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• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
Rich Lambert announced a new combat system
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Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I find the difference between the originally-there text and the what's-there-now text very interesting.
Does the person writing the website not know how to transcribe verbatim or were they always paraphrasing? Google translate or not, the content is totally different now.
Whatever the case, no reason to trust that website now.
This whole incident smells fishy.
Edited by Dusk_Coven on January 24, 2020 3:41PM2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »I find the difference between the originally-there text and the what's-there-now text very interesting.
Does the person writing the website not know how to transcribe verbatim or were they always paraphrasing? Google translate or not, the content is totally different now.
Whatever the case, no reason to trust that website now.
This whole incident smells fishy.
Well I wouldn't take anything too seriously unless confirmed by Zenimax. However it is clear as day that they are on the process of completely reworking how the combat works. Cast times, travel times, nerfs to block cancelling etc. Should be a bigger picture they aim to achieve, no?Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 24, 2020 3:44PM0 -
Dusk_Coven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Dusk_Coven wrote: »I find the difference between the originally-there text and the what's-there-now text very interesting.
Does the person writing the website not know how to transcribe verbatim or were they always paraphrasing? Google translate or not, the content is totally different now.
Whatever the case, no reason to trust that website now.
This whole incident smells fishy.
Well I wouldn't take anything too seriously unless confirmed by Zenimax. However it is clear as day that they are on the process of completely reworking how the combat works. Cast times, travel times, nerfs to block cancelling etc. Should be a bigger picture they aim to achieve, no?
My point is the radically different versions -- combat changes in version 1, game performance in version 2.
It's like version 1 is "Rich Lambert talked about apples". But Version 2 is "Rich Lambert talked about oranges."
It's no simple misunderstanding or slight miswording here.
Or is a native Russian speaker going to say "combat changes" sounds awfully like "game performance" in either spoken or written Russian?Edited by Dusk_Coven on January 24, 2020 3:51PM1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The op should really change the title at this point, the zos post basically confirmed that some part of it was bs, as i thought.2 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »animation cancelling is obviously a feature in the game.
This is not WoW where we wait for abilities to finish casting or load
This is an Action combat system
80% of ability is WoW are prety much instant what the hell are you talking about lol the fluid and smoot combat is the best part of WoW basically the only reason im still playing it....
Animation canceling was a design bug that they were lazy to fix and just said OH its a feature now so no it never was "obivously a feature"
Animation canceling makes the combat and animations look *** and outdated the end.
No, animation cancelling was an intended mechanic to allow players to immediately and consistently react to incoming attacks by dodging/blocking/etc. If it didn't exist, you wouldn't be able to perform any action while in the animation of another action, and that's what it's there to fix.
What was unintended was players learning how it works, and exploiting it so effectively that they can significantly improve their damage output.
This is wrong. Animation canceling was always a bug in the game mechanic that ZOS was aware about and wanted to get rid of in 2014 / 2015. Their plan was always to fix this during ESOs early years.
They couldn’t fix it (like they couldn’t or can’t fix a lot of things still) and then it subsequently became a feature, even moreso after the sustain and LA/HA changes several years ago.
Exploiting a mechanic should never result in a new feature and everything that is exploitable should get fixed ASAP. I pray to the Daedric Princes that they are ardently working on finally getting rid of this mess.
I'm not just talking about weaving, I'm talking about animation cancelling as a whole. Weaving, block cancelling, bash cancelling, dodge cancelling, bar swap cancelling, everything cancelling.
Animation cancelling as a whole was 100% intended, because it's a requirement in having an active combat system be reliable and responsive for users.
See literally any game that has an active combat system, and note how they all have animation cancelling to some degree. Better yet, see Path of Exile having to retroactively implement it into an existing combat system to have melee be playable without having to stack attack speed.
Animation cancelling is necessary for responsiveness. Without it, they have to slow combat way down, so players have a chance to react to an attack without being stuck in an animation.
Again, what wasn't intended was players learning and exploiting it as they do, and that is probably what they tried to fix. Not animation cancelling, but how it interacts with skills and enables you to cut animations short while still retaining the functionality of the skill.
