Suprise attack and CCs

Rianai

There hasn't been much logic with ZOS' "balance" changes for at least the past 1,5 years so idk why anyone would start to ask for logic now.

Parasaurolophus

John_Falstaff wrote: »

zadrotscrolls wrote: »

I still can’t understand what error the zos are trying to fix? Can you tell me pls?

They fixed the bug where heavy attack wasn't taking the caster from cloak. Now it does.

I never noticed such a bug. Always heavy overturned my cloak.

Derra

Cinbri wrote: »

So zos nerfed spammables previously coz they should not be "onebutton play" spammable+stun, and then went against their new rule and made spammable with stun...

You have to understand - the rules are only for magica.

Decimus

zadrotscrolls wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

zadrotscrolls wrote: »

I still can’t understand what error the zos are trying to fix? Can you tell me pls?

They fixed the bug where heavy attack wasn't taking the caster from cloak. Now it does.

I never noticed such a bug. Always heavy overturned my cloak.

It works with melee heavies only, I made a video about it two years ago: https://youtu.be/DVDPUbNzYFU

Back then weapon glyphs/poison proc would still take you out of invisibility, so part of the video is a bit outdated. They made glyphs/poison procs not break invisibility in Elsweyr.

Derra wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

So zos nerfed spammables previously coz they should not be "onebutton play" spammable+stun, and then went against their new rule and made spammable with stun...

You have to understand - the rules are only for magica.

Really? I guess Concealed Weapon shouldn't get the new stun mechanic then...

Parasaurolophus

Decimus wrote: »

zadrotscrolls wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

zadrotscrolls wrote: »

I still can’t understand what error the zos are trying to fix? Can you tell me pls?

They fixed the bug where heavy attack wasn't taking the caster from cloak. Now it does.

I never noticed such a bug. Always heavy overturned my cloak.

It works with melee heavies only, I made a video about it two years ago: https://youtu.be/DVDPUbNzYFU

Back then weapon glyphs/poison proc would still take you out of invisibility, so part of the video is a bit outdated. They made glyphs/poison procs not break invisibility in Elsweyr.

Derra wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

So zos nerfed spammables previously coz they should not be "onebutton play" spammable+stun, and then went against their new rule and made spammable with stun...

You have to understand - the rules are only for magica.

Really? I guess Concealed Weapon shouldn't get the new stun mechanic then...

Why has this technique been hidden from me for a long time? God ...

Zelos

ku5h wrote: »

#bringbackfragstun

Surprise attack isnt a ranged skill, so no.

Derra

Decimus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

So zos nerfed spammables previously coz they should not be "onebutton play" spammable+stun, and then went against their new rule and made spammable with stun...

You have to understand - the rules are only for magica.

Really? I guess Concealed Weapon shouldn't get the new stun mechanic then...

Admittedly - even though i have 4 nbs of which 3 are magblades. I kinda forgot those existet given the classes treatment the past 24 months.

Derra

Langeston wrote: »

Every magblade playing the game would kill for a skill as powerful and versatile as Streak. Like I said, it would replace 3 skills for me (possibly 4 actually). Unless I'm missing something big, it sure seems to me that you're looking a gift horse in the mouth here.

Streak is one of the skills that seems insanely powerful when you have someone (preferably outnumbering you) using it against you.
When you try to use it as an offensive CC (let alone gapcloser - i can assure you that doesn´t work reliably) against anyone semi competent you realize where it falls short and why.

Streak is a terrible offensive cc for your own offense.
Streak is also a strong defensive cc.
The cost increase makes it prohibitive to use offensively (the offensive stun area is smaller than the defensive one).
The dmg is pitiful at best.
It doesn´t allow you to force any ability except meteor to hit (with meteor generally being a meh ultimate and nobody dying to meteor + curse alone).
To use it you´re forced into a combat situation where you generally do not want to be as a sorc - melee.

So why is it that so many ppl use streak instead of ball of lightning - despite virtually every experienced sorc player saying the latter is the stronger morph and advocating for it to be nerfed alongside matriarch?
Reason 1: Barspace. You can´t really fit a dedicated CC that competes with eledrain or matriarch.
Reason 2: Available CC alternatives. There aren´t really any. Cage is absolutely useless and clench has the same range as streak.

