ESO direly need a central auction house ...

Lapin_Logic

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.

If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they

Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.

With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).

What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).

These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"

The current system enables "market flippers". Unless you refer to third party resources as a guide it's difficult to know what the average price for an item is. Many players (especially newer ones) end up selling their items beneath market value as a result. So players can run around and target those items then sell them back for significant profit. I know players who make their living on ESO doing this. In short: the current system is a market flipper's dream come true.

In a centralized and free market with a visible price history - the only way for a player to effectively "flip" the market to their advantage would be to monopolize the supply and then artificially raise prices. That would be difficult to pull off - especially long term - which is why I've rarely seen it done.

The only time I've ever seen central auction houses manipulated like that on a MMO was when packs of gold sellers could dominate spawn points for monsters that dropped rare items players had no other way to obtain. And that's not something I can see happening on this game.

Market flippers are not a bad thing by any means. The person who sells the item initially makes bank and the person who flips it makes bank. Market flipping is much more desirable than bot manipulation. Central ACs are very well suited for bot manipulation and the speed that they can operate is significantly more effective and efficient than any of us could come close to.

Flippers are a Cancer, you are ment to be buying an item so you can use it, not so you can make more gold to make more gold to make more gold while doing nothing, and at the expense of other players.

For example, have you ever wondered how you can buy BIS purple jewelry Cheaper than you can craft a Purple Seducer/way of the arena infused Ring?
The market has never Recoverd/Normalised from the price hikes of the systems first release so now a new player can't even craft beginner gear that isn't even that good (then they are with you in a PUG doing no damage)

dhboy123

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

Hey folks, we have removed several comments from this thread that were bashing and baiting. Please avoid insulting other players when you disagree with their posts. We welcome you to share your ideas and suggestion on what you would like to see changed in the game. When you disagree with someone's ideas you are welcome to share your contrasting views but please do not insult others when doing so. Remember they too are people who enjoy playing ESO and want to see the game be the best it can be, just like you.

I am always excited to see an ZOS post on these threads and then get disappointed once again when it's just a moderation post.

Can we please remove these posts from the sidebar? Surely the posts by ZOS employees should only be in terms of the thread and not random mod posts.

idk

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.

If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they

Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.

With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).

What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).

These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"

The current system enables "market flippers". Unless you refer to third party resources as a guide it's difficult to know what the average price for an item is. Many players (especially newer ones) end up selling their items beneath market value as a result. So players can run around and target those items then sell them back for significant profit. I know players who make their living on ESO doing this. In short: the current system is a market flipper's dream come true.

In a centralized and free market with a visible price history - the only way for a player to effectively "flip" the market to their advantage would be to monopolize the supply and then artificially raise prices. That would be difficult to pull off - especially long term - which is why I've rarely seen it done.

The only time I've ever seen central auction houses manipulated like that on a MMO was when packs of gold sellers could dominate spawn points for monsters that dropped rare items players had no other way to obtain. And that's not something I can see happening on this game.

Market flippers are not a bad thing by any means. The person who sells the item initially makes bank and the person who flips it makes bank. Market flipping is much more desirable than bot manipulation. Central ACs are very well suited for bot manipulation and the speed that they can operate is significantly more effective and efficient than any of us could come close to.

Flippers are a Cancer, you are ment to be buying an item so you can use it, not so you can make more gold to make more gold to make more gold while doing nothing, and at the expense of other players.

For example, have you ever wondered how you can buy BIS purple jewelry Cheaper than you can craft a Purple Seducer/way of the arena infused Ring?
The market has never Recoverd/Normalised from the price hikes of the systems first release so now a new player can't even craft beginner gear that isn't even that good (then they are with you in a PUG doing no damage)

Not really. With a decentralized system people who want to spend their time searching Tamriel for deals and then post them at as higher price are not creating any problems. They are in fact performing a service. The player who is in a smaller trade guild or maybe a PvE guild that gets a trader makes bank and the person who has taken the time to find those deals and post them in a higher trafficked area also earns a return.

That does not cause any problems in the game.

What does cause an issue is if someone bought up everything of one particular item so that they were the only game in town, and they started posting them at a much higher rate. That leads to actual market manipulation and is much easier to do with a central trade system. This reason alone is a great reason for Zos to keep the current guild trader system.

I did not answer you question because it was too generalized to even consider answering.

Taleof2Cities

Jeremy wrote: »

And no one uses the guild trader system anyway. They use the Tamriel Trade Centre (or others like it) - which is basically just a global auction house simulator as I said. So the game has already basically adopted a global auction house model that everyone accepts.

It's still puzzling that players think Tamriel Trade Centre is the bible when it comes to trading ... and use it to support their view that we already have an Auction House.

Don't get me wrong, the TTC add-on is great for players to review listings and help with pricing.

