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Should animations be reworked or removed so we no longer have to "cancel them"?
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Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes.Some animations, like newer skill lines, can't be cancelled. I wonder if it would be possible to simply make it so the old ones couldn't be cancelled either?
With any skill, the server determines when the damage occurs. What we see with animation canceling is mostly a desync between the client and the server. Further, with all skills there is a GCD of ~1 second that controls how much time is required for that skill. That is the control for all skills.
But do you think that we should be able to cancel the animation? Or "desync" with the server as you put it?0 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes.Animation cancelling is stupid and boring.
In every game.
Any game or part thereof which requires it, is something I will always ignore.2 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭Personally, I wish they'd redo animations so that they all link up and flow into one another - and I'm no coder, but I like to believe a system like that would help out with the desyncs and refusals for some skills and light/heavy attacks to fire at all."I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.1 -
Linaleah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yes.Personally, I wish they'd redo animations so that they all link up and flow into one another - and I'm no coder, but I like to believe a system like that would help out with the desyncs and refusals for some skills and light/heavy attacks to fire at all.
this. if the animation is consistent with abilities actual cast times/global cooldowns, then not only combat just looks better, it would feel better, because you can directly SEE when something is finished casting instead of guessing. and yes that means animations for instant skills would be .5 second long so that you cannot use more then 2 abilities in a second.dirty worthless casual.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***3 -
Red_Feather✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What really sucks is that guild wars 2 has such better combat but the cooldowns in that game just ruin it all. There is no global canceling in guild wars 2. You can only cancel very specific skills.0 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No.Yes. The game should be reworked so that all skills consist of an identical animation of identical length, so that no one has to worry about anything complicated like thinking about what they're doing. It's too confusing and difficult to have wonder when the animation is going to end, and so all animations should be the same so you never have to worry about that. Maybe, if players want, different classes can have different-colored animations, to provide class identity.
It must be sarcasm.. It must be......3 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No.Some animations, like newer skill lines, can't be cancelled. I wonder if it would be possible to simply make it so the old ones couldn't be cancelled either?
What ones cant be canceled? Ones with cast times? Because cast time skills haven't been able to be canceled for a long time. Or are you talking about something else? I know plenty of warden and necro skills can be canceled. And some psijic skills too. But since these awful block changes many skills cant really be block canceled anymore..
Even light attacks, it just feels awful. Its so much more clunky now and makes no sense since some skills can be block canceled and others cant. And whats worse is, with the way performance is, so many skills dont work right in pvp. Changes like this should come after performance improvements. I mean in a pop locked campaign my dswing always has a double or tripled cast time, thats insane.
Dont worry though, you'll get your way. I can tell by certain things zos says and by the block changes. This is the direction they will go in. They made a game with fast paced, intricate, combat and now want to slow it down for those who dont want to play at the fast pace you can play at. But it will never change anything, those who put in more effort will always do better no matter how much they dumb things down.2 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No.OP, I don't really like your tactics here.
I myself have been known to consistently advocate for points in various topics, especially when it comes to the healing role.
However what I don't do is change the logic behind why I care to be worded differently each time, in the hopes that THIS TIME people will support my views. That's a bit manipulative.
First you tried to get folks to vote against weaving, claiming that it was a skill gap issue but hinting that it's not real skill. Then you raised it as a time investment issue. THEN you suggested that it's an issue because of people with disabilities. And NOW you're bringing back the old "if animations are there we shouldn't cancel them" argument.
I am especially saddened by the fact that you made a specific topic about the disability/injury issue, as I am someone who has struggled with this (I have a repetitive stress injury) and I don't think your concern for this perspective is sincere, since you keep changing your focus with each post. I don't know which is the thing you're really bothered by, but I don't like to see a real issue (that we should have play styles viable for folks with injuries) be used as simply a tactic for some type of crusade, but then abandoned when it didn't work to sell your viewpoint.
It's very important, especially given the recent suggested changes to LA and HA, that each issue is separately addressed and the waters aren't muddied with assumptions. If you don't like animation cancelling, criticize that as a philosophical belief. If you can't LA weave because you don't have time to dedicate to learning how to do it, advocate for HA DPS builds. If you can't LA weave because of an injury, advocate for tanks and healing builds, and don't stand idly by when changes to DPS negatively impact those roles. If you think there's a skill gap issue, help facilitate those discussions and come up with more than ONE IDEA for how to solve this gap.
