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Bots - Are they really after boss loot? Or something else?
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User3rr0rSoul ShrivenThis could be solved so easily. Just make the world dungeons solo. Then make it to where you must clear all the trash in the dungeon in order to get the boss to spawn. Once you have killed the boss for the first time you get xp but no loot. After the boss is killed you may invite up to 3 party members who can then port into the dungeon. Once all party members are loaded into the dungeon a chest spawns randomly somewhere within the dungeon along with an even more powerful boss which can only be beaten in a particular way such at only with spell damage/healing the boss/physical damage. Once that boss is defeated the chest which was previously locked becomes unlocked and lootable. In order to run the dungeon again everyone must leave the dungeon disband and wait for someone to reclear the dungeon and defeat the first boss and then reform the group, but no loot or xp is gained from running it after the first time.
Such a simple solution.1 -
Aci✭✭✭You know what happened when instancing was introduced to MMOs? "OMG, this is a horrible idea! There won't be any socializing anymore. You may as well just make (*insert MMO*) a single player game."
Then, sometime after WoW was released and everyone was trying to copy it, instancing became ridiculously common. So common that there were some complaints that the games lost their expansive feel or that they felt incredibly lonely for being "massively multiplayer".
ESO saw this and took one small step back, making some dungeons public rather than private instances. This did bring back some of the social aspect at the cost of having to deal with boss farmers and bots. Personally, I like it even with the problems. First because it does feel a little bit more multiplayer and second because they didn't make every dungeon public. They struck a balance rather than go just one way or the other.
YES and YES. But! The public dungeons are designed to be single player. To be single player with a lot more people in there the same time? I dont get this logic. When im entering these dungeons i barely see any mobs nore a boss to kill. Oh wait - he dies in less than 1 second so often. In words: ONE second.
I agree with you but there must be a change somehow, lets say mobs scale with player numbers or something.
Ontopic: I think the "normal" named bots are actually players that prefer to do easy level and money while afk. Not every bot is a gold seller.
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dennissomb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Some of the normal names are simply players who are trying to get a hit in through the mass of botters so they can get their achievement/blue drop. This can take quite a while in the lower end dungeons that are dominated by massive amount of botters2 -
Uncle_Bob✭✭The boss at the end is required to complete the dungeon and get the achievement. Why not just remove XP gain from that boss all together and add it in addition to the dungeon completion XP gain? That way, you get XP for the first kill, but none after.
Or, add a kill counter for each account and when it passes a certain threshold, it pops a red flag for a GM to investigate the account for possible botting and/or gold farming. Use it as a bot catcher.
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crush83✭✭✭✭No one is power leveling from farming bosses 24/7. The spawn rate isn't THAT good. They are selling the soul gems, and destructing the blues for crafting mats.Edited by crush83 on April 21, 2014 1:30PM1
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p3dr042Soul ShrivenI thought it pretty obvious they were power levelling, I wouldn't call it that tho. They would level extremely slow compared to running quests.. I was doing 1 level per hour between levels 10-20. They are killing 1 mob every 30 seconds given them mayb 1 level a day?! Not efficient enough to be called power, these people are Lazy Levelling. We'll see the end-game noobs appear sometime next month I predict. Its the same with every game tho.. its up to guilds/groups to recognise a lvl 50 who doesn't know how to play and kick them from the group :P0
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Gillysan✭✭✭✭
Ummmm, this is exactly how people reached L50 by the end of day 1 of early access. They weren't bots either. They were players who went from dungeon to dungeon in about a 16 hour marathon. People were openly talking about it in zone chat.No one is power leveling from farming bosses 24/7. The spawn rate isn't THAT good. They are selling the soul gems, and destructing the blues for crafting mats.
Waste of money in my opinion, buy a game fly past all the content, but to each his own.Edited by Gillysan on April 21, 2014 1:38PMCrafting Services http://tinyurl.com/GillysansStore Organizational Guide http://tinyurl.com/GillysansEnchanterLeveling
ESO Dwemer Ruins List
Dwemer Forum Thread0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭
Ummmm, this is exactly how people reached L50 by the end of day 1 of early access. They weren't bots either. They were players who went from dungeon to dungeon in about a 16 hour marathon. People were openly talking about it in zone chat.No one is power leveling from farming bosses 24/7. The spawn rate isn't THAT good. They are selling the soul gems, and destructing the blues for crafting mats.
Waste of money in my opinion, buy a game fly past all the content, but to each his own.
LOL. No.
