Any news about this Battleground... "Experiment"?

HalvarIronfist · May 2020

I've played BGs before and after the solo queue change. As a (what I would like to believe) fully competent player that enjoys PVPing solo or with friends; this change has been miserable for battleground health in my opinion.

In the past I've previously mentioned about how my matches felt really like 1v1v1, with three carrying players while the rest tend to be cannon fodder.. At the time, I was skeptical, and took the wide answer of. "It's due to MMR resets".

Well. It's been plenty of time and I could reliably say I've ran 70-100 BGs since that initial moment. That opinion about the players has yet to change, and holy hell does it feel bland and boring.

For an example; I decided to try out a new BG build tonight on my main stamdk. Here's a game that completely highlighted what I'm talking about so disproportionately.

If I had the idea of making this post any sooner, I would have taken pictures of a few more of the games i ran like this. I would have to assume this is not what ZOS intended the solo queue system to be... Bland.. 1v1v1 games?

Anyhow; aside from my complaints, have there been any updates on the situation regarding BGs? If so, I'm just blind and havent seen them.

Rake · May 2020

So you enjoy 500v0v15 scores better?
or if facing completely premades while premade 75v125v100 after 15 minutes?

HalvarIronfist · May 2020

Rake wrote: »

So you enjoy 500v0v15 scores better?
or if facing completely premades while premade 75v125v100 after 15 minutes?

Stomping... versus... stomping? in your first point. Not sure what you're trying to insinuate by that.

Secondly.. Premade grouping was a choice. A choice every player was free to make. If you chose not to make a group for.. (shocking observation.) group content, you shouldn't be too alarmed when other people do.. and succeed because of it, or have longer, more competitive matches between organized groups.

It's almost like Battlegrounds were a team based gamemode. (4v4v4) to promote... grouping.. and teamplay.

Rake · May 2020

What you see as teamplay I see as farming unorganized groups.
What you see as grouping I see as zerging.

jecks33 · May 2020

I left Bgs more than a year ago because of premades, I had no friends to team up with and always losing against well-organized groups was frustrating. Now I'm back to bgs, they're balances and I have a lot of fun. For me it's better now.

Erelah · May 2020

I now play battlegrounds a lot more as there a no premades out there. Just equally skilled players working towards a goal. If I want group play PVP to play with a family or friends there is PVP for that as well and I head into Cyrodil.

red_emu · May 2020

I stopped doing BGs because of the pre mades. I have a "choice" to make a group?

Not everyone is lucky to find people in this game who are free at the same time, have discord and can group with you.

Getting absolutely steam rolled by a pre made was no fun. Of course it was fun for you. Getting all those kills for kewl screenshots and shouting yeooooo into headset.

Entire game is geared towards grouping. Does that mean world bosses should be 1000 times harder unless you're On discord with your mates? Should dungeons and trials have one shot mechanics with every single mob unless the game detects discord being in use? Should Cyrodill be only for groups and you're not allowed to leave a base camp unless you're in a group?

I truly hope that they never reintroduce grouping in BGs. Even if it's just to spite elitists.

Taylor_MB · May 2020

I don't know if Chaos Ball is the best example, none of the metrics displayed on the summary screen are actually important.

Healing is most important, and all we can see of that is your score which is pretty low (not your fault, stam toon).

Qbiken · May 2020

Solo queue only is a disaster. Every game comes down to which of the previous high mmr players that can farm the in experienced feeders in every team. The amount of games that I join which are already in progress due to people leaving has increased by alot.

Add the increased lag in BG's with this patch and you've a tragic experience. Group queue needs to be added back, or at least allow duo, but the current system is just bad.

OlumoGarbag · May 2020

can only agree with OP. Queing as high MMR player is a 1v1v1 with a fight of who has the best feeders in the enemy teams.
The average scores i see is 28kills for one player and over 10 deaths for his teammates

Nairinhe · May 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

Solo queue only is a disaster. Every game comes down to which of the previous high mmr players that can farm the in experienced feeders in every team. The amount of games that I join which are already in progress due to people leaving has increased by alot.

