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Please do not swap rapids with vigor – QOL deterioration
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kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Switch rapids with vigor
I mean...everyone telling people they don't need Rapids right away is doing the same exact thing, "I don't need it so who cares". And you say in those few hours you can have a heal and risk small fights, but you're acting like dying some in those few hours is this huge major inconvenience. You'll die in PvP anyways, this logic doesn't change the fact that it goes both ways for Vigor AND Rapids; if it's not that hard to get, and doesn't take that long, then it shouldn't matter which skill is where. PvPers will get it with only a little work either way, right? Those few hours where you might die without Vigor aren't any more or less important than a person spending a few hours to be able to get Rapids. I just don't understand people saying "you can wait to get X skill because it only takes <insert time period here> and is easy to get" but don't want to admit that logic applies to a skill that's already in the same slot.kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I use Rapids ALL the time. It's become quite automatic for me to press the skill button for it whenever I get on my mount for every character.
And I have a lot of alts that need skyshards for the purposes of doing daily crafting writs. I am not going to do 15 BGs on EACH and every one of my alts for a skill that, by all rights, I have already earned.
I do not understand why Vigor is an assault skill and why they can't just switch it with Siege Shield. I don't see anybody arguing for Siege Shield to stay where it is, and I don't understand why people want to make it harder to get Rapids just for the sake of making it harder to get Rapids instead of simply moving Vigor to Siege Shield's spot. There's a potential for everybody to be happy here; why should we not seize this potential?
Cause people use Siege Shield to not get showered in oils and PvP not only has skyshards you get skill points as you rank up so why not do a few BG or PvP you still get you're skill points
EXACTLY. Why can't people just do a few BG to get their Siege Shield back, they'll still get their skill points
And it will be mostly PVPers who DO love PVP who would want Siege Shield , so they probably wouldn't mind ranking their PVP skill to level 5.
Meanwhile lots of people who PVE use Rapids all the time, so it only makes sense to have it unlock first.
PvP should move a shield that cuts Flaming Oils in PvP just so PvE players can save a few hours. Siege Shield helps you take a keep Vigor helps you live in a fight but all of that can wait cause a PvE not be bothered to do the content. PvE players are so selfish and toxic HOW DARE THE PVP LINE BE MADE MORE CONVENIENT TO THE PEOPLE THAT USE.
PvP player here, and I still stand by the notion that moving Rapids is a bad idea for all the reasons discussed. I do like the idea of moving Vigor to an easier place, but I don't see it being a better first slot in Assault.
It is for stamina that needs a heal. The level of selfishness is unholy "Well I don't need it so who cares"
It's really simple Vigor in slot 1 helps PvPer that need it Rapids in slot one is more convenient to a group it was not made for.
Case and point Bow skill many only used the bow as a buff bar and fire off Poison Arrow and swap ZoS made Snipe first and Poison Arrow last pissed off the buff bar but it was changed to help people that main the Bow. It's not about what it can do for you in PvE it's a PvP skill that you feel like you have a right to get Rapids no matter what's better for PvP is selfish the PvP line focusing on bettering PvP is not selfish.kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I use Rapids ALL the time. It's become quite automatic for me to press the skill button for it whenever I get on my mount for every character.
And I have a lot of alts that need skyshards for the purposes of doing daily crafting writs. I am not going to do 15 BGs on EACH and every one of my alts for a skill that, by all rights, I have already earned.
I do not understand why Vigor is an assault skill and why they can't just switch it with Siege Shield. I don't see anybody arguing for Siege Shield to stay where it is, and I don't understand why people want to make it harder to get Rapids just for the sake of making it harder to get Rapids instead of simply moving Vigor to Siege Shield's spot. There's a potential for everybody to be happy here; why should we not seize this potential?
Cause people use Siege Shield to not get showered in oils and PvP not only has skyshards you get skill points as you rank up so why not do a few BG or PvP you still get you're skill points
EXACTLY. Why can't people just do a few BG to get their Siege Shield back, they'll still get their skill points And it will be mostly PVPers who DO love PVP who would want Siege Shield , so they probably wouldn't mind ranking their PVP skill to level 5.
Meanwhile lots of people who PVE use Rapids all the time, so it only makes sense to have it unlock first.
PvP should move a shield that cuts Flaming Oils in PvP just so PvE players can save a few hours. Siege Shield helps you take a keep Vigor helps you live in a fight but all of that can wait cause a PvE not be bothered to do the content. PvE players are so selfish and toxic HOW DARE THE PVP LINE BE MADE MORE CONVENIENT TO THE PEOPLE THAT USE.
what I'm realizing is that it has nothing to do with OUR selfishness and everything to do with you being happy that pve players get something taken away from them, so now you can gloat at them and have more fodder in pvp to chew without challenge on.
everything you have been saying only makes sense if you admit that its about sticking it to pve players.
It's not about sticking it to anyone having to do the content for the reward is standard you not waiting to do more is not a good point. No one said you had to fight I listed how to get AP without danger Siege from the walls this is not really fun if you like PvP but if you just want the AP or don't have strong heal it's your best bet.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is nowOreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Rank 5 is like 90kap. That is barely an hour for anyone who knows what they are doing. For new players, a short venture into pvp for the first time wont make them stop playing the game. Most new players wont even know about the ability until someone tells them about it anyways.
Exactly. Rank 5 is 90k AP. It'll only take an hour for you to get Vigor.
The vast majority of the population does not average 90k AP an hour outside of Midyear Mayhem. A new player to PVP wont be anywhere near that. Not saying its some monumental task, but let's be realistic about it for purposes of the debate.
Yes, but that is the argument that is being given for people who think rapids should not be moved: That it would take about an hour or so in PvP to get enough AP to unlock Rapids (multiplied by the number of characters you have that need it).
We are just saying that this argument is as valid as saying it will only take an hour or so in PvP to unlock Vigor (multiplied by the number of characters who need it) - WHILE YOU ALREADY HAVE RAPIDS TO MOVE AROUND FASTER.The Moot Councillor2 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Switch rapids with vigorkendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I use Rapids ALL the time. It's become quite automatic for me to press the skill button for it whenever I get on my mount for every character.
