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A vast majority of players are asking to remove cast times
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Expert✭✭✭✭Cast times has done absolutely nothing but derailed the community from functioning fluidly through their combat techniques.
It's such a mistake for ZOS to constantly disregard the majority and act against what the community wants.
They always flex, "we heard you and so we're doing something about it" but cast times is one of the most disappointing changes i've ever seen and ZOS takes absolute no responsibility.8 -
Anyron✭✭✭✭✭
✭"cast times" on ultimate are right.. You shouldnt be able to fire 2skills + 2 light attacks and ultimate in one second.. I dont get what bothers you on "cast times".. Its only about 400ms?6 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sanguinor2 wrote: »
Yeah, keep telling me how you can anticipate stealth ultis when you cant see or hear them. Everything I have heard so far is rationalization and people patting each other on the back because they agree with each other.
Question: How do cast times help with Stealth ults? Since the cast time is Shorter than cloak Duration you can still cast them invis without getting revealed or did zos do something to make that impossible? Been a while since I last played nightblade.
As it stands you can hear the ultis go off, so you have a short window to react, its small but its there. Before hand you could use said ulti and when the person you attacked heard it, it was already too late because they were damaged before the ulti made any indication .1 -
BohnT2✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"cast times" on ultimate are right.. You shouldnt be able to fire 2skills + 2 light attacks and ultimate in one second.. I dont get what bothers you on "cast times".. Its only about 400ms?
Those 400ms mean people can always react to your ultimate and always avoid it by dodge or block it in the case of undodgeable ults.
There is no chance to outplay opponents as even bad reaction times are enough to stall fights infinitely against much better players1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Strider__Roshin wrote: »It's obvious that this was a bad decision. If ZOS doesn't revert the change it's a clear message that ZOS doesn't only ignore feedback, but also they lack the humility to admit that they were wrong.
Or they just know better in this case and don't listen to people who want something else than reactionary gameplay.
Reactionary gameplay is good and people should have ques to react but if u are basing that concept on less than half a second cast times then u screwed up big time. At their current iteration, those cast times, the only thing they achieve is making combat clunky, not making combat reactive nor do they give time to people to react.
I have plenty of time to react when I see ultis cast now, as it should be, and if I don't pay attention, I still die, as it should be. You however cannot react to something you cannot percieve, it's basic physics.
It's called anticipation and knowing the game. When you see a warden sub lining up, you should know what is coming for example. In fact that's what you are prety much doing now. Not actually seeing the ult beforehand and then reacting. And since you are talking about physics, you should probably know that is dumb to base the combat system around less than half a second reaction times.
And if you are going to implement a cast time on abilities, the abilities have to be designed with cast time in mind. Those ults were designed as instant. Slapping a cast time on them changes their design. They didn't implement counterplay. They essentially just nerfed instant burst ults and made combat clunky. And ironically even the reason they did this, is a total failure.
A low reaction time is better than none. And there is nothing you can say that would change my mind. Cast times on ultimates are fine, abilities should not do damage before they hit, that's just toxic gameplay. And I am 100 percent fine with the cast times. And clearly some agree, as well as the Devs.
Reaction time was and is virtually non-existent with performance as it is, and likely as it will always be. If you think there's reactive gameplay in PvP, you really don't know what you're talking about. Everything is predictive, not reactive.
Lets see, I see an ulti animation, i react. Seems pretty reactive to me. The devs stated they wanted reactive gameplay, not predictive.5 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_TrishM wrote: »Greetings,
We've had to remove several posts for baiting and flaming, content that is against our Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment.
Thank you for understanding.
How did I know the only reply from Zenimax Employees is COPY AND PASTE.
Stop insulting people and they wont have to come in and edit posts.0 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Anotherone773 wrote: »Cast time on ults doesn't make pve more challenging.
It does when you have to consider things like being interrupted, losing LoS or range, or needing to counter something else. When everything is instant, you dont have to think about timing, Just 1,la,2,la,3,ha,4,la,5,la,ws,1,la,2,la,3,ha,4,la,5,la,ws, repeat until target dies. Kind of like marching... Left, left, left, right, left! Gee that is challenging!
