rapids change

OgginOz7 · August 2020

utterly ridiculous ... but I dont care, I am out of here ! byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ZOS

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

AlnilamE wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

joerginger wrote: »

[They want to "persuade" us non-PvP-lovers with alts to buy the Assault skill line we unlocked on our main character on 17 alt characters. Yes, the riding lessons for newer characters are the other obvious choice, but I believe their monetizing engineers want even more right now. The skill lines are so ridiculously expensive, they promise ZoS an absurdly huge amount of money of course, so we're talking about a huge amount of money they look forward to grabbing by slowing our fully leveled characters down to the crawl ZoS considers normal speed.

Actually, those of us complaining can't buy the Assault skill line "right now" even if we want to.

If they change the rules so that you can buy that line without making Grand Overlord on another character, that will be very strong evidence for your theory. But as of now, your suggested explanation is almost the only one that can be ruled out.

Alliance War Skills at rank 10 =\= Grand Overlord.

Assault and Support 10 are unlocked at alliance War rank 13 (which requires a total of just over 1 mil AP). Grand Overlord requires almost 61 mil to get to rank 49. While I don't agree with the change, even though all my alts still have rapids, let's not overexaggerate the issue with dramatizations because it doesn't help your position.

Edit to add actual reference link. UESP is your friend.

I didn't realize that the Alliance skill line worked differently from, say, Undaunted, which you can't buy until you've maxed it out, even above the level where you've unlocked all the skills. Thanks for the clarification.

It does work the same, but the Assault/Support skill lines are not the same as Alliance Rank, though they both level with AP

To get to Assaul/Support 10 (which then allows you to buy the skill line for alts) you need to get to Alliance Rank 13, not 50.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

abigfishy wrote: »

So we PVE players should all look forward to many hours of hideous abuse, name calling and toxic insults one EACH character just so we can actually travel about at a decent speed on a new character? Who thought this was a good idea?

This is the same for PvP player that hate PvE one shots from bosses and PvE logic is not fun for PvP players. The toxic and ohh look I was kicked from group for not knowing City of Ash happens. PvP player that do as little PvE as possible face this when they are forced to PvE for bind on pick up gear.

tmbrinks wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Eliahnus wrote: »

L_Nici wrote: »

It is such a minimal effort to get to the needed ranks in Assault. I never cared which was first had both anyway in less than 30 minutes.

Quite the opposite. For someone who does not PvP, rapids cannot be gained anymore.

Correct, which is also true about a lot of other skills... purge, barrier, vigor (at least it was), warhorn, etc...

I understand, people want to go as fast as possible and limit the exposure to ZoS environment, but pretty much like every other change its a learn to adapt issue. And let's not act like the crown store alternative for buying horse speed wasn't taken into consideration here, as there is obviously more cause to buy them now.

It is the first time they have actually directly taken away a skill when they made changes like this. Previously it was just "locked" but was still able to be put onto your bars until you took the skill point out yourself by respeccing.

It was unprecedented, a change from past practice.

Why was this one different? Because there's a way to monetize it.

I did PvP on a new alt and LITERALLY got rank 5 in like three hours that’s nothing compared to the mindless PvE grinding I have to do for powers, passives and gear. PvE is aggressively unfun.

You know what to do in PvP, though. Hit things with AoE, set up oils asap, repair doors/walls whenever there's a lull in fights, anticipate the next move of the zerg.

People who don't PvP don't have that awareness. I've been running with guildies who need to level Assault to 5, and I tend to get between 30-50% more AP than they do, even though we are grouped, just because I have a better idea of what to do than they do. I don't have to be told. And I'm not even an experienced PvPer.

Your experience is not going to be the same as the players who never PvP. It's going to be a lot harder for them.

