The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Update Racial Passives Please
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Grianasteri✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, server performance should be priority but these racial passives should be updated.
Elemental Talent
Rank III - Unlocked at Altmer (High Elf) 50
Increases your Spell Damage by 258
This should also increase Weapon Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Orsimer (Orc) 50
Increases your weapon damage by 258
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 12% and increases the Movement Speed bonus of Sprint by 10%
This should also increase Spell Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Breton 50
Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%
This should reduce the cost of both magicka and stamina abilities by 7%
There are orc shamans in game and a orc holding a staff in ESO related artwork. There is a high elf getting knocked off a cliff using a sword in the Summerset cinematic and High Kinlord Rilis uses a two-handed sword. The Breton assassin in the cinematic who rerolled necromancer never seems to have sustain problems with stamina or magicka. Fits the lore and will make these races more viable in other departments and isn't game breaking. The rest of the races are fine.
Thanks for reading! Feel free to comment.
No, I totally disagree. Races need to have specific reasons to use them, specific traits that the race excels in, specific identities. We do not need every race to be the same or what is the point in the race at all.
You may well get your wish though, since ZOS seem intent in making every class and race able to do every role.
Class and race identity must be maintained.
.Edited by Grianasteri on December 12, 2019 9:42AM5 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Many players favour a certain race in previous elder scrolls games racial passives didn’t matter as much. I’m playing a Breton stamblade and still do very well pvp and pve but I see my Breton as an assassin so I feel like I should have passives that fit my character. Races do matter one of the things I love most about elder scrolls is the lore on the races but we are more then just a normal man, mer, man/mer, beast so why can’t my Breton train along side bosmer and learn there way of fighting.Grianasteri wrote: »Yes, server performance should be priority but these racial passives should be updated.
Elemental Talent
Rank III - Unlocked at Altmer (High Elf) 50
Increases your Spell Damage by 258
This should also increase Weapon Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Orsimer (Orc) 50
Increases your weapon damage by 258
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 12% and increases the Movement Speed bonus of Sprint by 10%
This should also increase Spell Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Breton 50
Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%
This should reduce the cost of both magicka and stamina abilities by 7%
There are orc shamans in game and a orc holding a staff in ESO related artwork. There is a high elf getting knocked off a cliff using a sword in the Summerset cinematic and High Kinlord Rilis uses a two-handed sword. The Breton assassin in the cinematic who rerolled necromancer never seems to have sustain problems with stamina or magicka. Fits the lore and will make these races more viable in other departments and isn't game breaking. The rest of the races are fine.
Thanks for reading! Feel free to comment.
No, I totally disagree. Races need to have specific reasons to use them, specific traits that the race excels in, specific identities. We do not need every race to be the same or what is the point in the race at all.
You may well get your wish though, since ZOS seem intent in making every class and race able to do every role.
Class and race identity must be maintained.
.
2 -
vilio11✭✭✭ideally breton and altmer should have one stam build and 5 or more magicka builds. Orc should have 1 mag build and 5 or more stamina build.2 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
100% Frost resistance, 75% fire resistance, 100% poison resistance don't exactly sound like "didn't matter as much". Especially in Morrowind where lack of proficiency in certain weapons or schools could lock you out of that playstyle or make it significantly harder for you simply because your attacks would keep missing. Races did matter in previous Elder Scrolls games - just not in Skyrim.Deathlord92 wrote: »
Many players favour a certain race in previous elder scrolls games racial passives didn’t matter as much. I’m playing a Breton stamblade and still do very well pvp and pve but I see my Breton as an assassin so I feel like I should have passives that fit my character. Races do matter one of the things I love most about elder scrolls is the lore on the races but we are more then just a normal man, mer, man/mer, beast so why can’t my Breton train along side bosmer and learn there way of fighting.Grianasteri wrote: »Yes, server performance should be priority but these racial passives should be updated.
Elemental Talent
Rank III - Unlocked at Altmer (High Elf) 50
Increases your Spell Damage by 258
This should also increase Weapon Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Orsimer (Orc) 50
Increases your weapon damage by 258
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 12% and increases the Movement Speed bonus of Sprint by 10%
This should also increase Spell Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Breton 50
Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%
This should reduce the cost of both magicka and stamina abilities by 7%
There are orc shamans in game and a orc holding a staff in ESO related artwork. There is a high elf getting knocked off a cliff using a sword in the Summerset cinematic and High Kinlord Rilis uses a two-handed sword. The Breton assassin in the cinematic who rerolled necromancer never seems to have sustain problems with stamina or magicka. Fits the lore and will make these races more viable in other departments and isn't game breaking. The rest of the races are fine.
Thanks for reading! Feel free to comment.
No, I totally disagree. Races need to have specific reasons to use them, specific traits that the race excels in, specific identities. We do not need every race to be the same or what is the point in the race at all.
You may well get your wish though, since ZOS seem intent in making every class and race able to do every role.
Class and race identity must be maintained.
.
Why can't you have the same boni as other races? Because supposedly these racial passives are grounded in their physiology. That is exactly why I dislike the explanation given by ZOS for the Spell recharge passive. If it's just Alteration magic, then EVERY race would be able to do that. Or at least every race specifically attuned to magic, like Bretons.
But try as they might, an Altmer will never be as resistant to cold as a Nord or build muscles as fast.
Racial passives are meant to tell you something about the differences between the races that you can actually feel ingame.
So why can't your Breton be as good of an Assassin as Khajiit or Bosmer? Because the halfbreed Manmer don't possess the same stamina to play hide and seek for as long as people with the same lifestyle from a race, which collectively and ritually practised hiding for millenia. However, your Breton will in turn be able to use illusion magic to stay invisible for about 7% longer than these races.
Don't chase the meta, folks and don't demand the lore to change to your needs.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭[...] Argonian is one of the best races in the game. It is just slept on. Potion passive is amazing...
The potion passive isn't as great as you think it is. Unless you are talking about the ability to "reset" fights in PvP, it is outperformed on every front by Imperials and on stamina/magicka by Bosmer, Redguard and Breton respectively. And I'm talking about constant use here, even if you go for full potion cooldown reduction.
Khajiit is the only race with a sustain bonus that's behind Argonians, but the Khajiit's crit damage modifier is way stronger than the healing done bonus Argonians get, so that more than evens out. Argonians need a buff, but not on the potion passive because of said resetability potential.
