Nobody will want to go past stage 1

klibo11 · May 2020

I'm playing a Stage 4 Vamp Magblade on PTS and I'm having a blast. I love it, I soloed all of Vvardenfells World bosses without needing to use magicka pots and only heavy attack once every 30 to 40 sec, because my build has good sustain and using vamp skills. Honestly it's fine, previously if you wanted good passives, you would be a Vamp. Now if you wanna be a Vamp, you gotta build into it.

Rake · May 2020

jaws343 wrote: »

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Wavek wrote: »

They dont want vampire to be used for its passives like it was before. The point of the changes is to make vampire usable on its own. The new vampire way wont be for everyone to just automatically have it on magicka characters. You would only get it if you wanted to use those skills. I tested it a bit today using my magblade vampire and only 1 non-vampire skill (soul siphon) and had a good time and no resource issues even at stage 4.

And what if you are stamina?

Then maybe you shouldn't be a vampire. Just like werewolf doesn't have synergy with a magicka build.

"play as you want"
my foot

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun · May 2020

klibo11 wrote: »

I'm playing a Stage 4 Vamp Magblade on PTS and I'm having a blast. I love it, I soloed all of Vvardenfells World bosses without needing to use magicka pots and only heavy attack once every 30 to 40 sec, because my build has good sustain and using vamp skills. Honestly it's fine, previously if you wanted good passives, you would be a Vamp. Now if you wanna be a Vamp, you gotta build into it.

So, you're playing as the thing the new vampire skills are actually compatible with and think it's fine.

Imagine that.

Vevvev · May 2020

klibo11 wrote: »

I'm playing a Stage 4 Vamp Magblade on PTS and I'm having a blast. I love it, I soloed all of Vvardenfells World bosses without needing to use magicka pots and only heavy attack once every 30 to 40 sec, because my build has good sustain and using vamp skills. Honestly it's fine, previously if you wanted good passives, you would be a Vamp. Now if you wanna be a Vamp, you gotta build into it.

I on the other hand played a stage 4 vamp magDK and suddenly found myself in a very serious pickle when fighting a Titan Harrowstorm worldboss. I got close and I died every single time, which forced me to drop eviscerate and change it out for Elemental Weapon with my flame staff. I won but the amount of heavy attacks I had to do was absolutely ridiculous since I ran out of magicka in less than 30 seconds into the fight. The vampire skill line is not viable in every single situation, especially ones where getting close is a death sentence like in Dragon and Titan fights. I'd rather they got rid of the non-vampire cost increases so you can be more flexible without having to carry a drink on hand whose recipe only drops during a single event, or wait for four whole hours per stage.

Tessitura · May 2020

Rick11387 wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

Then maybe you shouldn't be a vampire. Just like werewolf doesn't have synergy with a magicka build.

Then what if you're literally anything else but a MagBlade DPS?

Werewolf is usable with any role that isn't magicka. I get werewolf tanks in veteran dungeons all the time that run just fine in wolf form on trash mobs.
The new vampire doesn't work with stamina, but it also doesn't work with tanks or healers. In fact the new vampire rework is completely anti healer since they can't even heal you. I main a healer, and I promise any dps that gets themselves killed with the toggle is staying dead. I'm not wasting extra time or magicka hoping they have turned it off at the right times.

You are wrong, vampire is good on mag Necromancer, Warden, Sorcerer, and Templar, as well as the stam versions of Nightblade, Necromancer, Dragon Knight, and Warden. And tanks benefit from Blood Mist, Vigor Drain, and the Undeath passive. It really has not changed much of who can benefit from being a vamp outside of healers, it just takes new build types and changing the way you play when you are one.

iiRenity · May 2020

I apologize if I'm just being dense and not seeing it, but does anyone have any of the released upcoming patch information regarding the changes to the vampire skill line and how it impacts current vamps? i feel like I'm finding all the information but that.