They cannot fix that without moving away from truly instant skills, and towards short cast time skills. See how the community has reacted to ults having cast times, if you want an insight as to even a modicum of the rage if Zenimax were to do this.
If you want an insight as to how the game would play without animation cancelling, go run any content that has telegraphed one-shot mechanics (ideally ones you have to block, dodge, or bash), and wait until your character returns to the idle pose before performing any action.
EDIT: As I said in another thread, something as complex yet predictable as animation cancelling doesn't just accidentally itself into existence. That's not how software bugs work. There's an underlying system behind animation cancelling, and that system is what was intended, which, by extension, makes animation cancelling intended.Edited by jcm2606 on January 24, 2020 4:21PM5 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dusk_Coven wrote: »I find the difference between the originally-there text and the what's-there-now text very interesting.
Does the person writing the website not know how to transcribe verbatim or were they always paraphrasing? Google translate or not, the content is totally different now.
Whatever the case, no reason to trust that website now.
This whole incident smells fishy.
@Dusk_Coven
Please take note of Gina's post in this thread as it clears up what occurred. Probably a translation issue that has since been clarified. I doubt it is more than that.ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that although this was a legitimate interview with Rich, some of the initial answers did not represent what was actually said. We reached out to the site to provide clarification, and they have since updated their article with responses that more accurately reflect what Rich had initially conveyed. To be clear, we are not currently planning to create a new combat system for ESO, and Spellcrafting isn’t currently on our future roadmap. As the most recent reply from the article states, our current priority is on game performance. Apologies for the confusion this caused.1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The op should really change the title at this point, the zos post basically confirmed that some part of it was bs, as i thought.
Yes. It would also be good to edit the OP itself as OP has acknowledged in a later post the article has been edited and now Gina has clarified that there was an error with the original article that Zos has worked to clarify. +2 -
zaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
This, note that it was an outcry in WOW community then more skills was added to the global cooldown.Seraphayel wrote: »animation cancelling is obviously a feature in the game.
This is not WoW where we wait for abilities to finish casting or load
This is an Action combat system
80% of ability is WoW are prety much instant what the hell are you talking about lol the fluid and smoot combat is the best part of WoW basically the only reason im still playing it....
Animation canceling was a design bug that they were lazy to fix and just said OH its a feature now so no it never was "obivously a feature"
Animation canceling makes the combat and animations look *** and outdated the end.
No, animation cancelling was an intended mechanic to allow players to immediately and consistently react to incoming attacks by dodging/blocking/etc. If it didn't exist, you wouldn't be able to perform any action while in the animation of another action, and that's what it's there to fix.
What was unintended was players learning how it works, and exploiting it so effectively that they can significantly improve their damage output.
This is wrong. Animation canceling was always a bug in the game mechanic that ZOS was aware about and wanted to get rid of in 2014 / 2015. Their plan was always to fix this during ESOs early years.
They couldn’t fix it (like they couldn’t or can’t fix a lot of things still) and then it subsequently became a feature, even moreso after the sustain and LA/HA changes several years ago.
Exploiting a mechanic should never result in a new feature and everything that is exploitable should get fixed ASAP. I pray to the Daedric Princes that they are ardently working on finally getting rid of this mess.
I'm not just talking about weaving, I'm talking about animation cancelling as a whole. Weaving, block cancelling, bash cancelling, dodge cancelling, bar swap cancelling, everything cancelling.
Animation cancelling as a whole was 100% intended, because it's a requirement in having an active combat system be reliable and responsive for users.
See literally any game that has an active combat system, and note how they all have animation cancelling to some degree. Better yet, see Path of Exile having to retroactively implement it into an existing combat system to have melee be playable without having to stack attack speed.
Animation cancelling is necessary for responsiveness. Without it, they have to slow combat way down, so players have a chance to react to an attack without being stuck in an animation.
Again, what wasn't intended was players learning and exploiting it as they do, and that is probably what they tried to fix. Not animation cancelling, but how it interacts with skills and enables you to cut animations short while still retaining the functionality of the skill.