Add the increased lag in BG's with this patch and you've a tragic experience. Group queue needs to be added back, or at least allow duo, but the current system is just bad.

How would grouping fix it? Wouldn't organized groups of experienced players farm unorganized groups?
Edit to add: This was exactly the reason for making BGs solo-only, no? Honest questions, I'm a complete noob in BGs.

OlumoGarbag · May 2020

Nairinhe wrote: »

How would grouping fix it? Wouldn't organized groups of experienced players farm unorganized groups?

If the MMR system would work, unorganized groups would never match up with high mmr groups in the first place.

Also i strongly recommend not bringing back group ques since a full 4 man premade stack was almost always filled with cancer setups.

I would love a que with solo and duos only with a maximum of one duo per team so matches are about teamplay again and not about farming the other teams low mmr players.

Chaos2088 · May 2020

There should be two seperate ques.

I understand the change as if you were quing solo and got put against a premade team......there was no point of playing really.

But i cant even play a battlegrounds cas I get logged out and a leave timer put on me....

Game is broken.

DreadDaedroth · May 2020

I'm always played BG as single player and I think it's fair I faced the consequences of that ( I.e: being put in bad teams, against premades, losing).

nukk3r · May 2020

Qbiken wrote: »

Solo queue only is a disaster. Every game comes down to which of the previous high mmr players that can farm the in experienced feeders in every team. The amount of games that I join which are already in progress due to people leaving has increased by alot.

Add the increased lag in BG's with this patch and you've a tragic experience. Group queue needs to be added back, or at least allow duo, but the current system is just bad.

I agree with that, almost every match I'm in now ends with 2-4 players absolutely dominating in terms of kills/points, the rest is just there as a meat shield for experienced players. Premades kept this tourist crowd away and if someone chose to queue solo they knew what they were doing. It took some good thinking and effort to compete against well organized teams and they weren't as invincible as many like to paint it. Yes, it sucked when your team got obliterated but you can't win every game.

Schokolade · May 2020

red_emu wrote: »

I stopped doing BGs because of the pre mades. I have a "choice" to make a group?

Not everyone is lucky to find people in this game who are free at the same time, have discord and can group with you.

Getting absolutely steam rolled by a pre made was no fun. Of course it was fun for you. Getting all those kills for kewl screenshots and shouting yeooooo into headset.

Entire game is geared towards grouping. Does that mean world bosses should be 1000 times harder unless you're On discord with your mates? Should dungeons and trials have one shot mechanics with every single mob unless the game detects discord being in use? Should Cyrodill be only for groups and you're not allowed to leave a base camp unless you're in a group?

I truly hope that they never reintroduce grouping in BGs. Even if it's just to spite elitists.

BUT, it's true that if you are on discord you'll do boss, dungeons and trial (vet in particular) in a easy mode, and if you don't the % of don't finish a vet is very high.
So what's next? No group for Trials? And then no group for vet DLC? Is not fair that they can get skin in this easy way, yes?

You are playing on a MMO = ONLINE.

All games (MMO) are the same, if you have friends and comunication then you have an advantage.
- and even in Pve for trials best score.
"One person's freedom ends where another's begins"; nobody is stopping you from play with or against your friend/husband now, but after this upgrade I cannot choose to play with.

Why can't THEY find a better solution? Like 2 queues? Note: is their job, not mine - finding a solution I mean

It is an Online game, if I wanna play with friends I should be able to do that.
And don't give me the Cyro thing, because are 2 different type of pvp.
I know the "problem" with only 2 queues, but at least I, WE can choose - still better solution then: remove all premade in an Online game.
note: their job is to find a nice solution, but here we are with our ideas and their approximative method.

Anyone can like this change, but it was bad done; and we can all agree that it was aproximative.
But we all know: It just works.

Note: Often I played with my Gf, a sort of pre made of 2, almost never of 3 or 4, so I understand the "frustation" of be wiped from full premade.
Dying now, just for the random "luck", is just worst and more frustrating (but this line is subjective, I know).

