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With the release of 6.1.0, the Vampire skill line will be an abject failure of game design.

  • Rikakiah
    Rikakiah
    Dovakhan wrote: »
    TBH, I only have Vampirism on my crafter cos of the passives granting invis while sprinting, and the one that allows you to ignore sneak's speed penalty. Hope they don't screw that, too.

    Those are really the skills I made my khajiit for--to be a super stealth thieving assassin. Assuming they don't mess with that, my goal is technically met. It is a shame that, while it's fun to play, it feels like it takes a lot of work to even be on par with a non-vampire of the same class.

    A bat swarm closer would be awesome and what I thought a morph o mist form would be. At least I have Lotus Fan, but it seems like something that should be tailor made to a vampire. Since I doubt PVPers would give up their speed form, I'd have to give up my aoe form (which does pretty poor aoe, but can easily heal me up in a pinch). "Transform into a swarm of bats, converging on your target up to 22 (28? whatever most closers are) meters away, setting them off balanced and you receive 75% less damage for (3-5?) seconds."
    Edited by Rikakiah on August 1, 2020 11:20PM
  • SlimeBro1
    SlimeBro1
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    Rikakiah wrote: »
    Dovakhan wrote: »
    TBH, I only have Vampirism on my crafter cos of the passives granting invis while sprinting, and the one that allows you to ignore sneak's speed penalty. Hope they don't screw that, too.

    Those are really the skills I made my khajiit for--to be a super stealth thieving assassin. Assuming they don't mess with that, my goal is technically met. It is a shame that, while it's fun to play, it feels like it takes a lot of work to even be on par with a non-vampire of the same class.

    A bat swarm closer would be awesome and what I thought a morph o mist form would be. At least I have Lotus Fan, but it seems like something that should be tailor made to a vampire. Since I doubt PVPers would give up their speed form, I'd have to give up my aoe form (which does pretty poor aoe, but can easily heal me up in a pinch). "Transform into a swarm of bats, converging on your target up to 22 (28? whatever most closers are) meters away, setting them off balanced and you receive 75% less damage for (3-5?) seconds."

    That would be so cool it'd fix my main issue with the line
  • Thannazzar
    Thannazzar
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    SlimeBro1 wrote: »
    Rikakiah wrote: »
    Dovakhan wrote: »
    TBH, I only have Vampirism on my crafter cos of the passives granting invis while sprinting, and the one that allows you to ignore sneak's speed penalty. Hope they don't screw that, too.

    Those are really the skills I made my khajiit for--to be a super stealth thieving assassin. Assuming they don't mess with that, my goal is technically met. It is a shame that, while it's fun to play, it feels like it takes a lot of work to even be on par with a non-vampire of the same class.

    A bat swarm closer would be awesome and what I thought a morph o mist form would be. At least I have Lotus Fan, but it seems like something that should be tailor made to a vampire. Since I doubt PVPers would give up their speed form, I'd have to give up my aoe form (which does pretty poor aoe, but can easily heal me up in a pinch). "Transform into a swarm of bats, converging on your target up to 22 (28? whatever most closers are) meters away, setting them off balanced and you receive 75% less damage for (3-5?) seconds."

    That would be so cool it'd fix my main issue with the line

    And if they also gave us a non transform scion morph that would be great too.
  • SlimeBro1
    SlimeBro1
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    Thannazzar wrote: »
    ZOS reaction to PTS Feedback on vamps (or most content to be honest)

    e1rg2vkn9z9k.gif

    This is so true it hurts.
  • MincVinyl
    MincVinyl
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    Elusiin wrote: »
    I don't understand why it is so hard for them to take the feedback. Is the lead developer a narcissist or something?? Like someone challenge this ego trip, the fact is that the design of the vampire is trash and incomplete.