Edit: Source:
No it’s not. Argonian healing passive is better for healing unless you have 60%+ crit.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[...] Argonian is one of the best races in the game. It is just slept on. Potion passive is amazing...
The potion passive isn't as great as you think it is. Unless you are talking about the ability to "reset" fights in PvP, it is outperformed on every front by Imperials and on stamina/magicka by Bosmer, Redguard and Breton respectively. And I'm talking about constant use here, even if you go for full potion cooldown reduction.
Khajiit is the only race with a sustain bonus that's behind Argonians, but the Khajiit's crit damage modifier is way stronger than the healing done bonus Argonians get, so that more than evens out. Argonians need a buff, but not on the potion passive because of said resetability potential.
Edit: Source:
No it’s not. Argonian healing passive is better for healing unless you have 60%+ crit.
@Iskiab If you read again what I wrote, I was talking about damage not healing. My point is not that Khajiit is better for the healing role but that Khajiit has more to offer as a whole than Argonians. Khajiit are better for DPS than Argonians are for healing if that makes sense. Argonians are underpowered. Healing done is not a very good stat.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭[...] Argonian is one of the best races in the game. It is just slept on. Potion passive is amazing...
The potion passive isn't as great as you think it is. Unless you are talking about the ability to "reset" fights in PvP, it is outperformed on every front by Imperials and on stamina/magicka by Bosmer, Redguard and Breton respectively. And I'm talking about constant use here, even if you go for full potion cooldown reduction.
Khajiit is the only race with a sustain bonus that's behind Argonians, but the Khajiit's crit damage modifier is way stronger than the healing done bonus Argonians get, so that more than evens out. Argonians need a buff, but not on the potion passive because of said resetability potential.
Edit: Source:
No it’s not. Argonian healing passive is better for healing unless you have 60%+ crit.
@Iskiab If you read again what I wrote, I was talking about damage not healing. My point is not that Khajiit is better for the healing role but that Khajiit has more to offer as a whole than Argonians. Khajiit are better for DPS than Argonians are for healing if that makes sense. Argonians are underpowered. Healing done is not a very good stat.
What? Healing done is the best healing stat.
Argonians are only underpowered, if they are, for a pve perspective. They’re fine in pvp.
Khajit has the opposite problem, they’re okay in pve where people stack crit but undertuned in pvp.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten1 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[...] Argonian is one of the best races in the game. It is just slept on. Potion passive is amazing...
The potion passive isn't as great as you think it is. Unless you are talking about the ability to "reset" fights in PvP, it is outperformed on every front by Imperials and on stamina/magicka by Bosmer, Redguard and Breton respectively. And I'm talking about constant use here, even if you go for full potion cooldown reduction.
Khajiit is the only race with a sustain bonus that's behind Argonians, but the Khajiit's crit damage modifier is way stronger than the healing done bonus Argonians get, so that more than evens out. Argonians need a buff, but not on the potion passive because of said resetability potential.
Edit: Source:
No it’s not. Argonian healing passive is better for healing unless you have 60%+ crit.
@Iskiab If you read again what I wrote, I was talking about damage not healing. My point is not that Khajiit is better for the healing role but that Khajiit has more to offer as a whole than Argonians. Khajiit are better for DPS than Argonians are for healing if that makes sense. Argonians are underpowered. Healing done is not a very good stat.
What? Healing done is the best healing stat.
Argonians are only underpowered, if they are, for a pve perspective. They’re fine in pvp.
Khajit has the opposite problem, they’re okay in pve where people stack crit but undertuned in pvp.
@Iskiab I don't think you know what you are talking about. Spell damage also increases healing done (on magicka abilities, weapon damage on stamina).
2% healing done equals 129 spell damage at around 5000 spell damage on a character with 34900 max magicka.
Argonians have 6% healing done, Altmer gain 258 spell damage, so at 3333 spell damage Argonians benefit as much from their passive as Altmer in terms of only healing done. I don't know about you, but my healer operates with a max of 2000 spell damage when fully buffed - 2400 if I changed to Altmer. You usually benefit more from spell damage than from healing done, especially since spell damage improves your damage too.
Source for the math:
ZOS even recognized this when they doubled the amount of %healing done on every item set from 2% to 4%. However they forgot to look at Argonians when they changed that. In Wrathstone they calculated a budget for racial passives of 6.5 set boni. So in terms of power, what used to be counted as 3 item set boni is now just 1.5 item set boni by ZOS' own admission.
No matter how you twist and turn it. Argonians are underpowered in PvE as well as PvP. And that's not even taking overheal into account! The potion passive is good the way it is now and should definitely not be buffed, but the rest of what the Argonians have to offer is lacking compared to all the other races.
You are right about Khajiit not being as good in PvP though. Personally I don't like that ZOS shoehorns races into one or the other category. For example Bosmer have a passive that's completely useless in PvE.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.4 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭[...] Argonian is one of the best races in the game. It is just slept on. Potion passive is amazing...
The potion passive isn't as great as you think it is. Unless you are talking about the ability to "reset" fights in PvP, it is outperformed on every front by Imperials and on stamina/magicka by Bosmer, Redguard and Breton respectively. And I'm talking about constant use here, even if you go for full potion cooldown reduction.
Khajiit is the only race with a sustain bonus that's behind Argonians, but the Khajiit's crit damage modifier is way stronger than the healing done bonus Argonians get, so that more than evens out. Argonians need a buff, but not on the potion passive because of said resetability potential.
Edit: Source:
No it’s not. Argonian healing passive is better for healing unless you have 60%+ crit.
@Iskiab If you read again what I wrote, I was talking about damage not healing. My point is not that Khajiit is better for the healing role but that Khajiit has more to offer as a whole than Argonians. Khajiit are better for DPS than Argonians are for healing if that makes sense. Argonians are underpowered. Healing done is not a very good stat.
What? Healing done is the best healing stat.
Argonians are only underpowered, if they are, for a pve perspective. They’re fine in pvp.
Khajit has the opposite problem, they’re okay in pve where people stack crit but undertuned in pvp.
@Iskiab I don't think you know what you are talking about. Spell damage also increases healing done (on magicka abilities, weapon damage on stamina).
2% healing done equals 129 spell damage at around 5000 spell damage on a character with 34900 max magicka.
