universal_wrath wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

universal_wrath wrote: »

Royalthought wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Vlad9425 wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

BohnT2 wrote: »

For anyone complaining about stamnb not being a viable class i advise taking a look into this thread.
Almost any single problem mentioned in this post could be solved by getting better at the game or accepting the strengths of Stamnbs

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/499072/patch-5-2-5-pvp-tierlist/p1

Ahh its a l2p issue.

Then I may as well give up then. After playing nb successfully for 6 years its obviously now working as intended and I am the problem.

Have you checked what the linked post is about?
For stamnb there's no excuse to say it's weak in solo play other than admitting that oneself isn't able to perform well on it.

The class isn’t weak but there’s this huge misconception on these forums that it’s some kind of god tier class which is just amazing at everything. The reality is that you have to be both exceptionally skilled and at times just plain lucky to hit the right combos to kill people quickly. When going up against experienced players who actually know what they’re doing you can feel the nerfs of the class plain as day. There’s a reason StamNB is one of the least played classes in the game now and it’s because it’s just not enjoyable to play like it used to be before half of it’s kit got removed.

The reason it's one of the least played class right now is because it has a HIGH skill ceiling. It takes a lot to master the class, just like uh... everything else? There's always to be that one class that people flock to when its strong. Only the people who took time to be good at their class will prevail.

You say nb takes a lot to master just like everything else yet I hardly see people on nb only players I see on nb are ez ap for me. When I go in cyrodiil all I see mainly are dks and templars and a fair few wardens.

That’s because the class has mechanical issues. It needs work on functionality. Players experience this and drop the class for more function on others.
Nightblades are discussed as if they simply had damage nerfs. Actually their functionality was hit very hard.

For example:

Major fracture: To apply it before, SA. Now, mark target - Alerts the enemy to defend and if you mark a 2nd target you grant a free purge to the 1st.
That results in mark being a clumsy mess vs a group/Zerg. Much easier to tap 1 button on Dk/warden and apply it to an entire group and do damage. Being free doesn’t fix that.

Many Nightblade abilities suffered functional nerfs.

Requesting specific changes like major expedition on cripple instead of path. Major fracture on SA instead of MT. etc. are much easier to discuss. Why? These type of fixes won’t increase damage.

When simply asking for a “buff” to a class, the same players who campaigned for the nerfs return to argue ”buffs make it OP. Too much damage.” They’re a dedicated bunch. Plenty cases in point here.

Too focused on nerfed. It is true that SA had its fracture taken and even when it was present, you never see a nightblade running around in group play SA everyone to give major fracture to his teamate, same with MT now. If you could mark everyone, you can arguebale have infinte major berserk each time someone dies, and you almost never have to refresh because it is 30 secs. Ambush is aoe minor vunirability, good for group plays. Major expedition on path is for group play. Fear while it is nerfed, it still for group play. Healing ulti and much more. Try adjusting skills as you can't have everything at the same time as you have to make sacrifices, except if you are a warden.

Where did I mention anything about marking everyone?? The issue is switching targets with mark vs SA. You’re literally talking about group play. it’s unanimously agreed upon Nightblades are the worst for it. So to attempt to justify making the class worse at what its designed for by not making it better what at it’s awful for is a horrible approach.

More importantly, I spoke specifically about the nightblade facing a group. 1vX. You’re talking about group play, ambush, healing groups and fear. < nothing to do with what I mentioned.

You say I’m too focused on nerfed, huh? Perhaps we should both focus on the specific mechanics mentioned. Saying things like “you can’t have everything” is baseless. Especially when talking about completely different things.

Lota if nightblades 1 v x without any problems. You don't need major fracture to kill someone, it only makes it easier. I do agree that mark alarms people qnd notify them that they are being targetd, but that is only fair against someone you can't see. Why do I have hold block while going from keep to keep just because there is a mere chance that a nightblade could be lying around and I don't know about. Mark target is fair play against sneaky nightblades, you can thino of it as a downside if you are playing stealth. In 1vx and 1v1 situation, stamsorc, stamplars, and other classes kill eithout major fracture. Stamsorc have worst burst combo in the game and can still kill and 1vx without fracture. I do agree that warden and stam dka have it easy, and I alway with that all classes have access to major fracture/breach debuff. Also, while ambush is aoe minor vonuriability, it still apolies to 1 target and gives empower. Healing ulti is paet of your survivability kit, strongest healing ulti im the game that can save you in 1vx where tou get bounded by lots of dmg. If you want to effectively 1vx, swap shadowy disguise to dark cloak. Shadowy diaguise let you make mistakes and so kills you because you rely on it too much. Nightblade is very solid class in pvp. The more you let go lf shadowy disguise, the higher its skill cieling and more rewarding. I should not that for some reason, stamblade is better at 1v1 than 1vx and magblade is the opposite. Not sure why? I still believe that you can't have eveeything on your build with makeing sacrifices, otherwise, people will ask for nerfs because your class/build will be oo as heal. Much like magaorc 4 patches ago, dk 2-3 patches ago and stamden now.

