Thechuckage wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I’m seeing so many people challenging the 3 hours it take to get to rank 5 here’s the thing it really doesn’t matter vigor In slot 1 is simply better for the health of PvP then Rapids In slot 1.

You can push the front lines rapids help moving to the next keep but you can also just defend what your alliance has both give you AP one just leads to scrolls and Emp and the other doesn’t.

If you want your 6% stat buff you have to do undaunted for Undaunted Mettle, if you want trial gear you must do the trial, if you want Dawnbreaker you have to break anchors and the undead over and over and over again. If you want the powers, passives and sets you must do the content to unlock it this is no different.

Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.

Just seems to be a literal case of "I don't want a solution, I want to be mad" when it comes to players suggestions to just grind out that AP.

We cant go and change the code back, only ZoS could. Everyone responding with the getting vigor shouldn't be/have been and issue as it used to stand, what is your end-goal? Is the thought something along the line of - We get a united front and they HAVE to listen to us?

An explanation behind their reasoning would be nice but as vMA showed, the community likely wont get it. Or the change you desire.

this is allpretty much off the top of my head...

I don't think it's a case of "just wanting to be mad" It's not in my case anyway. It's more that grinding out AP on 11+ (yes they're all actually played, god help me) characters isn't much of a solution. I've timed it out and it would most likely be over 40 hours... I pretty much loathe the BGs in this game, Cyrodil is good when it runs well, but it's still alot of time in Cryo on a slow horse. and Cyro may or may not be working well

I could just buy the line as it's maxed on a few of my actual PvP oriented characters but I'm not going to cave and reward ZOS for this.

As for pushing ZOS for a solution?
I don't think many people that have been playing the game for a while are under any real illusion that the feedback they're giving is going to get ZOS to change anything on this specific issue. (it would be great and the correct thing to do but it's isn't likely)
That doesn't mean everyone should just shut up and accept it though. Players giving negative feedback on this will hopefully slow down the monetization practices that are increasingly detrimental to actual game. It's not going to stop it (mmos seem to have a life cycle that ends with the company increasingly monetizing game play aspects ending in full on P2win, we're not there yet) but it might slow it down a bit. Also the devs might actually pay attention to the feedback and thus it might influence future decisions. hey, it could happen...

that's my answer to your question about an "end goal" more stream of conciousness following

Everyone that's been negatively affected by this still has to make a choice, either accept the change and grind out the AP on every character that needs rapids, change how they approach the game possibly abandoning some characters and not rolling any new ones for a while if at all, or possibly just moving on. I know there a quite a few people that have just left the game over this like there were with the Morrowind sustain nerfs, the VMA weapon regrind, etc...

I know I've cancelled my ESO+ over this (been subbed since launch) and will probably abandon some lowbie characters (i'll just use them for inventory space if needed since the boosts are going away). The change will definitely affect my engagement with the game and I doubt I'll be spending much if any money on it in the future. I've got enough crowns from the subs to buy any content I still want after the actual subscription runs out. I might just move on though, it's not like there aren't plenty of other games to play or other things to do. I would miss some of the people though.

finally, The whole thing would actually have irritated me less if ZOS would have stepped up and admited the change was at least partially about money. There's apparently multi-player mount coming soon and ZOS was told of many other ways that Vigor could have been made available to players earlier without removing Rapids from anyone. I just do not believe that ZOS made this change in all innocence to help the leveling process for stam characters, most of my characters are stam builds.

I could probably rattle on for a while yet, but I think that pretty much covers it.

Nightblades have Leaching Strikes, and any Stam toon can also use 2H Rally.

Vigor is useful, but not for leveling a brand-new character necessarily. It doesn't need to come before Rapids.

Thechuckage wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I’m seeing so many people challenging the 3 hours it take to get to rank 5 here’s the thing it really doesn’t matter vigor In slot 1 is simply better for the health of PvP then Rapids In slot 1.

You can push the front lines rapids help moving to the next keep but you can also just defend what your alliance has both give you AP one just leads to scrolls and Emp and the other doesn’t.

If you want your 6% stat buff you have to do undaunted for Undaunted Mettle, if you want trial gear you must do the trial, if you want Dawnbreaker you have to break anchors and the undead over and over and over again. If you want the powers, passives and sets you must do the content to unlock it this is no different.

Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.