Argonians have 6% healing done, Altmer gain 258 spell damage, so at 3333 spell damage Argonians benefit as much from their passive as Altmer in terms of only healing done. I don't know about you, but my healer operates with a max of 2000 spell damage when fully buffed - 2400 if I changed to Altmer. You usually benefit more from spell damage than from healing done, especially since spell damage improves your damage too.
Source for the math:
ZOS even recognized this when they doubled the amount of %healing done on every item set from 2% to 4%. However they forgot to look at Argonians when they changed that. In Wrathstone they calculated a budget for racial passives of 6.5 set boni. So in terms of power, what used to be counted as 3 item set boni is now just 1.5 item set boni by ZOS' own admission.
No matter how you twist and turn it. Argonians are underpowered in PvE as well as PvP. And that's not even taking overheal into account! The potion passive is good the way it is now and should definitely not be buffed, but the rest of what the Argonians have to offer is lacking compared to all the other races.
You are right about Khajiit not being as good in PvP though. Personally I don't like that ZOS shoehorns races into one or the other category. For example Bosmer have a passive that's completely useless in PvE.
You’re forgetting that not all heals scale with spell damage at all. Everything except some shields scale with healing done.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭[...] Argonian is one of the best races in the game. It is just slept on. Potion passive is amazing...
The potion passive isn't as great as you think it is. Unless you are talking about the ability to "reset" fights in PvP, it is outperformed on every front by Imperials and on stamina/magicka by Bosmer, Redguard and Breton respectively. And I'm talking about constant use here, even if you go for full potion cooldown reduction.
Khajiit is the only race with a sustain bonus that's behind Argonians, but the Khajiit's crit damage modifier is way stronger than the healing done bonus Argonians get, so that more than evens out. Argonians need a buff, but not on the potion passive because of said resetability potential.
Edit: Source:
No it’s not. Argonian healing passive is better for healing unless you have 60%+ crit.
@Iskiab If you read again what I wrote, I was talking about damage not healing. My point is not that Khajiit is better for the healing role but that Khajiit has more to offer as a whole than Argonians. Khajiit are better for DPS than Argonians are for healing if that makes sense. Argonians are underpowered. Healing done is not a very good stat.
What? Healing done is the best healing stat.
Argonians are only underpowered, if they are, for a pve perspective. They’re fine in pvp.
Khajit has the opposite problem, they’re okay in pve where people stack crit but undertuned in pvp.
@Iskiab I don't think you know what you are talking about. Spell damage also increases healing done (on magicka abilities, weapon damage on stamina).
2% healing done equals 129 spell damage at around 5000 spell damage on a character with 34900 max magicka.
Argonians have 6% healing done, Altmer gain 258 spell damage, so at 3333 spell damage Argonians benefit as much from their passive as Altmer in terms of only healing done. I don't know about you, but my healer operates with a max of 2000 spell damage when fully buffed - 2400 if I changed to Altmer. You usually benefit more from spell damage than from healing done, especially since spell damage improves your damage too.
Source for the math:
ZOS even recognized this when they doubled the amount of %healing done on every item set from 2% to 4%. However they forgot to look at Argonians when they changed that. In Wrathstone they calculated a budget for racial passives of 6.5 set boni. So in terms of power, what used to be counted as 3 item set boni is now just 1.5 item set boni by ZOS' own admission.
No matter how you twist and turn it. Argonians are underpowered in PvE as well as PvP. And that's not even taking overheal into account! The potion passive is good the way it is now and should definitely not be buffed, but the rest of what the Argonians have to offer is lacking compared to all the other races.
You are right about Khajiit not being as good in PvP though. Personally I don't like that ZOS shoehorns races into one or the other category. For example Bosmer have a passive that's completely useless in PvE.
You’re forgetting that not all heals scale with spell damage at all. Everything except some shields scale with healing done.
Like? I can't think of any that don't scale with either weapon or spell damage nowadays. The only one I know of is Green Dragon Blood and that's a self-only skill for tank. Weren't we talking about healers?
Because if we are talking about tanks, then Argonians can't offer the same group support that Nords and Imperials can and Imperials passively have even better sustain than Argonians spamming potions, while Nords got the better resistances as physical resistance also reduces disease damage.
It does not matter which department we are talking about, there is always a better option than Argonians. They need a buff.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.2 -
OG_Kaveman✭✭✭✭✭[...] Argonian is one of the best races in the game. It is just slept on. Potion passive is amazing...
The potion passive isn't as great as you think it is. Unless you are talking about the ability to "reset" fights in PvP, it is outperformed on every front by Imperials and on stamina/magicka by Bosmer, Redguard and Breton respectively. And I'm talking about constant use here, even if you go for full potion cooldown reduction.
Khajiit is the only race with a sustain bonus that's behind Argonians, but the Khajiit's crit damage modifier is way stronger than the healing done bonus Argonians get, so that more than evens out. Argonians need a buff, but not on the potion passive because of said resetability potential.
Edit: Source:
No it’s not. Argonian healing passive is better for healing unless you have 60%+ crit.
@Iskiab If you read again what I wrote, I was talking about damage not healing. My point is not that Khajiit is better for the healing role but that Khajiit has more to offer as a whole than Argonians. Khajiit are better for DPS than Argonians are for healing if that makes sense. Argonians are underpowered. Healing done is not a very good stat.
What? Healing done is the best healing stat.
Argonians are only underpowered, if they are, for a pve perspective. They’re fine in pvp.
Khajit has the opposite problem, they’re okay in pve where people stack crit but undertuned in pvp.
@Iskiab I don't think you know what you are talking about. Spell damage also increases healing done (on magicka abilities, weapon damage on stamina).
2% healing done equals 129 spell damage at around 5000 spell damage on a character with 34900 max magicka.
Argonians have 6% healing done, Altmer gain 258 spell damage, so at 3333 spell damage Argonians benefit as much from their passive as Altmer in terms of only healing done. I don't know about you, but my healer operates with a max of 2000 spell damage when fully buffed - 2400 if I changed to Altmer. You usually benefit more from spell damage than from healing done, especially since spell damage improves your damage too.
Source for the math:
ZOS even recognized this when they doubled the amount of %healing done on every item set from 2% to 4%. However they forgot to look at Argonians when they changed that. In Wrathstone they calculated a budget for racial passives of 6.5 set boni. So in terms of power, what used to be counted as 3 item set boni is now just 1.5 item set boni by ZOS' own admission.