They cannot fix that without moving away from truly instant skills, and towards short cast time skills. See how the community has reacted to ults having cast times, if you want an insight as to even a modicum of the rage if Zenimax were to do this.
If you want an insight as to how the game would play without animation cancelling, go run any content that has telegraphed one-shot mechanics (ideally ones you have to block, dodge, or bash), and wait until your character returns to the idle pose before performing any action.
EDIT: As I said in another thread, something as complex yet predictable as animation cancelling doesn't just accidentally itself into existence. That's not how software bugs work. There's an underlying system behind animation cancelling, and that system is what was intended, which, by extension, makes animation cancelling intended.
So they could remove weaving, but then they has to re balance a lot and lots of sets depend on LA to trigger.
Grinding just make you go in circles.
Asking ZoS for nerfs is as stupid as asking for close air support from the death star.2 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
This, note that it was an outcry in WOW community then more skills was added to the global cooldown.Seraphayel wrote: »animation cancelling is obviously a feature in the game.
This is not WoW where we wait for abilities to finish casting or load
This is an Action combat system
80% of ability is WoW are prety much instant what the hell are you talking about lol the fluid and smoot combat is the best part of WoW basically the only reason im still playing it....
Animation canceling was a design bug that they were lazy to fix and just said OH its a feature now so no it never was "obivously a feature"
Animation canceling makes the combat and animations look *** and outdated the end.
No, animation cancelling was an intended mechanic to allow players to immediately and consistently react to incoming attacks by dodging/blocking/etc. If it didn't exist, you wouldn't be able to perform any action while in the animation of another action, and that's what it's there to fix.
What was unintended was players learning how it works, and exploiting it so effectively that they can significantly improve their damage output.
This is wrong. Animation canceling was always a bug in the game mechanic that ZOS was aware about and wanted to get rid of in 2014 / 2015. Their plan was always to fix this during ESOs early years.
They couldn’t fix it (like they couldn’t or can’t fix a lot of things still) and then it subsequently became a feature, even moreso after the sustain and LA/HA changes several years ago.
Exploiting a mechanic should never result in a new feature and everything that is exploitable should get fixed ASAP. I pray to the Daedric Princes that they are ardently working on finally getting rid of this mess.
I'm not just talking about weaving, I'm talking about animation cancelling as a whole. Weaving, block cancelling, bash cancelling, dodge cancelling, bar swap cancelling, everything cancelling.
Animation cancelling as a whole was 100% intended, because it's a requirement in having an active combat system be reliable and responsive for users.
See literally any game that has an active combat system, and note how they all have animation cancelling to some degree. Better yet, see Path of Exile having to retroactively implement it into an existing combat system to have melee be playable without having to stack attack speed.
Animation cancelling is necessary for responsiveness. Without it, they have to slow combat way down, so players have a chance to react to an attack without being stuck in an animation.
Again, what wasn't intended was players learning and exploiting it as they do, and that is probably what they tried to fix. Not animation cancelling, but how it interacts with skills and enables you to cut animations short while still retaining the functionality of the skill.
They cannot fix that without moving away from truly instant skills, and towards short cast time skills. See how the community has reacted to ults having cast times, if you want an insight as to even a modicum of the rage if Zenimax were to do this.
If you want an insight as to how the game would play without animation cancelling, go run any content that has telegraphed one-shot mechanics (ideally ones you have to block, dodge, or bash), and wait until your character returns to the idle pose before performing any action.
EDIT: As I said in another thread, something as complex yet predictable as animation cancelling doesn't just accidentally itself into existence. That's not how software bugs work. There's an underlying system behind animation cancelling, and that system is what was intended, which, by extension, makes animation cancelling intended.
So they could remove weaving, but then they has to re balance a lot and lots of sets depend on LA to trigger.
And I can guarantee Zenimax wouldn't put the effort into rebalancing the entire game to suit like an extra half a second to a second effectively being on the GCD, thanks to animations having to end before you can do literally anything else.2 -
MEBengalsFan2001✭✭✭✭✭I use to play two other MMO games where players, end game players specifically, made request that the game was to easy and that the game had to be adjusted because it was to easy. This resulted in both of those games going through full changes not only to combat but also to class skills, etc..