And I have a lot of alts that need skyshards for the purposes of doing daily crafting writs. I am not going to do 15 BGs on EACH and every one of my alts for a skill that, by all rights, I have already earned.
I do not understand why Vigor is an assault skill and why they can't just switch it with Siege Shield. I don't see anybody arguing for Siege Shield to stay where it is, and I don't understand why people want to make it harder to get Rapids just for the sake of making it harder to get Rapids instead of simply moving Vigor to Siege Shield's spot. There's a potential for everybody to be happy here; why should we not seize this potential?
Cause people use Siege Shield to not get showered in oils and PvP not only has skyshards you get skill points as you rank up so why not do a few BG or PvP you still get you're skill points
EXACTLY. Why can't people just do a few BG to get their Siege Shield back, they'll still get their skill points And it will be mostly PVPers who DO love PVP who would want Siege Shield , so they probably wouldn't mind ranking their PVP skill to level 5.
Meanwhile lots of people who PVE use Rapids all the time, so it only makes sense to have it unlock first.
PvP should move a shield that cuts Flaming Oils in PvP just so PvE players can save a few hours. Siege Shield helps you take a keep Vigor helps you live in a fight but all of that can wait cause a PvE not be bothered to do the content. PvE players are so selfish and toxic HOW DARE THE PVP LINE BE MADE MORE CONVENIENT TO THE PEOPLE THAT USE.
Siege Shield is a collective skill though. You can stand under someone else's shield and be protected. You don't need to slot it yourself. Most of my characters don't slot it. Only my healer does.
So hope someone else has in unlocked, has it on bar and places near you. It happens hell I place shields on People but it's not common sometime you need it on you.
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AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is nowkendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »
I mean...everyone telling people they don't need Rapids right away is doing the same exact thing, "I don't need it so who cares". And you say in those few hours you can have a heal and risk small fights, but you're acting like dying some in those few hours is this huge major inconvenience. You'll die in PvP anyways, this logic doesn't change the fact that it goes both ways for Vigor AND Rapids; if it's not that hard to get, and doesn't take that long, then it shouldn't matter which skill is where. PvPers will get it with only a little work either way, right? Those few hours where you might die without Vigor aren't any more or less important than a person spending a few hours to be able to get Rapids. I just don't understand people saying "you can wait to get X skill because it only takes <insert time period here> and is easy to get" but don't want to admit that logic applies to a skill that's already in the same slot.kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I use Rapids ALL the time. It's become quite automatic for me to press the skill button for it whenever I get on my mount for every character.
And I have a lot of alts that need skyshards for the purposes of doing daily crafting writs. I am not going to do 15 BGs on EACH and every one of my alts for a skill that, by all rights, I have already earned.
I do not understand why Vigor is an assault skill and why they can't just switch it with Siege Shield. I don't see anybody arguing for Siege Shield to stay where it is, and I don't understand why people want to make it harder to get Rapids just for the sake of making it harder to get Rapids instead of simply moving Vigor to Siege Shield's spot. There's a potential for everybody to be happy here; why should we not seize this potential?
Cause people use Siege Shield to not get showered in oils and PvP not only has skyshards you get skill points as you rank up so why not do a few BG or PvP you still get you're skill points
EXACTLY. Why can't people just do a few BG to get their Siege Shield back, they'll still get their skill points And it will be mostly PVPers who DO love PVP who would want Siege Shield , so they probably wouldn't mind ranking their PVP skill to level 5.
Meanwhile lots of people who PVE use Rapids all the time, so it only makes sense to have it unlock first.
PvP should move a shield that cuts Flaming Oils in PvP just so PvE players can save a few hours. Siege Shield helps you take a keep Vigor helps you live in a fight but all of that can wait cause a PvE not be bothered to do the content. PvE players are so selfish and toxic HOW DARE THE PVP LINE BE MADE MORE CONVENIENT TO THE PEOPLE THAT USE.
PvP player here, and I still stand by the notion that moving Rapids is a bad idea for all the reasons discussed. I do like the idea of moving Vigor to an easier place, but I don't see it being a better first slot in Assault.
It is for stamina that needs a heal. The level of selfishness is unholy "Well I don't need it so who cares"
It's really simple Vigor in slot 1 helps PvPer that need it Rapids in slot one is more convenient to a group it was not made for.
Case and point Bow skill many only used the bow as a buff bar and fire off Poison Arrow and swap ZoS made Snipe first and Poison Arrow last pissed off the buff bar but it was changed to help people that main the Bow. It's not about what it can do for you in PvE it's a PvP skill that you feel like you have a right to get Rapids no matter what's better for PvP is selfish the PvP line focusing on bettering PvP is not selfish.kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I use Rapids ALL the time. It's become quite automatic for me to press the skill button for it whenever I get on my mount for every character.
And I have a lot of alts that need skyshards for the purposes of doing daily crafting writs. I am not going to do 15 BGs on EACH and every one of my alts for a skill that, by all rights, I have already earned.
I do not understand why Vigor is an assault skill and why they can't just switch it with Siege Shield. I don't see anybody arguing for Siege Shield to stay where it is, and I don't understand why people want to make it harder to get Rapids just for the sake of making it harder to get Rapids instead of simply moving Vigor to Siege Shield's spot. There's a potential for everybody to be happy here; why should we not seize this potential?
Cause people use Siege Shield to not get showered in oils and PvP not only has skyshards you get skill points as you rank up so why not do a few BG or PvP you still get you're skill points
EXACTLY. Why can't people just do a few BG to get their Siege Shield back, they'll still get their skill points And it will be mostly PVPers who DO love PVP who would want Siege Shield , so they probably wouldn't mind ranking their PVP skill to level 5.
Meanwhile lots of people who PVE use Rapids all the time, so it only makes sense to have it unlock first.
