When could we play TESO for a gameplay instead of always favoring the max damage?

Everest_Lionheart

thorwyn wrote: »

You are carrying guys like that and meanwhile I’m over here grinding like crazy to get my DPS over the 50K mark so I don’t slow down any vet runs (PUG or organized.) have 3 toons right now, one at 40K (magplar) another at 42 (Stamwarden) and 45K (MagDK)

Are you talking about 3m/6m dummies or the 21m raid atro here?

Those are my 21m parses. I’m still new and learning the game plus acquiring gear sets to fully flesh out the builds. It’s a process a long and grindy process but a process non the less. I played almost exclusively solo from the time I started (mid March of this year) until roughly a month ago when I created the MagDK for trials and started converting my magplar and Stamwarden over.

My numbers from June were 26K on magplar and 27K on stamwarden for solo setups on the 21m dummies. So to have lifted them as far plus created a 3rd toon that hits harder feels like I’m doing OK in the process. I’m still lacking monster sets and maelstrom weapons on warden and DK. Zero trials gear as well. Again just part of the process.

thorwyn

Those are my 21m parses. I’m still new and learning the game plus acquiring gear sets to fully flesh out the builds. It’s a process a long and grindy process but a process non the less.

Ok, nothing wrong with that.
However, if I may give you one advice: Do NOT focus too much on gear. Yes it helps, yes it will increase your damage output, but at the end of the day, the biggest chunk of your overall DPS will be generated by your rotation and your weaving. Trust me on that one, I went through exactly the same phase that you are going through, tried to get my gear together and get all the traits and glyphs sorted. But the real breakthrough was completely unrelated to that, it was just getting used to proper weaving. If you are on PC, get an AddOn called LightAttackHelper and CombatMetronome.

Good luck!

Everest_Lionheart

thorwyn wrote: »

Those are my 21m parses. I’m still new and learning the game plus acquiring gear sets to fully flesh out the builds. It’s a process a long and grindy process but a process non the less.

Ok, nothing wrong with that.
However, if I may give you one advice: Do NOT focus too much on gear. Yes it helps, yes it will increase your damage output, but at the end of the day, the biggest chunk of your overall DPS will be generated by your rotation and your weaving. Trust me on that one, I went through exactly the same phase that you are going through, tried to get my gear together and get all the traits and glyphs sorted. But the real breakthrough was completely unrelated to that, it was just getting used to proper weaving. If you are on PC, get an AddOn called LightAttackHelper and CombatMetronome.

Good luck!

Console unfortunately, but I record and watch back every 3rd or 4th run to analyze. Stuck doing it the hard way lol!

I’m definitely becoming more aware of overcasting particularly sun assault on my warden not only wasting stamina but also that it rechannels the ability if I jump the gun on the timer. I’m on top of pots and synergies though but sometimes I miss my netch and the rss struggle hits like a ton of bricks the moment I drop that. It’s a new rotation for me, literally a day old so the bugs will work out in time.

My MagDK sometimes some of the skills don’t appear to fire. You can see on the video where I make the input because the skill will light up but will never go off. That’s a killer especially when it’s my molten whip with the seething fury stacks and it doesn’t hit. That hits for ~50K alone and having it misfire or not fire at all is a massive DPS loss. I also notice the same input issue when building the stacks sometimes. I input the 3 skills in a row but only 2/3 fire so the whip isn’t fully charged and it hits for a lot less. The other killer is there is no indicator for wall anywhere on the boss buff bar or your own, so you have to trust the rotation and make sure you get the wall down. I would say I get probably at least 90% uptime to all my dots

Templar I’ve invested almost zero time into, so I’m winging it for 40K all based on feel. It’s a heavy aoe build with no execute right now so with some love and attention I could probably really build it into a monster. But it’s my least favourite toon to play mostly because he’s a dungeon farming machine and the grind of that makes everything melee boring on it.

MrGhosty

Lysette wrote: »

JumpmanLane wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Khatou wrote: »

oups petit fail au-dessus de la citation...

idk wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Lol, people take the “meta” a little too seriously. I did a Godslayer run a few weeks ago where I played a Magicka Warden Ice Mage DPS, and wore the Ice Furnace set for half the trial. I wouldn’t attempt to score push on that character, but we had over 3 mins to spare on the speed run timer.

