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Bots - Are they really after boss loot? Or something else?
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ShlemleySoul ShrivenMake the blue drop unique. Diminishing returns on the rest of the loot. Zero xp after first boss kill.
Stop the farming by crafters too. It is kind of like an exploit anyway.1 -
Mace✭✭They should just make it where if you stand still too long you die instantly then have to submit a help ticket in order to respawn.
2 seconds should be sufficient time.
Hahahaha naoooo not help tickets!
Give people at least 10 sec for making sammiches and p socking
People need the essentials.Edited by Mace on April 21, 2014 7:14PMMasce0 -
Gillysan✭✭✭✭
This should be part of any solution implemented. It will take more than GM's but GM's are needed now, not later.Jesus, the solution is simple, Hire GM's to ban the bots and gold spammers... This game is screwed if Zenimax isn't going to at least do this
Crafting Services http://tinyurl.com/GillysansStore Organizational Guide http://tinyurl.com/GillysansEnchanterLeveling
ESO Dwemer Ruins List
Dwemer Forum Thread0 -
Arsvita✭✭✭Many people have complained that bots are in the dungeons, farming boss loot to make money. I probably even complained too. ZeniMax plans to combat this by putting a timer on boss loot. But I think loot is only a part of the problem.
By watching these bots in dungeons, even up to the level 40 dungeons, I began thinking "Are these bots really only after loot?"
I often see similarly equipped people in dungeons and past level 40 they are always in groups of 2 or 3...but usually not more. Their names are not totally ridiculous like "wyhgdga", but rather names that might be considered normal. If they were just after loot, why not have a name like "ehehtetg"?
The reason is, I believe, that these bots are / will someday be real people's characters. They are power leveling off the boss. Or they are paying someone to power level them. The loot is just a bonus. They go from dungeon to dungeon until they get to level 50.
A bot probably couldn't power level as effectively outside because it would have to run around and find enemies and others could take them. But in a dungeon there is just 1 enemy, bots are guaranteed a good amount of exp, and the respawn rate is fast. This sounds like a good power-leveling strategy to me (if you are sleeping or at work / school).
So, what's my point? My point is that putting on a loot timer is not going stop the bots because that is not the only reason they are doing that. An EXP timer might also be a good idea (or something like that). Real players can go out into the world and find other ways to get EXP. It won't be as easy for bots.
What do you think?
I agree with the power leveling scheme as I have checked many of the names and they are not all efgajhgk.
Another issue I have seen, and it goes with some of the Leveling Schemes, is that some of the bots are "boxed".
Remember that the more people in a group, the better the loot.
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What about upscaling the bosses?
The main annoyance about the botters is that they are preventing normal players from getting even one hit in and from having a chance for a bite off the loot.
Other than that they are just making the landscape look less nice, which is sort of tolerable.
The problem of not getting any hits in can be solved if you upscale the hitpoints and also some other stats of the bosses, according to the number of players that are detected close around its respawn point. Maybe even overproportionally to make it even harder, the more people are there. That way you get longer, and more challenging bossfights - no matter how many people are actually around.
And every player gets his chance for loot and getting some hits of his own in.
As for the second part, the actualy removal of the botters from the game - taht should be done by GM's. If you can pay goldfarmers in China, you can surely pay some GMs from there for roughly the same money, can you?0 -
Wreaken✭✭✭Public Dungeon bosses drop a lot of soul gems, which sell for a lot.
My guess is this is the most fastest and efficient way for them to make gold to sell.
Taemek Frozenberg, Leader of <Epoch Gaming>
Oceanic - Australia1 -
TheGodless1✭✭✭pentiumradeon_ESO wrote: »They should add community moderators that play through the game regularly, while also banning all the bots. They could be paid with sub-time!