PvP should move a shield that cuts Flaming Oils in PvP just so PvE players can save a few hours. Siege Shield helps you take a keep Vigor helps you live in a fight but all of that can wait cause a PvE not be bothered to do the content. PvE players are so selfish and toxic HOW DARE THE PVP LINE BE MADE MORE CONVENIENT TO THE PEOPLE THAT USE.
what I'm realizing is that it has nothing to do with OUR selfishness and everything to do with you being happy that pve players get something taken away from them, so now you can gloat at them and have more fodder in pvp to chew without challenge on.
everything you have been saying only makes sense if you admit that its about sticking it to pve players.
It's not about sticking it to anyone having to do the content for the reward is standard you not waiting to do more is not a good point. No one said you had to fight I listed how to get AP without danger Siege from the walls this is not really fun if you like PvP but if you just want the AP or don't have strong heal it's your best bet.
I'm sorry, but siege from the walls IS the most fun part of PvP (well, taking and defending keeps in general).The Moot Councillor0 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Switch rapids with vigorkendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »
I mean...everyone telling people they don't need Rapids right away is doing the same exact thing, "I don't need it so who cares". And you say in those few hours you can have a heal and risk small fights, but you're acting like dying some in those few hours is this huge major inconvenience. You'll die in PvP anyways, this logic doesn't change the fact that it goes both ways for Vigor AND Rapids; if it's not that hard to get, and doesn't take that long, then it shouldn't matter which skill is where. PvPers will get it with only a little work either way, right? Those few hours where you might die without Vigor aren't any more or less important than a person spending a few hours to be able to get Rapids. I just don't understand people saying "you can wait to get X skill because it only takes <insert time period here> and is easy to get" but don't want to admit that logic applies to a skill that's already in the same slot.kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I use Rapids ALL the time. It's become quite automatic for me to press the skill button for it whenever I get on my mount for every character.
And I have a lot of alts that need skyshards for the purposes of doing daily crafting writs. I am not going to do 15 BGs on EACH and every one of my alts for a skill that, by all rights, I have already earned.
I do not understand why Vigor is an assault skill and why they can't just switch it with Siege Shield. I don't see anybody arguing for Siege Shield to stay where it is, and I don't understand why people want to make it harder to get Rapids just for the sake of making it harder to get Rapids instead of simply moving Vigor to Siege Shield's spot. There's a potential for everybody to be happy here; why should we not seize this potential?
Cause people use Siege Shield to not get showered in oils and PvP not only has skyshards you get skill points as you rank up so why not do a few BG or PvP you still get you're skill points
EXACTLY. Why can't people just do a few BG to get their Siege Shield back, they'll still get their skill points And it will be mostly PVPers who DO love PVP who would want Siege Shield , so they probably wouldn't mind ranking their PVP skill to level 5.
Meanwhile lots of people who PVE use Rapids all the time, so it only makes sense to have it unlock first.
PvP should move a shield that cuts Flaming Oils in PvP just so PvE players can save a few hours. Siege Shield helps you take a keep Vigor helps you live in a fight but all of that can wait cause a PvE not be bothered to do the content. PvE players are so selfish and toxic HOW DARE THE PVP LINE BE MADE MORE CONVENIENT TO THE PEOPLE THAT USE.
PvP player here, and I still stand by the notion that moving Rapids is a bad idea for all the reasons discussed. I do like the idea of moving Vigor to an easier place, but I don't see it being a better first slot in Assault.
It is for stamina that needs a heal. The level of selfishness is unholy "Well I don't need it so who cares"
It's really simple Vigor in slot 1 helps PvPer that need it Rapids in slot one is more convenient to a group it was not made for.
Case and point Bow skill many only used the bow as a buff bar and fire off Poison Arrow and swap ZoS made Snipe first and Poison Arrow last pissed off the buff bar but it was changed to help people that main the Bow. It's not about what it can do for you in PvE it's a PvP skill that you feel like you have a right to get Rapids no matter what's better for PvP is selfish the PvP line focusing on bettering PvP is not selfish.kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I use Rapids ALL the time. It's become quite automatic for me to press the skill button for it whenever I get on my mount for every character.
And I have a lot of alts that need skyshards for the purposes of doing daily crafting writs. I am not going to do 15 BGs on EACH and every one of my alts for a skill that, by all rights, I have already earned.
I do not understand why Vigor is an assault skill and why they can't just switch it with Siege Shield. I don't see anybody arguing for Siege Shield to stay where it is, and I don't understand why people want to make it harder to get Rapids just for the sake of making it harder to get Rapids instead of simply moving Vigor to Siege Shield's spot. There's a potential for everybody to be happy here; why should we not seize this potential?
Cause people use Siege Shield to not get showered in oils and PvP not only has skyshards you get skill points as you rank up so why not do a few BG or PvP you still get you're skill points
EXACTLY. Why can't people just do a few BG to get their Siege Shield back, they'll still get their skill points And it will be mostly PVPers who DO love PVP who would want Siege Shield , so they probably wouldn't mind ranking their PVP skill to level 5.
Meanwhile lots of people who PVE use Rapids all the time, so it only makes sense to have it unlock first.
PvP should move a shield that cuts Flaming Oils in PvP just so PvE players can save a few hours. Siege Shield helps you take a keep Vigor helps you live in a fight but all of that can wait cause a PvE not be bothered to do the content. PvE players are so selfish and toxic HOW DARE THE PVP LINE BE MADE MORE CONVENIENT TO THE PEOPLE THAT USE.
what I'm realizing is that it has nothing to do with OUR selfishness and everything to do with you being happy that pve players get something taken away from them, so now you can gloat at them and have more fodder in pvp to chew without challenge on.
everything you have been saying only makes sense if you admit that its about sticking it to pve players.
It's not about sticking it to anyone having to do the content for the reward is standard you not waiting to do more is not a good point. No one said you had to fight I listed how to get AP without danger Siege from the walls this is not really fun if you like PvP but if you just want the AP or don't have strong heal it's your best bet.