That´s where you get the dissonance in feedback over streak from.
Sorc players generally complain about it being a lackluster offensive CC for themselves.
Players fighting sorcs generally complain about it being a very potent defensive cc or enabling OTHER players than the sorc to hit them.

Ironically both are right with their complaints. Bolt escape and morphs aren´t very well balanced.

ZOS_FalcoYamaoka

Greetings,
We had to remove some posts due to violating our rules involving baiting and bashing. Please keep your posts constructive and civil. If you have any questions about the actions being taken, please take a moment to review our community rules here.

ne.ga.kurai_ESO

Decimus wrote: »

I'm sorry if you have problems with nightblades, but these changes are perfectly in line with game balance and having a class other than templar use something else than Dizzying Swing as spammable isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I would actually love if they kept going with this. Make positional requirements the class identity. The buffs to the class would basically be limitless. Could fix group utility, defenses, increase damage under conditions that don't make people break their keyboards. Tweak the passives to do this like buffing non-class abilities. Boom... class is unique and un-***.


- Surprise Attack hits from flank >> turn 'Killer's Blade' into 'Creeping Death'; make it undodgeable/unblockable/ 10s 9m AOE Disorient (mez)
- Relentless Focus hits from flank >> bounce to three targets or give entire group 60s of 10% mitigation
- Incap hits from flank >> Major Defile
- Shade hits from flank >> Minor Main
- Ambush hits from flank >> Snare

Langeston

ne.ga.kurai_ESO wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

I'm sorry if you have problems with nightblades, but these changes are perfectly in line with game balance and having a class other than templar use something else than Dizzying Swing as spammable isn't necessarily a bad thing.

I would actually love if they kept going with this. Make positional requirements the class identity. The buffs to the class would basically be limitless. Could fix group utility, defenses, increase damage under conditions that don't make people break their keyboards. Tweak the passives to do this like buffing non-class abilities. Boom... class is unique and un-***.


- Surprise Attack hits from flank >> turn 'Killer's Blade' into 'Creeping Death'; make it undodgeable/unblockable/ 10s 9m AOE Disorient (mez)
- Relentless Focus hits from flank >> bounce to three targets or give entire group 60s of 10% mitigation
- Incap hits from flank >> Major Defile
- Shade hits from flank >> Minor Main
- Ambush hits from flank >> Snare

That would definitely be interesting.

Vevvev

Decimus wrote: »

Stonefist on the other hand deals the same damage as Surprise Attack, but also has a 28m range (which makes applying the stun quite a lot easier). It also doesn't require you to flank your target.

Stonefist got nerffed not long ago when they turned it into a stamina ability, lowered the range, and made it a stamina spammable. It applies a stack of stagger on each hit which lasts 2.5 seconds, and after 3 stacks are achieved it stuns the target for 2.5 seconds. Its range is now 15 meters and costs 3443 stamina to use at base.

PhoenixGrey

Derra wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Every magblade playing the game would kill for a skill as powerful and versatile as Streak. Like I said, it would replace 3 skills for me (possibly 4 actually). Unless I'm missing something big, it sure seems to me that you're looking a gift horse in the mouth here.

Streak is one of the skills that seems insanely powerful when you have someone (preferably outnumbering you) using it against you.
When you try to use it as an offensive CC (let alone gapcloser - i can assure you that doesn´t work reliably) against anyone semi competent you realize where it falls short and why.

Streak is a terrible offensive cc for your own offense.
Streak is also a strong defensive cc.
The cost increase makes it prohibitive to use offensively (the offensive stun area is smaller than the defensive one).
The dmg is pitiful at best.
It doesn´t allow you to force any ability except meteor to hit (with meteor generally being a meh ultimate and nobody dying to meteor + curse alone).
To use it you´re forced into a combat situation where you generally do not want to be as a sorc - melee.

