Khatou wrote: »

We're entitled to tons of very interesting sets, but unfortunately they're barely usable because if we don't have a sufficient set with + in dps we don't type anything at all, it's really confusing the vision of zos for TESO, we're supposed to play what we want but now it's not really the case anymore, only the tanks and the cheat mages by ZOS have the right to get their kicks as well as the berserkers, that's what TESO wants us to play, why not give the freedom to the players to create original builds, isn't that the strength of an MMORPG ?

People are doing that because they are told they need max DPS. It is the measure of "success" in the game.

The spreadsheet crowd will always brag up a "max DPS" meta for people to follow, but my experience in the game suggests that this is not necessary to play. It is just what people think they have to do.

There might be some content that you cannot easily complete, and that is really the reason behind the max DPS... easily completing content. If you accept that it might take longer, or that you may die a couple times while doing it, then you can use a much wider variety of builds.

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

No one is stopping you from doing whatever you want.
Just dont expect to clear the hardest Content with whatever you choose to equip and think About selecting normal mode for experiencing all Content in PvE instead of vet.

"You can do whatever you want, just not everything you want."

The concepts of playing the way you want and playing ultra-competitively are not really compatible in any multi-player game. For those playing non-competitively there is massive freedom of choice, but that choice narrows the more you ramp up the competitive nature of your play (and the more competitive your guilds are).

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

"You can do whatever you want, just not everything you want."

You can do whatever you want but you cant expect random People to carry you through something.

A good player with "bad" sets can still perform well without warranting a carry, and in Trials there's no real way to single out the one underperforming dps in a sea of them, unless you're on PC and using some spying addon. I've even been told my Stamblade wearing Hulking and Leviathan was a terrible build, but It worked very well.

ArchMikem wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

No one is stopping you from doing whatever you want.
Just dont expect to clear the hardest Content with whatever you choose to equip and think About selecting normal mode for experiencing all Content in PvE instead of vet.

"You can do whatever you want, just not everything you want."

To be blunt, what is the alternative to this setup?

If you could clear the hardest veteran trials using nothing but white "Ornate" gear and 8k DPS, what would even be the point of having different difficulty tiers?

Moreover, normal mode is completely fine for experiencing story content without the increased demands of performance, it is not like the story changes at all with your difficulty setting.

Further, it isn't only DPS, for harder content you need more skilled (and well-equipped) Healers and Tanks as well.

TLDR; You cannot expect to clear the most demanding content of a game while refusing to engage with the basic systems of the game that you are playing. This is all but axiomatic.

Vaoh wrote: »

You can’t expect a roleplaying build to be only barely worse than a BIS build.

Why not?

Seriously, why not? One can hardly call wearing a different shirt an original build if you're still restricted to all the same skills, weapons and stat allocation that the meta builds have. So yeah, damn right you should be able to build an ice mage or an evasive archer and still expect to be viable. They don't have to be "barely worse" though. Just good enough to be capable of doing well.

Glurin wrote: »

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

No one is stopping you from doing whatever you want.
Just dont expect to clear the hardest Content with whatever you choose to equip and think About selecting normal mode for experiencing all Content in PvE instead of vet.

"You can do whatever you want, just not everything you want."

To be blunt, what is the alternative to this setup?

If you could clear the hardest veteran trials using nothing but white "Ornate" gear and 8k DPS, what would even be the point of having different difficulty tiers?

It's more a matter of degrees. I don't think anyone is asking to clear the hardest vet trials in "Ornate gear and 8k DPS". But the difference between this month's optimal setup and a sub-optimal one shouldn't be such that the later is stuck in normals. You shouldn't have to use meta builds just to have a shot at clearing the more difficult content.

You can do most vet stuff in suboptimal gear, and you can get the best sets in norma trials. Normal Cloudrest and Sunspire are probably the two most farmed trials, which have most of the “bis” gear. The difference between perfected and non perfected gear is actually pretty minimal, and shouldn’t stop anyone from completing any vet content. Then you have sets like mother’s sorrow which can be obtained over land. To me, the bigger issue is why ZOS keeps putting out a few sets every year that are OP, and raise top end dps. I guess it is to sell chapters. But obtaining these sets is not really the problem. They make them easily obtainable.

Seems a lot of folks have trouble understanding that "playing the way you want" doesn't mean your chosen style will be the best. That "viable" means just that, viable. Not BiS, not top, not competitive, just "capable of working successfully". And just because it works successfully, doesn't mean anyone else has to care about it, and they still have every right to kick you out of their group even if your viable build doesn't meet the minimum standards they expect to be upheld, even if those standards exceed what is necessary.

Personally, I think part of it stems from people feeling perturbed about others being, in their mind, better than them solely because of "crutches" like meta builds or CP or gear or whatever, or bristling at the idea that they may have to do something other than exactly what they want to reach certain levels of achievement -- this insidious idea that rather than equal opportunity to achieve something, instead achievement itself should be guaranteed. This idea that anything which challenges someones own individuality is somehow an attack on their own worthiness and value as a player. It's rather weird and infantile tbqh.

Just like life, some people are subpar. Some people make bad decisions which fly against conventional wisdom and don't work out for them. Some people fail. There are winners, and there are losers. It happens. Nobody should be guaranteed success, in anything. To do so literally robs any value in it from those who actually worked to achieve it. Instead, everyone should be guaranteed the opportunity to be successful. This actually already exists in ESO -- literally anybody can follow the meta, practice a bit, and reach the most high other than the most soaring pinnacles.

That said, I can agree that the strictness of the meta can at times be stifling to creativity and individual enjoyment, and I too would like to see more build and set variability, but I absolutely I don't believe the destruction of core mechanics, or sets, or play styles should be the way to achieve this -- which is all too often what the majority of complaints and "suggestions" seem to boil down to. It is, quite literally, the destruction of other peoples enjoyment for the sake of your own, which I honestly think is incredibly narcissistic, as well as a few other terms which would get my post violently moderated.

Do I think there should be more variability? Absolutely! Do I think there should be far more viable (read: functional) options in both PvP and PvE? Absolutely! Do I think we should drag anyone else's build or set down, or completely upend the games mechanics to get there? Not a chance. Do I think that every build should be able to perform equally well in PvE or PvP? No way. Besides, if every build and set ends up performing essentially the same with the same results, that's not really diversity then either is it? Nothing more than a false choice masquerading as "diversity".

edit: In rereading this I got like, hella off topic and tangenty, sorry about that. Leaving it anyway though.