I'm sorry, but siege from the walls IS the most fun part of PvP (well, taking and defending keeps in general).
If you enjoy it do your thing I like being the fight. Not knowing what's going to happen wall siege and zergs are not fun for me at leaseChaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
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Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
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Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
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For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void0 -
Rehdaun✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is nowYet another attempt to stick it to existing players leveling new toons. Take away the one useful skill for both pve and pvp and shove it half way down the skill line. Then advertise that you can purchase the line with crowns. This isn't anything more than a cash grab, plain and simple.3 -
CMDR_Un1k0rn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Switch rapids with vigorYet another attempt to stick it to existing players leveling new toons. Take away the one useful skill for both pve and pvp and shove it half way down the skill line. Then advertise that you can purchase the line with crowns. This isn't anything more than a cash grab, plain and simple.
Half way down?
It's not even a tenth of the grind needed to hit Alliance 10.In-game username: Un1korn | Happy member of the PCNA UESP guild (Resident Daggerfall Covenant enjoyer) | Main & basically only character: Crucian Vulpin, Imperial Dragonknight of the Daggerfall Covenant, and Undaunted Bulwark (I tank) | Mountain bike enjoyer and vulpine appreciator | If you know me from PCEU: No | To ZOS: THANK YOU FOR LETTING ME BRING MY HORSE INTO BATTLE!0 -
SydneyGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is nowThey should leave Rapids where it is, and just make it so Vigor is unlocked at Alliance War level 2. Simple.3 -
ImmortalCX✭✭✭✭✭This solves several objectives.
*Makes the stam and mag leveling process more equal. Mag toons only have to grab rapids, do about 15 minutes in cyr, where a stam toon needs 2-3 days.
*Makes fast travel more exclusive and locked behind pvp, which will put more people in there. Increase PVP population. And make one of the BEST skills in the game take a little effort to accomplish.
*Slow down noob travel.
*Make money by selling ridiing scrolls.
0 -
tmbrinks✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Rank 5 is like 90kap. That is barely an hour for anyone who knows what they are doing. For new players, a short venture into pvp for the first time wont make them stop playing the game. Most new players wont even know about the ability until someone tells them about it anyways.
Exactly. Rank 5 is 90k AP. It'll only take an hour for you to get Vigor.
The vast majority of the population does not average 90k AP an hour outside of Midyear Mayhem. A new player to PVP wont be anywhere near that. Not saying its some monumental task, but let's be realistic about it for purposes of the debate.
completely agree. Just use the hour that Minc stated in the retort.The Unshattered - Tenacious Dreamer - Hurricane Herald - Godslayer - Dawnbringer - Gryphon Heart - Tick Tock Tormenter - Immortal Redeemer - Dro-m'Athra DestroyerThe Unchained - The Brilliant - Moth Trusted - The Just - Oathsworn - Bedlam's Disciple - Temporal Tempest - Curator's Champion - Fist of Tava - Invader's Bane - Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy - Zero Regrets - Battlespire's Best - Bastion Breaker - Ardent Bibliophile - Subterranean Smasher - Bane of Thorns - True Genius - In Defiance of Death - No Rest for the Wicked - Nature's Wrath - Undying Endurance - Relentless Raider - Depths Defier - Apex Predator - Pure Lunacy - Mountain God - Leave No Bone Unbroken - CoS/RoM/BF/FH Challenger70,730 achievement points0 -
BigBragg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is nowkendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I use Rapids ALL the time. It's become quite automatic for me to press the skill button for it whenever I get on my mount for every character.
And I have a lot of alts that need skyshards for the purposes of doing daily crafting writs. I am not going to do 15 BGs on EACH and every one of my alts for a skill that, by all rights, I have already earned.
I do not understand why Vigor is an assault skill and why they can't just switch it with Siege Shield. I don't see anybody arguing for Siege Shield to stay where it is, and I don't understand why people want to make it harder to get Rapids just for the sake of making it harder to get Rapids instead of simply moving Vigor to Siege Shield's spot. There's a potential for everybody to be happy here; why should we not seize this potential?
Cause people use Siege Shield to not get showered in oils and PvP not only has skyshards you get skill points as you rank up so why not do a few BG or PvP you still get you're skill points
EXACTLY. Why can't people just do a few BG to get their Siege Shield back, they'll still get their skill points And it will be mostly PVPers who DO love PVP who would want Siege Shield , so they probably wouldn't mind ranking their PVP skill to level 5.
Meanwhile lots of people who PVE use Rapids all the time, so it only makes sense to have it unlock first.
PvP should move a shield that cuts Flaming Oils in PvP just so PvE players can save a few hours. Siege Shield helps you take a keep Vigor helps you live in a fight but all of that can wait cause a PvE not be bothered to do the content. PvE players are so selfish and toxic HOW DARE THE PVP LINE BE MADE MORE CONVENIENT TO THE PEOPLE THAT USE.
PvP player here, and I still stand by the notion that moving Rapids is a bad idea for all the reasons discussed. I do like the idea of moving Vigor to an easier place, but I don't see it being a better first slot in Assault.
It is for stamina that needs a heal. The level of selfishness is unholy "Well I don't need it so who cares"
I PvP with stamina and magicka. [snip]
It's not that we disagree it's the fact that reordering a PvP skill line to help survival is being called out cause people in PvE world use it and it saves them time so it shouldn't be moved or it can be moved so long as you move siege shield and put rapids in it's place. Both ways are the same level of IDC how this helps players it was made for that need the help cause I'm going to loss my speed buff.
[snip] it's QOL it's convenient Vigor and Siege Shield is not convenient it's survival.
[snip] Rapids is used by Magicka, stamina, PvP, and PvE to actually get to destinations in a timely manner so that players can actually participate in events. You wanting to slow players down, causing them to miss fights so that it's easier for you to live right of the bat, [snip] It also happens to benifit a substantially smaller segment of characters.