So why is it that so many ppl use streak instead of ball of lightning - despite virtually every experienced sorc player saying the latter is the stronger morph and advocating for it to be nerfed alongside matriarch?
Reason 1: Barspace. You can´t really fit a dedicated CC that competes with eledrain or matriarch.
Reason 2: Available CC alternatives. There aren´t really any. Cage is absolutely useless and clench has the same range as streak.

That´s where you get the dissonance in feedback over streak from.
Sorc players generally complain about it being a lackluster offensive CC for themselves.
Players fighting sorcs generally complain about it being a very potent defensive cc or enabling OTHER players than the sorc to hit them.

Ironically both are right with their complaints. Bolt escape and morphs aren´t very well balanced.

I would take back frag cc anyday rather than streak

I agree with all your points but as always most wouldn't have a faintest idea on what you are talking about as either they don't actually play sorc or have only used steak cc to zerg down someone else.

BOL although OP is a necessary evil though and much needed for solo open world as the other morph is mostly for duels/ group / zerg style pvp

Langeston

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

I would take back frag cc anyday rather than streak

I agree with all your points but as always most wouldn't have a faintest idea on what you are talking about as either they don't actually play sorc or have only used steak cc to zerg down someone else.

BOL although OP is a necessary evil though and much needed for solo open world as the other morph is mostly for duels/ group / zerg style pvp

With all due respect, if what you say were true it would be backed up by people actually using BOL instead of Streak — since that's not the case, your claim is about as believable as a magplar complaining about Toppling Charge and Puncturing Sweep.

Also, the condescension is unnecessary — magsorc isn't a particularly complicated class.

PhoenixGrey

Langeston wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

I would take back frag cc anyday rather than streak

I agree with all your points but as always most wouldn't have a faintest idea on what you are talking about as either they don't actually play sorc or have only used steak cc to zerg down someone else.

BOL although OP is a necessary evil though and much needed for solo open world as the other morph is mostly for duels/ group / zerg style pvp

With all due respect, if what you say were true it would be backed up by people actually using BOL instead of Streak — since that's not the case, your claim is about as believable as a magplar complaining about Toppling Charge and Puncturing Sweep.

Also, the condescension is unnecessary — magsorc isn't a particularly complicated class.

BOL is useful for solo PVP so obviously you would not find many players using it.

Galarthor

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Every magblade playing the game would kill for a skill as powerful and versatile as Streak. Like I said, it would replace 3 skills for me (possibly 4 actually). Unless I'm missing something big, it sure seems to me that you're looking a gift horse in the mouth here.

Streak is one of the skills that seems insanely powerful when you have someone (preferably outnumbering you) using it against you.
When you try to use it as an offensive CC (let alone gapcloser - i can assure you that doesn´t work reliably) against anyone semi competent you realize where it falls short and why.

Streak is a terrible offensive cc for your own offense.
Streak is also a strong defensive cc.
The cost increase makes it prohibitive to use offensively (the offensive stun area is smaller than the defensive one).
The dmg is pitiful at best.
It doesn´t allow you to force any ability except meteor to hit (with meteor generally being a meh ultimate and nobody dying to meteor + curse alone).
To use it you´re forced into a combat situation where you generally do not want to be as a sorc - melee.

So why is it that so many ppl use streak instead of ball of lightning - despite virtually every experienced sorc player saying the latter is the stronger morph and advocating for it to be nerfed alongside matriarch?
Reason 1: Barspace. You can´t really fit a dedicated CC that competes with eledrain or matriarch.
Reason 2: Available CC alternatives. There aren´t really any. Cage is absolutely useless and clench has the same range as streak.

That´s where you get the dissonance in feedback over streak from.
Sorc players generally complain about it being a lackluster offensive CC for themselves.
Players fighting sorcs generally complain about it being a very potent defensive cc or enabling OTHER players than the sorc to hit them.

Ironically both are right with their complaints. Bolt escape and morphs aren´t very well balanced.

I would take back frag cc anyday rather than streak

I agree with all your points but as always most wouldn't have a faintest idea on what you are talking about as either they don't actually play sorc or have only used steak cc to zerg down someone else.