But, players have to temper their expectations when it comes to the website:

1. TTC listings are NOT real time. It is possible to head to a trader 5 minutes after a listing posted and not find the item.
2. Neither every player nor every trading guild participates in downloading data to the TTC client. Therefore, website listings are not all-inclusive.
3. TTC is not console friendly for Xbox and PS4 users.

Bottom Line: Any attempt to argue that TTC serves as the auction house "pro tempore" in ESO is misguided ... including the forum-goer's post above.

Anotherone773

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

And no one uses the guild trader system anyway. They use the Tamriel Trade Centre (or others like it) - which is basically just a global auction house simulator as I said. So the game has already basically adopted a global auction house model that everyone accepts.

It's still puzzling that players think Tamriel Trade Centre is the bible when it comes to trading ... and use it to support their view that we already have an Auction House.

Don't get me wrong, the TTC add-on is great for players to review listings and help with pricing.

But, players have to temper their expectations when it comes to the website:

1. TTC listings are NOT real time. It is possible to head to a trader 5 minutes after a listing posted and not find the item.
2. Neither every player nor every trading guild participates in downloading data to the TTC client. Therefore, website listings are not all-inclusive.
3. TTC is not console friendly for Xbox and PS4 users.

Bottom Line: Any attempt to argue that TTC serves as the auction house "pro tempore" in ESO is misguided ... including the forum-goer's post above.

I use TTC client but on my old PC i had to use the site itself to check prices. I learned quickly when i first started using the site version as a trader, that you could only use it as a ballpark. I also quickly learned that location was the most important factor which is one major reason why TTC ( and MM) only work as ballparks. If you dont know how to use the data from TTC when buying and selling its not nearly as useful.

kargen27

Wolf_Eye wrote: »

Look, I just want something like TTC but inside the game. It doesn't have to show whether it SELLS at that price like MM does, just that it's currently listed at the price and is located at such and such city.

Plenty of people use TTC, including sellers, so it would be helpful to all I think.

People keep their guild traders, you still have to go to the location of the guild trader in order to buy the item (so it's not an auction house), but you can just look it up in game instead of having to rely on add-ons.

I just think it would be a little more fair to the console players.

Plus, easier for me as a seller to look up what other people are listing their stuff for so I can price my own stuff accordingly.

I want to see something different. I want a central board in each zone that shows what every guild trader in that zone has. There would be no prices shown. That way people that want to just get the item quick can do so and players that want to bargain hunt would have to go to each trader that has the item. If it showed every trader in the zone all at once it might take a toll on the server? So maybe at the central board there would be a drop down menu where you select each guild separately. Still a bit of a search but you wouldn't have to travel until it is time to buy.

AlnilamE

Jeremy wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

So I suspect most of the resistance to a global auction house on this game - which has already been basically embraced by the population through the use of third party resources - is from "Market flippers" who make money off those who incorrectly price items because they don't either don't know or don't use these tools. I could be wrong, but I doubt it. Because otherwise you would see more push back against these addons and internet sites.

now this just blows my mind - there is no correct price for items - it has the price at which the trade is happening and that can be different at any time or location - listed prices mean nothing, they are offers not actual trades - there is no correct price for as long as the trade is happening - and it is just correct in the moment of the trade - in a different place and/or a different time the price can be different - this notion of a correct price at all times is just wrong.

When I say "correct" price what I mean is a competitive price on par with the market average.

There is no reason for it to blow your mind.

the thing is a price isn't incorrect even it is not competitive - if someone takes the offer and buys it, it is a correct trade at a correct price - offer made, offer accepted - price doesn't have to be competitive at all.

I've already explained to you what I meant when I said priced correctly. So there is no need to pursue this.

What I meant when I said that is an item that is competitively priced on par with the market average. So just pretend like I never used the words correct or incorrect if you have a problem with those words.

People list items below vendor price. And that's before taxes.

dhboy123

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

And no one uses the guild trader system anyway. They use the Tamriel Trade Centre (or others like it) - which is basically just a global auction house simulator as I said. So the game has already basically adopted a global auction house model that everyone accepts.

It's still puzzling that players think Tamriel Trade Centre is the bible when it comes to trading ... and use it to support their view that we already have an Auction House.

Don't get me wrong, the TTC add-on is great for players to review listings and help with pricing.

But, players have to temper their expectations when it comes to the website:

1. TTC listings are NOT real time. It is possible to head to a trader 5 minutes after a listing posted and not find the item.
2. Neither every player nor every trading guild participates in downloading data to the TTC client. Therefore, website listings are not all-inclusive.
3. TTC is not console friendly for Xbox and PS4 users.

Bottom Line: Any attempt to argue that TTC serves as the auction house "pro tempore" in ESO is misguided ... including the forum-goer's post above.

TTC has almost 1.5 Million downloads so far, that is an astonishing amount for a 3rd party program.. Not to mention Master merchant has over 2.5 Million downloads (who want's to go to 20 different guild traders to see the average of an item they have found.)..