The ONLY issue I have with this is when we get a moderator it will mean moderating ALL of chat. Means all the kids shouting and making obscene remarks will start getting banned too. You moderate one thing, you gotta moderate it all.0 -
KJay1010Soul Shrivenhate the macros - bots. they should get banned immediately. so annoying.... can't even hit the boss and farming loots in legit way.1
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phOnyUK✭✭✭There are bots being used by players (non gold farmers) as well because they don't want to put in any effort. All it takes is a google search to find forums discussing the various bot programs and which one is "safer" and less obvious. Of course "fgfgfgfgr" is a gold farmer bot but today I've seen actual normal player names botting as well. They are almost always templars and ALL of them walk the same path and have the exact same glitches. I'm one of those players who will farm a public dungeon boss on occasion when I'm in there. If the bots are going to kill it for me, I'll tag it for easy loot. I don't have an issue with actual players farming the bosses but those bots frustrate me.
Public dungeon bosses are perfect for bot programs because those bosses spawn relatively fast and more often than not are in a safe area where nothing else is within aggro range. Soul gems sell incredibly well and stack to 100. In 30 mins you can get over 50 soul gems. Imagine how much gold a bot can make just off of soul gems in a 24 hour period.
Exactly how I feel.
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Anoteros✭✭✭✭/sigh
This topic is just going round and round in circles.
SIMPLE SOLUTION WHICH I'VE POSTED NUMEROUS TIMES.
1. Instance dungeons.
2. Option to scale based on solo or group play (doubt they'd have the ingenuity at ZOS to even attempt this)
3. Limit to how many dungeons can be cleared in an hour/30 minutes
4. ???
5. 5. PROFIT
THE END.
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Shaie✭✭✭I can help you out with #4
1. Instance dungeons to solo/group.
2. Option to scale based on solo or group play.
3. Limit how many times A BOSS can be killed in <x> time (for those instances with more than one boss, although I'm not sure if there are any).
4. Player/group MUST LEAVE DUNGEON in order for it to reset & must manually reset it.
5. Diminishing returns. (I'm guessing that's what you mean by profit.)
And to all those that are hollering, "OMG that will make them all go topside!!!!!!!!!!" may I just point out that a simple Google search will net you at the very least, dozens of videos showing exactly that. They're already topside, so changing the way dungeons are run will not make them go there, although it might possibly increase the amount that's currently there.
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Anoteros✭✭✭✭little_kitty_feetub17_ESO wrote: »I can help you out with #4
1. Instance dungeons to solo/group.
2. Option to scale based on solo or group play.
3. Limit how many times A BOSS can be killed in <x> time (for those instances with more than one boss, although I'm not sure if there are any).
4. Player/group MUST LEAVE DUNGEON in order for it to reset & must manually reset it.
5. Diminishing returns. (I'm guessing that's what you mean by profit.)
And to all those that are hollering, "OMG that will make them all go topside!!!!!!!!!!" may I just point out that a simple Google search will net you at the very least, dozens of videos showing exactly that. They're already topside, so changing the way dungeons are run will not make them go there, although it might possibly increase the amount that's currently there.
Limiting the number of dungeons that can be cleared in an hour/30 minutes is essentially limiting the amount of times boss/es can be killed as they wouldn't respawn unless the dungeon is reset (see WoW. Rift etc)
By profit i'm actually referring to players finally being happy :P
Not holding my breath waiting for anything like this to be implemented though.0 -
pentiumradeon_ESO wrote: »They should add community moderators that play through the game regularly, while also banning all the bots. They could be paid with sub-time!
I actually think that is an amzing idea0 -
Colbane✭✭I hate to say this, but as things stand right now, I can't in good conscience continue to play this game after my 30 days if we don't even hear something about this dungeon bot epidemic and exactly how they plan to solve the problem. My finger is hovering over the cancel subscription button right now.
Seriously, the first 30 days of an MMO can make or break it. I can live with bugs and downtime. I love this game! It really is fun, but you have to show more community support for this problem.Edited by Colbane on April 22, 2014 4:01AM1 -
7788b14_ESO✭✭✭I saw some lvl 5 bots in a lvl 30 area. They appeared to be doing quests. Had starting clothes and names like wpojvswe.0 -
Wreaken✭✭✭/sigh
This topic is just going round and round in circles.
SIMPLE SOLUTION WHICH I'VE POSTED NUMEROUS TIMES.