BOL although OP is a necessary evil though and much needed for solo open world as the other morph is mostly for duels/ group / zerg style pvp

Frag CC is not the solution. In most circumstances it is worse than streak. It can be dodged & block, has a quite visible telegraph and a minimum travling time. Streaks AoE even helps you against cloakers.

The only really viable solution is to make Rune Cage viable again. And that can only happen if it is undodgeable and unblockable as the delay and huge telegraph make it far too easy to avoid. I keep telling ZOS that. But no, an unavoidable AoE stun on a gap opener / gap closer / AoE effect seems far more balanced in their eyes.

Current Streak sucks for everybody involved. @Derra pretty much said it all.

Besides that, @ZOS adding a CC to a spammable after preaching for years how damage and CC should not exist on the same ability is a really bad move. First you spent countless updates nerfing abilities only to start adding it back again after you are finally done ... And with only 1 class getting it, where is the balance in that?!

BohnT2

Galarthor wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Every magblade playing the game would kill for a skill as powerful and versatile as Streak. Like I said, it would replace 3 skills for me (possibly 4 actually). Unless I'm missing something big, it sure seems to me that you're looking a gift horse in the mouth here.

Streak is one of the skills that seems insanely powerful when you have someone (preferably outnumbering you) using it against you.
When you try to use it as an offensive CC (let alone gapcloser - i can assure you that doesn´t work reliably) against anyone semi competent you realize where it falls short and why.

Streak is a terrible offensive cc for your own offense.
Streak is also a strong defensive cc.
The cost increase makes it prohibitive to use offensively (the offensive stun area is smaller than the defensive one).
The dmg is pitiful at best.
It doesn´t allow you to force any ability except meteor to hit (with meteor generally being a meh ultimate and nobody dying to meteor + curse alone).
To use it you´re forced into a combat situation where you generally do not want to be as a sorc - melee.

So why is it that so many ppl use streak instead of ball of lightning - despite virtually every experienced sorc player saying the latter is the stronger morph and advocating for it to be nerfed alongside matriarch?
Reason 1: Barspace. You can´t really fit a dedicated CC that competes with eledrain or matriarch.
Reason 2: Available CC alternatives. There aren´t really any. Cage is absolutely useless and clench has the same range as streak.

That´s where you get the dissonance in feedback over streak from.
Sorc players generally complain about it being a lackluster offensive CC for themselves.
Players fighting sorcs generally complain about it being a very potent defensive cc or enabling OTHER players than the sorc to hit them.

Ironically both are right with their complaints. Bolt escape and morphs aren´t very well balanced.

I would take back frag cc anyday rather than streak

I agree with all your points but as always most wouldn't have a faintest idea on what you are talking about as either they don't actually play sorc or have only used steak cc to zerg down someone else.

BOL although OP is a necessary evil though and much needed for solo open world as the other morph is mostly for duels/ group / zerg style pvp

Frag CC is not the solution. In most circumstances it is worse than streak. It can be dodged & block, has a quite visible telegraph and a minimum travling time. Streaks AoE even helps you against cloakers.

The only really viable solution is to make Rune Cage viable again. And that can only happen if it is undodgeable and unblockable as the delay and huge telegraph make it far too easy to avoid. I keep telling ZOS that. But no, an unavoidable AoE stun on a gap opener / gap closer / AoE effect seems far more balanced in their eyes.

Current Streak sucks for everybody involved. @Derra pretty much said it all.

Besides that, @ZOS adding a CC to a spammable after preaching for years how damage and CC should not exist on the same ability is a really bad move. First you spent countless updates nerfing abilities only to start adding it back again after you are finally done ... And with only 1 class getting it, where is the balance in that?!

Summerset has proven that an unavoidable stun that lets you combo stuff into it is broken on sorc, there's no point discussing this any further

Galarthor

BohnT2 wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Every magblade playing the game would kill for a skill as powerful and versatile as Streak. Like I said, it would replace 3 skills for me (possibly 4 actually). Unless I'm missing something big, it sure seems to me that you're looking a gift horse in the mouth here.

