ESO direly need a central auction house ...

Lysette · June 2020

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.

In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.

But if you're one of those low volume sellers, why should you be railroaded through a guild at all?

Just give me a public vendor I can toss some extra gear on to make a few coins.

I'm not trying to "win" Economy Scrolls Online. I just want to not let some of my overland loot go to waste and make a few coins in the process that might buy me some potions when I run low and need some for a trial run

you don't need a trader for stuff which no one wants to buy - and if you have something people actually want, then it has as well value and you can use the guild system - doesn't have to be one which high traffic, because you don't need the money right away and you have as well no cost or nearly none there. And guild shops work as well without a trader, among their members - if your stuff doesn't sell there, then you have one where people do not buy in general most likely - then join another one or consider why no one wants to buy your stuff - eventually it is just trash or of a level which is useless for other members. Trying to sell furniture in a pvp guild might as well turn out to be difficult, but it might sell well in a role play guild - where people might not even care about skills or levels, but they want a decent backdrop.

Tigerseye · June 2020

Lysette wrote: »

Nah, i extended my post - please read why this would not benefit normal people.

Farming bots exist anyway.

Would make no difference to that.

Especially as you can have as many accounts as you like.

If they want to stop botting, they need to catch the botters and ban the botting accounts.

Tigerseye · June 2020

Lysette wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.

In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.

But if you're one of those low volume sellers, why should you be railroaded through a guild at all?

Just give me a public vendor I can toss some extra gear on to make a few coins.

I'm not trying to "win" Economy Scrolls Online. I just want to not let some of my overland loot go to waste and make a few coins in the process that might buy me some potions when I run low and need some for a trial run

you don't need a trader for stuff which no one wants to buy - and if you have something people actually want, then it has as well value and you can use the guild system - doesn't have to be one which high traffic, because you don't need the money right away and you have as well no cost or nearly none there. And guild shops work as well without a trader, among their members - if your stuff doesn't sell there, then you have one where people do not buy in general most likely - then join another one or consider why no one wants to buy your stuff - eventually it is just trash or of a level which is useless for other members. Trying to sell furniture in a pvp guild might as well turn out to be difficult, but it might sell well in a role play guild - where people might not even care about skills or levels, but they want a decent backdrop.

Lots of people want to buy furnishing mats and yet, there is often a shortage of them.

There is a limit to how much people can pay for them, simply because most furniture requires too many of them and there is only so much people are willing to pay for furniture.

This is why we need a more centralised warehouse system, to help people sell mats, without having to be a member of a guild, or use up their limited guild slots (even if they are).

Alternatively, we need a centralised auction house system, period.

I would prefer the compromise, but if people who don't want an auction house won't even consider a compromise, I will join the opposition against you.

Tigerseye · June 2020

idk wrote: »

Calling it a lie does not make it a lie. I seriously doubt many players, if any, have actually quit due to the choice of the trading system. Zos has no reason to worry as the player base has been consistently growing. Steam indicates this as well as Zos' need to increase server capacity for both PC servers last year due to the growth of the player base.

Seems to not be an issue by any means.

It is a lie, as you are almost certainly incorrect and you know you are.

As I already said earlier, when I leave this game, this will be a fairly major deciding factor in my leaving.

I find it very hard to believe I am alone, especially as I am not even 100% against the multiple trader system, as many are.

By the way, most of my friends have already left the game and I have a full friends list, which I keep having to remove people from who haven't been online for 10 months or more, to add more.

So, it's not even like I have just been able to let it stagnate for years, as you can only have 100 friends total.

I don't know why exactly they left and didn't come back, for 10 months or more, but they have done so and now hardly anyone (even of the ones I haven't removed, yet) is left.

So, player retention would appear to be a serious issue.

Lysette · July 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.

In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.

But if you're one of those low volume sellers, why should you be railroaded through a guild at all?

Just give me a public vendor I can toss some extra gear on to make a few coins.

I'm not trying to "win" Economy Scrolls Online. I just want to not let some of my overland loot go to waste and make a few coins in the process that might buy me some potions when I run low and need some for a trial run

you don't need a trader for stuff which no one wants to buy - and if you have something people actually want, then it has as well value and you can use the guild system - doesn't have to be one which high traffic, because you don't need the money right away and you have as well no cost or nearly none there. And guild shops work as well without a trader, among their members - if your stuff doesn't sell there, then you have one where people do not buy in general most likely - then join another one or consider why no one wants to buy your stuff - eventually it is just trash or of a level which is useless for other members. Trying to sell furniture in a pvp guild might as well turn out to be difficult, but it might sell well in a role play guild - where people might not even care about skills or levels, but they want a decent backdrop.

Lots of people want to buy furnishing mats and yet, there is often a shortage of them.

There is a limit to how much people can pay for them, simply because most furniture requires too many of them and there is only so much people are willing to pay for furniture.

This is why we need a more centralised warehouse system, to help people sell mats, without having to be a member of a guild, or use up their limited guild slots (even if they are).

Alternatively, we need a centralised auction house system, period.

I would prefer the compromise, but if people who don't want an auction house won't even consider a compromise, I will join the opposition against you.

You don't seriously believe that ZOS would allow people to list any amount of junk in an AH, this would as well be limited and there would be a fee to pay as well - and maybe they let you even buy those slots like they did with everything what increases capacity. In the end you might be worse off than with joining a trading guild. I really don't understand what your issue is with a trading guild - have you even tried it and not just in a major trading hub?

ZOS does already not want to give us a furniture bag, even we would be willing to pay for it, because they say those are too many items. Storage and database performance seems to be a major issue for ZOS - and you think they let everyone list any amount of junk in an AH - good luck with that.

To me the trading guilds are a nice activity which gives me a new purpose to care for in this game. But I don't need it, neither this nor an AH, I lived quite well without to sell anything in a guild before for years - but I would miss the activity to think about what my customers want in a certain location and test it out, and it is a really nice source of income as well - this would all be gone with an AH. Despite the risk involved with an AH, especially because ZOS is really bad with fighting bots.

But I understand that console players would like an info tool to search for stuff - it has some risks as well, but they are currently worse off than PC players and this would really help them.

Btw: people leaving this or any game for another one is something totally normal - and has nothing to do with an AH. Furthermore their real lives are changing - once they made their degree and start a career and a family other things get into their focus - gaming is then no longer the main thing in their lives - and their spouses would not be happy if they would continue like when they were single. Life just goes on.

idk · July 2020

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

colossalvoids wrote: »

barney2525 wrote: »

ItsJustHashtag wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one,

I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.

In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.

I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.

Imma say it, if your friends left the game and blamed not having an auction house then they never really wanted to be apart of this game anyway. Of all the reasons to leave ESO this is literally at the bottom of the list.

The Denial of the ability to make gold in this game, because you are Denied the right to sell your stuff, and you say this is bottom of the barrel?

You have a very weird opinion. Fortunately, that's all it is. Opinion.

IMHO

Do you really think that players who can't open guild finder tab or just refusing to participate because "my x game had another system" or "I'm a lone wolf woof" are denied? That's pretty rich. People are recruiting 24/7 and that's purely on them.

^ Not only is this true, but it's extremely easy to get into a casual trading guild in ESO.

But some players would rather use that time instead to complain in the forums ...

I have been in the same trading guild for about five years now and have never had to pay anything. We are in a good city that used to be a very busy hub but still does very well.

idk · July 2020

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Calling it a lie does not make it a lie. I seriously doubt many players, if any, have actually quit due to the choice of the trading system. Zos has no reason to worry as the player base has been consistently growing. Steam indicates this as well as Zos' need to increase server capacity for both PC servers last year due to the growth of the player base.

Seems to not be an issue by any means.

It is a lie, as you are almost certainly incorrect and you know you are.

As I already said earlier, when I leave this game, this will be a fairly major deciding factor in my leaving.

It is not a lie and your comment here proves it. You are still here despite not liking the trading system. That means when you do decide to leave there are other reasons for your departure. Thanks.

PizzaCat82 · July 2020

The people complaining are in the same trading guilds you guys are. Imagine being able to trade and complain in a forum at the same time!

Anotherone773 · July 2020

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one,

I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.

In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.

I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.

I would consider leaving if the game ADDED an auction house.

The game basically uses free market capitalism and it works.

[Quoted post was removed]

Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader? Literally two different subjects. That is like saying that you need to grind battlegrounds so you can run trials. I only craft my own stuff and almost all of that is furniture . Ive never had to craft to be in a guild to sell my stuff. In fact almost every trade guild i have been in has been very hands off. Some you can go 2 or 3 weeks or more and not even list an item and these are guilds in one of the top 10 trade hubs, not that guy out at First Watch in the north end of Auridon.

I feel like a lot of people dont bother to learn how this system works but just want to criticize it because its not a lazy AH they dont have to put any more effort into than vendoring an item.

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

This whole "tying trading to a guild" design concept is bunk. It screws over literally anyone who doesn't want to be a full time trader. The only way to actually sell anything is to join a trading guild, but joining a trading guild is not really viable for anyone who isn't devoting their time to crafting to keep a full inventory up and running to pay the guild dues for. So instead of being able to make a little bit of extra cash with some excess loot tossed up on a vendor, we instead have to waste it by decon'ing it for more mats that we don't really need anyways because we aren't full time crafting.