True but this holds true for PvE I have been kicked from groups cause I didn't know a mechanics that everyone knows I do both but dent to only so some PvE Dungeons that drop gear I don't wear I don't do. I don't care about undaunted I have the monster sets I want and only break my norm if I change up my build. PvE can be extremely toxic and just not fun most that enjoy PvP hate the never ending PvE grind

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

Elvenheart wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Here's the thing rapid changes isn't going to help them in any way. It helps new players get into the game encourages new toons since even though you have a slow mount there is rapids. These changes will make it harder for new people and for new toons and make it to the point of why make more toons if we have to go through yet another grind. Not to mention you really need rapids for getting around cyrodil which is the main place people go to level alliance rank. I doubt many will pay 3 K crowns for alliance rank on all their toons. It won't make them more money it'll just discourage their playerbase from making toons or new people from getting into it. Making terrible decisions like this is only the kind of thing that will encourage killing your game. And no I'm not saying it'll be the end of ESO but it certainly will make it harder. The best way for them to both profit and keep a healthy playerbase is to make it easier for people to get into the game.

Hmmm, maybe you’ve hit on something. It might be that they’ve made this change because they don’t want new players in the game. Too many players may be the cause of all the lag people talk about, so driving away old players and discourage new players from playing via questionable decisions like this one and others people have mentioned may be part of their performance improvement plan. 🤣

"See? We improved the performance because you all left the game. The players were the cause of lag."

Suna_Ye_Sunnabe · August 2020

It's both comical and painful to see what new lows we're asked to stoop to. What's next that we already had that we'll have to regrind or retake? After all, it's easier to just have players waste their time in preexisting content then it is to release new, isn't it? And lag will almost certainly be better with less players on the server, won't it? So many inexpensive fixes. Although these changes to the assault skill line do come at an interesting conjunction in time with their testing in Cyrodiil as well... Nothing like forcing players in instead of giving them true incentive. In all my days, I've never seen a company so cold and antagonistic toward its player base as this company has been...I find it very strange.

TESO_sb · August 2020

SteveCampsOut wrote: »

TESO_sb wrote: »

PC/Mac Patch Notes v6.1.5 - Stonethorn & Update 27
Vigor: This ability is now first in the skill line to unlock, and has swapped places with Rapid Maneuvers in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience. Previous XP gained in both of these skills will be retained, but if your Assault skill line is too low to obtain the 3rd skill, you will have to level it in order to gain access to Rapid Maneuvers again.

It's a lie. Somehow I reached level 5, but the transformation that was chosen earlier and had rank 4 is now rank 1 and must be pumped again.

I'm not sure it's a lie. Several of my alts who are still at rank 4 didn't have their points refunded and the skill is still active but shows a white padlock icon imprinted over it. I was even able to add skill points to morph it on a couple of alts so far. The Icon still has the white padlock and still says it unlocks at Assault Rank 5 but it's working on them. Not all my alts unfortunately have this. I spent the last two days getting Assault 5 on one who lost all access to his rapids.

As I wrote earlier, through pain and humiliation I reached rank 5, yes, the skill itself has rank 4 if it was previously pumped, but the improvement rank was reset. When I chose the previous transformation, it became 1st rank, not 4 as it was before.

TESO_sb · August 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Exactly. It's not entitlement. 'here's something you had in your game to make it easier to get around cause we set up a system where each person starts with a really slow mount speed. Oh you liked having that? Too bad. Oh you're just entitiled we have the right to take it away from you' no here's the thing we're the customers. We pay them. Without the playerbase they wouldn't have a game or be making any profit so we have every right to be unhappy about these changes.

I have been subscribed for nearly the entire history of the game and I have every chapter on top of that. I would think at the very least I should have something of a say when it comes to a major quality-of-life DOWNGRADE.

If players want to play the “seniority” card, I can certainly do that too:

I have been subscribed for nearly the entire history of the game and I have every chapter on top of that. I would think at the very least I should have something of a say ... when I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the change in Rapid Maneuvers.

As pointed out by other posters in the thread, PvP players have a much longer grind getting Undaunted Mettle than the walk in the park that is Assault 5.

sorry, but you can ask:
What ability of the undaunted skills are used by all your characters upon reaching level 10, to increase the comfort of the game and the speed of movement to the world?

ZaroktheImmortal · August 2020

TESO_sb wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Exactly. It's not entitlement. 'here's something you had in your game to make it easier to get around cause we set up a system where each person starts with a really slow mount speed. Oh you liked having that? Too bad. Oh you're just entitiled we have the right to take it away from you' no here's the thing we're the customers. We pay them. Without the playerbase they wouldn't have a game or be making any profit so we have every right to be unhappy about these changes.