Those guys were exploiting broken spawn mechanics that would force the boss to spawn instantly over and over again. They don't do that now. They respawn at an average rate of about once every 1-5 minutes now.0 -
bigjeff✭✭they are there to annoy the snot outer you, I get to the end room to find 12 bots killing the boss as soon as it zones in , its REALLY annoying , sometimes I've had to wait up to 30 mins to kiss a end boss which should take 60 seconds tops ,its getting to the point that I've a quest has a mine or dungeon in it I just click off it, there's no god dam point its going to be bot city down there0
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Alestair✭✭I only see the Bots in areas like Stonefalls "For ebonheart" possibly deeshan, but i have yet to see a bot in Shadowfen dungeons.....0
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Reymas✭✭✭✭I was actually surprised that open dungeon bosses don't work like other phasing aspects, ie: once you've killed that boss you enter a phase wher that boss is dead and anyone who hasn't killed the boss who is in that open dungeon is invisible to you and vice versa. To be clear, if you have the achievement for killing the boss and/or you got loot from them, that boss never shows up for you again.
Done and dusted.0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭I've seen bots in every dungeon/cave all the way into Eastmarch now. There are at least 6-7 bots in each. And yes, I've been in all of them because I'm a completionist. Now they are starting to stand directly on top of each other so that it's harder to target them to report them.
They've also incorporated a knockback skill, with ranged weapons. They'll execute a knockback move, then immediately switch to a bow, and shoot the boss down before real players can move to the new location and get hits in.
They aren't farming for XP. This is purely about loot.Edited by crush83 on April 21, 2014 1:44PM1 -
Davorn✭✭I love chaining the boss away from them. It is about the only way I can manage to get a "hit" on the boss before it dies. I can't wait till they find a way to kill these bots off.0
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Ashtaris✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Last night I was in Softloam Cavern with my wife while she was trying to kill the Boss in that cavern. I'm a level 24 player, and she is at level 8 right now. I was just standing around watching the situation because I really didn't need the extra loot at the moment, and she wanted to get the achievement. I felt sorry for her because she tried 4 or 5 times but she maybe only get one hit in before the boss was dead. I'm not sure how many of those other players were bots, but I'm sure a few of them were. Also I noticed plenty of other higher level players (20 and above) that were there hitting on the boss for the loot. Anyway, she finally gave up, and I don't blame her. I'm also finding it more and more difficult to get the dungeon achievements because of the boss camping and bots.
One thing I was wondering about, does the boss drop loot for even the higher level players? For example, if you are in a level 1 - 10 dungeon, do level 20 players get loot if they participate in the kill?1 -
crush83✭✭✭✭I was actually surprised that open dungeon bosses don't work like other phasing aspects, ie: once you've killed that boss you enter a phase wher that boss is dead and anyone who hasn't killed the boss who is in that open dungeon is invisible to you and vice versa. To be clear, if you have the achievement for killing the boss and/or you got loot from them, that boss never shows up for you again.
Done and dusted.
That's not even close to a fair mechanic, unless you are suggesting that the boss should drop the rare loot on the first kill everytime.
No, a much better system is a true diminishing returns system with a cooldown window.
Each time you kill the boss within that cooldown window, the cooldown timer gets refreshed.
The more times you kill the boss within the cooldown window, the weaker the loot you will get.
It's quite simple. This isn't a new concept. It's been implemented in games for a long time.
No, one-and-done on bosses is not a good idea. Throttling how often you can get loot from them is though.Edited by crush83 on April 21, 2014 1:53PM0 -
PVT_Parts✭✭✭As a boss farmer myself, I can tell you that boss grinding is by far NO effective way to level. I'm lvl 33 right now. I get maybe 1/10 of a level per bag of loot (about an hour of farming) so 10 hour to a lvl or just do quests for an hour to get a lvl. If they were power leveling their characters (stop calling them toons, this is ESO not cartoon WOW) they would have them do quests or even grind at places that had more mobs. It's faster to lvl by grinding on mobs that you don't have to wait to respawn.2 -
They're after me lucky charms, damn botters.|----Cometh' at me bro'eth.--- Aldmeri Dominion NA, Veteran,----|
| -~Bug reporter extraordinaire-~|1 -
Rainingblood✭✭✭Regular players farm bosses too. I'm not sure why. In the same amount of time you could gain half a level from questing and probably get a drop that would be an upgrade to anything you got off a public dungeon boss. But to each their own.Phoebe Anderson0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭Rainingblood wrote: »Regular players farm bosses too. I'm not sure why. In the same amount of time you could gain half a level from questing and probably get a drop that would be an upgrade to anything you got off a public dungeon boss. But to each their own.