Just seems to be a literal case of "I don't want a solution, I want to be mad" when it comes to players suggestions to just grind out that AP.

We cant go and change the code back, only ZoS could. Everyone responding with the getting vigor shouldn't be/have been and issue as it used to stand, what is your end-goal? Is the thought something along the line of - We get a united front and they HAVE to listen to us?

An explanation behind their reasoning would be nice but as vMA showed, the community likely wont get it. Or the change you desire.

I'm not sure spending a literal equivalent of a standard work week, just to get back a skill you've been using for years, on alts you've been using for years is a good solution.

they HAVE changed these balanced pass type things before, after community response (that they didn't back down on VMA doesn't discount the times when community DID manage to get them to change their minds), so its what people are hoping for.

my solution, personaly should the changes not happen? playing those alts less, which as a result means less gold to spend on crown stuff which indirectly means that ZoS gets less profit out of me. because i'm not going to spend THAT much of my gametime on something I only enjoy doing selectively, on specific characters when mood strikes me - on alts that are NOT set up for it at all. but that's just me.

Agreed they have changed things in the past that the community pointed out. The great DoT miscalculation. But the difference I see, that was imbalancing the game, to a hefty degree. I dont see rapids throwing everything out of wack.

In cold-blooded economics, someone else will probably buy those crates instead of you. The only thing that would really cause a money drain is cancelling subs or less players online. Servers have to run with 5 players or 500. Better on their end to have more players (in so far as the poor hamsters can handle) so the interest stays up.

quite possible. I'm under no illusion that i'm "sticking it to the man!" its merely a personal choice as a result of a change that makes certain activities less fun for me. its also possible that the sentence right after may also happen in large enough numbers. will it? I cannot and will not claim. but it is possible. and if it does happen, then who knows... rapids is enough of a quality of life feature for a good amount of people that its not an impossibility.

Anfieldkris wrote: »

esotoon wrote: »

Anfieldkris wrote: »

However, on a super crappy character with no advantages at all, was possible to get to rank 5 within 3 hours by being in a busy campaign and using siege gear, death spawns and delve buffs.

How long would it have taken if you hadn't lucked out with the hammer and got a large D Tick, and the AP from three objectives from it?

And here's the thing. Even if for arguments sake, you can guarantee getting to Level 5 in 3 hours of PVP as it is now. You would get to level 5 faster than that had you been given rapids first, as you would be able to get to those delve buffs, those quests, and get to objectives 30% faster. So if the argument for supporting this change is "It doesn't take long to get rapids, so what does it matter?", well it was even quicker to get Vigor.

Completely agree with you esotoon, with a levelled horse, access to gear, rapids it would have been much faster as you say. Would certainly have got to the resources around the keeps, and still reached the next keep in time. Was just suggesting that a crap character can do it in 3 hours through primarily defence, siege etc. There is a massive amount of exaggeration in this thread about things taking amount of time which is unrealistic, probably in both directions IMO.

You're probably right, though how savvy someone is about PVP or BGs does make a large difference. It your clueless about it (perhaps because you hate it), it will probably take quite a bit longer. I'm pretty sure you can do it in 3 hours in BGs too (I already did it on a toon in less time, though we came in 1st which is a pretty big differeance), even with a crap character if you know what you are doing & you get fair RNG. Still 3 hours (getting lucky) * 48 toons is a freaking long time. And there is NO HYPERBOLE THERE.

heaven13 wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I’m seeing so many people challenging the 3 hours it take to get to rank 5 here’s the thing it really doesn’t matter vigor In slot 1 is simply better for the health of PvP then Rapids In slot 1.

You can push the front lines rapids help moving to the next keep but you can also just defend what your alliance has both give you AP one just leads to scrolls and Emp and the other doesn’t.

If you want your 6% stat buff you have to do undaunted for Undaunted Mettle, if you want trial gear you must do the trial, if you want Dawnbreaker you have to break anchors and the undead over and over and over again. If you want the powers, passives and sets you must do the content to unlock it this is no different.

Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.

You can't defend a keep if no one shows up. If you're on an alliance that has been pushed back to its 3 home keeps while the other two make efforts to dethrone/throne Emp around the ring, you're stuck trying to ride to where the action is. Sure, you can sit in your keep and hope that someone eventually comes for you, but that sure isn't a good use of your time.