Qbiken wrote: »

Solo queue only is a disaster. Every game comes down to which of the previous high mmr players that can farm the in experienced feeders in every team. The amount of games that I join which are already in progress due to people leaving has increased by alot.

Add the increased lag in BG's with this patch and you've a tragic experience. Group queue needs to be added back, or at least allow duo, but the current system is just bad.

THIS.

Nairinhe · May 2020

OlumoGarbag wrote: »

Nairinhe wrote: »

How would grouping fix it? Wouldn't organized groups of experienced players farm unorganized groups?

If the MMR system would work, unorganized groups would never match up with high mmr groups in the first place.

Also i strongly recommend not bringing back group ques since a full 4 man premade stack was almost always filled with cancer setups.

I would love a que with solo and duos only with a maximum of one duo per team so matches are about teamplay again and not about farming the other teams low mmr players.

But group of high MMR randoms is still significantly weaker that organized group of high MMR player, and I think with higher MMR this gap will only grow?

nukk3r wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

Solo queue only is a disaster. Every game comes down to which of the previous high mmr players that can farm the in experienced feeders in every team. The amount of games that I join which are already in progress due to people leaving has increased by alot.

Add the increased lag in BG's with this patch and you've a tragic experience. Group queue needs to be added back, or at least allow duo, but the current system is just bad.

I agree with that, almost every match I'm in now ends with 2-4 players absolutely dominating in terms of kills/points, the rest is just there as a meat shield for experienced players. Premades kept this tourist crowd away and if someone chose to queue solo they knew what they were doing. It took some good thinking and effort to compete against well organized teams and they weren't as invincible as many like to paint it. Yes, it sucked when your team got obliterated but you can't win every game.

Does that mean "it kept unexperienced player completely away from BGs without much opportunity to learn"? You also shouldn't lose every game, y'know.

Knightpanther · May 2020

Its way better now, i actually dabble in BGs now, couldn't be arsed before having to deal with Premades, it wasn't fun.

Be Safe

Thevampirenight · May 2020

Solo queue has its benefits. For one Death match, teams are not premade though you might get into one with your buddies at times. But at the same time you will so it far more competitive. Like before one group could get up to 500 and the other two groups can't even get past one hundred or two hundred in points but now you can see dynamics of two teams in 400 points or sometimes three teams all with four hundred something points racing to beat the other team. So the idea of this is it makes it more balanced. As Battlegrounds before allowed for groups but also solo play so it was mixed and if you had a team of premades they could easily beat the other teams and it wasn't as great for some matches.
Though it was great for some of the achievements.

However if I was them I would keep the solo queue because it has been a success.
Then maybe add a group play battleground that requires you to be in a group of four to enter. So they can add premade matches. But they wouldn't be part of the random queue version.
So the system should work on Solo queue however have a few premade options that require you to queue up manually for as an option.

Nairinhe · May 2020

Schokolade wrote: »

You are playing on a MMO = ONLINE.

You want "multiplayer" part, not "online"
Multiplayer means "other people" and not always the ones you picked
PVE organized groups don't hurt PVE PUGs

Thevampirenight · May 2020

Thing is about Battle Grounds now its just random groups not really solo. Though there are times a match might start with one person in a team however more will show up in that team. As time goes on so the issue really isn't solo vs premade its random group vs premade groups.
Right now solo queuing places you into a random team. So the idea with this is that player groups diversify.
You can still make friends with random team mates. Sometimes you will be in the match with your friends so the idea is the system picks the team vs you picking your team.
So the idea that not being able to make premades makes this not multiplayer is bull because its still multiplayer.

nukk3r · May 2020

Nairinhe wrote: »

Does that mean "it kept unexperienced player completely away from BGs without much opportunity to learn"? You also shouldn't lose every game, y'know.

It means that it kept away people who are not interested in PvP. But then again, they didn't get matched against premades in low-mid MMR. You learn to play by doing harder things, not easier. If a momentary setback makes someone quit playing altogether, were they really interested in learning?

Brrrofski · May 2020

They're way better like they are. On Xbox EU there are a lot more players than before. Previously you'd queue for 20 minutes to face the same premade that you fought last time.

