Suprise attack and CCs

BohnT2

Now that we got an instant skill with high damage and a CC and even a good debuff.

Can we finally get this for all other specs too?
Revert all those changes taking CCs out of the game.
Dizzying swing, master clench the list goes on and on.
There's other skills which would highly benefit from an instant CC, looking at poop stomp.

Don't let this be a one time change

ku5h

#bringbackfragstun

Oathunbound

It is a nerf not a buff. Before it was a spammable that could be used into a combo for a burst against a single target, now that combo is gone and now we need to rely on positioning to get the stun. On paper it sounds better but the fact the sever desyncs are massive there will be moments when the stun will proc when we don't want it to and othertimes where we would want it to only to fail because of sever lag, honestly this a totally unneeded "soultion" to bug/new feature? With cloak being able to be broken by a charged heavy single target attack. I'd rather keep it the way it was so i could have an additional cc option

Mortiis13

I don't think a cc should be attached to "spam" skills.
There is zero tactical play in larger groups as everyone and their mother and grandpa's are stun immune cause of this.

They should take every stun from a spamskill and revamp existing stun skills with real offensiv or defensive power.

For example:

"Single target stun" ; increase dmg for x amount for x seconds then target is stunned.

"Aoe stun" ; reduce dmg for x amount for x sec then target breaks free.

Kolzki

I'm not sure what to make of this change for pve. Off balance is cool but setting adds on cc cooldown will make tanks mad.

On the other hand, I've decided that a pve stamblade running rapid strikes is basically a stam sorc with different graphics. My stamblade main became a magblade last weekend so my opinion means nothing.

Oathunbound

Mortiis13 wrote: »

I don't think a cc should be attached to "spam" skills.
There is zero tactical play in larger groups as everyone and their mother and grandpa's are stun immune cause of this.

They should take every stun from a spamskill and revamp existing stun skills with real offensiv or defensive power.

For example:

"Single target stun" ; increase dmg for x amount for x seconds then target is stunned.

"Aoe stun" ; reduce dmg for x amount for x sec then target breaks free.

This.

The CC before was tied to a specific condition of being stealthed or invis. Now i worry that i will blow my burst by stunning to early and granting them cc immunity. Dizzy swing is a whole other can o worms but again i agree that spammables shouldn't have a stun attached unless it has a unique way of triggering the stun

Oathunbound

Kolzki wrote: »

I'm not sure what to make of this change for pve. Off balance is cool but setting adds on cc cooldown will make tanks mad.

On the other hand, I've decided that a pve stamblade running rapid strikes is basically a stam sorc with different graphics. My stamblade main became a magblade last weekend so my opinion means nothing.

I forgot about pve lol, yea this throws yet another factor into the off balance madness. I honestly hope they give up on trying to make meaningful gameplay with off balance and just make it its own unique damage boost with a cooldown.

Kalante

I don't like that cc stun attached to surprised attack. It totally negates well timed burst combos. WTF ZOOOOSSSSSSSSSS. We are now back to incap strike silence all over again but this time is even worse because now we have to worry about unnecessarily CC'ing somebody by something that we practically spam 100% of the time. This dumbs down the brawler nightblade play style.

Who comes up with these changes... Just give us back major fracture back to surprise attack like how used to be for four years. There I just saved you money and hours of useless nightblade theory crafting. Ive mained the stam nb for over 300 days. This class needs the most disciplined burst timing out of all classes adding CC to veil strike stam morph you just neuter brawler stamina nighblades. Yay for gankers because you can cc them but its not good for brawling.

daemonor

Sounds like another reason to hate having nbs on your BG team. Besides someone messing up your big boy talons or fosilize root by casting crippling grasp there will be another option. As if some noob dragonknights with chains messing up proper stuns wasnt enough...

Cuddler

Positional CC is bad given the current game performance. ZOS should instead change the skill as follows:

"... If cast within 3 seconds after Shadow Cloak, stuns and sets the target off-balance for 3 seconds."

This way, Cloak would still be required for the stun, but remaining invisible would not. The HA+SA combo would essentially work the way it does on Live.

Kalante

daemonor wrote: »

Sounds like another reason to hate having nbs on your BG team. Besides someone messing up your big boy talons or fosilize root by casting crippling grasp there will be another option. As if some noob dragonknights with chains messing up proper stuns wasnt enough...

Yeah its like that one noob spamming CC's and destroying the dynamic of a group. Who is gonna want a stam nb in a group? they don't have any synergy already to begin with and now zos adds this horrible change of wasting people's CC. I don't play in a group but I can see that.

Ragnaroek93

Kalante wrote: »

I don't like that cc stun attached to surprised attack. It totally negates well timed burst combos. WTF ZOOOOSSSSSSSSSS. We are now back to incap strike silence all over again but this time is even worse because now we have to worry about unnecessarily CC'ing somebody by something that we practically spam 100% of the time. This dumbs down the brawler nightblade play style.

