Which "fake" role makes your dungeon group fail most?

MorganaLaVey · December 2020

Glurin wrote: »

Reason being the number of DPS who do the same is zero. Nobody queues as dps to skip the line. Nobody joins a group as dps with no intention at all of doing any damage. There is no benefit to it. None.

"Yeah, I don't want to dps, I just wanna heal. But I don't want to put up with that annoying five minute wait in the queue so I'm gonna sign up as dps to get that nice long 45 minute downtime."

I don't see that happening. Ever.

Its true Nobody queues as dps to skip the line. Nobody joins a group as dps with no intention at all of doing any damage. Nobody says
"Yeah, I don't want to dps, I just wanna heal. But I don't want to put up with that annoying five minute wait in the queue so I'm gonna sign up as dps to get that nice long 45 minute downtime."

But Many say:
"Yeah, I don't want to leran how to do dps, Tank or heal, I just wanna get the rewand. But I don't want to put up with that annoying developing a basic understanding of my role and class so I'm gonna sign up as dps because if i queue as heal or tank my group will die and i get kicked."

There are also Many who say:
"Yeah, I don't want to do dps, I just wanna get the reward. But I don't want to put up with that annoying developing a basic understanding of my role and class so I'm gonna sign up as dps and tell my self over and over again things like:
- everyone who criticizes me is a toxic elitist who expects me to do top DPS
- my DPS may not be the best but i dont want to do leaderboards anyway
- i know my dps is good because things die fast (what ever fast means lol)
- i dont practise on dummys because dummys dont fight back
- its more importend to play the mechanics then to have more then 10k dps
- i payd for the game so other players have to be my *** and serve me
- dont want to make this game my job
- my time & real life is more importend then the time and real life of others so i derserf to be carryd
- i can play how i want
- i have 100cp in Mightty 100cp in Precise Strikes and 70cp in Master at Arms, more damage is not even possible
- im not as good as hard core players but im good for a casual player
- and ongoing
and if i tell me this things often and long enough i will start to belive them and feel good in my potatones."

They may not skip the queue to get in the dungeon faster but they skip the "developing a basic understanding of my role" process to get in the dungeon faster. How is this any different from fake tank and heal ? because there queue is longer ?

The result is the same: Who ever gets this fake players who dont perform in any role in there group is in for a bad time if he cant carry them. does not matter how long the fake player was sitting in queue.

If you cant even bother to learn the basics of your role your fake. Queue time has nothing to do with it.

Glurin · December 2020

Fake Tank

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

DPS have a job. Do damage. Period. End of discussion.

@Glurin

That's false. A dps's job is to due enough damage to clear a dungeon. And 10k is not enough to clear many dungeons. If someone wants a fast run or a score run, and that dps cannot do that, then they are bad. If they queue up knowing they don’t have the dps to clear any dungeon that pops in their feed, they are a fake. If their damage is not distinguishable from any other role, they are a fake.

A dps's job is not to exist without literally being inactive, it's to bring enough damage that the group can succeed.

Success or failure has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the definition of a person's role in a group. "Your job is to win." That's not a job. That's a goal. Your job is to perform whatever duties are inherent in the task you are assigned.

That's not just a goal. It is your entire reason for being there. Your job is your primary objective.

Exactly. It's your objective. Your job is what you do to obtain your objective. Your job is not the objective in itself.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

By your defintion, anyone who is not afk is a dps.

Yeah, that's pretty much what a DPS is and what it has always been. You do damage, you are a DPS. The roles simply define your primary focus within the group. Tanks control the boss. That doesn't mean they can't also heal or do damage. Healers heal the wounded. That doesn't mean they can't also do damage or tank if needed. DPS simply means putting control and healing further down on your priority list. Nothing more.

Glurin · December 2020

Fake Tank

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

Its true Nobody queues as dps to skip the line. Nobody joins a group as dps with no intention at all of doing any damage. Nobody says
"Yeah, I don't want to dps, I just wanna heal. But I don't want to put up with that annoying five minute wait in the queue so I'm gonna sign up as dps to get that nice long 45 minute downtime."

But Many say:
"Yeah, I don't want to leran how to do dps, Tank or heal, I just wanna get the rewand. But I don't want to put up with that annoying developing a basic understanding of my role and class so I'm gonna sign up as dps because if i queue as heal or tank my group will die and i get kicked."

