Tigerseye wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

If you play a team sport and join a team, and the coach says, 'make this play when x happens', or 'focus on x player' or do a specific form of training, most people would have no issues and certainly wouldn't see a problem with complying with the request. Seems to me you don't see trials as a team game.

There are lots of chill social guilds that do trials, but even those guilds ask players to work together and complement each other's gear and skills to make it fun for all. They generally help people get what they need and often suggest assistant add-ons or even use logs to help everyone improve, on the assumption that people who do vet trials are interested in improving themselves for the benefit of the team.

By the time most people do vet DLC Trials content in even the most chill guilds, they understand they are working together to get the optimal combination and are pleased to bring their best to the game to help their team mates. It makes everything smoother, easier, quicker and as a result , more satisfying.

So it's up to you: play as a team player and the other 11 people will be chill. Play how you want, ignore what the team leader/coach wants and it will frustrate the rest of the team who won't see how meeting some pretty minimal requirements is such a deal breaker for you.

Perhaps trials just don't suit your individualistic solipsistic play style.

I think you are confusing multiplayer games for team sports.

If you play a team sport you are generally accepting a more intense, serious, rule-based, authoritarian experience, but I think it's fair to say that most people don't view multiplayer games in that way.

A few do, though, as we can see here...

That's what organized trials are. If you PUG a trial out of zone, sure, those are pretty much anything-goes, but organized guild trials are team sports.

If you want to run a trial for the fun of it, join a PUG run in Craglorn or a non trial focused guild, even a few of the trade guilds I am in run weekly normal difficulty trials for those who are interested all they require is you sign up to the guilds discord and have access to a mike to listen to the raid leader no actual talking required.

If your joining a guild that specifically states they are a trial focused guild with the intention to run vet trials, in the recruitment message, you have to expect they have some basic expectations, you either agree and meet those expectations or you leave no one is forcing you to stay but the reality is most other trial focused guilds are likely to have similar expectations of you.

Tigerseye wrote: »

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

If you play a team sport and join a team, and the coach says, 'make this play when x happens', or 'focus on x player' or do a specific form of training, most people would have no issues and certainly wouldn't see a problem with complying with the request. Seems to me you don't see trials as a team game.

There are lots of chill social guilds that do trials, but even those guilds ask players to work together and complement each other's gear and skills to make it fun for all. They generally help people get what they need and often suggest assistant add-ons or even use logs to help everyone improve, on the assumption that people who do vet trials are interested in improving themselves for the benefit of the team.

By the time most people do vet DLC Trials content in even the most chill guilds, they understand they are working together to get the optimal combination and are pleased to bring their best to the game to help their team mates. It makes everything smoother, easier, quicker and as a result , more satisfying.

So it's up to you: play as a team player and the other 11 people will be chill. Play how you want, ignore what the team leader/coach wants and it will frustrate the rest of the team who won't see how meeting some pretty minimal requirements is such a deal breaker for you.

Perhaps trials just don't suit your individualistic solipsistic play style.

I think you are confusing multiplayer games for team sports.

If you play a team sport you are generally accepting a more intense, serious, rule-based, authoritarian experience, but I think it's fair to say that most people don't view multiplayer games in that way.

A few do, though, as we can see here...

Lets try this example since you seem to have misunderstood my sports analogy: OP joins a book group, is told the group is going to read a specific book for discussion. OP refuses to do so for 'reasons' not explained and then insists everyone else in the book club is a bully because they say, 'well if you don't read the books we ask you to read, then you don't really belong in our book club'.

If you join a group whose rules/grounds for joining are set out, whether it is in an online game, a real world sport team, a dance troupe or a book club and then you refuse to follow those rule/norms/terms of agreement of that group, it does NOT make the book club or dance troupe 'authoritarian' or 'rules driven' or 'intense' for expecting you to.

Why join a group with expectations that are spelled out and then refuse to go along with these basic expectations because you just don't like them? It's irrational. Just don't join that group in the first place......

As other posters have suggested, perhaps the OP should form their own trials guild/group of friends and set their own rules/norms/expectations or complete lack thereof, or just keep pugging and doing 'an ok job' with randoms. Whatever floats their boat.

Slagging off 2 trials guilds for 'bullying' because OP doesn't want to do what is asked by them in advance is my issue here. Not elitist trials guilds, authoritarianism, gear demands or basic add ons.