But don't pretend that you're worried about folks with injuries if you're just upset that you don't have time to learn a DPS rotation, and don't pretend that you're a purist who wants to see animations go through if your real issue is how frustrated new players get and you're worried about the future of the game. Those are all DIFFERENT THINGS.8 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.Your last 3 posts:
3. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520608/how-much-time-commitment-is-required-to-get-good-at-weaving-being-good-enough-to-do-all-content#latest
2. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520612/how-can-the-game-be-made-more-accessible-to-people-with-some-sort-of-disability-for-weaving#latest
1. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520695/should-animations-be-reworked-or-removed-so-we-no-longer-have-to-cancel-them#latest
Please just merge them into a single thread about how much you dislike animation cancelling so we can make fun of you and move on with our lives.7 -
Knowledge✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes.Your last 3 posts:
3. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520608/how-much-time-commitment-is-required-to-get-good-at-weaving-being-good-enough-to-do-all-content#latest
2. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520612/how-can-the-game-be-made-more-accessible-to-people-with-some-sort-of-disability-for-weaving#latest
1. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520695/should-animations-be-reworked-or-removed-so-we-no-longer-have-to-cancel-them#latest
Please just merge them into a single thread about how much you dislike animation cancelling so we can make fun of you and move on with our lives.
I feel bad that you want to make fun of me. I'm not sure why but it's not nice.Edited by Knowledge on April 11, 2020 4:25AM1 -
Hotdog_23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Knowledge, friendly advice. Stop worrying about Animation Canceling and just enjoy the game. Sure, to do the best you need to do it, but it is not required to clear the content and only important in score rounds which in my personally experience is not a lot of people trying for it. ESO is a game for enjoyment and fun not a job or chore. Please do not set yourself up for disappointment and failure before your even play ESO by setting up unrealistic expectation for yourself.
Yes, there is some people that that use it to be some kind of elitism but generally they only taunt it to make up for their own personally failures in other areas of their life. Then there are some that use to talk about what is possible and a goal for others to shoot for to improve personally. Animation Cancel is not a failure by ZOS programing but unintended part of it. They decided it is not really a bad thing and choose not to try and “fix” or re-program it out.
I get that you must have problems doing it physically and you are not alone as I do also and the only real place, I can tell the difference is in PVP land. It’s just something you must build around and stay away from sets and skills that directly need it to perform.
Personally, there are some days in which I do not do challenging content due to not being able to do it physically or without increased pain. On those days I do other activities in ESO that do not stress me physically and honestly it is a nice change of pace. Stay safe and have fun in Tamriel.
2 -
Nerouyn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes.@Hotdog_23
No.
Games - online or otherwise - all include a component of being the best you can be. Regardless of whether there's any online or competitive component.
Animation cancelling makes that impossible if you don't like animation cancelling.
It's one of the big reasons I'm very keen to dump ESO.
The problem is at this point that both the group who do and don't like it are sizeable. ZO can neither get rid of it nor eg. make regular PvE content harder to require it, without pissing a huge number of players and losing a *** of money.
Really, the only solution is to split the playerbase onto separate servers.1 -
worrallj✭✭✭✭✭At least if animation canceling goes away it will be even more obvious who the bad players are.... Basically anyone who light attacks at all1 -
Nomadic_Atmoran✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Moderators really need to come down on posters spamming the forums with the same tired subjects.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry - Laerinel Rhaev - Enrerion - Caius Berilius - Seylina Ithvala - Signa Squallrider - H'Vak the GrimjawlYynril Rothvani - Tenarei Rhaev - Bathes-In-Coin - Dazsh Ro Khar - Aredyhel - Reads-To-Frogs - Azjani Ma'LesKheshna gra-Gharbuk - Gallisten Bondurant - Aban Shahid Bakr - Etain Maquier - Atsu Kalame - Faulpia Severinus8 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭No.Why not just play chess? The entire point is to add joystick skill and i use the term skill loosely.1 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yes.Yes, The animations need to be simplified the long animations result in this huge dps gap between those that can/know to animation cancel and those that don't.
There is some utility in animations allowing us to see which ability is being used but there are other ways of doing that other than long animations.1 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.Your last 3 posts:
3. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520608/how-much-time-commitment-is-required-to-get-good-at-weaving-being-good-enough-to-do-all-content#latest
2. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520612/how-can-the-game-be-made-more-accessible-to-people-with-some-sort-of-disability-for-weaving#latest
1. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520695/should-animations-be-reworked-or-removed-so-we-no-longer-have-to-cancel-them#latest
Please just merge them into a single thread about how much you dislike animation cancelling so we can make fun of you and move on with our lives.
I feel bad that you want to make fun of me. I'm not sure why but it's not nice.
I don't WANT to make fun of you. I want you to make one thread about a particular topic instead of multiple, and to stop hiding your actions behind stupid excuses like threads about people with disabilities.4 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.This is already the case. You don't have to animation cancel anything to achieve high DPS, it's a myth that somehow continues to spread. You do have to Light Attack before each skill, but that doesn't even cancel any animations.2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭No.Some animations, like newer skill lines, can't be cancelled. I wonder if it would be possible to simply make it so the old ones couldn't be cancelled either?