No matter how you twist and turn it. Argonians are underpowered in PvE as well as PvP. And that's not even taking overheal into account! The potion passive is good the way it is now and should definitely not be buffed, but the rest of what the Argonians have to offer is lacking compared to all the other races.
You are right about Khajiit not being as good in PvP though. Personally I don't like that ZOS shoehorns races into one or the other category. For example Bosmer have a passive that's completely useless in PvE.
You’re forgetting that not all heals scale with spell damage at all. Everything except some shields scale with healing done.
Like? I can't think of any that don't scale with either weapon or spell damage nowadays. The only one I know of is Green Dragon Blood and that's a self-only skill for tank. Weren't we talking about healers?
Because if we are talking about tanks, then Argonians can't offer the same group support that Nords and Imperials can and Imperials passively have even better sustain than Argonians spamming potions, while Nords got the better resistances as physical resistance also reduces disease damage.
It does not matter which department we are talking about, there is always a better option than Argonians. They need a buff.
every class has a health percentage based heal outside templars, i dont need to go through them. but sorc twilights and power surge dont scale with spell damage. siphoning strikes doesnt scale with spell damage. warden lotus flower doesnt scale with spell damage, neither does templar repentance. minor life steal doesnt wither, there are loads of ways to get that debuff. then there are all the proc healing sets, there are plenty of heals that dont scalew with spell damage, just because you "can't think of any" doesnt make there none.
0 -
Foxhearted✭✭✭More or less related, but I never understood why Argonian passives are so focused on healing. The only game they have a bonus in restoration is Skyrim, and even there Imperials have a bonus of 10, while Argonians share a bonus of 5 with two other races.
They always seemed more like rogue like characters, at least in main TES games.4 -
max_only✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MartiniDaniels wrote: »emilyhyoyeon wrote: »MartiniDaniels wrote: »emilyhyoyeon wrote: »Bumpity bump bump. Pretty please give a little bit of a pvp buff for Khajit.
Tried it and it’s a little too weak. It’s such a waste, Khajit are too cool to not have them be on par with other races.
Just had a thought. Since it’s mainly pvp where crit isn’t normally too high where they need a little help, what about more health or something for tankiness? Won’t effect pve.
One thing I dont understand is how Khajit didnt get the decrease of fall damage and wood elves got it. Whatever happened to cats always landing on their feet? Figured that meant they would be good at jumping and falling.
I'm assuming this is one of the times a khajiit feature doesn't take after normal cats, like their taste for sweets, instead of the features like their appearance that do take after normal cats. I would guess bosmer are naturally better at dealing with falling considering that they traditionally live in trees.
Like half my characters are khajiit and I'd be happier with a passive like increased damage/crit/something from stealth, or increased damage/crit/something from the back. Basically I'd prefer khajiit being a race focused more on their damage affinity rather than stealth, stealth suits bosmer more, especially if the devs are trying to keep 'unique passives' or whatever
Stealth radius can be exchanged only on stealth detection, not on damage
I honestly don't know what this sentence means
In terms of making unique passives that fit with lore and don't overlap between the races, bosmers could have stealth bonuses related to thievery and khajiit could have stealth bonuses related to assassination. The devs can exchange whatever current passives each race has with whatever they want if/when they redo them.
This sentence means that bonus damage from stealth in such unstable and de-synced game as ESO is already pretty high and no need to return bosmer/khajiit bonus to it. That was one of the changes which majority considered as very good one.
Where do you see people asking for the bonus damage to come back?
Detecting stealthed enemies is 100% useless in PVE and marginally useful in PVP for exactly one play style. Bonus damage should have been removed, yes, good, no one is talking about that for Bosmer. Now if Khajiit want that back on top of all the favoritism they got this year, that’s on them.#FiteForYourRite Bosmer = Stealth
#OppositeResourceSiphoningAttacks
|| CP 1000+ || PC/NA || GUILDS: LWH; IA; CH; XA
""All gods' creatures (you lot) are equal when covered in A1 sauce"" -- Old Bosmeri Wisdom4 -
FlowOne✭✭✭Foxhearted wrote: »More or less related, but I never understood why Argonian passives are so focused on healing. The only game they have a bonus in restoration is Skyrim, and even there Imperials have a bonus of 10, while Argonians share a bonus of 5 with two other races.
They always seemed more like rogue like characters, at least in main TES games.
And its sad, cuz in ESO this race only for mag, healers or tanks, but even for them its not the best race. Buff healing done and give extra 1k stam, will be fair enough.Edited by FlowOne on December 15, 2019 8:22PM2 -
waswar292✭✭I find it bizarre people are using the lore justification over this.
Only in Morrowind did racials matter, and it was exclusively over Bretons and High Elves being very important for magicka capacity for early-game Mages. For any other class, and for every game since Morrowind, race made a moderate difference in the early game, and no difference in the end-game.
Really, I don't see the problem in taking the Everquest 2 approach. For example, Dark Elves were reknown mages and assassins, so their first rank would increase mana or stamina. You could definitely do this in ESO, where races can pick between the stamina or magicka bonus, allowing them to operate without losing DPS. Since stamina is useful for tanking, it's doubly useful for letting people play the characters they want.4 -
Cundu_Ertur✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Foxhearted wrote: »More or less related, but I never understood why Argonian passives are so focused on healing. The only game they have a bonus in restoration is Skyrim, and even there Imperials have a bonus of 10, while Argonians share a bonus of 5 with two other races.
They always seemed more like rogue like characters, at least in main TES games.
Typically Argonians have been hybrid between thief and mage, with about an equal number of bonuses to each (if you include the ability bonuses). By contrast, Bosmer and Khajiit had almost all of their bonuses to thief skills. However, the Argonian magical strengths were in illusion and mysticism until mysticism disappeared in 4E, at which point restoration and alteration were the favored skills.
I suspect the dev team's 'reasearch' on racial lore involved glancing at the Skyrim racial bonuses for three nanoseconds.I find it bizarre people are using the lore justification over this.
Only in Morrowind did racials matter, and it was exclusively over Bretons and High Elves being very important for magicka capacity for early-game Mages. For any other class, and for every game since Morrowind, race made a moderate difference in the early game, and no difference in the end-game.
Really, I don't see the problem in taking the Everquest 2 approach. For example, Dark Elves were reknown mages and assassins, so their first rank would increase mana or stamina. You could definitely do this in ESO, where races can pick between the stamina or magicka bonus, allowing them to operate without losing DPS. Since stamina is useful for tanking, it's doubly useful for letting people play the characters they want.