You can literally play anything you want and complete all the content in this game. It just takes some practice, research and a lot of testing to make things work if it is not the typical flavor of the month build (where someone else has done all the research and testing).

What is funny is top players do not take meta seriously. Granted, they somewhat define it but what really happens is they test, test, test to get their build as good as they can get it. Even playing the same classes one might fight different builds among the top players. I have seen it.

Edit: I have also seen top players not using what most seem to think is meta. I am not suggesting it is 100% different but certainly shows what thinking for oneself can do. That is what is funniest.

"the best players" still have to be real players, not the kind who say they're good, using a multitude of addons to be able to be good..

It is anyway questionable how "good" a player is who dies a couple times every day on a regular basis - to me this is just ridiculous. it might be fun, I give them that - but how good is a hero who dies on a regular basis - not much of hero to me.

I watched a fool die to a MUD crab today. He had a cool serial killer-type name too. Like he set foot in Tamriel to wreck some shop. But the mud crab got him before he could.

I thought, "That mud crab don't know who he KILLED." While I was laughing to my self he rezzed out. He went right back at it. He almost got dropped again. But I felt sorry for him and slid him a cauterize. The fool angrily asked, "Wtf was that!" And told ME don't be using skills that affect his toon NEAR him.

I WAS gonna challenge to fool to a duel, cause I don't accept back sass from scrubs...but, I let the fool live.

You would wonder how many run around with white weapons and incomplete gear, no food or drink and no idea of how the game works. i see plenty dying to enemies which shouldn't be a problem at all - but they still do. Not to talk about using traitless gear with no enchantment on it - some just don't get it early in the game that this can be done-

V16 mudcrabs still haunt my dreams tbh. It also speaks to lack of proper tutorial in the game as a lot of the details that most vets take for granted aren't really taught. If you're curious and try everything you can get some of the way but I think ZOS crutches on outside content creators way more than they should. I still remember my first day of beta and I kept a robe to put on when I crafted because I misread the trait and thought I was supposed to wear it when I deconned stuff.

As to the OP, I wish more of the thematic sets performed better but nerfing the bis gear isn't the right way to go about it. It seems like some of them will become more viable with the upcoming changes so I'm quite hopeful for that as I am bored to tears of wearing the same gear no matter what toon I'm running on. I would like them to bring all the underperforming sets up a bit so that the gap between the bis vs everything else was similar to the difference between slotting a maelstrom weapon. The people who want to squeeze out those last few drops of performance get their fix and I get to make fancy things happen and not be a hindrance to other players who get paired with me.

Ajaxandriel

Sanguinor2 wrote: »

No one is stopping you from doing whatever you want.
Just dont expect to clear the hardest Content with whatever you choose to equip and think About selecting normal mode for experiencing all Content in PvE instead of vet.

DPS I don’t know but here hypocrisy, sure it’s over 9000

Raudgrani

Everest_Lionheart wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

I never understood why some people play "their own builds", if they don't work at all?

We did a ridiculous "carry run" with a random in Frostvault yesterday, non HM of course. We had this guy with a female toon wearing a Nord Bather's towel and a pointy hat, having the title "Duelist". Dual wielding (with DW abilities), and backbaring a shock staff. CP810. He/she died to everything, everywhere. And spent every bossfight - and the whole "laser phase" - dead on the ground. Even died from all and any sort of trashmob along the way. We didn't kick, because we basically didn't need him, and as it makes many people sad - we agreed to let him tag along, despite his bad performance.

But it makes you wonder. If you are that guy, won't you at least for a moment wonder WHY you are so "bad"? I mean, your build it like half of what you can do, and still sticking to that is like admitting you are a very, very bad player.

Of course you can experiment and have fun though. I once ran Heem-Jas, Dead Water Guild and Balorgh on a Nord StamDK for a while. It was extremely fun, and worked very well in vet non-DLC dungeons, and even a few DLC ones. Leaping and leaping all the time, and actually doing decent damage. I had whispers and such from randoms, asking me how the **** I was able to use the leap so often.
Of course a build like that doesn't work when you are burning some 80 million boss in a trial, and it doesn't benefit you at like Fang Lair vet/hm at the last boss. But for most other things, it's stupid fun - and best of all, you let the tank do the work to round up all the trash you spread across the dungeon with your leaps. They love it.

