Rapids is a completely convenience level skill and not at all necessary for any content what-so-ever. You don't NEED it. Not at all. I have 18 characters, 15 of which are PVP and most of those 15 are under 20 speed horses because I always forget to do that, all of which have leveled up doing every dolmen in the game, and not one of my characters has ever used rapids. It is a waste of a skill slot, especially for PVE overland content. And in PVP, you are better off with a few dedicated players in the group running it than the whole group wasting skill slots.

On the other hand, having a reliable self heal is pretty necessary.

So I'll go with actual necessity over convenience.

I have 9 characters and I'd lose rapids on 8 of them. I'd probably quit the game if I had to play without it.

This change would be terrible. PLEASE don't do this!

Wait what.. I am CP400 done a few vet craglorn trials and I don't even know rapid exist.. talk about it being essential

Guyle wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Rapids is a completely convenience level skill and not at all necessary for any content what-so-ever. You don't NEED it. Not at all. I have 18 characters, 15 of which are PVP and most of those 15 are under 20 speed horses because I always forget to do that, all of which have leveled up doing every dolmen in the game, and not one of my characters has ever used rapids. It is a waste of a skill slot, especially for PVE overland content. And in PVP, you are better off with a few dedicated players in the group running it than the whole group wasting skill slots.

On the other hand, having a reliable self heal is pretty necessary.

So I'll go with actual necessity over convenience.

[snip] you can use an addon to quickly swap rapids onto your bar, use it and it goes back off your bar, and you enjoy major gallop for awhile. Why wouldnt you use rapids lol? I mean I guess if you are used to getting from point A to B at a painfully slow pace, then its no big deal. You won't feel it, but a lot of us will.

Sure I'll just magically make addons appear on 2/3rds of the platforms.

But I love that you are calling a player who doesn't use a skill that provides convenience only lazy. Rapids is convenience. Convenience isn't needed. It is desired sure. But far from necessary.

I played through as a new character with no knowledge of Rapids; I just assumed it was a class ability as a new player which I would assume most new players do. And yes I have not even done the "For Glory!" intro quest which is why I didn't unlock any skill lines. In fact I would have likely never done PvP for anything if someone didn't bring up Caltrops to me when it was good and that's what prompted me to do PvP. The method I obtained Caltrops as a primarily PvE player was focusing on repairing forts after they got taken and a few hours later I had most of the skill line since Caltrops was quite far down.

I don't see either ability as very "necessary" I leveled two characters to 50 without rapids and didn't have rapids until CP270ish. With how many wayshrines on each map there are and all you are doing is questing it's a leisure activity that doesn't really require a "rush" of a mount.

Vigor I see kind of the same way; I play as a stam NB and ever since getting the skill it's been rather vital to my survivability because... to be frank our in-class stam healing is a bad comedians act. But even though it's important to NB it isn't important to solo players who's classes already have well put together heals such as Sorcerer, Templar, and Warden. The other two classes being Dragonkight and Necro still have okay heals but Vigor is still better than anything their kit and I think everyone knows nothing in the NB stam kit even brushes Vigor.

Both can be counted as necessary in the right context but that's all it is at the end of the day; I feel like a casual player would notice either or missing but I think Rapids will go missed less since it's a group buff and in most cases that's more meaningful in groups rather than solo play aside from convenience factor.

I think the overall solution is Rapid Maneuver could be switched with something in the Support line like Revealing Flare and both of them can be moved to rank 1 skills.

Definitely do NOT want this switched! If you're going to change something, make vigor need less than rank 5 to acquire.

Or maybe make rapids not require a skill slot. Just put it as the first passive skill, and activate it whenever you sprint. Make it a toggle for those who don't want it or need to turn it off for something.

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Guyle wrote: »

Jeffrey530 wrote: »

Wait what.. I am CP400 done a few vet craglorn trials and I don't even know rapid exist.. talk about it being essential

Then I'd assume you didn't know vigor existed either, equally essential to you then. What point were you trying to make here?

um... my point obviously that rapid is not essential/ less important than vigor? I actually do use vigor btw, it is definitely way more important than rapid in pvp lol, in pve well I won't call either as essential.