[edited for baiting]Edited by ZOS_Lunar on July 16, 2020 12:16PM8 -
redgreensunset✭✭✭✭✭
✭Switch rapids with vigorkendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I use Rapids ALL the time. It's become quite automatic for me to press the skill button for it whenever I get on my mount for every character.
And I have a lot of alts that need skyshards for the purposes of doing daily crafting writs. I am not going to do 15 BGs on EACH and every one of my alts for a skill that, by all rights, I have already earned.
I do not understand why Vigor is an assault skill and why they can't just switch it with Siege Shield. I don't see anybody arguing for Siege Shield to stay where it is, and I don't understand why people want to make it harder to get Rapids just for the sake of making it harder to get Rapids instead of simply moving Vigor to Siege Shield's spot. There's a potential for everybody to be happy here; why should we not seize this potential?
Cause people use Siege Shield to not get showered in oils and PvP not only has skyshards you get skill points as you rank up so why not do a few BG or PvP you still get you're skill points
EXACTLY. Why can't people just do a few BG to get their Siege Shield back, they'll still get their skill points And it will be mostly PVPers who DO love PVP who would want Siege Shield , so they probably wouldn't mind ranking their PVP skill to level 5.
Meanwhile lots of people who PVE use Rapids all the time, so it only makes sense to have it unlock first.
PvP should move a shield that cuts Flaming Oils in PvP just so PvE players can save a few hours. Siege Shield helps you take a keep Vigor helps you live in a fight but all of that can wait cause a PvE not be bothered to do the content. PvE players are so selfish and toxic HOW DARE THE PVP LINE BE MADE MORE CONVENIENT TO THE PEOPLE THAT USE.
PvP player here, and I still stand by the notion that moving Rapids is a bad idea for all the reasons discussed. I do like the idea of moving Vigor to an easier place, but I don't see it being a better first slot in Assault.
It is for stamina that needs a heal. The level of selfishness is unholy "Well I don't need it so who cares"
I PvP with stamina and magicka. How does my opinion on this make me selfish, only because I disagree with yours? Come, come now. Please be a bit more civil. Save the fights for Cyrodiil.
It's not that we disagree it's the fact that reordering a PvP skill line to help survival is being called out cause people in PvE world use it and it saves them time so it shouldn't be moved or it can be moved so long as you move siege shield and put rapids in it's place. Both ways are the same level of IDC how this helps players it was made for that need the help cause I'm going to loss my speed buff.
It's selfish plain and simple. It's be said over and over and over again it's QOL it's convenient Vigor and Siege Shield is not convenient it's survival.
By that logic you are also selfish, perhaps even more so. Rapids is used by Magicka, stamina, PvP, and PvE to actually get to destinations in a timely manner so that players can actually participate in events. You wanting to slow players down, causing them to miss fights so that it's easier for you to live right of the bat, is by your logic a selfish desire because it's what you want and it serves how you play. It also happens to benifit a substantially smaller segment of characters.
Just group up with someone who has Rapids slotted an get them to use it. It affects the whole group.0 -
Rehdaun✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is nowOr maybe we can all buy that stupid double mount and pay Zos even more money. smh2
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Nomadic_Atmoran✭✭✭✭✭
✭Switch rapids with vigorOreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Rank 5 is like 90kap. That is barely an hour for anyone who knows what they are doing. For new players, a short venture into pvp for the first time wont make them stop playing the game. Most new players wont even know about the ability until someone tells them about it anyways.
Exactly. Rank 5 is 90k AP. It'll only take an hour for you to get Vigor.
The vast majority of the population does not average 90k AP an hour outside of Midyear Mayhem. A new player to PVP wont be anywhere near that. Not saying its some monumental task, but let's be realistic about it for purposes of the debate.
90k might not be an hour of play. But its definitely not impossible to accomplish in a short amount of time. You don't even need to touch anything to get ticks so you can show up at the tail end of a siege or a defense and reap the rewards. Also, anyone running a group in Cyrodiil has at the very least 1 person slotting rapids. So its not like new players won't be able to benefit from this ability unless they aren't grouped.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry - Laerinel Rhaev - Enrerion - Caius Berilius - Seylina Ithvala - Signa Squallrider - H'Vak the GrimjawlYynril Rothvani - Tenarei Rhaev - Bathes-In-Coin - Dazsh Ro Khar - Aredyhel - Reads-To-Frogs - Azjani Ma'LesKheshna gra-Gharbuk - Gallisten Bondurant - Aban Shahid Bakr - Etain Maquier - Atsu Kalame - Faulpia Severinus0 -
UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is now
Which you won't be able to do without Rapids, because you won't get there in time.Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Rank 5 is like 90kap. That is barely an hour for anyone who knows what they are doing. For new players, a short venture into pvp for the first time wont make them stop playing the game. Most new players wont even know about the ability until someone tells them about it anyways.
Exactly. Rank 5 is 90k AP. It'll only take an hour for you to get Vigor.
The vast majority of the population does not average 90k AP an hour outside of Midyear Mayhem. A new player to PVP wont be anywhere near that. Not saying its some monumental task, but let's be realistic about it for purposes of the debate.
90k might not be an hour of play. But its definitely not impossible to accomplish in a short amount of time. You don't even need to touch anything to get ticks so you can show up at the tail end of a siege or a defense and reap the rewards.
Which they won't be, because you know, they're new and don't know people to group with and outside of prime time there usually aren't any PUGs running in Cyrodiil (if they even know to ask in /zone which many new players wouldn't).Nomadic_Atmoran wrote: »Also, anyone running a group in Cyrodiil has at the very least 1 person slotting rapids. So its not like new players won't be able to benefit from this ability unless they aren't grouped.
Someone stole my sweetrollCaius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD)
J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD)Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP)
Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Switch rapids with vigorIn the PTS Patch Notes v6.1.0 we see a very unwelcoming change:
Alliance War
• Assault
o Vigor: This ability is now first in the skill line to unlock, and has swapped places with Rapid Maneuvers in efforts to help builds focused on Stamina to have a healthier leveling experience. Previous XP gained in both of these skills will be retained, but if your Assault skill line is too low to obtain the 3rd skill, you will have to level it in order to gain access to Rapid Maneuvers again.