There are also Many who say:
"Yeah, I don't want to do dps, I just wanna get the reward. But I don't want to put up with that annoying developing a basic understanding of my role and class so I'm gonna sign up as dps and tell my self over and over again things like:
- everyone who criticizes me is a toxic elitist who expects me to do top DPS
- my DPS may not be the best but i dont want to do leaderboards anyway
- i know my dps is good because things die fast (what ever fast means lol)
- i dont practise on dummys because dummys dont fight back
- its more importend to play the mechanics then to have more then 10k dps
- i payd for the game so other players have to be my *** and serve me
- dont want to make this game my job
- my time & real life is more importend then the time and real life of others so i derserf to be carryd
- i can play how i want
- i have 100cp in Mightty 100cp in Precise Strikes and 70cp in Master at Arms, more damage is not even possible
- im not as good as hard core players but im good for a casual player
- and ongoing
and if i tell me this things often and long enough i will start to belive them and feel good in my potatones."

They may not skip the queue to get in the dungeon faster but they skip the "developing a basic understanding of my role" process to get in the dungeon faster. How is this any different from fake tank and heal ?

Because a fake tank or fake healer is pretending to be something they are not and never had any intention of being.

If I hired you to be a fry cook and since your very first day on the job you never once even looked at the fryer because you wanted to stand behind the register, you are a fake fry cook. If on the other hand you did use the fryer but ended up turning everything to charcoal, you are a bad fry cook.

That's the difference. All those examples you go on and on about are either bad DPS or simply non-elitist DPS, not fake DPS. They never once pretended to be DPS so that they could do anything other than do damage.

Quit making excuses for yourself. You know damn well what specific behavior is being talked about when people use the terms fake tank or fake healer, and all you're doing by ranting about "fake DPS" is convincing me that you are guilty of such behavior yourself.

Sailor_Palutena · December 2020

Fake Healer

If I'm the tank, the fake healer and vice versa.
Fake DPS just makes the run boring.

Josira · December 2020

Normal Dungeon: doesnt matter you could do these without arms. no need for rolls,and people who complain about it are often the special kind of pedantic people that are best left to their own devices.
Normal DLC Dungeon: Mechanics matter. People need to know some of the mechanics.
Vet Dungeon: Game Knowledge matters,decent build matters. But dont need stellar Dps,tanking or healing. Still possible to get through with 4 dps's. Even 4 dps's with pugs if you have enough. wouldnt recomend it though just do your roll.please it makes things easier even though it is possible without.
Vet DLC Dungeon: You need decent builds,game knowledge and knowledge of dungeon mechanics. Rolls need to be doing their rolls.

hexentb16_ESO · December 2020

Ehhh. Depends on the group. Having a fake tank and healer is not an issue if your group consists of four experienced 810 dps. However if the group has too many noobs it'll be a fake tank that does them in.

iksde · December 2020

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

Yeah, that's pretty much what a DPS is and what it has always been. You do damage, you are a DPS. The roles simply define your primary focus within the group. Tanks control the boss. That doesn't mean they can't also heal or do damage. Healers heal the wounded. That doesn't mean they can't also do damage or tank if needed. DPS simply means putting control and healing further down on your priority list. Nothing more.

and yet we are getting to where a tank specific role or healer, support specific role with full tank, healer or support gear is doing more damage than dps specific role player
then for what to keep this guy? even better will be to take ere 2 additional support roles and be sure you wont die becaue of damage becaue not only dps woudl stay same if not higher but also you all will be keeping together from dying, this dps role dealing that low dmg is literally useless when support roles can do same damage and give something more into group

iksde · December 2020

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

MorganaLaVey wrote: »

Its true Nobody queues as dps to skip the line. Nobody joins a group as dps with no intention at all of doing any damage. Nobody says
"Yeah, I don't want to dps, I just wanna heal. But I don't want to put up with that annoying five minute wait in the queue so I'm gonna sign up as dps to get that nice long 45 minute downtime."

But Many say:
"Yeah, I don't want to leran how to do dps, Tank or heal, I just wanna get the rewand. But I don't want to put up with that annoying developing a basic understanding of my role and class so I'm gonna sign up as dps because if i queue as heal or tank my group will die and i get kicked."