I have been subscribed for nearly the entire history of the game and I have every chapter on top of that. I would think at the very least I should have something of a say when it comes to a major quality-of-life DOWNGRADE.

If players want to play the “seniority” card, I can certainly do that too:

I have been subscribed for nearly the entire history of the game and I have every chapter on top of that. I would think at the very least I should have something of a say ... when I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the change in Rapid Maneuvers.

As pointed out by other posters in the thread, PvP players have a much longer grind getting Undaunted Mettle than the walk in the park that is Assault 5.

sorry, but you can ask:
What ability of the undaunted skills are used by all your characters upon reaching level 10, to increase the comfort of the game and the speed of movement to the world?

Not to mention losing rapids makes it harder to level the pvp line as getting around cyrodil is painful as is and without rapids well..it's bad for both pve and pvp players.

Sgrug · August 2020

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Not to mention losing rapids makes it harder to level the pvp line as getting around cyrodil is painful as is and without rapids well..it's bad for both pve and pvp players.

To reinforce your point. I did take my latest alt into Cyrodill to go from level 2 to level 5 for rapids. Now I use to PVP hard in 2015 and 2016, so I have an idea of how to find AP and in general how to get around / play there.

I would be a returning PVP'r with a lowbie toon.

I found it hard to get a good group, in part to being an unknown name, I was always chasing the fights and fort action, yes I tried to get a group that was spamming rapids but that proved ineffective, if it is not a group that is actively working together (usually several team mates) then rapids is hard to get and maintain.

It was powerfully frustrating and I am use to farming and grinding, the time it took was between 6 to 7 hours to go from level 2 to level 5.For me the length of time was not the issue. I have farmed for at least 7 hours before but that farming was actually game play, chasing nodes, trying to beat other farmers to nodes, a meta game within the game so to speak, this issue was how the time was used. This was during the busy times of the server with my faction doing well. The number of fights I missed was so frustrating that in the end I found it to be more effective to wait at a fort likely to be attacked which did indeed increase my AP/hr.

SO my solution was to camp a fort and watch TV on a second monitor until a fight happened.

THAT IS NOT EFFECTIVE GAME PLAY AND NO WAY TO FORCE A NEW PLAYER TO ENGAGE IN PVP

Just imagine a newbie who may already be hesitant to pvp, this seriously discourages new players.

Iluvrien · August 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Exactly. It's not entitlement. 'here's something you had in your game to make it easier to get around cause we set up a system where each person starts with a really slow mount speed. Oh you liked having that? Too bad. Oh you're just entitiled we have the right to take it away from you' no here's the thing we're the customers. We pay them. Without the playerbase they wouldn't have a game or be making any profit so we have every right to be unhappy about these changes.

I have been subscribed for nearly the entire history of the game and I have every chapter on top of that. I would think at the very least I should have something of a say when it comes to a major quality-of-life DOWNGRADE.

If players want to play the “seniority” card, I can certainly do that too:

I have been subscribed for nearly the entire history of the game and I have every chapter on top of that. I would think at the very least I should have something of a say ... when I have absolutely NO PROBLEM with the change in Rapid Maneuvers.

As pointed out by other posters in the thread, PvP players have a much longer grind getting Undaunted Mettle than the walk in the park that is Assault 5.

You do know that two wrongs don’t make a right, yes?

Should players have to take part in content they actively don’t enjoy to get something for the part they do? No. This is a game.

Does this mean I stand for PvP players getting skills/gear through avenues associated with PvP? Yep.

Does this mean I stand for PvE players being given similar opportunities? Yep.

Does thus mean that I continue to think the decision, to actively remove access to a skill people already had, is fundamentally flawed? You betcha.