The whole guild trading system is archaic, I cannot think of any other MMO that has such a terrible system apart from some Eastern P2W games where you have to sell individually.

The problem that we have is that ZOS is no longer implementing changes to already finished products such as the Guild trading systems. If you go read their most recent pinned thread in general discussions you will see the route that they are going down now (4 updates in a year, 1 every 3 months).. this is the steps taken by a game that is reducing time taken on their game and most likely prolonging the death of the game.

Hotdog_23

I am for a global auction house just because it would be a time saver for console players.

[Not baiting]
Honestly if you are on PC and use any add-on to help with trading then your opinion is biased if you are against changing the current system because you are not using the current system as it is setup.

If you are for or against changing our current system of trading and share any opinion on it then you should also put a disclaimer in your comments whether, you use add-ons to change the default system baked into the game or not. This would help me and other judge your comments better.

Disclaimer: PS4 NA, no add-ons

Be safe and have fun 😉

Anotherone773

dhboy123 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

And no one uses the guild trader system anyway. They use the Tamriel Trade Centre (or others like it) - which is basically just a global auction house simulator as I said. So the game has already basically adopted a global auction house model that everyone accepts.

It's still puzzling that players think Tamriel Trade Centre is the bible when it comes to trading ... and use it to support their view that we already have an Auction House.

Don't get me wrong, the TTC add-on is great for players to review listings and help with pricing.

But, players have to temper their expectations when it comes to the website:

1. TTC listings are NOT real time. It is possible to head to a trader 5 minutes after a listing posted and not find the item.
2. Neither every player nor every trading guild participates in downloading data to the TTC client. Therefore, website listings are not all-inclusive.
3. TTC is not console friendly for Xbox and PS4 users.

Bottom Line: Any attempt to argue that TTC serves as the auction house "pro tempore" in ESO is misguided ... including the forum-goer's post above.

TTC has almost 1.5 Million downloads so far, that is an astonishing amount for a 3rd party program.. Not to mention Master merchant has over 2.5 Million downloads (who want's to go to 20 different guild traders to see the average of an item they have found.)..

The whole guild trading system is archaic, I cannot think of any other MMO that has such a terrible system apart from some Eastern P2W games where you have to sell individually.

The problem that we have is that ZOS is no longer implementing changes to already finished products such as the Guild trading systems. If you go read their most recent pinned thread in general discussions you will see the route that they are going down now (4 updates in a year, 1 every 3 months).. this is the steps taken by a game that is reducing time taken on their game and most likely prolonging the death of the game.

I dont play ESO because its like other MMOs, i play it because its not. You consider the guild trader system archaic. That is interesting. You know archaic means " old or old fashioned" right? I started playing MMOs back when they were text base and graphics considered of some simple artwork in one corner. Since that time i have played over 100 MMOs. A central AH system has been standard on nearly all games with a player trading system. The localized system used by ESO has not been used all that much. Obviously the flaws in a central AH are driving more developers away from it as i can think of a few that have a more localized trading system instead of global.

One of my pet peeves is when people use "bad" words incorrectly to guilt other people into agreeing with their opinion. Archaic being the bad word here. And it being used incorrectly to suggest localized trading is actually a primitive outdated form of trading. However, the central AH system IS archaic and full of flaws that cause it to be a failure and a waste of game code. Which is why we see more games leaning towards developing a robust in game trade system.

ZaroktheImmortal

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.

If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they

Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.

With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).

What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).

These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"

The current system enables "market flippers". Unless you refer to third party resources as a guide it's difficult to know what the average price for an item is. Many players (especially newer ones) end up selling their items beneath market value as a result. So players can run around and target those items then sell them back for significant profit. I know players who make their living on ESO doing this. In short: the current system is a market flipper's dream come true.

In a centralized and free market with a visible price history - the only way for a player to effectively "flip" the market to their advantage would be to monopolize the supply and then artificially raise prices. That would be difficult to pull off - especially long term - which is why I've rarely seen it done.

The only time I've ever seen central auction houses manipulated like that on a MMO was when packs of gold sellers could dominate spawn points for monsters that dropped rare items players had no other way to obtain. And that's not something I can see happening on this game.

Market flippers are not a bad thing by any means. The person who sells the item initially makes bank and the person who flips it makes bank. Market flipping is much more desirable than bot manipulation. Central ACs are very well suited for bot manipulation and the speed that they can operate is significantly more effective and efficient than any of us could come close to.

Whether you believe market flippers are a bad thing or not is beside the point. I was responding to a poster who seemed to believe the current system prevented market flippers when it actuality it only encourages and rewards it.

As far as bots "manipulating" a central auction house - those would be very easy to detect.

Of course, they would be easy to detect just as bots performing other activities are so easy to detect. The fact is they run rampant through MMORPGs and they constantly improve o working around new methods to detect them.

