it is amazing this topic turn into sorc buff thread.
[Snip]

[Edited for bait]

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Anyron , I don't know, magsorcs are actually quite all right in PvE as of now, excluding abysmal sustain. And you want at least one in the group anyway.

Back to topic though, from PvE standpoint it's a silly change. Yes, PvE NBs are better off using Rapid Strikes, but channeled skill just feels disgusting to use, so I'm sure most will keep using SA, and I'm so done with having everything around CC immune in dungeons.

Abysmal sustain? On a Sorc?

If you can sustain a petsorc well, share the secret, I'll pass it on to petsorcs I know. So far you use spell symmetry even on a parse. Share yours (siroria, ms, zaan - no grundwulf, no pfg), show sustain, tell how you did it. Would be awesome.

I've never used my sorc seriously for PVE, and definitely not as a petsorc. I was just shocked to hear you say they struggle — in PVP I can easily run my sorc with at least 25% less sustain than I need on my magblade (probably even less, honestly) and I can also run an Altmer instead of a Breton.

Ah, you mean you're just surprised to hear that sorcs struggle for sustain in PvE because you have different experience in PvP? Well, it's not really surprising. Patterns of play are vastly different in PvE and PvP, different skills, different criteria of success. From experience I can say that I have excellent sustain in PvE as a khajiit magblade.

Well yes, it is surprising to me considering that in every scenario I've used it, my Altmer magsorc has sustained better than my Breton magblade. And I didn't say I never played PVE, I said I never did it seriously — as in no trials (that's what it seemed like you were referring to). I have done plenty of both normal and vet dungeons on it though, and I can't imagine sustain ever being an issue.

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Anyron , I don't know, magsorcs are actually quite all right in PvE as of now, excluding abysmal sustain. And you want at least one in the group anyway.

Back to topic though, from PvE standpoint it's a silly change. Yes, PvE NBs are better off using Rapid Strikes, but channeled skill just feels disgusting to use, so I'm sure most will keep using SA, and I'm so done with having everything around CC immune in dungeons.

only reason why you want one in group may be atronach synergy. there is nothing else

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Anyron , I don't know, magsorcs are actually quite all right in PvE as of now, excluding abysmal sustain. And you want at least one in the group anyway.

Back to topic though, from PvE standpoint it's a silly change. Yes, PvE NBs are better off using Rapid Strikes, but channeled skill just feels disgusting to use, so I'm sure most will keep using SA, and I'm so done with having everything around CC immune in dungeons.

Abysmal sustain? On a Sorc?

If you can sustain a petsorc well, share the secret, I'll pass it on to petsorcs I know. So far you use spell symmetry even on a parse. Share yours (siroria, ms, zaan - no grundwulf, no pfg), show sustain, tell how you did it. Would be awesome.

I've never used my sorc seriously for PVE, and definitely not as a petsorc. I was just shocked to hear you say they struggle — in PVP I can easily run my sorc with at least 25% less sustain than I need on my magblade (probably even less, honestly) and I can also run an Altmer instead of a Breton.

Ah, you mean you're just surprised to hear that sorcs struggle for sustain in PvE because you have different experience in PvP? Well, it's not really surprising. Patterns of play are vastly different in PvE and PvP, different skills, different criteria of success. From experience I can say that I have excellent sustain in PvE as a khajiit magblade.

Offensive wise magblade sustain feels indeed fine to me. It's the defense which always screws me (already pretty weak and extremely expensive on top of that and gets nerfed by 20% because yolo).

From Stam perspective, NB is terrible imo.

There changes to off balance and cool down hit us, NERF to bash damage also indirectly affected us as now it does 80% less DMG, everything breaks cloak, then the change to VEILED that NO ONE asked for; I was happy with the invis SA stun/off balance, now it will proc from flank??( THIS WILL PROC ACCIDENTLY DUE TO THE NATURE OF HOW TERRIBLE PVP PERFORMANCE IS) then mess up your combo burst.

All they had to do was increase to 7m and provide Maj Fract/Breach depending on morph. These guys at ZoS don't have a clue, they don't. I doubt I will play ESO due to these horrendous changes.

The bit affects me most is that they are adding Alliance tokens in the premium store, THE HASSLE ZoS introduced trying to change campaigns month to month is ABBYSMAL. The process of AD to EP from month to month costs 150k AP per character to abandon then 100k AP to apply new character on different alliance. Adding Alliance lock and selling us the fix will never go down well. It's theft (You remove something from base game, then sell me a fix).

TLDR-. This company doesnt know where there game balance is, there more concentrated on selling overpriced DLC, skill animations recycled to the new vampire skill layout, selling us convenience in the form of alliance swap tokens after they added alliance lock even though most players didn't want it, nor asked for it.