I left both games after the updates. Both games became generic and boring do to the changes. Both took out buff/debuff, reduced self buffs, etc...gear was adjusted, etc.. when it was all said and done both games were so changed that a good portion of players QUIT.
Now adjusting combat is ok if it is done properly and improves the game. I have seen this done as well and seen it work well and also not so much. I just don't want to see a post from the developers stating we are adjusting combat, class skills, gear, etc... A big update impacting more than one area of the game typically has a negative response to it and that is do to the loss of the overall player base from so many calling it quit. Typically the ones quitting are your support players; making running content even harder than it was before or seeing someone who never really play support trying to tank or heal.
Edited by MEBengalsFan2001 on January 24, 2020 4:46PM0 -
luizpaulom17✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »animation cancelling is obviously a feature in the game.
This is not WoW where we wait for abilities to finish casting or load
This is an Action combat system
80% of ability is WoW are prety much instant what the hell are you talking about lol the fluid and smoot combat is the best part of WoW basically the only reason im still playing it....
Animation canceling was a design bug that they were lazy to fix and just said OH its a feature now so no it never was "obivously a feature"
Animation canceling makes the combat and animations look *** and outdated the end.
No, animation cancelling was an intended mechanic to allow players to immediately and consistently react to incoming attacks by dodging/blocking/etc. If it didn't exist, you wouldn't be able to perform any action while in the animation of another action, and that's what it's there to fix.
What was unintended was players learning how it works, and exploiting it so effectively that they can significantly improve their damage output.
This is wrong. Animation canceling was always a bug in the game mechanic that ZOS was aware about and wanted to get rid of in 2014 / 2015. Their plan was always to fix this during ESOs early years.
They couldn’t fix it (like they couldn’t or can’t fix a lot of things still) and then it subsequently became a feature, even moreso after the sustain and LA/HA changes several years ago.
Exploiting a mechanic should never result in a new feature and everything that is exploitable should get fixed ASAP. I pray to the Daedric Princes that they are ardently working on finally getting rid of this mess.
I'm not just talking about weaving, I'm talking about animation cancelling as a whole. Weaving, block cancelling, bash cancelling, dodge cancelling, bar swap cancelling, everything cancelling.
Animation cancelling as a whole was 100% intended, because it's a requirement in having an active combat system be reliable and responsive for users.
See literally any game that has an active combat system, and note how they all have animation cancelling to some degree. Better yet, see Path of Exile having to retroactively implement it into an existing combat system to have melee be playable without having to stack attack speed.
Animation cancelling is necessary for responsiveness. Without it, they have to slow combat way down, so players have a chance to react to an attack without being stuck in an animation.
Again, what wasn't intended was players learning and exploiting it as they do, and that is probably what they tried to fix. Not animation cancelling, but how it interacts with skills and enables you to cut animations short while still retaining the functionality of the skill.
They cannot fix that without moving away from truly instant skills, and towards short cast time skills. See how the community has reacted to ults having cast times, if you want an insight as to even a modicum of the rage if Zenimax were to do this.
If you want an insight as to how the game would play without animation cancelling, go run any content that has telegraphed one-shot mechanics (ideally ones you have to block, dodge, or bash), and wait until your character returns to the idle pose before performing any action.
EDIT: As I said in another thread, something as complex yet predictable as animation cancelling doesn't just accidentally itself into existence. That's not how software bugs work. There's an underlying system behind animation cancelling, and that system is what was intended, which, by extension, makes animation cancelling intended.
Sry m8 but U are wrong. There is a print from ma girl @ZOS_GinaBruno saying Animation Canceling is non intended, and clever, exploit of the game that ended becoming a feature, due to positive feed back from playes. Imo I think that one of the major problems with this game is that they never really fully designed a combat system. ESO cambat system as of today was created mostly by its player base, with some minor modifications from devs, (mostly nerfs/buffs, very few redesign) which were made positive feed back and from the whining from the forum PVPers. Its true that we have seen some changes last year with redesign of skills but that was very poorly done, the only exception being Sorc knifes. Most of their combat ideias from Vanilla ESO didnt work, like HA for sustain.