How do we know this is a fact, well, how do you think the gold sellers get all that gold, to begin with? Crown Gifting also boosted that gold selling market by the way. So it is simple to suggest it is easy to detect bot activity but that does not reflect reality.

I've never seen bots manipulating a central auction house and I've been playing MMOs for decades. So I"m not sure what games you have been playing where they are running "rampant" on but all I can say is they must have inept developers who simply don't care about cheating running rampant on their games. And if that is the case, then their auction house is probably the least of their problems.

The reason the developers of this game opted not to have a centralized auction house has nothing to do with bots or market flipping or any kind of possible manipulations. They were concerned that the "mega server" would lead to mega deflation. All of these arguments about bots, market flippers and manipulating are misplaced and really have no relevant association with a centralized auction house, at least not one that is competently designed and run.

And yes - anyone who attempted to buy up the market with bots would be easy to detect. That is the reality. ^^

If you say so. . . . .

I also never said the developers of this game designed the current system because of bots. However, you are wrong about the market manipulation statement. One of the reasons they specifically stated for a guild based system was the effect on the price that having everything in one place could have. Granted they commented on how the price of more common items are driven down to worthlessness because everyone keeps posting their items below the previous one. That also works in reverse when given someone with deep pockets can simply purchase all the devalued items and repost them for more. [snip]

Regardless, the guild trading system is here to stay. It is what Zos wanted and it has been proven to work well. Zos knows players will not leave the game because of the trading system so they have no reason to change it.

[snip] Wouldn't be the first time they've done changes to the game. [snip] There are a lot of things that we got that people were calling a 'dead horse' and never would happen then we got them.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

ZaroktheImmortal

VoxAdActa wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

It's probably not just selling their overland set pieces for good money that's the issue for them. It's being able to buy them.

Since newer players are likely not going to belong to trade guilds - there probably isn't a lot of lower level gear coming into the market. Though as you said, you level up so fast on this game I"m not sure it would sell even if there was.

I mean, when I was leveling my main before I could craft stuff, I was occasionally annoyed that I couldn't finish out an overland set that I wanted without having to grind a delve for the gloves, or whatever. But that's such a niche circumstance: a complete newbie with no crafting, no alts, and no crafters in their guild looking to finish out a set for the zone they're currently adventuring in and wearing whatever drops because they've outleveled their stuff from the last zone.

How long would someone's CP50 Epaulets of the Withered Hand have sat in the guild trader before I came along? Especially since it wasn't important enough to stop questing and check the big spots like Elden Root or Mournhold?

The "let everyone trade" AH-supporters are going to be extra salty that all their hard work in getting ZOS to implement a no-effort trading system still doesn't make them millionaires. They're blaming the Shadowy Cabal of The Trade Guild Illuminati rather than the fact they don't really have anything anyone else wants to buy.

You mean like how the trade guildies claim the sky will fall the world will end the economy will collapse the game will be ruined with an auction house despite several other MMOs doing it successfully? If anyone is trying to spread propaganda I'd say it's the trade guildies.

ZaroktheImmortal

codierussell wrote: »

I am waiting for the day when I sign into the forums and don't see a new thread on auction houses. News flash, ZOS has stated many times this will not be implemented so can we stop the complaining about it? If you hate the game that much for the trading feature than play a different game?

Like dragons, vampire lord form and all the other stuff people said 'ZOS has said they wouldn't do therefore my word is law and it won't happen'? Trade guildies either claim it'll ruin the game and the economy or that ZOS has said it and it won't happen despite us seeing the same talk of oh they said this won't happen then it does. Funny that ah? And no one said they hate the game just the trading system.

ZaroktheImmortal

PizzaCat82 wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I am waiting for the day when I sign into the forums and don't see a new thread on auction houses. News flash, ZOS has stated many times this will not be implemented so can we stop the complaining about it? If you hate the game that much for the trading feature than play a different game?

Hi @codierussell how do you feel about them implementing a new auction house since you took the time to come to the forums and click on the link that says "central auction house" and post in it?

I for one think they'd be pretty nice but there would have to be severe anti-botting measures for the PC crowd so that it would not be taken advantage of. Other MMOs seem to have them without a collapsed economy but how do you feel in particular?

This exactly;. Other MMOs have one and it works fine. But oh no it'll ruin our economy they took meh jab. The whole game will end. The old doomsayer fear mongerering

ZaroktheImmortal

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.

If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they

Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.

With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).

What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).

These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"

The current system enables "market flippers". game.

I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.

At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.

How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.

Anotherone773

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

VoxAdActa wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

It's probably not just selling their overland set pieces for good money that's the issue for them. It's being able to buy them.

Since newer players are likely not going to belong to trade guilds - there probably isn't a lot of lower level gear coming into the market. Though as you said, you level up so fast on this game I"m not sure it would sell even if there was.