There changes to off balance and cool down hit us, NERF to bash damage also indirectly affected us as now it does 80% less DMG, everything breaks cloak, then the change to VEILED that NO ONE asked for; I was happy with the invis SA stun/off balance, now it will proc from flank??( THIS WILL PROC ACCIDENTLY DUE TO THE NATURE OF HOW TERRIBLE PVP PERFORMANCE IS) then mess up your combo burst.

All they had to do was increase to 7m and provide Maj Fract/Breach depending on morph. These guys at ZoS don't have a clue, they don't. I doubt I will play ESO due to these horrendous changes.

The bit affects me most is that they are adding Alliance tokens in the premium store, THE HASSLE ZoS introduced trying to change campaigns month to month is ABBYSMAL. The process of AD to EP from month to month costs 150k AP per character to abandon then 100k AP to apply new character on different alliance. Adding Alliance lock and selling us the fix will never go down well. It's theft (You remove something from base game, then sell me a fix).

TLDR-. This company doesnt know where there game balance is, there more concentrated on selling overpriced DLC, skill animations recycled to the new vampire skill layout, selling us convenience in the form of alliance swap tokens after they added alliance lock even though most players didn't want it, nor asked for it.

Major breach debuff along with major resolve/ward buff was too much to have on spammable. (btw 7m on melee skill? That seems like ranged to me)

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You have some bias agaisnt magsorc.

If you can not land a spectral bow after an incap/Veiled strike stun on a decent player, there is no way you will land a frag after a streak.

Because streak has an end animation, need a 180° turn, then you have minimum frag travel time + actual frag travel time.

If you could land a frag when the ennemy is stunned you would be in a summerset situation, which is not the case.

For meteor burst, the situation is the same, the ennemy the eat the meteor or the frag, not both. If you time well, they will take the meteor which deal like 10-15% more damage than a frag.

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Langeston wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

There changes to off balance and cool down hit us, NERF to bash damage also indirectly affected us as now it does 80% less DMG, everything breaks cloak, then the change to VEILED that NO ONE asked for; I was happy with the invis SA stun/off balance, now it will proc from flank??( THIS WILL PROC ACCIDENTLY DUE TO THE NATURE OF HOW TERRIBLE PVP PERFORMANCE IS) then mess up your combo burst.

All they had to do was increase to 7m and provide Maj Fract/Breach depending on morph. These guys at ZoS don't have a clue, they don't. I doubt I will play ESO due to these horrendous changes.

The bit affects me most is that they are adding Alliance tokens in the premium store, THE HASSLE ZoS introduced trying to change campaigns month to month is ABBYSMAL. The process of AD to EP from month to month costs 150k AP per character to abandon then 100k AP to apply new character on different alliance. Adding Alliance lock and selling us the fix will never go down well. It's theft (You remove something from base game, then sell me a fix).

TLDR-. This company doesnt know where there game balance is, there more concentrated on selling overpriced DLC, skill animations recycled to the new vampire skill layout, selling us convenience in the form of alliance swap tokens after they added alliance lock even though most players didn't want it, nor asked for it.

Major breach debuff along with major resolve/ward buff was too much to have on spammable. (btw 7m on melee skill? That seems like ranged to me)

Seriously? Well I guess that answers whether or not you've played anything besides magsorc, lol.

5m seems to be the Zenimax magicka single target melee range standart.

They did the same thing with the vampire spammable.

This is pretty bad, the minimum range should be 7m on all abilities.

Aedaryl wrote: »

You have some bias agaisnt magsorc.

If you can not land a spectral bow after an incap/Veiled strike stun on a decent player, there is no way you will land a frag after a streak.

Because streak has an end animation, need a 180° turn, then you have minimum frag travel time + actual frag travel time.

If you could land a frag when the ennemy is stunned you would be in a summerset situation, which is not the case.

For meteor burst, the situation is the same, the ennemy the eat the meteor or the frag, not both. If you time well, they will take the meteor which deal like 10-15% more damage than a frag.

Honestly, the only bias I have against magsorcs as a class is that ZOS seems to feel that they need training wheels (relatively speaking) while at the same time being perfectly fine leaving Magblades to twist in the wind. (I have similar feelings towards other classes to varying degrees — templars are definitely up there, DKs & Wardens as well — magblades are just in a God-awful state compared to everything. NBs were supposed to be the "high risk/high reward" class. The class with a high skill floor, but offset by a high skill ceiling. But even within the last year the ceiling has gotten lower and the floor has gotten higher — while at the same time the exact opposite has occurred with all/most of the other classes.