Also, no need to worry, they wont redesign the combat system. The couldnt even redesign CP and are trying to hide that till people start asking questiona here again lol. If players dont do anything, U wont see the new CP system so soon!Edited by luizpaulom17 on January 24, 2020 4:47PM2 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »DukeDiewalker wrote: »If they really want to remove animation cancelling from the game, they might as well just shut down the servers now.
That would inevitably ruin what makes ESO unique and good and fun. And ultimately KILL the game.
If you don't like animation cancelling and don't want to learn, I advice you pick a different game or stick to the easy solo content.
A broken gameplay mechanic doesn’t make ESO unique, good and fun.
_____
There should be an official post about all the interview answers they gave in the last week, it’s silly to have it all spread out in different languages.
It is not a broken gameplay mechanic nor has it ever been a bug. The combat design of this game was very intentional. While Something being unintended is not the same as being broken or a bug.
Regardless, Gina has confirmed the information in the OP/the original version of the article, is incorrect. There is no new combat system being developed, only what Zos has been implementing over the past year. That means Zos is still keeping AC as a legitimate part of the game. It is here to stay.3 -
Bluepitbull13✭✭✭✭zadrotscrolls wrote: »Interview from russian mmo-portal https://www.goha.ru
Google translate:Thanks. Since we were talking about the battle, what about the combat system? Will there be a revision and its processing? Not everyone likes the constant dilution of abilities with quick attacks, interruption of animations and other crutches. Looking forward to the best?
Yes. We plan to radically redesign the combat system. On the one hand, our goal is to make the rotation of abilities interesting, without undue simplification, on the other hand, we do not want to depersonalize classes and characters. This is a complex process, but we are working hard and while in closed mode we are testing a new combat system, we think the players will like it.
And what?And now what? I have been training rotation with light attacks for so long, brought them to automatism for so long. And now the combat system will feel like a necromancer?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that although this was a legitimate interview with Rich, some of the initial answers did not represent what was actually said. We reached out to the site to provide clarification, and they have since updated their article with responses that more accurately reflect what Rich had initially conveyed. To be clear, we are not currently planning to create a new combat system for ESO, and Spellcrafting isn’t currently on our future roadmap. As the most recent reply from the article states, our current priority is on game performance. Apologies for the confusion this caused.
Gina responded on page 4, please add an update to your original post or title stating that there was a mistranslation. Reason being that some people here in the ESO forums are not going to read 5 pages to realize that the Russian article has been updated and unlikely to click another link.
sorry forgot to ping you @zadrotscrollsEdited by Bluepitbull13 on January 24, 2020 5:30PMPC-NA1 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »DukeDiewalker wrote: »If they really want to remove animation cancelling from the game, they might as well just shut down the servers now.
That would inevitably ruin what makes ESO unique and good and fun. And ultimately KILL the game.
If you don't like animation cancelling and don't want to learn, I advice you pick a different game or stick to the easy solo content.
A broken gameplay mechanic doesn’t make ESO unique, good and fun.
_____
There should be an official post about all the interview answers they gave in the last week, it’s silly to have it all spread out in different languages.
It is not a broken gameplay mechanic nor has it ever been a bug. The combat design of this game was very intentional. While Something being unintended is not the same as being broken or a bug.
Regardless, Gina has confirmed the information in the OP/the original version of the article, is incorrect. There is no new combat system being developed, only what Zos has been implementing over the past year. That means Zos is still keeping AC as a legitimate part of the game. It is here to stay.
I was never talking about a new combat system. That never was on the plate. Removing or fixing animation canceling would make it a new combat system either.
It’s quite revealing that Gina said they aren’t working on a new combat system (which is absolutely logical unless they would change to a tab target system etc) but never denied any of the animation canceling changes mentioned.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -0 -
Bluepitbull13✭✭✭✭sorry forgot to ping you @zadrotscrolls
The only thing I am advocating is that it is not the fault of the OP creator that article has been changed and that it is not his duty to reflect all article changes possible for the publishing life of the article in his OP.its not a troll article. its a troll "translation" Rich mentioned balancing and that its on their list of priorities once performance updates are done. and that they will release a roadmap once they have it.Once again, when I looked at the article and ran it through Google Translate there was nothing like what is posted in the OP. The "new combat system" is what Zos has already been implementing over the past year.