Marcus684 wrote: »

I just have to lol at people who post here claiming that NBs are the “rogue” assassin-like class like they play in every other game, that’s supposed to kill other (usually unaware) players more quickly (easily) than other classes, and that they’re sad because they can’t do that here anymore. If that’s what you want, go play that rogue in other games. If that was true in ESO, everyone who wants easy kills and hates dying would play an NB (and historically has). ZOS has made it clear they want some semblance of balance between classes in PvP, with no class having a clear advantage over the others. If you’re not having as much fun on your NB because you can’t get as many easy kills, and cloak away when you bite off more than you can chew, maybe it’s time to finally git gud, rather than relying your (formerly) overtuned class.

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Well news flash if you wanna be a casual gamer then Nb isn’t for you.

We can end the discussion here buddy.

Why? where does it say anywhere that NB is only for pro players?

Please explain your reasoning because your anti nb bias is getting tired buddy

How about this buddy:

"NB is supposed to be only for casual players so its not working as intended so it needs fixing.. Why? Because I said so and I know these things".

See how pointless and inaccurate that statement is buddy?

NB is like every other class, it is for everyone. If it is at a point, like you say buddy that it can only be played successfully by very good players then there is clearly something wrong.

Iskiab wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Sorry OP but when You start Your post from saying You were playing stamina nb exclusively You loose lot of credibility.

Why?

Grass is always greener on the other side. People who don’t play other classes don’t have a good idea about what their own class is good at.

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

I would somewhat agree with the other guy. Issue is moreso light attack weaving is integral to the class.

Everyone struggles with light attack weaving when they start. A class that requires light attack weaving to be as strong as other classes, leeching and merciless, just isn’t new player (or lag) friendly.

Tbh never found weaving too difficult.

Current meta is indeed very fiddly. To get that off balance from SA it has to be from stealth without light weave followed by heavy > incap > weave > spectral - etc. fiddlesome

It also means that the solo gank style, a distance away from allies is impaired. Maybe great for the qq brigade in other classes, but sucky sucky for us stealth people.

So if NB is now a class that is not accessible to all players then it is broken. Play as you like isn't happening. It doesn't mean everyone should excel but everyone should be able to play it.

An average player should be able to compete on fairly equal terms with another average player, taking into account the paper / scissor / stone of class uniqueness.

Decimus wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

I don't know what you're all on about, I feel borderline op on my melee stamblade right now.

Could NB be more fun/have more depth to it? Sure.

But there's no denying nothing rivals NB survivability/single target burst*, and that's fine - the "everything must be equal in everything" mentality has done enough harm already.

*Yes, other classes can line up more burst - on a stationary target dummy. The ease of dropping burst combos from cloak is on a whole another level to trying to time multiple abilities to land together & hoping none of it gets blocked/dodged.


So I'm fine with how things are right now (except maybe Incap cast time - that still doesn't feel right).

If I want to play a single target assassin I log my stamblade, if I want an AoE monster I log my stam sorc. Makes sense.


Last thing I'd want is to play some overpowered carry class because people asked for buffs on something that doesn't necessarily need buffs.

I stopped taking you seriously when you said nothing rivals nb survivability lmfao fight a good magplar and then come back here we will see how much cloak helps you survive looool 😂

I run 3 Swift+Steed & Elude so magplars are hardly a problem... if you're having problems with magplars I'd suggest increasing your movement speed so you can quickly get out of sweep range & cloak safely.

Alternative to that would be always having Shadow Image down, though I personally prefer just getting high movement speed & using the skill slot for something else (high movement speed works better with the "no gap closer" playstyle anyway).

Marcus684 wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

Sorry OP but when You start Your post from saying You were playing stamina nb exclusively You loose lot of credibility.

Why?

The forums are full of biased players that always want their favorite class buffed and all others nerfed, with no thought for fairness or balance. Starting off by saying you only play one class, and then asking for buffs, makes you appear like one of these biased class advocates.

hakan wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Decimus wrote: »

I don't know what you're all on about, I feel borderline op on my melee stamblade right now.

Could NB be more fun/have more depth to it? Sure.

But there's no denying nothing rivals NB survivability/single target burst*, and that's fine - the "everything must be equal in everything" mentality has done enough harm already.

*Yes, other classes can line up more burst - on a stationary target dummy. The ease of dropping burst combos from cloak is on a whole another level to trying to time multiple abilities to land together & hoping none of it gets blocked/dodged.


So I'm fine with how things are right now (except maybe Incap cast time - that still doesn't feel right).