Who comes up with these changes... Just give us back major fracture back to surprise attack like how used to be for four years. There I just saved you money and hours of useless nightblade theory crafting. Ive mained the stam nb for over 300 days. This class needs the most disciplined burst timing out of all classes adding CC to veil strike stam morph you just neuter brawler stamina nighblades. Yay for gankers because you can cc them but its not good for brawling.

I disagree. Having a stun on your anytimer is extremely powerful and I prefer this version against good players any day. Playing around setting up a burst combo without any passive pressure isn't viable (especially not since Incap has a cast time and grim focus a min travel time) and has never been good against good players. Nb is bad right now because it doesn't have any pressure (no defile and you can't pressure opponents anymore because Incap isn't a threat with a cast time).

Deathlord92

I feel like the stun would be better on ambush having it on surprise attack could mess up the skill rotation I’m also seeing it being good to definitely needs testing on pts.

nublife01

its a nerf. it makes our class much clunky'er. honestly though it seems ZOS is trying to buff nightblade we just have to make sure that they do in the right way. ZOS just put major fracture back on the ability. if you really want make it only apply when behind/on flank of target. repurpose mark for death so that it is a damage debuff on the target to make us tankier in 1v1 and help out in group play so that we can run bgs. literally all you have to do is make those two changes and revert the current change to veiled strike and nightblade is back in the game a little bit and viable in bgs where it hasnt been for an eon. if youre reading this ZOS i have played this class since beta and know the ins and outs of it you gotta trust me this is the best change possible.

Cinbri

So zos nerfed spammables previously coz they should not be "onebutton play" spammable+stun, and then went against their new rule and made spammable with stun...

Ragnaroek93

Deathlord92 wrote: »

I feel like the stun would be better on ambush having it on surprise attack could mess up the skill rotation I’m also seeing it being good to definitely needs testing on pts.

Please not, ambush is super clunky, telegraphed, you can get easily punished for using it (can't block while using it), makes you predictable and I don't have a skill slot for it. I already hate that minor vuln is on it, I'd much rather have that debuff on something else. Since Grim Focus/Incap can be dodged now even if you use them right after a CC I think that a stun on our anytimer is a good thing for the class.

MusCanus

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

doing pressure by draining ressources with dodge

It is golden. Pressuring itself, you mean? Ok, I was playing NB all wrong, it seems.

Ragnaroek93

MusCanus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

doing pressure by draining ressources with dodge

It is golden. Pressuring itself, you mean? Ok, I was playing NB all wrong, it seems.

Sounds like you were playing a gank build the whole time.

ColoredScreams

I've said it in another thread and I'll say it here again, because it's relevant to the original post.
The only ability in the game that deals high damage, stuns, and off balances with no cast time.
Hitting an enemy "from the flank" is incredibly lenient. Abilities with the same proc condition, such as Camouflaged Hunter, will proc when hitting an enemy from the side. Veiled strike will be incredibly rewarding, this goes against their previously proposed removal of stuns, or adding cast times, to high damage abilities. It does it all plus some (off balance).

Langeston

BohnT2 wrote: »

Now that we got an instant skill with high damage and a CC and even a good debuff.

Can we finally get this for all other specs too?
Revert all those changes taking CCs out of the game.
Dizzying swing, master clench the list goes on and on.
There's other skills which would highly benefit from an instant CC, looking at poop stomp.

Don't let this be a one time change

I hate to break it to you, but to anyone that actually plays NBs this isn't a buff — it's a [pretty substantial] nerf.

Czekoludek

ColoredScreams wrote: »

I've said it in another thread and I'll say it here again, because it's relevant to the original post.
The only ability in the game that deals high damage, stuns, and off balances with no cast time.
Hitting an enemy "from the flank" is incredibly lenient. Abilities with the same proc condition, such as Camouflaged Hunter, will proc when hitting an enemy from the side. Veiled strike will be incredibly rewarding, this goes against their previously proposed removal of stuns, or adding cast times, to high damage abilities. It does it all plus some (off balance).

They changed condition from one that could be controlled and used to line up burst to basically have it on cooldown that will make nb burst combo even harder to perform. Also all nb gankers used heavy attack to have more burst on opening from invis, now it is gone. They nerfed the class for every spec that use this skill, every nb main will tell you that. What is your main class? Because I'm 100% sure it isn't nb

Ragnaroek93

Czekoludek wrote: »

ColoredScreams wrote: »

I've said it in another thread and I'll say it here again, because it's relevant to the original post.
The only ability in the game that deals high damage, stuns, and off balances with no cast time.
Hitting an enemy "from the flank" is incredibly lenient. Abilities with the same proc condition, such as Camouflaged Hunter, will proc when hitting an enemy from the side. Veiled strike will be incredibly rewarding, this goes against their previously proposed removal of stuns, or adding cast times, to high damage abilities. It does it all plus some (off balance).