Oh, and this is about access via play style. I don’t care if it is difficult to get... as long as PvE players can get it through PvE and the same for PvP players.

heaven13 · August 2020

lucky_Sage wrote: »

It only takes 3 hours of BG’s to get from 1 to 10 Ava skill line. It takes way longer for a PvPers to lvl up undaunted. Not the only one force to do somthing you dont like

This is grossly inaccurate. To get to Assault/Support rank 10, you need 1,040,000 AP. If you win every single battleground you participate in, (at 12,000 AP per winning match), it will take approximately 87 matches to go from nothing to 10. 87 matches, at 15 minutes a match (which is generous given that queue isn't an insta-pop even assuming that you're winning your matches below the 15 minute threshold) will take 6 hours. That's a lot of RNG to get from 1-10 in double the amount of time you're claiming.

lucky_Sage · August 2020

JoeCapricorn wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

It only takes 3 hours of BG’s to get from 1 to 10 Ava skill line. It takes way longer for a PvPers to lvl up undaunted. Not the only one force to do somthing you dont like

I will tell you, if I tried to do BGs on some of my alts, I'm gonna have a bad time. It is not going to take me "only 3 hours". They do not have skill points spent in weapons and armor, these are entirely crafting toons. In fact, the only thing they ever had on their bar was Rapids.

@ZOS_GregoryV Will the devs be commenting on this? That's something I'd like to see addressed. Clearly this is not helping the community, it might be best to roll out a patch later this week to reverse this change. That would be the best way to address this, instead of letting it fester.

This is why I tell every new player to do your daily bg when lvling your toon pre50 BG’s are 100 times easier

tambo.01b16_ESO · August 2020

After years of seeing changes to this, changes to that, I've never really complained. I've just put up with it.
This change is however the last nail in the ESO coffin. Luckily, both my ESO Plus subs are up for renewal early next month, but for the first time in almost 4 year, they'll not be getting renewed.

Only thing companies like this understand...hit them in the pocket (advise to all)

Nestor · August 2020

heaven13 wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

It only takes 3 hours of BG’s to get from 1 to 10 Ava skill line. It takes way longer for a PvPers to lvl up undaunted. Not the only one force to do somthing you dont like

This is grossly inaccurate. To get to Assault/Support rank 10, you need 1,040,000 AP. If you win every single battleground you participate in, (at 12,000 AP per winning match), it will take approximately 87 matches to go from nothing to 10. 87 matches, at 15 minutes a match (which is generous given that queue isn't an insta-pop even assuming that you're winning your matches below the 15 minute threshold) will take 6 hours. That's a lot of RNG to get from 1-10 in double the amount of time you're claiming.

Your Math is off, to complete 87 Matches, will take 27 to 30 hours, depending on Queue Times.

etchedpixels · August 2020

If folks are being nasty about you in BG when you are doing badly and trying then you can just /sitchair until they grow up.

Sarannah · August 2020

The rapids change is good, if you guys all feel it is worth this much, then it is worth the slight effort to reach it.

Rapids is not a skill players should have on alts they do not play, or do not want to spend some time on. An alt on which zero time was spent, shouldn't be able to outrun/outfarm actual new players.

I'm not a pvper at all, and it is easy to get.

This entire thread to me seems like you guys aren't playing the game, but the game is playing you. Just do the daily BG for 2-3 days in a row on the chars you want rapid on, and you'll have it.

PS: Please don't ruin other player's battlegrounds by not doing anything, just because you feel bad about a change.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · August 2020

heaven13 wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

It only takes 3 hours of BG’s to get from 1 to 10 Ava skill line. It takes way longer for a PvPers to lvl up undaunted. Not the only one force to do somthing you dont like

This is grossly inaccurate. To get to Assault/Support rank 10, you need 1,040,000 AP. If you win every single battleground you participate in, (at 12,000 AP per winning match), it will take approximately 87 matches to go from nothing to 10. 87 matches, at 15 minutes a match (which is generous given that queue isn't an insta-pop even assuming that you're winning your matches below the 15 minute threshold) will take 6 hours. That's a lot of RNG to get from 1-10 in double the amount of time you're claiming.

3 hours of prime time get you all that and at the end you will worthless AP that’s can be used for motifs no one buys or the jewelry trait that’s the one thing actually worth money that AP can buy.

Sgrug · August 2020

Sarannah wrote: »

The rapids change is good, if you guys all feel it is worth this much, then it is worth the slight effort to reach it.