I find it odd that you find it bizarre that people have an entirely reasonable expectation that a game with "Elder Scrolls" in its name should be at least somewhat compatible with the past 20+ years of lore.
And (as an aside not related to the quoted comment thread) as for Bosmer being BiS for stamina in PVP, why then are Bosmer ranked exactly equal to Altmer (that is to say, each has 0 votes) for PVPstamDK in THIS thread?Taking stealth away from the Bosmer is like taking magic away from the Altmer, making Nords allergic to mead, or making Orcs pretty.4 -
waswar292✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Foxhearted wrote: »More or less related, but I never understood why Argonian passives are so focused on healing. The only game they have a bonus in restoration is Skyrim, and even there Imperials have a bonus of 10, while Argonians share a bonus of 5 with two other races.
They always seemed more like rogue like characters, at least in main TES games.
Typically Argonians have been hybrid between thief and mage, with about an equal number of bonuses to each (if you include the ability bonuses). By contrast, Bosmer and Khajiit had almost all of their bonuses to thief skills. However, the Argonian magical strengths were in illusion and mysticism until mysticism disappeared in 4E, at which point restoration and alteration were the favored skills.
I suspect the dev team's 'reasearch' on racial lore involved glancing at the Skyrim racial bonuses for three nanoseconds.I find it bizarre people are using the lore justification over this.
Only in Morrowind did racials matter, and it was exclusively over Bretons and High Elves being very important for magicka capacity for early-game Mages. For any other class, and for every game since Morrowind, race made a moderate difference in the early game, and no difference in the end-game.
Really, I don't see the problem in taking the Everquest 2 approach. For example, Dark Elves were reknown mages and assassins, so their first rank would increase mana or stamina. You could definitely do this in ESO, where races can pick between the stamina or magicka bonus, allowing them to operate without losing DPS. Since stamina is useful for tanking, it's doubly useful for letting people play the characters they want.
I find it odd that you find it bizarre that people have an entirely reasonable expectation that a game with "Elder Scrolls" in its name should be at least somewhat compatible with the past 20+ years of lore.
And (as an aside not related to the quoted comment thread) as for Bosmer being BiS for stamina in PVP, why then are Bosmer ranked exactly equal to Altmer (that is to say, each has 0 votes) for PVPstamDK in THIS thread?
Because, in spite of the lore, they made the races have roughly equal impact in previous games: Through skill advances, resistances, and powers.
The lore does not equate to some races being greatly useless at certain roles.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Grianasteri wrote: »Yes, server performance should be priority but these racial passives should be updated.
Elemental Talent
Rank III - Unlocked at Altmer (High Elf) 50
Increases your Spell Damage by 258
This should also increase Weapon Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Orsimer (Orc) 50
Increases your weapon damage by 258
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 12% and increases the Movement Speed bonus of Sprint by 10%
This should also increase Spell Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Breton 50
Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%
This should reduce the cost of both magicka and stamina abilities by 7%
There are orc shamans in game and a orc holding a staff in ESO related artwork. There is a high elf getting knocked off a cliff using a sword in the Summerset cinematic and High Kinlord Rilis uses a two-handed sword. The Breton assassin in the cinematic who rerolled necromancer never seems to have sustain problems with stamina or magicka. Fits the lore and will make these races more viable in other departments and isn't game breaking. The rest of the races are fine.
Thanks for reading! Feel free to comment.
No, I totally disagree. Races need to have specific reasons to use them, specific traits that the race excels in, specific identities. We do not need every race to be the same or what is the point in the race at all.
You may well get your wish though, since ZOS seem intent in making every class and race able to do every role.
Class and race identity must be maintained.
.
I totally disagree. Combat performance shouldn't be tied to appearance, as that severely limits character customization, which is an important aspect of an RPG. That's why systems like transmutation and hide helmet exist.
Races should have flavour, but that flavour can be disassociated with combat ability. For example, Argonian's swimming ability, Khajiit's/Bosmer's reduced detection radius, etc.
Want to play a mage in ESO right now? You have 4 options: Breton, Altmer, Dunmer, or Khajiit. That's 6 races you can't use. There is nothing in the lore stating those races can't be potent mages (one of the most powerful mages you meet is a Nord, you meet an Orc and Redguard in the Psijic Order, and so on).Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 16, 2019 1:38AM4 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Foxhearted wrote: »More or less related, but I never understood why Argonian passives are so focused on healing. The only game they have a bonus in restoration is Skyrim, and even there Imperials have a bonus of 10, while Argonians share a bonus of 5 with two other races.
They always seemed more like rogue like characters, at least in main TES games.
Typically Argonians have been hybrid between thief and mage, with about an equal number of bonuses to each (if you include the ability bonuses). By contrast, Bosmer and Khajiit had almost all of their bonuses to thief skills. However, the Argonian magical strengths were in illusion and mysticism until mysticism disappeared in 4E, at which point restoration and alteration were the favored skills.
I suspect the dev team's 'reasearch' on racial lore involved glancing at the Skyrim racial bonuses for three nanoseconds.I find it bizarre people are using the lore justification over this.
Only in Morrowind did racials matter, and it was exclusively over Bretons and High Elves being very important for magicka capacity for early-game Mages. For any other class, and for every game since Morrowind, race made a moderate difference in the early game, and no difference in the end-game.
Really, I don't see the problem in taking the Everquest 2 approach. For example, Dark Elves were reknown mages and assassins, so their first rank would increase mana or stamina. You could definitely do this in ESO, where races can pick between the stamina or magicka bonus, allowing them to operate without losing DPS. Since stamina is useful for tanking, it's doubly useful for letting people play the characters they want.
I find it odd that you find it bizarre that people have an entirely reasonable expectation that a game with "Elder Scrolls" in its name should be at least somewhat compatible with the past 20+ years of lore.
And (as an aside not related to the quoted comment thread) as for Bosmer being BiS for stamina in PVP, why then are Bosmer ranked exactly equal to Altmer (that is to say, each has 0 votes) for PVPstamDK in THIS thread?
Because, in spite of the lore, they made the races have roughly equal impact in previous games: Through skill advances, resistances, and powers.
The lore does not equate to some races being greatly useless at certain roles.