They changed condition from one that could be controlled and used to line up burst to basically have it on cooldown that will make nb burst combo even harder to perform. Also all nb gankers used heavy attack to have more burst on opening from invis, now it is gone. They nerfed the class for every spec that use this skill, every nb main will tell you that. What is your main class? Because I'm 100% sure it isn't nb

I would agree if there wouldn't be a cast time on Incap and a min travel time on Grim Focus. Cloak into surprise attack stun into Incap worked extremely well before they added a cast time. However with that cast time people just break free and dodge the Incap and therefore the combo is completely useless. Lining up burst on Nightblade in these days is a meme and for the current iteration of Nb a stun on their anytimer is actually helpful (disruptive for the opponent to play against and you don't have to waste an additional global cooldown for a CC and a skillslot).

If you think that this is a nerf then you should ask veteran magsorc players how they feel about the removal of their frag stun.

SshadowSscale

Fragstun could at least be controlled because frags is not a spamable..... And if you are out there spamming crystal frags you are hurting yourself a lot..... Stun in frags workes because when it proced sorc had 10 seconds to decide when they want to cast frags to get damage+stun unlike new veiled wich is a spamable meaning its hard to controll when you'r stun will land and I do not think nightblade should settle for clunky gameplay as a "buff" but instead point out the clunkyness to get something that can be used in a more controlled way..... This is basickly necro before blastbones fix..... Necro was considered worst of the worst... Yes they had some stuff going but with blastbones nevet doing what it is supposed to people did not complain about aoe major defile+high damage because it was clunky and unreliable and as soon as zos fixed it stamcro became a monster because blastbones was not clunky anymore...... Veiledstrike as it is on pts is super clunky and unreliable and the lag on live server will ruin it even more..... What you are asking is that nb settle for clunky gameplay wich no class should have to deal with because it is not fun...... Yet you are fine with clunky gameplay for nb..... Remove this clunky weirdness from veiled strike zos and instead remove thr cast time on incap

Langeston

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

ColoredScreams wrote: »

I've said it in another thread and I'll say it here again, because it's relevant to the original post.
The only ability in the game that deals high damage, stuns, and off balances with no cast time.
Hitting an enemy "from the flank" is incredibly lenient. Abilities with the same proc condition, such as Camouflaged Hunter, will proc when hitting an enemy from the side. Veiled strike will be incredibly rewarding, this goes against their previously proposed removal of stuns, or adding cast times, to high damage abilities. It does it all plus some (off balance).

They changed condition from one that could be controlled and used to line up burst to basically have it on cooldown that will make nb burst combo even harder to perform. Also all nb gankers used heavy attack to have more burst on opening from invis, now it is gone. They nerfed the class for every spec that use this skill, every nb main will tell you that. What is your main class? Because I'm 100% sure it isn't nb

If you think that this is a nerf then you should ask veteran magsorc players how they feel about the removal of their frag stun.

Telling the most over-nerfed class in the game "oh, but think of the magsorcs" is not likely to elicit the response you think. These "veteran magsorcs" you speak of have had the luxury of their class being at or near the top for the entire time they've played the class — considering the fact that ZOS has spent more than a year completely gutting the NB toolkit, I doubt most NBs really care how they felt.

NyassaV

This skill isn't high damage... It's a spammable and it requires you to be behind someone.

Ragnaroek93

Langeston wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

ColoredScreams wrote: »

I've said it in another thread and I'll say it here again, because it's relevant to the original post.
The only ability in the game that deals high damage, stuns, and off balances with no cast time.
Hitting an enemy "from the flank" is incredibly lenient. Abilities with the same proc condition, such as Camouflaged Hunter, will proc when hitting an enemy from the side. Veiled strike will be incredibly rewarding, this goes against their previously proposed removal of stuns, or adding cast times, to high damage abilities. It does it all plus some (off balance).

They changed condition from one that could be controlled and used to line up burst to basically have it on cooldown that will make nb burst combo even harder to perform. Also all nb gankers used heavy attack to have more burst on opening from invis, now it is gone. They nerfed the class for every spec that use this skill, every nb main will tell you that. What is your main class? Because I'm 100% sure it isn't nb

If you think that this is a nerf then you should ask veteran magsorc players how they feel about the removal of their frag stun.

Telling the most over-nerfed class in the game "oh, but think of the magsorcs" is not likely to elicit the response you think. These "veteran magsorcs" you speak of have had the luxury of their class being at or near the top for the entire time they've played the class — considering the fact that ZOS has spent more than a year completely gutting the NB toolkit, I doubt most NBs really care how they felt.