Rapids is not a skill players should have on alts they do not play, or do not want to spend some time on. An alt on which zero time was spent, shouldn't be able to outrun/outfarm actual new players.

I'm not a pvper at all, and it is easy to get.

This entire thread to me seems like you guys aren't playing the game, but the game is playing you. Just do the daily BG for 2-3 days in a row on the chars you want rapid on, and you'll have it.

PS: Please don't ruin other player's battlegrounds by not doing anything, just because you feel bad about a change.

And again if Vigor was that important it was worth the effort to get it, please do not ruin other players experience just because you wanted vigor sooner. These arguments are circular and do not further the discussion in a tangible way.

Jacozilla · August 2020

Sarannah wrote: »

The rapids change is good, if you guys all feel it is worth this much, then it is worth the slight effort to reach it.

Rapids is not a skill players should have on alts they do not play, or do not want to spend some time on. An alt on which zero time was spent, shouldn't be able to outrun/outfarm actual new players.

I'm not a pvper at all, and it is easy to get.

This entire thread to me seems like you guys aren't playing the game, but the game is playing you. Just do the daily BG for 2-3 days in a row on the chars you want rapid on, and you'll have it.

1. If rapids is a "slight" effort in your opinion, then great - why the need to make Vigor first unlock then? Surely with such a "slight effort to reach it", should be no complaint to keep vigor where it is right?

2. Quote any person in this giant thread saying they want rapids on alts they don't play. The complaint is rapids was taken away from characters people do play. Whether you believe these people actually play lots of alts or not seems to be the issue.

3. "Just do the daily BG for 2-3 days in a row on chars you want rapid on, and you'll have it" - two problems with this statement - first it is not correct.

If you had rapids unlocked but no more, will take more than 3 BGs even if team comes in first. Takes 70k alliance rank points to unlock rank 5, without midyear mayhem boost you get ~12-14k AP as winning team (depending how many bonus AP you get from medals earned, etc).

Assuming came in 1st, would take 6-7 BGs to unlock new rapids at rank 5 if you started with no rank other than the welcome to cyro AP to unlock original rapids.

But say you had some AP already and go with your 3 BGs assumption - that is 3 BGs per character. There would be far less complaints if all you had to do was 3 or even 7 BGs for entire account unlock.

You can't have it both ways - either getting rank 5 to unlock is easy or it is not. If it is, then no point in swapping Vigor to rank 1 because it's so easy to get it at rank 5 as you are suggesting for Rapids, right? What is the entire point of swapping Vigor to rank Rapids if there is no big deal to get Vigor at rank 5?

esotoon · August 2020

Sarannah wrote: »

The rapids change is good, if you guys all feel it is worth this much, then it is worth the slight effort to reach it.

Can not the same be said for Vigor?

Rapids is not a skill players should have on alts they do not play, or do not want to spend some time on. An alt on which zero time was spent, shouldn't be able to outrun/outfarm actual new players.

In order to get Rapids, you had to level a character to level 10, or log in enough times to get enough of the AP rewards given out in the daily rewards. In other words, those alts "which zero time was spent on" have no advantage over new players when it comes to their ability to get rapids. So this point is mute.

Not to mention, you are assuming the only people disadvantaged by this are people who just have alts they never spend time playing, which isn't the case.

This entire thread to me seems like you guys aren't playing the game, but the game is playing you. Just do the daily BG for 2-3 days in a row on the chars you want rapid on, and you'll have it.

How is having to spend several hours per character in order to get back a skill that you have had for years, not "the game playing you"?

PS: Please don't ruin other player's battlegrounds by not doing anything, just because you feel bad about a change.

Sorry, ZOS is forcing players to have to do this in order to get a skill they need. If you have an issue with this, perhaps you should join a thread asking ZOS to revert these changes, so BG players don't have to put up with non-PVPers ruining their game?

Rowjoh · August 2020

If it is 'so easy' and 'such minimal effort' to get the second tiered skill, then what was the point of changing the order in the first place ?

Rapids is a global skill. Vigor is niche by comparison. Mobility in Cyrodiil is key and a huge quality of life thing in PVE.