Vevvev · May 2020

iiRenity wrote: »

I apologize if I'm just being dense and not seeing it, but does anyone have any of the released upcoming patch information regarding the changes to the vampire skill line and how it impacts current vamps? i feel like I'm finding all the information but that.

Are you talking about the next PTS patch or just the vampire changes that came with the PTS?

If you're talking about all the vamp changes currently on the PTS they can be found on the 3rd post on this thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522289/pts-patch-notes-v6-0-0

iiRenity · May 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

iiRenity wrote: »

I apologize if I'm just being dense and not seeing it, but does anyone have any of the released upcoming patch information regarding the changes to the vampire skill line and how it impacts current vamps? i feel like I'm finding all the information but that.

Are you talking about the next PTS patch or just the vampire changes that came with the PTS?

If you're talking about all the vamp changes currently on the PTS they can be found on the 3rd post on this thread.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/522289/pts-patch-notes-v6-0-0

Yes, that's the one I was needing! I was lookin in v. 6.0.1 for the info I needed, but this one has the details I was looking for. Thank you.

Vevvev · May 2020

6.0.1. literally has 0 changes to player vampires. Was kind of disappointing to be honest so finger crossed for the next PTS patch...

darthgummibear_ESO · May 2020

Vevvev wrote: »

6.0.1. literally has 0 changes to player vampires. Was kind of disappointing to be honest so finger crossed for the next PTS patch...

6.0.2 doesn't have any changes to player vampires either. This is mind-boggling given that the feedback on changes like the cost increase have been overwhelmingly negative. A vampire-centric expansion where the majority of vampires will probably end up curing their vampirism.

Vevvev · May 2020

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

6.0.2 doesn't have any changes to player vampires either. This is mind-boggling given that the feedback on changes like the cost increase have been overwhelmingly negative. A vampire-centric expansion where the majority of vampires will probably end up curing their vampirism.

It has one.....

"Figure
Adjusted the facial features of the Vampire Ultimate Transformation."

I think they watched that video of the vampire lord walking down the hallway with the funny music and decided to fix "that" instead of what we really wanted fixed...

IARTOI · May 2020

There is no point for increasing non-vampire cost that much. This is not balance, vampire player now being forced for only play with vampire skills.

Regular Ability Costs: +5%/+10%/+15%/+20%

Vampire Ability Costs: -10%/-20%/-30%/-40%

İt would be better like this

Regular Ability Costs: +2%/+5%/+7%/+10%

Vampire Ability Costs: -5%/-10%/-15%/-20%

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert

Vea · May 2020

Am I wrong or they didn't even mention Vampires in the patch today? I'm sad, they got a lot of feedback about it. Do you guys think they will address it next week?

Vevvev · May 2020

Vea wrote: »

Am I wrong or they didn't even mention Vampires in the patch today? I'm sad, they got a lot of feedback about it. Do you guys think they will address it next week?

We can only hope but we've only seen art changes and changes to the NPC's abilities, not our own. I personally hope that ff they're only going to change art assets that they change the vampiric drain abilities on the PTS. They're way too bright and blinding, and the ability itself is not worth it in most situations.

Skykaiser_Ọlọrun · May 2020

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

6.0.1. literally has 0 changes to player vampires. Was kind of disappointing to be honest so finger crossed for the next PTS patch...

6.0.2 doesn't have any changes to player vampires either. This is mind-boggling given that the feedback on changes like the cost increase have been overwhelmingly negative. A vampire-centric expansion where the majority of vampires will probably end up curing their vampirism.

I wonder if this is gonna be another Battle For Azeroth situation when it comes to devs just straight-up ignoring feedback. But there's still a few weeks left though, so maybe we'll see something...

Then again, we had...what...a month of Greymoor being on the PTS before it goes live? Maybe any real change was too much to hope for to begin with.

Hurbster · May 2020

I hope not, we all saw how BFA turned out.

darthgummibear_ESO · May 2020

Hurbster wrote: »

I hope not, we all saw how BFA turned out.