There are also Many who say:
"Yeah, I don't want to do dps, I just wanna get the reward. But I don't want to put up with that annoying developing a basic understanding of my role and class so I'm gonna sign up as dps and tell my self over and over again things like:
- everyone who criticizes me is a toxic elitist who expects me to do top DPS
- my DPS may not be the best but i dont want to do leaderboards anyway
- i know my dps is good because things die fast (what ever fast means lol)
- i dont practise on dummys because dummys dont fight back
- its more importend to play the mechanics then to have more then 10k dps
- i payd for the game so other players have to be my *** and serve me
- dont want to make this game my job
- my time & real life is more importend then the time and real life of others so i derserf to be carryd
- i can play how i want
- i have 100cp in Mightty 100cp in Precise Strikes and 70cp in Master at Arms, more damage is not even possible
- im not as good as hard core players but im good for a casual player
- and ongoing
and if i tell me this things often and long enough i will start to belive them and feel good in my potatones."

They may not skip the queue to get in the dungeon faster but they skip the "developing a basic understanding of my role" process to get in the dungeon faster. How is this any different from fake tank and heal ?

Because a fake tank or fake healer is pretending to be something they are not and never had any intention of being.

If I hired you to be a fry cook and since your very first day on the job you never once even looked at the fryer because you wanted to stand behind the register, you are a fake fry cook. If on the other hand you did use the fryer but ended up turning everything to charcoal, you are a bad fry cook.

That's the difference. All those examples you go on and on about are either bad DPS or simply non-elitist DPS, not fake DPS. They never once pretended to be DPS so that they could do anything other than do damage.

Quit making excuses for yourself. You know damn well what specific behavior is being talked about when people use the terms fake tank or fake healer, and all you're doing by ranting about "fake DPS" is convincing me that you are guilty of such behavior yourself.

and by your example:

while "bad fry cook" cant not-burn anything because he dont wanna to care about learning how he should do this you have just janitor who is capable of not burning this that much while also being able to clean place, who would you rather to get on position of fry cooker?

and for same case but here you will have janitor who is capable to fry cook without burning! and he never was working as fry cooker btw!

who will you get onto fry cooker when you will need to take sudden break but you cant leave fry cooker without anyone working with this? and "fry cooker" who is unable to not burn food and have big problems with learning or janitor who got free time and willing to help and is able to fry cook without burning food?

renne · December 2020

Fake Tank

yeah but if the janitor is going to do the fry cook job they'll be called a fry cook because that's literally what they're doing, not a fake fry cook. they're a fake fry cook if they're a janitor and claim they can be a fry cook but actually can't when it comes down to it.

i was in a two man normal lair of maarselok last week. 2 dps, me and a friend. we realised someone needed to tank the spider's fang attack because it was one shotting us, so i slotted a taunt and put on heavy sets that gave me survivability. i was the tank. sure. not a GREAT tank, but i taunted the boss and held aggro and survived the heavy attacks that were giving us difficulty. i wasn't a fake tank, despite the rest of the build being dps, because i fulfilled the basic requirements for tanking, which is what fake tanks don't do.

TradoTheOne · December 2020

Fake DPS

I mainly tank, so this is an easy one.

Thevampirenight · December 2020

Hmm, posts this here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjymriW0vQs

spartaxoxo · December 2020

Fake DPS

@Glurin

Your definition including every player makes your definition overly broad and useless. A failed definition. A correct definiton must actually include parameters that differiantes it from everything. There would be no separate queue in guild finder, no separate term, if a dps's job was to simply exist.

As for a job, yes that is defined by your primary objective. The job description of a baker is to bake things. The things they do to accomplish baking is learning how to do the job. The job is the primary objective. How to do the job is all the things you do to meet that objective.

It's a dps job to meet a minimum damage threshold to clear a dungeon. How that go about meeting or exceeding that job determines their skill at doing it.

iksde · December 2020

Fake DPS

renne wrote: »

yeah but if the janitor(tank) is going to do the fry cook(dps) job they'll be called a fry cook(dps) because that's literally what they're doing, not a fake fry cook(dps). they're a fake fry cook if they're a janitor and claim they can be a fry cook but actually can't when it comes down to it.

and yet we never had situation, or had it so notorious to be visible where tank is queue as dps but we have it so often where tank is doing his tank job and same if not better job as dps in group because this dps is so bad

janitor is going fo his job...but fry cooker is so bad at his job janitor is comming to do this job and is doing it better while at once cleaning place because work have to be done and janitor is doing for 2 people while fry cooker is pretending, faking his job because he is unable to his job if he cant cook anything but he is burning everything and then he is surprised why janitor is so upset on him when there was nobody other to do this job but it had to be done

irstarkey57 · December 2020

Fake DPS

ElCapitanAmericano wrote: »