Streak is one of the skills that seems insanely powerful when you have someone (preferably outnumbering you) using it against you.
When you try to use it as an offensive CC (let alone gapcloser - i can assure you that doesn´t work reliably) against anyone semi competent you realize where it falls short and why.

Streak is a terrible offensive cc for your own offense.
Streak is also a strong defensive cc.
The cost increase makes it prohibitive to use offensively (the offensive stun area is smaller than the defensive one).
The dmg is pitiful at best.
It doesn´t allow you to force any ability except meteor to hit (with meteor generally being a meh ultimate and nobody dying to meteor + curse alone).
To use it you´re forced into a combat situation where you generally do not want to be as a sorc - melee.

So why is it that so many ppl use streak instead of ball of lightning - despite virtually every experienced sorc player saying the latter is the stronger morph and advocating for it to be nerfed alongside matriarch?
Reason 1: Barspace. You can´t really fit a dedicated CC that competes with eledrain or matriarch.
Reason 2: Available CC alternatives. There aren´t really any. Cage is absolutely useless and clench has the same range as streak.

That´s where you get the dissonance in feedback over streak from.
Sorc players generally complain about it being a lackluster offensive CC for themselves.
Players fighting sorcs generally complain about it being a very potent defensive cc or enabling OTHER players than the sorc to hit them.

Ironically both are right with their complaints. Bolt escape and morphs aren´t very well balanced.

I would take back frag cc anyday rather than streak

I agree with all your points but as always most wouldn't have a faintest idea on what you are talking about as either they don't actually play sorc or have only used steak cc to zerg down someone else.

BOL although OP is a necessary evil though and much needed for solo open world as the other morph is mostly for duels/ group / zerg style pvp

Frag CC is not the solution. In most circumstances it is worse than streak. It can be dodged & block, has a quite visible telegraph and a minimum travling time. Streaks AoE even helps you against cloakers.

The only really viable solution is to make Rune Cage viable again. And that can only happen if it is undodgeable and unblockable as the delay and huge telegraph make it far too easy to avoid. I keep telling ZOS that. But no, an unavoidable AoE stun on a gap opener / gap closer / AoE effect seems far more balanced in their eyes.

Current Streak sucks for everybody involved. @Derra pretty much said it all.

Besides that, @ZOS adding a CC to a spammable after preaching for years how damage and CC should not exist on the same ability is a really bad move. First you spent countless updates nerfing abilities only to start adding it back again after you are finally done ... And with only 1 class getting it, where is the balance in that?!

Summerset has proven that an unavoidable stun that let's you combo stuff into it is broken on sorc, there's no point discussing this any further

Oh yeah? Streak is pretty much unavoidable in the meteor combo. Where is the outcry over noob sorcs easily killing everything? How come stamcros are at the top of the food chain?

BohnT2

Galarthor wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Every magblade playing the game would kill for a skill as powerful and versatile as Streak. Like I said, it would replace 3 skills for me (possibly 4 actually). Unless I'm missing something big, it sure seems to me that you're looking a gift horse in the mouth here.

Streak is one of the skills that seems insanely powerful when you have someone (preferably outnumbering you) using it against you.
When you try to use it as an offensive CC (let alone gapcloser - i can assure you that doesn´t work reliably) against anyone semi competent you realize where it falls short and why.

Streak is a terrible offensive cc for your own offense.
Streak is also a strong defensive cc.
The cost increase makes it prohibitive to use offensively (the offensive stun area is smaller than the defensive one).
The dmg is pitiful at best.
It doesn´t allow you to force any ability except meteor to hit (with meteor generally being a meh ultimate and nobody dying to meteor + curse alone).
To use it you´re forced into a combat situation where you generally do not want to be as a sorc - melee.

So why is it that so many ppl use streak instead of ball of lightning - despite virtually every experienced sorc player saying the latter is the stronger morph and advocating for it to be nerfed alongside matriarch?
Reason 1: Barspace. You can´t really fit a dedicated CC that competes with eledrain or matriarch.
Reason 2: Available CC alternatives. There aren´t really any. Cage is absolutely useless and clench has the same range as streak.

