Oh yeah it can easily bite you in the ass, but because you can turn it on and off, it becomes a test of your game sense and situational awareness, if you die because of it, its because you picked the wrong moment to use it, high risk high reward, and you failing is ultimately down to your ability to use the ability.
Because some of those passives are very powerful is some Situations. It's your choice if the curse's gift is worth the drawbacks. But let's at least test it before demanding changes.
As a MagDK I stand my ground and fight. My DK passives will boost the melee range vampire ability and then my superior class healing skills, and rapid regen on healing staff, will keep my alive as I draw from the benefits of that one ability that gives me power.
Vampire is basically a beefed up version of NMA without having to really do anything to keep it up. I could care less about the passives since they don't favor an in your face warrior like myself.
Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Copied from another post
Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.
The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.
Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds
This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.
I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.
If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .
ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.
That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.
We cant use skins now? Oof
barney2525 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Copied from another post
Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.
The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.
Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds
This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.
I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.
If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .
ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.
That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.
We cant use skins now? Oof
Agreed. THAT for me sux worse than everything else.
If they don't want vampires in the game, why not just remove them?
IMHO
Thevampirenight wrote: »barney2525 wrote: »Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Copied from another post
Im generally ok with everything that is being done. But the cost increase is insane. Vampires are in lore masters of magic and combat. The Health regen debuff, removal of resource increase, and health regen debuffs are way more than enough downside to taking vampirism.
The way it is now with the cost increase flies in the face of what ZoS mission statement of trying to increase the variation of builds and build diversity. This will force -everyone- to use ONLY the vampire skills. It will destroy magicka toons across the board.
Our abilities already cost more than Stamina abilities
Our abilities are already weaker by default than stamina abilities
Regen is MUCH more important for magicka builds
This will also shoehorn magicka classes, who by nature are more ranged than stamina, to fight in close quarter combat. How on earth am I supposed to play a vampire magsorc? A loss of 10 percent of my resource recovery, an increase of 20 percent cost for all my abiltiies ( this includes ultimates too ) and a loss of 78 percent of my damage from my light attacks will not only cripple my mag sorc, it will cripple my mag dk, AND my magblade as well. This absolutely destroys any build diversity when it comes to vampire toons.
I can deal with the light attack changes if they follow @code65536 's suggestions, I can deal with the loss of the 10 percent regen, but this cost increase to my abilities....as a vamp player since day 1 because I LOVE vampires in general, will be the straw that breaks the camels back. The nail in the coffin. The last straw.
If the cost increase of normal abilities goes through, I will see no choice but to simply play 1 toon, because all my toons will be using the same ultis, and the same skills 50 percent of the time.
@ZOS_GinaBruno , The mission statement is " play how you want ", but this, this is not that. You simply cannot be viable with an increase of 20 percent to all your active abilities. Neither in pvp, or pve. If this goes through itll be " play how you want, unless youre a vampire, then you HAVE to use these skills " .
ALSO, the removal of the ability to use skins is COMPLETELY unacceptable. I spent a LOT of money of the years trying to get certain skins, and for them to just say, oh well , now..... thats beyond reprehensible.
That is in no way balanced. Werewolf does not have half of the negatives vampires will get. See Above post.
We cant use skins now? Oof
Agreed. THAT for me sux worse than everything else.
If they don't want vampires in the game, why not just remove them?
IMHO
Skins work the way they do on live when it comes to vampirism. Thing is Npcs will still know that you look like a stage four vampire even with the skin on. So it isn't much good in tricking them by wearing it they can still tell.
I mean, why make it illegal? To RP the fact they heal on blood? It may be a simplistic opinion but I think that forbidding a vampire to heal on enemies is quite frankly stupid. On allies? Ok. But on enemies...
Yeah, who cares about Vampires having a history in TES of being Stronger, Faster, more skilled in magic AND battle than basically anyone other than maybe werewolves?
Who cares about the history of them getting ridiculous +20 to Strength, Willpower, and Speed stats. Screw +20 to Blade, Heavy Armor, Unarmored, Hand to Hand, Athletics, Acrobatics, Sneak, Destruction, Mysticism, and Illusion?
Who cares the 2 Morrowind Clans that focused on Stealth and Assassination or straight up BATTLE?