If I want to play a single target assassin I log my stamblade, if I want an AoE monster I log my stam sorc. Makes sense.


Last thing I'd want is to play some overpowered carry class because people asked for buffs on something that doesn't necessarily need buffs.

I stopped taking you seriously when you said nothing rivals nb survivability lmfao fight a good magplar and then come back here we will see how much cloak helps you survive looool 😂

I run 3 Swift+Steed & Elude so magplars are hardly a problem... if you're having problems with magplars I'd suggest increasing your movement speed so you can quickly get out of sweep range & cloak safely.

Alternative to that would be always having Shadow Image down, though I personally prefer just getting high movement speed & using the skill slot for something else (high movement speed works better with the "no gap closer" playstyle anyway).

ill ask. do you need ambush with that move speed?

Shadowasrial wrote: »

First off I have played a stamina nightblade exclusively since the launch of this game. I have no interest in playing a different class. I have adapted to every patch and normally I say it’s a learn to play issue. But now our nerfs have just made us virtually unable to compete in today’s pvp meta.

First off let’s describe the concept of the nightblade. It’s a stealthy rogue/mage that uses the power of the shadows to attack its targets. That means that it’s not the kind of class that had running around in clunky heavy armor wielding a battle ax screaming into battle. It was meant to be a strategic striker. Meaning you chose your target you attack swiftly and get out. It wasn’t meant for 1v X in the same way that a dk or a Templar can 1 v x it requires a lot of strategy to split up your opponents and get them by themselves.

Now in today’s heavy dot meta pvp is full of large groups. And let’s face it ganking is not much of a thing today. The forums are full of people saying that they hardly see nbs running around and the few that are, are the ones like me who refuse to give up. Because we love the class. However now the class isn’t all that fun to play now that it’s identy has been stripped and a new identity has been thrust down our throats.

So many people have cried that one nb was able to burst them down and to be honest that’s what it’s intended to do. If you were with friends more than likely you were fine. The combined buffs and aoes and heals your friends contributed made a nb gank much more likely to fail. And if that nb managed to split you all up and kill 3-4 of you more than likely that was due to them being skilled and you and your group making a strategic error not to stay together.

Now we have among the weakest class skills in the game. Some of which don’t even make sense to the class
•incap- removed the stun and major defile and replaced with a silence that has virtually no impact in combat and many nbs choose not to wait that long to get 120 ulti - this skill has one of the shortest ranges at 5 meters is dodgeable, blockable, misses often and is single target. Which means it was meant to have extreme effect on the one target you fight again. Nothing was more satisfying than when your incap landed and you saw your target get knocked flat on the ground. This skill made it so when used a target had to quickly react to not get bursted down. Now however most classes can shrug it off no big deal. There are other class ultimates that do considerably more damage and have greater impact than this single target ulti. Dragon leap undodgable unblockable does insane damage and knocks back. Templar crescent sweep is an aoe does 60% more damage to everyone hit and is instant cast and has a dot meaning it’s virtually undodgable due to its 8 meter range. Warden has that blizzard skill again a large damaging aoe that is virtually undodgable and stuns the target, sorc has overload which I will admit needs a rework due to how easy it is to dodge but they have other skills that make them op with shields and how easy it is to mitigate damage

Next we have surprise attack- again a skill that had great spammable potential. Stunned from stealth and applied major fracture to your target. This skill was single target and again limited range. This spammable requires both the magic and stam nb to be up close in a targets face which to mag class is not recommended. Now this skill no longer applies major fracture which was great against the heavy armor meta and is instead gifted the terrible 5% armor reduction if attacking from a flanking position. Which at most means that if your fighting a target with 30k armor your only removing 1500 of that armor. And even less if they are running around 15k and 20-25k making this spammable not very impactful. Compared again to Templar’s jabs which again do huge damage, was a dot direct damage hybrid which is now going to be instead buffed by the other direct damage buffs making it stronger, it slows the target has a huge range and cone of effect making dodging very difficult
All other class spammable sad far as dk whip warden cliff racer sorcs frags and necros blast bones all have far more impact and range than the nbs single target spammable.

I could go further and complain about the nerfs to relentless and how it’s removal of minor berserk and minor endurance being replaced with damage mitigation or how our gap closer no longer stuns or is even reliable seeing as half the time I have to recast the skill 3-4 times before I actually teleport to my target. (Minor vulnerability is however a welcome buff.)

At the end of the day every other class has much more effective ultimates, spammables, gap closers and buffs than nb and nbs have also suffered ninja nerfs due to the global nerfs to bonus damage from stealth crit resistance negating most of our stealth attacks which only hit harder because of stealth and the fact that our cloak is broken by sooo many skills. Nb has so many useless skills that many don’t even use from the siphoning tree or shadow tree as there are other faction skills that are more effective versions of our class skills that all other classes have access too.

^