Yeah

DT-ARR · May 2020

I feel like a broken record...but this would all be a moot point if they adjusted the Vampire Lord armor set to incrementally reduce the vampire stage penalties vs increase them.

Kills 3 birds with 1 stone. Makes the set viable, gives the people complaining about the stage increases a way to moderately reduce the penalties in exchange for sacrificing their current 5 piece armor set, and better fits with the lore.

Example!

Vampire Lord
LEVEL 50 - CP 160
Type Overland

Set bonus:
(2 items) Adds 1096 Maximum Magicka
(3 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(4 items) Adds 833 Spell Critical
(5 items) Stage 1/2/3/4
Flame Damage Penalty reduced 4/6/8/10%
Health Regen Penalty reduced 1/2/3/4. (dont remember the percentages but essentially cut them in half per stage)
Regular Ability Cost Penalty reduced: 4/6/8/10%

Bada bing bada boom...solved.

Glurin · May 2020

DT-ARR wrote: »

I feel like a broken record...but this would all be a moot point if they adjusted the Vampire Lord armor set to incrementally reduce the vampire stage penalties vs increase them.

Kills 3 birds with 1 stone. Makes the set viable, gives the people complaining about the stage increases a way to moderately reduce the penalties in exchange for sacrificing their current 5 piece armor set, and better fits with the lore.

Uh huh. So not only are you forced to use vampire skills, you're also forced to use the vampire set. Why don't we just cut to the chase and delete any character who gets turned into a vampire and replace them all with the same NPC clone?

Not that such an adjustment to that set is a bad thing, mind you. But as a solution to the skill cost issue, it falls very, very short of the goal.

DT-ARR · May 2020

I fail to see the issue. its a viable option if you are trying to maintain a mix of normal class skills and the new vamp skills at a higher stage given the cost reduction.

Glurin · May 2020

Not everyone wants to be stuck with a choice between using vampire skills or using one particular set.

DT-ARR · May 2020

Not to call that comment out Glurin, i’m sure its just semantics, but the issue with vamps in current pts is not using the vamp skills. Its incorporating existing class skills into a rotation given the incredibly steep ability cost increase.

ZOS is clearing saying that they don’t want vamp to be a no brainer requirement for a magicka class.

I view my suggestion of the vamp lord items set to be a middle ground compromise. ZOS wins because it will still thin the herd of people utilizing vamp just for passives, while at the same time giving those who choose to run it, especially at stage 4, the ability to run a mix of skills due to easing up the cost penalty.

And as an added bonus it fits the lore perfectly for those who into RP.

I realize i’m biased. But i’ve yet to read a compromise that makes more sense between the sides.

peacenote · May 2020

Chelo wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

ElliottXO wrote: »

Just watched Alcast's video on vampires.

Vampires will be fine; and I can promise you that within the first month of release there will be the first broken Vampire builds running around (e.g. by fully exploiting the 60% vampire ability cost decrease with the set bonus).

Of course, slapping on vampire just for 2 passives won't work anymore. Get over it.

Condescending much?
People are pissed that the rework didn't turn out as promising as it was expected to be.

Was it kinda mandatory in the past? Surely. Be it for the passives alone or because some classes even needed the few lousy skills it offered.

But now tanks and healers can go cure themselves. Most (!) stamina chars as well. Vampirism turned from being omnipresent to being a straight up nerf and unusable to 50% of the playerbase.
Pick your poison. I'd rather see it more inclusive than it is now. E.g. via slightly softer cost penalties as well as a stam scaling damage ability. With those two changes alone you could get a good chunk back on board again.

If I wanted to use a skill line that with 50%+ useless skills and passives for me, I'd play a sorc on stamina . Oh, wait...

I don't see Healers and Tanks playing in Werewolf transformation either...

Vampire supposed to be for Magicka, what Werewolf is for Stamina.