I do not understand why this change is coming. Rapid Maneuver is one of the most important skills in the game on EVERY character, especially at low levels. Actually almost everyone I talked with about this change didn’t like it, so I’m curious what you guys on the forums think about it. For myself, everytime I make a new character the first thing I do is level it to 10 and enter Cyrodiil to do the starter quest and unlock rapids. The single reason for this is to make the character playable. The mount speed at early levels is so low that without rapids, everything you do takes almost double the time or even worse.
At this moment you need almost zero AP to unlock rapids and 98k to unlock vigor. On the PTS these values will be switched.
So why do I think we need rapids to stay on level 1:
- At low levels your mount speed is so low the game is almost unplayable. It also takes a huge amount of time to get this mount speed to an acceptable level. Rapids immediately makes the game playable because a better mount speed.
- Every build uses rapids, not every build uses vigor. Magicka users never use vigor and a lot of stamina builds don’t need vigor either. Vigor is for builds where survival depends highly on the player him/herself and not on the healer: vMA, PvP and endgame PvE group content.
- In fact, low leveled players don’t even need vigor! At lower levels a player is carried hugely by the increased attributes so should be able to complete most content with just that. A low level player cant even sustain vigor! It is by no means a reliable heal at low levels…
- Not everyone has the time or money to plan all his alternate characters, buy character slots and already level the characters mount speed at a stable.
- Not everyone likes to PvP for the skills. While I agree rewards should only be given after someone has put energy into something, Rapids has been an AvA lvl 1 skill for a very long time now because it is immediately needed after character creation. And don’t get me wrong, I PvP maybe 50% or more of my time, so all of my alts already have both skills unlocked, but there are a lot of people who don’t have them both yet.
- Even if you want to PvP for it, it takes a huge amount of time to get the needed AP with a slow mount. On a leveled character, the AP is peanuts, but with no speed and low levels there are no means you will be at the AP ticks in Cyrodiil. You can’t yet defend yourself against higher leveled players so killing for AP is out of the question and imagine following a zerg that takes objectives in quick succession. You will miss almost every AP tick, except the keeps, which you will only get when your alliance does well. Let’s face it: the only way to level your AvA skill in a new character is by getting carried.
- Really, imagine again getting rapids on a slow mount, with maybe 10k AP/hour if have bad luck. Play 10 hours before you can use your character for the rest of the game.
- ZOS brings this as an upgrade for stamina builds, but what about all the other builds in the game? Stamina builds don’t even need it at low levels and getting it with rapids unlocked is much easier. Implementing this change will be a huge QOL deterioration.
- Please don’t force people into buying more crown store upgrades.
So this might be a lot of text, but I think its for the best of the game when we keep it as it is now.
What is everyone else thinking?
They probably swapped them to make it easier for PvE players who are just PvPing for access to a stamina-based heal. Rapid Maneuver - while it's convenient to have in PvE - really only shines in Cyrodil since the zone is so massive with long distances to travel. So it's more of a PvP-oriented skill, where as Vigor is more of a general purpose skill any stamina-based build is going to want access to in or out of PvP.Edited by Jeremy on July 15, 2020 10:13PM2 -
UrQuan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is now
Try grinding skyshards, mages guild books, psijic order, etc. with rapids and then without. Try getting to harrowstorms, geysers, dragons etc. before they're destroyed with rapids and then without. Then tell me that Rapids really only shines in Cyrodiil.They probably swapped them to make it easier for PvE players who are just PvPing for access to a stamina-based heal. Rapid Maneuver - while it's convenient to have in PvE - really only shines in Cyrodil since the zone is so massive with long distances to travel. So it's more of a PvP-oriented skill, where as Vigor is more of a general purpose skill any stamina-based build is going to want access to in or out of PvP.
Someone stole my sweetrollCaius Drusus Imperial DK (DC)
Bragg Ironhand Orc Temp (DC)
Neesha Stalks-Shadows Argonian NB (EP)
Falidir Altmer Sorcr (AD)
J'zharka Khajiit NB (AD)Isabeau Runeseer Breton Sorc (DC)
Fevassa Dunmer DK (EP)
Manut Redguard Temp (AD)
Tylera the Summoner Altmer Sorc (EP)
Svari Snake-Blood Nord DK (AD)Ashlyn D'Elyse Breton NB (EP)
Filindria Bosmer Temp (DC)
Vigbjorn the Wanderer Nord Warden (EP)
Hrokki Winterborn Breton Warden (DC)
Basks-in-the-Sunshine Argonian Temp6 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Switch rapids with vigor
Try grinding skyshards, mages guild books, psijic order, etc. with rapids and then without. Try getting to harrowstorms, geysers, dragons etc. before they're destroyed with rapids and then without. Then tell me that Rapids really only shines in Cyrodiil.They probably swapped them to make it easier for PvE players who are just PvPing for access to a stamina-based heal. Rapid Maneuver - while it's convenient to have in PvE - really only shines in Cyrodil since the zone is so massive with long distances to travel. So it's more of a PvP-oriented skill, where as Vigor is more of a general purpose skill any stamina-based build is going to want access to in or out of PvP.
I have already done all of those things without "Rapids". I don't slot Rapid Maneuver unless I'm in Cyrodil and I've had no problems doing all that stuff.
As I said in my post - it's a convenience in PvE - but isn't as important as having a heal.Edited by Jeremy on July 15, 2020 10:20PM2 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Switch rapids with vigorkendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »I use Rapids ALL the time. It's become quite automatic for me to press the skill button for it whenever I get on my mount for every character.
And I have a lot of alts that need skyshards for the purposes of doing daily crafting writs. I am not going to do 15 BGs on EACH and every one of my alts for a skill that, by all rights, I have already earned.