You are carrying guys like that and meanwhile I’m over here grinding like crazy to get my DPS over the 50K mark so I don’t slow down any vet runs (PUG or organized.) have 3 toons right now, one at 40K (magplar) another at 42 (Stamwarden) and 45K (MagDK)

Now those builds don’t stray too far from the meta. The magplar is a solo centric build that performs well in groups. The stamwarden is a converted solo setup with a large toolkit to adapt to different content. The MagDK is still fresh only a few weeks old made specifically for trials.

Kind of kicking myself for not jumping into vet content sooner because I’m lacking monster sets for any of my builds right now.

Playing with the same people often, is a great way to make a strong team. I have some 4-5 friends that I play with most of the time, and we complement each other very well with ultimates, "off heals", synergies & buffs and so on. All have a few different characters, and it's always like "Ah, you go on your xxx? Then I take my xxx, will you use Master Architect so I can run Two-Fanged instead of Lokke?". Having very good and experienced (and patient! LOL) tanks also makes it a lot easier.

Perhaps none of us have godlike top-score-run-team DPS, but that has never been a problem so far (maybe would be, if we were trying to get some Tick-Tock Tormentor level achievements). Frostvault as in the example, can probably be done with some 20-30k DPS, as long as your know what you are doing, which is way more important.

On the contrary, it's more often you slow down the DPS, and kill trash mobs that spawn on certain %'s, or we'll have too many to handle - like with the last boss in Moon Hunter Keep; while we usually "nuke" the boss prior to her, to ignore the more demanding mechanics.
Yes, maybe many or most of those situations could be handled with some +100k DPS too, but very, very few will ever find out. I think only a few challenges in this game really require that maxed out DPS.

Arunei

I haven't read all the replies here so this might have been mentioned already, but I think one of the problems that comes up is that you can clear a lot of content without running whatever cookie cutter fotm build is the current patch's meta, but that a lot of the time even the casual guilds will still require you to wear that cookie cutter fotm meta. Now whether this is true or not I can't say, as I've never been in a trial or even serious dungeon guild since I don't really run PvE content these days (and I don't PvP at all), but that seems to be the gist whenever I see threads like this and that 'trial guilds need to chill' one pop up.

So we can all agree that you don't need super absolute ultra bis gear to run most content, but I don't think that's where contention lies. The contention lies in groups who won't accept anything other than bis even for content that doesn't require it at all. I believe that's what @Glurin is partly trying to say, that there are groups who require L33T DEEPS even for content that doesn't need it, and that those groups won't accept anything other than bis even if other builds will let a person reach L33T DEEPS or come close to it.

Essentially it's that people put more stock by gear than they do by actual player skill. Like has been said already, a low-skill player can run a perfect copy of a meta build and still suck (like me XD) and a high-skill player can be given okay gear and do amazing. It's not all about gear, but too many people want to make it all about the gear.

amm7sb14_ESO

Arunei wrote: »

I haven't read all the replies here so this might have been mentioned already, but I think one of the problems that comes up is that you can clear a lot of content without running whatever cookie cutter fotm build is the current patch's meta, but that a lot of the time even the casual guilds will still require you to wear that cookie cutter fotm meta. Now whether this is true or not I can't say, as I've never been in a trial or even serious dungeon guild since I don't really run PvE content these days (and I don't PvP at all), but that seems to be the gist whenever I see threads like this and that 'trial guilds need to chill' one pop up.

So we can all agree that you don't need super absolute ultra bis gear to run most content, but I don't think that's where contention lies. The contention lies in groups who won't accept anything other than bis even for content that doesn't require it at all. I believe that's what @Glurin is partly trying to say, that there are groups who require L33T DEEPS even for content that doesn't need it, and that those groups won't accept anything other than bis even if other builds will let a person reach L33T DEEPS or come close to it.

Essentially it's that people put more stock by gear than they do by actual player skill. Like has been said already, a low-skill player can run a perfect copy of a meta build and still suck (like me XD) and a high-skill player can be given okay gear and do amazing. It's not all about gear, but too many people want to make it all about the gear.

Exactly this.

In the minds of these people, there is no room simply for completion. Everything has to be at the highest possible performance AT ALL TIMES and that's just 100% unnecessary.

If you tell me ahead of time "we are doing a score run" and I know that's the objective, then I can run those BiS sets if necessary.