Normal non-dlc
Fake tank is likely carrying the group
Fake healer is helping fake tank carry the group
Fake DPS unironically thinks they are real DPS and are getting carried

This this this this this 1000%!

renne · December 2020

Fake Tank

iksde wrote: »

renne wrote: »

yeah but if the janitor(tank) is going to do the fry cook(dps) job they'll be called a fry cook(dps) because that's literally what they're doing, not a fake fry cook(dps). they're a fake fry cook if they're a janitor and claim they can be a fry cook but actually can't when it comes down to it.

and yet we never had situation, or had it so notorious to be visible where tank is queue as dps but we have it so often where tank is doing his tank job and same if not better job as dps in group because this dps is so bad

janitor is going fo his job...but fry cooker is so bad at his job janitor is comming to do this job and is doing it better while at once cleaning place because work have to be done and janitor is doing for 2 people while fry cooker is pretending, faking his job because he is unable to his job if he cant cook anything but he is burning everything and then he is surprised why janitor is so upset on him when there was nobody other to do this job but it had to be done

Hey @iksde, you DON'T edit in words into comments that aren't there, especially not to intentionally misrepresent what someone said. In this case the janitor role is a DPS and the fry cook role is a tank and no amount of putting word into my comment to make it look like I meant something else will change the actual meaning.

I literally put a real life example below to illustrate what I meant, but I see you completely ignored that and just went with twisting my words instead. 🙄

Glurin · December 2020

Fake Tank

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Yeah, that's pretty much what a DPS is and what it has always been. You do damage, you are a DPS. The roles simply define your primary focus within the group. Tanks control the boss. That doesn't mean they can't also heal or do damage. Healers heal the wounded. That doesn't mean they can't also do damage or tank if needed. DPS simply means putting control and healing further down on your priority list. Nothing more.

and yet we are getting to where a tank specific role or healer, support specific role with full tank, healer or support gear is doing more damage than dps specific role player

That doesn't matter. I don't know how else to put this to get it though to you. Being bad at DPS doesn't make you a fake DPS. It just makes you bad at DPS.

Glurin · December 2020

Fake Tank

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Your definition including every player makes your definition overly broad and useless. A failed definition. A correct definiton must actually include parameters that differiantes it from everything. There would be no separate queue in guild finder, no separate term, if a dps's job was to simply exist.

Uh, no, it's not that broad. It's just very simple and straightforward. Tank, control the boss. Healer, heal the wounded. DPS, do damage. Those are your primary functions. You only qualify as a fake if you sign up for a job that you refuse to do. That's the definition of the word "fake". Pretending to be something you are not.

Labeling every DPS that doesn't pass some arbitrary threshold a fake is exactly the same as labeling every cook in the world who isn't a five star Michelin chef a fake. It's conceited and arrogant ***.

Glurin · December 2020

Fake Tank

iksde wrote: »

renne wrote: »

yeah but if the janitor(tank) is going to do the fry cook(dps) job they'll be called a fry cook(dps) because that's literally what they're doing, not a fake fry cook(dps). they're a fake fry cook if they're a janitor and claim they can be a fry cook but actually can't when it comes down to it.

and yet we never had situation, or had it so notorious to be visible where tank is queue as dps but we have it so often where tank is doing his tank job and same if not better job as dps in group because this dps is so bad

[snip] I've pugged a lot over the years. I have seen many instances where DPS have to step in as tanks or vice versa for many different reasons, and had to do it myself on several occasions. [snip]

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Sinolai · December 2020

Fake DPS

I am well prepared on my PUGs and can usually deal with fake healers and tanks when playing a dd. Unfortunately, while my tank can survive without a healer, he can't compensate for low dps that results into failing of mechanics.

zvavi · December 2020

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Your definition including every player makes your definition overly broad and useless. A failed definition. A correct definiton must actually include parameters that differiantes it from everything. There would be no separate queue in guild finder, no separate term, if a dps's job was to simply exist.

Uh, no, it's not that broad. It's just very simple and straightforward. Tank, control the boss. Healer, heal the wounded. DPS, do damage. Those are your primary functions. You only qualify as a fake if you sign up for a job that you refuse to do. That's the definition of the word "fake". Pretending to be something you are not.