1. Instance dungeons.
No thanks, there is already Instanced dungeons in the game, there is no reason to effect these dungeons.2. Option to scale based on solo or group play (doubt they'd have the ingenuity at ZOS to even attempt this)
Again, no thanks, this feature already exists for instanced dungeons that are currently in game.3. Limit to how many dungeons can be cleared in an hour/30 minutes
No thanks, people are sick of playing the rat hole maze race with timers for such trivial content. These dungeons are designed to be fun and exciting with no consequences.4. ???
Hmm no idea what you meant here.5. PROFIT
How?
The simple fix is to make the dungeon become phased as soon as you kill the boss. Due to how some boss spawn mechanics are at later levels, you can only kill the boss of a public dungeon once in later dungeons until someone who hasn't killed it runs in to the room and spawns it again, so unless there is people running in who are new to the instance, no boss spawns. Therefor, simple fix is to phase out the people who have killed the boss and then the boss never spawns again for the people in that phase. Seeing as the game already uses a phase feature for dynamic content in regards to questing etc, this is a easy fix without reinventing the wheel.
Taemek Frozenberg, Leader of <Epoch Gaming>
Oceanic - Australia1 -
Anoteros✭✭✭✭
You do realise public dungeons are already instanced don't you?/sigh
This topic is just going round and round in circles.
SIMPLE SOLUTION WHICH I'VE POSTED NUMEROUS TIMES.
1. Instance dungeons.
No thanks, there is already Instanced dungeons in the game, there is no reason to effect these dungeons.2. Option to scale based on solo or group play (doubt they'd have the ingenuity at ZOS to even attempt this)
Again, no thanks, this feature already exists for instanced dungeons that are currently in game.3. Limit to how many dungeons can be cleared in an hour/30 minutes
No thanks, people are sick of playing the rat hole maze race with timers for such trivial content. These dungeons are designed to be fun and exciting with no consequences.4. ???
Hmm no idea what you meant here.5. PROFIT
How?
The simple fix is to make the dungeon become phased as soon as you kill the boss. Due to how some boss spawn mechanics are at later levels, you can only kill the boss of a public dungeon once in later dungeons until someone who hasn't killed it runs in to the room and spawns it again, so unless there is people running in who are new to the instance, no boss spawns. Therefor, simple fix is to phase out the people who have killed the boss and then the boss never spawns again for the people in that phase. Seeing as the game already uses a phase feature for dynamic content in regards to questing etc, this is a easy fix without reinventing the wheel.
/sigh
Nevermind, moving on.
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Wreaken✭✭✭
You do realise public dungeons are already instanced don't you?/sigh
This topic is just going round and round in circles.
SIMPLE SOLUTION WHICH I'VE POSTED NUMEROUS TIMES.
1. Instance dungeons.
No thanks, there is already Instanced dungeons in the game, there is no reason to effect these dungeons.2. Option to scale based on solo or group play (doubt they'd have the ingenuity at ZOS to even attempt this)
Again, no thanks, this feature already exists for instanced dungeons that are currently in game.3. Limit to how many dungeons can be cleared in an hour/30 minutes
No thanks, people are sick of playing the rat hole maze race with timers for such trivial content. These dungeons are designed to be fun and exciting with no consequences.4. ???
Hmm no idea what you meant here.5. PROFIT
How?
The simple fix is to make the dungeon become phased as soon as you kill the boss. Due to how some boss spawn mechanics are at later levels, you can only kill the boss of a public dungeon once in later dungeons until someone who hasn't killed it runs in to the room and spawns it again, so unless there is people running in who are new to the instance, no boss spawns. Therefor, simple fix is to phase out the people who have killed the boss and then the boss never spawns again for the people in that phase. Seeing as the game already uses a phase feature for dynamic content in regards to questing etc, this is a easy fix without reinventing the wheel.
/sigh
Nevermind, moving on.
Not instanced in the way you are thinking unfortunately.
Phased and instanced = two completely different things.
Taemek Frozenberg, Leader of <Epoch Gaming>
Oceanic - Australia1 -
Dodece✭✭✭There appears to be more then bot issues involving public dungeon bosses. At least three times today. I have gotten the achievement without ever having laid a finger on the boss. I just got it for being in the general vicinity. That said I think most if not all of you are overlooking the real problem. Which is that the bosses are complete pushovers.
