the most part at least not in ESO. The gap is just too large. Things that don't hurt or are completely skipped even with really bad dps on normal are the entire difficulty of vet. Vet requires structure and much more from the players and actually makes the idea of a random vet queue perplexing considering how little the game teaches it's players.
Again if the issue is that people are running too fast for ones liking and ruining your personal experience well form a like minded group and don't queue is the current solution. If the issue is quests being broken because of a speed runner I think that's fair and ZOS should adjust the quests so that can't happen (most of the dlc dungeons do not have that issue as they are just kill boss move on and you don't have to be present when the boss dies).
Just because you have nothing to learn from FG1 doesn't mean other people don't. Not everyone plays at your level and assuming that people do and just automatically learn this game at the same rate as you or even understand the game and its mechanics on the same level is ridiculous. You are also assuming that the only thing to learn is the actual mechanic completely ignoring everything else about group play including learning to play in a group and to play with others. Learning to use their character against harder enemies than what is encountered overland. Learning general game mechanics Learning how to stay out of stupid because why you are sitting here saying " that only does 5k and that only does 10k" im the dude trying to keep these guys alive because they dont know how to mitigate damage yet or heal themselves or keep from getting damaged in the first place.
DLC dungeons get significantly harder as you get to newer DLCs IF you never run vet dungeons and to players new to the game that leap from FG1 to Falkreath Hold to Moongrave Fane, is quite significant in skills needed.
You honestly have no clue what it takes for an average player to hone their skills, knowledge, and reflexes to be good enough that you don't have to carry them through vet content as they limp along almost doing acceptable DPS and heals is pulling their hair out trying to keep them alive because the person rolls out of stupid right into ignorant trying to keep up.
Learning to play well enough to do vet dungeons...end game content takes far more than just making sure you can pass a dps check and studying a few mechanics and applying it for most of the gaming population. Geezus, i see why end game runners get so bent out of shape about players not being good enough to do content with them. No one teaches anyone anything useful." Watch youtube, learn mechanics, do 40k DPS on this dummy, training is over. You should be an expert player now!"
Speed runners don't give a hoot about others, even people running the dungeon quest.
This is complete nonsense! It is actually the solo speedrunner who is queueing for groupcontent while not intending to run it as a group. The speedrunners are the ones who should go look for their own group.This is not urgent as Zos has already given every player the solution.
When we queue for a random group of players to run a dungeon with we are literally asking for randomness in the type of players to play with. There is little Zos can do to control players in dungeons.
Zos already provided us with the ability to take control of dungeon groups by forming the group ahead of time. Form it from guilds and your friends lists with everyone knowing the specific intent of the dungeon run. Not only will the run be the type you prefer, since you made it happen, but the dungeon runs will be more predictable and smoother since it avoids the random chance of getting someone that is not that good of a player.
This course of action is a win/win.
And yes, this is an urgent matter. As more and more new players(and existing players) are running into this issue. Ruining their gaming experience. In turn causing them to quit, and leaving the game because they want to play for fun. Solo speedrunners and other types of groupdisfunctioning playertypes should be dealt with, as they do not belong in an MMO game. Despite of what excuse(s) they tell themselves, they are just selfish.
You call players being unable to normally pug-group in an MMO, and being unable to normally learn mechanics in the content which was build for it, a win-win situation? ... Very odd. Not to mention destroying the game as more and more players leave due to that type of toxic behaviour, is not a win situation either.
ZOS should control this situation asap, as the MMO part of an MMO is very very important!
Every single "fix" proposed this far is just force everyone to slow down to the unskilled or full dialog level is lop sided the other way. That's not a fix that's forcing "play as you want" to mean "play my way or the highway".
Honestly the best fix for those that want to casually stroll through a dungeon like it is a quest in Skyrim would be to add a story mode queue. It shouldn't drop gear but should give you the skill point for the quest along with the quest reward (which is usually gear). Anything more would be subject to abuse or would hurt the player base since collections work by allowing you to create gear in the lowest drop quality.
The thing that people complaining about speedrunners don't realize is that it's often not that we are even trying to speed run. The gap between normal and get is absurd to a point of being laughable. You basically can't learn mechanics in normal because mechanics that would kill you on vet don't even hurt on normal and some mechanics actually just don't exist on normal because they wanted to make sure normal was possible for players at any skill level. The trade off for that is that it is barely stronger than overland mobs for the trash pulls which means that players geared to do something like vet trials will slaughter everything. You can't "fix" that without making normal dungeons harder which would punish the budding player far more than just having a vet player steam roll a dungeon.
Most vet players will let you fulfill quests and such because most vet players have seen quests glitch out but you have to say something. Even a low level character could have done the quest before and it's actually impossible to tell if it's someone's alt character or if they are truly new to the game.
I agree. ESO is not about being restrictive and as such these "fixes" do not make sense.
What does make sense is players forming their own group when they want to run the dungeon in a specific manner.
This is complete nonsense! It is actually the solo speedrunner who is queueing for groupcontent while not intending to run it as a group. The speedrunners are the ones who should go look for their own group.This is not urgent as Zos has already given every player the solution.