Labeling every DPS that doesn't pass some arbitrary threshold a fake is exactly the same as labeling every cook in the world who isn't a five star Michelin chef a fake. It's conceited and arrogant ***.

no. no no no no no no no.
it is labeling any cook that cant find a job as a cook because he sucks in the kitchen, as not a cook. when he cant even make omelet (or any other dish) as well as any random guy that barely enters the kitchen, or has the proper tools for it, i am very sorry mate, he is not a cook. we aint expecting a five star Michelin chef. never did. we are expecting, no egg shells in our food, no burnt food. any cook that cant cook something without burning it will be fired in few days (or not even accepted), and is not a cook.

spartaxoxo · December 2020

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Your definition including every player makes your definition overly broad and useless. A failed definition. A correct definiton must actually include parameters that differiantes it from everything. There would be no separate queue in guild finder, no separate term, if a dps's job was to simply exist.

Uh, no, it's not that broad. It's just very simple and straightforward. Tank, control the boss. Healer, heal the wounded. DPS, do damage. Those are your primary functions. You only qualify as a fake if you sign up for a job that you refuse to do. That's the definition of the word "fake". Pretending to be something you are not.

Labeling every DPS that doesn't pass some arbitrary threshold a fake is exactly the same as labeling every cook in the world who isn't a five star Michelin chef a fake. It's conceited and arrogant ***.

Glurin

Yes. It is that broad. Combat pets automatically provide damage. Every tank provides damage. Every healer provides damage. Heck depending on your proc set, you can literally afk and provide damage. When the damage defined is any non-zero number than literally anyone is a dps that's playing thr game.

It's not elitism to say they need to be able to at least hit the numbers that are needed for a cleae. I am not saying they need to be able to be a Michelin chef (e.g. be a dps that can get a trifecta run easily). I am saying that they need to be able to do the bare minimum required to fulfil their most basic task. In your cooking example, they cannot just toss something in the oven and call it baking. They have to turn the oven on and put food in it so that something actually bakes. The minimum requirement in most dungeons can achieved literally by just using skills at random, they don't even need a rotation or good gear. It's not a high bar.

One of the examples I gave of a real dps that was merely bad was literally so bad at that dungeon that the group was better off with that dps dead at the final boss, an afk teammate causes less harm than one that constantly heals the boss. But the issue was not knowing how to break free, not damage so low we couldn't clear the rest of the dungeon. We did. Slowly but comfortably

Glurin · December 2020

Fake Tank

zvavi wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Your definition including every player makes your definition overly broad and useless. A failed definition. A correct definiton must actually include parameters that differiantes it from everything. There would be no separate queue in guild finder, no separate term, if a dps's job was to simply exist.

Uh, no, it's not that broad. It's just very simple and straightforward. Tank, control the boss. Healer, heal the wounded. DPS, do damage. Those are your primary functions. You only qualify as a fake if you sign up for a job that you refuse to do. That's the definition of the word "fake". Pretending to be something you are not.

Labeling every DPS that doesn't pass some arbitrary threshold a fake is exactly the same as labeling every cook in the world who isn't a five star Michelin chef a fake. It's conceited and arrogant ***.

no. no no no no no no no.
it is labeling any cook that cant find a job as a cook because he sucks in the kitchen, as not a cook. when he cant even make omelet (or any other dish) as well as any random guy that barely enters the kitchen, or has the proper tools for it, i am very sorry mate, he is not a cook. we aint expecting a five star Michelin chef. never did. we are expecting, no egg shells in our food, no burnt food. any cook that cant cook something without burning it will be fired in few days (or not even accepted), and is not a cook.

You have to hire them before you can fire them. During that time, they are indeed cooks. They take food and heat it up. That's a cook. It might kill you to eat what they serve you, but they are still cooks.

You can deny it all you want, but words have meaning. "Bad" is not the same as "fake".

Glurin · December 2020

Fake Tank

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Yes. It is that broad. Combat pets automatically provide damage. Every tank provides damage. Every healer provides damage. Heck depending on your proc set, you can literally afk and provide damage. When the damage defined is any non-zero number than literally anyone is a dps that's playing thr game.

Everyone technically is a DPS. The role simply says DPS is your focus. It does not in any way dictate how much you have to do, nor does it dictate that anyone not labeled as DPS is disallowed from doing any damage. It also does not dictate that DPS cannot buff or heal or revive or do anything other than do damage.

