MerguezMan wrote: »What does it matter if other people get story mode? Why are you arguing against it? How does it effect you if other people run something solo?
It is a first step in the wrong direction for development effort.
Let's say the next quarter will be about rebalancing the game to make all dungeons and trials soloable.
Then people will ask for loot in those versions (yeah, why not ?).
Then people will ask for veteran version of those (Hey, vMA exists).
Then...
But in the meantime, this also means you have to rebalance multiplayer pve, and pvp side of things.
And all those efforts can't go into server optimization for multiplayer, because you just multiplied the number of solo instances supported by server...
We know development effort is something we can only have in limited quantities.
Do you really think pushing it towards solo content, instead of multiplayer content, is a good idea ?
Considering TES 6 will arrive sooner or later, and bring away those solo players, leaving only those here for multiplayer ?
frozzzen101 wrote: »I personally would like to know who the "They" is they referred to in the clip that was asking for more story integration.
I've never seen a single post on these forums about wanting more story integration for group dungeons. Every post I've seen on the subject has been to the contrary.
Here, have one then.
Did you ever stop to consider that there are people who are enjoying DLC dungeon stories and in a big way because of difficulty attached to them? That there are people that enjoyed story of March of Sacrifices because it was genuinely hard first time and it actually felt like something Hircine might drag you trough? That there are people who enjoyed something like Fang Lair because last boss was so tough when it first came out that there was actual threat associated with it? Unlike Manimarco - the greatest necromancer ever etc etc etc. Can't take that *** seriously.
You know, I'm tired of posts like yours demanding that what little of enjoyable game content comes out be lowered to roleplayer level. Honestly, I can't fully enjoy overland content because it's so easy that most of the bosses die before they even get their dialogue out and die before I finish full rotation. I can't get immersed in story if I know that my base hp regen will outheal anything mobs can throw at me, so only place where I can experience decent story is in difficult content. I know all stock responses, and you know what? I couldn't care less about any of them. You also probably know all the stock responses I might tell you. Are you with a straight face telling me that you cannot organize a group for story run for two normal dungeons to get the full story in 3 months before chapter comes out? Seriously?
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »So your argument that you are incapable of enjoying the story in 4 man dungeons even when you are in a group specifically formed with like minded players interested in the story seems to be a personal issue., Stories in group dungeons is a common element of MMORPG design and you are literally saying you cannot get immersed in the game when grouped with others in a very absolute statement. It is the very essence of D&D with is pretty much the parent of all of these games.
D&D is different (as a board game). People have to focus on the game and the story in order to imagine it together. People in a D&D game don't talk about their mother-in-law.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »So your argument that you are incapable of enjoying the story in 4 man dungeons even when you are in a group specifically formed with like minded players interested in the story seems to be a personal issue., Stories in group dungeons is a common element of MMORPG design and you are literally saying you cannot get immersed in the game when grouped with others in a very absolute statement. It is the very essence of D&D with is pretty much the parent of all of these games.
The combined efforts of some people here to tell me (and a few others) that we shouldn't be here at all are amazing. You're telling what we should and should not enjoy, should and should not like, should and should not require, just because the game is stamped "MMO" .. which it actually isn't, Firor having himself described it a "online RPG" rather than "MMORPG".
You're still in full denial that half of this game's population comes from single-player TES games and wouldn't even have touched ESO if not for Skyrim and its predecessors.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »So your argument that you are incapable of enjoying the story in 4 man dungeons even when you are in a group specifically formed with like minded players interested in the story seems to be a personal issue., Stories in group dungeons is a common element of MMORPG design and you are literally saying you cannot get immersed in the game when grouped with others in a very absolute statement. It is the very essence of D&D with is pretty much the parent of all of these games.
