nqvarihs wrote: »

idk seems like a buff to me. instead of doing incap > (cc) > bow, with the cc being fear/cloak+sa, you can now do incap > sa > bow. so you win 1gcd or 1 spammable in terms of dmg. and the flank angle is very lage (~270°, maybe more), so it won't be too hard to proc. and you should already be moving around your target anyway. also that way you can still cloak/ha/sa and get the stun.

Decimus wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Entire reason of change of Surprise Attack is illogical and solution to nonexistent problem is also contradict "solidified standards".
1. Surprise Attack didn't lost ability to stun from invisibility with default pts changes. It lost its unintended mechanic based on bug, but skill's mechanic per se didn't lost or bugged any of its original functionality.
2. Spammables should not have attached hard CC, turning it into overloaded onebutton ability, you said it yourself on ESO Live. Only way spammable can have hard CC is is to be very conditional, like Uppercut where stun caused not by spammable itself but by additional effect or Stonefist that take 3sec before it can stun. Yet Surprise Attack conditions of procing stun can be met literally by default.
@ZOS_Gilliam so where is any logic in that change?

Shall we start removing other "bugs" that became heavily ingrained in gameplay meta to the point most consider(ed) them a feature? Maybe we should start with animation canceling? After all, that's another unintended (as stated by ZOS themselves in the past) feature in the game.

I'm pretty sure Crescent Sweep not having a cast time is also unintended, after all they gave every other burst ultimate in the game a cast time so maybe that one is bugged right now?


Well, in any case... that doesn't matter; they removed this unintended feature on Surprise Attack & changed its functionality to compensate and keep nightblade a playable class. It'll probably still be bottom tier in BGs, but it'll atleast be playable.

Also, not sure if you read patch notes but Dizzying Swing actually instantly stuns you if you're off balanced, which happens... very often, especially considering the ability itself (and many others) sets you off balance.

On top of that, it deals more damage than Surprise Attack.


Also Aurora Javelin is another skill that has a powerful knockback and deals more damage than Crushing Shock unless you build heavily around penetration.

Stonefist on the other hand deals the same damage as Surprise Attack, but also has a 28m range (which makes applying the stun quite a lot easier). It also doesn't require you to flank your target.


I'm sorry if you have problems with nightblades, but these changes are perfectly in line with game balance and having a class other than templar use something else than Dizzying Swing as spammable isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Cinbri wrote: »

Entire reason of change of Surprise Attack is illogical and solution to nonexistent problem is also contradict "solidified standards".
1. Surprise Attack didn't lost ability to stun from invisibility with default pts changes. It lost its unintended mechanic based on bug, but skill's mechanic per se didn't lost or bugged any of its original functionality.
2. Spammables should not have attached hard CC, turning it into overloaded onebutton ability, you said it yourself on ESO Live. Only way spammable can have hard CC is is to be very conditional, like Uppercut where stun caused not by spammable itself but by additional effect or Stonefist that take 3sec before it can stun. Yet Surprise Attack conditions of procing stun can be met literally by default.
@ZOS_Gilliam so where is any logic in that change?

PhoenixGrey wrote: »

ku5h wrote: »

#bringbackfragstun

That's not happening.

Conditional CC which can be easily roll dodged or blocked is not really a forum agenda these days as the typical potato on the forum thinks streak is the best cc in the game

Cinbri wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

I asked simple question but as expected there is no attempt of logical explanation, just throwing agenda. Thank you for proving that there is no logic behind the change. As always when bug is fixed its ok but as soon as it affect main class its not ok.
[snip]

Nope, it's about buffing a class which is trash currently. You don't even play the class, you're playing the vanilla class which got pruned down the least during the last year. Their standarization was a major failure which led us to the mess which we have right now, the sooner they get away from that the better. "Throwing agenda" is really unfair, you don't seem to have a problem with Jabs being the best spammable in the game and with the other spammables being weaker than a weapon skill (dizzy), you don't have a problem that your stun options are great (guess what, my stun costs 4k magicka, is meele only and does exactly NOTHING other than applying a cc, it's not even worth a skill slot right now), you don't have a problem with your ultimate not having a cast time and it's fine that Cloak is bugged too I guess (gets broken by gapclosers, light attacks and even stuff like blighted blastbones which is undodgeable on top of that, deals more damage than dizzy and applies major defile). Guess we can't buff Nbs because in your opinion it's illogical to buff them Don't worry, stamcro will continue to just delete Nb from the game.

You right about standardization - it became too obvious bait/failure when zos keep adding irrational changes that contradict their own stated "solidified" vision with literally every single update since announcement of "standardization". Adding more and more irrational changes is what making this game worse and worse instead of improving it.
And this update they did it with Surprise Attack. You and rest understanding it simply because none even tried to provide logical explanation because there is no logic in it, instead just trying to derail. Dont suddenly defend yet another weird change just coz you benefit from it, as we both knows - in the end such band aid changes will make game unhealthier, overshadowing actual problems of classes.