You really have put zero effort into the whole trade guild concept and decided based on either very limited experience or hearsay from people who have no clue what they are talking about.

There are some weeks when i am to busy to play that i dont list 10 items between all of my trade guilds. I sell recipes and prints in some guilds that sell for 3 times the vendor price. Go look up what 3 times the vendor price is on " Recipe: Roast Pig" and "Pattern: Khajiit Banner, Claw". Not a lot of profit off these things especially when i am selling "Blueprint: Solitude Desk, Ornate" for 6 figures but i still use them as filler and they do sell.

If you do a bit of work and not looking for a top spot its pretty easy to find a guild to sell stuff in that has no requirements. Then if you want to expand your horizons there are guilds that have low requirements, medium requirements, and high requirements. The high requirement guilds are just fleecing you though. You can find low and medium requirement guilds in any trade hub and most will have a no requirement guild that operates off people who like to play raffles and those who sell a lot of big ticket items.

I think if you actually tried a bit to get in a trade guild, you would not have such a problem with it.

"Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader?"

Because the only way to sell your gear as a crafter is to join a trade guild that has a vendor. And in order to be in a trade guild, you either have to be able to sell enough stuff to pay your dues, or meet minimum sales goals if you want to be in a guild that has any kind of quality trader.

I basically have to take a virtual retail job.

Not what I'm trying to do when I play a video game.

I want to be able to sell my crafted gear and looted items independently. I don't want to be a full blown crafter, and don't need the benefit of a guild trader. I just want to toss some stuff up on an auction house and get a little bit of credit for items without letting them go to waste. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

But ZOS has decided to tie the entire economy and commerce into guilds, and that's completely out of line. The fact is - I shouldn't *HAVE* to get into a trade guild just to sell some loose pieces of gear or loot here or there. I should be able to put it up on a centralized trader, and leave the trade guilds and guild traders for people who want to be more devoted to that and want to put in a greater investment for greater rewards.

Trust me - no trade guild worth a crap is going to want to take me in just so I have a place to sell the occasional piece of Mother's Sorrow or Plague Doctor's that I come across in random adventures.

Traders are not the doomday scenario you are making them out to be. Like you really are turning molehills into mountains and then actin like they are covered in 3 feet of snow and you have two broken legs all to make the point you prefer a central AH. Except no one is going to take that seriously because your arguments arent logical arguments. There are solutions to every "problem" you give, just not the solution you want of "central AH"

Everything you just said also applies to the anti-AH rhetoric.

The economy isnt going to collapse because I have a public trade to sell some spare pieces of gear

Actually it is a fact that central AHs collapses player economies in game. The constant penny war and need to quickly sell on a short term AH drives prices down quickly. AH are extremely easy to do price manipulation on. So you are left with a trade system that has to extremes in it. The price manipulator and the bargain basement that has a few useless trinkets some noob threw on there but no manipulator( or anyone else) is interested in.

Meanwhile the localized trade system in Eve online has being going strong since 2004. The only governing by devs is tweaks to the overall supply and demand of materials to make sure there are no bottlenecks in the economy since almost everything in the game is player built. The economy in Eve works and looks like a real world economy. That is after 16 years ran by players. The economy of ESO has been going for 6 years and it is still healthy. A central AH economy cant go 16 months after launch before its in the toilet.

BigBragg · July 2020

want
[wänt, wônt]
VERB
have a desire to possess or do (something); wish for.

versus

need
[nēd]
VERB
require (something) because it is essential.

Pink_Pixie · July 2020

Lower prices on items in not such a bad thing, and competition is always something that will happen with any trading system. Which we currently have, yet it's all in the hands of numerous trade guilds. Allowing others to trade, that is not in a guild offers much more for newer players. As lower prices, will help newer players enjoy the game more, instead of struggling to get the gear/items they need and would like.

In the end it's all pixel gold and items, which the player base are selling. However an economy that is for the select few tends to drive prices up. And cuts out those that do not have the income in game to purchase said items. Hence making it difficult for newer players to get into the game, as it's terribly confusing.

Having to join a guild, pay a set amount a week, go through numerous load screens. Stare at load screens, and last but not least, finding the item/s not at the location the external source is telling you. If it was all central, it'd be much much more user friendly. And being user friendly is actually something that would help the game in general.

Rarer items will still keep their hefty price tag, and the more common items will no doubt drop in price. I just sense that a lot of people are against a central area, as it'll cut into their profits, and of course, not everyone likes competition.

But, I suspect a better way to do it, is limit slots to none ESO+ players to less items they can post. And more to the ESO+ players, which would help the game in a financial sense.

ZaroktheImmortal · July 2020

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

See, you don't have a global trade system in the real world as well and guess what you don't scrap off your legs by having to walk too much and for a too long time to get what you want.

The BIG difference is that if I go to the local supermarket for bread and cheese I KNOW THEY SELL IT.
I don' t have to try out 50 other shops.

If I want furniture I go to another shop. I can even call to ask if they have stock and reserve one for me.
So I KNOW THEY SELL IT.

Otherwise I can also FIND stuff and shop and compare prices from behind my PC.
Even order stuff without moving.

Please give me that in ESO.

PS I didn't say anything about lowest prices. My big issue is being able to find anything at all (beyond the basic stuff).
Honesly I don' t care bout paying 5000 gold more or less for that staff I want or that specific Redoran couch or whatever.
*

the local supermarket is selling it because you buy locally - he wouldn't offer it, if you would do the same like in game, going for the cheapest available somewhere.

You would find offers if you would be willing to pay a decent price - traders have to utilize their slots with those things which make them good money, they cannot offer something, what you might want but which doesn't make them enough money or is hard to sell.

If you want something really specific you cannot expect to get it everywhere - and you might not find it in the market at all, because no one is offering at the time being - if you look for rare items you will have to get a little creative - and eventually even talk to people - they might be able to help you or know someone who could help you - a trading guild for example is one of the places where people actually might have this information - but who doesn't want to join a trading guild?

Well let's see people who don't want to pay dues constantly for the ability to trade maybe? People who want to use their guild slots for something other than OMG TRADER

I am in a “no dues” trading guild. All they require is that you log in at least once every week. (Or at least let them know if you are going on vacation.)

My housing guild has a trader, no dues, and I am pretty sure you don’t even have to own a house.
If my housing guild can do this, I am sure there are pvp guilds (etc) out there that you can join, have no dues, and have a trader.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one,

I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.

In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.

I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.

I would consider leaving if the game ADDED an auction house.

The game basically uses free market capitalism and it works.

[Quoted post was removed]

Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader? Literally two different subjects. That is like saying that you need to grind battlegrounds so you can run trials. I only craft my own stuff and almost all of that is furniture . Ive never had to craft to be in a guild to sell my stuff. In fact almost every trade guild i have been in has been very hands off. Some you can go 2 or 3 weeks or more and not even list an item and these are guilds in one of the top 10 trade hubs, not that guy out at First Watch in the north end of Auridon.

I feel like a lot of people dont bother to learn how this system works but just want to criticize it because its not a lazy AH they dont have to put any more effort into than vendoring an item.

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

This whole "tying trading to a guild" design concept is bunk. It screws over literally anyone who doesn't want to be a full time trader. The only way to actually sell anything is to join a trading guild, but joining a trading guild is not really viable for anyone who isn't devoting their time to crafting to keep a full inventory up and running to pay the guild dues for. So instead of being able to make a little bit of extra cash with some excess loot tossed up on a vendor, we instead have to waste it by decon'ing it for more mats that we don't really need anyways because we aren't full time crafting.

You really have put zero effort into the whole trade guild concept and decided based on either very limited experience or hearsay from people who have no clue what they are talking about.

There are some weeks when i am to busy to play that i dont list 10 items between all of my trade guilds. I sell recipes and prints in some guilds that sell for 3 times the vendor price. Go look up what 3 times the vendor price is on " Recipe: Roast Pig" and "Pattern: Khajiit Banner, Claw". Not a lot of profit off these things especially when i am selling "Blueprint: Solitude Desk, Ornate" for 6 figures but i still use them as filler and they do sell.

If you do a bit of work and not looking for a top spot its pretty easy to find a guild to sell stuff in that has no requirements. Then if you want to expand your horizons there are guilds that have low requirements, medium requirements, and high requirements. The high requirement guilds are just fleecing you though. You can find low and medium requirement guilds in any trade hub and most will have a no requirement guild that operates off people who like to play raffles and those who sell a lot of big ticket items.

I think if you actually tried a bit to get in a trade guild, you would not have such a problem with it.

"Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader?"

Because the only way to sell your gear as a crafter is to join a trade guild that has a vendor. And in order to be in a trade guild, you either have to be able to sell enough stuff to pay your dues, or meet minimum sales goals if you want to be in a guild that has any kind of quality trader.

I basically have to take a virtual retail job.

Not what I'm trying to do when I play a video game.