Back to dungeon stories : up to Elsweyr and the "year of the dragons", all dungeons had a stand-alone story. I didn't get any of them, not a single one, in spite of having run these dungeons a million times. It doesn't matter since they are stand-alone. stories. But if they're linked to the general overland story, then it's different. We're gonna miss a piece of the story at some stage.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »But what the hell am I talking to you about ? All you care for is that ESO fits the "MMORPG" cookie cutter model and anyone wishing for something to be different has a "personal issue". Even if that little something takes nothing away from you at all.So your argument that you are incapable of enjoying the story in 4 man dungeons even when you are in a group specifically formed with like minded players interested in the story seems to be a personal issue., Stories in group dungeons is a common element of MMORPG design and you are literally saying you cannot get immersed in the game when grouped with others in a very absolute statement. It is the very essence of D&D with is pretty much the parent of all of these games.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »So your argument that you are incapable of enjoying the story in 4 man dungeons even when you are in a group specifically formed with like minded players interested in the story seems to be a personal issue., Stories in group dungeons is a common element of MMORPG design and you are literally saying you cannot get immersed in the game when grouped with others in a very absolute statement. It is the very essence of D&D with is pretty much the parent of all of these games.
D&D is different (as a board game). People have to focus on the game and the story in order to imagine it together. People in a D&D game don't talk about their mother-in-law.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Back to dungeon stories : up to Elsweyr and the "year of the dragons", all dungeons had a stand-alone story. I didn't get any of them, not a single one, in spite of having run these dungeons a million times. It doesn't matter since they are stand-alone. stories. But if they're linked to the general overland story, then it's different. We're gonna miss a piece of the story at some stage.
They put effort into developing an antiquities system no one ever asked for.
Do you think ZOS is clueless here? You are writing like they have no idea. They know people are not going to run the dungeon. They know people are not going to buy the DLC. They know that the people who run the dungeon might miss out on parts of the story because they got busy doing the dungeon. I am expecting that they are going to make it so you are not missing the story. The only thing you might miss is being there when it happens.
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »
entire snip
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »entire snip
That's simply called a different feeling for immersion.
I understand that the word "different" is somehow foreign to you.
Now I'd be very grateful if you'd stop replying to me, because our back & forth is of no interest to anyone and will attract the moderation at some stage. I seldomly block people but I'll end up having to do that with you.
TokenIntellect wrote: »
- First off OP is a day late and a dollar short. Even the clip OP presented says Zos did this last year as well.
Nope, I fussed about this last year as well and the clip roughly says "last year they liked it and They wanted the story to be even more integrated and we did that and each of the DLCs that we do are all very tied, directly to the story line"
And it seems to have worked very well with very little criticism about it during the year.
I do like how you edited out the rest as it was probably inconvenient to address those two points. No problem
Really, IDK?
As I recall, when they announced the intention to hide story behind dungeon content with the "Year of the Dragon" there were a number of threads asking for ZOS to either change their minds about that and/or add a story mode.
The reason why the OP isn't "a day late and a dollar short" is precisely because the complaint is still relevant. It is exactly the type of substantive critique that ZOS actually asks for: point out what's wrong and offer a potential solution. Just because you like it the way it is doesn't mean other people do or that ZOS is correct in how they're reading the situation.
The truth? A story mode makes more of the content accessible to more people. More people playing more of the time means more money. Even if it only adds a few minutes per week per person that adds up. If ZOS wants people to play as they like, they should actually let people play the way they (the people and not the devs) like.
And those threads died fast.
Contaminate wrote: »The thread should be locked anyway
It’s the same old baseless complaints as usual. Same as saying “I want arena weapons from normal mode”, “give me PvE Imperial City”, and “let me buy combat upgrades”
Contaminate wrote: »The thread should be locked anyway
It’s the same old baseless complaints as usual. Same as saying “I want arena weapons from normal mode”, “give me PvE Imperial City”, and “let me buy combat upgrades”
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
Contaminate wrote: »The thread should be locked anyway
It’s the same old baseless complaints as usual. Same as saying “I want arena weapons from normal mode”, “give me PvE Imperial City”, and “let me buy combat upgrades”
anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »So your argument that you are incapable of enjoying the story in 4 man dungeons even when you are in a group specifically formed with like minded players interested in the story seems to be a personal issue., Stories in group dungeons is a common element of MMORPG design and you are literally saying you cannot get immersed in the game when grouped with others in a very absolute statement. It is the very essence of D&D with is pretty much the parent of all of these games.