That´s where you get the dissonance in feedback over streak from.
Sorc players generally complain about it being a lackluster offensive CC for themselves.
Players fighting sorcs generally complain about it being a very potent defensive cc or enabling OTHER players than the sorc to hit them.

Ironically both are right with their complaints. Bolt escape and morphs aren´t very well balanced.

I would take back frag cc anyday rather than streak

I agree with all your points but as always most wouldn't have a faintest idea on what you are talking about as either they don't actually play sorc or have only used steak cc to zerg down someone else.

BOL although OP is a necessary evil though and much needed for solo open world as the other morph is mostly for duels/ group / zerg style pvp

Frag CC is not the solution. In most circumstances it is worse than streak. It can be dodged & block, has a quite visible telegraph and a minimum travling time. Streaks AoE even helps you against cloakers.

The only really viable solution is to make Rune Cage viable again. And that can only happen if it is undodgeable and unblockable as the delay and huge telegraph make it far too easy to avoid. I keep telling ZOS that. But no, an unavoidable AoE stun on a gap opener / gap closer / AoE effect seems far more balanced in their eyes.

Current Streak sucks for everybody involved. @Derra pretty much said it all.

Besides that, @ZOS adding a CC to a spammable after preaching for years how damage and CC should not exist on the same ability is a really bad move. First you spent countless updates nerfing abilities only to start adding it back again after you are finally done ... And with only 1 class getting it, where is the balance in that?!

Summerset has proven that an unavoidable stun that let's you combo stuff into it is broken on sorc, there's no point discussing this any further

Oh yeah? Streak is pretty much unavoidable in the meteor combo. Where is the outcry over noob sorcs easily killing everything? How come stamcros are at the top of the food chain?

i shouldn't have to explain this, i really shouldn't have to explain this.

Streak doesn't let you hit frags+curse+meteor, rune cage lets you do that and that's where it became overpowered.

Ragnaroek93

Galarthor wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Every magblade playing the game would kill for a skill as powerful and versatile as Streak. Like I said, it would replace 3 skills for me (possibly 4 actually). Unless I'm missing something big, it sure seems to me that you're looking a gift horse in the mouth here.

Streak is one of the skills that seems insanely powerful when you have someone (preferably outnumbering you) using it against you.
When you try to use it as an offensive CC (let alone gapcloser - i can assure you that doesn´t work reliably) against anyone semi competent you realize where it falls short and why.

Streak is a terrible offensive cc for your own offense.
Streak is also a strong defensive cc.
The cost increase makes it prohibitive to use offensively (the offensive stun area is smaller than the defensive one).
The dmg is pitiful at best.
It doesn´t allow you to force any ability except meteor to hit (with meteor generally being a meh ultimate and nobody dying to meteor + curse alone).
To use it you´re forced into a combat situation where you generally do not want to be as a sorc - melee.

So why is it that so many ppl use streak instead of ball of lightning - despite virtually every experienced sorc player saying the latter is the stronger morph and advocating for it to be nerfed alongside matriarch?
Reason 1: Barspace. You can´t really fit a dedicated CC that competes with eledrain or matriarch.
Reason 2: Available CC alternatives. There aren´t really any. Cage is absolutely useless and clench has the same range as streak.

That´s where you get the dissonance in feedback over streak from.
Sorc players generally complain about it being a lackluster offensive CC for themselves.
Players fighting sorcs generally complain about it being a very potent defensive cc or enabling OTHER players than the sorc to hit them.

Ironically both are right with their complaints. Bolt escape and morphs aren´t very well balanced.

I would take back frag cc anyday rather than streak

I agree with all your points but as always most wouldn't have a faintest idea on what you are talking about as either they don't actually play sorc or have only used steak cc to zerg down someone else.

BOL although OP is a necessary evil though and much needed for solo open world as the other morph is mostly for duels/ group / zerg style pvp

Frag CC is not the solution. In most circumstances it is worse than streak. It can be dodged & block, has a quite visible telegraph and a minimum travling time. Streaks AoE even helps you against cloakers.