Vigor can only be used by stam players, isn't even that great, and isn't needed at all while levelling characters as levelling to cap is so ridiculously easy.

This change has alienated a large number of players and I don't see Vigor users exactly whooping with unbridled joy and relief either so the change couldn't have been made purely for gameplay reasons.

badmojo · August 2020

I imagine the amount of players who are negatively affected by this change is probably 3 or 4 times the amount of players who complained about having to grind for vigor. They rewarded a minority of builds by punishing literally every build that does not actively PVP in Cyrodiil. That's just bad math.

I have 18 characters. For years all I did was PVP in this game. I still have probably 8 characters who lost their access to Rapids. That's what... about 40hours? that I need to grind in Cyrodiil in order to get back to where I was a few days ago? Not to mention the only populated campaign these days is the faction locked one, and most of the characters I have who lost rapids are not on my main faction, meaning I am left with no other option but to grind AP on dead servers. How many scouting missions does it even take to go from level 2 to 5? 40 hours might have been way under estimating.

Move rapids to another skill line.
Let players who had previously unlocked it keep it.
Make vigor and rapids both unlock at level 1.
Build it into the game, lose the skill and just make it an ability that every character gets at level 10.

There are plenty of ways to achieve the same goal without punishing players.

TESO_sb · August 2020

Sarannah wrote: »

Rapids is not a skill players should have on alts they do not play, or do not want to spend some time on. An alt on which zero time was spent, shouldn't be able to outrun/outfarm actual new players.

but at the same time the most powerful treatment for stamina, a great skill to give it just like that?
Where is your logic?

AlnilamE · August 2020

Sarannah wrote: »

The rapids change is good, if you guys all feel it is worth this much, then it is worth the slight effort to reach it.

Rapids is not a skill players should have on alts they do not play, or do not want to spend some time on. An alt on which zero time was spent, shouldn't be able to outrun/outfarm actual new players.

I'm not a pvper at all, and it is easy to get.

This entire thread to me seems like you guys aren't playing the game, but the game is playing you. Just do the daily BG for 2-3 days in a row on the chars you want rapid on, and you'll have it.

PS: Please don't ruin other player's battlegrounds by not doing anything, just because you feel bad about a change.

What sort of argument is this? Are you going to also say that alts that are not played a lot don't deserve max mount speed even though we logged in to them for 2 months to level speed? New players can do the same.

Also, how many hours should an alt have under /played before we can outfit them with a Ring of the Wild Hunt, swift jewelry and speed sets?

Sarannah · August 2020

You guys do not get it, this change is not about vigor vs rapids. So it's not a circular argument. It's about bots vs experienced players vs new players in starting zones. It is not unrealistic for ZOS to let everyone have the same speed, atleast when starting out.

Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!

All the downsides: like players having to get used to the change, players having to get rank 5 assault, players forcing themselves to do battlegrounds, etc... this will all balance itself out in a few days. Everyone screaming in this thread will have rapids again on most characters, in 2-3 days tops.

Relax guys, the sky is not falling.

PS: I don't care about vigor or rapids.

AlnilamE · August 2020

Sarannah wrote: »

You guys do not get it, this change is not about vigor vs rapids. So it's not a circular argument. It's about bots vs experienced players vs new players in starting zones. It is not unrealistic for ZOS to let everyone have the same speed, atleast when starting out.

Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!

All the downsides: like players having to get used to the change, players having to get rank 5 assault, players forcing themselves to do battlegrounds, etc... this will all balance itself out in a few days. Everyone screaming in this thread will have rapids again on most characters, in 2-3 days tops.

Relax guys, the sky is not falling.

PS: I don't care about vigor or rapids.

I've been helping guildies in PvP since the second week this patch was on the PTS. We even started a weekly PvP event so that people can get rapids. We are nowhere near done.