I want to be able to sell my crafted gear and looted items independently. I don't want to be a full blown crafter, and don't need the benefit of a guild trader. I just want to toss some stuff up on an auction house and get a little bit of credit for items without letting them go to waste. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

But ZOS has decided to tie the entire economy and commerce into guilds, and that's completely out of line. The fact is - I shouldn't *HAVE* to get into a trade guild just to sell some loose pieces of gear or loot here or there. I should be able to put it up on a centralized trader, and leave the trade guilds and guild traders for people who want to be more devoted to that and want to put in a greater investment for greater rewards.

Trust me - no trade guild worth a crap is going to want to take me in just so I have a place to sell the occasional piece of Mother's Sorrow or Plague Doctor's that I come across in random adventures.

Traders are not the doomday scenario you are making them out to be. Like you really are turning molehills into mountains and then actin like they are covered in 3 feet of snow and you have two broken legs all to make the point you prefer a central AH. Except no one is going to take that seriously because your arguments arent logical arguments. There are solutions to every "problem" you give, just not the solution you want of "central AH"

Everything you just said also applies to the anti-AH rhetoric.

The economy isnt going to collapse because I have a public trade to sell some spare pieces of gear

Actually it is a fact that central AHs collapses player economies in game. The constant penny war and need to quickly sell on a short term AH drives prices down quickly. AH are extremely easy to do price manipulation on. So you are left with a trade system that has to extremes in it. The price manipulator and the bargain basement that has a few useless trinkets some noob threw on there but no manipulator( or anyone else) is interested in.

Meanwhile the localized trade system in Eve online has being going strong since 2004. The only governing by devs is tweaks to the overall supply and demand of materials to make sure there are no bottlenecks in the economy since almost everything in the game is player built. The economy in Eve works and looks like a real world economy. That is after 16 years ran by players. The economy of ESO has been going for 6 years and it is still healthy. A central AH economy cant go 16 months after launch before its in the toilet.

So then do away with guild traders and let anyone use location traders but only to a specific amount of how much they can put up for trade(either done by in general amount or by location). How does the guilds improve on that?

Hotdog_23 · July 2020

Lysette wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

PS, I find it fun people think a change would crash the current economy. Where is history did a free economy actually crash the economy.

you actually believe in free economy, whilst it is a battle field with hefty market pvp in the real world - I suggest to read up on Intel/AMD, MIcrosoft/Apple and others - there is no free market, it is a market controlled by global players - free market is a term politicians use, but not what reality is like.

It would have crashed a couple of times already - but government had to bail them out, because otherwise it would have ended in disaster. Those global players are too big to let them fail - and in the end who has to pay for it - tax payers - and who doesn't pay taxes?

A small majority has always controlled the large majority when it comes to money.

Yes, a free market is not what we have now, and it is just a coined term, but a free more open market is better than a closed walled off market. Their will always be government policy and control measures the same way even with a global auction house would have built in control measures for ESO.

Be safe and have fun

Please, try the guild system first - and not in a major trade hub guild - there are plenty of slots available with quite good traders, a relaxed atmosphere in the guild and lots of helpful, friendly people - that is what my 3 guilds are like and I made quite some money even with my casual game play already and I have a pretty steady additional source of income from it.

It is by far better than you think - just avoid guilds, which are for experienced traders with lots of high value wares to sell. If you jump into the shark tank, you have to be a shark among sharks, otherwise you will be prey - so choose a local guild in a medium location and you might find it a really good system - just give it an honest try.

btw - you know what is funny .- first you argue with a free economy, and now you are already asking for control measures in an auction house? - so you are yourself not certain about the free market you are advertising and afraid of it - or why do you ask for such measures?

And governments trying to control global players is even more funny - these politicians are owned by them, controlled by lobbyismus.

Lysette wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Hotdog_23 wrote: »

PS, I find it fun people think a change would crash the current economy. Where is history did a free economy actually crash the economy.

you actually believe in free economy, whilst it is a battle field with hefty market pvp in the real world - I suggest to read up on Intel/AMD, MIcrosoft/Apple and others - there is no free market, it is a market controlled by global players - free market is a term politicians use, but not what reality is like.

It would have crashed a couple of times already - but government had to bail them out, because otherwise it would have ended in disaster. Those global players are too big to let them fail - and in the end who has to pay for it - tax payers - and who doesn't pay taxes?

A small majority has always controlled the large majority when it comes to money.

Yes, a free market is not what we have now, and it is just a coined term, but a free more open market is better than a closed walled off market. Their will always be government policy and control measures the same way even with a global auction house would have built in control measures for ESO.

Be safe and have fun

Please, try the guild system first - and not in a major trade hub guild - there are plenty of slots available with quite good traders, a relaxed atmosphere in the guild and lots of helpful, friendly people - that is what my 3 guilds are like and I made quite some money even with my casual game play already and I have a pretty steady additional source of income from it.

It is by far better than you think - just avoid guilds, which are for experienced traders with lots of high value wares to sell. If you jump into the shark tank, you have to be a shark among sharks, otherwise you will be prey - so choose a local guild in a medium location and you might find it a really good system - just give it an honest try.

btw - you know what is funny .- first you argue with a free economy, and now you are already asking for control measures in an auction house? - so you are yourself not certain about the free market you are advertising and afraid of it - or why do you ask for such measures?

And governments trying to control global players is even more funny - these politicians are owned by them, controlled by lobbyismus.

I am already in one major trading guild that is always in a capital city and another is stationed in either a capital city or Vivic or Alinor only each week. Being in a guild and selling is not the problem. Ease of use in the current system is the issue.

The idea of a global auction house I like is to make information more open and easier to see and use for everyone. Our current base system is lacking quite a bit. Which is why add-ons are made to improve the system. Since no add-ons are being done for consoles and we are unable to transfer and taking all our hard time, achievement and items with us. We just ask for ZOS to improve the system.

Curious what add-ons do you use to change the base system Lysette

Be safe and have fun

None, I found about 1.5 years ago that add-ons are making my experience in ESO worse and I stripped my game from all add-ons - including mini-map, what was the worst, because it made my eyes glue to it instead to look at the landscape and navigate by landmarks instead. Then I had sky shards add-on, luckily enough I have not done a lot of those shards using this add-on, any sense of exploration was lost using it. I also got rid of any combat information which gave me numbers and even worse advice when to dodge and block and what not - this all didn't give me the feel of actually playing the game but being played by my add-ons - and when an update disabled all of my add-ons, I decided to keep it that way and not use add-ons.

This is as well why I don't use any trading tools, which aren't in the base game - and there is one in the base game, namely the activities panel of the guild UI, where I can see what was sold to whom by whom at what price and quantity - that is exactly the local information I need and this is all what I use and I'll keep it that way, I'm done with add-ons.

Thanks for the reply. You know I would probably be the same way watching the add-on and not the action so in the end I would probably turn most of them off too but who knows. Still would like to transfer if I could take my stuff and progress.

Be safe and have fun😊

Lysette · July 2020

Pink_Pixie wrote: »

Lower prices on items in not such a bad thing, and competition is always something that will happen with any trading system. Which we currently have, yet it's all in the hands of numerous trade guilds. Allowing others to trade, that is not in a guild offers much more for newer players. As lower prices, will help newer players enjoy the game more, instead of struggling to get the gear/items they need and would like.

Seen from a buyer perspective - but that stuff you want for a low price has to come from somewhere - it is normally farmed by other players, who won't farm it anymore - or not farm and sell it - if the price is too low to be worth the hassle. Once it starts to disappear from the market, it's price will go up again and it would stabilize when supply and demand are somewhat equal.

Demand as in not just wanting to buy something, but actually being able to - and with newbies this might just not be the case, they might want stuff, but might not have the money to actually buy it - which effectively means demand in this sense might be low. And at the same time a lot of newbies might want to sell their stuff in order to get some money - but not the same stuff, which they desire but are unable to buy, but other stuff, which might be in the same low demand situation, because higher level player do not need this stuff - those who would have the money to create demand, but they don't need it.

And this is the problem basically - the leveled system of materials creates this situation, that there is not much low level material on the market and if at prices where newbies might struggle with. They out-level these materials very quickly as well which is even more decreasing the demand - high possible supply, no viable demand - as a result not much of this stuff is on the market, because it isn't viable to sell it - all but newbies are stocked with this stuff, it piles up in our crafting bags, but it is not viable to offer it, it is not even worth the time it requires to stack split and list it for what it's worth, nearly nothing.

So supply and demand stabilize where they are somewhat equal - near zero. Nearly no one wants to offer it because nearly no one who would want it, can afford it in viable quantities - that is why there is not much of these mats on the market. And an AH wouldn't change much here, because due to material levels the demand cannot go up with the supply - prices would go down and it wouldn't be worth the hassle for newbies to offer it and higher level players won't do it either - so in the end it is not beneficial for newbies in the way you expect it to be.

tl;dr - it doesn't work like in other games, because materials and stuff is level gated in ESO - and those being able to create the demand, do not need this stuff, and those who would want it, cannot afford it - result - supply and demand stabilizes near zero - no supply, no demand.