Again, words have meaning. Being bad at DPS does not in any way make you a fake DPS. Your basic premise is false.

zvavi · December 2020

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Your definition including every player makes your definition overly broad and useless. A failed definition. A correct definiton must actually include parameters that differiantes it from everything. There would be no separate queue in guild finder, no separate term, if a dps's job was to simply exist.

Uh, no, it's not that broad. It's just very simple and straightforward. Tank, control the boss. Healer, heal the wounded. DPS, do damage. Those are your primary functions. You only qualify as a fake if you sign up for a job that you refuse to do. That's the definition of the word "fake". Pretending to be something you are not.

Labeling every DPS that doesn't pass some arbitrary threshold a fake is exactly the same as labeling every cook in the world who isn't a five star Michelin chef a fake. It's conceited and arrogant ***.

no. no no no no no no no.
it is labeling any cook that cant find a job as a cook because he sucks in the kitchen, as not a cook. when he cant even make omelet (or any other dish) as well as any random guy that barely enters the kitchen, or has the proper tools for it, i am very sorry mate, he is not a cook. we aint expecting a five star Michelin chef. never did. we are expecting, no egg shells in our food, no burnt food. any cook that cant cook something without burning it will be fired in few days (or not even accepted), and is not a cook.

You have to hire them before you can fire them. During that time, they are indeed cooks. They take food and heat it up. That's a cook. It might kill you to eat what they serve you, but they are still cooks.

You can deny it all you want, but words have meaning. "Bad" is not the same as "fake".

if it would have been a real world situation, that cook is not generating money on his cook work, because people demand a refund on their overcooked egg shell full food. he is a cook, that doesnt make the restaurant money from cooking. he is a fake cook. not a bad cook. because he doesnt generate revenue. you can deny it as much as you want, but not only that "bad" cook will generate a loss from working as a "cook" he will soon find out he cant find a job as a cook in the real world. because he is not a real cook. for normals? sure. it is like kids playing make food. it is alright for food to come overcooked and with a bit of egg shells. but when you sign up for vet, aka working in a restaurant with others that have their own role, you better know how not to burn your dish. or else you will be fired immediately, because thats not cooking. thats ruining good ingredients (buffs and debuffs tanks+heals provide) when serving the ingredients are better served just fresh (tanks and healers focusing on dealing dmg instead...). that "fake" cook goes around restaurants trying to apply to a cook job advertising he can "cook" when in reality he cant. he is not a real cook.

Glurin · December 2020

Fake Tank

zvavi wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

zvavi wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Your definition including every player makes your definition overly broad and useless. A failed definition. A correct definiton must actually include parameters that differiantes it from everything. There would be no separate queue in guild finder, no separate term, if a dps's job was to simply exist.

Uh, no, it's not that broad. It's just very simple and straightforward. Tank, control the boss. Healer, heal the wounded. DPS, do damage. Those are your primary functions. You only qualify as a fake if you sign up for a job that you refuse to do. That's the definition of the word "fake". Pretending to be something you are not.

Labeling every DPS that doesn't pass some arbitrary threshold a fake is exactly the same as labeling every cook in the world who isn't a five star Michelin chef a fake. It's conceited and arrogant ***.

no. no no no no no no no.
it is labeling any cook that cant find a job as a cook because he sucks in the kitchen, as not a cook. when he cant even make omelet (or any other dish) as well as any random guy that barely enters the kitchen, or has the proper tools for it, i am very sorry mate, he is not a cook. we aint expecting a five star Michelin chef. never did. we are expecting, no egg shells in our food, no burnt food. any cook that cant cook something without burning it will be fired in few days (or not even accepted), and is not a cook.

You have to hire them before you can fire them. During that time, they are indeed cooks. They take food and heat it up. That's a cook. It might kill you to eat what they serve you, but they are still cooks.

You can deny it all you want, but words have meaning. "Bad" is not the same as "fake".

if it would have been a real world situation, that cook is not generating money on his cook work, because people demand a refund on their overcooked egg shell full food. he is a cook, that doesnt make the restaurant money from cooking. he is a fake cook. not a bad cook. because he doesnt generate revenue. you can deny it as much as you want, but not only that "bad" cook will generate a loss from working as a "cook" he will soon find out he cant find a job as a cook in the real world. because he is not a real cook.