D&D is different (as a board game). People have to focus on the game and the story in order to imagine it together. People in a D&D game don't talk about their mother-in-law.
🤔anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Back to dungeon stories : up to Elsweyr and the "year of the dragons", all dungeons had a stand-alone story. I didn't get any of them, not a single one, in spite of having run these dungeons a million times. It doesn't matter since they are stand-alone. stories. But if they're linked to the general overland story, then it's different. We're gonna miss a piece of the story at some stage.
Do you think ZOS is clueless here? You are writing like they have no idea. They know people are not going to run the dungeon. They know people are not going to buy the DLC. They know that the people who run the dungeon might miss out on parts of the story because they got busy doing the dungeon. I am expecting that they are going to make it so you are not missing the story. The only thing you might miss is being there when it happens.They put effort into developing an antiquities system no one ever asked for.
People keep saying that like it is some sort of universal truth.I suppose it is like saying "no one orders Big Macs at McDonalds". Hmm. More of a conversation starter, than an actual fact. I get it. Nevermind. Back to your story.
You’re right. “No one” is a misstatement. I should have said, “you can count on 1 hand the number of people who wanted Antiquities”. After doing a search on these forums all the way back to September 2014 I found this specifically suggested uniquely by: Shadowsscout, Grumlins, Florial, and themadhatter91.
TokenIntellect wrote: »
- First off OP is a day late and a dollar short. Even the clip OP presented says Zos did this last year as well.
Nope, I fussed about this last year as well and the clip roughly says "last year they liked it and They wanted the story to be even more integrated and we did that and each of the DLCs that we do are all very tied, directly to the story line"
And it seems to have worked very well with very little criticism about it during the year.
I do like how you edited out the rest as it was probably inconvenient to address those two points. No problem
Really, IDK?
As I recall, when they announced the intention to hide story behind dungeon content with the "Year of the Dragon" there were a number of threads asking for ZOS to either change their minds about that and/or add a story mode.
The reason why the OP isn't "a day late and a dollar short" is precisely because the complaint is still relevant. It is exactly the type of substantive critique that ZOS actually asks for: point out what's wrong and offer a potential solution. Just because you like it the way it is doesn't mean other people do or that ZOS is correct in how they're reading the situation.
The truth? A story mode makes more of the content accessible to more people. More people playing more of the time means more money. Even if it only adds a few minutes per week per person that adds up. If ZOS wants people to play as they like, they should actually let people play the way they (the people and not the devs) like.
And those threads died fast.
You mean like this one?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453375/solo-dungeon-mode-please
TokenIntellect wrote: »
- First off OP is a day late and a dollar short. Even the clip OP presented says Zos did this last year as well.
Nope, I fussed about this last year as well and the clip roughly says "last year they liked it and They wanted the story to be even more integrated and we did that and each of the DLCs that we do are all very tied, directly to the story line"
And it seems to have worked very well with very little criticism about it during the year.
I do like how you edited out the rest as it was probably inconvenient to address those two points. No problem
Really, IDK?
As I recall, when they announced the intention to hide story behind dungeon content with the "Year of the Dragon" there were a number of threads asking for ZOS to either change their minds about that and/or add a story mode.
The reason why the OP isn't "a day late and a dollar short" is precisely because the complaint is still relevant. It is exactly the type of substantive critique that ZOS actually asks for: point out what's wrong and offer a potential solution. Just because you like it the way it is doesn't mean other people do or that ZOS is correct in how they're reading the situation.
The truth? A story mode makes more of the content accessible to more people. More people playing more of the time means more money. Even if it only adds a few minutes per week per person that adds up. If ZOS wants people to play as they like, they should actually let people play the way they (the people and not the devs) like.
And those threads died fast.
You mean like this one?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453375/solo-dungeon-mode-please
As the title indicates the focus of that is a solo story mode version to which I really do not object to.