I mean, when I was leveling my main before I could craft stuff, I was occasionally annoyed that I couldn't finish out an overland set that I wanted without having to grind a delve for the gloves, or whatever. But that's such a niche circumstance: a complete newbie with no crafting, no alts, and no crafters in their guild looking to finish out a set for the zone they're currently adventuring in and wearing whatever drops because they've outleveled their stuff from the last zone.

How long would someone's CP50 Epaulets of the Withered Hand have sat in the guild trader before I came along? Especially since it wasn't important enough to stop questing and check the big spots like Elden Root or Mournhold?

The "let everyone trade" AH-supporters are going to be extra salty that all their hard work in getting ZOS to implement a no-effort trading system still doesn't make them millionaires. They're blaming the Shadowy Cabal of The Trade Guild Illuminati rather than the fact they don't really have anything anyone else wants to buy.

You mean like how the trade guildies claim the sky will fall the world will end the economy will collapse the game will be ruined with an auction house despite several other MMOs doing it successfully? If anyone is trying to spread propaganda I'd say it's the trade guildies.

I dont know of any game that uses a central AH that has a robust trade economy. Please give examples of these trade meccas.

ZaroktheImmortal

dhboy123 wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

Hey folks, we have removed several comments from this thread that were bashing and baiting. Please avoid insulting other players when you disagree with their posts. We welcome you to share your ideas and suggestion on what you would like to see changed in the game. When you disagree with someone's ideas you are welcome to share your contrasting views but please do not insult others when doing so. Remember they too are people who enjoy playing ESO and want to see the game be the best it can be, just like you.

I am always excited to see an ZOS post on these threads and then get disappointed once again when it's just a moderation post.

Can we please remove these posts from the sidebar? Surely the posts by ZOS employees should only be in terms of the thread and not random mod posts.

Well...to be fair most of the mod comments in posts is just to say they removed or changed some posts. I think now I usually just expect it to be moderation when I see that symbol on a post thread cause it usually is.

idk

.

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I am waiting for the day when I sign into the forums and don't see a new thread on auction houses. News flash, ZOS has stated many times this will not be implemented so can we stop the complaining about it? If you hate the game that much for the trading feature than play a different game?

Like dragons, vampire lord form and all the other stuff people said 'ZOS has said they wouldn't do therefore my word is law and it won't happen'? Trade guildies either claim it'll ruin the game and the economy or that ZOS has said it and it won't happen despite us seeing the same talk of oh they said this won't happen then it does. Funny that ah? And no one said they hate the game just the trading system.

Zos said there would not be dragons in ESO. It was one of the lead devs but I cannot recall which one as that was over six years ago. They also acknowledged they were eating crown when they announced they were bringing dragons to ESO. I really do not recall much of an argument for vampire lord form and especially people clamoring it would never happen, but whatev.

The difference between bringing dragons into ESO and doing a major rebuild of a game system is much larger than a dragon. Apples and oranges does not even characterize the difference well.

Considering that Zos had sound reasons for using a decentralized system, those reasons still hold up, and that players will not leave the game because of the trading system I do not think Zos has much need or reason to make the change. I am only noting my opinion based on game observations. I respect that you would prefer an easier system.

ZaroktheImmortal

idk wrote: »

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ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I am waiting for the day when I sign into the forums and don't see a new thread on auction houses. News flash, ZOS has stated many times this will not be implemented so can we stop the complaining about it? If you hate the game that much for the trading feature than play a different game?

Like dragons, vampire lord form and all the other stuff people said 'ZOS has said they wouldn't do therefore my word is law and it won't happen'? Trade guildies either claim it'll ruin the game and the economy or that ZOS has said it and it won't happen despite us seeing the same talk of oh they said this won't happen then it does. Funny that ah? And no one said they hate the game just the trading system.

Zos said there would not be dragons in ESO. It was one of the lead devs but I cannot recall which one as that was over six years ago. They also acknowledged they were eating crown when they announced they were bringing dragons to ESO. I really do not recall much of an argument for vampire lord form and especially people clamoring it would never happen, but whatev.

The difference between bringing dragons into ESO and doing a major rebuild of a game system is much larger than a dragon. Apples and oranges does not even characterize the difference well.

Considering that Zos had sound reasons for using a decentralized system, those reasons still hold up, and that players will not leave the game because of the trading system I do not think Zos has much need or reason to make the change. I am only noting my opinion based on game observations. I respect that you would prefer an easier system.

I was just making the point that just because they've said something in the past won't happen doesn't mean it won't. The game changes the developers change their minds on things and stuff changes. So the argument 'ZOS said this so it won't change' isn't a valid one.

idk

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

.

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I am waiting for the day when I sign into the forums and don't see a new thread on auction houses. News flash, ZOS has stated many times this will not be implemented so can we stop the complaining about it? If you hate the game that much for the trading feature than play a different game?