Vigor in slot 1 does nothing for the "health" of PvP unless by health you mean easy kills from people who are only in Cyro long enough to get rapids. It's about as effective as getting people interested in PvP as the anniversary event and we all know how that goes. Killing people uninterested and unprepared does nothing for the health of PvP. As has already been stated, having rapids first is actually more helpful for people interested in Cyro because they can get to fights and participate.

Stamina build with stamina class heals really need Vigor that's the PvP health part, and look you can made it over blown as you want to but simple facts are simple. You don't need rapids it's a 30% speed buff a 0% horse will still be slow and a 60% horse will still be fast if your horse was too slow to get you to the front line without rapids your horse is just slow!

GETTING TO A FIGHT ONLY TO DIE CAUSE THE WEAPON SKILL LINE HEALS YOU HAVE ARE NOT ENOUGH IS NOT GOOD FOR PVP HEALTH great you got there 30% faster, just to not have enough heals to stay in the fight +30% horse speed means nothing if you can't fight a ganker or get to the inner door fast enough 40% extra running speed for 8 seconds will not help you deal with the DoTs on you. Most weapon heals (only good heals some stamina classes have) need you to be mid fight to work.

So please stop trying to make the case that this is bad for PvP. An on call that needs no target to take damage for it to work is FAR more useful then +30% mount speed.

tmbrinks wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I’m seeing so many people challenging the 3 hours it take to get to rank 5 here’s the thing it really doesn’t matter vigor In slot 1 is simply better for the health of PvP then Rapids In slot 1.

You can push the front lines rapids help moving to the next keep but you can also just defend what your alliance has both give you AP one just leads to scrolls and Emp and the other doesn’t.

If you want your 6% stat buff you have to do undaunted for Undaunted Mettle, if you want trial gear you must do the trial, if you want Dawnbreaker you have to break anchors and the undead over and over and over again. If you want the powers, passives and sets you must do the content to unlock it this is no different.

Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

[snip]

If you want a PvP skill line reward you have to do enough PvP to unlock same as every other skill

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I’m seeing so many people challenging the 3 hours it take to get to rank 5 here’s the thing it really doesn’t matter vigor In slot 1 is simply better for the health of PvP then Rapids In slot 1.

You can push the front lines rapids help moving to the next keep but you can also just defend what your alliance has both give you AP one just leads to scrolls and Emp and the other doesn’t.

If you want your 6% stat buff you have to do undaunted for Undaunted Mettle, if you want trial gear you must do the trial, if you want Dawnbreaker you have to break anchors and the undead over and over and over again. If you want the powers, passives and sets you must do the content to unlock it this is no different.

Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

[snip]

If you want a PvP skill line reward you have to do enough PvP to unlock same as every other skill

This isn't about it being in a PvP skill line. That's fine, I'd have done the PvP if that is what was required of me.

It's about them CHANGING IT... and doing the UNPRECEDENTED thing of REMOVING AN EARNED SKILL. They haven't done that before.

I'd be upset about it no matter what skill line or content they did it in.

You're arguing another thing, which is completely different than the issue at hand.

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I’m seeing so many people challenging the 3 hours it take to get to rank 5 here’s the thing it really doesn’t matter vigor In slot 1 is simply better for the health of PvP then Rapids In slot 1.

You can push the front lines rapids help moving to the next keep but you can also just defend what your alliance has both give you AP one just leads to scrolls and Emp and the other doesn’t.

If you want your 6% stat buff you have to do undaunted for Undaunted Mettle, if you want trial gear you must do the trial, if you want Dawnbreaker you have to break anchors and the undead over and over and over again. If you want the powers, passives and sets you must do the content to unlock it this is no different.

Imagine PvPer wanting Undaunted to be faster cause they just with Undaunted Mettle... wait you don’t have to in fact not just Mettle. Like “just learn the mechanics and do it” has been the standard reply given to PvPer when ever they complain about the length of any PvE content. So just learn the mechanics of PvP and do it.
The way you hate PvP with a passion that how most PvPer feel about PvE difference is we are forced to PvE and you’re complaining that just in 6 years you never did more then the intro quest for PvP and now it not fair that you have to level half the skill line. This would never work for PvPer is they had switched Undaunted skills around.

[Quoted post was removed]

[Quoted post was removed]

[snip]

If you want a PvP skill line reward you have to do enough PvP to unlock same as every other skill

Funny since you no longer have to do any pvp to get vigor you literally can do the tutorial quest to get it same as rapids used to be but no longer is.