Even if you grouped with one or two people, you'd face a full group of sweats that would still win. Unless you were in a coordinated 4 man, you had no chance.

Now, every team has a chance to do well.

Also, I actually like a bunch of guildies queuing the same time as me and ending up on opposite teams. It's a lot more fun than being in a premade and either ending up a match in a stale mate or stomping. Either one is boring.

Jeremy · May 2020

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

I've played BGs before and after the solo queue change. As a (what I would like to believe) fully competent player that enjoys PVPing solo or with friends; this change has been miserable for battleground health in my opinion.

In the past I've previously mentioned about how my matches felt really like 1v1v1, with three carrying players while the rest tend to be cannon fodder.. At the time, I was skeptical, and took the wide answer of. "It's due to MMR resets".

Well. It's been plenty of time and I could reliably say I've ran 70-100 BGs since that initial moment. That opinion about the players has yet to change, and holy hell does it feel bland and boring.

For an example; I decided to try out a new BG build tonight on my main stamdk. Here's a game that completely highlighted what I'm talking about so disproportionately.

If I had the idea of making this post any sooner, I would have taken pictures of a few more of the games i ran like this. I would have to assume this is not what ZOS intended the solo queue system to be... Bland.. 1v1v1 games?

Anyhow; aside from my complaints, have there been any updates on the situation regarding BGs? If so, I'm just blind and havent seen them.

I'm not sure I understand your argument.

Allowing premades back into the fold to go up against pugs (and for the record, they are still getting in somehow, just not as often) would just make battlegrounds more disproportionate, not less so.

And those scores your posted aren't that bad. I have seen far far worse.

Urvoth · May 2020

Rake wrote: »

What you see as teamplay I see as farming unorganized groups.
What you see as grouping I see as zerging.

Zerging with 4 people? Ok bud...you know pretty much all the high mmr premades (at least on PC NA) spent a large majority of their time fighting each other and deliberately had tournaments and scheduled games to do so. 500-0-0ing random bots who don’t know how to dodge roll is only fun for so long.

Most “premades” people complained about were just good players that stuck together.

Rave the Histborn · May 2020

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

Rake wrote: »

So you enjoy 500v0v15 scores better?
or if facing completely premades while premade 75v125v100 after 15 minutes?

Stomping... versus... stomping? in your first point. Not sure what you're trying to insinuate by that.

Secondly.. Premade grouping was a choice. A choice every player was free to make. If you chose not to make a group for.. (shocking observation.) group content, you shouldn't be too alarmed when other people do.. and succeed because of it, or have longer, more competitive matches between organized groups.

It's almost like Battlegrounds were a team based gamemode. (4v4v4) to promote... grouping.. and teamplay.

It's not stomping vs stomping, he's trying to say is it better to have 1 good player on a team so they're somewhat even or is it better to let a team of 4 sorcs cheese their way to premade victory. Most people would go with the 1st option

Secondly.. Premade grouping was a choice. A choice every player was free to make. If you chose not to make a group for.. (shocking observation.) group content, you shouldn't be too alarmed when other people do.. and succeed because of it, or have longer, more competitive matches between organized groups.

Sure, it was a "choice" but I shouldn't be forced to have to only "choose" that option. My old BGs team was from all different timezones so I couldn't just put them together at a whim. BGs was also solo content with the option of grouping and you shouldn't be too alarmed when people abuse it....and succeed or have shorter, less competitive matches. None of these fights were ever between organized groups, it'd be a premade 4man zerging the remaining teams of 2 each. That's not fair, fun, competitive, or a choice.

It's almost like Battlegrounds were a team based gamemode. (4v4v4) to promote... grouping.. and teamplay.
They were and still are but it's almost like they weren't designed around only premades dominating 🤔🤔🤔🤔. Makes you wonder why the person that says he enjoys solo pvp's only experience in pvp seems to be grouped BGs.

Solo queue was a great change

Chilly-McFreeze · May 2020

nukk3r wrote: »

were they really interested in learning?

You can be a good player in a pug and still have no chance against a well premades. The goal wouldn’t be to become a better player on your own, it would be to create your own premade. That’s a difference.