It's because in single player games, you want to keep every playstyle open to any character at all times. In multiplayer games, I feel that the need to distinguish yourself from other players is greater than the desire to be able to switch your playstyle any time you want to anything you want. It would be quite the boring game if every character could be great at everything simultaneously the same way the single player games handled it.
That's why ESO's racial passives are so different to the single player ones I think.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Foxhearted wrote: »More or less related, but I never understood why Argonian passives are so focused on healing. The only game they have a bonus in restoration is Skyrim, and even there Imperials have a bonus of 10, while Argonians share a bonus of 5 with two other races.
They always seemed more like rogue like characters, at least in main TES games.
Typically Argonians have been hybrid between thief and mage, with about an equal number of bonuses to each (if you include the ability bonuses). By contrast, Bosmer and Khajiit had almost all of their bonuses to thief skills. However, the Argonian magical strengths were in illusion and mysticism until mysticism disappeared in 4E, at which point restoration and alteration were the favored skills.
I suspect the dev team's 'reasearch' on racial lore involved glancing at the Skyrim racial bonuses for three nanoseconds.I find it bizarre people are using the lore justification over this.
Only in Morrowind did racials matter, and it was exclusively over Bretons and High Elves being very important for magicka capacity for early-game Mages. For any other class, and for every game since Morrowind, race made a moderate difference in the early game, and no difference in the end-game.
Really, I don't see the problem in taking the Everquest 2 approach. For example, Dark Elves were reknown mages and assassins, so their first rank would increase mana or stamina. You could definitely do this in ESO, where races can pick between the stamina or magicka bonus, allowing them to operate without losing DPS. Since stamina is useful for tanking, it's doubly useful for letting people play the characters they want.
I find it odd that you find it bizarre that people have an entirely reasonable expectation that a game with "Elder Scrolls" in its name should be at least somewhat compatible with the past 20+ years of lore.
And (as an aside not related to the quoted comment thread) as for Bosmer being BiS for stamina in PVP, why then are Bosmer ranked exactly equal to Altmer (that is to say, each has 0 votes) for PVPstamDK in THIS thread?
Because, in spite of the lore, they made the races have roughly equal impact in previous games: Through skill advances, resistances, and powers.
The lore does not equate to some races being greatly useless at certain roles.
It's because in single player games, you want to keep every playstyle open to any character at all times. In multiplayer games, I feel that the need to distinguish yourself from other players is greater than the desire to be able to switch your playstyle any time you want to anything you want. It would be quite the boring game if every character could be great at everything simultaneously the same way the single player games handled it.
That's why ESO's racial passives are so different to the single player ones I think.
The current system is what's boring. Everyone is the same race because certain races are better than others.
You see very little racial variety, especially in endgame groups.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 16, 2019 3:23AM6 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Grianasteri wrote: »Yes, server performance should be priority but these racial passives should be updated.
Elemental Talent
Rank III - Unlocked at Altmer (High Elf) 50
Increases your Spell Damage by 258
This should also increase Weapon Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Orsimer (Orc) 50
Increases your weapon damage by 258
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 12% and increases the Movement Speed bonus of Sprint by 10%
This should also increase Spell Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Breton 50
Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%
This should reduce the cost of both magicka and stamina abilities by 7%
There are orc shamans in game and a orc holding a staff in ESO related artwork. There is a high elf getting knocked off a cliff using a sword in the Summerset cinematic and High Kinlord Rilis uses a two-handed sword. The Breton assassin in the cinematic who rerolled necromancer never seems to have sustain problems with stamina or magicka. Fits the lore and will make these races more viable in other departments and isn't game breaking. The rest of the races are fine.
Thanks for reading! Feel free to comment.
No, I totally disagree. Races need to have specific reasons to use them, specific traits that the race excels in, specific identities. We do not need every race to be the same or what is the point in the race at all.
You may well get your wish though, since ZOS seem intent in making every class and race able to do every role.
Class and race identity must be maintained.
.
I totally disagree. Combat performance shouldn't be tied to appearance, as that severely limits character customization, which is an important aspect of an RPG. That's why systems like transmutation and hide helmet exist.
Races should have flavour, but that flavour can be disassociated with combat ability. For example, Argonian's swimming ability, Khajiit's/Bosmer's reduced detection radius, etc.
Want to play a mage in ESO right now? You have 4 options: Breton, Altmer, Dunmer, or Khajiit. That's 6 races you can't use. There is nothing in the lore stating those races can't be potent mages (one of the most powerful mages you meet is a Nord, you meet an Orc and Redguard in the Psijic Order, and so on).
I think that's a bit disingenuous of you.
Want to play a mage in ESO? Feel free to pick whatever you like.
Want to play a mage and get on the leaderboard? Then you have 4 choices instead of 10.
People keep confusing exceptions with the rules. Shalidor has cold resistance like any other Nord and if he was a Highelf he would have achieved the same feats and fame faster (not to mention that he would have lived longer to do even more crazy magic). Or perhaps he wouldn't because he wouldn't be all that special among fellow Altmer.
Racials passives are innate to every member (or a majority) of that race. Of course not every individual is the same as the rest. It's not a "planet of hats" and it shouldn't be either. The more freedom the system allows the better, but not at the cost of the world building and the uniqueness of each race.
Allowing different races to be more effective at their speciality than others makes the games choices feel more meaningful, brings the world to life, and creates diversity among the player characters. Otherwise everyone would be a Breton, Highelf or Darkelf because those look the best.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Foxhearted wrote: »More or less related, but I never understood why Argonian passives are so focused on healing. The only game they have a bonus in restoration is Skyrim, and even there Imperials have a bonus of 10, while Argonians share a bonus of 5 with two other races.
They always seemed more like rogue like characters, at least in main TES games.
Typically Argonians have been hybrid between thief and mage, with about an equal number of bonuses to each (if you include the ability bonuses). By contrast, Bosmer and Khajiit had almost all of their bonuses to thief skills. However, the Argonian magical strengths were in illusion and mysticism until mysticism disappeared in 4E, at which point restoration and alteration were the favored skills.
I suspect the dev team's 'reasearch' on racial lore involved glancing at the Skyrim racial bonuses for three nanoseconds.I find it bizarre people are using the lore justification over this.
Only in Morrowind did racials matter, and it was exclusively over Bretons and High Elves being very important for magicka capacity for early-game Mages. For any other class, and for every game since Morrowind, race made a moderate difference in the early game, and no difference in the end-game.