It isn't something you can fully understand until you've experienced it, but think about how you feel when you're playing against a Stamcro or whatever and it's someone you know you're better than, but you can't beat them simply because of the class/spec they're playing. It's frustrating, isn't it? Well try to imagine what it'd be like if literally every class and spec in the game is is stronger than yours (some of them in a completely different stratosphere.) It's nearly impossible to even determine where you stand relative to other players when there's imbalance like that — you honestly have no concept of how good (or bad) you (or they) are because the limiting factor of how well you do is something that is completely outside your control. And then to top it all off, these players complain about how "weak" their class is, when it's light still years ahead of yours.

Try rolling a magblade sometime and see for yourself. I suspect you'll view conversations like this in a completely different light.

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Xologamer wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Now that we got an instant skill with high damage and a CC and even a good debuff.

Can we finally get this for all other specs too?
Revert all those changes taking CCs out of the game.
Dizzying swing, master clench the list goes on and on.
There's other skills which would highly benefit from an instant CC, looking at poop stomp.

Don't let this be a one time change

i still think this new stun on suprice atack is a debuff
it will jsut random stun and this is useless u need to controll when u stun if u cant do that anylonger its a huge nerf

This is the way I see it as well. We'll have to wait and see I guess, but I suspect that all of the NBs that are excited about this will quickly change their minds as soon as they start giving away CC immunity when they're not ready to burst, and all the people that don't play NB will still complain about it anyway and SA/CW will probably get nerfed into a state worse than they're in now.

Who knows though, I could be completely mistaken.

BohnT2 wrote: »

i shouldn't have to explain this, i really shouldn't have to explain this.

Streak doesn't let you hit frags+curse+meteor, rune cage lets you do that and that's where it became overpowered.

You really should not explain this, b/c it does!

With a little bit of practice you can look right at your target at the end of the streak and have CFrag hit the target the same time meteor does, while curse and execute are already on the target.

And again I ask, where is the outcry?

Aedaryl wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

i shouldn't have to explain this, i really shouldn't have to explain this.

Streak doesn't let you hit frags+curse+meteor, rune cage lets you do that and that's where it became overpowered.

You really should not explain this, b/c it does!

With a little bit of practice you can look right at your target at the end of the streak and have CFrag hit the target the same time meteor does, while curse and execute are already on the target.

And again I ask, where is the outcry?

You cannot do it while having the enemy stunned. You either guarantee the meteor by streaking very just before it hit, then by the time the frag can hit, the enemy has break free + block/dodge.

If your frag touched while the enemy is still stunned, they either lag or are that "low apm" kind of people.

I think it's kind of a moot point. The whole reason NBs got saddled with these ridiculous cast times is because ZOS didn't want people being bombarded by 3+ skills within the same global cooldown. What you guys are talking about is four high damage abilities landing at the exact same time. If that were possible it would be an obscene double standard on the part of ZOS . Yes, I know they have plenty of double standards — but this would be ridiculous.

Aedaryl wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

i shouldn't have to explain this, i really shouldn't have to explain this.

Streak doesn't let you hit frags+curse+meteor, rune cage lets you do that and that's where it became overpowered.

You really should not explain this, b/c it does!

With a little bit of practice you can look right at your target at the end of the streak and have CFrag hit the target the same time meteor does, while curse and execute are already on the target.

And again I ask, where is the outcry?

You cannot do it while having the enemy stunned. You either guarantee the meteor by streaking very just before it hit, then by the time the frag can hit, the enemy has break free + block/dodge.

If your frag touched while the enemy is still stunned, they either lag or are that "low apm" kind of people.

I think it's kind of a moot point. The whole reason NBs got saddled with these ridiculous cast times is because ZOS didn't want people being bombarded by 3+ skills within the same global cooldown. What you guys are talking about is four high damage abilities landing at the exact same time. If that were possible it would be an obscene double standard on the part of ZOS . Yes, I know they have plenty of double standards — but this would be ridiculous.

The reason I started explaining it was because you complained about NB not being able to land bow + incap consistently and spoke about streak and meteor. Which was a bad example.

Of course having too much abilities being part of a single GCD should not happen.

But make a bow consistently hit with an incap would be OP like having a frag being consitently hit after a stun.

If you want your magblade being playable again, a good way would be to ask for shield reduce cost, so you would be able to sustain you defense.

I'm pretty sure I was talking about how it's difficult to land Merciless OR Soul Harvest. Landing them both within the same GCD is impossible — even if your opponent is AFK. A sorc can still land Curse/Frags/Wrath within one GCD (and I've even been seeing some throwing Inevitable Detonation in there as well.)

As for streak/meteor, I think you may be thinking of someone else. As far I can remember, I never mentioned them aside from saying I think Streak is one of the best stuns in the game due to how many other mechanics it covers.