The reason why it works in EVE is, that exactly that stuff what newbies can farm is in extremely high demand by every industrialist - Tritanium and Scordite is what newbies farm and these ores contain those minerals which are in everything in large quanities - that is why it works in EVE - stuff is not level gated and that what newbies can farm is in high demand.

Tigerseye · July 2020

idk wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Calling it a lie does not make it a lie. I seriously doubt many players, if any, have actually quit due to the choice of the trading system. Zos has no reason to worry as the player base has been consistently growing. Steam indicates this as well as Zos' need to increase server capacity for both PC servers last year due to the growth of the player base.

Seems to not be an issue by any means.

It is a lie, as you are almost certainly incorrect and you know you are.

As I already said earlier, when I leave this game, this will be a fairly major deciding factor in my leaving.

It is not a lie and your comment here proves it. You are still here despite not liking the trading system. That means when you do decide to leave there are other reasons for your departure. Thanks.

No, it will not.

It will mean that a collection of problems, including this one, have come to a head and have caused me to have finally had enough.

[snip]

Look, I know the current trading system suits a handful of regulars, on here, very much.

So, they are prepared to virtually fight to the death to preserve it, with absolutely no consideration of possible modifications, ever.

However, that doesn't mean that you get to just make stuff up, without any basis in fact, without being challenged on it.

[edited for baiting]

aenax · July 2020

None, I found about 1.5 years ago that add-ons are making my experience in ESO worse and I stripped my game from all add-ons - including mini-map, what was the worst, because it made my eyes glue to it instead to look at the landscape and navigate by landmarks instead. Then I had sky shards add-on, luckily enough I have not done a lot of those shards using this add-on, any sense of exploration was lost using it. I also got rid of any combat information which gave me numbers and even worse advice when to dodge and block and what not - this all didn't give me the feel of actually playing the game but being played by my add-ons - and when an update disabled all of my add-ons, I decided to keep it that way and not use add-ons.

This is as well why I don't use any trading tools, which aren't in the base game - and there is one in the base game, namely the activities panel of the guild UI, where I can see what was sold to whom by whom at what price and quantity - that is exactly the local information I need and this is all what I use and I'll keep it that way, I'm done with add-ons.[/quote]

I turned combat feeback in LUI and there is so many number flying that it is just useless and i shall turn it off soon. I m thinking about removing everything but may be tamriel trade center.

Lysette wrote: »

Pink_Pixie wrote: »

Lower prices on items in not such a bad thing, and competition is always something that will happen with any trading system. Which we currently have, yet it's all in the hands of numerous trade guilds. Allowing others to trade, that is not in a guild offers much more for newer players. As lower prices, will help newer players enjoy the game more, instead of struggling to get the gear/items they need and would like.

Seen from a buyer perspective - but that stuff you want for a low price has to come from somewhere - it is normally farmed by other players, who won't farm it anymore - or not farm and sell it - if the price is too low to be worth the hassle. Once it starts to disappear from the market, it's price will go up again and it would stabilize when supply and demand are somewhat equal.

Demand as in not just wanting to buy something, but actually being able to - and with newbies this might just not be the case, they might want stuff, but might not have the money to actually buy it - which effectively means demand in this sense might be low. And at the same time a lot of newbies might want to sell their stuff in order to get some money - but not the same stuff, which they desire but are unable to buy, but other stuff, which might be in the same low demand situation, because higher level player do not need this stuff - those who would have the money to create demand, but they don't need it.

And this is the problem basically - the leveled system of materials creates this situation, that there is not much low level material on the market and if at prices where newbies might struggle with. They out-level these materials very quickly as well which is even more decreasing the demand - high possible supply, no viable demand - as a result not much of this stuff is on the market, because it isn't viable to sell it - all but newbies are stocked with this stuff, it piles up in our crafting bags, but it is not viable to offer it, it is not even worth the time it requires to stack split and list it for what it's worth, nearly nothing.

So supply and demand stabilize where they are somewhat equal - near zero. Nearly no one wants to offer it because nearly no one who would want it, can afford it in viable quantities - that is why there is not much of these mats on the market. And an AH wouldn't change much here, because due to material levels the demand cannot go up with the supply - prices would go down and it wouldn't be worth the hassle for newbies to offer it and higher level players won't do it either - so in the end it is not beneficial for newbies in the way you expect it to be.

tl;dr - it doesn't work like in other games, because materials and stuff is level gated in ESO - and those being able to create the demand, do not need this stuff, and those who would want it, cannot afford it - result - supply and demand stabilizes near zero - no supply, no demand.

The reason why it works in EVE is, that exactly that stuff what newbies can farm is in extremely high demand by every industrialist - Tritanium and Scordite is what newbies farm and these ores contain those minerals which are in everything in large quanities - that is why it works in EVE - stuff is not level gated and that what newbies can farm is in high demand.

I m quite sur that a marelt for l level 40 tier could exist, to harvest youjust need to remove some point from some of your crafting profession (this won t work for rune). The ressources you harvest are split (quite equitably) between your adventure tier and tor crafting tier.

Soo people would may be specialize in selling level 40 set with a traning gear trait and so on.

Lysette · July 2020

Well, if we would really want to play ESO in an AH like manner we definitely could - if I had friends in ESO like in EVE - as in trustworthy and capable - I would create a guild, gather 50+ people, put 6 of my most talented traders in charge of running the guild trades, let each of them join 4 of the major trade hub guilds (each of them different ones of course) and we would cover 24 major traders in ESO for like 240k/week, trading in 720 slots - which would be an average of 14-15 slots per member and start an EVE-like market operation - with access to all actual trade data via the guild activities UI, not listed stuff, but actual trades - we would see all 24 locations in parallel, see who buys what in which quantities and who sells what in which quantities - we could select the top guys in the market, because we would know them this way, making arrangements with them and then manipulate the market in any way we want. Just be happy that we don't use EVE like operations here.

And this with no running around - 6 guild traders would be able to run this from any NPC bank in the game. Total market transparency of major hubs and full accessibility to it at the same time without having to move at all.

Not to say that this could easily be expanded to medium hubs as well, with a couple of more talented guildies running these trades as well - and as it is all operated from a single guild, we could shift stuff around like we want in an instant basically, choke, starve, flood the market, whatever we would like to do.

Then it is like with an AH, but for what - ESO's market is tiny and there is pretty much nothing to spend gold on.

BlueRaven · July 2020

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

See, you don't have a global trade system in the real world as well and guess what you don't scrap off your legs by having to walk too much and for a too long time to get what you want.

The BIG difference is that if I go to the local supermarket for bread and cheese I KNOW THEY SELL IT.
I don' t have to try out 50 other shops.

If I want furniture I go to another shop. I can even call to ask if they have stock and reserve one for me.
So I KNOW THEY SELL IT.

Otherwise I can also FIND stuff and shop and compare prices from behind my PC.
Even order stuff without moving.

Please give me that in ESO.

PS I didn't say anything about lowest prices. My big issue is being able to find anything at all (beyond the basic stuff).
Honesly I don' t care bout paying 5000 gold more or less for that staff I want or that specific Redoran couch or whatever.
*

the local supermarket is selling it because you buy locally - he wouldn't offer it, if you would do the same like in game, going for the cheapest available somewhere.

You would find offers if you would be willing to pay a decent price - traders have to utilize their slots with those things which make them good money, they cannot offer something, what you might want but which doesn't make them enough money or is hard to sell.

If you want something really specific you cannot expect to get it everywhere - and you might not find it in the market at all, because no one is offering at the time being - if you look for rare items you will have to get a little creative - and eventually even talk to people - they might be able to help you or know someone who could help you - a trading guild for example is one of the places where people actually might have this information - but who doesn't want to join a trading guild?

Well let's see people who don't want to pay dues constantly for the ability to trade maybe? People who want to use their guild slots for something other than OMG TRADER

I am in a “no dues” trading guild. All they require is that you log in at least once every week. (Or at least let them know if you are going on vacation.)

My housing guild has a trader, no dues, and I am pretty sure you don’t even have to own a house.
If my housing guild can do this, I am sure there are pvp guilds (etc) out there that you can join, have no dues, and have a trader.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one,

I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.

In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.

I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.

I would consider leaving if the game ADDED an auction house.

The game basically uses free market capitalism and it works.

[Quoted post was removed]

Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader? Literally two different subjects. That is like saying that you need to grind battlegrounds so you can run trials. I only craft my own stuff and almost all of that is furniture . Ive never had to craft to be in a guild to sell my stuff. In fact almost every trade guild i have been in has been very hands off. Some you can go 2 or 3 weeks or more and not even list an item and these are guilds in one of the top 10 trade hubs, not that guy out at First Watch in the north end of Auridon.

I feel like a lot of people dont bother to learn how this system works but just want to criticize it because its not a lazy AH they dont have to put any more effort into than vendoring an item.