Really, I don't see the problem in taking the Everquest 2 approach. For example, Dark Elves were reknown mages and assassins, so their first rank would increase mana or stamina. You could definitely do this in ESO, where races can pick between the stamina or magicka bonus, allowing them to operate without losing DPS. Since stamina is useful for tanking, it's doubly useful for letting people play the characters they want.
I find it odd that you find it bizarre that people have an entirely reasonable expectation that a game with "Elder Scrolls" in its name should be at least somewhat compatible with the past 20+ years of lore.
And (as an aside not related to the quoted comment thread) as for Bosmer being BiS for stamina in PVP, why then are Bosmer ranked exactly equal to Altmer (that is to say, each has 0 votes) for PVPstamDK in THIS thread?
Because, in spite of the lore, they made the races have roughly equal impact in previous games: Through skill advances, resistances, and powers.
The lore does not equate to some races being greatly useless at certain roles.
It's because in single player games, you want to keep every playstyle open to any character at all times. In multiplayer games, I feel that the need to distinguish yourself from other players is greater than the desire to be able to switch your playstyle any time you want to anything you want. It would be quite the boring game if every character could be great at everything simultaneously the same way the single player games handled it.
That's why ESO's racial passives are so different to the single player ones I think.
The current system is what's boring. Everyone is the same race because certain races are better than others.
You see very little racial variety, especially in endgame groups.
Funny. And here I thought the game would see even less racial variety because only three races actually look good while more than three are good in the meta.
You think all the people who just happened to create the same Altmer woman as everyone else would make characters of other races if they could make an Altmer for everything instead?
And "boring" would be removing that depth from the game or taking the flavor away and have it be "choose your destiny" in character creation.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Grianasteri wrote: »Yes, server performance should be priority but these racial passives should be updated.
Elemental Talent
Rank III - Unlocked at Altmer (High Elf) 50
Increases your Spell Damage by 258
This should also increase Weapon Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Orsimer (Orc) 50
Increases your weapon damage by 258
Reduces the cost of Sprint by 12% and increases the Movement Speed bonus of Sprint by 10%
This should also increase Spell Damage by 258
Rank III - Unlocked at Breton 50
Reduces the Magicka cost of your abilities by 7%
This should reduce the cost of both magicka and stamina abilities by 7%
There are orc shamans in game and a orc holding a staff in ESO related artwork. There is a high elf getting knocked off a cliff using a sword in the Summerset cinematic and High Kinlord Rilis uses a two-handed sword. The Breton assassin in the cinematic who rerolled necromancer never seems to have sustain problems with stamina or magicka. Fits the lore and will make these races more viable in other departments and isn't game breaking. The rest of the races are fine.
Thanks for reading! Feel free to comment.
No, I totally disagree. Races need to have specific reasons to use them, specific traits that the race excels in, specific identities. We do not need every race to be the same or what is the point in the race at all.
You may well get your wish though, since ZOS seem intent in making every class and race able to do every role.
Class and race identity must be maintained.
.
I totally disagree. Combat performance shouldn't be tied to appearance, as that severely limits character customization, which is an important aspect of an RPG. That's why systems like transmutation and hide helmet exist.
Races should have flavour, but that flavour can be disassociated with combat ability. For example, Argonian's swimming ability, Khajiit's/Bosmer's reduced detection radius, etc.
Want to play a mage in ESO right now? You have 4 options: Breton, Altmer, Dunmer, or Khajiit. That's 6 races you can't use. There is nothing in the lore stating those races can't be potent mages (one of the most powerful mages you meet is a Nord, you meet an Orc and Redguard in the Psijic Order, and so on).
I think that's a bit disingenuous of you.
Want to play a mage in ESO? Feel free to pick whatever you like.
Want to play a mage and get on the leaderboard? Then you have 4 choices instead of 10.
People keep confusing exceptions with the rules. Shalidor has cold resistance like any other Nord and if he was a Highelf he would have achieved the same feats and fame faster (not to mention that he would have lived longer to do even more crazy magic). Or perhaps he wouldn't because he wouldn't be all that special among fellow Altmer.
Racials passives are innate to every member (or a majority) of that race. Of course not every individual is the same as the rest. It's not a "planet of hats" and it shouldn't be either. The more freedom the system allows the better, but not at the cost of the world building and the uniqueness of each race.
Allowing different races to be more effective at their speciality than others makes the games choices feel more meaningful, brings the world to life, and creates diversity among the player characters. Otherwise everyone would be a Breton, Highelf or Darkelf because those look the best.
Race doesn't matter nearly as much in the single player games, which are the benchmark for the series' lore. The system in ESO is the aberration.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 16, 2019 3:43AM5 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »Cundu_Ertur wrote: »Foxhearted wrote: »More or less related, but I never understood why Argonian passives are so focused on healing. The only game they have a bonus in restoration is Skyrim, and even there Imperials have a bonus of 10, while Argonians share a bonus of 5 with two other races.
They always seemed more like rogue like characters, at least in main TES games.
Typically Argonians have been hybrid between thief and mage, with about an equal number of bonuses to each (if you include the ability bonuses). By contrast, Bosmer and Khajiit had almost all of their bonuses to thief skills. However, the Argonian magical strengths were in illusion and mysticism until mysticism disappeared in 4E, at which point restoration and alteration were the favored skills.
I suspect the dev team's 'reasearch' on racial lore involved glancing at the Skyrim racial bonuses for three nanoseconds.I find it bizarre people are using the lore justification over this.
Only in Morrowind did racials matter, and it was exclusively over Bretons and High Elves being very important for magicka capacity for early-game Mages. For any other class, and for every game since Morrowind, race made a moderate difference in the early game, and no difference in the end-game.
Really, I don't see the problem in taking the Everquest 2 approach. For example, Dark Elves were reknown mages and assassins, so their first rank would increase mana or stamina. You could definitely do this in ESO, where races can pick between the stamina or magicka bonus, allowing them to operate without losing DPS. Since stamina is useful for tanking, it's doubly useful for letting people play the characters they want.
I find it odd that you find it bizarre that people have an entirely reasonable expectation that a game with "Elder Scrolls" in its name should be at least somewhat compatible with the past 20+ years of lore.
And (as an aside not related to the quoted comment thread) as for Bosmer being BiS for stamina in PVP, why then are Bosmer ranked exactly equal to Altmer (that is to say, each has 0 votes) for PVPstamDK in THIS thread?