" Can you push buttons in a certain order?"
"I dont know... can you put these geometrically shaped wood blocks in the correct geometrically shaped holes?"So as the owner of said business, you'd abandon your own vision without even attempting to see it thru? Because a percentage (I won't use numbers because only ZOS has all the data) of your customers disagrees with your vision? Especially customers who disrespect and insult your competence?
Or would you not mind losing those customers who will never appreciate your vision in favor of finding new customers that will?
I've seen quite a few posts happy about the change. Again, not a fan of cast times, but my opinion is no more or less worthy as those for them. At least that's how I see it.
As a game designer its okay to take criticism, actually its apart of the job. Heres the issue, ZOS refuses to ever revert. When I was a combat designer I reverted based on feedback from vast majority of the players, ZOS does not. ZOS wont listen.
You realize these forums are just a tiny fraction of user feedback for this game, right? And that Gina collects data from multiple sources for feedback? AND that the general opinions of the people on this forum rarely are in sync to the rest of the games population, right?
Someone else that gets it.2 -
killingspreeb16_ESO✭✭✭✭."cast times" on ultimate are right.. You shouldnt be able to fire 2skills + 2 light attacks and ultimate in one second.. I dont get what bothers you on "cast times".. Its only about 400ms?
Do people even read or inform themself before posting no sense?i guess not
You can't fire 3/4 skill at the same time period.8 -
Maybe it's to slow down almost instant firing of skill combos using macros- a problem that exists in other games when there is no delay between skills.
Or maybe it's seen as a way of slowing down DPS creep, or to make combat more interesting for the average players.
Plenty of reasons to rein in combat mechanics and make them more interesting.0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"cast times" on ultimate are right.. You shouldnt be able to fire 2skills + 2 light attacks and ultimate in one second.. I dont get what bothers you on "cast times".. Its only about 400ms?
You're surely aware that there's such a thing that is called global cooldown, and even before cast times, there had to be at least one second before any subsequent skill/ultimate cast. What you say is: 1) uninformed superstition, 2) has nothing to do with the problem at hand, because while global cooldown dictates (as it always had) minimum time between skill casts (including ultimates), cast times introduce a harmful time between action and effect, so it's basically an artificially created lag. Now, I suppose you -love- playing with 400ms ping, but not everyone adores network lags. And I'm not even mentioning that it harms such thing as swap-cancelling that used to greatly add to fluidity of rotations.
@victory.immortalb16_ESO , you can't fire a succession of skills instantly, macros can't help you with it, because global cooldowns are server-side. It's about time to bury those myths already.Edited by John_Falstaff on January 30, 2020 1:21PM8 -
sweatapodimas✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »"cast times" on ultimate are right.. You shouldnt be able to fire 2skills + 2 light attacks and ultimate in one second.. I dont get what bothers you on "cast times".. Its only about 400ms?
You're surely aware that there's such a thing that is called global cooldown, and even before cast times, there had to be at least one second before any subsequent skill/ultimate cast. What you say is: 1) uninformed superstition, 2) has nothing to do with the problem at hand, because while global cooldown dictates (as it always had) minimum time between skill casts (including ultimates), cast times introduce a harmful time between action and effect, so it's basically an artificially created lag. Now, I suppose you -love- playing with 400ms ping, but not everyone adores network lags. And I'm not even mentioning that it harms such thing as swap-cancelling that used to greatly add to fluidity of rotations.
@victory.immortalb16_ESO , you can't fire a succession of skills instantly, macros can't help you with it, because global cooldowns are server-side. It's about time to bury those myths already.
This...in pvp people had no problem dodging DBOS or incap/soulH if they were paying attention. Lazy play equals death"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa0 -
Starlock✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭WARNING - UNPOPULAR COMMENT FOLLOWS
If nobody had told me certain ultimates got a cast time, I wouldn't even know it had happened. Even knowing it has happened, the characters I have who have some cast time ultimates are... working exactly the same as they did before. I'm not noticing any difference. Which means the impact this has on my gameplay is somewhere around zero.