Like dragons, vampire lord form and all the other stuff people said 'ZOS has said they wouldn't do therefore my word is law and it won't happen'? Trade guildies either claim it'll ruin the game and the economy or that ZOS has said it and it won't happen despite us seeing the same talk of oh they said this won't happen then it does. Funny that ah? And no one said they hate the game just the trading system.

Zos said there would not be dragons in ESO. It was one of the lead devs but I cannot recall which one as that was over six years ago. They also acknowledged they were eating crown when they announced they were bringing dragons to ESO. I really do not recall much of an argument for vampire lord form and especially people clamoring it would never happen, but whatev.

The difference between bringing dragons into ESO and doing a major rebuild of a game system is much larger than a dragon. Apples and oranges does not even characterize the difference well.

Considering that Zos had sound reasons for using a decentralized system, those reasons still hold up, and that players will not leave the game because of the trading system I do not think Zos has much need or reason to make the change. I am only noting my opinion based on game observations. I respect that you would prefer an easier system.

I was just making the point that just because they've said something in the past won't happen doesn't mean it won't. The game changes the developers change their minds on things and stuff changes. So the argument 'ZOS said this so it won't change' isn't a valid one.

Clearly Zos has changed their mind before. Yes, but the work to create and add the dragon to the game is small potatoes compared to scrapping a complete game system that works to build a new one from scratch. If the day comes that Matt Firor still runs the show and the guild trader system is scratched I will admit I was wrong.

Have a good day and enjoy the game.

ZaroktheImmortal

idk wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

.

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I am waiting for the day when I sign into the forums and don't see a new thread on auction houses. News flash, ZOS has stated many times this will not be implemented so can we stop the complaining about it? If you hate the game that much for the trading feature than play a different game?

Like dragons, vampire lord form and all the other stuff people said 'ZOS has said they wouldn't do therefore my word is law and it won't happen'? Trade guildies either claim it'll ruin the game and the economy or that ZOS has said it and it won't happen despite us seeing the same talk of oh they said this won't happen then it does. Funny that ah? And no one said they hate the game just the trading system.

Zos said there would not be dragons in ESO. It was one of the lead devs but I cannot recall which one as that was over six years ago. They also acknowledged they were eating crown when they announced they were bringing dragons to ESO. I really do not recall much of an argument for vampire lord form and especially people clamoring it would never happen, but whatev.

The difference between bringing dragons into ESO and doing a major rebuild of a game system is much larger than a dragon. Apples and oranges does not even characterize the difference well.

Considering that Zos had sound reasons for using a decentralized system, those reasons still hold up, and that players will not leave the game because of the trading system I do not think Zos has much need or reason to make the change. I am only noting my opinion based on game observations. I respect that you would prefer an easier system.

I was just making the point that just because they've said something in the past won't happen doesn't mean it won't. The game changes the developers change their minds on things and stuff changes. So the argument 'ZOS said this so it won't change' isn't a valid one.

Clearly Zos has changed their mind before. Yes, but the work to create and add the dragon to the game is small potatoes compared to scrapping a complete game system that works to build a new one from scratch. If the day comes that Matt Firor still runs the show and the guild trader system is scratched I will admit I was wrong.

Have a good day and enjoy the game.

Doesn't mean it won't happen. And it wouldn't be that big of a change as you suggest. It'd simply mean that traders no longer run through guilds heck if they wanted to keep zone traders could just allow anyone to list stuff at specific traders and all this talk of oh but someone can just list everything and it'll ruin the economy well if they have the specific locations all that changes is you don't have to be part of such and such guild to do it. They could even limit amounts you can list at different traders. There a lot of ways this could be implemented.

dhboy123

Anotherone773 wrote: »

dhboy123 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

And no one uses the guild trader system anyway. They use the Tamriel Trade Centre (or others like it) - which is basically just a global auction house simulator as I said. So the game has already basically adopted a global auction house model that everyone accepts.

It's still puzzling that players think Tamriel Trade Centre is the bible when it comes to trading ... and use it to support their view that we already have an Auction House.

Don't get me wrong, the TTC add-on is great for players to review listings and help with pricing.

But, players have to temper their expectations when it comes to the website:

1. TTC listings are NOT real time. It is possible to head to a trader 5 minutes after a listing posted and not find the item.
2. Neither every player nor every trading guild participates in downloading data to the TTC client. Therefore, website listings are not all-inclusive.
3. TTC is not console friendly for Xbox and PS4 users.

Bottom Line: Any attempt to argue that TTC serves as the auction house "pro tempore" in ESO is misguided ... including the forum-goer's post above.

TTC has almost 1.5 Million downloads so far, that is an astonishing amount for a 3rd party program.. Not to mention Master merchant has over 2.5 Million downloads (who want's to go to 20 different guild traders to see the average of an item they have found.)..

The whole guild trading system is archaic, I cannot think of any other MMO that has such a terrible system apart from some Eastern P2W games where you have to sell individually.