Because, in spite of the lore, they made the races have roughly equal impact in previous games: Through skill advances, resistances, and powers.
The lore does not equate to some races being greatly useless at certain roles.
It's because in single player games, you want to keep every playstyle open to any character at all times. In multiplayer games, I feel that the need to distinguish yourself from other players is greater than the desire to be able to switch your playstyle any time you want to anything you want. It would be quite the boring game if every character could be great at everything simultaneously the same way the single player games handled it.
That's why ESO's racial passives are so different to the single player ones I think.
The current system is what's boring. Everyone is the same race because certain races are better than others.
You see very little racial variety, especially in endgame groups.
Funny. And here I thought the game would see even less racial variety because only three races actually look good while more than three are good in the meta.
You think all the people who just happened to create the same Altmer woman as everyone else would make characters of other races if they could make an Altmer for everything instead?
And "boring" would be removing that depth from the game or taking the flavor away and have it be "choose your destiny" in character creation.
Racial passives don't give the game depth. You just pick whatever is the best race for what role you want to play.Edited by MLGProPlayer on December 16, 2019 3:39AM3 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OG_Kaveman wrote: »
Like? I can't think of any that don't scale with either weapon or spell damage nowadays. The only one I know of is Green Dragon Blood and that's a self-only skill for tank. Weren't we talking about healers?
Because if we are talking about tanks, then Argonians can't offer the same group support that Nords and Imperials can and Imperials passively have even better sustain than Argonians spamming potions, while Nords got the better resistances as physical resistance also reduces disease damage.
It does not matter which department we are talking about, there is always a better option than Argonians. They need a buff.
every class has a health percentage based heal outside templars, i dont need to go through them. but sorc twilights and power surge dont scale with spell damage. siphoning strikes doesnt scale with spell damage. warden lotus flower doesnt scale with spell damage, neither does templar repentance. minor life steal doesnt wither, there are loads of ways to get that debuff. then there are all the proc healing sets, there are plenty of heals that dont scalew with spell damage, just because you "can't think of any" doesnt make there none.
Thanks for pointing out some. I never suggested that there truly are none.
But Healing done remains a bad stat, because it has a fairly low impact over all compared to damage, sustain or resistances.
If you are missing 4000health and have a 1000 health heal, 6% will make that only 1060 healting but you still need to cast the spell 4 times at the same magicka cost before you are full health. You don't get the 240 healing saved for the next incoming damage, you don't get your mana cost back. 6% increased healing done won't result in 6% less healing spells needed where as reduced magicka cost will make it as if 6% of your spells had no cost at all, which is always useful.
With damage the same phenomenon dictates which of two zerg will win a PvP fight if they focus differently, but it doesn't affect the individual player's effectiveness.
Resistances do have this issue too, but only at 33k resistances which is quite a lot and not that easy to get and still have potential for more stats.
Currently, for Argonians' healing done to matter to healers, it needs to be buffed so that it can compare to what Altmer, Dunmer and Bretons are getting.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
Nemesis7884✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭i think the passives are mostly fine...primarily you should look at bosmer and argonian again and secondarily at orc3 -
Ratzkifal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭MLGProPlayer wrote: »I think that's a bit disingenuous of you.
Want to play a mage in ESO? Feel free to pick whatever you like.
Want to play a mage and get on the leaderboard? Then you have 4 choices instead of 10.
People keep confusing exceptions with the rules. Shalidor has cold resistance like any other Nord and if he was a Highelf he would have achieved the same feats and fame faster (not to mention that he would have lived longer to do even more crazy magic). Or perhaps he wouldn't because he wouldn't be all that special among fellow Altmer.
Racials passives are innate to every member (or a majority) of that race. Of course not every individual is the same as the rest. It's not a "planet of hats" and it shouldn't be either. The more freedom the system allows the better, but not at the cost of the world building and the uniqueness of each race.
Allowing different races to be more effective at their speciality than others makes the games choices feel more meaningful, brings the world to life, and creates diversity among the player characters. Otherwise everyone would be a Breton, Highelf or Darkelf because those look the best.
Race doesn't matter nearly as much in the single player games, which are the benchmark for the series' lore. The system in ESO is the aberration.MLGProPlayer wrote: »
Funny. And here I thought the game would see even less racial variety because only three races actually look good while more than three are good in the meta.
You think all the people who just happened to create the same Altmer woman as everyone else would make characters of other races if they could make an Altmer for everything instead?
And "boring" would be removing that depth from the game or taking the flavor away and have it be "choose your destiny" in character creation.
Racial passives don't give the game depth. You just pick whatever is the best race for what role you want to play.
Like I said before, ESO is an MMO, not a single player game. It has to serve different needs than the single player games do.
In an MMO, characters should feel different from one another so that nobody plays exactly the same.
That's also why we don't have a magic system where there is only three master level spells, otherwise at the end of the game everyone would play an identical character to everyone else, just like in Skyrim when all your skills are at 100.
It's a good thing that the races in ESO matter as it increases the replayability of the same class, because of the depth of the system. Whatever is best, heavily depends on "what you want to play", which is a very subjective thing.
You can play a Stamblade and only use weapon abilities, in which case a Redguard might be ideal for you or you go for 100% crit chance in which case Khajiit is your best pick. Both characters will feel very different from one another and allow people to have fun playing in a different way. It's really only when you try to get into serious hardcore hardmode achievement hunting that it boils down to the most effective tactic(s) available.
Oh and, no I don't pick whatever race is best for what role I want to play. I pick the race that fits thematically the most to what I want and because the racial passives are based in lore, this often aligns with the most effective one, but not always. Like when I picked a Bosmer for my Bow/Bow Stamden back when Redguard was the only "correct" choice.This Bosmer was tortured to death. There is nothing left to be done.1 -
Deathlord92✭✭✭✭✭
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Agreed.I find it bizarre people are using the lore justification over this.
Only in Morrowind did racials matter, and it was exclusively over Bretons and High Elves being very important for magicka capacity for early-game Mages. For any other class, and for every game since Morrowind, race made a moderate difference in the early game, and no difference in the end-game.
Really, I don't see the problem in taking the Everquest 2 approach. For example, Dark Elves were reknown mages and assassins, so their first rank would increase mana or stamina. You could definitely do this in ESO, where races can pick between the stamina or magicka bonus, allowing them to operate without losing DPS. Since stamina is useful for tanking, it's doubly useful for letting people play the characters they want.
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