I farm bosses for the blues that I can deconstruct and get the rare upgrade mats. I usually leave after 5-6 blues drop though because it gets frustrating dealing with the bots.Edited by crush83 on April 21, 2014 2:02PM0 -
Aci✭✭✭Rainingblood wrote: »Regular players farm bosses too. I'm not sure why. In the same amount of time you could gain half a level from questing and probably get a drop that would be an upgrade to anything you got off a public dungeon boss. But to each their own.
Its simply to make gold out of selling the stuff or to salvage it for crafting issues or both.0 -
Kyosji✭✭✭How much EXP do you atcually get off a bos vs other mobs around it? I was testing this out yesterday with the boss surrounded by ogres in the level 26-28 zone (can't remember the name), but it seemed, with the add-on I had, I was getting around the same amount of XP killing him as I would a Ogre in the cave (roughly 120xp). Anyone else able to see the amount of XP you get vs what's around you?1 -
PaulD✭✭✭It's odd to me how little checking is being done on the information coming from the game client. I mean really, teleport bots?
If ((not moving to shrine) or (not moving from shrine)) and (distance > 30 feet horizontal) exit game
This isn't the 60's, it's not rocket science any more. Crashing out of the game is the fastest way to punish bots.2 -
Kyosji✭✭✭It's odd to me how little checking is being done on the information coming from the game client. I mean really, teleport bots?
If ((not moving to shrine) or (not moving from shrine)) and (distance > 30 feet horizontal) exit game
This isn't the 60's, it's not rocket science any more. Crashing out of the game is the fastest way to punish bots.
Could you imagine the posts on the forums, lol.
"Please to you help! Message to game when play shut crash when playing. Show horizontal > 30 when move fight boss. Help please! Sorry No English good!"0 -
crush83✭✭✭✭This isn't the 60's, it's not rocket science any more. Crashing out of the game is the fastest way to punish bots.
No. You don't understand how most bots are made. The sophisticated bots don't even use the Zenimax client. They simply receive and send packets to Zenimax's server. It's a completely custom application that Zenimax has no hand in designing. Crashing the client is not an acceptable solution because you can't crash these custom clients like that.
What is an acceptable solution, and is done in pretty much every Client/Server model game, is checking that moving from point A to point B is actually possible on the server side, which a bot can't control. That is, there is nothing blocking the route (that means loading statics on the server side to and doing some simple ray casting). Make sure that they can move from point A to point B in the amount of time they are moving.
All this stuff should be regulated server side. This is rule #1 of Client/Server model. NEVER EVER TRUST THE CLIENT.Edited by crush83 on April 21, 2014 2:13PM1 -
AluoSoul ShrivenYou want a solution.... fine the master is in the house I will give you one.
1) Turn off ALL XP for Boss mobs in Solo Dungeons...
2) Make loot drop from THE ACHIEVEMENT of killing the boss NOT THE BOSS..
With these 2 simple changes that can be made in no time at all you will kill the bots spam killing the boss for slow XP, and you will kill the need to farm the boss for loot since you will get loot only 1 time for killing the boss and it will be rewarded via in game mail.
/flipstable RAWR IM LIKE A BOSS!!!!!
No but really.... I just fixed your little problem in about 5min..... get some code monkey on that solution and feel free to give me a call and hire me for your Creative Development Team
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Kyosji✭✭✭You want a solution.... fine the master is in the house I will give you one.
1) Turn off ALL XP for Boss mobs in Solo Dungeons...
2) Make loot drop from THE ACHIEVEMENT of killing the boss NOT THE BOSS..
With these 2 simple changes that can be made in no time at all you will kill the bots spam killing the boss for slow XP, and you will kill the need to farm the boss for loot since you will get loot only 1 time for killing the boss and it will be rewarded via in game mail.
/flipstable RAWR IM LIKE A BOSS!!!!!
No but really.... I just fixed your little problem in about 5min..... get some code monkey on that solution and feel free to give me a call and hire me for your Creative Development Team
This would be fine, as long as everyone gets the same loot. But once you do that, the game feels very cheap and generic.1 -
crush83✭✭✭✭Diminishing returns on loot > than one-and-done simplistic idea.
Seriously. What happens when you don't get that blue on your first roll? SOL? Everyone gets it on first roll? Like said above. That's cheap.
Diminishing returns or bust.0 -
If it is a script that is attached to their version of the Client, then they should employ Hackshield or Gameguard or similar. Might take a while to log on and it may be effect add-ons, but it will make scripted bots go away, especially the spamming ones.
Looping mouse macro bots are another problem. These could sorted out by game mechanics or even an invisible GM who observes takes a video for evidence and then goes for a full IP and account ban. I'm sure this would only take a few days.
On the whole problem will be sorted expect for a very few nasty hackers.
When the free period ends, just watch out for the flood of phishing emails.
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