Kolzki wrote: »

I'm not sure what to make of this change for pve. Off balance is cool but setting adds on cc cooldown will make tanks mad.

On the other hand, I've decided that a pve stamblade running rapid strikes is basically a stam sorc with different graphics. My stamblade main became a magblade last weekend so my opinion means nothing.

Cinbri wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

I asked simple question but as expected there is no attempt of logical explanation, just throwing agenda. Thank you for proving that there is no logic behind the change. As always when bug is fixed its ok but as soon as it affect main class its not ok.
[snip]

Nope, it's about buffing a class which is trash currently. You don't even play the class, you're playing the vanilla class which got pruned down the least during the last year. Their standarization was a major failure which led us to the mess which we have right now, the sooner they get away from that the better. "Throwing agenda" is really unfair, you don't seem to have a problem with Jabs being the best spammable in the game and with the other spammables being weaker than a weapon skill (dizzy), you don't have a problem that your stun options are great (guess what, my stun costs 4k magicka, is meele only and does exactly NOTHING other than applying a cc, it's not even worth a skill slot right now), you don't have a problem with your ultimate not having a cast time and it's fine that Cloak is bugged too I guess (gets broken by gapclosers, light attacks and even stuff like blighted blastbones which is undodgeable on top of that, deals more damage than dizzy and applies major defile). Guess we can't buff Nbs because in your opinion it's illogical to buff them Don't worry, stamcro will continue to just delete Nb from the game.

You right about standardization - it became too obvious bait/failure when zos keep adding irrational changes that contradict their own stated "solidified" vision with literally every single update since announcement of "standardization". Adding more and more irrational changes is what making this game worse and worse instead of improving it.
And this update they did it with Surprise Attack. You and rest understanding it simply because none even tried to provide logical explanation because there is no logic in it, instead just trying to derail. Dont suddenly defend yet another weird change just coz you benefit from it, as we both knows - in the end such band aid changes will make game unhealthier, overshadowing actual problems of classes.

You want a logical explanation? It's not like this has been said a few times already but:

Removing the ability to heavy attack weave into a surprise attack stun (by making heavy attacks break cloak, the pre-condition for Surprise Attack stun) reduces NBs burst potential significantly, to the point where the class becomes unplayable against a good opponent.

Zenimax fixes this problem by making it possible to still heavy attack (and now light attack as well) weave into a Surprise Attack stun by tying the stun mechanism to flanking instead, which simultaneously also makes the ability more useful for less stealth reliant builds (e.g. ones that pick Dark Cloak rather than Shadowy Disguise).

This patch was not supposed to touch class balance, yet their change (call it a "fix" if you want) to melee heavy attacks from stealth severely (I can't understate how big of an impact it would've had) affected class balance - they fixed this problem by making an actual good change to an underperforming class, rather than having it be useless until next update (August/September) or rolling back their "fix".


How's that for logical? Makes perfect sense to me.

You trying to push subjective agenda instead of logic again. I will repeat for you again - skill didnt lost its function. It lost unintended mechanic caused by bug that was fixed; and zos is doing it for loong time. So why does skill that didnt lost its core mechanic got changed by the way that goes against stated vision of balance?
And quit repeating same agenda about "irrational changes <insert your class> is good because <insert random excuse>. "
Blindly defending irrational change that benefit your main class and at same time dare to cry about other classes is childish behavior.
In the end didnt expected anyone beside @ZOS_Gilliam being capable to reveal logic behind this change.

Cinbri wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

I asked simple question but as expected there is no attempt of logical explanation, just throwing agenda. Thank you for proving that there is no logic behind the change. As always when bug is fixed its ok but as soon as it affect main class its not ok.
[snip]

Nope, it's about buffing a class which is trash currently. You don't even play the class, you're playing the vanilla class which got pruned down the least during the last year. Their standarization was a major failure which led us to the mess which we have right now, the sooner they get away from that the better. "Throwing agenda" is really unfair, you don't seem to have a problem with Jabs being the best spammable in the game and with the other spammables being weaker than a weapon skill (dizzy), you don't have a problem that your stun options are great (guess what, my stun costs 4k magicka, is meele only and does exactly NOTHING other than applying a cc, it's not even worth a skill slot right now), you don't have a problem with your ultimate not having a cast time and it's fine that Cloak is bugged too I guess (gets broken by gapclosers, light attacks and even stuff like blighted blastbones which is undodgeable on top of that, deals more damage than dizzy and applies major defile). Guess we can't buff Nbs because in your opinion it's illogical to buff them Don't worry, stamcro will continue to just delete Nb from the game.

You right about standardization - it became too obvious bait/failure when zos keep adding irrational changes that contradict their own stated "solidified" vision with literally every single update since announcement of "standardization". Adding more and more irrational changes is what making this game worse and worse instead of improving it.
And this update they did it with Surprise Attack. You and rest understanding it simply because none even tried to provide logical explanation because there is no logic in it, instead just trying to derail. Dont suddenly defend yet another weird change just coz you benefit from it, as we both knows - in the end such band aid changes will make game unhealthier, overshadowing actual problems of classes.