The answer specifically states they are working polishing and balancing the new combat system which is exactly what Zos is doing right now.
Really, what is the need to blame OP? If you have read this thread as well a a discussion under the interview you would know that answer to that question was changed. That is the reason of translation in the current OP being different from current article.
@Olauron
I specifically noted what is posted in the OP and was not mentioning the person who posted the original post. In other words, I made a factual statement about the text in the OP.
Also, if you had bothered to read the several posts you would see that people are still taking what is posted in the OP as what that article currently states because the OP has not changed it. People tend to not read entire threads so they would miss the information pointing out that the text in the OP no longer reflects what the article states.
So what you should be advocating is the OP edit the original post to reflect what the article currently states so people get the correct information vs scolding someone for being factually correct.
@Olauron the OP is not responsible for adding all the changes for the publishing life of the article, but the OP should at the very least add an update to his original post stating that there was a mistranslation. Gina a ZOS representative already stated on page 4 that this was a mistranslation. People aren't always going to read 5 pages to understand that this was the case, that's why there has been responses in the previous pages thinking that the Russian article was accurate when it's not.
If you don't like animation cancelling and light attack weaving that's fine, spreading misinformation about an article that's no longer accurate is not fine.Edited by Bluepitbull13 on January 24, 2020 5:32PMPC-NA1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »DukeDiewalker wrote: »If they really want to remove animation cancelling from the game, they might as well just shut down the servers now.
That would inevitably ruin what makes ESO unique and good and fun. And ultimately KILL the game.
If you don't like animation cancelling and don't want to learn, I advice you pick a different game or stick to the easy solo content.
A broken gameplay mechanic doesn’t make ESO unique, good and fun.
_____
There should be an official post about all the interview answers they gave in the last week, it’s silly to have it all spread out in different languages.
It is not a broken gameplay mechanic nor has it ever been a bug. The combat design of this game was very intentional. While Something being unintended is not the same as being broken or a bug.
Regardless, Gina has confirmed the information in the OP/the original version of the article, is incorrect. There is no new combat system being developed, only what Zos has been implementing over the past year. That means Zos is still keeping AC as a legitimate part of the game. It is here to stay.
I was never talking about a new combat system. That never was on the plate. Removing or fixing animation canceling would make it a new combat system either.
It’s quite revealing that Gina said they aren’t working on a new combat system (which is absolutely logical unless they would change to a tab target system etc) but never denied any of the animation canceling changes mentioned.
I never said you were discussion a new combat system was begin deployed. I merely said AC is not going anywhere as it would require a rework to the current combat system as Gina stated and you acknowledge. You seem to agree since you note to remove AC would make it a new combat system, though it is actually more a requirement to change the base design in order to eliminate AC but that is splitting hairs.0 -
Olauron✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Do you think I am opposing changes to the original post? I am not. At the same time I don't feel the need to pressure "change it, change it, change it". I know that I wouldn't lose information in such a case, as the first thing I do in a thread that is of interest to me is reading developer comments when available. Usually even before reading the first post.Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@Olauron the OP is not responsible for adding all the changes for the publishing life of the article, but the OP should at the very least add an update to his original post stating that there was a mistranslation. Gina a ZOS representative already stated on page 4 that this was a mistranslation. People aren't always going to read 5 pages to understand that this was the case, that's why there has been responses in the previous pages thinking that the Russian article was accurate when it's not.The Three Storm Sharks, episode 8 released on january the 8th.
One mer to rule them all,
one mer to find them,
One mer to bring them all
and in the darkness bind them.0 -
Koensol✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Couldn't have said it better myself. Quality post. Especially the part where you describe how it would be without animation cancelling.Seraphayel wrote: »animation cancelling is obviously a feature in the game.
This is not WoW where we wait for abilities to finish casting or load
This is an Action combat system
80% of ability is WoW are prety much instant what the hell are you talking about lol the fluid and smoot combat is the best part of WoW basically the only reason im still playing it....