It isn't just something that is being exploited, but something that makes playing the game less fun. Boss encounters be it public or instanced should be about a rewarding challenge. The real solution should be random mutations of the end boss into something truly heinous. Let the bots camp then, because it may be five or six spawns, but eventually the system will cough up a behemoth with instant death area attacks.
They could even do one better then that by instituting multiple levels or rarity. For example a bad boss spawns maybe once every twenty minutes, but a really really hard boss spawns every couple hours. Just imagine how much fun it would be for us rank and file players. If on occasion we have the good fortune to be running a dungeon when a super boss spawns, and all the real players congregate outside of its attack range. Getting ready to smear it once they have the numbers, or better yet having to work together to come up with a plan of attack.
Anyway turning the final bosses in public dungeons into jack in the box types would go a long way to combating campers, and to making those dungeons all that much more entertaining. They don't have to break anything. They just have to make it so auto play is counter productive. That it ultimately results in certain death.
I have played a few games where something like this was the case, and while I did see camping in those games. It was most certainly at the keyboard. Since the real prize was in the rare spawns. Rather then the mundane ones.1 -
Wreaken✭✭✭There appears to be more then bot issues involving public dungeon bosses. At least three times today. I have gotten the achievement without ever having laid a finger on the boss. I just got it for being in the general vicinity. That said I think most if not all of you are overlooking the real problem. Which is that the bosses are complete pushovers.
It isn't just something that is being exploited, but something that makes playing the game less fun. Boss encounters be it public or instanced should be about a rewarding challenge. The real solution should be random mutations of the end boss into something truly heinous. Let the bots camp then, because it may be five or six spawns, but eventually the system will cough up a behemoth with instant death area attacks.
They could even do one better then that by instituting multiple levels or rarity. For example a bad boss spawns maybe once every twenty minutes, but a really really hard boss spawns every couple hours. Just imagine how much fun it would be for us rank and file players. If on occasion we have the good fortune to be running a dungeon when a super boss spawns, and all the real players congregate outside of its attack range. Getting ready to smear it once they have the numbers, or better yet having to work together to come up with a plan of attack.
Anyway turning the final bosses in public dungeons into jack in the box types would go a long way to combating campers, and to making those dungeons all that much more entertaining. They don't have to break anything. They just have to make it so auto play is counter productive. That it ultimately results in certain death.
I have played a few games where something like this was the case, and while I did see camping in those games. It was most certainly at the keyboard. Since the real prize was in the rare spawns. Rather then the mundane ones.
While I agree with you that the bosses seem like they are push overs, that is not the case if you don't have help.
The dungeons are made to be solo able, some if not most of the bosses are quite a challenge for a solo fight. The only issue is, you are not really ever alone in a solo dungeon and if you can't kill the last boss solo, waiting a few minutes for someone to run along and help is not hard.
Taemek Frozenberg, Leader of <Epoch Gaming>
Oceanic - Australia0 -
There is little enough need to contact other players outside of 30 minute (Group) dungeons runs, so please keep public dungeons... public.
For new content introduce decent size dungeons with random boss spawn locations, rather than small 'circular loops' of dungeons would both add to the immersion of exploration for actual players and make it so the bots could not all simply crowd one spot.
For existing dungeons there should still be a randomised the spawn location, although the possible locations somewhat limited by small dungeon size.
The idea of community moderators both for dungeon bots and gold spammers is also a good one.0 -
why limit the loot? why spoil the game to all people? if I want equip and have the time, why should it be a problem?
Bots (software) can be traced, from this you need to start a fight. And checking popular places by admin also solve most problems.0 -
Wreaken✭✭✭Tristis Oris wrote: »why limit the loot? why spoil the game to all people? if I want equip and have the time, why should it be a problem?
Bots (software) can be traced, from this you need to start a fight. And checking popular places by admin also solve most problems.
Bots require a investigation process which takes time and can take the best part of a month if not months before the bots you see and report get banned which means the damage is already done.
One time only loot is an instant fix that sets them in their place and forces them to leave the dungeon when there is no other reason to be there.
You get enough loot drops from random mobs running quests.