With any skill, the server determines when the damage occurs. What we see with animation canceling is mostly a desync between the client and the server. Further, with all skills there is a GCD of ~1 second that controls how much time is required for that skill. That is the control for all skills.
But do you think that we should be able to cancel the animation? Or "desync" with the server as you put it?
Sure.
While I thought the answer would be obvious based on how I answered the poll I am happy to confirm this tidbit of knowledge for you.Edited by idk on April 11, 2020 7:12AM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No.Personally, I wish they'd redo animations so that they all link up and flow into one another - and I'm no coder, but I like to believe a system like that would help out with the desyncs and refusals for some skills and light/heavy attacks to fire at all.
this. if the animation is consistent with abilities actual cast times/global cooldowns, then not only combat just looks better, it would feel better, because you can directly SEE when something is finished casting instead of guessing. and yes that means animations for instant skills would be .5 second long so that you cannot use more then 2 abilities in a second.
You already can't use more than one ability every second, let alone every half a second. In fact, your suggestion would actually increase high APM and if u actually believe that this system doesn't allow you to see what is happening and you have to guess then u have no idea what is going to happen whith ur proposition when people can literally fire 2 abilities every second.2 -
FakeFox✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No.Half the people here don't even know what global cooldowns are...oh well.EU/PC (GER) - Healermain since 2014 - 50305 Achievement Points - Youtube (PvE Healing Guides, Builds & Gameplay)4 -
SickleCider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Sigh. Animation canceling and LA weaving are meta game techniques adopted by a handful of players. These techniques are not there by design and are not required to complete content. If you want to campaign about something, campaign about the handful of elitists that think these techniques are necessary, and think they are not just some fun, buggy tech you can use.✨🐦✨ Blackfeather Court Commission ✨🐦✨0 -
Darkstorne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
@Azmarul This is why animation cancelling threads depress me. Everyone falls into the either/or camp, and cites a “lack of understanding” by the people they disagree with.This attitude (including in my case) tends to come from a lack of understanding of why it is actually has an important purpose in combat oriented games, and also an understanding of what it really takes to increase one's own damage. If you can't cancel an animation, you can't do things like block an incoming attack quickly or dodge roll a fast moving aoe. You'd have to wait for the entire previous skill to play out and it would not feel responsive. Other MMOs that have dodge rolling also have some type of animation canceling.
Truth is, both sides are right and wrong at the same time. Animation cancelling is indeed important to be able to block or roll out of harm’s way. But not for increasing damage. Cancelling an animation before it connects should also cancel the attack, and deal no damage. Animations should be designed to deal damage and visibly connect at the end of an animation. ESO’s combat designers were so bad at their jobs that they programmed the system to deal damage as soon as you clicked a button. The animation is essentially irrelevant because the damage is already done, which forced the animation team to try their best to create front-loaded animations which visibly connect as soon as possible, to hide the damage delay as much as possible. Hence why we have silly 2H light attack animations where a character instantly swings their weapon at an enemy as though it’s weightless, but then suddenly acts likes it’s a heavy weapon at the end of the swing.
A good animation cancelling system would be like For Honor’s, where cancelling the animation cancels the attack. Damage is only dealt at the point the animation connects. This also opens up better gameplay design options like reactive play which is currently impossible in ESO. Find some NPC bandits and try blocking their light attacks reactively: block after you see them raise their weapon, but before it hits you. That should be a simple and intuitive thing to do, the same way it works in Skyrim and countless other ARPGs. But it’s impossible in ESO. If the animation has started then it’s too late to block. You’ve already been hit. Hence why you can cancel a light attack when all you’ve done is raise your sword in preparation to swing it, but still deal damage. This is also why the devs are adding cast times to so many skills and abilities, as a band-aid to try and create reactive playstyles for PVP at least, but rather than doing so by fixing the system to deal damage at a fixed point of an animation (ideally towards the end) they’re taking the frustrating shortcut of adding cast times.
Tl;dr - Animation Cancelling is important for a good ARPG combat system. ESO’s implementation is a god awful broken mess. Anyone who wants to ditch it completely doesn’t understand why it’s important. But anyone who defends it is an even bigger part of the problem.
5 -
Kr3do✭✭✭✭✭
✭No.ZOS needs to stop touching animations. Whenever they did they failed to achieve their goal and made it way worse than before.3 -
amir412✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes. The game should be reworked so that all skills consist of an identical animation of identical length, so that no one has to worry about anything complicated like thinking about what they're doing. It's too confusing and difficult to have wonder when the animation is going to end, and so all animations should be the same so you never have to worry about that. Maybe, if players want, different classes can have different-colored animations, to provide class identity.
Yes, why bother with thinking at all?
Thinkers and brain dead people should achieve the same thing irl aswell.0
This discussion has been closed.