The problem that we have is that ZOS is no longer implementing changes to already finished products such as the Guild trading systems. If you go read their most recent pinned thread in general discussions you will see the route that they are going down now (4 updates in a year, 1 every 3 months).. this is the steps taken by a game that is reducing time taken on their game and most likely prolonging the death of the game.

I dont play ESO because its like other MMOs, i play it because its not. You consider the guild trader system archaic. That is interesting. You know archaic means " old or old fashioned" right? I started playing MMOs back when they were text base and graphics considered of some simple artwork in one corner. Since that time i have played over 100 MMOs. A central AH system has been standard on nearly all games with a player trading system. The localized system used by ESO has not been used all that much. Obviously the flaws in a central AH are driving more developers away from it as i can think of a few that have a more localized trading system instead of global.

One of my pet peeves is when people use "bad" words incorrectly to guilt other people into agreeing with their opinion. Archaic being the bad word here. And it being used incorrectly to suggest localized trading is actually a primitive outdated form of trading. However, the central AH system IS archaic and full of flaws that cause it to be a failure and a waste of game code. Which is why we see more games leaning towards developing a robust in game trade system.

[snip] You know full well what I meant by the word archaic, before auction houses were even implemented trades were done P2P which happens quite frequently nowadays because people are fed up with how useless the Guild house trading system is implemented.

There is a reason why the majority of MMO's adopt the auction house system, i'm sure you know why so I won't bore you.

P.s because it works alot better. Guild trading is not a ROBUST in game trade system... It's terrible and not adopted by 95% of MMO's for a reason.

[Edited to remove Rudeness]

idk

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

idk wrote: »

.

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

codierussell wrote: »

I am waiting for the day when I sign into the forums and don't see a new thread on auction houses. News flash, ZOS has stated many times this will not be implemented so can we stop the complaining about it? If you hate the game that much for the trading feature than play a different game?

Like dragons, vampire lord form and all the other stuff people said 'ZOS has said they wouldn't do therefore my word is law and it won't happen'? Trade guildies either claim it'll ruin the game and the economy or that ZOS has said it and it won't happen despite us seeing the same talk of oh they said this won't happen then it does. Funny that ah? And no one said they hate the game just the trading system.

Zos said there would not be dragons in ESO. It was one of the lead devs but I cannot recall which one as that was over six years ago. They also acknowledged they were eating crown when they announced they were bringing dragons to ESO. I really do not recall much of an argument for vampire lord form and especially people clamoring it would never happen, but whatev.

The difference between bringing dragons into ESO and doing a major rebuild of a game system is much larger than a dragon. Apples and oranges does not even characterize the difference well.

Considering that Zos had sound reasons for using a decentralized system, those reasons still hold up, and that players will not leave the game because of the trading system I do not think Zos has much need or reason to make the change. I am only noting my opinion based on game observations. I respect that you would prefer an easier system.

I was just making the point that just because they've said something in the past won't happen doesn't mean it won't. The game changes the developers change their minds on things and stuff changes. So the argument 'ZOS said this so it won't change' isn't a valid one.

Clearly Zos has changed their mind before. Yes, but the work to create and add the dragon to the game is small potatoes compared to scrapping a complete game system that works to build a new one from scratch. If the day comes that Matt Firor still runs the show and the guild trader system is scratched I will admit I was wrong.

Have a good day and enjoy the game.

Doesn't mean it won't happen. And it wouldn't be that big of a change as you suggest. It'd simply mean that traders no longer run through guilds heck if they wanted to keep zone traders could just allow anyone to list stuff at specific traders and all this talk of oh but someone can just list everything and it'll ruin the economy well if they have the specific locations all that changes is you don't have to be part of such and such guild to do it. They could even limit amounts you can list at different traders. There a lot of ways this could be implemented.

Odd how I just acknowledged it could happen. Also, it would be that big of a change. A dragon is not a game system. The trading system is a game system and it would require a redesign. So it is, in fact, as big as I am suggesting.

satanio

aenax wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Why would ZOS want to change a system which creates interesting game play and something to do beside just killing mobs or other players?- And it isn't even hard to get into a trading guild - it took me just to make a request to the guild master, and I told him upfront, that I haven't much to sell on a regular basis (well, it turned out to be more than I thought it would be). I still got an invitation pretty much right away and so it was as well with those other 2 guilds I joined - just try it, it is fairly easy.

You should read economy 001 ... It not interesting to swing between wayshrines to check traders, and anyway what i propose will still allow you to it it. Just consider real life, if you want some goods you simply go and buy them, you will never find any shop selling a good 100 when another sells it 1.

We need global price transparency and easy access to the market.

It is rotten like many "original" aspects of this game, i played a month and I m close to quit.

Your real life analogy is wrong.
I hope you are pushing your government to make a big store with everything, too.

Anotherone773

dhboy123 wrote: »

Christ, get off your high horse.

I actually ride a Guar not a horse and he is kind of short.