Who cares about the Oblivion Vampirism that still gave bonuses to melee builds and weren't just focused on being magicka characters with a restrictive skill line?
Who cares the Normal Vampires from Skyrim that got all sorts of passive bonuses to all playstyles and was only forced into a narrow "Vampire Only" skill tree when in a TOGGLE VAMPIRE LORD FORM?
Who cares the Pre-Greymoor ESO Vampires that had bonuses to all skill build types (obviously, or you and others wouldn't keep complaining how you 'HAD' to be a vampire for the extra 10% Stam&Mag recovery)?
Hell, previous games before Skyrim even gave Vampires RESISTANCE of up to 50% against non-silvered weapons, and a 20%-50% increase in resistance to Frost. Which would literally make them unstoppable in ESO unless people used the Fighter's Guild tree.
What we're looking at getting in Greymoor is Skyrim's Vampire Lord, without the toggle. Where Vampires will objectively become a niche build that may or may not wind up being competitive or useful in content outside of overland or normal dungeons.
1) Drain can't be used while blocking - meaning even tanks will struggle to find it useful with all the new Vampiric Drawbacks, a 3 second channel that you literally can't mitigate with. And will require kiting so you don't take more damage than you heal.
2) Mist form can't be reliably block canceled and will require people to jump their hotbars often to use it for effective mitigation, which people are already doing - but unless you're going to front AND back bar your other Vampire Abilities, you'll lose stuff like Frenzy to swap to drop the form.
3) Eviscerate and Blood Frenzy both walk a razor's edge between being marginally useful and a straight up detriment. Especially because it's wonky scaling. Casts with Magicka but scales with Max HP, or costs health to use while you're already actively draining your HP and stopping anyone else from being able to heal you. Not counting it's literally a worse reskin of Venomous Claw without the DoT.
4) Mesmerize looks amazing and has cool flavor, probably the best new ability we've seen added, but will basically be useless outside solo content or unless you're a tank that can actually HAVE everything looking at you.
5) Blood Scion is literally Bone Colossus but reskinned for Vampire use, sure it heals you to full upon casting and one of the morphs gets you to ignore the detriments of being a Stage 4 Vampire, but why wouldn't you just slot this as your ultimate, play your build normally with a lower dps rate due to the increased costs and then cast this for 20 seconds of being able to act like you're still a fully functioning character that wasn't gimped by the new skill line coming out?
The Invisibility while sprinting passive is fun, but basically a glorified upgrade to the Shadow Rider passive from Dark Brotherhood - instead of mounting and gaining 50% detection radius reduction from enemies instead you're standard sprinting and invisible to them. Neat if you've got to get through town with a bounty or navigate through an area with a lot of enemies overland. Or niche if you're trying to gank in PVP.
Increased spell and weapon damage would be great if that meant you wouldn't have to keep mist on your bar as a DPS to activate it since NB is the only class with an invis. And you wouldn't have to stop using your normal consumable to pick up an Invis potion to make use of it.
And I haven't done extensive testing on Undeath - so I can't tell you what state it's in for better or worse. But I imagine a flat 30% based on missing HP would probably be worse than a flat 33% while under 50% HP.
What they're doing is taking a historically UNIVERSAL bonus for all builds and play styles in pretty much literally EVERY TES game that it's made a debut in. And turning it into a Niche solo skill tree that really should have been 3 whole skill trees if they wanted to encourage people to play full Vampirism.
Give a Tank Tree, DPS Tree, and Healing Tree like NB, Warden, Necro (etc). Fill it with interesting and cool abilities, including the NPC ones that were shown like the bat knockdown dash, the combat stun drain, the AoE blood boil pool. And others.
THEN you can have a complete toolset and a right to try and tout the "True Vampirism" line you're constantly trying to get other people to buy.
Right now, it's messy, disjointed abilities, passives that only benefit someone like a MagBlade. And is worse overall than what we have on Live.
I've literally NEVER cared about people choosing Vampirism for the passive benefits.
Because guess what, that would be a LEGITIMATE REASON TO CHOOSE VAMPIRISM IRL.
Mortal: "oh I hate being slow, weak, and prone to dying of old age"
Vampire: "Have you heard of Vampirism?!"
M: "No, what's that?"