But just for the pugstompers to stop bitching, I‘d say give premades their own que. everyone’s happy. Just don’t shove the „premade or bust mantra“ into everyones throat.

deleted221106-002999 · May 2020

I'm pretty sure the solo queue was introduced to generate metrics for zos (can't be bothered looking for the original zos post about this) and had nothing or little to do with groups stomping solo players. edit: seems it was was for both metrics/response to players and this. /edit

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote:

...change to Battlegrounds including solo queuing and MMR resets. To reiterate what was stated in the PTS patch notes, this is a big change to Battlegrounds matchmaking which we are executing partially in response to player feedback and partially as an experiment. We recognize the change will prevent players from being able to reliably team up with friends in Battlegrounds, but it should also improve both the speed of matchmaking and the competitiveness of PvP matches....

Although, in fairness, pre-made groups stomping solo players is pretty much what went on so from that perspective, definite improvement with solo queues.

However it would be better if there were two queues, one for any combination of players and one for solo only.

luen79rwb17_ESO · May 2020

Sadly the real issue has been the same for a very long time now: not enough pool of ppl to match "balanced" teams. Queue wait times is the prioritized variable hence matching high and low skill players toghether in order to get faster groups.

What the OP is missing is that if ZOS decides to listen to his feedback then his queue times would be 9 times longer (following his logic that there's only 1 high MMR for each team). This would only result on the OP comming back here but showing a picture complaining about his queue time.

This was also the case when grouping was allowed and people artificially inflated their MMR taking advantage of pre-made compositions.

If there was a larger pool of players ZOS wouldn't have to code this MMR but since queue wait times is the loudest complain point, it is what it is because both sides would complain of queue times and that's the worst scenario for them.

This is sadly a lose-lose situation for ZOS, their choice is centered around what is the least unpopular option.

xXMeowMeowXx · May 2020

HalvarIronfist wrote: »

I've played BGs before and after the solo queue change. As a (what I would like to believe) fully competent player that enjoys PVPing solo or with friends; this change has been miserable for battleground health in my opinion.

In the past I've previously mentioned about how my matches felt really like 1v1v1, with three carrying players while the rest tend to be cannon fodder.. At the time, I was skeptical, and took the wide answer of. "It's due to MMR resets".

Well. It's been plenty of time and I could reliably say I've ran 70-100 BGs since that initial moment. That opinion about the players has yet to change, and holy hell does it feel bland and boring.

For an example; I decided to try out a new BG build tonight on my main stamdk. Here's a game that completely highlighted what I'm talking about so disproportionately.

If I had the idea of making this post any sooner, I would have taken pictures of a few more of the games i ran like this. I would have to assume this is not what ZOS intended the solo queue system to be... Bland.. 1v1v1 games?

Anyhow; aside from my complaints, have there been any updates on the situation regarding BGs? If so, I'm just blind and havent seen them.

Apparently the experiment has not ended. ZOS has not added in yet a second queue, for groups of friends which is quite sad.

Premades should be an alternative option just as Solo queuing imo. With the proper incentives they could keep the population full.

Perhaps a timed tournament against each other. Something unique added in since it takes more work to have a top notch group.

xXMeowMeowXx · May 2020

Thevampirenight wrote: »

Thing is about Battle Grounds now its just random groups not really solo. Though there are times a match might start with one person in a team however more will show up in that team. As time goes on so the issue really isn't solo vs premade its random group vs premade groups.
Right now solo queuing places you into a random team. So the idea with this is that player groups diversify.
You can still make friends with random team mates. Sometimes you will be in the match with your friends so the idea is the system picks the team vs you picking your team.
So the idea that not being able to make premades makes this not multiplayer is bull because its still multiplayer.

Yeah, do that to trial groups and explain that logic and see how it goes. Try implementing that for Vet dungeons as well and see the response.

ESO is supposed to be about playing with your friends and players of the same caliber.

There is no reason for ZOS not to add a second queue for BGs.

Friends and teammates should have an option too. Which is a second queue, simple.