You know full well what I meant by the word archaic

I would assume archaic because that is the word you used.

which happens quite frequently nowadays because people are fed up with how useless the Guild house trading system is implemented.

really? friends might trade amongst themselves but i dont see people standing around trading items like they are at a swap meet. In fact i actually see less zone chat trading as well, now that i think about it.

There is a reason why the majority of MMO's adopt the auction house system, i'm sure you know why so I won't bore you.

Yes, its cheaper to create and easier to manage. It is the laziest trade system you can implement in a game besides direct player to player trading. They do it because its more cost effective on their end not because its better.

Guild trading is not a ROBUST in game trade system

Its pretty robust for me. Im selling goods at a good rate for a fair price. Im not being constantly undercutted and the prices are pretty steady. If i am looking the buy, prices are fair enough that i weight my options of obtaining the item myself or just buying it. That is pretty robust from my POV.

It's terrible and not adopted by 95% of MMO's for a reason.

Not adopted by other MMOS because, again, it requires more effort and more upkeep so they chose to do the cheap easy economy murdering route.

A small percentage of new players will get on the forums and complain about the trade system because they are to lazy to learn to use it and to lazy to actually put a bit of work into getting an item. They always want it changed to be more like game X. Then all the parrots jump in the thread and complain about the trade system but overall there are not a lot of people that dislike this trade system. Not from where i am sitting.

Onigar

The trader system we have now in game is great. It is fully market economy based and distributed throughout the regions.

Making anything central would be a disaster.

From time to time someone posts such a thread as this.

I am so happy that ZOS does not make any changes to the trader system.

If you need search for something across all the guilds then Tamriel Trade Center supports you for this.

It is not always important to get the best deal when buying and equally it is not critical to be in one of the top trading guilds.

Just choose to go with what is there and be flexible. Remember, this is a game so have fun and don't get hung up on trader stuff

kargen27

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.

If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they

Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.

With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).

What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).

These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"

The current system enables "market flippers". game.

I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.

At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.

How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.

There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.

colossalvoids

So yet again - whats the exact proposal to all the active trading guilds out there after proposed, erm, change? Just disband / leave the game or what exactly do you want from it?

Also funny people mention things that zos added despite stating the opposite before, there is a word "add" by the way and not "destroy purpose of existence for like half the guilds because newbies should list/sell their iron ore for 2g/p".

ZaroktheImmortal

kargen27 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.

If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they

Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.

With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).

What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).

These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"

The current system enables "market flippers". game.

I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.

At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.

How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.

There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.

Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?

idk

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

ZaroktheImmortal wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Lapin_Logic wrote: »

aenax wrote: »

First and foremost ALL MMO have one, Eq1 started without and so people were selling in a famous tunnel but a broker was added after 1-2 years.

If you wonder why we need one just watch Yale online course about free market, they

Thing with a central house is it makes it easier for market flippers to Vacuum the low cost items and mark them up.

With more small stores tou have many options to find the lowest price (add ons have less raw data and more disparate figures).

What ESO needs is More vendors, a way that multiple guilds are selectable from 1 vendor (say 10 guilds per trader), a Bid Cap on securing a vendor or a way for Every guild to sell to public (1 NPC called "The trader" that you can browse every guild that has at least 100 items for sale).

These measures would remove the current practice of only the wealthiest guilds being able to trade or guilds constantly passing the begging bowl for "Donations" or "Minimum sale requirements"

The current system enables "market flippers". game.

I mean it is easier for 1 guy with 1 billion gold to sit in a central trader, list all Tempering Alloy by lowest price and Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy, Buy.......
Than it is for a guy to check each vendor, travel zone then check all these, Yes they "Can" do it, and Have done it (one guy bought Every Tempering Alloy in a 12 Hour period, let the market panic and price gouge for a while then dumped everything for a profit.

At least disparate locations of traders gives a window where you can strike lucky on a bargain that others have missed or have not reached, but on a central trader it would be gone in a micro second.

How exactly does guild traders prevent this? Someone with all that amount of it could do the same with a guild trader and any with ttc would be able to find it there. It'd still sell up. And besides this doesn't put an argument in favor of guild traders. They could keep traders in locations but let anyone list in specific locations if that were the issue.

There are more than 200 traders in the game. A single person isn't going to be able to sit on more than three or four. TTC often is not current and even if it were one person isn't going to be able to keep tabs on all 200+ traders. Just isn't going to happen.

Oh yes because people who actually use traders totally won't use tamerial trade center and someone couldn't post a lot of stuff below normal value and people wouldn't see it at all right?

I did not start using TTC until about a year ago. I still do not use it very often outside of a general price idea. I had preferred Master Merchant that only gave me information based on the history of my guilds but Zos has made it so it does not update efficiently for server performance. Server performance is another reason why Zos is highly unlikely to go to a central trading system anytime soon. It would make searches significantly larger which would add to the server.