However, if you had bothered to read the OP of this thread they stating that they "do not understand why development time is wasted on placing meaningful story content inside of a group dungeon." The OP also falsely implies that those of us that like dungeons would probabaly prefer Zos make a third dungeon and suggests we do not care about the story. Clearly speaking about something they know nothing about. The OP does not mention a request for a solo version of the dungeon in the OP.
A poster named code provided what is probably the best worded retort. To paraphrase the first part as best as I can, every dungeon has a story and that it is probably a better use of resources to continue with the story that is already being laid out vs creating a brand new one. I linked their comment in case you would like to read the rest of their well though response.
Blaqk_EyeD wrote: »There are several guilds that do group dungeons and take the time to explore the lore inside. Pugs are hit and miss to begin with. More bland, story lacking, quick run through dungeons are not the answer.
Yes I know, I belong to what I consider to be one of the better ones that has been here since launch but due to my play schedule I'm rarely on at a convenient time to join them.
I would be happy if they would just make a difficulty level (or set the level on normal) to one that compares with nMA or Starter level dungeons without the group checks. It would still be challenging for most solo players and still hard enough for newb group players. I also wouldn't scoff at a Story mode without the rewards as it still wouldn't affect the content for those who currently do it.
NupidStoob wrote: »Let's play a multiplayer game and complain it's not solo. To anyone who thinks like that: sounds like a you problem.
However, if you had bothered to read the OP of this thread they stating that they "do not understand why development time is wasted on placing meaningful story content inside of a group dungeon."
The OP also falsely implies that those of us that like dungeons would probabaly prefer Zos make a third dungeon and suggests we do not care about the story. Clearly speaking about something they know nothing about.
The OP does not mention a request for a solo version of the dungeon in the OP.
TokenIntellect wrote: »
- First off OP is a day late and a dollar short. Even the clip OP presented says Zos did this last year as well.
Nope, I fussed about this last year as well and the clip roughly says "last year they liked it and They wanted the story to be even more integrated and we did that and each of the DLCs that we do are all very tied, directly to the story line"
And it seems to have worked very well with very little criticism about it during the year.
I do like how you edited out the rest as it was probably inconvenient to address those two points. No problem
Really, IDK?
As I recall, when they announced the intention to hide story behind dungeon content with the "Year of the Dragon" there were a number of threads asking for ZOS to either change their minds about that and/or add a story mode.
The reason why the OP isn't "a day late and a dollar short" is precisely because the complaint is still relevant. It is exactly the type of substantive critique that ZOS actually asks for: point out what's wrong and offer a potential solution. Just because you like it the way it is doesn't mean other people do or that ZOS is correct in how they're reading the situation.
The truth? A story mode makes more of the content accessible to more people. More people playing more of the time means more money. Even if it only adds a few minutes per week per person that adds up. If ZOS wants people to play as they like, they should actually let people play the way they (the people and not the devs) like.
And those threads died fast.
You mean like this one?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/453375/solo-dungeon-mode-please
As the title indicates the focus of that is a solo story mode version to which I really do not object to.
However, if you had bothered to read the OP of this thread they stating that they "do not understand why development time is wasted on placing meaningful story content inside of a group dungeon." The OP also falsely implies that those of us that like dungeons would probabaly prefer Zos make a third dungeon and suggests we do not care about the story. Clearly speaking about something they know nothing about. The OP does not mention a request for a solo version of the dungeon in the OP.
A poster named code provided what is probably the best worded retort. To paraphrase the first part as best as I can, every dungeon has a story and that it is probably a better use of resources to continue with the story that is already being laid out vs creating a brand new one. I linked their comment in case you would like to read the rest of their well though response.
I "bothered to" read it all the first time I went through the thread, thank you very much. Your statement about threads dying fast was a reply not to the OP but to this: "As I recall, when they announced the intention to hide story behind dungeon content with the "Year of the Dragon" there were a number of threads asking for ZOS to either change their minds about that and/or add a story mode." And the video in the OP is clearly about that very intention: hiding parts of the main story for the whole year inside of dlc dungeons, where many players won't give a flying F and many other players will never come to experience it.