Granted, some of this is likely because there is often a half second lag between when I do anything in this game and stuff happens on the screen anyway. There's nothing to notice because it's business as usual. But even if this game was super smooth, I doubt I could find myself caring about not even a half second delay. I'm just not that twitchy.
What ultis are you using?
Mostly my magblade... who I take into Cyro to get event tickets because she is super sneak. Apparently soul tether has a cast time. Seriously didn’t notice and had no idea until I looked at it a few days ago and went “huh, so this is one they added a cast time to? Kay... feels exactly the same...”0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"cast times" on ultimate are right.. You shouldnt be able to fire 2skills + 2 light attacks and ultimate in one second.. I dont get what bothers you on "cast times".. Its only about 400ms?
Classic example of who those cast times are suppose to help. People who don't have a damn clue about the game and will never learn cause quite frankly you are too ignorant to learn.11 -
holden_caulfield✭✭✭The problem according to my understanding is that casting times cause a loss of burst damage in a two skills combo ( First instant second delayed so there are more than a second between the two) and that damage skills whose visual clues start before the real effect give to the enemy time to react (as warden's Bird).
Am I correct?
0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭holden_caulfield wrote: »The problem according to my understanding is that casting times cause a loss of burst damage in a two skills combo ( First instant second delayed so there are more than a second between the two) and that damage skills whose visual clues start before the real effect give to the enemy time to react (as warden's Bird).
Am I correct?
There are more issue with cast times than that.
First, cast times don't neccessary result in lower burst combos - if you use a skill with a cast time first, the follow up dmg will land closer to the first hit. Skills with cast times were/are often used in gank combos actually. This also means the whole "cast times prevent players from hitting multiple skills at once" argument that is often brought up by the "pro cast time faction" is nonsense.
Skills not landing at all is an issue tho. Defensive maneuvers such as block or dodge are always aviable and more or less spammable. Ultimates are not. You can even accidentially avoid those by simply walking out of range during the cast time or interrupt the cast with some random cc.
Not only this, the cast times even punish agressive play - because a player is very vulnerable while casting, and rewards defensive play - you can imagine the results in a game where stalemates have been a common thing even before cast times, most affected ultimates have been nerfed in addition to the cast times after being deemed balanced for years and powerful defensive sets and healing buffs have been implemented.
The balance between offense and defense gets shifted competely towards the defensive side.
But it also makes the gameplay feel much slower and clunky and less fun. Which gets much worse in lag, because what is supposed to be 0,4-0,5s becomes much longer - and performance in this game is horrible, with no improvement in sight.
Additionally the decision which skills get a cast time and which don't wasn't very thought out, resulting in balance issues between classes/skills.
2 -
darthgummibear_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »And I'm not even mentioning that it harms such thing as swap-cancelling that used to greatly add to fluidity of rotations.
I've actually had a lot of broken rotations since this change because of swapping too fast and the ultimate never going off.
5 -
sweatapodimas✭✭✭darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »And I'm not even mentioning that it harms such thing as swap-cancelling that used to greatly add to fluidity of rotations.
I've actually had a lot of broken rotations since this change because of swapping too fast and the ultimate never going off.
Yes I think that this affects bar-swapping the most. Many of my PVE friends hate this change, I mean HATE it..."Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" - Frank Zappa0 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WARNING - UNPOPULAR COMMENT FOLLOWS
If nobody had told me certain ultimates got a cast time, I wouldn't even know it had happened. Even knowing it has happened, the characters I have who have some cast time ultimates are... working exactly the same as they did before. I'm not noticing any difference. Which means the impact this has on my gameplay is somewhere around zero.
Granted, some of this is likely because there is often a half second lag between when I do anything in this game and stuff happens on the screen anyway. There's nothing to notice because it's business as usual. But even if this game was super smooth, I doubt I could find myself caring about not even a half second delay. I'm just not that twitchy.
What ultis are you using?
Mostly my magblade... who I take into Cyro to get event tickets because she is super sneak. Apparently soul tether has a cast time. Seriously didn’t notice and had no idea until I looked at it a few days ago and went “huh, so this is one they added a cast time to? Kay... feels exactly the same...”