When we queue for a random group of players to run a dungeon with we are literally asking for randomness in the type of players to play with. There is little Zos can do to control players in dungeons.
Zos already provided us with the ability to take control of dungeon groups by forming the group ahead of time. Form it from guilds and your friends lists with everyone knowing the specific intent of the dungeon run. Not only will the run be the type you prefer, since you made it happen, but the dungeon runs will be more predictable and smoother since it avoids the random chance of getting someone that is not that good of a player.
This course of action is a win/win.
And yes, this is an urgent matter. As more and more new players(and existing players) are running into this issue. Ruining their gaming experience. In turn causing them to quit, and leaving the game because they want to play for fun. Solo speedrunners and other types of groupdisfunctioning playertypes should be dealt with, as they do not belong in an MMO game. Despite of what excuse(s) they tell themselves, they are just selfish.
You call players being unable to normally pug-group in an MMO, and being unable to normally learn mechanics in the content which was build for it, a win-win situation? ... Very odd. Not to mention destroying the game as more and more players leave due to that type of toxic behaviour, is not a win situation either.
ZOS should control this situation asap, as the MMO part of an MMO is very very important!
Every single "fix" proposed this far is just force everyone to slow down to the unskilled or full dialog level is lop sided the other way. That's not a fix that's forcing "play as you want" to mean "play my way or the highway".
Honestly the best fix for those that want to casually stroll through a dungeon like it is a quest in Skyrim would be to add a story mode queue. It shouldn't drop gear but should give you the skill point for the quest along with the quest reward (which is usually gear). Anything more would be subject to abuse or would hurt the player base since collections work by allowing you to create gear in the lowest drop quality.
The thing that people complaining about speedrunners don't realize is that it's often not that we are even trying to speed run. The gap between normal and get is absurd to a point of being laughable. You basically can't learn mechanics in normal because mechanics that would kill you on vet don't even hurt on normal and some mechanics actually just don't exist on normal because they wanted to make sure normal was possible for players at any skill level. The trade off for that is that it is barely stronger than overland mobs for the trash pulls which means that players geared to do something like vet trials will slaughter everything. You can't "fix" that without making normal dungeons harder which would punish the budding player far more than just having a vet player steam roll a dungeon.
Most vet players will let you fulfill quests and such because most vet players have seen quests glitch out but you have to say something. Even a low level character could have done the quest before and it's actually impossible to tell if it's someone's alt character or if they are truly new to the game.
I agree. ESO is not about being restrictive and as such these "fixes" do not make sense.
What does make sense is players forming their own group when they want to run the dungeon in a specific manner.
The fix is simple for those who just want to experience the story
make the dungeon story repeatable. No repeatable rewards mind you but make it so if they missed out on the story the first time they can get like minded people for a group and experience the story that way.
I will give you an example for normal teaches nothing. Take fungul grotto 1 which is probably the easiest dungeon in the entire game. The last boss does an AOE attack that on normal does like 5k but on vet does about 30k. It goes from barely hurts to one shots you. How does that teach a player who might not know it exists? Or take falkreath hold. On normal the shout mechanic does like 10k ish if even but on vet it will one shot even tanks. Also there is no explanation really in game that you need to line of sight the boss to avoid this damage and that it needs to be limited to as few pillars as possible or you will run out of safe zones before the boss dies.
Teaching people how to do mechanics is fine. I have helped many players with this but normal isn't the place for the most part at least not in ESO. The gap is just too large. Things that don't hurt or are completely skipped even with really bad dps on normal are the entire difficulty of vet. Vet requires structure and much more from the players and actually makes the idea of a random vet queue perplexing considering how little the game teaches it's players.
Again if the issue is that people are running too fast for ones liking and ruining your personal experience well form a like minded group and don't queue is the current solution. If the issue is quests being broken because of a speed runner I think that's fair and ZOS should adjust the quests so that can't happen (most of the dlc dungeons do not have that issue as they are just kill boss move on and you don't have to be present when the boss dies).
Anotherone773 wrote: Β»Ellimist_Entreri wrote: Β»Anotherone773 wrote: Β»How about speed runners "git gud" and run vets instead and leave the normal dungeons to those who want a casual/learning/questing experience???
Now there's an idea
The problem really sounds to me like it's the transmute crystal rewards from the random that incentivizes this sort of behavior - if the veteran content provided a higher reward or the normal contents transmute reward was lowered it might help to push many of these users into the higher tier content.
Before that though it was the pledges. I stayed away from pledge dungeons because that is when you always get the people that are like " I have 5 more toons to do pledges on and only 2 hours before bedtime!" Making 2H weapons count as 2 slots for sets changed a lot of builds so that monster sets werent the default go to for meta builds. They are still used sometimes but not like they were. Though having a single mythic once again to offset the balance.
They should just stop with the pledge system or give it its own queue, that would remove some toxic people from the dungeon queue.
This is pointless because we're talking about being cheated out of exp, time, and skill points and yet you keep hammering on about experiencing the story which is a deflection from the actual issue.