Taemek Frozenberg, Leader of <Epoch Gaming>
Oceanic - Australia0 -
You can keep track of the program at the client level for the title process. MD5 hash, etc., and send warnings on these players. Bots do not work by themselves, or they use the game client or are they, why you need to pass the test signature. Banal methods can weed out most of the known programs.0
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KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
✭
It's called power-leveling and yes, it's another RMT 'service' .. and it's not just RMT, I saw a group of 4 botting the ghosts in Auridon (level 7-9) with perfectly sane names .. actually 2-4 English words rather than attempts at names .. which I expect is a multi-boxer who's cheating because in this game there's no /follow and this group was one leader and three 'following'.I often see similarly equipped people in dungeons and past level 40 they are always in groups of 2 or 3...but usually not more. Their names are not totally ridiculous like "wyhgdga", but rather names that might be considered normal. If they were just after loot, why not have a name like "ehehtetg"?
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Wreaken✭✭✭Tristis Oris wrote: »You can keep track of the program at the client level for the title process. MD5 hash, etc., and send warnings on these players. Bots do not work by themselves, or they use the game client or are they, why you need to pass the test signature. Banal methods can weed out most of the known programs.
Then they upgrade the program and go again.
Bans take too long to take effect and again, once they do get banned, it is too late, they have already made a few thousand dollars from that account. To make any kind of difference, bans need to go out fast enough to make it not viable or economically feasible for them to keep doing it, alternatively, they steal the accounts, which becomes free profit.
Banning is only a band aid fix, it does not solve the problem. you need to have an in game solution that fits the legit player but effects the bots, which is a hard sword to swing without falling on your own sword.
Taemek Frozenberg, Leader of <Epoch Gaming>
Oceanic - Australia0 -
Thete✭✭✭There are bots being used by players (non gold farmers) as well because they don't want to put in any effort. All it takes is a google search to find forums discussing the various bot programs and which one is "safer" and less obvious.
This is it really. They're not a paid for powerlevelling group. How many mails and adverts ion zone chat have you seen advertising power levelling? I've personally seen none to the thousands of adverts selling gold.MMO PvE veteran looking for suitable guild:
forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/72899/mmo-pve-veteran-looking-for-suitable-guild-ebonheart-pact-templar-eu#latest0 -
Then they upgrade the program and go again.
Of course not everything is so simple. should sit on the forums where these programs apply to get a new version. But this does not mean that the bot can not be traced. Given that the game uses phasing and solo dungeons, many bots no one ever sees.
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Gwarok✭✭✭
They are all over the place in Sanguine's DemesneI only see the Bots in areas like Stonefalls "For ebonheart" possibly deeshan, but i have yet to see a bot in Shadowfen dungeons.....Edited by Gwarok on April 22, 2014 7:55AM"Strive for balance of all things. When the scales tip to one side or the other, someone or somethings gets short-changed. When someone gets short-changed, unpredictability and strife unbalance the world around us...To achieve freedom from greed, from want, and from strife, all parties in any exchange MUST find balance." -House Hlaalu's Philosophy of Trade
"I am ALWAYS very busy, so I KNOW what's best. You need to stay away from the waterfall. TRUST ME, you're better off keeping busy than playing in the stream....Do you know how to swim, Little Scrib?"
"I am but a simple farmer". -Rags'nar LodesBroke
#SKOOMA!
(Juliet):
...it is nor hand, nor foot,
Nor arm, nor face, nor any other part
Belonging to a man.
O, be some other name!
What's in a name?
That which we call a rose?
By any other name would smell as sweet.
Retain that dear perfection to which he owes...
(Act II, Scene II -William Shakespeare's: Romeo & Juliet -1595 A.D.)0 -
martinhpb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've seen bots but I have also seen regular players camping and farming dungeon bosses too. I know they wernt bots because they looked in bags and moved around etc.
I gave it a go myself and in 10 mins I got around 20 healing pots, a couple of blues and soul gems. then I got bored.
As it stands at the moment it is far to easy to farm bosses as either a boss or regular player.
Edited by martinhpb16_ESO on April 22, 2014 9:01AMAt least the spelling is difficult for you.
Hew's Bane*0