Gythral · August 2020

ZOS could chge BG so that T is always off
after all (atm) who cares about waht killed you until whe have 10 in Alliance skill lines
many of us just want the PvP line over so we never have to go there again (no matter whjat changes are made to FORCE in on us again)

Linaleah · August 2020

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

It only takes 3 hours of BG’s to get from 1 to 10 Ava skill line. It takes way longer for a PvPers to lvl up undaunted. Not the only one force to do somthing you dont like

This is grossly inaccurate. To get to Assault/Support rank 10, you need 1,040,000 AP. If you win every single battleground you participate in, (at 12,000 AP per winning match), it will take approximately 87 matches to go from nothing to 10. 87 matches, at 15 minutes a match (which is generous given that queue isn't an insta-pop even assuming that you're winning your matches below the 15 minute threshold) will take 6 hours. That's a lot of RNG to get from 1-10 in double the amount of time you're claiming.

3 hours of prime time get you all that and at the end you will worthless AP that’s can be used for motifs no one buys or the jewelry trait that’s the one thing actually worth money that AP can buy.

no one buys? really? both akaviri and even more so militant ordinator motifs still sell for a very nice chunk of change. and they sell FAST. moreover - golden vendor stuff? sells VERY nicely as well. that said 3 hours of prime time IF you are lucky with groups AND manage to get fast pops, will get you no where near rank 10. it will get you IF you are lucky to rank 5. and I reiterate. if you are lucky (if you are lucky AND good at pvp, you might shave of 20 minutes off that)

Linaleah · August 2020

Sarannah wrote: »

You guys do not get it, this change is not about vigor vs rapids. So it's not a circular argument. It's about bots vs experienced players vs new players in starting zones. It is not unrealistic for ZOS to let everyone have the same speed, atleast when starting out.

Vigor for new players is very very important, as alot of players new to the game need a heal. So switching vigor and rapids is to better the game!

All the downsides: like players having to get used to the change, players having to get rank 5 assault, players forcing themselves to do battlegrounds, etc... this will all balance itself out in a few days. Everyone screaming in this thread will have rapids again on most characters, in 2-3 days tops.

Relax guys, the sky is not falling.

PS: I don't care about vigor or rapids.

sigh. this argument again.

people were on equal ground before. anyone reaching lvl 10 could go and get rapids, leaving them at equal speed. ANYONE. you also overestimate the importance of vigor for new players. there are couple of classes/spec combinations that do benefit from vigor, but overall - scaling at early levels does a heck of a lot more then vigor ever did. and just learning how combat in this game works. learning to block, dodge, interrupt does FAR more then vigor ever did.

ironically.. even people who are happy about this change and understand the game claim that vigor becomes far more important at end game, specifically in veteran pve content.

esotoon · August 2020

Sarannah wrote: »

You guys do not get it, this change is not about vigor vs rapids. So it's not a circular argument. It's about bots vs experienced players vs new players in starting zones. It is not unrealistic for ZOS to let everyone have the same speed, atleast when starting out.

Everybody DOES have the same riding speed when starting out. Your argument makes no sense.

tmbrinks · August 2020

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

heaven13 wrote: »

lucky_Sage wrote: »

It only takes 3 hours of BG’s to get from 1 to 10 Ava skill line. It takes way longer for a PvPers to lvl up undaunted. Not the only one force to do somthing you dont like

This is grossly inaccurate. To get to Assault/Support rank 10, you need 1,040,000 AP. If you win every single battleground you participate in, (at 12,000 AP per winning match), it will take approximately 87 matches to go from nothing to 10. 87 matches, at 15 minutes a match (which is generous given that queue isn't an insta-pop even assuming that you're winning your matches below the 15 minute threshold) will take 6 hours. That's a lot of RNG to get from 1-10 in double the amount of time you're claiming.

3 hours of prime time get you all that and at the end you will worthless AP that’s can be used for motifs no one buys or the jewelry trait that’s the one thing actually worth money that AP can buy.

why do you (and like 3 other people) keep saying this completely inaccurate timeframe? There are dozens of people who have contradicted that amount of time, yet in every single thread, it's the same 4 of you saying the exact same thing.

Yes, you might, if you're lucky, and have a dedicated PVP group, and are a seasoned PVP player, you might be able to get it done in 3 hours.

Yet that is not the reality for 99% of players. So, please, stop being disingenuous, and stop saying this over and over and over again.