But if we are just doing a regular weekend trial run, I'm running my personalized setup.

universal_wrath

JKorr wrote: »

Khatou wrote: »

We're entitled to tons of very interesting sets, but unfortunately they're barely usable because if we don't have a sufficient set with + in dps we don't type anything at all, it's really confusing the vision of zos for TESO, we're supposed to play what we want but now it's not really the case anymore, only the tanks and the cheat mages by ZOS have the right to get their kicks as well as the berserkers, that's what TESO wants us to play, why not give the freedom to the players to create original builds, isn't that the strength of an MMORPG ?

um...no. There seems to be a portion of the *playerbase* who believes that it is MANDATORY for everyone to do ELEVENTY BILLION KAZILLION dps constantly. If others in the guild/group/whatever DON'T do eleventy billion kazillion DPS all the time, the routine seems to be heap scorn and derision on the "underperformers" and kick them from groups, then heaping various forms of abuse on them in whisper or mail afterward. In other words, the players are enforcing the concept that only the bestest version of whatever is appropriate, not ZOS. Players are free to create original builds. However other players won't let them use the new creative builds because in THEIR viewpoint those creative builds are useless/pointless/crap.

I've seen no announcements from ZOS that there is some kind of requirement for eleventy billion kazillion dps is needed to do any content. Do the harder vet trials need a higher level of performance? Yes. Is there a requirement that forces people to clear any content in 5 seconds or less that would need eleventy billion kazillion dps or your character is insta-killed/deleted from your account? No.

If I play with 810 CP I expect atleast 20k dps which is below average but enough to complete mostt dungeons. I don't care what build you use, but if you only do elemental wall and heavy attacks all the time, you just made it clear you wanted a carry. It never bugged me what people use, in fact I always get curious and ask if it works. if you stand in red circles and you have 810CP and you complain of low healing or dungeon is hard, this is a ticket to kick. If you don't know basic mechanics for last boss of spindleclutch I after 6 years of it being launched, you get kick. that being said, I usually leave instead of bother to kick people, I don't like to kick, people later will realize something is wrong and they quite. Is it hard to ask for basics? or things got too bad that even people wipe on fungul grotto I ?

Everest_Lionheart

Arunei wrote: »

I haven't read all the replies here so this might have been mentioned already, but I think one of the problems that comes up is that you can clear a lot of content without running whatever cookie cutter fotm build is the current patch's meta, but that a lot of the time even the casual guilds will still require you to wear that cookie cutter fotm meta. Now whether this is true or not I can't say, as I've never been in a trial or even serious dungeon guild since I don't really run PvE content these days (and I don't PvP at all), but that seems to be the gist whenever I see threads like this and that 'trial guilds need to chill' one pop up.

So we can all agree that you don't need super absolute ultra bis gear to run most content, but I don't think that's where contention lies. The contention lies in groups who won't accept anything other than bis even for content that doesn't require it at all. I believe that's what @Glurin is partly trying to say, that there are groups who require L33T DEEPS even for content that doesn't need it, and that those groups won't accept anything other than bis even if other builds will let a person reach L33T DEEPS or come close to it.

Essentially it's that people put more stock by gear than they do by actual player skill. Like has been said already, a low-skill player can run a perfect copy of a meta build and still suck (like me XD) and a high-skill player can be given okay gear and do amazing. It's not all about gear, but too many people want to make it all about the gear.

My MagDK (non vamp build) is hitting 48k at CP510 wearing purple Julianos/MS blue rings purple neck with gold weapons double infused and no monster set or maelstrom staff. I’m a console player so there’s no real way to check my metrics only record and analyze videos after the fact to check the in game timers which not all skills, buffs and debuffs are indicated. That 48K was a near perfect rotation with every LA/Skill landing in sequence and at least 90-95% uptime for all dots. I could probably speed up slightly but some of those DK skills you need to be deliberate or they won’t always fire. I have video evidence of it, you see the press but no skill fires and it happens. I believe when you cross the GCD threshold.

Anyway how much more damage would I get changing from my purple Julianos/MS to gold Siroria/Elf Bane with a 1pc Zaan and maelstrom inferno staff plus the additional 300CP? I’m leaving off a significant chunk of damage from that alone.

I mean I could gold out my current gear throw on an monster set (if the boxes would play nice) and change from bar from infused to precise and tighten eliminate the few extra casts and get this particular build up to 52-54K which is my short term goal. Long term I want to be hitting 75-80K and I suspect the other sets and 300CP will get me there.