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

This whole "tying trading to a guild" design concept is bunk. It screws over literally anyone who doesn't want to be a full time trader. The only way to actually sell anything is to join a trading guild, but joining a trading guild is not really viable for anyone who isn't devoting their time to crafting to keep a full inventory up and running to pay the guild dues for. So instead of being able to make a little bit of extra cash with some excess loot tossed up on a vendor, we instead have to waste it by decon'ing it for more mats that we don't really need anyways because we aren't full time crafting.

You really have put zero effort into the whole trade guild concept and decided based on either very limited experience or hearsay from people who have no clue what they are talking about.

There are some weeks when i am to busy to play that i dont list 10 items between all of my trade guilds. I sell recipes and prints in some guilds that sell for 3 times the vendor price. Go look up what 3 times the vendor price is on " Recipe: Roast Pig" and "Pattern: Khajiit Banner, Claw". Not a lot of profit off these things especially when i am selling "Blueprint: Solitude Desk, Ornate" for 6 figures but i still use them as filler and they do sell.

If you do a bit of work and not looking for a top spot its pretty easy to find a guild to sell stuff in that has no requirements. Then if you want to expand your horizons there are guilds that have low requirements, medium requirements, and high requirements. The high requirement guilds are just fleecing you though. You can find low and medium requirement guilds in any trade hub and most will have a no requirement guild that operates off people who like to play raffles and those who sell a lot of big ticket items.

I think if you actually tried a bit to get in a trade guild, you would not have such a problem with it.

"Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader?"

Because the only way to sell your gear as a crafter is to join a trade guild that has a vendor. And in order to be in a trade guild, you either have to be able to sell enough stuff to pay your dues, or meet minimum sales goals if you want to be in a guild that has any kind of quality trader.

I basically have to take a virtual retail job.

Not what I'm trying to do when I play a video game.

I want to be able to sell my crafted gear and looted items independently. I don't want to be a full blown crafter, and don't need the benefit of a guild trader. I just want to toss some stuff up on an auction house and get a little bit of credit for items without letting them go to waste. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

But ZOS has decided to tie the entire economy and commerce into guilds, and that's completely out of line. The fact is - I shouldn't *HAVE* to get into a trade guild just to sell some loose pieces of gear or loot here or there. I should be able to put it up on a centralized trader, and leave the trade guilds and guild traders for people who want to be more devoted to that and want to put in a greater investment for greater rewards.

Trust me - no trade guild worth a crap is going to want to take me in just so I have a place to sell the occasional piece of Mother's Sorrow or Plague Doctor's that I come across in random adventures.

Traders are not the doomday scenario you are making them out to be. Like you really are turning molehills into mountains and then actin like they are covered in 3 feet of snow and you have two broken legs all to make the point you prefer a central AH. Except no one is going to take that seriously because your arguments arent logical arguments. There are solutions to every "problem" you give, just not the solution you want of "central AH"

Everything you just said also applies to the anti-AH rhetoric.

The economy isnt going to collapse because I have a public trade to sell some spare pieces of gear

Actually it is a fact that central AHs collapses player economies in game. The constant penny war and need to quickly sell on a short term AH drives prices down quickly. AH are extremely easy to do price manipulation on. So you are left with a trade system that has to extremes in it. The price manipulator and the bargain basement that has a few useless trinkets some noob threw on there but no manipulator( or anyone else) is interested in.

Meanwhile the localized trade system in Eve online has being going strong since 2004. The only governing by devs is tweaks to the overall supply and demand of materials to make sure there are no bottlenecks in the economy since almost everything in the game is player built. The economy in Eve works and looks like a real world economy. That is after 16 years ran by players. The economy of ESO has been going for 6 years and it is still healthy. A central AH economy cant go 16 months after launch before its in the toilet.

So then do away with guild traders and let anyone use location traders but only to a specific amount of how much they can put up for trade(either done by in general amount or by location). How does the guilds improve on that?

The system is not broken. Why change it? And why would zos diminish the role of guilds?

We all have five guilds we can join per account. Join a casual guild of your preference that has a trader. I see ads for guilds all the time in zone chats boasting that the have a trader.

As an aside I find this whole conversation amusing as my casual social guild for older players decided to stop having a trader because so few players were using it. Most of the players had so many options in other guilds to post things for sale they did not need it.

Lysette · July 2020

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

BlueRaven wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Eifleber wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

See, you don't have a global trade system in the real world as well and guess what you don't scrap off your legs by having to walk too much and for a too long time to get what you want.

The BIG difference is that if I go to the local supermarket for bread and cheese I KNOW THEY SELL IT.
I don' t have to try out 50 other shops.

If I want furniture I go to another shop. I can even call to ask if they have stock and reserve one for me.
So I KNOW THEY SELL IT.

Otherwise I can also FIND stuff and shop and compare prices from behind my PC.
Even order stuff without moving.

Please give me that in ESO.

PS I didn't say anything about lowest prices. My big issue is being able to find anything at all (beyond the basic stuff).
Honesly I don' t care bout paying 5000 gold more or less for that staff I want or that specific Redoran couch or whatever.
*

the local supermarket is selling it because you buy locally - he wouldn't offer it, if you would do the same like in game, going for the cheapest available somewhere.

You would find offers if you would be willing to pay a decent price - traders have to utilize their slots with those things which make them good money, they cannot offer something, what you might want but which doesn't make them enough money or is hard to sell.

If you want something really specific you cannot expect to get it everywhere - and you might not find it in the market at all, because no one is offering at the time being - if you look for rare items you will have to get a little creative - and eventually even talk to people - they might be able to help you or know someone who could help you - a trading guild for example is one of the places where people actually might have this information - but who doesn't want to join a trading guild?

Well let's see people who don't want to pay dues constantly for the ability to trade maybe? People who want to use their guild slots for something other than OMG TRADER

I am in a “no dues” trading guild. All they require is that you log in at least once every week. (Or at least let them know if you are going on vacation.)

My housing guild has a trader, no dues, and I am pretty sure you don’t even have to own a house.
If my housing guild can do this, I am sure there are pvp guilds (etc) out there that you can join, have no dues, and have a trader.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Iccotak wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

idk wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one,

I stopped reading at this point as this is the worst reason for anything to be added to ESO. Especially since ESO is superior to any major game on the market today. Those that actually play this game agree with that. Also, the fact the game has done well all these years without a central auction house does demonstrate it is not direly needed.

In the end, the trading system has been serving the game just fine and no one will be leaving ESO because of the trading system. So there is no real reason for Zos to abandon their preferred design.

I literally have friends who have left this game solely because of the lack of an auction house.

I would consider leaving if the game ADDED an auction house.

The game basically uses free market capitalism and it works.

[Quoted post was removed]

Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader? Literally two different subjects. That is like saying that you need to grind battlegrounds so you can run trials. I only craft my own stuff and almost all of that is furniture . Ive never had to craft to be in a guild to sell my stuff. In fact almost every trade guild i have been in has been very hands off. Some you can go 2 or 3 weeks or more and not even list an item and these are guilds in one of the top 10 trade hubs, not that guy out at First Watch in the north end of Auridon.

I feel like a lot of people dont bother to learn how this system works but just want to criticize it because its not a lazy AH they dont have to put any more effort into than vendoring an item.

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

This whole "tying trading to a guild" design concept is bunk. It screws over literally anyone who doesn't want to be a full time trader. The only way to actually sell anything is to join a trading guild, but joining a trading guild is not really viable for anyone who isn't devoting their time to crafting to keep a full inventory up and running to pay the guild dues for. So instead of being able to make a little bit of extra cash with some excess loot tossed up on a vendor, we instead have to waste it by decon'ing it for more mats that we don't really need anyways because we aren't full time crafting.

You really have put zero effort into the whole trade guild concept and decided based on either very limited experience or hearsay from people who have no clue what they are talking about.

There are some weeks when i am to busy to play that i dont list 10 items between all of my trade guilds. I sell recipes and prints in some guilds that sell for 3 times the vendor price. Go look up what 3 times the vendor price is on " Recipe: Roast Pig" and "Pattern: Khajiit Banner, Claw". Not a lot of profit off these things especially when i am selling "Blueprint: Solitude Desk, Ornate" for 6 figures but i still use them as filler and they do sell.

If you do a bit of work and not looking for a top spot its pretty easy to find a guild to sell stuff in that has no requirements. Then if you want to expand your horizons there are guilds that have low requirements, medium requirements, and high requirements. The high requirement guilds are just fleecing you though. You can find low and medium requirement guilds in any trade hub and most will have a no requirement guild that operates off people who like to play raffles and those who sell a lot of big ticket items.

I think if you actually tried a bit to get in a trade guild, you would not have such a problem with it.

"Why do you need to have a job as an in game crafter to sell stuff in a trader?"

Because the only way to sell your gear as a crafter is to join a trade guild that has a vendor. And in order to be in a trade guild, you either have to be able to sell enough stuff to pay your dues, or meet minimum sales goals if you want to be in a guild that has any kind of quality trader.

I basically have to take a virtual retail job.

Not what I'm trying to do when I play a video game.

I want to be able to sell my crafted gear and looted items independently. I don't want to be a full blown crafter, and don't need the benefit of a guild trader. I just want to toss some stuff up on an auction house and get a little bit of credit for items without letting them go to waste. That shouldn't be too much to ask.