You're still confusing the objective with the task. You can be a great cook and lose money. You can be a bad cook and make money. Make money, lose money, good cook, bad cook, whatever combination you put those in, you're still a cook. You took food, you heated it, you put it on a plate. You're a cook.

iksde · December 2020

Fake DPS

renne wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

renne wrote: »

yeah but if the janitor(tank) is going to do the fry cook(dps) job they'll be called a fry cook(dps) because that's literally what they're doing, not a fake fry cook(dps). they're a fake fry cook if they're a janitor and claim they can be a fry cook but actually can't when it comes down to it.

and yet we never had situation, or had it so notorious to be visible where tank is queue as dps but we have it so often where tank is doing his tank job and same if not better job as dps in group because this dps is so bad

janitor is going fo his job...but fry cooker is so bad at his job janitor is comming to do this job and is doing it better while at once cleaning place because work have to be done and janitor is doing for 2 people while fry cooker is pretending, faking his job because he is unable to his job if he cant cook anything but he is burning everything and then he is surprised why janitor is so upset on him when there was nobody other to do this job but it had to be done

Hey @iksde, you DON'T edit in words into comments that aren't there, especially not to intentionally misrepresent what someone said. In this case the janitor role is a DPS and the fry cook role is a tank and no amount of putting word into my comment to make it look like I meant something else will change the actual meaning.

I literally put a real life example below to illustrate what I meant, but I see you completely ignored that and just went with twisting my words instead. 🙄

hey, sorry but I guessed you mean to also reply to me when I started comparing fry cooker to janitor, I specially bolded added text to be visible what was added and I added this with my example of fry cooker as dps and janitor tank but because you used same jobs just under my post about that

Wolfkeks · December 2020

Depends... if I go into a dlc vet dungeon I tend to fail with a fake tank because of mechanics.
Normal vet dungeons prop dds if I'm on my tank or healer.

iksde · December 2020

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

renne wrote: »

yeah but if the janitor(tank) is going to do the fry cook(dps) job they'll be called a fry cook(dps) because that's literally what they're doing, not a fake fry cook(dps). they're a fake fry cook if they're a janitor and claim they can be a fry cook but actually can't when it comes down to it.

and yet we never had situation, or had it so notorious to be visible where tank is queue as dps but we have it so often where tank is doing his tank job and same if not better job as dps in group because this dps is so bad

[snip] I've pugged a lot over the years. I have seen many instances where DPS have to step in as tanks or vice versa for many different reasons, and had to do it myself on several occasions. [snip]

after and years for me playing this game - since beta with some breaks - I have never got into pug where someone on dps role was tank, if they was in tank setup - they definitelly didnt know how game even works for dungs becaue they literally didnt know anything what to do and how to use any skills in dung

on the other side everyone see somewhere a DPS queue as healer or tank, this become to be on daily to get it, to be normal but we never see support roles queue as DPS mainly becasue suport roles are not meant to deal damage and DPS queue is much longer than support role into dung

iksde · December 2020

Fake DPS

Glurin wrote: »

iksde wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Yeah, that's pretty much what a DPS is and what it has always been. You do damage, you are a DPS. The roles simply define your primary focus within the group. Tanks control the boss. That doesn't mean they can't also heal or do damage. Healers heal the wounded. That doesn't mean they can't also do damage or tank if needed. DPS simply means putting control and healing further down on your priority list. Nothing more.

and yet we are getting to where a tank specific role or healer, support specific role with full tank, healer or support gear is doing more damage than dps specific role player

That doesn't matter. I don't know how else to put this to get it though to you. Being bad at DPS doesn't make you a fake DPS. It just makes you bad at DPS.

and I dont know how else to explain it to you as many others also are trying

if you are so bad on dps then you are fake dps because true dps will have higher group damage than support roles and will be able to do dung with his dps while this fake dps called by you just "bad" dps wont be able pull his own in dung and he is literally just ball on chain for rest of the group and ust waste of space when tank who guess what.....is tankly, builded for survivability not for damage is actually doing more damage than glass cannon dps meant to do a siignificant higher damage than support roles which dont build for daamge done but for support, survivability, buffs...

Daemonai · December 2020

Just here to echo that there is no such thing as a fake DPS. The only way you can have a fake DPS is if the player does no damage the entire dungeon, otherwise, it is just bad DPS.