Hey wait a minute...do I sense sarcasm?

Thechuckage wrote: »

tmbrinks wrote: »

Thechuckage wrote: »

Like when they re-ordered DK skills? Trading around chains and lash?

yup, my DK tank still has the lock icon on his chains from the move. I can still equip it and use it. If I were to respec, I would have to re-level the skill, but I can still use it.

Im assuming you have the skill tree maxed? Then it makes sense to still have the skill.
Thats what happened with rapids, skill was moved internally within the tree. It just a different/more painful path to level the tree.

the lock icon is still on chains so apparently the line isn't maxed

or there is no skill point allocated to the skill and it shouldn't be able to be equipped for that reason

or the game's just bugged in a way I wasn't aware of before

zaria wrote: »

TrelNord wrote: »

I'll admit that it wasn't clear to me that characters that already had Rapids would lose rapids with this change but the math makes sense.

It doesn't affect me greatly given that my lower level characters are primarily mules anyway. I do have to say that I was surprised to see that the skill had been removed however.

Shame on me for not being a better consumer of the PTS patch notes and the ubiquitous woe and gnashing of teeth around this topic for the past few weeks.

I am positive that this is nothing that a visit to the Crown Store won't fix.

To buy the skill line you have to level it up to level assault up to 10 who is not something people who hate PvP will do.
Don't affect me I think, might be one one character who don't have assault 5 but doubt it and if I do I just join an zerg with an resto staff

Good luck with that. It is very important that you do it right now, because as soon as the mad crowd finishes grinding out the Rapids skill, you and your resto staff will be farmed like a corn field. New characters have no skills in the Alliance war tree, and now for a full 5 ranks you will move 30% slower. you are literally "low hanging fruit." You will finally arrive at the keep, resource, or anything else only to watch the rest of the zerg move to the next, as the point is taken, and you receive nothing. No "zerg" moves in slomo ever.
I am sorry to be harsh, but your comment lacks any type of factual representation of what will actually occur. This was a very poorly planned out "revamp" of the skills. Why? You are a new person, you hit level 10 and bolt off into Cyrodiil, after all they explain to you exactly how to join, almost seems like you should. You see the big map, lots of cool things to do, and you do your tutorial. Where once you got rapids and could keep up with the rest of cyrodiil, now you are the slow, weak player that Gankers love to hunt. But "I'm a stamina character and I have a heal now!" you say? Yes, yes you do! 343 hps for 8 seconds. lol When A NB runs you down on foot and dismounts you and wtf kills you over and over and over, the new person is going to log out of Cyrodiil and not come back

nukk3r wrote: »

Sgrug wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

abigfishy wrote: »

So we PVE players should all look forward to many hours of hideous abuse, name calling and toxic insults one EACH character just so we can actually travel about at a decent speed on a new character? Who thought this was a good idea?

This is the same for PvP player that hate PvE one shots from bosses and PvE logic is not fun for PvP players. The toxic and ohh look I was kicked from group for not knowing City of Ash happens. PvP player that do as little PvE as possible face this when they are forced to PvE for bind on pick up gear.

tmbrinks wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Quite the opposite. For someone who does not PvP, rapids cannot be gained anymore.

Correct, which is also true about a lot of other skills... purge, barrier, vigor (at least it was), warhorn, etc...

I understand, people want to go as fast as possible and limit the exposure to ZoS environment, but pretty much like every other change its a learn to adapt issue. And let's not act like the crown store alternative for buying horse speed wasn't taken into consideration here, as there is obviously more cause to buy them now.

It is the first time they have actually directly taken away a skill when they made changes like this. Previously it was just "locked" but was still able to be put onto your bars until you took the skill point out yourself by respeccing.

It was unprecedented, a change from past practice.

Why was this one different? Because there's a way to monetize it.

I did PvP on a new alt and LITERALLY got rank 5 in like three hours that’s nothing compared to the mindless PvE grinding I have to do for powers, passives and gear. PvE is aggressively unfun.

You're preaching to the wrong crowd. Judging by the comments I've read so far, these people don't seem to do dungeons either. Otherwise we would've heard from them when ZOS destroyed classes, races and popular sets every single patch.

Because others are not posting more about sets the opinion on rapids here does not matter?