First I tried to keep this clip under Fair Use rules but I needed to be able to point out what I'm talking about for those who don't watch the 2 hour stream recording.
I do not understand why development time is wasted on placing meaningful story content inside of a group dungeon. I'm sure those who like group dungeons would rather those resources be spent on a 3rd dungeon rather than something they don't care about. I also think folks who are here for the main story don't like dealing with others while trying to experience it.
Below is a clip that is the crux of my problem with the direction of this franchise.https://youtu.be/GFKc18GBMfA
at least stories in trials are self contained. I still wish I could take more time to explore and to listen, but finding a trials group that is willing to hang around while you talk to every npc (and they actualy have quite a bit to say in trials as well) - can be even harder then finding 3 other people to do this in a dungeon.
before we had self contained stories though. now... they are part of the larger narrative and THAT.. is something that IMO requires some changes.
You’re right. “No one” is a misstatement. I should have said, “you can count on 1 hand the number of people who wanted Antiquities”. After doing a search on these forums all the way back to September 2014 I found this specifically suggested uniquely by: Shadowsscout, Grumlins, Florial, and themadhatter91.
What might interest you is that I know people who have suggested it, and none of them are in that list.
The ONLY downside to locking lore in dungeons is the up tick in pants on head DPS who struggle to break 10k entering the queue. Thankfully remove from party is an option.
at least stories in trials are self contained. I still wish I could take more time to explore and to listen, but finding a trials group that is willing to hang around while you talk to every npc (and they actualy have quite a bit to say in trials as well) - can be even harder then finding 3 other people to do this in a dungeon.
before we had self contained stories though. now... they are part of the larger narrative and THAT.. is something that IMO requires some changes.
I'm going to disagree that trials are self-contained. The Craglorn trials relate directly to the Craglorn quest line. They are the consequence of the Celestials being driven mad by the Serpent.
Honestly, the whole "the dungeons are part of the story" is really just PR talk.
They are not more connected to the story than the Imperial City Dungeons are tied to Imperial City, or than Banished Cells I and II are tied to the story of Auridon (which they are, but there was no PR hype on that so people don't realize it)
100% agree. It's not that I wish they'd take stories out of dungeons entirely (though I wouldn't be opposed), just don't connect them so heavily to the overland stories we get in Chapter updates. If I have to buy an overpriced DLC containing a whopping two dungeons that I'll do once, then an overpriced Chapter for the new zone I'll explore once, then another overpriced DLC for two more one-trip dungeons, and then another overpriced DLC for a worse version of the chapter. . . . I'm just gonna skip all of it and play another game that doesn't require a year and $100 to finish. Absolute joke of a company right now, but when Pete Hines is supporting the marketing department, we know what to expect.frozzzen101 wrote: »I never demanded anything, I stated what I didn't like about the direction of the game and offered suggestions based on opinions I've seen for a compromise. I've never suggested that anything that exists be taken out or changed. I have suggested other options be added.
Sure I'm all up for options, but it just won't happen. It would require a lot of resources to do this properly. Solo story mode for dungeons and trials? Unlikely. Veteran overland? Unlikely. So we are in same boat really. We cannot experience content in the fashion we'd like to.
As for your "yes", quite frankly you aren't even trying. I can call in people and make group to do quest run of dungeon any weekend and if people are online and up for it, even weekdays. That you cannot do 40 minutes of content in 100 days is plain bs and if you won't spare 1% of effort to get it done then you deserve to miss on a story. It's not that you can't do it, it's that you don't want to do it.
See above regarding "resources." Not scamming your playerbase might seem resource-intensive, but it's really just brain power.
Regarding grouping - congrats. I'm glad you've made enough friends so far to have no trouble finding premades. That said, some of us have to spend hours just getting s**t-tier DPS to farm gear with, never mind an actual enjoyable group to do story content. Disregard the fact that the game and its community actively discourage grouping outside of trials, it's still absurd how many hoops you have to jump through to actually enjoy any of the content in this game.