Animation canceling was a design bug that they were lazy to fix and just said OH its a feature now so no it never was "obivously a feature"
Animation canceling makes the combat and animations look *** and outdated the end.
No, animation cancelling was an intended mechanic to allow players to immediately and consistently react to incoming attacks by dodging/blocking/etc. If it didn't exist, you wouldn't be able to perform any action while in the animation of another action, and that's what it's there to fix.
What was unintended was players learning how it works, and exploiting it so effectively that they can significantly improve their damage output.
This is wrong. Animation canceling was always a bug in the game mechanic that ZOS was aware about and wanted to get rid of in 2014 / 2015. Their plan was always to fix this during ESOs early years.
They couldn’t fix it (like they couldn’t or can’t fix a lot of things still) and then it subsequently became a feature, even moreso after the sustain and LA/HA changes several years ago.
Exploiting a mechanic should never result in a new feature and everything that is exploitable should get fixed ASAP. I pray to the Daedric Princes that they are ardently working on finally getting rid of this mess.
I'm not just talking about weaving, I'm talking about animation cancelling as a whole. Weaving, block cancelling, bash cancelling, dodge cancelling, bar swap cancelling, everything cancelling.
Animation cancelling as a whole was 100% intended, because it's a requirement in having an active combat system be reliable and responsive for users.
See literally any game that has an active combat system, and note how they all have animation cancelling to some degree. Better yet, see Path of Exile having to retroactively implement it into an existing combat system to have melee be playable without having to stack attack speed.
Animation cancelling is necessary for responsiveness. Without it, they have to slow combat way down, so players have a chance to react to an attack without being stuck in an animation.
Again, what wasn't intended was players learning and exploiting it as they do, and that is probably what they tried to fix. Not animation cancelling, but how it interacts with skills and enables you to cut animations short while still retaining the functionality of the skill.
They cannot fix that without moving away from truly instant skills, and towards short cast time skills. See how the community has reacted to ults having cast times, if you want an insight as to even a modicum of the rage if Zenimax were to do this.
If you want an insight as to how the game would play without animation cancelling, go run any content that has telegraphed one-shot mechanics (ideally ones you have to block, dodge, or bash), and wait until your character returns to the idle pose before performing any action.
EDIT: As I said in another thread, something as complex yet predictable as animation cancelling doesn't just accidentally itself into existence. That's not how software bugs work. There's an underlying system behind animation cancelling, and that system is what was intended, which, by extension, makes animation cancelling intended.
This is why I just can't wrap my head around people saying it should be removed. I am absolutely a 100% sure these exact same people would come rioting on the forums when their tank character got 1 shot in a dungeon after they couldn't block the instant spike damage in time because they were in some pretty animation.
Or what about when they activate an ability and at the exact same time a red circle spawns under their feet that they want to dodge out of, but they cant because they are in an animation.
Oh, so you do want animations to be able to be cancelled, but you want the abilities to be cancelled as well in the process? Let me know how it goes for you when your endless hail got cut off for the 100th time during your rotation as it happened to be the last ability before you bar swap and you bar swap keeps cancelling it. I'm sure it will be real fun for you.
Thats the thing. This game is fast. There is a reason there are so few cast times in this game and why there are so many one shot mechanics in the game. It requires responsiveness in order to perform well. Every single one of you has been animation cancelling without even knowing you are doing it. You will be up for a rude awakening if you ever get your way with the game.7 -
nafensoriel✭✭✭✭✭Sandman929 wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that although this was a legitimate interview with Rich, some of the initial answers did not represent what was actually said. We reached out to the site to provide clarification, and they have since updated their article with responses that more accurately reflect what Rich had initially conveyed. To be clear, we are not currently planning to create a new combat system for ESO, and Spellcrafting isn’t currently on our future roadmap. As the most recent reply from the article states, our current priority is on game performance. Apologies for the confusion this caused.
Nonsense ended. Thanks for this.
HAH! the forums will have threads for the next two years and you know it!0 -
Coppes✭✭✭✭“Every single one of you has been animation cancelling without even knowing you are doing it. You will be up for a rude awakening if you ever get your way with the game.”