OP: the real question is not why something a requirement in a trial guild, but rather why you joining a group if you don't want to follow to their rules? Nobody forced you to join you did it voluntarily, so why your first motion is wanting to change what they do and how they do things?

I ran a PUG for some rele gear yesterday and the group wanted to run nCR+3. Not a hard one by any means. However, the majority of the group didn't know mechs at all and the part of the group that did rushed into the fight without even organizing who was going to do portals or discussing anything. One person immediately stated "why are people so F stupid" after the group most expectedly wiped and disbanded immediately. All it takes is one bad person to ruin it for everyone. I think if discussion had happened and some basic mechs would have been explained it would have been fine, the group was great otherwise. Needless to say, PUG trials are hit and miss and if communication isn't in the group then forget it. The main reason why 99% of any trial should be guild ran, and even more so with voice chat.

What I've realized after experimenting with multiple guilds who raid in ESO is that some people are toxic. It's the unfortunate reality of dealing with a society full of humans! At first I was upset about this fact, and then with a bit more experience under my belt it became clear that any group that I started to check out for the first time would always have a chance of being toxic. You can identify the toxic groups pretty quickly, move on and try to find a guild or something that fits your style. I always expect this to happen, and if it doesn't then I am pleasantly surprised.

Playboy_Shrek wrote: »

I was literally bullied from like 2 trial guilds that i got invited to because I didn't want to specifically use the items they wanted or codes/notifier, am not sure why is it a requirement. why are average guilds expecting people to gear up and get ready like they are beating world records and speedrun records?. like, can we chill for a moment here. I cleared vSS as MT a while ago at cp 390 and I had to pretend I had notifier to get in and people said I did pretty good. and it was a pug lol.

Why would anyone on a team want someone whos not a team player? This is true in all aspects of life. They werent being toxic to you, it seems like someone who doesnt work well with others is the true source of toxicity in this case.

Shantu wrote: »

If you ever take on the task of coordinating and leading 11 other people to be successful against veteran trial content, I think you might come to a better appreciation of the need for standards of gear and performance. It's always about doing what's best to help the "group" succeed, and not about your individual ideology. A "me first" attitude rarely works out well.

On the other hand, as others have pointed out, there are plenty of casual guilds who run trials who have no requirements.

I run a trial group and this is 100% true. It takes a fair amount of work and time to coordinate 12 people with real life mixed in to even get 2 days a week to raid. Other people's time can be very limited as to when you can get a core group together. To have someone not want to play the way the other 11 do and then complain about it is purely selfish.

Not everyone can sit and play games 16 hours a day daily. Some of us have very little time to accomplish the things we want and to have one person that's not on board with the plan can seriously hinder goals.

Elwendryll wrote: »

We have a main tank playing without add-ons and a controller. I have to remind myself of that every time.
Just set the expectations straight before joining. There is nothing wrong or toxic about having this kind of requirements, just make sure everyone is on the same page before joining.

I'm healer than don't use any combat addon too. Got no problem to clear any vHM content in the game and no one complain about my uptime or gameplay.
But I for sur use all skill/set is needed by the team to have a good run, that just common sens.
Edit : Oh and I don't use Z'en too, I'm fine with MK and other but hate Z'en with passion. When it's need if the other healer can't use it or don't have it I just let my place to someone who are fine with, no drama or whatever, it my choice to not use it I'll not penalize the group if RL think they need it, simple.

And I will comment again. If you truly want an addon-free experience, where the rules and roster requirements are set by you, make your own guild. It's that simple.

I always think its really totally down to the content... and there are several shades of grey there... not just one rule for everything.

Normal trials... you can turn up wearing a bin bag and watching lord of the rings while playing and clear no problem.

Vet Craglorn trials... Need at least a bit of a practical build, but theres loads of flexibility here, even for the hardmode & speedrun achvs.

Vet DLC trials... Need a certain level of performance, but a good degree of flexibility... but within reason EG: No hybrids, or magicka DD's with a bow! Its at this point that I always suggest people in my groups should ideally be running RN/Codes addons.

Vet DLC's... medium level achievments EG: the odd +1, speedrun etc. A bit of flexibility, doesn't have to be fully meta, but does have to coordinate with the group well & be using addons or it just makes other peoples lives harder.

Trifectas & Full hardmodes: Meta only.