The only really viable solution is to make Rune Cage viable again. And that can only happen if it is undodgeable and unblockable as the delay and huge telegraph make it far too easy to avoid. I keep telling ZOS that. But no, an unavoidable AoE stun on a gap opener / gap closer / AoE effect seems far more balanced in their eyes.

Current Streak sucks for everybody involved. @Derra pretty much said it all.

Besides that, @ZOS adding a CC to a spammable after preaching for years how damage and CC should not exist on the same ability is a really bad move. First you spent countless updates nerfing abilities only to start adding it back again after you are finally done ... And with only 1 class getting it, where is the balance in that?!

I can't disagree more with this. Giving Frags the CC back IS the absolute best solution. Runecage also needs a buff for the case that it does hit but having a CC on a delayed burst class which is unavoidable is just broken. Summerset is enough proof for that and it's ridiculous that we discuss this right now.

Kalante

How did this thread about homeless nightblades turned into a buff magsorc thread.

MAG SORCS DONT NEED ANY BUFFS

by the way

PhoenixGrey

Kalante wrote: »

How did this thread about homeless nightblades turned into a buff magsorc thread.

MAG SORCS DONT NEED ANY BUFFS

by the way

Why not ? Still have a problem with mag sorcs in 2020 ?
High damage CC not enough for your class ? Do you need a buff to snipe or something ?

PhoenixGrey

Galarthor wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

Every magblade playing the game would kill for a skill as powerful and versatile as Streak. Like I said, it would replace 3 skills for me (possibly 4 actually). Unless I'm missing something big, it sure seems to me that you're looking a gift horse in the mouth here.

Streak is one of the skills that seems insanely powerful when you have someone (preferably outnumbering you) using it against you.
When you try to use it as an offensive CC (let alone gapcloser - i can assure you that doesn´t work reliably) against anyone semi competent you realize where it falls short and why.

Streak is a terrible offensive cc for your own offense.
Streak is also a strong defensive cc.
The cost increase makes it prohibitive to use offensively (the offensive stun area is smaller than the defensive one).
The dmg is pitiful at best.
It doesn´t allow you to force any ability except meteor to hit (with meteor generally being a meh ultimate and nobody dying to meteor + curse alone).
To use it you´re forced into a combat situation where you generally do not want to be as a sorc - melee.

So why is it that so many ppl use streak instead of ball of lightning - despite virtually every experienced sorc player saying the latter is the stronger morph and advocating for it to be nerfed alongside matriarch?
Reason 1: Barspace. You can´t really fit a dedicated CC that competes with eledrain or matriarch.
Reason 2: Available CC alternatives. There aren´t really any. Cage is absolutely useless and clench has the same range as streak.

That´s where you get the dissonance in feedback over streak from.
Sorc players generally complain about it being a lackluster offensive CC for themselves.
Players fighting sorcs generally complain about it being a very potent defensive cc or enabling OTHER players than the sorc to hit them.

Ironically both are right with their complaints. Bolt escape and morphs aren´t very well balanced.

I would take back frag cc anyday rather than streak

I agree with all your points but as always most wouldn't have a faintest idea on what you are talking about as either they don't actually play sorc or have only used steak cc to zerg down someone else.

BOL although OP is a necessary evil though and much needed for solo open world as the other morph is mostly for duels/ group / zerg style pvp

Frag CC is not the solution. In most circumstances it is worse than streak. It can be dodged & block, has a quite visible telegraph and a minimum travling time. Streaks AoE even helps you against cloakers.

The only really viable solution is to make Rune Cage viable again. And that can only happen if it is undodgeable and unblockable as the delay and huge telegraph make it far too easy to avoid. I keep telling ZOS that. But no, an unavoidable AoE stun on a gap opener / gap closer / AoE effect seems far more balanced in their eyes.

Current Streak sucks for everybody involved. @Derra pretty much said it all.

Besides that, @ZOS adding a CC to a spammable after preaching for years how damage and CC should not exist on the same ability is a really bad move. First you spent countless updates nerfing abilities only to start adding it back again after you are finally done ... And with only 1 class getting it, where is the balance in that?!