    Tbh half the ideas put through the forums are terrible, not trying to be mean or off putting, but Ive seen some rather silly posts/requests.
    Still clappin cheeks on a Bosmer Stamsorc in 2020
  • Rikakiah
    Rikakiah
    Being on Xbox, I don't have access to the pts, but my understanding is BfB has had its "execute" damage max reduced and prevents healing for 5 seconds, is that correct? That healing prevention, does it apply to just outside healing, or all healing? If it's just outside healing, I could get behind that. Right now, in groups, I can't get my health below 90%, let alone 50. Unless I pop Frenzy, but stacking that with BfB goes pear shaped really fast. Complete side-note: I've been able to keep Simmering Frenzy up a surprisingly long time with the other Eviscerate morph, though, and that style's a lot of fun to play. Not sure what spell power it got up to, though, since I don't dare open my character screen doing that.

    If self-healing is still allowed, this would be a way for many classes to self-regulate their damage vs risk that is currently impossible in a group. Classes with healing options could learn to ride their health with BfB, while those without (or choosing not to use) could still have a workable ability with the other morph and balancing Frenzy depending on their healer's ability. However, if it negates self-heals, too, it's a guaranteed death sentence to use in any content that has enemies that do damage...
  • Stahlor
    Stahlor
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    @Rikakiah
    That might work in dungeons. For trials this won't be viable anymore and this is usually the place where you have trouble with sustain.
  • SlimeBro1
    SlimeBro1
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    MincVinyl wrote: »
    Elusiin wrote: »
    I don't understand why it is so hard for them to take the feedback. Is the lead developer a narcissist or something?? Like someone challenge this ego trip, the fact is that the design of the vampire is trash and incomplete.

    Tbh half the ideas put through the forums are terrible, not trying to be mean or off putting, but Ive seen some rather silly posts/requests.

    This is true, but all of the vampire rework requests have been pretty logical.
  • Rikakiah
    Rikakiah
    SlimeBro1 wrote: »
    Rikakiah wrote: »
    Being on Xbox, I don't have access to the pts, but my understanding is BfB has had its "execute" damage max reduced and prevents healing for 5 seconds, is that correct? That healing prevention, does it apply to just outside healing, or all healing? If it's just outside healing, I could get behind that. Right now, in groups, I can't get my health below 90%, let alone 50. Unless I pop Frenzy, but stacking that with BfB goes pear shaped really fast. Complete side-note: I've been able to keep Simmering Frenzy up a surprisingly long time with the other Eviscerate morph, though, and that style's a lot of fun to play. Not sure what spell power it got up to, though, since I don't dare open my character screen doing that.

    If self-healing is still allowed, this would be a way for many classes to self-regulate their damage vs risk that is currently impossible in a group. Classes with healing options could learn to ride their health with BfB, while those without (or choosing not to use) could still have a workable ability with the other morph and balancing Frenzy depending on their healer's ability. However, if it negates self-heals, too, it's a guaranteed death sentence to use in any content that has enemies that do damage...

    Here's the thing. The class shouldnt HAVE to cut you off from working with a group in order to function.


    Even if somehow you can get it to work, it is still bad design. In a game where end game content requires a team and working together, playing a style that literally cuts you off from being supported with said team won't work. I will be very surprised if people are still able to take vamp into endgame dungeons after this patch.

    If they wanted to dive full in on vampire being a "loner" class then they should of based the entire class design around such. The abilities could synergize better for such a concept.

    Well, technically, it's the 1 morph of 1 skill that is decidedly anti-group (the other morph benefits from low health, but only marginally, unless you're stacking all damage an no crit to rely on the sub-50% health crit guarantee). Frenzy is a different beast and probably needs a re-look, too, but it's theoretically workable in a group.

    But you're right--any style that relies on competitive damage by staying on the threshold of death can't possibly be viable in a group. First, a healer can't really single you out to not heal so you'll be fighting their magicka pool just to even get down there. Second, unless you're super stacking health (which dampens your damage as it trades damage stats to do so), you're living in 1-shot territory even for trash adds and "nuisance" aoe in harder content.

    I am really curious how their design talks go concerning vampires.
  • precambria
    precambria
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    I am from the future, this post was from july 14th, I can report back in time to say, actually the new vampire is quite awesome and has added a lot of options for various builds that now require making choices rather just just having it for free passive gains.
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