People know they’ve been animation cancelling in the game. To do any combat reliably in this game you have to animation cancel. Which is the oppositions main point: animation cancelling is annoying.
Edited by Coppes on January 24, 2020 7:22PM2 -
xXMeowMeowXx✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes. We plan to radically redesign the combat system.
So I interpreted this as, “Yes, load screens are an intended combat feature. We also, have exciting new crown crates we are working on and mount re-skins”
0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Do you think I am opposing changes to the original post? I am not. At the same time I don't feel the need to pressure "change it, change it, change it". I know that I wouldn't lose information in such a case, as the first thing I do in a thread that is of interest to me is reading developer comments when available. Usually even before reading the first post.Bluepitbull13 wrote: »@Olauron the OP is not responsible for adding all the changes for the publishing life of the article, but the OP should at the very least add an update to his original post stating that there was a mistranslation. Gina a ZOS representative already stated on page 4 that this was a mistranslation. People aren't always going to read 5 pages to understand that this was the case, that's why there has been responses in the previous pages thinking that the Russian article was accurate when it's not.
They are just pointing out it makes no sense to get in my case, or anyone else’s, for pointing out to people who were still caught up with the original post that it no longer reflected the article.
That energy would be better spent and make more sense to suggest the OP make a note of the change on the original post since they have made clear they are aware the article has been edited.0 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭LMAO @ these translations. This one cracked me up:
"For this, Cyrodiil was created - a large combat zone. For this, battlefields also serve. Where all thirsty for blood can meet the same enthusiasts and clean each other's faces." -Rich Lambert (from English to Russian and back again)3 -
jcm2606✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Spaceroamer wrote: »“Every single one of you has been animation cancelling without even knowing you are doing it. You will be up for a rude awakening if you ever get your way with the game.”
People know they’ve been animation cancelling in the game. To do any combat reliably in this game you have to animation cancel. Which is the oppositions main point: animation cancelling is annoying.
And yet essential to having combat be reliable and responsive. They're literally shooting themselves in the foot in asking for animation cancelling be removed, and they don't even realise it. Again, I can guarantee that the moment it gets removed, if it gets removed, most people who were begging for it to be removed will be begging for it to come back.3 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hi everyone, just wanted to let you know that although this was a legitimate interview with Rich, some of the initial answers did not represent what was actually said. We reached out to the site to provide clarification, and they have since updated their article with responses that more accurately reflect what Rich had initially conveyed. To be clear, we are not currently planning to create a new combat system for ESO, and Spellcrafting isn’t currently on our future roadmap. As the most recent reply from the article states, our current priority is on game performance. Apologies for the confusion this caused.
Thank the good lord that your focus is finally on performance. Better late than never. Regardless I have no faith that pvp players, especially console pvp players, will ever be able to play this game without the terrible performance issues that we have been begging you to fix for years, but I really hope you prove me wrong.
Anyway, you guys should really give a solid answer about why spellcrafting was taken off the road map for eso. Because according to either current or former employees, it was going to be a thing.. At least thats how I interpreted what was said and shown about it. I would love to see spellcrafting, but Id much rather see better performance. Either way, it was supposed to come and then we never got a reason why it was scrapped, at least not that ive found. It would be nice to know.1 -
Cireous✭✭✭✭✭
✭No... Spellcrafting?
...Again?
Don't speak, I know just what you're sayin'
So please stop explainin'
Don't tell me 'cause it hurts
-Rumored lyrics by Jano Invel, Spellcraft Instructor1 -
Cronopoly✭✭✭✭✭Combat redesign is walking the razers edge. Sony did it once and basically killed off their game SWG mmo. Good ole NGE combat redesign.
The dev's here are much smarter so I don't see them committing the worst Nerf in MMO history. Creature Handler was deleted from the game
after many put thousands of hours into it.
Though I still marvel at my early MMo days and how mad i got when in DAoC's "LA" (Left Axe) weapon type (similar to Dual Weild) was nerfed into the ground. 0
This discussion has been closed.