But ZOS has decided to tie the entire economy and commerce into guilds, and that's completely out of line. The fact is - I shouldn't *HAVE* to get into a trade guild just to sell some loose pieces of gear or loot here or there. I should be able to put it up on a centralized trader, and leave the trade guilds and guild traders for people who want to be more devoted to that and want to put in a greater investment for greater rewards.

Trust me - no trade guild worth a crap is going to want to take me in just so I have a place to sell the occasional piece of Mother's Sorrow or Plague Doctor's that I come across in random adventures.

Traders are not the doomday scenario you are making them out to be. Like you really are turning molehills into mountains and then actin like they are covered in 3 feet of snow and you have two broken legs all to make the point you prefer a central AH. Except no one is going to take that seriously because your arguments arent logical arguments. There are solutions to every "problem" you give, just not the solution you want of "central AH"

Everything you just said also applies to the anti-AH rhetoric.

The economy isnt going to collapse because I have a public trade to sell some spare pieces of gear

Actually it is a fact that central AHs collapses player economies in game. The constant penny war and need to quickly sell on a short term AH drives prices down quickly. AH are extremely easy to do price manipulation on. So you are left with a trade system that has to extremes in it. The price manipulator and the bargain basement that has a few useless trinkets some noob threw on there but no manipulator( or anyone else) is interested in.

Meanwhile the localized trade system in Eve online has being going strong since 2004. The only governing by devs is tweaks to the overall supply and demand of materials to make sure there are no bottlenecks in the economy since almost everything in the game is player built. The economy in Eve works and looks like a real world economy. That is after 16 years ran by players. The economy of ESO has been going for 6 years and it is still healthy. A central AH economy cant go 16 months after launch before its in the toilet.

So then do away with guild traders and let anyone use location traders but only to a specific amount of how much they can put up for trade(either done by in general amount or by location). How does the guilds improve on that?

The system is not broken. Why change it? And why would zos diminish the role of guilds?

We all have five guilds we can join per account. Join a casual guild of your preference that has a trader. I see ads for guilds all the time in zone chats boasting that the have a trader.

As an aside I find this whole conversation amusing as my casual social guild for older players decided to stop having a trader because so few players were using it. Most of the players had so many options in other guilds to post things for sale they did not need it.

I have just a couple of millions gold and already see that this is the point, where any more of it doesn't make it any better, because there is nothing to spend it on - I hate gambling crates, so I cannot even buy those. I'm just trading to enjoy it, but even more gold, what to do with it actually - I have no interests in this game which would really cost serious money. So I can perfectly understand that your guild mates aren't interested to acquire even more gold - it's just a number in the end.

Lysette · July 2020

aenax wrote: »

Soo people would may be specialize in selling level 40 set with a traning gear trait and so on.

No one buys this - why would they?- one can buy cheap training gear piece by piece from the market and research it and at this level anyone can craft his own training gear - stuff like that doesn't sell. I buy stuff with traits I still need to research from my guild mates and once I have researched it I never again have to buy that from the market.

Stx · July 2020

I would love a central auction house. I very rarely buy things from traders and NEVER sell items because I am not going to join a guild just to do so.

There are however many players that enjoy the current system where they can up charge unaware players and make millions.

Lysette · July 2020

Stx wrote: »

I would love a central auction house. I very rarely buy things from traders and NEVER sell items because I am not going to join a guild just to do so.

There are however many players that enjoy the current system where they can up charge unaware players and make millions.

You know, I was for a long time unaware of how much valuable stuff I actually have, even I just play casually and had as well breaks from the game due to moving between continents in real life. I know well, that one can live quite comfortably without to ever sell something in a guild - done that for years. But I guess if you would try it and just unload what you have amassed, you might have a million gold wallet as well - there is so much stuff in your inventory, where you might be totally unaware, how valuable that actually is.

Give it a try, you don't have to stay in a trading guild - just to unload your inventory and bank - you might be surprised.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Lysette wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.

In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.

But if you're one of those low volume sellers, why should you be railroaded through a guild at all?

Just give me a public vendor I can toss some extra gear on to make a few coins.

I'm not trying to "win" Economy Scrolls Online. I just want to not let some of my overland loot go to waste and make a few coins in the process that might buy me some potions when I run low and need some for a trial run

you don't need a trader for stuff which no one wants to buy - and if you have something people actually want, then it has as well value and you can use the guild system - doesn't have to be one which high traffic, because you don't need the money right away and you have as well no cost or nearly none there. And guild shops work as well without a trader, among their members - if your stuff doesn't sell there, then you have one where people do not buy in general most likely - then join another one or consider why no one wants to buy your stuff - eventually it is just trash or of a level which is useless for other members. Trying to sell furniture in a pvp guild might as well turn out to be difficult, but it might sell well in a role play guild - where people might not even care about skills or levels, but they want a decent backdrop.

Lots of people want to buy furnishing mats and yet, there is often a shortage of them.

There is a limit to how much people can pay for them, simply because most furniture requires too many of them and there is only so much people are willing to pay for furniture.

This is why we need a more centralised warehouse system, to help people sell mats, without having to be a member of a guild, or use up their limited guild slots (even if they are).

Alternatively, we need a centralised auction house system, period.

I would prefer the compromise, but if people who don't want an auction house won't even consider a compromise, I will join the opposition against you.

You don't seriously believe that ZOS would allow people to list any amount of junk in an AH, this would as well be limited and there would be a fee to pay as well - and maybe they let you even buy those slots like they did with everything what increases capacity. In the end you might be worse off than with joining a trading guild. I really don't understand what your issue is with a trading guild - have you even tried it and not just in a major trading hub?

ZOS does already not want to give us a furniture bag, even we would be willing to pay for it, because they say those are too many items. Storage and database performance seems to be a major issue for ZOS - and you think they let everyone list any amount of junk in an AH - good luck with that.

To me the trading guilds are a nice activity which gives me a new purpose to care for in this game. But I don't need it, neither this nor an AH, I lived quite well without to sell anything in a guild before for years - but I would miss the activity to think about what my customers want in a certain location and test it out, and it is a really nice source of income as well - this would all be gone with an AH. Despite the risk involved with an AH, especially because ZOS is really bad with fighting bots.

But I understand that console players would like an info tool to search for stuff - it has some risks as well, but they are currently worse off than PC players and this would really help them.

Btw: people leaving this or any game for another one is something totally normal - and has nothing to do with an AH. Furthermore their real lives are changing - once they made their degree and start a career and a family other things get into their focus - gaming is then no longer the main thing in their lives - and their spouses would not be happy if they would continue like when they were single. Life just goes on.

"To me the trading guilds are a nice activity which gives me a new purpose to care for in this game."

Then YOU stay in the trader guilds! Nobody is suggesting not taking them away. At least I'm not. Giving a public vendor for players to try to sell stuff they don't need does NOT take away your ability to join a trading guild or 5, and invest heavily into the economic aspect of the game for greater reward.

However, trying to funnel ALL of the game's economy through guilds DOES prevent others from being able to even partake in the economy on even a basic level.

Everything you have suggested is further evidence to MY argument that I shouldn't HAVE to join a trader guild just to sell some loose items here and there. I did world boss / delve runs last night to farm a specific set. As is the nature of the beast, I picked up pieces for THREE different sets. I don't need those sets. Others might. They are some loose pieces that I'd like to sell for about 500 - 1000 gold. Nothing I should need to join a guild trader for. And I won't.

But there is no public vendor, so instead they have to sit in my inventory taking room, or get deconn'ed for mats.

Lysette · July 2020

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.

In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.

But if you're one of those low volume sellers, why should you be railroaded through a guild at all?

Just give me a public vendor I can toss some extra gear on to make a few coins.

I'm not trying to "win" Economy Scrolls Online. I just want to not let some of my overland loot go to waste and make a few coins in the process that might buy me some potions when I run low and need some for a trial run

you don't need a trader for stuff which no one wants to buy - and if you have something people actually want, then it has as well value and you can use the guild system - doesn't have to be one which high traffic, because you don't need the money right away and you have as well no cost or nearly none there. And guild shops work as well without a trader, among their members - if your stuff doesn't sell there, then you have one where people do not buy in general most likely - then join another one or consider why no one wants to buy your stuff - eventually it is just trash or of a level which is useless for other members. Trying to sell furniture in a pvp guild might as well turn out to be difficult, but it might sell well in a role play guild - where people might not even care about skills or levels, but they want a decent backdrop.

Lots of people want to buy furnishing mats and yet, there is often a shortage of them.

There is a limit to how much people can pay for them, simply because most furniture requires too many of them and there is only so much people are willing to pay for furniture.

This is why we need a more centralised warehouse system, to help people sell mats, without having to be a member of a guild, or use up their limited guild slots (even if they are).

Alternatively, we need a centralised auction house system, period.

I would prefer the compromise, but if people who don't want an auction house won't even consider a compromise, I will join the opposition against you.