I do not understand why Vigor is an assault skill and why they can't just switch it with Siege Shield. I don't see anybody arguing for Siege Shield to stay where it is, and I don't understand why people want to make it harder to get Rapids just for the sake of making it harder to get Rapids instead of simply moving Vigor to Siege Shield's spot. There's a potential for everybody to be happy here; why should we not seize this potential?
Cause people use Siege Shield to not get showered in oils and PvP not only has skyshards you get skill points as you rank up so why not do a few BG or PvP you still get you're skill points
EXACTLY. Why can't people just do a few BG to get their Siege Shield back, they'll still get their skill points And it will be mostly PVPers who DO love PVP who would want Siege Shield , so they probably wouldn't mind ranking their PVP skill to level 5.
Meanwhile lots of people who PVE use Rapids all the time, so it only makes sense to have it unlock first.
PvP should move a shield that cuts Flaming Oils in PvP just so PvE players can save a few hours. Siege Shield helps you take a keep Vigor helps you live in a fight but all of that can wait cause a PvE not be bothered to do the content. PvE players are so selfish and toxic HOW DARE THE PVP LINE BE MADE MORE CONVENIENT TO THE PEOPLE THAT USE.
PvP player here, and I still stand by the notion that moving Rapids is a bad idea for all the reasons discussed. I do like the idea of moving Vigor to an easier place, but I don't see it being a better first slot in Assault.
It is for stamina that needs a heal. The level of selfishness is unholy "Well I don't need it so who cares"
I PvP with stamina and magicka. How does my opinion on this make me selfish, only because I disagree with yours? Come, come now. Please be a bit more civil. Save the fights for Cyrodiil.
It's not that we disagree it's the fact that reordering a PvP skill line to help survival is being called out cause people in PvE world use it and it saves them time so it shouldn't be moved or it can be moved so long as you move siege shield and put rapids in it's place. Both ways are the same level of IDC how this helps players it was made for that need the help cause I'm going to loss my speed buff.
It's selfish plain and simple. It's be said over and over and over again it's QOL it's convenient Vigor and Siege Shield is not convenient it's survival.
By that logic you are also selfish, perhaps even more so. Rapids is used by Magicka, stamina, PvP, and PvE to actually get to destinations in a timely manner so that players can actually participate in events. You wanting to slow players down, causing them to miss fights so that it's easier for you to live right of the bat, is by your logic a selfish desire because it's what you want and it serves how you play. It also happens to benifit a substantially smaller segment of characters.
His logic isn't "selfish".
He's just being honest. Being able to heal yourself in this game is vital. Being able to move around faster isn't.
Honestly, they should just move vigor out of the PvP skill line all together and add it to the Fighter's Guild or something. It's always been kind of silly to me that characters have to PvP in order to get a skill that is so fundamental. It's probably just a left over design flaw from back when the game was structured around magicka and "stamina builds" weren't really a thing.2 -
Cloudtrader✭✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is nowIt is much more important to keep up with groups in PvP with Rapids early on with your non-leveled mount than it is to actually try to heal yourself in a fight. You're going to die anyway, but if you have Rapids you might have an actual chance not to get ganked from falling way far behind the group on your slow newbie pony.2
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mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Other:Assault rank 1: Rapid Manoeuvres
Support rank 1: Vigor
Logically Vigor as a heal is a support skill whereas Rapids is an assault skiil.
Simply rejigging the skill lines seems a solution that makes everyone happy. Unfortunately, as I've said many times in several threads, ZOS have a tendency to monkey's paw logic these things. When an alternative exists where everybody wins, why do we always end up with winner and loser decisions?5 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Switch rapids with vigorCloudtrader wrote: »It is much more important to keep up with groups in PvP with Rapids early on with your non-leveled mount than it is to actually try to heal yourself in a fight. You're going to die anyway, but if you have Rapids you might have an actual chance not to get ganked from falling way far behind the group on your slow newbie pony.
That's very true.
But players who are interested in group PvP are more likely to actually engage Cyrodil in a serious way and therefore are probably going to end up getting a lot more AP than PvE players who don't even want to PvP in the first place and are just there to get a skill that lets them heal themselves.
1 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Switch rapids with vigorAssault rank 1: Rapid Manoeuvres
Support rank 1: Vigor
Logically Vigor as a heal is a support skill whereas Rapids is an assault skiil.
Simply rejigging the skill lines seems a solution that makes everyone happy. Unfortunately, as I've said many times in several threads, ZOS have a tendency to monkey's paw logic these things. When an alternative exists where everybody wins, why do we always end up with winner and loser decisions?
I like this idea.1 -
caperb✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep it as it is nowCloudtrader wrote: »It is much more important to keep up with groups in PvP with Rapids early on with your non-leveled mount than it is to actually try to heal yourself in a fight. You're going to die anyway, but if you have Rapids you might have an actual chance not to get ganked from falling way far behind the group on your slow newbie pony.
That's very true.
But players who are interested in group PvP are more likely to actually engage Cyrodil in a serious way and therefore are probably going to end up getting a lot more AP than PvE players who don't even want to PvP in the first place and are just there to get a skill that lets them heal themselves.
But the same thing counts for rapids if it is switched as it does with vigor now for players who don't want to PvP. If someone does not want to participate in PvP, it's their own choice for missing out on skills.
And for the lower levels, class heals are buffed anyway because of the buffed attributes. Anyone that wants vigor right now can conveniently get it at a low level because they have access to a half decent heal and increased mounted speed. I mean, after the switch players will be doing exactly the same things to get the skills but it will cost them much more time.2 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is nowCMDR_Un1k0rn wrote: »https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Alliance_Points
These are the actual numbers to get to Alliance 5.
It's not much, trust me.
So I am sticking with ZOS on this one. Switch Rapids with Vigor.
Contrary to popular belief, Rapids is absolutely not essential for PvE. It's a group buff anyway so the horse boost will be easy to get for everyone in those few Trials and Dungeons where fast mounts do make a difference. Only one group member needs it equipped.