I spent 6 hours in Cyridoll yesterday and I am only half way into level 4. A big problem was constantly trying to catch up to fights always watching other players run past me and those who are trying to grind rapids. I do not wish to spend the next 119 hours (7 hours x 17 toons) just to get rapids back, 3 weeks of game play (120 hours is 3 - 40 hr weeks) just running around hoping to catch up to a fight IS NOT FUN AND NOT ENGAGING. This is from a player who farms constantly. I am use to boredom but adding frustration into boredom is a recipe for disaster and this is what we have now.

Did you join a group? Did you stick to the crown? Because most PUG leads will spam rapids before moving to the next location and they don't sprint so everyone can move at roughly the same speed. You can also mention that you have a slow mount and someone will be close to buff you. Don't be shy to talk to PvP players. At least in this regard they will accommodate you because it costs them nothing.

Enough. I wonder are you a ganker? Finally able to get a few kills in? If you run Cyrodiil you KNOW there are random load screens sometimes back to back, 2 of those and you no longer have rapids. No Zerg or ball group is waiting. Load screens, and lag have always been a problem moving around

Sarannah wrote: »

You guys do not get it, this change is not about vigor vs rapids. So it's not a circular argument. It's about bots vs experienced players vs new players in starting zones. It is not unrealistic for ZOS to let everyone have the same speed, atleast when starting out.

Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!

All the downsides: like players having to get used to the change, players having to get rank 5 assault, players forcing themselves to do battlegrounds, etc... this will all balance itself out in a few days. Everyone screaming in this thread will have rapids again on most characters, in 2-3 days tops.

Relax guys, the sky is not falling.

PS: I don't care about vigor or rapids.

This is exactly what I will do with my writ crafters and survey runners. Go into BG, do whatever I can with whatever level gear they have on, probably the wooden box of goodies they give you from skipping the tutorial, and IF someone screams, yells, or treats me rudely, you break the rules and I will screenshot and report you. I don't spend $50 a month to be treated rudely by some jacked up creep.
I love to pvp, I have 6 characters with at least seigemaster, but leave my crafters alone. They make ME money and that is for MY enjoyment, and I will have rapids back

ZOS_ConnorG wrote: »

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly posts that were off topic. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, within the rules, and on topic of the discussion, we understand that discussions sometimes have other topics come and go within them but ensure that the discussion returns to the topic at hand before the thread derails.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

It's good to see this thread is being kept on track. Any news of how it's being reacted to and when we can expect a response to the concerns players have brought up on both the General and PTS forums. I believe there was a commitment to greater communication from your side. We are doing out best to convey our opinions here, so far I haven't seen a response and would like to before those authorised to do so take a break for the weekend.

Obsidian3 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Exactly. It's not entitlement. 'here's something you had in your game to make it easier to get around cause we set up a system where each person starts with a really slow mount speed. Oh you liked having that? Too bad. Oh you're just entitiled we have the right to take it away from you' no here's the thing we're the customers. We pay them. Without the playerbase they wouldn't have a game or be making any profit so we have every right to be unhappy about these changes.

I have been subscribed for nearly the entire history of the game and I have every chapter on top of that. I would think at the very least I should have something of a say when it comes to a major quality-of-life DOWNGRADE.

If players want to play the “seniority” card, I can certainly do that too:

I have been subscribed for nearly the entire history of the game and I have every chapter on top of that. I would think at the very least I should have something of a say ... when I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the change in Rapid Maneuvers.

As pointed out by other posters in the thread, PvP players have a much longer grind getting Undaunted Mettle than the walk in the park that is Assault 5.

I don't understanding what you're talking about, it only takes me an hour to max out undaunted. Just slot tank and go. It's suuuuper easy!

Sound familiar?

You can level undaunted in an day, if you have some dedicated friends and simply run trough dungeons HM speed run, no death starting with the easiest ones. Pugging it will take longer as you will get people dying from falling in CoA1, low dps and so on, also some who don't bother or forget HM.
I do it doing pledges in guild and it was fast enough.

Now getting assault 5 is easier, undaunted 10 fast require that guild want to do dungeons with you as in you are an tank or your pretty good. Cyrodil zerging is more like puging an normal trial as an DD.
Except you always get AP, now unless very unlucky you get trough in an afternoon.
Easiest is to go as an healer, they are always welcome in pugs and you are pulling your weight.
Yes you will wipe but try to pug nAsylum who also tended to be wipe feasts.