You don't seriously believe that ZOS would allow people to list any amount of junk in an AH, this would as well be limited and there would be a fee to pay as well - and maybe they let you even buy those slots like they did with everything what increases capacity. In the end you might be worse off than with joining a trading guild. I really don't understand what your issue is with a trading guild - have you even tried it and not just in a major trading hub?

ZOS does already not want to give us a furniture bag, even we would be willing to pay for it, because they say those are too many items. Storage and database performance seems to be a major issue for ZOS - and you think they let everyone list any amount of junk in an AH - good luck with that.

To me the trading guilds are a nice activity which gives me a new purpose to care for in this game. But I don't need it, neither this nor an AH, I lived quite well without to sell anything in a guild before for years - but I would miss the activity to think about what my customers want in a certain location and test it out, and it is a really nice source of income as well - this would all be gone with an AH. Despite the risk involved with an AH, especially because ZOS is really bad with fighting bots.

But I understand that console players would like an info tool to search for stuff - it has some risks as well, but they are currently worse off than PC players and this would really help them.

Btw: people leaving this or any game for another one is something totally normal - and has nothing to do with an AH. Furthermore their real lives are changing - once they made their degree and start a career and a family other things get into their focus - gaming is then no longer the main thing in their lives - and their spouses would not be happy if they would continue like when they were single. Life just goes on.

"To me the trading guilds are a nice activity which gives me a new purpose to care for in this game."

Then YOU stay in the trader guilds! Nobody is suggesting not taking them away. At least I'm not. Giving a public vendor for players to try to sell stuff they don't need does NOT take away your ability to join a trading guild or 5, and invest heavily into the economic aspect of the game for greater reward.

However, trying to funnel ALL of the game's economy through guilds DOES prevent others from being able to even partake in the economy on even a basic level.

Everything you have suggested is further evidence to MY argument that I shouldn't HAVE to join a trader guild just to sell some loose items here and there. I did world boss / delve runs last night to farm a specific set. As is the nature of the beast, I picked up pieces for THREE different sets. I don't need those sets. Others might. They are some loose pieces that I'd like to sell for about 500 - 1000 gold. Nothing I should need to join a guild trader for. And I won't.

But there is no public vendor, so instead they have to sit in my inventory taking room, or get deconn'ed for mats.

[snip] it would be so easy, but you make it complicated by refusing to use what is there.

[edited for baiting]

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Lysette wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.

In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.

But if you're one of those low volume sellers, why should you be railroaded through a guild at all?

Just give me a public vendor I can toss some extra gear on to make a few coins.

I'm not trying to "win" Economy Scrolls Online. I just want to not let some of my overland loot go to waste and make a few coins in the process that might buy me some potions when I run low and need some for a trial run

you don't need a trader for stuff which no one wants to buy - and if you have something people actually want, then it has as well value and you can use the guild system - doesn't have to be one which high traffic, because you don't need the money right away and you have as well no cost or nearly none there. And guild shops work as well without a trader, among their members - if your stuff doesn't sell there, then you have one where people do not buy in general most likely - then join another one or consider why no one wants to buy your stuff - eventually it is just trash or of a level which is useless for other members. Trying to sell furniture in a pvp guild might as well turn out to be difficult, but it might sell well in a role play guild - where people might not even care about skills or levels, but they want a decent backdrop.

Lots of people want to buy furnishing mats and yet, there is often a shortage of them.

There is a limit to how much people can pay for them, simply because most furniture requires too many of them and there is only so much people are willing to pay for furniture.

This is why we need a more centralised warehouse system, to help people sell mats, without having to be a member of a guild, or use up their limited guild slots (even if they are).

Alternatively, we need a centralised auction house system, period.

I would prefer the compromise, but if people who don't want an auction house won't even consider a compromise, I will join the opposition against you.

You don't seriously believe that ZOS would allow people to list any amount of junk in an AH, this would as well be limited and there would be a fee to pay as well - and maybe they let you even buy those slots like they did with everything what increases capacity. In the end you might be worse off than with joining a trading guild. I really don't understand what your issue is with a trading guild - have you even tried it and not just in a major trading hub?

ZOS does already not want to give us a furniture bag, even we would be willing to pay for it, because they say those are too many items. Storage and database performance seems to be a major issue for ZOS - and you think they let everyone list any amount of junk in an AH - good luck with that.

To me the trading guilds are a nice activity which gives me a new purpose to care for in this game. But I don't need it, neither this nor an AH, I lived quite well without to sell anything in a guild before for years - but I would miss the activity to think about what my customers want in a certain location and test it out, and it is a really nice source of income as well - this would all be gone with an AH. Despite the risk involved with an AH, especially because ZOS is really bad with fighting bots.

But I understand that console players would like an info tool to search for stuff - it has some risks as well, but they are currently worse off than PC players and this would really help them.

Btw: people leaving this or any game for another one is something totally normal - and has nothing to do with an AH. Furthermore their real lives are changing - once they made their degree and start a career and a family other things get into their focus - gaming is then no longer the main thing in their lives - and their spouses would not be happy if they would continue like when they were single. Life just goes on.

"To me the trading guilds are a nice activity which gives me a new purpose to care for in this game."

Then YOU stay in the trader guilds! Nobody is suggesting not taking them away. At least I'm not. Giving a public vendor for players to try to sell stuff they don't need does NOT take away your ability to join a trading guild or 5, and invest heavily into the economic aspect of the game for greater reward.

However, trying to funnel ALL of the game's economy through guilds DOES prevent others from being able to even partake in the economy on even a basic level.

Everything you have suggested is further evidence to MY argument that I shouldn't HAVE to join a trader guild just to sell some loose items here and there. I did world boss / delve runs last night to farm a specific set. As is the nature of the beast, I picked up pieces for THREE different sets. I don't need those sets. Others might. They are some loose pieces that I'd like to sell for about 500 - 1000 gold. Nothing I should need to join a guild trader for. And I won't.

But there is no public vendor, so instead they have to sit in my inventory taking room, or get deconn'ed for mats.

[snip] it would be so easy, but you make it complicated by refusing to use what is there.

The system makes it needlessly more complicated for me, and I refuse to partake in a system that I disagree with on a fundamental level that makes my gaming experience worse. I will not join a trading guild just to sell the 3 spare Necropotence pieces I farmed last night when I should have a public trader available that I can toss them on to make some spare coin.

Lysette · July 2020

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.

In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.

But if you're one of those low volume sellers, why should you be railroaded through a guild at all?

Just give me a public vendor I can toss some extra gear on to make a few coins.

I'm not trying to "win" Economy Scrolls Online. I just want to not let some of my overland loot go to waste and make a few coins in the process that might buy me some potions when I run low and need some for a trial run

you don't need a trader for stuff which no one wants to buy - and if you have something people actually want, then it has as well value and you can use the guild system - doesn't have to be one which high traffic, because you don't need the money right away and you have as well no cost or nearly none there. And guild shops work as well without a trader, among their members - if your stuff doesn't sell there, then you have one where people do not buy in general most likely - then join another one or consider why no one wants to buy your stuff - eventually it is just trash or of a level which is useless for other members. Trying to sell furniture in a pvp guild might as well turn out to be difficult, but it might sell well in a role play guild - where people might not even care about skills or levels, but they want a decent backdrop.

Lots of people want to buy furnishing mats and yet, there is often a shortage of them.

There is a limit to how much people can pay for them, simply because most furniture requires too many of them and there is only so much people are willing to pay for furniture.

This is why we need a more centralised warehouse system, to help people sell mats, without having to be a member of a guild, or use up their limited guild slots (even if they are).

Alternatively, we need a centralised auction house system, period.

I would prefer the compromise, but if people who don't want an auction house won't even consider a compromise, I will join the opposition against you.

You don't seriously believe that ZOS would allow people to list any amount of junk in an AH, this would as well be limited and there would be a fee to pay as well - and maybe they let you even buy those slots like they did with everything what increases capacity. In the end you might be worse off than with joining a trading guild. I really don't understand what your issue is with a trading guild - have you even tried it and not just in a major trading hub?

ZOS does already not want to give us a furniture bag, even we would be willing to pay for it, because they say those are too many items. Storage and database performance seems to be a major issue for ZOS - and you think they let everyone list any amount of junk in an AH - good luck with that.

To me the trading guilds are a nice activity which gives me a new purpose to care for in this game. But I don't need it, neither this nor an AH, I lived quite well without to sell anything in a guild before for years - but I would miss the activity to think about what my customers want in a certain location and test it out, and it is a really nice source of income as well - this would all be gone with an AH. Despite the risk involved with an AH, especially because ZOS is really bad with fighting bots.

But I understand that console players would like an info tool to search for stuff - it has some risks as well, but they are currently worse off than PC players and this would really help them.

Btw: people leaving this or any game for another one is something totally normal - and has nothing to do with an AH. Furthermore their real lives are changing - once they made their degree and start a career and a family other things get into their focus - gaming is then no longer the main thing in their lives - and their spouses would not be happy if they would continue like when they were single. Life just goes on.

"To me the trading guilds are a nice activity which gives me a new purpose to care for in this game."