V: "Only the cure to all your ails, just one bite and you'll have a bunch of strengths, run farther, jump higher, hit harder, use more potent magic, gain immortality and all for the low low couple of very specific weaknesses"
M: "SIGN ME UP!".
Sideeffectsmayinclude: Intolerancetosunlightgarlicsilveredweaponsfire
Make the punishment for being one more severe sure, they've always had weaknesses like Ambient Sunlight (Pretty impossible in an MMO with such a slow span of Night and Day, given their admission by changing Night Stalker to no longer require night time), 50% Fire Damage taken, Restoration magic used to damage them in some games.
But this just seems like them taking the pendulum and swinging it wildly in the other direction.
Unless they do something crazy and make using all Vampire Skills viable for Trials and Veteran Content where you're not just going to get killed because your damage buff makes you only able to heal yourself, you have 0 HP recovery, your spammable is Magicka and Max HP only - and it's better morph crits ONLY while you're under 50% Hp, the Stun only works if your targets are looking AT you. And the Ultimate is a Worse Bone Colossus that will either be:
A.) 20s (a little less because the initial transformation takes 2s), where you ignore the penalties and can play the game like an actual person on Live currently can.
B.) Ravenous Colossus, but with only 1/3rd of the HP boost.
Is someone going to find some crazy specific item/rune/CP combo that makes it LOOK like it works? Probably.
Will most people wind up just staying Stage 1 and taking 1 or 2 abilities like they already did on Live so that they can still run endgame content without being laughed at by their groups? That's the more likely outcome.
Recovery for Stamina AND Magicka by 10% - you can argue and say how this made it 'necessary' for EVERYONE to be a Vampire, therefore it's bad. But I'd say that you're telling people to use sets to mitigate around this could be applied to current live game and if you wanted the 10% recovery, just use a recovery set and let Vampires have cool things. They're SUPPOSED to be better in some ways than normal people. Not just blanket worse.
They're also losing Unnatural Resistance - which lowered the penalties for the higher stages, and actually made playing them bearable for most people. And if it was still part of the tree, it might not be as big of an issue as it is now. Since Stage 4 Vamps would only have a 50% Hp recovery reduction rather than a flat 0 percent.
Literally the only positive of having a Stage 4 vampire is the reduction in costs for Vampire abilities.
On live, as a Stage 4 - Breton Vampire:
50% HP recovery reduction
25% more Fire Damage taken
21% Reduced Costs for Vampire Skill Line abilities
10% Increased Stamina and Magicka Recovery.
33% Damage Reduction under 50% HP
On PTS, as a Stage 4 - Breton Vampire:
100% Hp recovery reduction
20% more Fire Damage taken
40% Reduced Costs for Vampire Skill line abilities
20% Increased Costs for Non-Vampire skills
30% Damage Reduction based on missing HP
300 Weapon and Spell damage after leaving Stealth
Sprinting costs 50% less and turns you invisible so long as you're sprinting for 3 seconds.
While you technically get "more" positives, because 2 of them were added for Greymoor.
They also increased HP recovery reduction by 50% (to a forced 0, you literally can't recover HP without potions or healing)
20% Increased costs for using ANY ability that isn't from the Vampire skill line. Including Weapon skills, which hurts melee builds that aren't going to use solely Eviscerate as their spammable.
A less useful Damage Reduction.
And some highly situation passives that mostly benefit characters like Nightblades (which have a reliable stealth that ISN'T just Vampiric Mist block cancelling), and a sprinting passive that is great if you're one of those people that likes to just run past stuff or maybe get out of town if you've got a bounty.
So, you get a big selection of nerfs to your character overall. A skill line that basically forces you into playing a Magicka character to take full effect of it. And some niche flavor abilities that won't come in handy in most content.
Sure, you get some fun new abilities - but when you try and apply most of those to content that people play Vampires in. PvP, Trials, Veteran Mode instances?
You've got a stun that only works if your enemies are looking at YOU, you get a damage buff that costs you HP and one that makes you only able to heal yourself.
A Magicka spammable for MELEE that scales with max HP.
Essentially the Same Drain, and same Vampiric Mist (Granted it now heals instead of JUST damaging with the Baleful morph).
It's not good man. At least for people you claim don't really exist, those of us that ACTUALLY play Vampire. Not just used it for the 10% recovery passive.