Magsorcs also had times in which they weren't good. That wasn't the point tho. My point is that having a reliable CC on your spammable (I expect it to be reliable considering how easily I proc camo hunter) is strong. Right now I'd have to use Cloak to stun my opponent (and if he's smart, he'll just block when I use Cloak offensively) or waste a skill slot for fear or that fighters guild skill. Latter one costs me ressources, a global cooldown and the biggest problem is that it doesn't guarantee me a hit with Incap or Grim Focus afterwards because both abilities are so slow that you can break free in time and dodgeroll/block (so you basically waste a global cooldown and ressources to force a break free and nothing more). Therefore getting a stun which is just there on my spammable is a buff for me.

And my main is a stamblade (you can probably tell if you read my posts) and I have barely played since they added a cast time. I completely agree that the class was totally overnerfed (I haven't seen the class to be in such a weak spot as it is on Greymoor PTR, not even close tbh) and I don't think that this buff will be enough (Cloak needs bugfixes, healing nerf needs to be reverted and targeted on stamcro and stamden only and magblade needs a buff too) but it's at least better than the sh*t which we currently have. At least I can start making "complete" builds again with the skill slot which I get by this change.

SshadowSscale

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Czekoludek wrote: »

ColoredScreams wrote: »

I've said it in another thread and I'll say it here again, because it's relevant to the original post.
The only ability in the game that deals high damage, stuns, and off balances with no cast time.
Hitting an enemy "from the flank" is incredibly lenient. Abilities with the same proc condition, such as Camouflaged Hunter, will proc when hitting an enemy from the side. Veiled strike will be incredibly rewarding, this goes against their previously proposed removal of stuns, or adding cast times, to high damage abilities. It does it all plus some (off balance).

They changed condition from one that could be controlled and used to line up burst to basically have it on cooldown that will make nb burst combo even harder to perform. Also all nb gankers used heavy attack to have more burst on opening from invis, now it is gone. They nerfed the class for every spec that use this skill, every nb main will tell you that. What is your main class? Because I'm 100% sure it isn't nb

If you think that this is a nerf then you should ask veteran magsorc players how they feel about the removal of their frag stun.

Telling the most over-nerfed class in the game "oh, but think of the magsorcs" is not likely to elicit the response you think. These "veteran magsorcs" you speak of have had the luxury of their class being at or near the top for the entire time they've played the class — considering the fact that ZOS has spent more than a year completely gutting the NB toolkit, I doubt most NBs really care how they felt.

Magsorcs also had times in which they weren't good. That wasn't the point tho. My point is that having a reliable CC on your spammable (I expect it to be reliable considering how easily I proc camo hunter) is strong. Right now I'd have to use Cloak to stun my opponent (and if he's smart, he'll just block when I use Cloak offensively) or waste a skill slot for fear or that fighters guild skill. Latter one costs me ressources, a global cooldown and the biggest problem is that it doesn't guarantee me a hit with Incap or Grim Focus afterwards because both abilities are so slow that you can break free in time and dodgeroll/block (so you basically waste a global cooldown and ressources to force a break free and nothing more). Therefore getting a stun which is just there on my spammable is a buff for me.

And my main is a stamblade (you can probably tell if you read my posts) and I have barely played since they added a cast time. I completely agree that the class was totally overnerfed (I haven't seen the class to be in such a weak spot as it is on Greymoor PTR, not even close tbh) and I don't think that this buff will be enough (Cloak needs bugfixes, healing nerf needs to be reverted and targeted on stamcro and stamden only and magblade needs a buff too) but it's at least better than the sh*t which we currently have. At least I can start making "complete" builds again with the skill slot which I get by this change.

Crystal frags is not a spamable..... If you are spamming it you are doing it wrong

PhoenixGrey

ku5h wrote: »

#bringbackfragstun

That's not happening.

Conditional CC which can be easily roll dodged or blocked is not really a forum agenda these days as the typical potato on the forum thinks streak is the best cc in the game

Ezorus

It would be better if they put it back on ambush instead

ne.ga.kurai_ESO

[Removed quote]

If ESO is anything like DAoC I'm assuming the rear arc is 60º, the sides are 120º and the front is 60º. That's a 300º arc length to hit the stun. Coming from a DAoC background where almost everything was a positional strike it's much easier than you think even with our potato servers desyncing.

nublife01

anyone here who actually thinks the veiled strike change is actually a buff to nightblade clearly does not play nightblade. like that is the fattest nerf we will have received in a while man. veiled strike is actually used to widdle targets health away not in a medium attack ulti stun combo like dswing is. like basically by the time im going to want to use my burst combo to kill something theyre going to be cc immuned out the butt. this is such a silly change its crazy