Is it important in Cyrodiil? Very. But Vigor is even more important. Rapids will not keep you alive in a battle. Vigor will. This change is not for PvE players. That they do get some benefit from a good stamina heal is coincidence. I am glad of course. Not least because again, in group content, Vigor is far more useful for the stam-dd's and to a lesser extent, tanks. (I have some odd builds but they work lol)
But Rapids? That AP you need to get Alliance 5 is nothing. 98k AP is not a lot. It's a little bit of time in Cyrodiil. Actually, BG is plenty to do it. Make sure you take your daily quests as it'll speed things up a lot.
Will you be slow in Cyrodiil for a bit? Yes. But like I say, BG works well at this point and it's a useless skill there. Or play Cyrodiil smart and use the Transistus network. You'll be surprised. Especially in below-50 which is where you should level the skill line anyway, if going for the full Alliance 10.
Rapids may not keep you alive in cyrodill but you wont have to worry about that because the battle will be over by the time you get there. Which is really the point here. If horse training were more akin to pack upgrades it wouldn't be as bad. Or if Cyrodill was half the size it currently is then also not much of a deal. But there are many many many times where you need to get somewhere that is far away. I encourage you to go on PTS roll a new character get to level 10 and go to cyrodill without training your mount or using rapid and see how long it takes to travel.
Also while vigor is an awesome skill it is only used by stamina builds and even then only a portion of them. Everyone at one can use rapids. It's a skill that people use all of the time overland when not doing dungeons and trials. Seriously the land in Tamriel is huge. Please try crossing it without any wayshrine unlocked as a new player with no guild members to port to.3 -
Jeremy✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Switch rapids with vigorCloudtrader wrote: »It is much more important to keep up with groups in PvP with Rapids early on with your non-leveled mount than it is to actually try to heal yourself in a fight. You're going to die anyway, but if you have Rapids you might have an actual chance not to get ganked from falling way far behind the group on your slow newbie pony.
That's very true.
But players who are interested in group PvP are more likely to actually engage Cyrodil in a serious way and therefore are probably going to end up getting a lot more AP than PvE players who don't even want to PvP in the first place and are just there to get a skill that lets them heal themselves.
But the same thing counts for rapids if it is switched as it does with vigor now for players who don't want to PvP. If someone does not want to participate in PvP, it's their own choice for missing out on skills.
And for the lower levels, class heals are buffed anyway because of the buffed attributes. Anyone that wants vigor right now can conveniently get it at a low level because they have access to a half decent heal and increased mounted speed. I mean, after the switch players will be doing exactly the same things to get the skills but it will cost them much more time.
This assumes they are going to be running with groups to PvP with though, something I doubt a lot of new PvErs will do or even know to do.
Mairwen had a good suggestion - which was to swap Vigor to support and make it the first skill there. Or just take it off the PvP skill lines altogether and add it to the fighter's guild or something - which is probably what I would do.Edited by Jeremy on July 15, 2020 11:17PM2 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Keep it as it is nowFur_like_snow wrote: »So PvErs will have to spend MORE time in PvP to get rapids. *rubs paws together*
Lol wont happen. I predict the opposite, you will see Less PVErs in pvp. Maybe some more newer players, I typically only run the gauntlet for vigor. Rapids is most beneficial for new players. But smart PVErs will just do BGs. What you should expect is more dead weight In BGs because without rapids being first cyrodill will be a waste of time. So people will do BGs and if they are like me and just doing it for the skills they wont care if they lose. Your experience is probably going to be worse all around.3 -
Wolf_Eye✭✭✭✭✭
✭Keep it as it is nowwtlonewolf20 wrote: »Fur_like_snow wrote: »So PvErs will have to spend MORE time in PvP to get rapids. *rubs paws together*
Lol wont happen. I predict the opposite, you will see Less PVErs in pvp. Maybe some more newer players, I typically only run the gauntlet for vigor. Rapids is most beneficial for new players. But smart PVErs will just do BGs. What you should expect is more dead weight In BGs because without rapids being first cyrodill will be a waste of time. So people will do BGs and if they are like me and just doing it for the skills they wont care if they lose. Your experience is probably going to be worse all around.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
Similarly, you can require PvErs to do PvP to get their rapids back, but you can't make them enjoy it or put actual effort into it.
And it's not like ZOS can ban players for not doing well in a BG, so there won't be any recourse of action against a player that wanders about and just fires off the occasional light attack in a BG to the frustration of their teammates.1 -
mairwen85✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Other:wtlonewolf20 wrote: »Fur_like_snow wrote: »So PvErs will have to spend MORE time in PvP to get rapids. *rubs paws together*
Lol wont happen. I predict the opposite, you will see Less PVErs in pvp. Maybe some more newer players, I typically only run the gauntlet for vigor. Rapids is most beneficial for new players. But smart PVErs will just do BGs. What you should expect is more dead weight In BGs because without rapids being first cyrodill will be a waste of time. So people will do BGs and if they are like me and just doing it for the skills they wont care if they lose. Your experience is probably going to be worse all around.
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.
Similarly, you can require PvErs to do PvP to get their rapids back, but you can't make them enjoy it or put actual effort into it.
And it's not like ZOS can ban players for not doing well in a BG, so there won't be any recourse of action against a player that wanders about and just fires off the occasional light attack in a BG to the frustration of their teammates.
I do wish there was a means to deal with AFK AP farmers and spawn cowards though. I can't imagine what or how that would manifest, but having 1 team mate hide away from the action fot an entire match is really frustrating.0 -
Hurbster✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Keep it as it is nowAssault rank 1: Rapid Manoeuvres
Support rank 1: Vigor
Logically Vigor as a heal is a support skill whereas Rapids is an assault skill.
Simply rejigging the skill lines seems a solution that makes everyone happy. Unfortunately, as I've said many times in several threads, ZOS have a tendency to monkey's paw logic these things. When an alternative exists where everybody wins, why do we always end up with winner and loser decisions?
Makes so much sense.So they raised the floor and lowered the ceiling. Except the ceiling has spikes in it now and the floor is also lava.0