Summerset has proven that an unavoidable stun that let's you combo stuff into it is broken on sorc, there's no point discussing this any further

Oh yeah? Streak is pretty much unavoidable in the meteor combo. Where is the outcry over noob sorcs easily killing everything? How come stamcros are at the top of the food chain?

There will be incoming outcry from forum blades soon enough

Anyron

Kalante wrote: »

How did this thread about homeless nightblades turned into a buff magsorc thread.

MAG SORCS DONT NEED ANY BUFFS

by the way

it can be only BUFF SORC or NERF SORC thread. there is nothing in middle

but enought jokes.
after all these years, magsorc is still good class for solo pvp. but you know, it sucks to play magsorc in group in both pve and pvp. in pvp its only good to spam streak + root
in pve sorc is trash.

If you look on magsorc skills, they are all designed to be 1v1/solo pvp. thats why there is so much solo sorcs and so few zergers. zerging is reserved for stamdens

PhoenixGrey

Zelos wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

#bringbackfragstun

Surprise attack isnt a ranged skill, so no.

Suprise attack also does not have travel time. So yes

John_Falstaff

@Anyron , I don't know, magsorcs are actually quite all right in PvE as of now, excluding abysmal sustain. And you want at least one in the group anyway.

Back to topic though, from PvE standpoint it's a silly change. Yes, PvE NBs are better off using Rapid Strikes, but channeled skill just feels disgusting to use, so I'm sure most will keep using SA, and I'm so done with having everything around CC immune in dungeons.

BohnT2

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Anyron , I don't know, magsorcs are actually quite all right in PvE as of now, excluding abysmal sustain. And you want at least one in the group anyway.

Back to topic though, from PvE standpoint it's a silly change. Yes, PvE NBs are better off using Rapid Strikes, but channeled skill just feels disgusting to use, so I'm sure most will keep using SA, and I'm so done with having everything around CC immune in dungeons.

I'm gonna tell you a secret but don't share it okay?
Just wait for your tank to chain the adds or don't attack them from the side, if people say it's impossible for them to do that in pvp okay I guess the have a point but in PvE there's no excuse if you stunned NPCs with it, especially with there being better skills to use than SA in a fight where you can stun stuff.

John_Falstaff

BohnT2 wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Anyron , I don't know, magsorcs are actually quite all right in PvE as of now, excluding abysmal sustain. And you want at least one in the group anyway.

Back to topic though, from PvE standpoint it's a silly change. Yes, PvE NBs are better off using Rapid Strikes, but channeled skill just feels disgusting to use, so I'm sure most will keep using SA, and I'm so done with having everything around CC immune in dungeons.

I'm gonna tell you a secret but don't share it okay?
Just wait for your tank to chain the adds or don't attack them from the side, if people say it's impossible for them to do that in pvp okay I guess the have a point but in PvE there's no excuse if you stunned NPCs with it, especially with there being better skills to use than SA in a fight where you can stun stuff.

Thing is, I am the tank. ^^ And I'm pretty sure stamblades on the team won't be doing anything of what you just said. ^^ No matter how often I'll be sharing you secret with them, they'll keep rushing in and using SA on everything that moves. So on average, amount of nuisances in PvE a tank will experience will grow after that change.

Langeston

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

How did this thread about homeless nightblades turned into a buff magsorc thread.

MAG SORCS DONT NEED ANY BUFFS

by the way

Why not ? Still have a problem with mag sorcs in 2020 ?
High damage CC not enough for your class ? Do you need a buff to snipe or something ?

Good grief.
You should seriously consider trying another class sometime — my magsorc is hilariously overpowered compared to my magblade. Not only are the skills harder hitting and/or infinitely easier to land, they're are all on freaking autopilot.

Langeston

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Anyron , I don't know, magsorcs are actually quite all right in PvE as of now, excluding abysmal sustain. And you want at least one in the group anyway.

Back to topic though, from PvE standpoint it's a silly change. Yes, PvE NBs are better off using Rapid Strikes, but channeled skill just feels disgusting to use, so I'm sure most will keep using SA, and I'm so done with having everything around CC immune in dungeons.

Abysmal sustain? On a Sorc?