Then YOU stay in the trader guilds! Nobody is suggesting not taking them away. At least I'm not. Giving a public vendor for players to try to sell stuff they don't need does NOT take away your ability to join a trading guild or 5, and invest heavily into the economic aspect of the game for greater reward.

However, trying to funnel ALL of the game's economy through guilds DOES prevent others from being able to even partake in the economy on even a basic level.

Everything you have suggested is further evidence to MY argument that I shouldn't HAVE to join a trader guild just to sell some loose items here and there. I did world boss / delve runs last night to farm a specific set. As is the nature of the beast, I picked up pieces for THREE different sets. I don't need those sets. Others might. They are some loose pieces that I'd like to sell for about 500 - 1000 gold. Nothing I should need to join a guild trader for. And I won't.

But there is no public vendor, so instead they have to sit in my inventory taking room, or get deconn'ed for mats.

[snip] it would be so easy, but you make it complicated by refusing to use what is there.

The system makes it needlessly more complicated for me, and I refuse to partake in a system that I disagree with on a fundamental level that makes my gaming experience worse. I will not join a trading guild just to sell the 3 spare Necropotence pieces I farmed last night when I should have a public trader available that I can toss them on to make some spare coin.

That is the reason - you are against it on a fundamental level - maybe just because some people make a lot of money selling their stuff - you would as well, but you have this mindset what hinders you to be as happy as everyone else, who is using this system [snip]

[edited for baiting]

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Lysette wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Tigerseye wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I guess a lot who are against this trading system have either not tried it or chose the wrong guild. Wrong in the meaning of not considering what amount of items and item value you have to sell to stay in that guild. When a major trade hub guild expects you to sell 150k per week, that means you will have to offer items for 7.8 million gold within a year - if you are playing for longer than a year and don't have stuff for 7.8 million in stock, you are just plain wrong in such a guild.

In that case you should choose one, where you can keep up with the average demand of that guild - you don't need a major trade hub guild, if you have just a couple of tens of thousands gold worth to sell per week - let's say 30k/week - this is still 1.56 million gold worth in a year - if you haven't accumulated that value in a year playing, you are as well wrong there and need a more remote guild, which might cost you nothing at all, but which matches your offer volume much better - eventually even one that has a trader just once per month - then you have a volume which matches the cost of the trader much better.

But if you're one of those low volume sellers, why should you be railroaded through a guild at all?

Just give me a public vendor I can toss some extra gear on to make a few coins.

I'm not trying to "win" Economy Scrolls Online. I just want to not let some of my overland loot go to waste and make a few coins in the process that might buy me some potions when I run low and need some for a trial run

you don't need a trader for stuff which no one wants to buy - and if you have something people actually want, then it has as well value and you can use the guild system - doesn't have to be one which high traffic, because you don't need the money right away and you have as well no cost or nearly none there. And guild shops work as well without a trader, among their members - if your stuff doesn't sell there, then you have one where people do not buy in general most likely - then join another one or consider why no one wants to buy your stuff - eventually it is just trash or of a level which is useless for other members. Trying to sell furniture in a pvp guild might as well turn out to be difficult, but it might sell well in a role play guild - where people might not even care about skills or levels, but they want a decent backdrop.

Lots of people want to buy furnishing mats and yet, there is often a shortage of them.

There is a limit to how much people can pay for them, simply because most furniture requires too many of them and there is only so much people are willing to pay for furniture.

This is why we need a more centralised warehouse system, to help people sell mats, without having to be a member of a guild, or use up their limited guild slots (even if they are).

Alternatively, we need a centralised auction house system, period.

I would prefer the compromise, but if people who don't want an auction house won't even consider a compromise, I will join the opposition against you.

You don't seriously believe that ZOS would allow people to list any amount of junk in an AH, this would as well be limited and there would be a fee to pay as well - and maybe they let you even buy those slots like they did with everything what increases capacity. In the end you might be worse off than with joining a trading guild. I really don't understand what your issue is with a trading guild - have you even tried it and not just in a major trading hub?

ZOS does already not want to give us a furniture bag, even we would be willing to pay for it, because they say those are too many items. Storage and database performance seems to be a major issue for ZOS - and you think they let everyone list any amount of junk in an AH - good luck with that.

To me the trading guilds are a nice activity which gives me a new purpose to care for in this game. But I don't need it, neither this nor an AH, I lived quite well without to sell anything in a guild before for years - but I would miss the activity to think about what my customers want in a certain location and test it out, and it is a really nice source of income as well - this would all be gone with an AH. Despite the risk involved with an AH, especially because ZOS is really bad with fighting bots.

But I understand that console players would like an info tool to search for stuff - it has some risks as well, but they are currently worse off than PC players and this would really help them.

Btw: people leaving this or any game for another one is something totally normal - and has nothing to do with an AH. Furthermore their real lives are changing - once they made their degree and start a career and a family other things get into their focus - gaming is then no longer the main thing in their lives - and their spouses would not be happy if they would continue like when they were single. Life just goes on.

"To me the trading guilds are a nice activity which gives me a new purpose to care for in this game."

Then YOU stay in the trader guilds! Nobody is suggesting not taking them away. At least I'm not. Giving a public vendor for players to try to sell stuff they don't need does NOT take away your ability to join a trading guild or 5, and invest heavily into the economic aspect of the game for greater reward.

However, trying to funnel ALL of the game's economy through guilds DOES prevent others from being able to even partake in the economy on even a basic level.

Everything you have suggested is further evidence to MY argument that I shouldn't HAVE to join a trader guild just to sell some loose items here and there. I did world boss / delve runs last night to farm a specific set. As is the nature of the beast, I picked up pieces for THREE different sets. I don't need those sets. Others might. They are some loose pieces that I'd like to sell for about 500 - 1000 gold. Nothing I should need to join a guild trader for. And I won't.

But there is no public vendor, so instead they have to sit in my inventory taking room, or get deconn'ed for mats.

[snip] it would be so easy, but you make it complicated by refusing to use what is there.

The system makes it needlessly more complicated for me, and I refuse to partake in a system that I disagree with on a fundamental level that makes my gaming experience worse. I will not join a trading guild just to sell the 3 spare Necropotence pieces I farmed last night when I should have a public trader available that I can toss them on to make some spare coin.

That is the reason - you are against it on a fundamental level - maybe just because some people make a lot of money selling their stuff - you would as well, but you have this mindset what hinders you to be as happy as everyone else, who is using this system [snip]

[edited for baiting]

And a compromise does not take away your systems for playing the economy game and making a lot more money.

I don't want to make a lot of money, and I don't expect to get major returns from my low volume selling. I just want to make some extra coins to fund my potions and food buffs for my trial runs, and occasional skill / CP respecs.

You want to put in a bigger investment, and get bigger returns, and the guild system should be there as a tool for people who want to put in a heavier investment to get a bigger return.

A public trader should be available for people who don't want to put in the heavy investment but want to make some spare coins off the gear they loot.

Lysette · July 2020

But every guild with I guess at least 50 members has a guild shop - even if they have no NPC trader, there is a shop where you could offer it to other members - and if you really want just a small amount of money for it, this would be the place to do it. Not every guild has an NPC trader and if you just want to sell sets of this kind, other members could make use of what you acquired this way - so the opportunity is there.

I have no intention to make a lot of money in this game - I have already more than I need, I'm just trading to sell what I got and to free my occupied bank space from stuff which is just choking it. If it sells, fine, if not I will just delete it. I told our guild master from the very start, that I have not that much to sell, because I'm playing casually - but it is more than I expected.

amm7sb14_ESO · July 2020

Lysette wrote: »

But every guild with I guess at least 50 members has a guild shop - even if they have no NPC trader, there is a shop where you could offer it to other members - and if you really want just a small amount of money for it, this would be the place to do it. Not every guild has an NPC trader and if you just want to sell sets of this kind, other members could make use of what you acquired this way - so the opportunity is there.

And I'm limiting my potential selling base to 50 - 500 people tops, instead of allowing it to be accessible to anyone who might be able to use that gear, greatly decreasing my odds of selling anything. I haven't even been able to sell Mother's Sorrow at below market rate because my audience is so limited. That's being in multiple guilds.

There is 0 valid reason for funneling ALL ability to sell in this game through guilds.

Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.

Lysette · July 2020

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

But every guild with I guess at least 50 members has a guild shop - even if they have no NPC trader, there is a shop where you could offer it to other members - and if you really want just a small amount of money for it, this would be the place to do it. Not every guild has an NPC trader and if you just want to sell sets of this kind, other members could make use of what you acquired this way - so the opportunity is there.

And I'm limiting my potential selling base to 50 - 500 people tops, instead of allowing it to be accessible to anyone who might be able to use that gear, greatly decreasing my odds of selling anything. I haven't even been able to sell Mother's Sorrow at below market rate because my audience is so limited. That's being in multiple guilds.

There is 0 valid reason for funneling ALL ability to sell in this game through guilds.

Guilds should be there for high investment / high reward. Not for literally all trading and selling in the game.

I saw mother's Sorrow offered in zone chat quite often - guess it is simply pretty common currently and not that easy to sell therefore. But then again, I have no real knowledge about items like this, it is just an eventually naive guess of mine.