Do you bar swap to fire the ulti?Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
ZonasArch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »And I'm not even mentioning that it harms such thing as swap-cancelling that used to greatly add to fluidity of rotations.
I've actually had a lot of broken rotations since this change because of swapping too fast and the ultimate never going off.
The very definition of l2p right there....1 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭darthgummibear_ESO wrote: »John_Falstaff wrote: »And I'm not even mentioning that it harms such thing as swap-cancelling that used to greatly add to fluidity of rotations.
I've actually had a lot of broken rotations since this change because of swapping too fast and the ultimate never going off.
The very definition of l2p right there....
I don't think you thought through what you said; that, or you should learn how to play, yourself. Before cast time introduction, as sNB for example, you had to swap-cancel Incap from back bar because it had travel time anyway (speaking about how pointless it was to introduce cast time on it), and if you wanted the Incap damage tick to land with front bar stats, you had to swap to back bar during your front bar rotation, then swap-cancel Incap back onto the front bar. Now, it doesn't work anymore because you can't swap-cancel an ultimate with cast time any longer - that's an objectively broken rotation for you right there. There's now less to learn than before as the game is being dumbed down.1 -
FrankonPC✭✭✭✭✭"cast times" on ultimate are right.. You shouldnt be able to fire 2skills + 2 light attacks and ultimate in one second.. I dont get what bothers you on "cast times".. Its only about 400ms?
There's a global cooldown on abilities cast. 1 second per ability. It's literally impossible within the game to hit "2 skills and 2 abilities" in one second besides synergies.
It's not .4 seconds, it's 1.4 seconds1 -
kalunte✭✭✭✭✭About cast times, ofc they are *** (even on casted abilities) but at least those abilities like snipe/dizzy have some extra strengh on it compared to instants.
ults arent considered this way, they are supposed to be better than regular skill, but nothing in the way of how regular casted skills are compared to instants.
second point is that all ults should have cast time or none. (my choice goes for none).1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"cast times" on ultimate are right.. You shouldnt be able to fire 2skills + 2 light attacks and ultimate in one second.. I dont get what bothers you on "cast times".. Its only about 400ms?
Classic example of who those cast times are suppose to help. People who don't have a damn clue about the game and will never learn cause quite frankly you are too ignorant to learn.
Pretty sure the ones hurling insults at anyone who speaks out against the people patting each other on the back about toxic gameplay are the problem.0 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ask any mid to high tier NB how incap feels since they added cast time. Some of you clearly have never played a medium armor glass cannon build that relies on precise timing to pull off.Edited by Fur_like_snow on February 1, 2020 12:18PM1 -
TheFM✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Ask any mid to high tier NB how incap feels since they added cast time. Some of you clearly have never played a medium armor glass cannon build that relies on precise timing to pull off.
So because nightblades were spoiled by exploiting lag and desync it should always stay that way. No.1 -
Fur_like_snow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Ask any mid to high tier NB how incap feels since they added cast time. Some of you clearly have never played a medium armor glass cannon build that relies on precise timing to pull off.
So because nightblades were spoiled by exploiting lag and desync it should always stay that way. No.
What does your average ping look like in Cyrodiil? Have you played a glass cannon medium armor build this patch? I didn’t have those issues fighting NBs so It sounds like to me the problem is on your end. Also what is your highest PvP rank on what class/build?Edited by Fur_like_snow on February 1, 2020 12:27PM0 -
Dr_Ganknstein✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pvp feels so clunky now with these cast times. Clunky isnt good. When a friend of mine asked how eso was had to tell him "clunky".2 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Fur_like_snow wrote: »Ask any mid to high tier NB how incap feels since they added cast time. Some of you clearly have never played a medium armor glass cannon build that relies on precise timing to pull off.
So because nightblades were spoiled by exploiting lag and desync it should always stay that way. No.
If the game has lag and desync, the answer is to fix lag and desync, not introduce artificial lag for all players. You want to play game that equalizes players with 50ms and 2s ping? Play chess. People are here after dynamic combat experience.6