Um...healers are magicka, most of the time.

This is actually one of my main issues with the new vampire. If we're going with the simplistic "vampires are for magicka, werewolves are for stamina" then vampires should have gotten a group heal or an AOE damage ability or... something.

And I do think that having benefits for healing vampires and implementing a ww taunt so they could be tanks would be a cool way to split that up.

DT-ARR · May 2020

I totally agree peacenote. Given the current notes, no heals or aoe, ZOS has essentially deemed the vamp class to be nothing but a gank pvp build.

The ability cost increase and lack of the above vamp class skill types makes it unplayable in pve.

Unless... of course...there was an easy modification to an existing item set that could be made which would enable such balance....

Universe · May 2020

Usually I stay at no more than Stage 2 on Live.
I will just go ahead and cure Vampirism if ZOS won't make the drawbacks less punishing.

Also, the Vampire skill line feels weak and unrewarding.
The only decent passive for my type of gameplay is the Unnatural Movement, which in itself is obviously not good enough reason for me to remain a Vampire.
I rarely crouch so the Dark Stalker Passive is of no use to me.

Glurin · May 2020

DT-ARR wrote: »

Not to call that comment out Glurin, i’m sure its just semantics, but the issue with vamps in current pts is not using the vamp skills. Its incorporating existing class skills into a rotation given the incredibly steep ability cost increase.

I know what the issue is. What you're not seeing is that creating a set to fix it is not real a solution.

Picture this. Imagine that the next patch changed all stamina skills into straight up healing skills. People balk at the idea, and rightly so. So ZOS creates a heavy armor set called Warrior's Rainment or something which converts healing skills into damage skills. Problem solved, right?

Well, not so much. All that did was make it so that in order to be a stamina DPS you must wear Warrior's Rainment. No choice. And the fact that you can only get it in heavy armor is just salt in the wound.

Same problem here. If non-vampire skills are too expensive to incorporate into a build, thus leaving you with very few build options, creating a set to fix it would feel more like an insult than a compromise since now you're just trading one undue restriction for another.

DT-ARR · May 2020

I see that just fine which is why i call it a compromise solution.

What I don’t think YOU are seeing, is that ZOS clearly doesn’t want this widely used by the majority.

If they simply cut the penalties, then they will have to massively nerf the damage toggle, and completely re-work the passives. Otherwise we’re back to where we are today, but worse. Vamp skill line would be mandatory and obviously OP.

The way it stands now, working within the framework of the skills and passives they have presented us, i think the above armor set idea is the best solution. Especially in the short term to give everyone a bit of what they want.

What i think you are advocating for would require a total re-work of the skills, passives and penalties of the entire line. And i simply dont see that happening within the timeframe left before it goes live.

With that said, i’m more than willing to hear your suggestions.

Glurin · May 2020

Even if they went so far as to simply remove the cost penalty altogether it would hardly require a total rework. After all, you can still use all those skills at stage one where the penalty is pretty minor. And if anything, this is exactly the reason they were blocking out the exact values on screenshots and whatnot when it first hit the PTS. Because it's very subject to change.

Cinbri · May 2020

Its all matter of incentives . It seems they made Scion ultimate keeping in mind that you can push down its ult cost to even lower than 150ult. Coz despite on Stage 1 Scion is comparable to Goliath Transformation of necros, de facto it has far less survivability.
So on stage 1 Scion will be weak to build around this ult, but on stage 4+vampire set and constantly spam this ult will be strong.

OmniDo · May 2020

darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »

It seems silly to have put all this time and manpower into a huge rework of vampires in a vampire-centric expansion, only to have most of that work ignored by the bulk of people who play vampires(if they even choose to remain a vampire).

That was never the point.
The changes were made at the behest of the majority of forum [snip], not because they were consistent with Elder Scrolls lore, or because they would be fun to play. The devs [snip], and they aren't in it for approval. Profit-generation was and is the only goal.

[edited for bashing]