Then how you didnt know that rapid exists?
You never read skill descriptions in the lines you use?

I've just done the Psijiic questline on an alt. I need the shield for my particular build. I can only imagine how painful that would have been without raps. If the current changes go ahead then this character will lose raps and get a heal he does not need.

Just put vigor in support, where a healing skill should be. Or as has been suggested in the World skill line.

Galwylin wrote: »

I would offer some pushback in that the game is almost unplayable with beginning mount speed. I don't agree. At the early levels I just run everywhere. You have sprint for a burst of speed if needed. I know Cyrodill is a nightmare at slow mount speeds which is one reason I avoid it at low levels. In almost every new character's creation, I focus on getting my mount stats up by just logging in characters (currently three) and training even if I don't do anything else with them. But they are still playable and in most cases (Cyrodill being the exception to me) its fine. I think its Cyrodill that's the problem because even at max speed it just takes too long for any kind of travel. So I'm okay with this change but I'm okay if its not changed.

Cyrodiil for sure, but also group activities like World Bosses and Dragons, for example, where players outside the group can engage the boss before everyone is there and you miss out and have to wait for the boss to respawn.

Ratinira wrote: »

I reme

AlnilamE wrote: »

Galwylin wrote: »

I would offer some pushback in that the game is almost unplayable with beginning mount speed. I don't agree. At the early levels I just run everywhere. You have sprint for a burst of speed if needed. I know Cyrodill is a nightmare at slow mount speeds which is one reason I avoid it at low levels. In almost every new character's creation, I focus on getting my mount stats up by just logging in characters (currently three) and training even if I don't do anything else with them. But they are still playable and in most cases (Cyrodill being the exception to me) its fine. I think its Cyrodill that's the problem because even at max speed it just takes too long for any kind of travel. So I'm okay with this change but I'm okay if its not changed.

Cyrodiil for sure, but also group activities like World Bosses and Dragons, for example, where players outside the group can engage the boss before everyone is there and you miss out and have to wait for the boss to respawn.

I remember when Elsweyr been released and I was trying to reach a dragon with a new character... on that snail pony... and all players were outracing me and the sign of dragon disappearing from compass...
time to start running after another one...

Wasn't very fun...

This. I joined ESO back during Elsweyr. ZOS released that Dragon Challenge event not long after I joined, and I wanted to participate.

..It was painful to get to dragons. That is, until I discovered there was a skill that could increase mount speed. This is why I'm so defensive of Rapids. I've experienced first hand how awesome it is to have from a new player perspective.

And why I'm so disappointed that ZOS is making it harder to get it when there are alternative ways to make both Vigor AND Rapids easy to get.

Hurbster wrote: »

And let's not forget, this is a problem 100% created by Zenimax.

indeed and yet the eaiest soloution that i and 100 of others have pointed out is to simply move vigor to support that way you unlock both with the pvp intro quest.

but the fact they didnt think of that and that there is zero indication they are are thinking "huh thats not a bad idea lets do that instead" makes me feel that this is a mothod to ram the sotre down our throats.

It is a common sense solution, as people here have said. Swap Vigour for Siege Shield, problem solved. I don't use Rapid Manoeuvre, personally, so if this change went through as is, it'd not be an issue for me. But it *would* be for a lot of others, so please just swap out Vigour for Siege Shield, the latter of which no-one's going to use for PvE anyway lol. If we're talking combat-critical abilities, Vigour does rather take the cake, I feel.

Ursinos wrote: »

but does anyone else have the cynical thought that this change is more about Zos wanting to drive more people to spending crowns on riding lesson packs in the crown store, than actually helping stam characters?

Well that's a great way to disgust their player base and get them to leave the game permanently. I HOPE that's not what's happening here.